The holiday season hasn’t gone exactly as Microsoft had hoped and Ballmer sits down with CNET News.com to discuss life after Vista, battling the iPod, and the rising importance of mobile devices.
Ballmer Discusses Life After Vista
About The Author
Eugenia Loli
Ex-programmer, ex-editor in chief at OSNews.com, now a visual artist/filmmaker.
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I found it somewhat interesting that Ballmer mentions that they’re having to decide how many people are going to work on the next version of Windows, and where they’re going to work… that, plus the ‘more releases on shorter timescales’ bit seems to confirm what I was reading here from time to time about Microsoft changing their development model after the problem they had getting Vista working and finished.
“innovation”, lets hope they can come up with some new ideas because Vista lacks innovation.
I guess Steve’s version of innovation is what other OS’s have had for years.
You can say that about any current OS, because, if you really try, you can claim mainframes had ‘these features’ in the 60s… because a lot of the current buzzwords were in use then. Like hardware virtualization etc…
Yes, but how many other vendors claim that their new stuff is “innovation”?
Er … Apple?
And how many times have you heard me defend overpriced-Apple?
That would be zero, I think.
>I guess Steve’s version of innovation is what other >OS’s have had for years.
yeah and Linux still doesn’t have half of the features as Vista. Well, maybe in 2012 they will finally catch up.
//yeah and Linux still doesn’t have half of the features as Vista.//
You may have a point.
Linux misses out on DRM, WGA, product keys, license keys, time-limited software, activation, EULAs, most of the security holes, proprietary lock-in and a whole raft of malware.
//Well, maybe in 2012 they will finally catch up.//
I sincerely hope not.
Edited 2006-12-08 05:46
Linux misses out on DRM, WGA, product keys, license keys, time-limited software, activation, EULAs, most of the security holes …
I think open source has its share of security holes. Certainly Firefox does.
DRM is sort of security blanket for companies who want to let you download movies like the XBOX 360 allows now.
But I think the person was talking about some of these features:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Features_new_to_Windows_Vista
//DRM is sort of security blanket for companies who want to let you download movies like the XBOX 360 allows now. //
No. DRM is a whole lot of big corporations trying to dictate what you can and cannot do with your own machine. hen the talk of “Digital Rights” … they don’t mean your rights.
It underlies the whole point of you not owning the software, and therefore not really owning your own machine. Very unappealing.
//Web content blocking.
File downloads may also be disabled.
Time limitations on when the account may be used
Restrictions on what kind of games may be played.//
Another long list of “you may not do”.
Lots of things Vista doesn’t do here, aren’t there?
//Activity reports to monitor what was done under Parental Controls
Ability to log actions such as Instant Messaging conversations //
My oh my, how very Big-Brother-like.
I think the kids are probably just going to plug in a Linux Live CD and be done with all that nonsense.
Edited 2006-12-08 05:58
No. DRM is a whole lot of big corporations trying to dictate what you can and cannot do with your own machine.
A lot of big corporations including Pixar and Apple (who always to get a bye when this is discussed) who are afraid of rampant piracy.
Those companies own the movies and songs. Those companies want Apple and Microsoft to have secure DRM. To blame it all on Microsft is downright silly.
Another long list of “you may not do”.
Lots of things Vista doesn’t do here, aren’t there?
Lots of features parents want.
My oh my, how very Big-Brother-like.
No. Mom and Dad like. To keep predators away from kids.
think the kids are probably just going to plug in a Linux Live CD and be done with all that nonsense.
The predators will be happy if that happens.
think the kids are probably just going to plug in a Linux Live CD and be done with all that nonsense.
The predators will be happy if that happens.
LOL. This makes me think of Congress, pushing through various bills that would have gotten them laughed out of the US except for the “help fight terrorists/child predators” tagline that is always attached to them. Your response is almost exactly like the “a vote for democrats is like a vote for the terrorists” line that was recently trotted out.
I have mixed feelings about the MS DRM stuff. MS is just an enabler, not like the drug dealing MPAA/RIAA, but they have been quite inventive coming up with reasons why it is a good thing not to have actual control over your own machine. Just don’t worry your pretty little head by thinking, relax and do what we tell you to do and everything will turn out just fine. Good boy!
LOL. This makes me think of Congress, pushing through various bills that would have gotten them laughed out of the US except for the “help fight terrorists/child predators” tagline that is always attached to them. Your response is almost exactly like the “a vote for democrats is like a vote for the terrorists” line that was recently trotted out.
Giving parents the ability to keep their chidren safe on the internet is not something to be mocked.
I suspect you wouldn’t care if it was Apple or RedHat doing it … but because its Microsoft giving parents the choice you seem to hate it.
Features allow for choice. What do you have against choice? The features aren’t mandatory.
Edited 2006-12-08 06:50
Giving parents the ability to keep their chidren safe on the internet is not something to be mocked.
I suspect you wouldn’t care if it was Apple or RedHat doing it … but because its Microsoft giving parents the choice you seem to hate it.
To be clear, I was mocking you and Congress, not the features… As I said, I have mixed feelings about the MS DRM features. The parental controls seem like they could be a good thing in many instances, but on the other hand if you are relying on them I think that means you aren’t a very good parent in the first place. Whatever happened to parents getting involved in their childrens lives and teaching them how to look out for themselves? This seems like an easy way out for parents trying to ignore their children. But as I said, I can certainly see the upside as well. And yes, I’d feel exactly the same if Apple or RedHat was doing it.
Edited to add:
Perhaps I should mention that I’m not a parent myself, and therefore I’m not completely sure what my views would be if I actually were one. But I’d like to think they wouldn’t change any.
Edited 2006-12-08 07:01
“Giving parents the ability to keep their children safe on the internet is not something to be mocked.”
Alternatively you can just be a good parent and give a shit about your kids. Really. That works better than failed concepts like “web filtering” and big brother-like surveillance.
Alternatively you can just be a good parent and give a shit about your kids. Really. That works better than failed concepts like “web filtering” and big brother-like surveillance.
How rude to imply that using Microsofts parental controls means you are a bad parent! Thats a deranged kind of thinking.
Because protecting your children from arbitrary glyph permutations is so effective… Such features are nothing more than security blankets for the clueless.
“How rude to imply that using Microsofts parental controls means you are a bad parent!”
Don’t put words in my mouth or make a strawman’s argument, that’s not what I said.
I’m against most kinds of “parental control” no matter what OS it’s on, since most of them are utterly pointless and only adds a false sense of security.
And yes, I am a parent.
Giving parents the ability to keep their chidren safe on the internet is not something to be mocked.
We already have that, its called parenting and is vastly superior to any technological solution. It involves taking an active interest in your children’s lives rather than using a piece of software to do it.
Edited 2006-12-08 10:39
Indeed. However, many people cannot always be home when their children are and it makes it a bit difficult for them to monitor their internet activities.
There are a lot of options that allow you to get around this, like setting a boot password that your child doesn’t know, setting up your router so that internet access is only available during certain time periods, etc., but of course there are ways to circumvent these methods.
In the end, talking to your child and explaining the dangers inherent in certain kinds of behavior is still probably the best approach. If someone wants to further insulate their children from those dangers, having parental control software and internet content filters available is a good thing for them.
No. Mom and Dad like. To keep predators away from kids.
I hate to break it to you, but even if Microsoft or Apple were my parents, some people are actually capable of bringing their kids up to look after themselves and act responsibly.
To no-one in particular: Why is it that people who wouldn’t accept Congress or Parliament poking their noses into other people’s business are so happy about private corporations like Microsoft doing it?
A lot of big corporations including Pixar and Apple (who always to get a bye when this is discussed) who are afraid of rampant piracy.
Ssdly, that is very true, but it certainly isn’t the worse example.
I remember when I first heard about the WGA; I was all set to join the unwashed masses, venting their collective spleen all over the internet.
Then I remembered that I have been a happy iTunes user for years.
Now there’s a system that:
1/. Requires you to register your machine when you start using the music store.
2/. Requires you to de-register when you get rid of the machine.
2/. But does allow you to de-register all your machines a couple of times a year, if you happen to lose your PC
So it strikes me that just like Microsoft, Apple must be keeping track of what machines you own, on a central database somewhere.
… but unlike Microsoft, no=-one gets upset about it.
Apple doesn’t have a monopoly, even in music downloads.
I’ve been successfully avoiding iTunes for years, all the while enjoying music.
I’ve been successfully using Linux for years, but still can’t avoid Windows.
“I’ve been successfully using Linux for years, but still can’t avoid Windows.”
True enough for a few of us. Windows is still a requirement. That is not do to any fault of Linux, or even Microsoft, but rather the third party software companies such as adobe, that will not port their applications to Linux. That is all that is needed for Linux to take off.
