Submitted by In the seven weeks since Microsoft and Novell announced their controversial interoperability and patent protection agreement, Redmond has handed out some 16000 subscription certificates for SUSE Linux Enterprise Server. Redmond is also trumpeting the fact that several of its existing enterprise customers – such as Deutsche Bank AG, Credit Suisse and AIG Technologies – are among the first to take advantage of these certificates and the interoperability between Windows Server and SUSE Linux.
that microsoft is on our side now. For years I’ve wondered if Linux would ever make it to the mainstream. For sure and without a second thought, we have arrived. Total domination is ours, and the dark side is pushing the cart now. Where do I get my certificate? /sarcasm off/
I’m not a lawyer (thank God, I hate paperwork), just a shmuck who likes to fart around with different OS’s, so I don’t care about Ip’s. But anything that limit’s my fun time is annoying, and the threat of legal action is getting old already. Microsoft is being more than a little greedy here, how many Billions is enough? Would any amount of competition be a bad thing? Or is total domination not enough?
As old as man itself, is the constant craving to be “THE” biggest, most powerful, strongest, most dominent, at whatever it is we do. For heavens sake, would whoever beat the crap outta Bill please apologize to the fella, so we can carry on having fun!
Given that Microsoft is taking market share and customers away from Novell, and Novell’s CEO has admitted it, can anyone give a good business reason as to why Microsoft would want to sell Novell’s own distribution? The answer is, there isn’t, apart from the ulterior motives already discussed. It should also be noted that Novell is actually paying royalties to Microsoft for those SLES licenses.
Hovsepian basically sold his company for a measly few hundred million, and Microsoft moved a bit closer towards what they always wanted – a distinction between the free distributions and open source community and a licensed version of Linux blessed by them.
I’m also not getting this interoperability thing in any way shape or form; probably because it doesn’t exist. There was nothing in the current version of SLE that was written in any way with the help of Microsoft, Microsoft is not moving towards using ODF, Microsoft contributed no code towards Samba (and has actively slapped down some Microsoft engineers who’ve tried to help in the past) and has done nothing about virtualising Windows under Linux.
Hovsepian said in an interview that interoperability and virtualisation was a problem, and they lost customers to Microsoft because of it (hey, Microsoft is going to help Novell win customers back!), but I see nothing that Microsoft is helping with. We, and Novell, have had the option of VMware for years, and Xen will run Windows – it’s just that it can’t do it without the aid of some hardware, which is coming along. Novell should just have done a deal with VMware for the time being. Can anyone point to some projects Microsoft has started and some code Microsoft has contributed to make this famed interoperability happen?
If not, then Novell got absolutely nothing out of this deal.
Edited 2006-12-21 13:09
Well said!
Other people have already stated this statement but I will do it again. If Microsoft truly wants anybody to interoperate with them, all they have to do is publish their file formats and protocols. The fact that they aren’t doing this shows that they don’t have much interest in others having support for MS products (and vice versa).
“Novell should just have done a deal with VMware for the time being. Can anyone point to some projects Microsoft has started and some code Microsoft has contributed to make this famed interoperability happen?”
That would have been basically the same thing. VMWare is owned by EMC. EMC is an exclusive Microsoft Partner and works with them directly on all of EMC’s storage solutions, including having the main lab in redmond these days. Don’t kid yourself and think that any of these major IT companies don’t have dealings with Microsoft on the same type of level. The Novell deal was sensationalized is all, it is nothing new for companies to have these kinds of agreements.
VMWare is owned by EMC. EMC is an exclusive Microsoft Partner and works with them directly on all of EMC’s storage solutions, including having the main lab in redmond these days. Don’t kid yourself and think that any of these major IT companies don’t have dealings with Microsoft on the same type of level. The Novell deal was sensationalized is all, it is nothing new for companies to have these kinds of agreements.
AFAIK, VMware isn’t violating the GPL or spreading FUD about MS IP violations.
“AFAIK, VMware isn’t violating the GPL or spreading FUD about MS IP violations.”
