Submitted by “This story is for anyone considering or interested in switching from Mac to Microsoft’s very beautiful new operating system, Windows Vista. I made the switch several weeks ago, from my trusty 12″ PowerBook to (at first) a 17” HP widescreen notebook. Was my switch from Mac to Windows Vista easy? Was I able to ‘Think Different’, the other way around? And a month later, have I decided to stick with Vista or go back to the Mac? Read on to find out – and please, before you send hate mail, read the whole story.”
it is hosted on http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16873608
work it out for yourself…
read the whole story ?
no thanks, I can guess from the url what the story will be….
Blow Vista trumpet for 3.5 pages, then say, but I like this about my mac and will use that….
Thom, any chance we can mod articles down ?
Edited 2007-01-31 22:36
disclaimer: i mean you no disrespect here.
i think you should give the article a chance — you might be surprised. if you want, skip to the last paragraph of the last page. (hint: the guy switchs back to a mac in the end.)
more on topic, i thought the article was well written, but i was disapointed that it seemed to focus (mainly) on polish and design of the dell laptop he used for testing, rather than.
Edited 2007-01-31 22:44
If you read the edit times on my last post, you will indeed realise that I had read the article, as I had said that he had switched back too…
never mind people not fully reading the articles, what about the ones who do not fully read the posts hahaha
So you said you can guess from the URL but then had to edit your guess after actually reading the story? Doesn’t that kind of contradict being able to guess from the URL?
yes, yes it does.
sometimes I speak before I think.
as do others around this site.
+1 for honesty and obviousness :p
Since you didn’t read TFA, you missed this gem:
“Back home, I wandered over to Apple’s Web site to preview what’s coming in the next major upgrade to OS X, named Leopard. Lots of nice features, including the addition to sticky notes in the Mail program.”
I’m eagerly anticipating Leopard, but not for sticky notes.
The article comes from MSNBC, the author seems to commend Vista’s various shiny new features, and in the end he switched back to OS X…
Actually, he didn’t switch back to Mac OS X, he switched back to a MAC, because of the Design of the laptop. Didn’t sound like he had too much against Vista
Of course part of the reason he didn’t like the laptop was that the sleep functionality didn’t work right–and this seems to be a Vista problem….
Always was one of my main motivations to get a Mac, actually–my last laptop (an HP) always had trouble reliably going to sleep–it would do it once per Windows session, but after that a full shutdown was necessary if I wanted to power it down. Then it died, though, and the used Toshiba I picked up to replace it works considerably better.
To me it is not at all weird that he switched back.
I work in Windows all day, but have only Macs at home. I know the “feeling” that he talks about — when you sit down to your Mac, you are “home”. When you sit down with Windows, you are a visitor. Like watching a movie on TV at home, with your kitchen and bathroom only a few feet away, vs. watching a movie in a theater. The kids are talking too loud and/or kicking the back of your seat… and the Coke that you drank is now nudging you out of the theater and you don’t have a pause button!
I know that other people feel this way as well, even if they don’t realize it — look at all of the themes that try to make WinXP or Linux look like Mac OS X, for instance. But even though they can make WinXP or Linux (loosely) resemble a Mac, they can never make it FEEL like one, and that’s why Apple is selling a lot of Macs now.
“The article comes from MSNBC, the author seems to commend Vista’s various shiny new features, and in the end he switched back to OS X…”
Well, if you’re paranoid, you *could* say that the entire purpose of the article is to get the sceptical Apple/Linux fans interested in actually *reading* a Vista article in the first place.
This way, they can read all about Vista’s “shiny new features”, which otherwise they probably wouldn’t bother with.
Now question is: is MS really out to get you? :p
Edited 2007-02-01 10:14
Just because I’m paranoid doesn’t mean they’re NOT out to get me…
I get enough stupid ads and commercials withouth reading this drivel.
read the whole story ?
no thanks, I can guess from the url what the story will be….
uhh, you would guess wrong, he switched back to the Mac
> uhh, you would guess wrong,
> he switched back to the Mac
Maybe i’m paranoid, but don’t let them fool you.
This article is intended for Windows users, not Mac users.
I think the article has a hidden message what Vista not only as good as OsX but much better than the former Windows version.
This seems clear what they want me to upgrade to check their “new better technology” with the words like:
… and the new Windows Media Player 11. All of these programs were at once familiar but much better looking than before”
If only all articles on OSX/Vista or Apple/Microsoft could be so well-written and dignified we would have the knowledge to make a reasoned choice.
I just wish authors writing about any OS would make sure when they say an OS can or can’t do something, it is correct, not that they just can’t see or find it.
(For example, iPhoto can sort by folder quite easily.)
If a user after putting in reasonable effort can’t work out how to do something in a program then that is almost as bad as the program not having the feature at all.
Unless the feature is put in the menu: View -> Sort Photos.
I’m not picking on Windows, and I’m not going to pick on OS X.
There were some valid points in there.
Some that I agree with, and others I don’t.
But all I see, is an article on MSNBC.
How much Microsoft get to influence the site I don’t know, or at least MSNBC like to ‘look after’ them by giving good articles. And the timing is great.
I also see where he got a Zune that Microsoft GAVE to him.. which seems to make it a setup article, or he’s obviously getting paid to do it.
“As for another player, the Zune, which Microsoft sent for me to check out”
He also talks about Security concerns saying there’s nothing wrong with Vista as of yet.
“that I’ve had zero indication of any kind of net-related badness since switching to Vista.”
