Submitted by Normally Linux systems can only read from Windows NTFS partitions, but not write to them which can be very annoying if you have to work with Linux and Windows systems. This is where ntfs-3g comes into play. ntfs-3g is an open source, freely available NTFS driver for Linux with read and write support. This tutorial shows how to install and use ntfs-3g on a Ubuntu Edgy Eft desktop to read from and write to Windows NTFS drives and partitions. It covers the usage of internal NTFS partitions (e.g. in a dual-boot environment) and of external USB NTFS drives. Additionally, one more FS-related article (How To Resize ext3 Partitions Without Losing Data), and one Ubuntu (Why Ubuntu Is Number One).
NTFS Drives/Partitions in Ubuntu Edgy Eft and More
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Eugenia Loli
Ex-programmer, ex-editor in chief at OSNews.com, now a visual artist/filmmaker.
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1) How reliable is this?
2) Why is it not in the kernel?
From the website http://www.ntfs-3g.org/index.html
The driver currently is in BETA status, which means that no data corruption or loss has been reported during ordinary driver use, nor found in our extensive quality testing before release of the latest version, however we are aware of certain usability issues and driver limitations which are all documented and planned to be resolved in the future.
When it becomes clear that a huge, complex, feature rich and general purpose file system can not be as reliable and well-performing in hybrid space as purely in the kernel. At the moment there are no such strong indications.
First posts should not be asking questions…but making points about the subject
Perhaps he was being rhetorical?
Super! That has been a major barrier to using Linux more often for me. Using FAT32 for my 250gig HD is so gauche. 😉
why its not in the kernel? well.. because its using fuse – filesystem in userspace.. kindof not suited for kernel ;P
I think Ubuntu’s got it easy because the hardest work for the new linux user, using the command prompt, has been reduced to cutting and pasting commands from online tutorials.
I really think, Ubuntu, as an operating system is on par with a number of others, but it’s the sheer user support it gets that keeps it floating on top, at least for now. I think, for there to be a good “ubuntu killer”(take this lightheartedly), competing distros must really crank up the support(or rather the users of the distro must).
//I think Ubuntu’s got it easy because the hardest work for the new linux user, using the command prompt, has been reduced to cutting and pasting commands from online tutorials. //
In PCLinuxOS, you can install ntfs-3g from the Synaptic package manager. No need for tutorials or command lines at all.
You just install it, and then replace “ntfs” with “ntfs-3g” in the file /etc/fstab, where mounting of partitions at boot time is controlled.
I was just refering to the last article link, not to the NTFS support per se.
/* I think, for there to be a good “ubuntu killer”(take this lightheartedly), competing distros must really crank up the support(or rather the users of the distro must).*/
According to distrowatch, OpenSUSE linux is not far behind from ubuntu. 2007 might the year for Opensuse.
Edited 2007-01-08 05:34
That’s a good point of comparison, openSUSE as compared to Ubuntu. Both are decent enough distros, but as most who’ve used Debian for any extensive period of time, Ubuntu doesn’t really bring much fundamentally new and different to the table. It’s really just a somewhat polished desktop oriented debian derivative. The things most _new_ users will point to as it’s strengths (particularly its package management) are debian through and through. Importantly, in terms of doing stuff that’s moderately complex, I’ve found Ubuntu no easier than most other distros out there.
openSUSE on the other hand, now they actually do something other than rebranding other folks work. You’d think stuff like YaST and company would get more notice from the “it just works” camp of thinking. Easy tasks are still easy, and not so easy tasks become less cumbersome and daunting when you have the right tools at hand. (mind you, I’m well aware the SUSE folk have had some stinkers in there as well, the bustificated zmd stuff in 10.1 easily comes to mind…)
I think other posters largely got it right, it’s excellent marketing, a rather vocal user base (yes, this does get annoying for the rest of us…), and the availability of “copy and paste” wiki sites for Ubuntu that have made it what it is. Not to forget of course the solid Debian underpinning which really makes Ubuntu what it is.
I think Ubuntu’s got it easy because the hardest work for the new linux user, using the command prompt, has been reduced to cutting and pasting commands from online tutorials.
