Dell has announced that more of their systems will be available with Linux pre-installed: “It’s exciting to see the IdeaStorm community’s interest in open source solutions like Linux and OpenOffice. We are listening, and as a result, we are working with Novell to certify our corporate client products for Linux, including our OptiPlex desktops, Latitude notebooks and Dell Precision workstations. This is another step towards ensuring that our customers have a good experience with Linux on our systems.” In addition: ” Dell recognizes our customers’ desire to have unlimited control over the software on their PC. In fact, today XPS customers can opt-out of almost all preinstalled software. We will be expanding this effort in the coming months.”
Dell needs to install eg. (REDHAT RHEL4 WS, SLED, UBUNTU) they would find they would sell quite a few machines pre-configured and loaded going this route.
I find it amazing how they still leave this a hole in the wall area of their website.
And lastly Marketing advertise this option make it known to the customer…
Linux was a buzzword now it has become a Server OS taking away from Unix marketshare. Let the desktop battle ground ignite create some noise or just change period!
don’t they understand what the word “pre-install” means? Or are they just pretending they don’t understand… possibly thanks to some ‘gentle’ pressure from Redmond… I do understand Dell has to be very careful with their words, but really… this does not sound promising at all if they start talking like this.
this does not sound promising at all if they start talking like this.
Well, true, pre-installed would have been nice, perhaps the best possible outcome.
But I think Linux-certified plus FreeDOS or plus Linux install DVD isn’t that bad either.
Certainly a lot better than forced pre-installed Windows or no-guarantee-it-will-work-with-Linux N-Editions
A nice side effect is that component manufacturers will have to seriously start thinking about their Linux compatability
Yeah, I’ll take “this hardware works well with Linux” over nothing, especially because there’s a very good chance I’ll want to switch distros at some point, or use a different one.
Dell says, “We … are working with Novell to certify our corporate client products for Linux…” (emphasis mine). This indicates that the certifications have not yet come through. That being the case, it is no surprise that the GNU/Linux distro isn’t being pre-installed yet.
As you know, Windows is sold to businesses (volume licenses) and to OEM for preloading computers. Thus, if Linux is to gain any significant marketshare, it must come from preloading by OEMs. If this happens, more people will want to run Linux at work, leading to the business licenses.
I don’t know if Dell is really planning any significant push in this area, but if they did, it could start a historic shift.
As you know, Windows is sold to businesses (volume licenses) and to OEM for preloading computers. Thus, if Linux is to gain any significant marketshare, it must come from preloading by OEMs. If this happens, more people will want to run Linux at work, leading to the business licenses.
Historically, it’s business use that drives home use, not the other way around. Popular home computers were steamrolled by the trickle-down adoption of Windows, whereas Apple’s popularity in the consumer market is barely registering anything more than a statistical anomaly in terms of enterprise use. Besides, anyone that has dealt with a corporate IT department knows that corporate IT types show little concern for what their users want, unless, and only if, it happens to bisect nicely with their own objectives.
Dell simply doesn’t have the infrastructure to support home users buying Dimensions and Inspirons preloaded with Ubuntu et al. And they will be calling Dell when they need support, otherwise they wouldn’t be buying Dell. Without major subsidization like they receive from Microsoft, or significant economies of scale to balance fixed costs, the investment required in building the engineering, sales, marketing and support infrastructures for a linux distro would likely be prohibitive when they consider the cost-recovery that has to be passed on to the final price the consumer pays. In other words, Ubuntu loaded machines would have to cost more than otherwise identical Windows loaded machines. That is the part that often gets overlooked in discussions about trying to mesh an OSS community-driven model with an established consumer business model.
Dell knows that the Joe Average Dell customer simply will not settle for being provided with a url for community-based forum support when he can’t figure out why sound won’t work with a certain application. Disgruntled customers can damage brand value, so the big companies rarely gamble.
The only alternative is to engineer the hardware to ensure that it meets common linux compatibility criteria (ie. drivers supported by the current kernel), and then allow the consumer to choose their distro and install it themselves; I don’t think that’s as big an obstacle as it seems. A modern distro installs painlessly on a platform with supported hardware.
Novell is probably the one company with the infrastructure and resources to provide the backend support that organizations like Dell would require to provide any sort of quasi-official support for linux at the desktop level, but even then that effort is better tailored towards corporate clients than home users.
I’ll be happy enough when the OEMs start using hardware components that are supported by more than just Windows, since that is probably the single biggest obstacle to adoption, one that I think is an even bigger issue than application availability. So even if it’s a baby step in the overall scheme of things, it’s still an important move.