Which is hard seeing as it’s really only been released to the public so it’s just starting to get out there.
Also seems to use nearly every feature in the OS saying it’s great.
Towards the end of the article he says he switched because it was new and shiny.
Now I don’t know about anyone else, but I have Vista at home, Dual booting with XP, I also have Vista on my Macbook Pro Dual booting with OS X. So I’ve had time to play with it.
(I don’t like it yet, lack of drivers and Application support etc)
Seeing as she didn’t say exactly what 17″ laptop she got, would it not have been better to get a Macbook and Dual boot, and have the best of both worlds when needed?
I’m sorry, but I don’t see anyone buying a PC laptop, to go buy a Macbook again just because they preferred OS X better, how many people have the money to buy a new laptop just to test vista for <X> amount of time.
It just seems to be the article was pure advertising rather than a honest switch.
That’s my feelings anyway. It’s certainly good timing seeing that most other sites at the moment are slamming Vista in nearly every way, whether it’s Ars or personal bloggers.
So to have this story come out, to make it sound like Vista was sent from heaven and all the other articles are just nit picking is very ‘convenient’
Edited 2007-01-31 22:53
It just seems to be the article was pure advertising rather than a honest switch.
It’s a list of talking points :
* Security
* Eyecandy
* Bundled Apps
* Media Center integration
* Negatives stem from hardware problems (Dell in the article)
Expect these to repeated again and again by MS-friendly media in an endless series of articles until they are taken for granted.
Edited 2007-01-31 22:55
It’s a list of talking points :
* Security
* Eyecandy
* Bundled Apps
That list looks a lot like the OS X list of talking points.
* Negatives stem from hardware problems (Dell in the article)
Apple does have a serious advantage that they also control the hardware, not just the software. To flip this, all credit to Microsoft for making a huge piece of software that runs fairly well on most hardware. I want to see Apple even try, then we can start complaining about hardware. Ditto for Linux too.
That list looks a lot like the OS X list of talking points.
True, OsX is the main competitor and have just had a successfull campain based on some of those points. OsX is now widely regarded as more secure and good value because of iLife. It makes sense MS would focus on these areas.
To flip this, all credit to Microsoft for making a huge piece of software that runs fairly well on most hardware. I want to see Apple even try, then we can start complaining about hardware. Ditto for Linux too.
Sorry to burst your bubble there, but that has been done by a lot of companies for a long time. MS has created their own problem there by encouraging crappy win-modems, win-soundcards, etc … that will barely function correctly even on Windows.
“Apple does have a serious advantage that they also control the hardware…”
Bit of a myth. They don’t control it any more than Dell controls it. Both limit the hardware, maybe a better description. Apple is buying in selected components. So is Dell. Apple is using drivers to run the components. So is Dell. Apple may write some of them in-house, but is it really so important who the driver writers work for? And in many ways, perhaps its more natural they should work for the component maker?
You just do not have any more driver problems on Windows nowadays than you do on Macs, and of course Dell, HP etc test the combinations of hardware and OS and drivers they are going to ship as thoroughly as Apple does. Linux you do have more problems – scanners and some printers and some modems.
The Windows driver issues in my experience vanished several years ago, after having diminished sharply still earlier.
The Windows driver issues in my experience vanished several years ago, after having diminished sharply still earlier.
Because all the hardware components are at least designed for windows and thus come delivered with drivers.Is that due to MS?
“The Windows driver issues in my experience vanished several years ago, after having diminished sharply still earlier.”
Until you loose your Windows XP installation CD and can’t install the driver for your digital camera any longer; because *even though* the wizard can search on the internet and *even though* you validated the thing in the first place, the wizard *keeps* asking for an installation CD.
And then you go the the website of the company who made your camera, you download a bunch of stuff, some photo manipulation software you don’t want gets installed and your digital camera STILL doesn’t work. The fact it’s the vendor’s “fault” doesn’t make it less frustrating.
Yes, this happened to me. And maybe I’m an exception, I don’t know.
What I do know, is that when I rebooted to a certain Linux distro, I plugged in & powered the camera, and a window came popping up asking me what to do with the files. So I downloaded the photos and sorted them in Digikam.
So in my experience, they didn’t entirely vanish just yet.
Edited 2007-02-01 11:38
Yes, its true, if your hardware is supported, Linux is a joy. The classic case is SATA drives. Install XP from scratch and you have to make sure you have the drivers on a diskette (a CD will not do), press the function key at the right point… Mandriva 2006, you just started up from the DVD or CD and away you went.
On the other hand, distros that didn’t have SATA built in, a year or so ago, heaven help you!
Yeah. We all know linux controls most of the hardware it runs on! And of course, micro-poor-soft is having a hell of a hard time figuring out how to reverse engineer the drivers to run on those linux controlled hardware vendors.
huhum…
I just can’t figure out what is wrong with my above paragraph… can anyone help me ?
“or he’s obviously getting paid to do it”
a professional journalist being paid to write an article?
hold the front page!
I also see where he got a Zune that Microsoft GAVE to him.. which seems to make it a setup article, or he’s obviously getting paid to do it.
*sigh* You have no idea how this journalism thing works, right? How do you think all those reviewers on websites get their stuff? Do you think they all buy those products themselves?
It is common practice that manufacturers either loan or give you as a journalist stuff for review. It does not influence the way you write a review; Apple NL loaned me a brand spanking new MacBook Pro (worth 2800E) and I wrote a negative review of the thing (for whatever reasons, I didn’t like it).