I think Apple and Pixar are 10x worse. Vista comes with a DVR (perfect for light pirating amd misuse) in the box. Apple doesn’t do that because Jobs has a large stake in Pixar and Disney.
People bitched when Microsoft changed there EULA to ban virtualization of certian version of Vista but Apple doesn’t allow virtualization of OS X at all.
People here are crying about DRM and TPM chips while the only company using it in the consumer sector to do all those things you guys are so paranoid about is Apple. OS X won’t even run on anything but a Mac without some serious hacking. That’s why apple doesn’t have their version of WGA… it’s built into their OS.
Microsoft and its partners have been shipping DVD quality (and now HD quality) downloadable movies for years and Apple is only at 640×480 because of Disney and Pixar.
Most of you guys are climbing up the wrong tree when you should be looking at Apple.
I think Apple and Pixar are 10x worse. Vista comes with a DVR (perfect for light pirating amd misuse) in the box. Apple doesn’t do that because Jobs has a large stake in Pixar and Disney.
Apple doesn’t do that as they have no interest in doing that at the moment, but there are plenty of 3rd party software
People bitched when Microsoft changed there EULA to ban virtualization of certian version of Vista but Apple doesn’t allow virtualization of OS X at all.
The difference is that Mac OSX is designed to only run on Apple computers, there has never been an option to do this. Microsoft offer virtualisation and then start cutting back and force users to pay for versions of windows they don’t need.
People here are crying about DRM and TPM chips while the only company using it in the consumer sector to do all those things you guys are so paranoid about is Apple. OS X won’t even run on anything but a Mac without some serious hacking. That’s why apple doesn’t have their version of WGA… it’s built into their OS.
There is no version of WGA in Mac OSX, my mac system has never asked if it’s geniune, it’s never had to check that it’s genuine to download software from the apple site. Mac OSX was designed purely for use with apple computers, think of it as an embedded OS, it was never meant to run apart from the hardware.
Microsoft and its partners have been shipping DVD quality (and now HD quality) downloadable movies for years and Apple is only at 640×480 because of Disney and Pixar.
Sorry i must have missed the link to the downloadable movies as we don’t have them in the UK and ive never seen HD movies to download on any web site.
640×480 is the optimum screen size for the iPod which is what the movies are meant for.
Most of you guys are climbing up the wrong tree when you should be looking at Apple.
This article is about Microsoft
“think the kids are probably just going to plug in a Linux Live CD and be done with all that nonsense.”
The predators will be happy if that happens.
This is a new low for you NotParker, trying to link Linux and child abuse.
What next, Linux users are terrorists? Linux causes cancer? (We already know from Ballmer that it *was* one…)
Parental control software has existed for a while…this is just another example of Microsoft using predatory monopolist tactics to take over new markets. Got to keep those stockholders happy! After all, Microsoft’s stock, after hitting an historical high in 2000, has fallen back to half that value and has stagnated there for a couple of years now (with a big dip in May of this year and a slow recovery since then).
Gotta keep that money flowin’!
This is a new low for you NotParker, trying to link Linux and child abuse.
Coming from a pervert who asks people to “suck it” thats not very funny actually.
You knw whats really pathetic is that I brought parental controls up as an option for parents in Vista.
Immediately someone from the cult chimes in and says that idea will be stolen and implimented in Linux in 6 to 8 months.
Then some cultists claims parent controls are equivalent to apartheid.
Then I’m attacked for being Stalin!
Then someone offers tips to kids on how to bypass parental controls.
The cultists are out of their minds!
Edited 2006-12-08 17:43
who are afraid of rampant piracy.
I can sympathise with that. However history shows us that the pirates will get around the DRM quickly (either by technical means, or be re-recording) and then the Anti-Piracy techniques will only server to annoy the honest user.
To keep predators away from kids.
Do you know how statistically improbable it is for ones kids to be ‘corrupted’/’attacked’ by predators? Ever crossed a road?
In fact, it is far more likely for a child to be molested by a family friend/member than a stranger. Perhaps parents should lock all family and friends out of their house once they give birth?
Of course, in your world of cultist stalkers, this may not seem true. But it is.
Stephen
Do you know how statistically improbable it is for ones kids to be ‘corrupted’/’attacked’ by predators?
Chat rooms and online predators go hand in hand.
http://www.nap.edu/netsafekids/how_chat.html
That’s not a reply to the statement. I’m not denying that some ‘predators’ use chatrooms to contact other people. In the same way that I’m sure you won’t deny that accidents involving pedestrians and cars usually happen on roads.
It depends. I’m all in favor of parental controls; the user (parent) can change and customize these settings. They’re basically sysadmins for the desktop machine, defining limits for users on their machines. That’s different from DRM and digital rights.
In the case of DRM, likely as not it’s the company who made the content determining what you can and cannot do; or the industry deciding that nobody should be allowed to do certain things.
Trusted Computing is fine (who wants viruses playing with critical system components?) but only as long as you actually trust whoever implemented it.
As for DRM, I can see its rationale, but on the same token everything right now seems to be so paranoid, draconian and locked down that it creates a real problem (this is especially where I don’t trust the RIAA/MPAA- how can you be sure they’re not installing a rootkit and sending everything back to their office of Corporate Data Mining and Identity Theft? [this is not an attack on Sony, this is a hypothetical])
Maybe this is why the iTunes 99 cent music with limited DRM is popular (other explanations being the iPod itself).
How very well said.
//I think open source has its share of security holes. //
Certainly, as nothing is perfect.
As a ratio, it would be something like 100,000+ active exploits for Windows compared with every 1 for Linux.
So you are right, Linux does have its share.
As a ratio, it would be something like 100,000+ active exploits for Windows compared with every 1 for Linux.
Okay, what is the criteria here? One Linux (kernel) exploit vs Windows (Kernel)? Particular kernel version vs. any from all of eternity? Linux distributions vs Windows (OS)? Again, particular versions vs any from all of eternity? Standard applications for the distribution vs. anything that can be ran on it (i.e. SQL Server)?
Regardless of the critiera, I’ll gladly cough up a Linux exploit or two. Eagerly awaiting your 100,000 to 200,000 Windows exploits.
Cheers,
Steve
As a ratio, it would be something like 100,000+ active exploits for Windows compared with every 1 for Linux.
2 for Debian. 1 for GNU’s Savannah server.
Firefox has proven otherwise. I notice from the web analytics firms there are lots of pre-1.5 Firefox installs out there … which are incredibly insecure.
RedHat has hundreds of security issues on the security errata page.
As I’ve noted, XP SP2 default install (Firewall on and automatic patching) did not get exploited when tested by a Honeynet Project.
Yet Debian got cracked by a zero day exploit.
Microsofts Security Lifecycle has helped make IIS6 and SQl 2000 SP4+ very secure compared to Apache and Oracle.
Vista has gone through the same process.
IE7 runs in reduced privledge mode on Vista. And under XP Sp2 is very secure. (And has 11% market share on some sites beating Firefox).
IE7 runs in reduced privledge mode on Vista. And under XP Sp2 is very secure. (And has 11% market share on some sites beating Firefox).
When a user installs XP he automatically runs as admin thereafter.
When a user installs XP he automatically runs as admin thereafter.
But IE7 has several features to counteract that.
• Phishing Filter. Microsoft’s new Phishing Filter provides better protection against malicious Web site operators and helps prevent users from becoming the victims of online fraud. The Phishing Filter warns users about suspicious sites and blocks access to confirmed phishing sites. The opt-in feature analyzes pages in real time, and the confirmed phishing sites list is updated several times every hour using the latest security information from Microsoft and industry partners. This helps ensure that users are safer from the moment new phishing sites first appear on the Web.
• ActiveX Opt-In. This malware protection feature disables nearly all pre-installed ActiveX® Controls, and helps prevent potentially vulnerable controls from being exposed to attack. Users can easily enable or disable ActiveX Controls as needed through the Information Bar and the Add-on Manager.
• Fix My Settings. To help prevent users from browsing with unsafe settings, Internet Explorer 7 alerts users with an Information Bar when current security settings may put them at risk. Within the security settings window, users will see settings highlighted in red when they modify certain critical items. Dialog alerts warn the user about potentially unsafe settings, and the user will be reminded by the Information Bar as long as the settings remain in that condition. With one click, users can instantly reset the security settings to the Medium-High default level by clicking on the Fix My Settings option in the Information Bar.
• Extended Validation Certificates. Microsoft has worked with the industry to develop a new, stricter standard for issuing certificates, called Extended Validation Certificates. To help further reduce identity theft and increase user confidence in Web transactions, the Internet Explorer 7 Address Bar will display the usual SSL padlock with a green highlight when visiting a site with an Extended Validation Certificate.