Well, neither is Novell. Microsoft has not filed any paperwork stating that Linux infringes any patents, nor made any official statements. If they have I will be more then happy to be corrected, I just have not seen any. There has only been the rantings of Balmer, in unofficial forums, who is a twit, and no one takes seriously.
There has only been the rantings of Balmer, in unofficial forums, who is a twit, and no one takes seriously.
Well, I would love to think that people don’t take “twits” like Ballmer seriously. But I think more people take him seriously than you think. Ballmer isn’t playing to the crowd who’ve watched MS treat the competition and partners with contempt for years; he’s playing to a crowd who only care about the bottom line.
That would have been basically the same thing.
No it wouldn’t, and any suggestion it would is just grasping at straws to try and make Novell’s deal with Microsoft not to look as bad as it really is.
EMC is an exclusive Microsoft Partner
And? Lots of companies are Microsoft partners, but the fact is that VMware is a competitor to Microsoft and has actually worked to virtualise Windows amongst various other things on Linux – something Microsoft has no plans to do, and will never do.
The Novell deal was sensationalized is all, it is nothing new for companies to have these kinds of agreements.
It most certainly is new to sign th deal that Novell did. What basically happened there is that they’ve sold their business to their nearest competitor and has given Microsoft exactly the perception they want to create over open source software.
Edited 2006-12-22 12:46
It most certainly is new to sign th deal that Novell did. What basically happened there is that they’ve sold their business to their nearest competitor and has given Microsoft exactly the perception they want to create over open source software.
But who’s perception? The blogosphere and open source user community? Unfortunately, they’re a drop in the bucket when compared to paying customers. Many of those customers have no perception of Linux or open source software in general, in fact, it’s probably not even on their map. Novell is banking on the Microsoft ties bringing validity to their Linux offering.
And no, Novell did not sell their business. When Novell drops all their product lines which directly compete with Microsoft’s, then yes, I’ll agree. Until then, try to stick with facts.
Unfortunately, they’re a drop in the bucket when compared to paying customers.
They’re creating that impression specifically for paying customers.
Many of those customers have no perception of Linux or open source software in general, in fact, it’s probably not even on their map.
Many of them will have heard of Linux, some won’t, but Microsoft wants to get the message over to those people who are not confident that there is a Linux distro blessed by them that is safe and all the freely available software isn’t.
Novell has helped them to do that, ultimately hurting themselves.
Novell is banking on the Microsoft ties bringing validity to their Linux offering.
Like that’s going to work. So they’re banking on ties to their closest competitor, who is taking customers and money away from them, and is putting them in real trouble? Great thinking. That’s a really, really desperate thing to do.
The only validity they can bring to their Linux offering is to seriously improve their software, get some people in charge who know the technology and know what they’re doing and seriously improve their marketing and their sales. When your Chief Technology Office, someone who is supposed to know his stuff and his market, talks like this:
http://www.novell.com/ctoblog/?p=35
You know you’re in trouble.
Running crying to Microsoft because you don’t know how to run your business is not exactly a good sign.
And no, Novell did not sell their business.
The fact is that money changed hands, Novell gets absolutely nothing out of this deal while Microsoft gets what they wanted – and Novell initiated this deal because they’re desperate and are losing customers. Go figure.
Hovsepian is desperate and, quite clearly doesn’t know what to do to turn things around. Like it or not, Novell sold themselves into the clutches of their primary competitor, and the funny part is they may not have even realised it.
Arguing that the end will only happen when Novell drops their products is like arguing that the Titanic is only sinking when you see it go under the water’s surface – despite the gaping hole and it being upright in the water.
Edited 2006-12-22 17:40
> Like it or not, Novell sold themselves into the
> clutches of their primary competitor, and the funny
> part is they may not have even realised it.
This has been Novell’s strategy with Microsoft for years. They’re destined to lose to them, again and again.
Many of them will have heard of Linux, some won’t, but Microsoft wants to get the message over to those people who are not confident that there is a Linux distro blessed by them that is safe and all the freely available software isn’t.
Novell has helped them to do that, ultimately hurting themselves.