That is the way journalism works. ALL companies give out free shit for reviews. Remember that ModBook we reported on? The converted-into-a-tablet MacBook?
One will be coming my way. For free. I have no idea yet if I have to give it back (probably yes, usually stuff above 200-300E must be returned); either way, you can expect an honest review of this 2000E+ machine. Whether I have paid for it or not.
—
If you knew a thing or two about psychology, you’d know that if you have paid for a product and it sucks, you will justifiy your purchase by i.e. ignoring its downsides, only to sooth your own discomfort about having bought a bad product.
In other words, getting free stuff makes the review MORE honest, instead of less. Go compare reviews of people who have BOUGHT a MacBook Pro to those reviewers who got one for FREE. Now see which ones are more negative.
*sigh* You have no idea how this journalism thing works, right? How do you think all those reviewers on websites get their stuff? Do you think they all buy those products themselves?
Actually, Consumer Magazine in NZ do buy all their stuff. I used to sell them things when I worked in retail. They are probably the most respected source of consumer affair information in NZ, from the best products to buy, to the best way to use them.
I have a work colleague here who used to work for a magazine company. He supports your statement and adds that reviewers will simply favour their article to whoever paid the most for advertising etc.
The *magazine* buying the stuff still isn’t the same as the reviewer himself having to pay for it. To the reviewer, it’s still like he’s gotten it for free.
“In other words, getting free stuff makes the review MORE honest”
Ignoring the rest of the tripe…I cannot think of a response that would;should not get me modded right down. My moral sensibilities are actually twiching.
A bribe is a bribe is a bribe…we live in a crooked world of lies and half truths.
I’ll tell you what will make reviewers more honest…they can’t keep stuff.
Alienware
http://alienwares-cks.blogspot.com/
Microsoft
http://www.istartedsomething.com/20061227/microsoft-free-ferrari/
etc etc. that without the simpering to journalists. Its disgusting.
Thom, I don’t know what to say.
I wasn’t exactly bias to either Operating system, or any operating system for that matter, I use them all on a daily basis for 8hrs a day.
I’ve got Windows servers and clients over many versions, OS X server and clients, Unix Servers and Clients, and also Linux servers and clients.
So I tend to see the bigger picture when it comes to reviewers who actually do a review, and really do inform people about the pro’s and cons of each and give a good argument as to features.
I got mixed feelings from that “Article” myself, to me, getting given a laptop I would skew a review because you think to yourself “Hey, gee, that’s good of them to provide me with a product, +1 point there”
That Article to me was nothing but a big site that is largely involved with the company he was cheering for.
And only because the majority of other tech sites are saying bad things about Vista. They need to balance the tide.
Hey, I love parts of all OS’s, and there’s parts I don’t like, I base my decision on what will do the job best for the situation at hand.
From your articles, I’ve only seen Linux = Best, OS X = Worst.
Edited 2007-02-01 03:02
The article lacked any real research into what the OS can do and cannot do at this time. Also I’m sure readers would of liked to know how it not only compares to Windows XP but other OS such as OSX, not just what eye candy Microsoft is selling to customers.
I don’t have a current Apple system to actually compare but if OSX is anything like current Linux distributions I’m fairly sure it doesn’t require as much resources to run as Windows Vista. 1 GB of RAM is a lot to ask of an OS just for the minimum system requirement. After all OpenSUSE/SLED can run on 512 MB RAM and even PCLinuxOS can run on 256 MB RAM.
I’m frequently evaluating software and I’m more impressed with PCLinuxOS 2007 Test Release 1 than with what I experienced testing Windows Vista. I had two crash dumps (infamous Blue Screen Of Death) running Windows Vista on a test system while running Windows Media Player and surfing the net using IE. There’s also a severe lack of Vista support from third party hardware/software comapnies. The same test system has no issues running PCLinuxOS and OpenSUSE, both which actually use less memory than Vista while running. For those curious the test system runs an Intel P4 3.2 GHz (Hyperthreading enabled), Abit IC7-G motherboard, 2 GB RAM, Geforce FX 6600 GT.
It’s not all negative about Vista as I do like what Microsoft has done with UAC to be more in line like Linux distributions to ensure better security. I also found Live OneCare to be a useful and user friendly application that offers more security and peace of mind for consumers. Though I believe it would benefit Microsoft to lower the pricing on Windows Vista versions including Live OneCare to be more competitive.
“faintly judgmental about the Macintosh and in comes a flood of hate mail from Mac users. The worst part is the tone of most, which generally tend toward religious zealotry”
When they have; wars; crucify someone; or kill a few million in the name of liking an OS. I will get past a phrase like this.
@cyclops
You must be new to the scene. OS wars, cult personalities and blind fanatism…
Basically they are like the average OSS fundie except the Mac zealots are less messed up in the head. Take this for example: The Mac zealot doesn’t care to “save the world” (aka activism, like the DRM scare) like the OSS fundie does.
Both need therapy.
You forgot to talk about the MS fundies. These are beyond hopeless, because they don’t realize they write the same flamebaiting drivel but get *paid* to do it.
That’s why there aren’t as much MS fundies, but there are quite a few astroturfers and MS shills.
Which one are you?