I really think, Ubuntu, as an operating system is on par with a number of others, but it’s the sheer user support it gets that keeps it floating on top, at least for now. I think, for there to be a good “ubuntu killer”(take this lightheartedly), competing distros must really crank up the support(or rather the users of the distro must).
I think Gentoo is there. I tried setting up MythTV on Ubuntu and ran into problems. I then tried it with Gentoo’s howto on their Wiki with no problems.
And for copying and pasting commands, you should look at Gentoo’s official docs and unofficial Wiki. Gentoo is usually the first to get howto’s for new things. I remember they were one of the first for XGL/Beryl/AIGLX, booting Linux on the new Intel Macs, booting Linux on an (original) Xbox, booting Linux on the new Efika boards, they even have a howto for getting that Looking Glass thing working.
I too find much more support and instructions on how-to do anything from building and using a cutting edge desktop that isn’t released yet to embedded system porting. With gentoo everything is within reach.
I think that the author of this article Why Ubuntu Is Number One misses a lot about why Ubuntu became the most popular distro. It is not just Shippit and marketing. I have been a Linux user for five years now and had some Unix experience dating back to when I was a grad student in the late eighties.
A year ago I was a moderately happy Mandrake/Mandriva user. Primarily now just wanting a home desktop that was easy to use and administer. Following the growing online interest in Ubuntu I ordered a copy of Hoary via Shipit. I played with the Live version on my system at home and some systems at work. It seemed quite nice but I had some problems with videocard support on some systems and the showstopper at home it would not print ot my HP PSC all-in-one. So I ordered Breezy when it came out, the hardware support was much better and it recognized my printer so installation was a maybe. Then my old Mandrake 10.1 just died it was irreparable it wouldn’t reinstall from the installation CD’s which were unable even to reformat the hard drive as a last resort.
So I installed Breezy and it just worked. I then ran EasyUbuntu and got all the multimeadia etc. working just the way I wanted. The experience converted me to being a committed Ubuntu user. By and large it just works. I have had the occasional minor problem but the online community support is so good that it is quickly resolved.
I upgraded to Dapper when it came out and found it gave performance improvements and I am still a happy user. I have not yet upgraded to Edgy yet as I am happy with Dapper LTS and it seems it has too few improvements to be worth the effort, after all it was released only four months after Dapper. I fully intend to upgrade toe Feisty in April probably buying a new system to take full advantage of it. I think it is experiences like mine that is responsible for the conversion of a very large number of existing Linux users to Ubuntu.
I agree that the community plays a huge factor in Ubuntu–but that does come from Ubuntu’s ease of use, because like Youtube, if it didn’t provide an inherent value of “easy Linux”, people wouldn’t use it. For instance this thread started in the Ubuntu forums a few months ago, about installing Ubuntu from Windows using a .exe file to make a loopback ext3, with no need for even restarting to boot into a CD (Talk about lazy
), and best part: NO PARTITIONING, probably the scariest thing about trying a Linux variety. http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-305109.html
Then we got this prototype for download. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/install.exe/Prototype I’m eager to test out on my other PC that is pretty much Windows only because of family. From what I see so far, you download the 1.35mb exe, double click, go through one page of settings and then it opens a bittorrent connection to download Ubuntu, and will hopefully install. I’m still waiting on the download right now…
And of course there’s the many utilities that Ubuntu users have coded in response to community demand or to scratch an itch (including Alacarte menu editor that was finally included in base Gnome 2.16 after being in Ubuntu for a while, Xorg-edit ( http://www.cyskat.de/dee/progxorg.htm ), etc.)
Edited 2007-01-07 20:51
1) http://www.ntfs-3g.org/quality.html Tells us what tests they do before releases. I’ve used it quite a bit and found it reliable, makeing the slow nightmare of captive ntfs a thing of the past, though of course it’s lacking ACL support.
2) It uses FUSE which is Filesystem in Userspace, though it was based on the userspace module ntfsmount. I don’t really know *why* they went this method though.
NTFS-3G is developed as FUSE filesystem just for one reason: It is much more easy to develop and debug a filesystem which basically works like a C program than one which works as a module in the kernel.
For example, if your FUSE filesystem dies (like a segfault
), this just corrupts the mountpoint. You can remount it. If it dies / does wrong stuff in the kernel, the whole kernel goes down, or often at least you have to reboot to completely fix it.