• Cross-domain Script Barriers. This feature restricts Web page script from interacting with content from other domains or windows to help users keep their personal information out of potentially malicious hands. This new safeguard further helps protect users against malware by limiting the potential for malicious Web sites to manipulate flaws in other Web sites or cause users to download undesired content or software onto their PCs.
• Delete Browsing History. The Delete Browsing History option extends enhanced protection to user privacy and passwords. Especially valuable on shared or public computers, this feature enables users to instantly clean up cached pages, erase any passwords, form data and cookies, and clear their browsing history — all with a single click.
• International Domain Name Anti-Spoofing. In addition to adding native support for International Domain Names in URLs, Internet Explorer 7 also notifies the user when similar characters in the URL are not expressed in the same language — even when the characters look similar across several languages — thus helping protect the user against spoof sites that would otherwise appear as a known trustworthy site.
You actually made a good post full of facts supporting your argument, and guess what? You got modded up. When people say “we” have been modding you down, they mean practically everyone who reads your posts, because most of them are nothing but personal attacks and opinions backed up by nothing. I’d encourage you to make more posts like the one I’m replying to as they add to the discussion instead of taking away from it like many of your other posts do. As someone else said, a lot of your posts have a nugget of truth in them but you distort things so badly and attack everyone who dares to disagree with you.
You actually made a good post full of facts supporting your argument, and guess what? You got modded up. When people say “we” have been modding you down, they mean practically everyone who reads your posts, because most of them are nothing but personal attacks and opinions backed up by nothing
Get real. I get attacked non-stop on this site because people don’t like it that I prefer Windows.
Even my mild responses to those name-calling attacks in this thread are now modded down.
mild responses?
“the Firefox trainwreck destorys us all..”
“OSS fanatics are like Russians during the cold war”
“makes us feel like westerners visiting Eastern Europe during the cold war”
“I think you should pull your head out of your *ss. ”
“the insane to indulge in their anti-Microsoft conspiracy theories”
“Lying is a bad way to start an article.”
“GPLv3 wants to recreate dll hell.”
“stole its IP”
“Linux has zero chance of catching Windows.”
“Linux is way more bloated.” [than Vista] hahaha -ed.
“Are all OSS fanatics this cheap? ”
“Java is a con game”
“Security by design? Linux? OSS? I laugh!”
“Of course OSS stole IP. Thats what they do! ”
“What a load of bull you are spewing.”
“Nah nah nah nah … nah nah nah na”
“25,000 bounty to the family of suicide bombers for killing lots of jews.”
“OSS lie … Debian’s been cracked.”
“making stuff up to cover up incompetence”
“OSS fanatics” “OSS crybabies” “Linux fanatcis” “cultists” “cults” “cult” “cult” “unethical” “hypocracy” “cultists” “Communist” “cultists are all hypocrites” “excommunicated” “cultists” “cult” “cultists” “cultist” “cultists” “slavery” “mentally ill” “Slavery” “cultist” “cultist” “cultists” “cult” “cult” “nutbar cult” “cult” “cult” “cult” “cultist” “cult” “cult members”
“You cultists are a laugh!”
“Stop behaving like a cult”
“tiny little heads of OSS fanatics explode.”
“Firefox is old and tired and full of security holes.”
“Picking a distro is a crap shoot.”
“Firefox is a sieve.”
“another bullsh*t myth”
“open source is thievery. ”
“How long have you lived on Fantasy Island?”
“OSS is just a loony cult.”
“excommunicated” “excommunicated” “excommunicated for dealing with the Devil”
“You really know nothing”
“ignorant anti-Microsft FUD”
“immature”
“stalker” “stalking” “stalk” “stalking”
[/i]mild responses?[/i]
Compared to the hate directed at anyone who doesn’t kiss the *ss of the cult, yes.
Thanks for reminding me how honest I was.
Ahh the good old days.
But thanks to the pervert arhiesteel I may just return to my straight shooting ways.
“the Firefox trainwreck destorys us all..”
“OSS fanatics are like Russians during the cold war”
“makes us feel like westerners visiting Eastern Europe during the cold war”
“I think you should pull your head out of your *ss. ”
“the insane to indulge in their anti-Microsoft conspiracy theories”
“Lying is a bad way to start an article.”
“GPLv3 wants to recreate dll hell.”
“stole its IP”
“Linux has zero chance of catching Windows.”
“Linux is way more bloated.” [than Vista] hahaha -ed.
“Are all OSS fanatics this cheap? ”
“Java is a con game”
“Security by design? Linux? OSS? I laugh!”
“Of course OSS stole IP. Thats what they do! ”
“What a load of bull you are spewing.”
“Nah nah nah nah … nah nah nah na”
“25,000 bounty to the family of suicide bombers for killing lots of jews.”
“OSS lie … Debian’s been cracked.”
“making stuff up to cover up incompetence”
“OSS fanatics” “OSS crybabies” “Linux fanatcis” “cultists” “cults” “cult” “cult” “unethical” “hypocracy” “cultists” “Communist” “cultists are all hypocrites” “excommunicated” “cultists” “cult” “cultists” “cultist” “cultists” “slavery” “mentally ill” “Slavery” “cultist” “cultist” “cultists” “cult” “cult” “nutbar cult” “cult” “cult” “cult” “cultist” “cult” “cult members”
“You cultists are a laugh!”
“Stop behaving like a cult”
“tiny little heads of OSS fanatics explode.”
“Firefox is old and tired and full of security holes.”
“Picking a distro is a crap shoot.”
“Firefox is a sieve.”
“another bullsh*t myth”
“open source is thievery. ”
“How long have you lived on Fantasy Island?”
“OSS is just a loony cult.”
“excommunicated” “excommunicated” “excommunicated for dealing with the Devil”
“You really know nothing”
“ignorant anti-Microsft FUD”
“immature”
“stalker” “stalking” “stalk” “stalking”
“As a ratio, it would be something like 100,000+ active exploits for Windows compared with every 1 for Linux.”
Pulling numbers out of your ass doesn’t count as facts. I dislike Windows as much as the next guy but come on, absolutely no-one is helped by fabricated numbers like that.
DRM has nothing to do with copy protection at all.
Don’t worry. Linux will have most of the applicable features within six to eight months, long before Microsoft ships Windows Fiji (which will only be a incremental upgrade).
We’ll just let the trolls gun their motors while they’re ahead.
Edited 2006-12-08 06:13
Don’t worry. Linux will have most of the applicable features within six to eight months, long before Microsoft ships Windows Fiji (which will only be a incremental upgrade).
But will Linux ever have any new features no one else has? Copying Microsoft would be kind of lame if everything claimed about Microsoft on this site was true.
Why copy Microsoft? Why not innovate?
GNU/Linux is competiting against the world’s most monopolistic contender in our software industry.
The Windows way of doing things has been fabricated in everyones mind.
The fact that Linux is different underneath is a source of criticism. Imagine if the interface was alien as well!
The learning curve would be far too great for most Windows users to switch between the two.
There needs to be familiarity while Windows still holds the throne at 95% marketshare.
GNU/Linux is competiting against the world’s most monopolistic contender in our software industry.
Near monopoly as the EU said. A near monopoly acquired by the mistakes of others and presisteance and hard work on Microsoft part.
The learning curve would be far too great for most Windows users to switch between the two.
I agree.
There needs to be familiarity while Windows still holds the throne at 95% marketshare.
Innovation would still be applauded if attempted.
Innovation would still be applauded if attempted.
Not by the last remaining Windows-worshipping holdouts like you it wouldn’t, which is the people Linux still hasn’t reached.
Since Microsoft with Vista has copied KDE and Gnome, I don’t think one can claim KDE/Gnome are copying Microsoft.
In Windows you still cannot install themes through drag’n’drop – something which has been possible in Gnome for many years. A small thing, but just a feature Windows doesn’t have.
In Windows you cannot install templates through drag’n’drop. OS/2 and Gnome has support for that (templates merely being a file or a folder). Just another feature Windows still lacks.
And take a look at contacts and mails in Vista. MS is copying the *nix paradigm of “everything is a file”
Dunno about Gnome, but in the OS/2 WPS a template could be any desktop object (like a printer), and you could also install custom fonts and wallpapers in any folder by drag-and-drop. I thought that was quite fun. 🙂
Oops. I don’t think wallpapers could be added via drag-and-drop by default, although they can be with third-party WPS extensions.
Yeah, you’re right. Any object could be a template. Such a wonderful OS. My first love
and they would be?
Linux don’t have that much features just because the Open Source guys always compare GNU/Linux distros on feature basis with Windows and they always try to reinvent the wheel which Microsoft and Apple had already done.