@archiesteel
I am none of both. Though thanks for reminding me of astroturfing. We’ve seen our fare share of that behaviour from the OSS fundies since the imminent release of Windows Vista. Lotsa FUD (DRM, treated like a criminal lol, etc…)
However there are no MS fundies. There isn’t something even comparable in the MS world. The average MS fanboy doesn’t go launching a barrage of insults when faced with even the smallest amount of criticism. Unlike the average Mac and Linux/BSD users, Mac zealots and OSS fundies can’t take any critism at all. They’ll never admit that they’re wrong even though they made a mistake.
Never seen hate mail from windows users though…
@ronaldst
I’m off-topic; The quality of posts does range quite a lot, but most are pretty good; yours aren’t.
You are not good enough for astroturfing. Have a look for MollyC. Who is IMO one of the greatest pro-microsoft posters here. Her posts are of a quality that I could only hope to match. I suggest you look her up…she should be paid by Microsoft if she is not.
Since you insist on religious imagery to fan the flames, perhaps you should consider Luke 6:41…
“And why do you look at the speck in your brother’s eye, but do not perceive the plank in your own eye?”
There are quite a few MS-or-nothing posters here and on other Internet forums. They are just as fanatical as overenthusiastic Linux or OS X users, and they do easily resort to ad hominem attacks against those who disagree with them. One of their favorite insult is to call anyone who dares criticize Microsoft “zealots” or “fundies”.
So, before pointing out the speck in other people’s eyes, consider the plank in your own.
Oh, by the way, Linux advocates *can’t* be astroturfers – Linux companies don’t have enough money to buy fake grassroots support. Instead, they have *real* grassroots support.
@archiesteel
So, before pointing out the speck in other people’s eyes, consider the plank in your own.
Only works when that other person has done something wrong.
Oh, by the way, Linux advocates *can’t* be astroturfers – Linux companies don’t have enough money to buy fake grassroots support. Instead, they have *real* grassroots support.
Maybe you should look up the definition of astroturfing first. Astroturfing doesn’t necessarily need to have money to do grassroots campaining. BTW what’s *real* grassroot support?
Maybe you should look up the definition of astroturfing first. Astroturfing doesn’t necessarily need to have money to do grassroots campaining. BTW what’s *real* grassroot support?
I think you need to look up the definition yourself, as well as that for the word “grassroots”. You obviously don’t understand what they mean.
Why don’t you both try making a good argument instead of pointing fingers and calling names?
“you look it up.”
“no, you look it up!”
“You must be new to the scene. OS wars, cult personalities and blind fanatism…
Basically they are like the average OSS fundie except the Mac zealots are less messed up in the head. Take this for example: The Mac zealot doesn’t care to “save the world” (aka activism, like the DRM scare) like the OSS fundie does.
Both need therapy.”
I don’t think you get it. You’ve been modded down, you use *inappropriate* words the only word that you could use is *fanatic*. It comes from the word fan.
I don’t like MAC OS X, but the *one* thing I do understand is how you could be a *fan* of apple.
1) They are the underdog
2) The machines are fashionable;stylish;slick etc.
3) Run *applications* designers are attracted to *adobe*, who are often fashionable;stylish;slick etc. themselves.
4) Innovative/Popularize new concepts.
5) …and keep doing it
I use Linux, I know exactly why I use Linux
1) Control
Linux users talk about GPL3,Privacy,EULA’s,DRM,Trusted computing.
I’m not saying they didn’t use it as a job, or wanted to try; learn something new; or had some specific requirement for it; Or it costs nothing; Or its Cool(sic) in the way you can compile it all
New users talk about it just working; who cares about the source…I don’t program!? Why cant I just click a download and some next buttons? Why is everything in separate directories; Its a tool etc etc
…and then comes a point when you use a IBM Clone, and you don’t feel in control, and you understand Why?
Vistas EULA over 3500 words *with* web references telling me what I *can’t* do. GPL3 contains 417 words telling me what I *can*.
Seriously tell me like you like Microsoft. I’ve spent half an hour of my time telling you why people *love* their operating systems…and I haven’t mentioned *ONE* technical detail; performance; stability etc etc, because the reality is they’re all *good enough*.
I wish I was better with words.
Edited 2007-02-01 01:52
@cyclops
I don’t think you get it. You’ve been modded down, you use *inappropriate* words the only word that you could use is *fanatic*. It comes from the word fan.
No. You don’t get it. I have been modded down because I told my opinion and people didn’t like it. So they abused their moderation points so they could feel better. People use the words fanatics, zealots, retards and noobs all the time and don’t get moderated down.
I use Linux, I know exactly why I use Linux
1) Control
Linux users talk about GPL3,Privacy,EULA’s,DRM,Trusted computing.
…and then comes a point when you use a IBM Clone, and you don’t feel in control, and you understand Why?
Yes I do understand. You must also note that giving someone more control means someone else has to give up some of their freedoms. If some hardware vendor don’t want to give their hardware specs/docs then they should have their decision respected. End of story.
Vistas EULA over 3500 words *with* web references telling me what I *can’t* do. GPL3 contains 417 words telling me what I *can*.
But in the end, it will have zero impact. As this is an area that isn’t important at all for the average PC user.
Seriously tell me like you like Microsoft. I’ve spent half an hour of my time telling you why people *love* their operating systems…and I haven’t mentioned *ONE* technical detail; performance; stability etc etc, because the reality is they’re all *good enough*.
I don’t like MS at all. I don’t have a relationship with my software nor peripherals. In the end, it’s only junk. I have my favourites just like everybody else like my MX510 mouse and Visual Studio.
I wish I was better with words.
Write more. It’s gonna expand your vocabulary.
[/i]People use the words fanatics, zealots, retards and noobs all the time and don’t get moderated down.[/i]
Yes, they do.