Just my 2c…
I would actually nuance your comments by saying that what geeks adopt at home they eventually drag in to work. Most businesses in the early 1980’s had to be dgragged kicking and screaming off their green-screens to PC’s. Their IT people were to busy fiddling with their Wangs and mainframes. Just as in the 1990’s I started seeing “unofficial” machines pop up in data centers used for various tasks – running Linux.
I whole heartedly agree that they have to figure out how to economically support Linux. Some companies support Linux, but what they mean is they’re still supporting RH9, AS 3, and SuSE 9. However, I think it would be worth their while to crack this nut. Of the people that buy computers every couple of years – I imagine quite a number are geeks. It would be nice to see the $999 laptop with a Linux compatible wirless chipset and video card.
I disagree. Many corporate computing environments make it nearly impossible for all but the most die-hard Linux gurus to run their preferred OS at work. Between Exchange, Citrix, and <insert homegrown accounting/sales software here>, using Linux at work is often a fruitless struggle.
Even at IBM it wasn’t easy to get everything working until they semi-recently rolled out the Open Client internally. Before this there was an internal community project that maintained a Loki installer for the Lotus Notes client via Wine, which worked sometimes (for sufficiently broad definitions of “worked”). Access to certain VM mainframes wasn’t fully compliant with telnet, so they had their own Windows-only remote session client for that. And who can forget the time your presentation looked great in Impress, only to discover (during your presentation for high-level managers) that your bullets were replaced by ASCII rectangles and your titles were hidden behind the background when displayed via PowerPoint?
On the other hand, GAIM with the Meanwhile plugin for Sametime messaging has always been far superior to the Lotus Sametime client. I even use it on Windows!
At home I run Linux for many reasons, among them is that I like having a choice. At work, I don’t have a choice. I either play nice and work with their infrastructure, or I forfeit my meal ticket. Thankfully the Open Client is here and Linux at work is a pleasant reality for me. But this is not the case for many less fortunate Linux users.
Edited 2007-02-25 05:10
it does happen at the OEM level, how else do you think business’ get Linux on their machines that use it now?
Those OEM’s happen to be technically “VAR’s” is all. Dell has just now realized a segment of the computing market (small to med. biz) that they haven’t taken and now they are going to slit their throats.
At every place I’ve ever worked, the first thing that happens when a new computer is bought is that it is formated and reinstalled using that companies standard install procedures. So I’m not sure that OEM preloading has that huge an effect on company useage.
My heart sank somewhat when the announcement said:
we are working with Novell to certify our corporate client products for Linux
since this rules out Joe Sixpack users and Novell are dangerously close to becoming locked into the Redmond Deathstar’s gravity field.
I perked up when Dell continued with:
We don’t want to pick one distribution and alienate users with a preference for another. We want users to have the opportunity to help define the market for Linux on desktop and notebook systems. In addition to working with Novell, we are also working with other distributors and evaluating the possibility of additional certifications across our product line.
BUT fine words butter no penguins. These guys have to walk the walk or there’ll be a pretty bleak conclusion to draw. I know this is a very small deal for Dell given their size, and it is quite an advance considering that for years Dell couldn’t bring themselves to pronounce the L word, but it could be quite a big deal for Linux if they come through and walk the walk.
Despite Novell’s obnoxious agreement with Microsoft, there’s nothing special about Novell’s Linux distros. If they work with Dell to certify that a laptop works with their Linux, it will work (or can be made to work) with everyone’s Linux.
It will still be better for all Linux users, including those who want nothing to do with Novell.
Of course, it will be better for all of us if Red Hat, Ubuntu and everyone else also work with Dell.
In the end it’s all time fooling the customer.
For example, about the popular demand of a “clean desktop install” they say:
“In fact, today XPS customers can opt-out of almost all preinstalled software. We will be expanding this effort in the coming months.”
What they in fact do/think: Well, we know people aren’t talking about the extra software they can purchase but about the shitsoft we get money from the vendor to foist it on our customers (ie AOL et al)… but, well… we still get a shitload of money for it! Well,… let’s say “in the coming months”, that’s what the ATI people successfully tell about their linux drivers, too all the time.
I just hate the business of imposing software to users. It’s a very big business…
From Dell IMO. Did MS not say that Dell could serve but not create demand for Linux? This looks to me to be a case of Dell preparing the way for a much large push on the Linux pre-installation front. If MS calls foul and starts trying to put pressure on em, all Dell needs to do is point at IdeaStorm.
Not a bad move considering the recent bad press about Dell’s falling market share. I wonder if Michael has anything to do with this? 😉
[Edit: Added Linux to the second sentence for clarity purposes.]
Edited 2007-02-24 22:30
This is a great start!
Now we dont have to pay the Microsoft tax.