Why don’t they go on there own way? Why they always compare it with Windows? No doubt if you want to compete with your competitor, you have to observe them that what are they doing but it doesn’t mean that you always compare your softwares feature by feature with your Windows. I am sorry to say that Apple and Microsoft is more innovative than the GNU/Linux.
They had innovative features but dropped them all so they could actually ship it.
They had innovative features but dropped them all so they could actually ship it.
ZING!
Indeed.
Maybe they will “innovate” a new definition of “innovation” that actually means what it’s supposed to mean.
I guess Steve’s version of innovation is what other OS’s have had for years.
i have to agree with you.
steve jobs always claims some feature in osx is an innovation, but as soon as you dig a little deeper its just a plain copy.
You mean like desktop compositing? Things that Novell SUSE is still trying to get right with Xgl?
Desktop compositing is working on Linux *right now* with Beryl, which his not exclusively a Novell project but a community one.
Xgl (and AIGLX) are simply hardware-accelerated X servers. If you’re going to troll, at least get your facts straight.
Desktop compositing is working on Linux *right now* with Beryl, which his not exclusively a Novell project but a community one.
What you failed to mention, though, is that desktop compositing in Linux is buggy as hell and doesn’t work on a lot of video cards. Ergo, it’s not ready for prime time. So, Linux is still playing catch-up.
What you failed to mention, though, is that desktop compositing in Linux is buggy as hell and doesn’t work on a lot of video cards.
Actually, it’s working quite well now. It’s stable, fast, and easy to configure with all the new setup tools available. It also works flawlessly with Nvidia, ATI and Intel cards…which is basically every 3D card out there.
Things move fast in the OSS world, unfortunately for anti-Linux trolls…
Ergo, it’s not ready for prime time. So, Linux is still playing catch-up.
Sorry, but compositing in Linux is now *more* advanced than what you find in Vista. MS is the now playing catch-up (as far as eye candy goes).
Once again, we see that your version of the truth is inconsistent with reality. Desktop compositing does not work with a significant number of video cards (unless you twist the truth to equate really buggy behavior with “working”). Here’s just a sampling of problems from …
http://gentoo-wiki.com/HARDWARE_Video_Card_Support_Under_XGL
Similarly, there are significant problems with “supported” cards if you don’t use specific versions of drivers (or combinations of drivers) with them. Some of these drivers are only available on certain distros, which doesn’t help you if you’re using another distro. In other words, desktop composting on Linux has been rushed out the door in a bid to keep up with Windows Vista — and Linux desktop compositing isn’t ready for prime time. Yet.
Radeon Mobility 7000: Half-screen problem can occur.
Radeon 7000VE: Works as fast as it can.
Radeon All-in-Wonder 8500: Rootless mode only with xf86-video-ati-6.5.7.3
FireGL 9000: Distorted Screen with both drivers (ati-drivers-8.22.05, 8.23.7) but works (slowly) with open source drm drivers
Mobility Radeon 7500: Slow at 24 bpp. Flickering, bitmaps not properly redrawn, slow windows, and black windows at 16 bpp. I’ve tested it with Kororaa XGL Demo LiveCD 0.2 and found it working smooth but without dri
Radeon 7500: No DRM, slow video
Radeon 9250: Installation issues with via CVS
Mobility Radeon 9600 M10: No DRI; heavy CPU usage; can’t watch videos at fullscreen smoothly on 1.7 Pentium M – I can’t watch videos at fullscreen with regular xorg on 1.5 Pentium M
Mobility Radeon 9600 M10: DRI working. Got >3000fps with glxgears regular (Without Xgl), Mesa/OpenGL apps crashes Xgl.
Mobility Radeon 9600 M10: [Some stats: glxgears: ~5000 FPS / 2 mplayers with transparency: ~50% CPU usage / fast cube desktop rotation ~50% CPU usage]
Radeon 9600 XT: KDM is a bit slow though for some reason.
Radeon 9800 XT: Slow KDM.
Radeon X300 (PCIE): Random lockups can be fixed by turning off mtrr in Xorg.conf
Radeon X600: OpenGL applications and mplayer crash X. Screenshots garbled.
Radeon X600 Pro: very slow Wobbly effect.
Radeon X600 Pro: Distorted sceen & totally freeze PC.
Radeon X700: random lockups on x86, using driver 8.22.5 and 8.23.7.
Radeon X800: OpenGL windows render black, mplayer and xscreensaver crash X
Radeon X850 Pro: Crashes more often with DRM than on fglrx
Radeon XPRESS 200M 5955 (PCIE): No XGL Compatibility, xPress 200m Chipsets can not run XGL.
Radeon XPRESS 200M 5955 (PCIE): the ati’s drivers goes wrong, you need tou modified the links in /usr/lib/libGL* to /usr/lib/fglrx.
Radeon Xpress 200M 128M: Not supported. No xgl support.
Radeon Xpress 200M: unusual high CPU usage
Radeon IGP 345M: This isn’t very good in the first place, do not expect miraculous performance. Due to this, XGL performance is poor. AIGLX works well (double-digit framerate; “well” is a relative term here!). XAA flickers uncomfortably and is slower;
Radeon X1600 PCIe 256M: tested on Asus A6ja-q039h, gentoo 2006.0 with unstable ati-drivers ebuild.
Radeon X1600 AGP 256M: Tried on Epox 8rda3+, gentoo 2005.2 with unstable ati-drivers ebuild.
Intel 815GM: Black windows. (Cube rotates! Black faces…)
Intel 830M: swsusp2 works, xv output (mplayer & gst-xvideo) works but eats CPU cycles, scrolling is slow in gecko based browser.
Intel 855GM: Notes: Needs >=sys-kernel/*-sources-2.6.16 for DRI and crashes with mplayer -vo xv
Intel 865G: DRI ok. scrolling is slow, workspace transitioning is choppy. eats CPU cycles.
Intel 945GM: No DRI yet
Intel 950GMA: Works great. However accelleration seems to be disabled for everything
Intel 965GM: compiz does not yet work, error: “GLXUnsupportedPrivateRequest” (eva: I had this while testing with xterm and following the tutorial, but going on to the gdm setup and launching the whole beast worked out of the box)
nVidia GeForce FX5200go 64Mb: no direct rendering)
Framerate for glxgears doubled to 4000+ fps, while other GL apps fps dropped by half, and the fps is now inconsistant.
nVidia GeForce FX5250: no direct rendering
nVidia GeForce FX5500: no direct rendering
nVidia GeForce FX5600: no direct rendering
nVidia GeForce 6200: no direct rendering
nVidia Quadro NVS 110M / GeForce Go 7300: rather slow due to excessive cpu usage on most operations like scrolling, moving windows, etc)
Furthermore, here are cards that are completely unsupported…
ATI Technologies Inc R200 BC [Radeon All in Wonder 8500]
ATI Technologies Inc R200 QL [Radeon 8500 LE]
ATI Technologies Inc RV280 (5960) [Radeon 9200 Pro]
ATI Technologies Inc RV280 (5961) [Radeon 9200]
ATI Technologies Inc RV280 (5964) [Radeon 9200SE]
ATI Technologies Inc R200 [FireGL 8800]
ATI Technologies Inc Radeon 9800 XT
ATI Technologies Inc [Radeon X550]
ATI Technologies Inc [Radeon X600]
ATI Technologies Inc [Radeon 7000]
ATI Technologies Inc M9 [Radeon Mobility 9000]
ATI Rage Mobility M4
ATI Technologies Inc M22 [Radeon Mobility M300]
ATI Rage 128 Pro
nVidia GeForce 4 Go 420 32Mb
nVidia GeForce 7300 LE/PCI/SSE2 256MB
NVIDIA 87.74.
nVidia GeForce 7900 GS
VIA Unichrome KM400
VIA CLE266
Evga Nvidia 6600 LE PCIe
That list is seriously out-of-date, it seems.
I personally have a Radeon XPRESS 200M with the most recent drivers. Not only does Xgl work (despite what your list would indicate), it no longer requires me to changing the libGL symlink, nor does it cause high CPU usage.
Another example: NVIDIA GeForce 5600. Tried it with most recent drivers, works.
This is exactly the point I was making: a couple of months ago, it was very hard to make Xgl run. The progress since then has been nothing less than phenomenal, so that now compositing works for the vast majority of video cards. (Never mind that Xgl is *not* compositing but hardware acceleration. Compositing is handled by Beryl/Compiz.)
So I stand by my assertion, which unlike your criticism is up-to-date: right now, compositing works very well on working Linux 3D setups, and it is Vista which must catch-up to Linux.
Also, why did you post such a freakin’ long list? Couldn’t you just post the link? Jeez…
What I notice from the list is that there are much more cards that are supported than ones that aren’t – even considering that the list is out-of-date.