“No. You don’t get it. I have been modded down because I told my opinion and people didn’t like it. So they abused their moderation points so they could feel better. People use the words fanatics, zealots, retards and noobs all the time and don’t get moderated down.”
Actually, they do.
“But in the end, it will have zero impact. As this is an area that isn’t important at all for the average PC user.
Which is pretty much what he said mind you in a round about way.
“Write more. It’s gonna expand your vocabulary.”
Doesn’t seems to have helped you. I would advocate reading more to improve your vocabulary. And if you want to be able to hold your own in a discussion or disagreement, trying to understand your opponents point of view without disregarding it as “FUD” is generally considered an intelligent move.
Dude, if you actually knew more about what you where talking about, you could be the next NotPatker. I advise you keep working at it as your not quite there yet.
I am a Mac switcher, since just before Christmas. I have joined a few Mac user groups. What I have found is that Mac users appear in my experience to have a healthy skepticism about Apple, and a more subtle ability to distinguish between good and bad aspects of OS X than this statement involving religious zealotry would imply. I mean, I am surprised that this is the case, but it’s the case for me, at least.
You are referring to Mac *users* as opposed to Mac *fanboys*. I’m one of the former but not the latter. There’s a big difference.
Check out and compare the posts at the “comp.sys.mac.misc” usenet group with those at “comp.sys.mac.advocacy”, and you’ll see the difference at once.
But I’d agree that even Mac *fanboys* don’t really exhibit “religious zealotry” (though there is the cult of personality regarding Steve Jobs); more like enthusiasm spilled over into smugness and a superiority complex (again, I’m talking about the *fanboys* not the normal users). “Religious zealotry” is more aptly ascribed to the followers of RMS and the like.
“fanboys” oooh thats so well not a really good description really.
Where I lived fanboys *used* to mean those young men, with long hair, who had a band proudly displayed on there black T-shirt.
Its come to mean console related, because most are young men passionate about there console.
I stopped being a boy a *long* time ago. I’m tired of this gender hating phrase. Its just really more appropriate on other forums.
“Religious zealotry” is responsible for the Brutal Murder an men, women and children throughout world; leaving countless Millions living in fear. Richard Stallman is one of the main player in the Free software movement….spot the difference.
@MollyC we all know you love Microsoft
Edited 2007-02-01 18:35
Over the last few years, “fanboy” has come to mean, in tech circles, one who sees almost nothing wrong with his tech of choice (be it a game console, OS, mp3 player, etc), and sees almost nothing right about the alternatives (or is at least loathe to admit it).
Edited 2007-02-01 20:27
Well I tried all the Beta’s, none were up to scratch in real useability stakes imho.
The problem with Vista is that the shiny UI really, really lacks consistency. You never really know when a panel will change or open a new seperate window. It’s kinda like MS gave up half way through because they were too scared of breaking with Windows convention.
When you actually want to change a setting in Vista… God help you…. and all the poor soles who do PC tech support over a phone. The networking screens are a prime example of utter madness.
The Vista UI attitude is totally at odds with Office 2007 UI attitude. The Office 2007 GUI is a radical departure from previous versions, and for the better IMHO.
If only the Vista team had the balls of the Office GUI team I’d have been far, far more impressed with Vista.
Now there’s once thing that MS kicks Apple’s butt with…. Media Centre, Apple TV / Front Row / Eye TV are hopelessly outclassed by the MCE front end, it’s just a shame about it’s DRM infection.
All the above leads me to believe that Vista’s shiny new coat goes dull pretty darn soon once you want to achieve something with it. The article hinted at this all the way through.
So what is the summary of that article??? Well it’s obvious, the writer wanted a superb notebook & decent OS – a combo that just isn’t done by 99.9% of PC laptop brands (she won’t get sacked for blaming the PC hardware instead of the OS will she 😉
thingi
Edited 2007-01-31 23:20
If only the Vista team had the balls of the Office GUI team I’d have been far, far more impressed with Vista.
Meh. The only concern about the shiny UI I Have is how to turn it off
Give me Win32 classic, or give me death.
Now there’s once thing that MS kicks Apple’s butt with…. Media Centre, Apple TV / Front Row / Eye TV are hopelessly outclassed by the MCE front end, it’s just a shame about it’s DRM infection.
What, so you think that there is no DRM in the Mac?
No need to take a bullet for the mac here. That isn’t even what he was saying. He was complaining about DRM in general. (or at least it clearly comes across that way)
Err, there’s zero DRM in EyeTV, that ain’t the case the MCE, it’s got broadcast content flags for D-TV and uses dvr-ms instead of mpeg2 / mpeg 4 for recordings.
Yes Apple has DRM but not on *MY* stuff. It’s god damn everywhere in Vista.
I hate drm, I don’t buy stuff from itunes for two reasons:-
1. The bitrate is lower than tunes I can create from DRM free CD’s.
2. Tunes I rip from my CD’s are DRM free and can be played on jut about anything, MP3 is cool for that reason. I’d go Ogg based if there was more hardware support.
dvr-ms is simply MPEG2 wrapped in a container that contains meta-data (such as, the TV Program’s title, cast, when it was recorded, etc). It’s convenient to have all that in one file, so you can store it on a harddrive or DVD, and later move the file to other MCE machines and be able to read that data through the MCE UI.
There are programs available that allow you to extract the raw MPEG2, and of course you can burn a recorded TV program to a normal DVD video disc.