Ummm, with GParted, instead of dozen command line utilities?
What a great joke… is this the time where flames against Microsoft and Apple getting to poor… now we flame from one simple Distribution to another? Ubuntu is just another Debian Copy and ust another EndUser System. Ubuntu has absoloutly nothing great with give Users an *wow* I WANT TO SWITCH!!1! … Ubuntu is great Marketing and FUD… is this the next Windows?
“is this the time where flames against Microsoft and Apple getting to poor… now we flame from one simple Distribution to another?”
And this is exactly what you are doing.
If people want to share why they think ubuntu is great, i don’t know what’s wrong.
>>What a great joke… is this the time where flames against Microsoft and Apple getting to poor.<<
Excuse me, but WTF are you posting about? There are a lot of linux distros to chose from, this is just an article about why – in the author’s opinion – Ubuntu is so popular.
Normally Linux systems can only read from Windows NTFS partitions, but not write to them
Uh? This isn’t 100% true. Since 2.6.15 (a year ago) Linux can write to NTFS partitions, it “just” can’t create/delete files and/or directories and do mmap-base writes. It doesn’t do what ntfs-3g do but…
“it “just” can’t create/delete files and/or directories and do mmap-base writes”
It’s not really what you would expect from a read/write fs driver
.
It can write but only if it doesn’t change the size of a file AFAIK.
And READ the limitations of this.
Yes, it can read and write NTFS files – maybe 50% of the time.
The other 50% it “refuses to perform the action”.
WTF?
This is not usable if that is the case. I have not tested it yet precisely because I am not going to risk a Windows partition holding my OS to a tool that refuses to function 50% of the time.
Yes, they SAY that by doing this they avoid almost all possibility of corruption. That IS good.
What would be better is if it worked at least 90-98% of the time – not 50%.
When people report that they can copy and paste an entire directory of maybe 500 or a thousand image files between NTFS partitions with absolutely no problems CONSISTENTLY, then I’ll try it.
“And READ the limitations of this.”
Post your link. I have searched http://www.ntfs-3g.org/support.html#questions and found nothing.
Show me!!!!
Um, where do you see that?
I used ntfs-3g to extract several gigabytes of zip files to an NTFS partition the other week. No problem at all.
i’ve used ntfs-3g pretty much since its first public release on Kanotix (and now Sidux), and i’ve never experienced any serious problems with it. and i used it HEAVILY since my main data storage partition is in NTFS. it never “refused to perform the action” through all the large archive extractions and torrent downloads that i put it through. and not a single file corruption.
i only encountered a problem when i accidentally created a folder with a name ending with “.”, which Windows doesn’t like. going back to linux and renaming the folder solved the problem. also, during heavy read/write operations (such as with torrents), CPU usage can get pretty high sometimes.
AFAIK the only real limitation of ntfs-3g is that it doesn’t support compressed and/or encrypted ntfs wolumes.
The article discusses the NTFS-3G driver (http://www.ntfs-3g.org), not the Linux-NTFS one (http://www.linux-ntfs.org). You looked at and quoted from the wrong project.
I may have conflated the two projects with that specific item, but on the other hand look at the change history over the last couple of months. While he’s fixing bugs fast, there ARE SIGNIFICANT BUGS! No, thanks, I’ll wait until I see maintenance releases only.