Similarly, there are significant problems with “supported” cards if you don’t use specific versions of drivers
Use the latest versions of ATI and Nvidia drivers and you’ll be fine.
Some of these drivers are only available on certain distros.
Not true. Both NVIDIA and ATI provide distro-agnostic installers for their drivers.
I’m sorry, tomcat, but you’ll need to find another bone to pick on. Support for Beryl and XGL/AIGLX has improved *dramatically* since the end of summer.
And of course, if you get the latest version of SuSE, it even works out-of-the-box, and offers much more features than what you find on Vista. Sorry.
Once again, we see that your version of the truth is inconsistent with reality.
BTW, did you notice I was able to reply to you without attacking you or questioning your credibility? Think about that.
Edited 2006-12-08 19:58
I’ve read that a lot of people disagree with the list of cards having problems; however, since my card is on the list and I’m having problems, I can only conclude that your mileage may vary. I included the full list because it gives a better picture of the number and type of cards that have been having problems. We’re not just talking about a few fringe cards. These are all mainstream video cards.
Keep in mind, I’m not saying that Xgl is crap — or that it won’t work. The big problem is that many of the drivers suck hard. That’s going to take time to fix. And, until then, I can only conclude that Xgl isn’t ready for prime time, despite the reassurances of you and others. I just don’t buy your anecdotal reply.
Radeon 9800 XT: Slow KDM.
Radeon X600: OpenGL applications and …
Radeon X600 Pro: very slow Wobbly effect.
…
Completely unsupported…
ATI Technologies Inc Radeon 9800 XT
ATI Technologies Inc [Radeon X600]
So these cards are both unsupported, and have cosmetic issues??
Also, 2 Graphics Cards [Radeon X600, 9600 M10] and make up 10% of that list.
How many graphics cards aren’t up to supporting Aero then?
I believe that Vista will be the last operating system from MS as we know it. Bill and company have been speaking a lot about software as a service rather than a product.
The only way MS can sustain their profits going forward after the Vista “experience” is to stop selling the OS as a product and sell it as a service.
This way they can claim “innovation” in small baby upgrades instead of one big shot every 4-5 years (and still have a regular revenue stream).
Unfortunately, Windows’ poor security may work in Microsoft’s favor as it could leverage the SAAS model to guarantee security upgrades and improvements going forward. I’m not sure the public will like it and this may lean in Linux’ favor.
Time will tell.
Edited 2006-12-08 03:00
Of the three “major” OS players, Microsoft is far behind in development terms.
With an open-source base, both Apple and Linux are way out in front in terms of development resources. Apple worries less about the kernel, and more about the API, graphics system, and UI.
Linux has effectively the same thing– One team doing Kernel work, another doing Xorg, still others doing the UI (pick a desktop environment).
Microsoft has to field all of the above, and it’s not working out well for them. If I were Microsoft, I think I’d seriously consider forking Wine, and the next generation of Windows might have a Linux kernel under it.
If the goal is SAAS, then why not make the OS as cheap as possible?
I don’t know if Microsoft would be willing to make that leap, however.
They’d open-source NT before moving to linux. It’s pretty much a non-starter anyway.
About apple: does anyone outside of apple actually work on Darwin? I’m pretty sure that apple does all or nearly all of the work there. And actually writing the code is not really the hard part. More effort in these low-level systems seems to go into testing and reviewing.
They’d open-source NT before moving to linux. It’s pretty much a non-starter anyway.
OK, why is moving to Linux a non-starter? Are you thinking GPLphobia?
Edited 2006-12-08 12:31
I’m thinking that open-sourcing NT is a non-starter within Microsoft. Moving to Linux would be pretty unnecessary since the NT kernel already does pretty much everything linux does, albeit maybe not as quickly due to its additional abstraction layers to support binary drivers.
The Windows kernel is actually very clean and well-designed. Things get hairy when you move into user-mode.
Microsoft already does SAAS… It’s called software assurance and volume licensing, among other things. The reason why they give you the OS so cheap (basically free when you average it out) is so they can sell you the support for it. They also make a boat load of money selling you Exchange, SQL Server, and Visual Studio.
That’s not going to make them do that on the consumer desktop though. There’s no reason to do so until Linux becomes a major competitor there (which they won’t) or Apple starts licensing their OS to major OEM’s (which they won’t either).
The closest thing we’ll see to SAAS on the desktop is Windows Live and Vista’s Ultimate Extras. They’ll start using those services as a valueadd for people who buy more expensive version of Windows. It will also reinforce their brand and give them ad-revenue.
Frankly, I’d be more worried about them making everything ad-driven (think Windows Live Desktop Mail and Windows Live Messenger) and continually in beta… or essentially using the Google model for your desktop. Now that would suck.
Edited 2006-12-08 04:43
The reason why they give you the OS so cheap (basically free when you average it out) is so they can sell you the support for it.
One of the great things about Microsft is you can choose to buy support by the incident. It costs about $250 a call. If the call take hours, you still only pay once.
We have about 200 servers and 3000 desktops and we average 5-10 calls per year. About 1250 – 2500$.
Microsoft support is cheap.
Software Assurance is a different matter, but Microsoft has added some great benefits like Software Virtualization which kick in in 2007.
The only way MS can sustain their profits going forward after the Vista “experience” is to stop selling the OS as a product and sell it as a service.
Not even Microsoft’s competitors believe such tripe. Seriously, are you acquainted with reality? MS has a monopoly on desktop operating system sales. That isn’t going to change anytime soon. Whenever Dell or Gateway or IBM or HP or whoever sells a laptop or desktop, it’s going to have a Microsoft operating system on it — with some percentage of the profits going to Redmond.
This way they can claim “innovation” in small baby upgrades instead of one big shot every 4-5 years (and still have a regular revenue stream).
Again, more nonsense. What MS needs to do is shorten the cycle of time of each release by doing less, sticking to the schedule, and enforcing accountability up and down the hierarchy. There’s no reason that it can’t ship an operating system every 2 years which adds value but doesn’t go over budget.
fortunately, Windows’ poor security may work in Microsoft’s favor as it could leverage the SAAS model to guarantee security upgrades and improvements going forward. I’m not sure the public will like it and this may lean in Linux’ favor.
Have you even tried using Vista? Whereas XP was nailed with a bunch of malware attacks before it was even out of beta, Vista has largely gone unscathed due to its new security model. This is a fact. Go out to secunia.org, if you doubt it. There are going to be a lot of people in the OSS community who are going to be disappointed that they no longer have security as a blunt instrument to bash MS over the head, because it diminishes their value equation.
Vista has largely gone unscathed due to its new security model.
Aren’t you jumping the gun a bit with your cheerleading here? Vista just came out…give it a couple of months and then we’ll talk again.
Aren’t you jumping the gun a bit with your cheerleading here? Vista just came out…give it a couple of months and then we’ll talk again.
The fact remains that Vista hasn’t been hit with a slew of malware — as was XP prior to release — so it isn’t looking good for your side. Hmmmmmmm … what to complain about next? Stability. Nope. Nobody considers stability to be an issue anymore. Accessibility? Nope. Linux accessibility is hopelessly bad. Internationalization? Nope. Same. Appearance? Nope. Most Linux distros look like a high school graphic designer put them together. Performance? Nope. Non-starter. Fonts? Puh-lease. Linux fonts are horrible.
Your view is incredibly biased by your pro-MS agenda, I’m afraid.
The fact remains that Vista hasn’t been hit with a slew of malware — as was XP prior to release — so it isn’t looking good for your side.
You take pride in stating that Vista hasn’t been hit by malware *before* it is released? That’s really sad. The fact that it has better security than an OS that gets hacked within 10 minutes of being connected to the Internet isn’t very significant. When you’re at the bottom of the barrel, there’s no other way to go but up…
Stability. Nope. Nobody considers stability to be an issue anymore.
It’s true that MS had slowly increased the stability of its OSes, so that they are now on par with *nix/Linux. I’ll give you that one.
Accessibility? Nope. Linux accessibility is hopelessly bad.
Linux is just as accessible as Windows is. FUD.
Internationalization? Nope. Same.
Linux is available in more languages than Windows is. It is also very easy to switch an installed version of Linux to another language. You don’t have to buy localized versions of Linux to do so either. More FUD.
Appearance? Nope. Most Linux distros look like a high school graphic designer put them together.
That’s very subjective, but I’d say that the latest offerings from SuSE, Ubuntu and RedHat look just as good – if not better – than Vista. Eye candy is no longer an advantage for Windows, just like stability is no longer an advantage for Linux. More FUD.
Performance? Nope. Non-starter.
Unsubstantiated (and fallacious) claim. More FUD.