Businesses and organizations don’t use software because it’s freely available or not. They generally don’t care about the perceived freedom of software. They use certain software because it works within the degree of not impacting day to day operations in a negative way and helping to support those day to day operations. Even freely available software costs money. What freely available software does not have licensing and support fees that any large company would seriously consider deploying? Postfix is great, but it’s not the total package that GroupWise or Exchange are and it’s not supported from what I understand. This is a different mentality from getting Linux and firefox running on a relatives computer. I don’t see how it’s hurting themselves. It’s indicative of Novell’s utter failings at selling their own products, but that’s a whole different post.
Running crying to Microsoft because you don’t know how to run your business is not exactly a good sign.
They didn’t run and cry to Microsoft. They’re trying to use Microsoft to prop themselves up. That again, is because of other failings. So I agree to a point, that’s not a good sign.
The fact is that money changed hands, Novell gets absolutely nothing out of this deal while Microsoft gets what they wanted – and Novell initiated this deal because they’re desperate and are losing customers. Go figure.
Well just like you said, Novell did get money, so that kind of blows your idea that they didn’t get anything. You contradicted your own point in a single sentence. Novell also has a chance to get SLES into the hands of people who otherwise wouldn’t give a rats arse, like I said previously.
Arguing that the end will only happen when Novell drops their products is like arguing that the Titanic is only sinking when you see it go under the water’s surface – despite the gaping hole and it being upright in the water.
Novell lost its leading player tag in the server room a decade ago. If they had a hole in the side of their boat, it has had it for some time and this deal with Microsoft isn’t a big deal. I’m not sure how you can infer that Novell sold itself to Microsoft when they still produce products that compete with Microsoft. I have yet to see Novell drop any products which compete with Microsoft since the deal was announced(and no Hula does not count).
Novell has some serious management, marketing, and PR issues. If this Microsoft deal helps to do the job of their flagging abilities to promote their own products, then good for them. They still have things they need to fix, because if they were working, this deal would have never happened. So again, this deal is indicative of problems at Novell but not a major issue at this point in an of itself.
McSoft is doing what it does best … screw others and demand money for the privilege. McSoft is a Mafioso of the software world. Now it’s demanding protection money so it doesn’t `break` others off at the knees or execute them for failure to comply. Wake up.
What is the actual number? A few out of thousand?
Edited 2006-12-21 14:18
Maybe those certificates will match the stock option wallpaper in the bathroom.
Microsoft forgives all those IP thieving hackers who repent and sign on the dotted line. To further prove their benevolence, and to show that MS is not an evil monoply, they graciously give subscription certificates and coupons. Interoperability will be the greatest gift to their Open Souce prodigal children, just adopt OpenXML and see the error of your ways. OpenDoc is nice, but it can never be as good, don’t you see?
Now we can all go beat up on Apple together for not allowing OS X to run on any old PC. Steve should have listened to Bill all those years ago…..
Thankyou Novell, for showing us the way. With adequate lubrication there is not too much pain.
16000 lawsuits – waiting to happen in five years.
You could say they are just serving the papers a bit early. Identifying the customers they plan to sue.
Would you mind to explain who is going to sue whom ?
DG
I’m actually taken by the fact that there’s, apparently, 16,000 companies running SUSE server.
I guess Ballmer really does know what he’s doing….except for the whole “I’m going to kill Google!!” comment.
Microsoft’s Mission Statement: “We release a better product….one lawsuit at a time.”
I’m not entirely sure how this all shakes out in the end, but I don’t see it as a bad thing from a business standpoint for Novell at the moment. Novell needs to get Suse Linux Enterprise Server/Desktop into the hands of people who will deploy it into large networks. Whether we like to admit it or not, Microsoft is the major player in the data center and going against them is an uphill battle to say the least. Microsoft only shops are reluctant to try new things. Many of you might not understand the mentality of an IT manager, but best of breed isn’t always the top consideration when picking technologies. There is security, job security, in going with Microsoft in the data center. This might help Novell’s way back into those shops due to the comfort with the Microsoft brand. This whole thing might actually backfire in Microsoft’s face in SLE catches on.