As for honoring the broadcast flags, so what? Lot’s of consumer electronic devices honor those flags. My old Panny DVR certainly did.
And Apple, a member of BDA (blu-ray disc association), will include in OSX Leopard the DRM required to play protected BR and HD-DVD discs; the same “draconian” DRM that Vista has.
I still don’t know why people keep spreading the Vista-DRM FUD, when dedicated hardware players use that exact same DRM to play hi-def movie discs, and not a word is said about it. And those players are used much more than Vista to play such discs, so if anyone is worried about DRM, they should be worried about it on those players before worrying about it in Vista.
Edited 2007-02-01 20:26
@MollyC thats my girl
No.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DVR-MS
Its not simply anything.
Its a DRM enumbered *proprietary* video and audio file format.
I’m sure you are also aware that much like say AVI or WAV can be extended at will
. The difference is in the DRM.
Also for fun Apple is no reference to DRM, Microsoft is the Monopoly here. Is Apple better than Microsoft when it comes to DRM. The answer is “Yes” and then “No”.
Microsoft force; Apple velvet handcuffs.
Oddly enough I can do what I want with my MythTV content no DRM in there at all, even automatically remove commercials.
This appears to be a comparison of the hardware ultimately… Not the OSes.
I think Office 2007 is a step forward from previous version of Office, but the UI still isn’t very good. For god’s sake what does Microsoft have against tool palettes? They’d be better off just stealing the code for Office for Mac and building from there…
And I dare you to explain the theory of operation behind the unified titlebar/menubar/toolbar monstrosity that Vista and Office 2007 ship with. Take a look at this screenshot: http://img371.imageshack.us/img371/2787/outlook20076to.jpg. What the hell is that?
It’s the new Ribbon UI. I’ve tried it a few time. It takes time to get used to it but I find it more efficient and takes less clicks to do what I want.
I hope it makes it’s way into the next Visual Studio. ^_^
I really like that new UI. Sure it is different, but it is very effective.
-G
he’s not getting paid to write the article.
he’s waiting for a promotion at work.
If the journalist (which has this article hosted on MSNBC and received a free Zune from, guess who, Microsoft…) switched back to Mac OS X, why does the title say “A Mac User Switches to Vista” ? Shouldn’t it be “A Mac User TRIES Vista” ? Or is this supposed to be a flamebait ?
As a ‘religious zealot’ I found this article to be a bit confusing. The author claims to be a long time Mac user, yet there are many inaccurate statements throughout the article.
“A video game trailer I’m viewing on Gamespot, for instance, continues to play in the miniature, minimized window.” – Quicktime has done that for quite a while.
“Vista’s bundled Photo Gallery is better than iPhoto, which I hate because it organizes pictures by “rolls” that correspond to the date they were taken, but there’s no way to simply organize iPhoto by existing folders.” – Drag the folders one at a time into the iPhoto folder list. They are imported and stay in the folder.
“I’ve had zero indication of any kind of net-related badness since switching to Vista” – It only officially launched a couple of days ago so isn’t it a bit early to be giving Vista a clean bill of security health? There have been plenty of Security software companies complaining recently about problems with the new Vista way of working.
“In fact, Vista’s system-wide search in some ways beats the Mac because it requires only one keystroke — the Windows key — to bring up the Start menu, where you can immediately type.” – well that’s got the Mac thoroughly beaten, as I have to press two keys that are next to each other (command and space) to call up spotlight where I can immediately type.
It’s also a bit puzzling that the author makes no mention of Vista’s confirmation prompting, which many other reviewers have complained about.
For someone who has been using computers for so long, the article seems rather shallow.
Hey wow thanks for the tip about Cmd+Space bringing up the Spotlight. I’ve not been a Mac user for very long, I bought one because I had the money and wanted to try it out. I love it. I love the way:
1) To install an application, drag and drop it into your applications folder. What? No “next, next, next, I agree, next, next, typical installation, next, next, finish, reboot” ?
2) The entire screen is scalable, and rendered using hardware acceleration that allows for smooth animation/transitions/effects. The one thing that bugged me about all the animation in Windows was that it never looked smooth, it looked like a cartoon. Haven’t seen Vista yet but I hope it has improved, for their sake.
3) USB devices just work. None of this “Found new hardware”, pop, “installing new hardware”, pop, “your device is ready to use”, pop. I plugged the same mouse into my Mac and it was working the moment I put my hand on it. I plugged my USB thumb-drive into it as well, and it popped up at least 10x faster than Windows.
4) Everything is so easy to find, and if you can’t find it, use the Spotlight. And now, thanks to you, I can search using just Cmd+Space.
Regards,
Dave.
Ya, I would take this author’s voice if I were a smart MS PR guy. Give praise for Vista but me dismissive about my own personal choice to go another road. It is a very smart way of making Vista sound very good, better than OSX, but not coming off as a PR guy.
Fantastic comment. It pretty much removed the need for me to type the same thing.
As I was reading, I kept thinking: “Wait.. the mac can do that!” I agree. This sounds like someone who doesn’t really know much about the Mac he’s supposedly had since picking strawberries to save for his Apple ][.
Edited 2007-02-01 15:10
I stopped reading after the comments on how great the Zune is. Nobody buys/uses a Zune unless they’re being paid to.
I don’t think being seen with a Zune is worth whatever they are paying. Especially the brown one.
http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2007/01/03
There has been the the oddball here and there…
A mac-user giving Vista a good review in an article posted on Microsoft’s news site (msnbc).