Dell Dimention and OptiPlex desktops, Latitude notebooks and Dell Precision workstations with FreeDOS for easy installation of Linux or BSD.
bah, MSFT “tax” on a Dell/big box pc is next to zero. Those guys get licenses from MSFT for peanuts compared to what the mom and pops or even NewEgg get them for. That’s one reason it was so obvious that MSFT was a monopoly because by entering into those agreements they shut themselves out of being able to sell any other OS. Now that the practice has been exposed MSFT can’t do that anymore.
Regardless, it won’t make a difference to Joe Sixpack at all until DRM (which like it or not is here to stay) comes to Linux and that won’t happen until either Apple finally supports Linux or MSFT opens up DRM WMA/WMV.
People who will buy these computers will install pirated versions of Windows on top of Linux. That’s for sure.
That’s a rather broad generality.
People who will buy these computers will install pirated versions of Windows on top of Linux
You know, the very same could be said about Windows.
Most pirated versions of Windows run on computers originally sold with a different version of Windows.
Awesome, thats a recursive burn!
Well, people who want Windows will just purchase the systems with pre-installed Windows; Its as simple as that.
My next system will likely be one of these offering, though I wont be looking for a new system for at least a couple more years.
But I could just buy one of these and install FreeBSD on it without needing to pay an extra $50-200+ for a copy of Windows nor worry about a system bogged with third-party crap.
“People who will buy these computers will install pirated versions of Windows on top of Linux. That’s for sure.”
Why hello there microsoft! Obviously that argument has been made before, but I just don’t buy it. After buying a $1000 computer, who’s going to mind the extra $50 for an OEM Windows install? And who among the general public actually likes installing Windows themselves?
Especially in this day and age with added concerns about activation and WGA, the added slight expense of a preinstalled Windows will almost always win out over the aggravation of dealing with a pirated edition. That may not be true in poorer areas, but people in poorer areas are a bit less likely to be buying a brand new computer from Dell, no?
Edited 2007-02-25 00:46
Especially in this day and age with added concerns about activation and WGA, the added slight expense of a preinstalled Windows will almost always win out over the aggravation of dealing with a pirated edition.
I think you have that backwards. For a geek it’s easier to work around the WGA and gain the benefit of using a pirated edition, which allows you to install how many times you like without needing to call home for permission. How many users have been forced to buy (or chosen to pirate instead) because the OEM copy that came with their machines refuses to activate and is constantly and incorrectly flagged as being pirated?
If you’re going to be called a pirate any way and are told your only possible resolution to Microsoft’s incorrect flagging of your OS as illegal is to purchase another copy of Windows why not pirate? Of course I’m the geek who tries to install Linux and hopes it works with all my hardware, and this latest announcement by Dell gives me hope the next time my OEM key fails to activate I’ll be able to install Linux on that machine rather than reach for the corporate* install disk I have….
–bornagainpenguin
—————–
* I have a corporate install disk. I also have a Windows XP license for all my machines as well. Do the math. I’ve paid for the right to use the OS, if you make it artificially difficult for me to use what I’ve paid good money for then I reserve the right to do whatever I need to do to work around the artificial limitations you’ve inflicted on me.
On the one hand I’m thrilled to see Dell finally making an effort to build machines which are Linux compatible.
On the other hand the fact they’re planning to use Novell as a source for what is compatible and focus only on the corporate market simply reinforces the perception of Novell as the only ‘legal’ Linux and the OS as a corporate server OS not ready for the desktop.
What to do? What to do??
I guess I’ll look into this when I go laptop shopping later this year, and see how their Linux offerings stack up next to OSX and whatever laptops Apple is pushing at that time.
–bornagainpenguin
Well, the article says they are investigating partnerships with other distributors as well, so we can be quite certain that either Linspire or Canonical are going to do a related press release in the not to distance future.
One doesn’t have to like either of them, but it’s a fact that they are very good at marketing.
As long as the other distributor has the same deal with MS?
First, HP ships FreeDOS systems (I’ve only seen them on the business side but it’s not like you have to know a secret handshake). Second Dell’s got a poor reputation in the geek community (IMHO). Adding blinky lights and putting XPS on their systems hasn’t seemed to help much. We’re the guys that sometimes decide what to buy and Dell ain’t cool and who wants to buy retarded stuff? (Not that anyone else besides maybe Boxx and Apple really offer anything cool). Maybe by offering Linux, or at least talking about offering Linux, they’ll start to look cool again.
Ok, Dell has made this announcement how many times before, only to be smacked back into line by MS?
MS will simply increase OEM Vista prices, stop delivering XP to dell, or otherwise act to reduce Dell’s profit margin.