Microsoft clearly wants to throttle Linux. It’s a competitor. I don’t see one company that would support a competitor without a motive to control it in some aspect or another. However, they won’t be able to control Linux or open source in general, which some fear. They might be able to throttle the uptake in the server room for some time, but even that will pass. Novell might be the firm that benefits from this partnership, then breaks that perceived “control”. Novell is taking a gamble, but in all fairness, as a company they needed to do something.
This is where the relationship between the open source community and software companies gets weird. Companies who support open source mostly do it for their own good. Novell got on board with Suse because NetWare was and is at end of life and they needed a new server OS. Sun is going to GPL Solaris and Java because both risked becoming irrelevant. Even RedHat is careful to stick with their open source principals, not because the executives and board all truly believe in the GPL, but because it’s how their bread is buttered. The open source community has more of a utopian view than the utilitarian view of the businesses. That’s why one day Sun is public enemy #2, and now is considered a white knight with their open source additions.
Novell made a business decision that resulted in a PR nightmare in relation to the open source community. Whether they understood the repercussions in that aspect before hand or not is unknown. I’m willing to wait a while to reserve my judgment.
From a personal standpoint, I hope this works for Novell and doesn’t impact on their product lines in a negative way. The day I have to start admining stodgy Active Directory and its idiotic domain controller setup instead of my lovely, flexible, and self healing eDirectory, shoot me.
Edited 2006-12-21 16:18
I posted before I read this:
http://linux.slashdot.org/linux/06/12/21/167258.shtml
This might change my stance a bit.
These 16,000 certificates are just pieces of paper. Presumably they have to be claimed by going through some formal encashment procedure. The article fails to tell us how many of these certificates have turned into real editions of SuSE running on real computers. Otherwise, Microsoft could easily “hand them out” down a manhole cover and thus preserve its sales of Windows.
And as someone else points out, this “interoperability” thing is fascinating since it doesn’t seem to exist. Show us the code, Ron!
I would be surprised if Microsoft will ever support interoperability with Solaris, HP-UX or a BSD. The reason they can use this trick with linux is so that shops who currently use HP-UX, or Solaris and were thinking about making a Linux cost-saving plunge would quickly find out that Linux truely is an inferior server product to HP and Sun as well as Microsoft’s own server products.
But since half the equation is the Windows side of the house, the Linux infestation that will go away will make room to grow the Microsoft side of the house in terms of hardware and administration costs.
I would be surprised if Microsoft will ever support interoperability with Solaris, HP-UX or a BSD.
There was a contract between SUN and Microsoft that covers some introperability issues.
I know that there is a thing called ‘Rotor’, a .Net implementation for BSD and Mac, released as shared source. I think it is some kind of interoperability.
Linux truely is an inferior server product
Next year I will probably enter Microsoft Partner program. As a part of a program I will receive a copy of 2003 R2 server at discont price. I have checked the data sheet. There are some features that lack in Linux servers, but they are not required by everybody. On the other hand, there is no licensing cost, and support can be obtained at lower prices if you don’t go to major players, like Red Hat. As a consequence of Microsoft-Novell deal, you could probably even get Linux support from Microsoft, if you like it.
I am not saying that because I am defending Linux. Linux is not my platform of choice. I am just considering the facts without bias.
DG
Still the name of the game is market dominance. These certificates seem to show on the surface that Microsoft wants to show good faith with those who run both a unix and Windows shop. One thing Microsoft can bet on, is that they will be able to show how much cheaper a complete Windows solution would be over linux due to internal support costs.
I would not be too surprised that all those receiving certificates will also eventually receive migration papers and toolkits as well.
Personally, I am ripping the benefits of the interoperability on daily basis. Also, one can never have too many certificates.
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The deal they (Microsoft & Novell) made allows both companies to sell, deploy and support mixed (Windows & Linux) solutions and solutions in a mixed environments. Mr. Balmer said couple of times in the past that customer demanded that.
That is very logical from business standpoint. I am glad that both companies overcame ideological issues they had in the past.
DG
I don’t like this at all.
This is nothing more than a robbery. Whoever bought the Extortion certificates are mindless simpletons. Microsoft and Novell have violated the GPL, time to make them pay.