Hmm… and beginning with this: “Say something critical about Microsoft and Windows and no one bats an eyelash. But write anything even faintly judgmental about the Macintosh and in comes a flood of hate mail from Mac users. The worst part is the tone of most, which generally tend toward religious zealotry. So before I begin, let me begin by saying any e-mails of that type that are sent in response to this story will be deleted, with no reply.”
Well, perhaps it’s not entirely wrong that Mac users can be zealots – but the same goes for Windows, *BSD, Linux, and alternative OS’es – not to mention football fans (soccer as well as american rugb..football).
But but but… this article is rather weird. He keeps blessing Vista, claiming how good it is, and how bad Mac OS X is on all issues, failing to cover in depth the more techie (read problematic) parts (like filter rules in Outlook) in Vista. And then in the end he switches back to the Mac, despite he has claimed it’s inferior to Vista (something with Zen – perhaps mac users are zealots – or he’s just supposed to look like a Mac user). The end feels like something slapped on to give the article more credibility.
At least this article is well-written and interesting to read, unlike so many techno-bore screeds that pass for writing on the net.
I found the article a little superficial, though. These are very much the writer’s first impressions of Vista. Sure it looks nice, but what lies below the surface? Living for longer inside the Microsoft DRM-encumbered “user experience” might not be quite so funny. Chances are you’ll soon find yourself sucked right in with no way out, because everything is proprietary. Ironically, the same is true of the Apple Mac though the writer really doesn’t seem to mind this in the case of Apple.
I’m reminded of that quote when XP first came out: that using it is like going on a foreign holiday, when over the course of your week away it slowly dawns on you that everyone you meet – the waiter in the restaurant, the tourist guide, the bookings clerk – is giving you an entirely false impression of the country you are in. Absolutely all of them are on the take from Mr Big. The deal is that they only mention Mr Big’s tourist attractions and smilingly assure you that no others exist, and that even if any other attraction did exist you would not want to do there.
Soon you are in full paranoia mode and begin to wonder if these people would even tell you the correct time unless there was something in it for Mr Big … and then there was that worrying note in the hotel lobby this morning, something about guests being confined to bed by a nasty virus …
..how many different ways can a mac user complain about his OS of choice without being flamed by other mac fanatics?? ..i think he pulled it off quite well ..i mean he said how much he loves his mac, then he went to vista, and RANT about macs, blow off some steam and all is well from all of his mac friends and we all fell for it ..
brilliant!!
now hold on a minute… microsoft doesn’t pay people to flak their products
oh. wait.
http://dizzythinks.blogspot.com/2007/01/microsoft-pays-blogger-to-e…
http://www.geek.com/news/geeknews/2002Oct/gee20021015016813.htm
that said, i don’t think MS owns MSNBC anymore… yeah. right here:
http://news.com.com/Microsoft+sheds+control+of+MSNBC/2100-1025_3-60…
now, i’m not saying that the author here is a MS stooge. i’m just saying there’s precedent. anyway, there were some weird things in this article. dude says that he was a long-time mac user, but then goes on to say he switched to the mac because someone stole his credit card number “a few years ago.”
also, he likes the zune, but misses his ipod because it has a CLOCK??? that doesn’t make any sense. same thing about iTunes and WMP… he decides to stick with iTunes, which bums him out because windows is so much better at getting album art.
in any case, if this article is legit then fine. i think a lot of people are going to like vista. when my wife puts it on her computer, i might like it myself. sure, i’m an apple zealot, but i’m also self-confident in the incredible superiority of my computer that i don’t need to send out angry emails to people that have the audacity to blaspheme the mighty mac
“So I decided to switch again. From Vista, back to the Mac — to the brand new, white MacBook on which I told this story.”
When I switched into the *nix world BSD, Linux and OS X – I tossed out Bill’s crap. Never looked back.
Solid and stable over shiny and new.
“Say something critical about Microsoft and Windows and no one bats an eyelash. But write anything even faintly judgmental about the Macintosh and in comes a flood of hate mail from Mac users. The worst part is the tone of most, which generally tend toward religious zealotry.”
You really need to get out more. Say something bad about, (insert your favorite OS here), and you will get hate mail from zealots. Zealotry knows no OS boundaries. The percentage seems to be about the same regardless of what OS you are talking about. Although I did read the article I have to admit it was a struggle to make it all the way through. It had to be done, though, because I intended to comment on it.
I just don’t know what his Mac was not doing what is vista now doing for him?
Imo vista (windows in generaly) is more difficult to handle than a Mac.
But maybe the author is one of the interface kids, which likes to have the newest and most compositing interfaces.
But I really miss that peaceful, Zen-like quiet I felt with my Mac when I’d wake it up or put it instantly to sleep. For me, it just works right, without really having to think about it.
So I decided to switch again. From Vista, back to the Mac — to the brand new, white MacBook on which I told this story.
I run OS X at work now, but as I also write code for Windows, so I am running Parallels on here too with 2003, XP and Vista. I also have OS X, Linux and Vista (on their own h/w), so I get to see Vista in all it’s glory.
I must say (and have said it here before), I like the way Vista looks, I didn’t think I was going to, but I do. Having said that, I like OS X better. Why? Not sure. Why do I find one women more attractive than another, yet my friend would choose the reverse. Why do I get into some types of music, but not others?
I honestly think that most of the arguments here is on taste, and that is hard to quantify.