Fonts? Puh-lease. Linux fonts are horrible.
You haven’t used Linux in a while. Fonts look better on Linux than on Windows, especially on hi-res displays (1600×1200 and up). They look as good as on Mac OSX, in fact. Yet more FUD.
2003 called, they want their FUD back.
Appearance? Nope. Most Linux distros look like a high school graphic designer put them together.
As opposed to Xp, I suppose; which by default looks like a four-year-old with less artistic talent than most four-year-olds put it together.
Fonts? Puh-lease. Linux fonts are horrible.
Linux fonts are horrible on a 15.4 inch screen at some resolutions – on SUSE, but perhaps not on other distros (definitely not horrible on a “tv-aspect-ratio” screen on Gentoo. Windows 98 fonts are horrible.
1 out of 2 for both Linux and Windows.
Windows 98 is, well, eight and a half years old. XP and especially Vista have superb font rendering.
So do most versions of Linux. In fact I’d be hard pushed to say which of Gentoo or XP-with-Cleartext has worse.
XP-without-Cleartext is decidedly worse.
I’ve been going back and forth between Vista RC2 and a fresh install of XP. Amd X2 5000+, 1GB of ram and an ATI 1300 Pro. I won’t tell you the brand because archiesteel will mod me down for “spamming ads” but it has 4 letters in the name and it was pretty cheap.
Vista is faster and a lot snappier than XP.
I look forward to installing the RTM.
I think Vista will be a huge hit and make Microsoft billions. The pent up demand for a new OS from Microsoft will be fulfilled by Vista, not Linux and Not Apple.
I think Microsoft has put a lot of work into modularizing Windows that will pay lots of dividends.
Edited 2006-12-08 04:26
I won’t tell you the brand because archiesteel will mod me down for “spamming ads”
Don’t be ridiculous, I wouldn’t mod you down for naming a brand…
The pent up demand for a new OS from Microsoft will be fulfilled by Vista, not Linux and Not Apple.
There is very little demand for a new OS with a new byzantine pricing scheme, outside of MS geeks. The vast majority of people right now are happy with WinXP. As I have said before, inertia’s now playing against MS.
Most people will upgrade to Vista unintentionally, when they buy a new computer, proving once again that MS owes its quasi-monopoly status (something which you obviously root for) to its OEM strategy. So what else is new?
Seriously, it’d be a real shame if you didn’t actually work for MS. You’re so dedicated to the company and its products. You don’t just claim MS superiority, you actively *wish* for it. It seems like some sort of emotional obsession. You’re the ultimate fanboy – I bet you are incapable of saying one bad thing about MS.
So, how much does it pay to astroturf OSNews?
Most people will upgrade to Vista unintentionally, when they buy a new computer
No, most people will upgrade to Vista when Blizzard releases a Vista-only WoW version :p
…but Blizzard won’t release a Vista-only version of WoW until enough people have it installed… 🙂
Yes they will, just after MS buys them. But it will be released as “Halo World” instead 😉
Oh, well said.
There is very little demand for a new OS with a new byzantine pricing scheme, outside of MS geeks.
People don’t buy OSes — they buy packaged computers. Dell offers a menu of hardware choices and the overwhelming majority of users don’t care about how many OSes Microsoft offers. They’re going to choose the OS that Dell recommends.
Yes, you are *exactly* repeating what I was saying. The reason MS enjoys its desktop dominance is due to its OEM strategy.
Good to see that you agree with me, and disagree with NotParker (who was claiming that customers were *waiting* for the new OS).
Feel free to further agree with me anytime you feel like it…
Windows ME made Microsoft billions and was a huge hit as well.
Nothing to see here.
Windows ME was never destined for huge success. It was launched in between Windows 98/98SE and XP. It was basically Windows 98 Third Edition and beaten down handily by Windows 2000.
Vista doesn’t have the same problems with timing that ME had.
Microsoft still made billions and its marketshare greatly surpassed all other non-Windows operating systems.
But wait, the list of Vista features does not stop there! Just search on the terms vista and drm and you too can see the lovely restrictions on the user that have been planned. All in all, a faster set of golden handcuffs, my computer a playground for control freaks–what an irresistable deal! Oh, and since Vista is modularized, you can see even more how lots of dividends of all kinds will be paid.
Seriously, I will admit there is a type of person who will instinctively be right at home with this kind of thing, but only readers with a certain maturity will get my drift here. Good luck to you.
“The pent up demand for a new OS from Microsoft will be fulfilled by Vista”
I’m not so sure there’s a pent up demand, most people are pretty happy with XP. Of course, you can always artificially create demand and that’s what MS is good at.
Now doubt it will be on a lot of machines (especially new ones) but “pent up demand” make it sound like there’ll be a flood of people rushing to the stores to get their copy of Vista and I find that to be quite unlikely.
Maybe MS should play the Sony trumpcard and create an artificial and fake shortage
‘most people are pretty happy with XP.’
I don’t think it’s that most people are happy, I think it’s more that most people couldn’t care. And they shouldn’t need to either.
What are you on about ? Vista is not modular, in fact it is so far from modular I fail to see how you thought it was.
I think Ballmer has it right when he talks about how much end users mean to Microsoft.
I compared the openSUSE install screenshots with Vista’s install and instantly thought that there were way too many choices offerred by openSUSE that would have been tough for the average end user.
Sure, most people will get Vista for about 50$ more than a bare PC from D*** (gotta be careful with stalkers) preinstalled.
But a new install or upgrade for Vista is really simple.
Parents are going to love the new parental controls:
“The Home Basic, Home Premium, and Ultimate editions of Windows Vista include a range of parental controls. An administrator can apply parental control restrictions to other users on the computer. Facilities include:
Web content blocking, including the ability to limit web browsing to “kids websites”, as well as blocking particular categories of content such as “Pornography”, “Drugs”, “Web e-mail”, “Web chat”, and so on. File downloads may also be disabled.
Time limitations on when the account may be used
Restrictions on what kind of games may be played. An administrator may choose from one of five different game rating services: ESRB (United States and Canada), PEGI (Europe), USK (Germany), OFLC (Australia and New Zealand), CERO (Japan). Ratings are used to determine the highest allowed game rating. As with web content blocking, a number of categories of content may also be blocked regardless of game ratings.
Restrictions on what programs may be executed
Activity reports to monitor what was done under Parental Controls
Ability to log actions such as Instant Messaging conversations
The Parental Controls area is “pluggable” allowing applications to add their own settings. For example, a chat program might offer a restriction to only allow the user to enter certain channels, and forbid private conversation outside those channels.”
— Wikipedia
I’m with archisteel here, Vista is going to be a huge success for MS but only because everyone will get it with a new computer. I don’t see millions of people rushing out to upgrade from XP. In fact, the company I worked at just upgraded all our computers from 2000 to XP a couple of months ago, so I imagine we won’t go to Vista for another 5 years.
Oh, and did someone actually mod you down for saying you had a Dell? If so, link to your post and I’ll mod you up – somehow I think you’re exaggerating here. Maybe you called someone a cultist and mentioned you had a dell in one post, then figured you must have been modded down for the latter? 😉
Oh, and did someone actually mod you down for saying you had a Dell? If so, link to your post and I’ll mod you up – somehow I think you’re exaggerating here. Maybe you called someone a cultist and mentioned you had a dell in one post, then figured you must have been modded down for the latter? 😉
No. What happened was that someone was going around claiming Vista retailed for 600$ and that he couldn’t afford a PC with Vista on it.
To counter that FUD I listed some of the features of a very inexpensive D*** that included a free upgrade coupon to Vista Home Premium (with the media center features). I included the link because a certain stalker had been accusing me of lying a lot that day.
So I included a reference.
The stalker modded me down.
Vista is going to be a huge success for MS but only because everyone will get it with a new computer. I don’t see millions of people rushing out to upgrade from XP.
Maybe. Maybe not. But the same thing was said about Xp and it has 85% of the market now.
Googles webstats showed a nice steady progression for XP even as Linux lingered at 1% year after year.
Computers are really inexpensive now with dual core PC’s going for close to 500$ from D*** I think a lot of upgrading will be going on in 2007!
Edited 2006-12-08 05:51
Maybe. Maybe not. But the same thing was said about Xp and it has 85% of the market now.
Perhaps, but not by me. It was pretty obvious that XP was an enormous leap from the 98/ME world, and I thought there was enormous demand for a more secure and robust OS. Right now I think XP is good enough for most people and that satisfaction is going to keep people from actively getting Vista.
Googles webstats showed a nice steady progression for XP even as Linux lingered at 1% year after year.
Yes, as people upgraded their old 98/ME computers with new ones they got the new OS. This is actually exactly what I think will happen with Vista too, I just expect the initial jump to be much smaller.