Version 0.20070102-BETA:
* fix: writing large files could be very slow
* fix: writing several files at the same time could be very slow
* fix: writing at several places into a file at the same time could be very slow
* fix: invalid argument error when writing randomly into sparse files
Version 0.20061218-BETA:
* fix: heavy memory usage with sparse files (p2p, bittorrent client problems)
* fix: inode number wasn’t filled in the dirent structures (CVS, getcwd, gnulib problems)
* fix: 2-8% speed increase due to using pread/pwrite instead of lseek+read/write
* fix: fuse 2.6.x kernel module detection wasn’t reliable
Version 0.20061212-BETA:
* fix: directories were inaccessible on Windows if the cluster size was bigger than 4kB
* fix: static linking failed with FUSE 2.6.0
* fix: ‘make install’ failed if ldconfig wasn’t in the $PATH
* change: more verbose error reporting, explanations, hints for solutions
Version 0.20061115-BETA:
* fix: unmount was unsafe for removable devices
* fix: the code wasn’t endian safe
* fix: mount arguments were omitted on the 2nd fuse mount attempt
* new: FUSE 2.6.0 is required to ensure maximum reliability
* new: bmap() implemented: safe swap file support, LILO bootability
* change: the file system type is ‘fuseblk’ instead of ‘fuse’ for block devices
Version 0.20061031-BETA:
* fix: unmount was asynchronous; full fix requires FUSE 2.6.0 as well
* fix: mount was denied if $MFTMirr was too small
* fix: option parsing was incorrect if there was no space between name & argument
* change: new software versioning
2006.09.20
* fix: file creation at disk-full may lead to i/o errors
* fix: statistic of inodes and free inodes was incorrect (df -i)
* fix: the ‘umask’ option wasn’t always parsed as an octal number
* fix: “too long filename” handling wasn’t POSIX compliant
* fix: mount was denied if $MFTMirr had unused garbage at the file end
2006.09.10
* fix: rename was always denied if the target file or directory existed
* fix: renaming like ‘foo’ -> ‘FOO’ was denied in the WIN32 namespace
* fix: fuse kernel module is automatically loaded, no need for config
* fix: verbose mount error messages with hints for solutions
* fix: compilation failed with gcc 2.96
* change: top request: full read-write access to everybody by default
* change: file lookups are always case-sensitive
2006.08.22
* fix: case-insensitive directory rename to itself may failed
* fix: some regular files weren’t accessible on Linux
* fix: files created on Linux may not had enough permissions on Windows
2006.08.11
* fix: directory couldn’t be renamed if it had both WIN32 and DOS name
* fix: collision with ntfsprogs header files
2006.08.03
* fix: improved large file write performance
* fix: better consistency if NTFS wasn’t cleanly unmounted
* fix: write(2) may created holes
* fix: show mounted device names instead of /dev/fuse
2006.07.14
* first ntfs-3g BETA release
Ubuntu is number 1…but it has little to do with any of the points in the article. I would say that all of the points are covered better by other distributions.
Having tried several Distributions. *I* find the differences quite small. The real differences are GTK+ or QT or which file manager I use. For me its the applications I choose to install. The only other thing I *could* find as a real difference is the package manager. Linux is Linux, X is X, Bash is Bash.
The reality of Ubuntu is that mainly due to marketing its attracted a *New* Linux user. Basically someone looking for a new windows, and has found it pretty good, because Linux+X+WM+Free Apps is pretty good, but more than that Ubuntu has pandered to these new Linux converts…partially done drivers, binary drivers, unstable packages. The ideology(sic) of Ubuntu is to get gain marketshare as rapidly as possible, and its working.
Someone please put this better.
Gladly.
Embrace and Extend. Seriously. Ubuntu didn’t get where it is by sticking to religious ideals. They did things that cater best to Windows users, and reached out with those (the embrace part). Then, they make it better and easier to where you don’t want to do it any other way (extend).
Nothing different than MS has done with any of their major ventures (Xbox the most recent). Not to say it’s a bad way of doing business either.
Full disclosure: this comment typed in Konqueror on Kubuntu 6.10, and I wouldn’t have it any other way.
I don’t know where you got your info from, but I tried various distroes and even FreeBSD and I can calmly say that for me Ubuntu is the most stable, yet, most cutting edge one. Deadly combo eh?
The thing is, they do bring new stuff in happily, but test them properly (most other distroes don’t have the manpower to do so) which means no matter how new, they “just work” with the rest. Of course there is breakage here and there but it’s much rarer than with arch, freeBSD or even debian unstable (comparing other debians isn’t worth it since they are too slow moving).
It’s this and ease of package management which keeps me on ubuntu (I’d rather be on freeBSD because it has so nicer base, but ports suck especially lately with all the X11R6, python25 and other f-ups + I don’t want to waste CPU on compilation when I need new stuff)
http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS7895189911.html
http://radar.oreilly.com/archives/2006/12/binary_drivers.html
etc etc pick a search engine.