I love the way Vista looks, but I prefer the looks of OS X. If OS X suddenly implemented a look and style similar to Vista, I wouldn’t be too upset to be honest.
I personally think Windows in general tries to control your experience more than OS X does. I guess that’s it.
I can see things about Vista I don’t like (as I can with OS X), but a lot of that comes from what it is trying to do and cope with. Remember, OS X runs in a much more “controlled” environment, so can be more relaxed (sounds like a contradiction huh).
If OS X suddenly had to support all the PC hardware that Windows does, the OS X experience would be much different. OS X would need to control the 3rd party h/w a lot more than does with it’s own. You couldn’t assume all h/w out there will have gfx cards of this generation or that, or that sound is even provided (and so on).
Anyway, when all is said and done, buy the OS that best suites your needs…
Oh, I thought the article was OK, it read a little like an infomercial though.
Off topic… I was just in an Apple store here in Adelaide and had to wait to be served, that is becoming more and more common. Never used to happen, a couple off years ago you would be guaranteed to be one of the only ones in the store and have someone come over and ask if you needed help. Things have changed for Apple.
The impression the article gives is that for an informed experienced user, what really counts is the design of the hardware. The OSs have fairly small pros and cons on either side but it is basically down to taste. The decisive factor for him seems to have been the position of the vents and the noise of the cooling system.
It confirms one’s impression that the user interface difference, which used to be such a prominent feature of the Mac/Windows divide, has largely vanished as a deciding factor. Its not that there are no differences, but they have become differences of taste, whether you prefer the Buick or the Oldsmobile version. Its ironic that, as the difference has eroded, the intensity of feeling among Apple users about the differences that remain seems to have risen proportionately.
The choice of hardware was a little puzzling. If you want real quality in laptop hardware, surely you look at IBM/Lenovo rather than Dell? And surely there is no shortage of portables with side vents?
Edited 2007-02-01 07:00
1. I used DOS, Win 3.11, 95, 98, ME and XP
2. I got bored with XP, fed up with the way MS treats its users, disgusted with MS’ business ethics, and I didn’t want to throw away my current computer or hardware.
3. I installed Linux on my computer, Mandrake 9.0. It was nice, but not very useful to me at that time.
4. I sticked with Linux for >5 years. It became easier and easier so that now I’m using it (OpenSuSe 10.2) almost exclusively (except at work, meh…)
5. Happy End – but will they live long and happily ever after? – to be continued
Edited 2007-02-01 08:02
I guess were were fooled by the whole “read the whole story ? no thanks, I can guess from the url what the story will be…. ” We should have known a more recent edit means you red (edit) read the whole article.
Wonder why he didn’t use a ferrari laptop.
Edited 2007-02-01 14:32
Yes, you can run Vista this way on Mac (and Linux), but remember that your eye candy Aero is probably not coming along for the ride. The emulated video card will not be up to such 3D goodies.
I see it all the time, and it gets old. For the sake of sensationalism, the title is almost opposite of the content of the article.
The author did not really switch to Vista, he tried Vista and decided to stay with OSX.
I see it all the time, and it gets old. For the sake of sensationalism, the title is almost opposite of the content of the article.
The author did not really switch to Vista, he tried Vista and decided to stay with OSX.
The title is correct. It would be incorrect if it read “A Mac User Switched to Vista”.
Think about it. Grammar can be fun.
He mentions spell checking, but I don’t think he used it. My gawd, does’t anyone do proof reading anymore. That’s the second article I read today hosted on a major site that’s full of misspellings, etc.
<rant>
Listen up all who make your living writing: don’t just run spell check. It’s a computer program. It doesn’t understand that you typed “cook” instead of “book”. It’s speeled correctly, so it passes. Read what you write. You might learn something.
</rant>
Really Windows sucks, besides needing it to game I don’t like it that much. I have a reinstall (clean) just about a month old & it is already doing the classic windows slow downs. Why would a mac person be excited about windows?
Quick, someone get that poor soul to a de-programmer.
Hey,
The article was well written (as you would expect from a journalist).
The only thing I found totally misleading about the article was the title given presented on this site about a “Mac user switching to Vista”…
I am sorry, but it is that sensationalistic title that gives journalism a bad – bad name.
In fact – that isn’t what the article was about – it was about a Mac user trying out the new Vista operating system (as given to him by a MS Marketing machine – as well as the ZUNE) and then him critiquing the OS and then switching back to his Mac system. Why couldn’t the title have been “A Mac OS users perspective on Vista”.
It is that type of misleading journalism that gives the entire reputable cause of journalism a bad name.
Sensationalism sales (I am not naive) – just tired.
Teeps
I switched to OSX some years back, however am considering moving to Vista for one reason: As a long time software developer (from 6502->68000 asm, to c++ (my fave lang to the day) and .net/java for around 20 years in total across these technologies), I personally think developing on OSX is quite simply retarded. I have worked to port/rewrite a windows app I have written (it’s completely OO by the way) to mac and am quite simply apalled with objective-c and the inconsistent confusion between cocoa and carbon. Also the xcode + interface builder combination is both clumsy and confusing. As a coding addict I cannot stick with a platform I don’t enjoy at least tinkering with. Software development on Windows is simply decades ahead of the mac. On the mac you will generally find a bunch of poncy egotistical developers charging too much for their software. On Windows only the best will survive due to the competition.
Just by 2c worth, for my specific perspective. And yes I am a heavy parallels user, but if I am spending a majority of time in Parallels, well… that says something doesn’t it?
Edited 2007-02-02 11:36