Computers are really inexpensive now with dual core PC’s going for close to 500$ from D***.
OK, there have been multiple posts now saying it is fine to name Dell. Since your feelings seem to be hurt so badly, I’m modding up your previous post. Feel better?
OK, there have been multiple posts now saying it is fine to name Dell. Since your feelings seem to be hurt so badly, I’m modding up your previous post. Feel better?
Not really. The stalker was really going at it today, modding down every polite, referenced post I made.
He even started telling me to perform a sex act on him.
Of course I had to finally give up in disgust since I couldn’t mod down all those posts where he told me to “Suck it” while he was bragging about accusing me of spamming and trying to get me kicked off.
I think he is out of control.
Right now I think XP is good enough for most people and that satisfaction is going to keep people from actively getting Vista.
I disagree. I think there is pent up demand for both Vista and Office. Basically every PC on D***’s site is offerring the Media Center OS and a Vista coupon for very little money. Another company (two capital letters) has MCE on every consumer PC it sells. People want PVR’s. And they are now cheap. Some even come with 20″ monitors for less than (I better not say).
Not really. The stalker was really going at it today, modding down every polite, referenced post I made.
Actually, I didn’t. I only modded down the off-topic and/or abusive posts.
If you really think I’m stalking you, please write an official complainte to OSNews…but the fact is that you don’t really want to do this. You want to continue calling me a stalker in an effort to undermine my credibility. That’s known as argumentum ad hominem, or “attacking the person.” Instead of responding to a person’s arguments, you attack them.
No one’s falling for it, especially after I’ve told you *twice* that I had no problems with mentioning brand names as long as you don’t provide actual links to a system sold by a retailer (which is, in my view, advertizing).
He even started telling me to perform a sex act on him.
No, I told you to “suck it”, a reference to a WWE wrestler. I even provided a Wikipedia link for you in order to help you understand what I was talking about. But since you’re not interested in truth, but rather in attacking me (because you can’t challenge my arguments), you’ve conveniently ignored this explanation.
And then you wonder why I say that you’re dishonest!
If you really think I’m stalking you, please write an official complainte to OSNews
I just did.
Great. Can’t wait to hear about it. 🙂
Note: this message, as well as the parent, are off-topic. Feel free to mod them down.
Take a deep breath and let it out slowly. No one is stalking you. Your astroturfing has simply made you a target. You are not contributing much of any value. Quite frankly, I am reading much less of OSNews because of your crap. How many times have you posted that link to MS Vista marketing page from Wikipedia?
Get a sense of humor, and don’t be too sensitive when others don’t quite get it. Better yet, just go away.
Take a deep breath and let it out slowly. No one is stalking you. Your astroturfing has simply made you a target. You are not contributing much of any value.
Many cultists do prefer a “Windows Free” environment.
Quite frankly, I am reading much less of OSNews because of your crap.
I find that situation is common just from me being pro-Windows on a site overrun by the cult.
The cult does not like dissenters inside or outside.
No, I told you to “suck it”
Yes you did archiesteel. You are a cultist and a pervert.
Edited 2006-12-08 18:29
Again with insults, NotParker? Are you then going to go and cry a river about being persecuted by evil FOSS advocates?
The “Suck it” jab was a WWE reference. It is not sexual. I already gave you the Wikipedia link.
Now, if I had said “Blow me”, then that would be a different story…
The “Suck it” jab was a WWE reference
Ok. You are perverted about wrestlers.
The Phrase “Well Blow Me Down” does not have sexual implications in some parts of the world.
Its just like the word Gay. There are two (at least) meanings.
Remember the theme tune to the original Flintstones. Does it not end with
“Gay old Time”
This does not mean that Fred or Barney etc are “Gay” but just happy.
Some people need to (especially but not only notparker)
1) Get a Life
2) Lighten up a bit
Back to the Article in Question.
So, where is Microsoft Heading?
At the moment they do not seem to have a real direction. They seem to be getting involved with everything but not concentrating on anything particular. In business jargon, this is called taking their eye off the ball. So, IMHO, Balmer needs to go and pronto. A new head need to be appointed from OUTSIDE who will take a real strategic view of their business and take some tough decisions.
IMHO, Microsoft needs to sell off or close down several business units that are 1) losing money hand over fist or 2) not core businesses.
The Vista debacle (it surely is with all the functionality removed and the delays etc) should be a wakup call to the whole of the microsoft behmoth. This have to change and soon.
IMHO, XBOX should be sold off, Zune should be closed down and then about 20% at least of the headcount worldwide should be laid off. This would make those remaining focus on the key core skills and I am sure that out of this a leaner, keener and more agile Microsoft will evolve. But BALMER has to go. Gates should go sooner than planned.
Just to make it clear, I like ad support Linux but I also write software for Windows, Linux, Solaris etc.
Just my 200 ariary take on MS after Vista.
[Edit to correct some typos]
Edited 2006-12-08 20:10
Now, if I had said “Blow me”, then that would be a different story…
Not necessarily. If you were a Brit, for example, then “blow me” would most probably mean “blow me down”, even if the former is now a somewhat antiquated expression.
Right now I think XP is good enough for most people and that satisfaction is going to keep people from actively getting Vista.
People don’t upgrade their OSes. They buy a new computer with the latest OS installed on it. Consequently, as soon as Vista is available, OEMs are going to offer it to customers — and those customers are going to buy it. Dell is going to actively phase out XP and transition everyone to Vista. I didn’t make up these facts. It’s reality.
People don’t upgrade their OSes. They buy a new computer with the latest OS installed on it.
I suggest this is an over generalization. It would be more accurate to say that “most home and SOHO MicroSoft Windows users don’t buy upgrades for their OS.”
MacOS, BSD, Linux, and Solaris users upgrade (whether paid or not), mid-size and large offices upgrade, and home users install free patches which effectively upgrade.
I suggest this is an over generalization. It would be more accurate to say that “most home and SOHO MicroSoft Windows users don’t buy upgrades for their OS.”
That’s because Microsoft doesn’t sell patches like Apple does.
Googles webstats showed a nice steady progression for XP even as Linux lingered at 1% year after year.
Webstats can’t be used as an accurate measure of OS market share. That is why Google removed the stat from their Zeitgeist section.
IDC, a firm which you have endorsed, says that Desktop Linux was at 3% at the beginning of 2005, and likely to be at 6% in 2006.
Sure, most people will get Vista for about 50$ more than a bare PC from D*** (gotta be careful with stalkers) preinstalled.
Since I assume you’re referring to me in a not-so-subtle way, let me say ONCE AGAIN that you don’t have to worry about naming a brand.
For everyone else who’s wondering why NotParker is acting in such a childish manner: I modded down one of his post because he basically listed a complete system for sale, along with the price and a link to the store selling the system. To me that’s spamming.
Of course, naming a brand name isn’t spamming. However, since NotParker cannot respond logically when his arguments are countered, he resorts to ad hominem attacks, in this case implying I’m acting irrationally by wanting to censor him for saying brand names. Of course, that is completely ridiculous, I don’t believe this for a second. In fact, I myself mentioned that I had a Compaq Presario v2310 laptop in a recent post.
(NotParker thinks I’m stalking him because I like to counter the disinformation he spreads in order to further his pro-MS/anti-Linux agenda.)
I compared the openSUSE install screenshots with Vista’s install and instantly thought that there were way too many choices offerred by openSUSE that would have been tough for the average end user.
Average end users don’t re-install their operating system.
The ones who do know enough about computers to run any nice graphical installation program.
“The Home Basic, Home Premium, and Ultimate editions of Windows Vista include a range of parental controls. An administrator can apply parental control restrictions to other users on the computer. Facilities include:
http://www.censornet.com/product/
AND
Parents can change the group permissions of certain files and programs so that their children, who have their own user account, cannot access them (such as or M rated games). Logging IM conversations is easy in GAIM and Kopete. Perhaps a 3rd party daemon could run in the background that monitors all activity on the kids accounts, while parents can later see a log of the events that occured.
All in all… solutions are already out there for both Windows and GNU/Linux.
All in all… solutions are already out there for both Windows and GNU/Linux.
Except the games children want to play are on Windows. Microsft is adding a lot of new features that many different groups of people want.
Except the games children want to play are on Windows. Microsft is adding a lot of new features that many different groups of people want.
Except those Windows games children want to play most likely run on Linux as well; not to mention the nice selection of educational software and games availible for Linux.
The FLOSS community has added a lot of features that many different groups of people use.
Except those Windows games children want to play most likely run on Linux as well;
Most likely not.
not to mention the nice selection of educational software and games availible for Linux.
Those must be fun.
Most likely not.
Uh… most likely yes.
Those must be fun.