MS doesn’t want consumers to have a say or choice in software; Dell doesn’t want to lose market share to its competitors. Dell only makes these statements for publicity purposes.
This is only more fluff.
Edited 2007-02-25 02:19
This is good news for the linux community. Up until recently (when i bought my macbook pro) I was looking for a laptop that would be fully linux compatible, had my laptop search been a little farther down the road I would have looked into this. I don’t care if it is preinstalled, I simply wanted something that would work well with linux in general.
on a side note, my macbook pro was a pleasent supprise. Upon booting the sabayon linux live cd virtually everything worked out of the box, wireless, aiglx, graphic drivers, my usb mouse, my trackpad, everything.
so if you want a nice lappy that runs linux flawlessly, look into a macbook pro and i would imagine the macbook as well.
“so if you want a nice lappy that runs linux flawlessly, look into a macbook pro”
Or a Thinkpad… Mine runs Debian ‘flawlessly’.
Edited 2007-02-25 12:38
We asked for _PREINSTALLED_ Linux, not certification. And no, not just on corporate machines. We want the full line, from crap box to servers, to have a preload check box right next to Windows under Operating System.
Really, who cares what distro.
What this will do, no matter WHAT distro they use is they will be forced to make sure that all their hardware(soundcards, network, video etc) works with Linux.
If this changes the way they pick what chipsets, motherboards etc they use then it will be better for Linux users no matter what distro they use.
If DELL plays this right they could be the “preferred” desktop provider for Linux….IF they start to have desktops that people will know that all the components “just work” with Linux. Sort of the reputation that IBM Laptops have/had.
Yes, agree 100% and don’t understand why anyone’s bitching about Dell. At this point there are too many distributions to choose from anyway. Insuring hardware compatibility (on a kernel level) is the key. I would say, let the first step will be “Insuring compatibility and letting user to select/install his/her own favority flavor of Linux”, and the second step in some future would be to start offering a choice of few pre-installed distributions (such as Red Hat, Novell, (K)Ubuntu).
If this is done correctly, this is huge.
Selecting Linux as the OS of choice needs to be as easy as marking a box in a drop-down menu. The possibility of choosing Linux needs to be prominently advertised.
This is great for two of the companies I support. A part of me is still in disbelief over this, but it could be very welcome news.
good for linux
good for us.
Why is it so hard to put a check box for operating system? Have Suse, Freespire, Ubuntu,Fedora Freedos, Windows. They dont have to offer support for anything other than tha HARDWARE THEY MAKE you think they REALLY offer support for machines running windows? What they do is if its a sofware problem is to tell you to call microsoft and they ALWAYS say its a software problem and when you call microsoft what do they tell you…..you got it its a hardware problem lol leaving you shit out of luck. They can say call connical,novell,linspire etc for you support needs JUST AS THEY DO NOW for microsoft. And imho it will quicker and easier for system builders to install linux saving time AND money and if its a free distro it means no money upfront for dell as well! So in all reality there so REAL reason NOT to do this on their ENTIRE line of pc’s And while they are at it since mac wont allow you to install osx on pc’s why not just become a mac reseller and make a percentage of the growing mac market.
Also why “certify” with novell the linux kernel developer will write whatever driver you need FOR FREE and under NDA so theres no worries. So if they need drivers for things to work all they need to do is provide specs simple as that
I use Novell systems at home. Will they allow “joe six packs” to buy this too?
Edited 2007-02-25 16:48
I mean I know they want the little certified sticker for marketing, etc. But if they just had a little note that said vanilla kernel > 2.6.x detects all hardware on this laptop, and it works acceptably (i.e my wireless usb dongle will come up and can connect), that would be great. A note about whether direct rendering works with the stock (open-source) drivers would be extra-nice. And more than half the battle of installing any distro.
Dear me, so much negativity! Can’t we just greet this news with a little cautious optimism? It’s small chinks in Microsoft’s armour like this that could start to really open up the playing-field. Everyone knows their game by now, including legislators, so it’s no longer possible for them to squeeze out competitors. In time, this will make a big difference, and this is just the beginning.
For the record, I hope they do offer a range of distro preinstalls. I’d love to call them up and ask them to do a Gentoo Stage 1 install for me, with KDE AND Gnome </evil>
In fact, today XPS customers can opt-out of almost all preinstalled software
That wasn’t true 1 month ago when I ordered an XPS laptop. If it was true, it wasn’t obvious. When you have to pick a trial antivirus on one page and there is no “none” option, then on the internet service page you have to pick between 4 providers but still no “none”.
It was probably hidden to a point where I couldn’t find it, or it doesn’t exist, or you need to order by phone and tell them specifically.