You can spot an Ubuntu user a mile away, they say things like BSD, Just Work, Practical, with little understanding of issues either idealogical or technical.
I haven’t a good word to say about Ubuntu or its users. Cards on the table I think its poor compared to other distributions, and attracts an Anti-GPL crowd that are misguided enough to believe that their world would be better without it.
I care about stability, Open-source drivers, Love GPL3, support hardware vendors that have open source drivers, know the difference between CC vs BSD vs GPL vs Other and the benefits of each, understand DRM, Open-formats etc…but I’m well aware that for every one of me there are 1000’s!? that don’t, and Ubuntu is for them, and its a winner.
Its not *perceived* a loser OS for zealots and geeks. Its a mainstream Linux for the average user. Ubuntu crossed the divide, and for that it is the Number #1 Distribution, and rightfully so.
but seriously its not that different from any *insert name here* distribution.
Edited 2007-01-08 10:33
As I pointed out earlier in this thread:
http://www.osnews.com/permalink.php?news_id=16883&comment_id=199355
I think it is experiences like mine that is responsible for the conversion of a very large number of existing Linux users to Ubuntu.
many Ubuntu users are are Linux users with various amounts of experience that have switched to Ubuntu. One of the advantages that make Ubuntu such a good distribution to use is the community support. This support is not primarily coming from Canonical employees but mostly from experienced Linux users who now use Ubuntu as their distribution.
I too: care about stability, Open-source drivers, Love GPL3, support hardware vendors that have open source drivers, know the difference between CC vs BSD vs GPL vs Other and the benefits of each, understand DRM, Open-formats etc…
Which is why when I buy my next system specifically to run Feisty on, I will be purchasing one with an Intel motherboard and their on board graphics chipset so I can run all the new 3D goodies with a free video driver. The decision about inclusion of binary drivers by default for some videocards is a complex one, but I for one am prepared to wait and see how it plays out. I think it is only fair to include Mark Shuttleworths views here:
http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/84
I always use the term it just works because of the smug superior tone Mac OSX fans take when they use it. I feel that it is time to turn it back in their face as we now have a Linux distro that by and large just works.
We may be too dumb to install Debian but we are not all simple Windows converts.
I’m not sure what your point is. I think your an excellent example of an Ubuntu user. Part time linux user.
“but I had some problems with videocard support on some systems and the showstopper at home it would not print ot my HP PSC all-in-one.”
You clearly didn’t buy either hardware with Open-source drivers in mind and yet claim to be a long time convert. Its the tail wagging the dog.
The ubuntu stuff extends further than a couple of binary drivers, have a look at some of the fendora blogs.
Their is nothing to be ashamed of being, by being an Ubuntu user. One of things about Linux is the choice, and I believe that people generally move towards a distribution that *suits* them for a multitude of reasons.
Off topic
=========
Mac users have a lot to be smug about having good MAC hardware compatibility, but they pay a premium for it.
Yes an excellent example of not listening to what I had to say:
“but I had some problems with videocard support on some systems and the showstopper at home it would not print ot my HP PSC all-in-one.”
You clearly didn’t buy either hardware with Open-source drivers in mind and yet claim to be a long time convert. Its the tail wagging the dog.
The videocard problems were on work systems which I had not chosen and which Hoary claimed to support. While my HP PSC printer had been specifically chosen for its open drivers and good Linux support. So much for your understanding of what I wrote and knowledge of what printers are well supported for Linux.
What I object to is the emergence of snide ill argued attacks on the distro and its users just because it has become popular.
The ubuntu stuff extends further than a couple of binary drivers, have a look at some of the fendora blogs.
What fendora blogs (sic) – what “stuff” and URL’s please.
Stop the unsubstantiated innuendo. Enough of this idiocy !
Edited 2007-01-08 20:18
You can also try out NTFS-3G on the new Knoppix release (out for some days now).
Or use ArchLinux and just do: pacman -S ntfs-3g
Edited 2007-01-08 00:11
NTFS-3G requires FUSE >= 2.6 for safe functioning with removable drives, something to do with FUSE 2.5 only having async unmounts, IIRC. However, Ubuntu only has FUSE 2.5.3. Are there any good FUSE 2.6.x packages for Edgy?