Indeed they are if you happen to be a five year old.
Your personality is certainly reminesent of one. Who know… perhaps it might be true.
Indeed they are if you happen to be a five year old.
Your personality is certainly reminesent of one.
Do you think I’m childish for having my own opinion … or just an opionion different from yours?
The latter seems very common among stalkers and the like.
Do you think I’m childish for having my own opinion … or just an opionion different from yours?
There is a difference:
Your “opinions” are complimented with propaganda.
Your presents here has been nothing other than to ignite flames for your own personal amusement.
Very immature… much like an adolescent.
Your “opinions” are complimented with propaganda.
Ok. You disagree with me.
Your presents here has been nothing other than to ignite flames for your own personal amusement.
Your dislike of WIndows is well known. Why troll a discussion about Vista / Ballmer in it other that for your own personal amusement and to stalk me I guess.
Very immature… much like an adolescent.
Wouldn’t you say that someone who intensely dislikes Windows who participates in a discussion about Vista just to stalk someone and call them names is the immature person?
Edited 2006-12-08 07:35
Web content blocking, including the ability to limit web browsing to “kids websites”, as well as blocking particular categories of content such as “Pornography”, “Drugs”, “Web e-mail”, “Web chat”, and so on. File downloads may also be disabled.
Time limitations on when the account may be used
Restrictions on what kind of games may be played. An administrator may choose from one of five different game rating services: ESRB (United States and Canada), PEGI (Europe), USK (Germany), OFLC (Australia and New Zealand), CERO (Japan). Ratings are used to determine the highest allowed game rating. As with web content blocking, a number of categories of content may also be blocked regardless of game ratings.
Restrictions on what programs may be executed
Activity reports to monitor what was done under Parental Controls
Ability to log actions such as Instant Messaging conversations
The Parental Controls area is “pluggable” allowing applications to add their own settings. For example, a chat program might offer a restriction to only allow the user to enter certain channels, and forbid private conversation outside those channels.”
And you said games children want to play are on windows? Do you want to restrict them or do you want to let them play, then?
forbidding private conversation outside those channels? Have it occurred to you that this is akid to a jail term? When Apartheid was still around, political prisoners also had no chance to converse as they would, and yet they managed to overthrow the government with the leaders in prison doing all of the thinking.
Very well, its possible to do such a thing externally, and it is available in linux too. What is your point? All these parental controls are available long ago, by third parties and for all real systems. What is your point? And is the feature really wanted? Where is your evidence?
NotParker, you HAVE good points, but do you really have to spew loads of crap to hide them? Do you really mean what you mean? Do you have a hidden agenda? And is your face so thick enough that our modding you down does nothing to you? Please, for goodness sake, wise up and not choke up all of OSNews’ comment pages.
And you said games children want to play are on windows? Do you want to restrict them or do you want to let them play, then?
I want the parents to have a choice to let their children play safely.
forbidding private conversation outside those channels? Have it occurred to you that this is akid to a jail term? When Apartheid was still around, political prisoners also had no chance to converse as they would, and yet they managed to overthrow the government with the leaders in prison doing all of the thinking.
Parent Controls = Apartheid? Get real. What is it about Microsoft that makes people bring up the weirdest complaints?
NotParker, you HAVE good points, but do you really have to spew loads of crap to hide them? Do you really mean what you mean? Do you have a hidden agenda? And is your face so thick enough that our modding you down does nothing to you? Please, for goodness sake, wise up and not choke up all of OSNews’ comment pages.
Our modding you down? Is there a group of you working together? Are you in league with the person stalking me?
Do you plan on bullying everyone who likes Windows?
Why is it being politely pro-Vista or pro-Windows “spewing loads of crap”?
Wow. Make the mistake of politely expressing pro-Microsoft opinions and the knives sure come out!
I thought this was OSnews where features of various operating systems are discussed. When did the name change to OSS news?
Why are you trolling a discussion about Ballmer and Microsoft and Windows anyway? Just to cause trouble?
Are you my stalkers nightshift crew?
We already pointed out that linux also have parental controls. What more do you want? Can you stop harping the same tune?
DRM was meant to be more than parental controls, NotParker. You know it yourself. We have stated other ways to use DRM to consumer disbenefit. IT IS NOT DEMOCRATIC and can lead to a scheme similar to what apartheid used.
we modded you down because you are the trouble maker. Archisteel can’t possibly mod you down to -4 alone. I’ve personally modded you up whenever you had good points.
Whenever we had an article on free software or on windows, you take up a quarter of the comments. Tell me who’s the trouble maker?
Personally, I’ve wasted too many mod points on you. Some up, most down. Enough said.
And about being polite, your comments are taking too much space to be polite. And historically, you are not polite. Just like Microsoft and their horrible track record. We will not believe you because of the dubious comments you have made.
This discussion was around Ballmer, MS and windows. Until you commented, and the comments to stop you. Don’t you think thats enough? Stalkers? Is anyone here around you right now? Please stop using that title on the people who know your past comments.
Finally, this is still OSNews. We still talk nicely about all OSes. And I use Windows too. Enough said.
Why are you trolling a discussion about Ballmer and Microsoft and Windows anyway? Just to cause trouble?
That’s pretty hypocritical coming from someone who trolls Linux threads all the time…
forbidding private conversation outside those channels? Have it occurred to you that this is akid to a jail term? When Apartheid was still around, political prisoners also had no chance to converse as they would, and yet they managed to overthrow the government with the leaders in prison doing all of the thinking.
That’s a very good point. These Windows fanboys/astroturfers seem to think that if they can just paint DRM et al in an inoffensive-enough light, people will fall for it.
It reminds me of the opening sequence in the film Biko, in which apartheid-era South African Government troops move into a black township and open fire on the inhabitants without provocation. The next day the incident is reported as “an operation to find Bantus (blacks) without work permits [to work in “white” South Africa]” in which “they encountered little resistance”.
Of course it’s fictionalized, but I bet it faithfully represents the sort of thing that went on. Of course, like the Soviet empire, apartheid South Africa didn’t last long, thank God, because it was built on bullshit.
So my answer to the first paragraph I wrote is that if people are dumb enough to fall for it, you won’t have to go to the trouble of prettying it up. And those that aren’t will see through even the prettifying.
I’ve thought about this, and it *is* a feature some parents would want.
Regardless of a system that is based of filter-out, not filter-in, will never be secure, without parental supervision.
The logging chats I do find very interesting. I’m pretty sure it will only apply to a certain chat-client. I’m not even sure how that would work.
I did think the game filtering was a little surprising, as that definitely seemed both trivial and a bit useless. A parent should know what games their child plays.
I do think this is to give the illusion of parental control, when it is actually a poor replacement to proper parenting.
Ok. You disagree with me.
No. I disagree with your agenda here.
Your dislike of WIndows is well known. Why troll a discussion about Vista / Ballmer in it other that for your own personal amusement and to stalk me I guess.
I don’t dislike Windows. I’ve been using it for the past twelve years. But I also like Linux and think they are worthy competitors. If you want to point out the problems with Linux, I’ll point out the problems I’ve discovered in Windows over the years to fend you away.
You, however, do not like Linux (which is fine) and love emphasizing percieved marketshare statistics as a way of upsetting those who use Linux successfully (not fine).
Wouldn’t you say that someone who intensely dislikes Windows who participates in a discussion about Vista just to stalk someone and call them names is the immature person?
See above.
Did anyone notice that the four pillers have changed?
They used to be these :-
* Avalon: new display subsystem (composition)
* Indigo: communication and web services
* WinFS: structured, schema-based storage
* Fundamentals: getting the basics better (deployment, reliability, performance, security).
Now they are these :-
* desktop and personal productivity
* one is about the enterprise
* entertainment devices
* online.
How many times does it use the word innovation?
The first four pillars were for Vista. The second four are for Microsoft as a company.
I don’t think any of these 8 pillars matter that much.
The best thing Ballmer can do after Vista is fully out the door is resign. The Gates/Ballmer era is or should be well and truly over. It’s brought almost unimaginable wealth and success to Microsoft and Ballmer has proved an indefatigable hard-charging salesman, but imho those are no longer the qualities Microsoft needs.
Microsoft needs to become nimble where it is elephantine, lean where it is bloated and cut the boasting, the gloating and the bullying – plenty of all of these on display in this interview. For example, claiming that you’re effectively number two in the mobile and mp3 markets and will soon own them is utterly risible. Claiming that Windows is going forward as more of the same is completely absurd when organizationally at least, Vista has been a sopa opera come catastrophe.
Microsoft needs to find the humility to start listening to its customers rather than talking down to them and it needs to ask itself why absolutely no one – except apparently Novell – wants to get into bed with them. This interview reminds me of General Westmoreland wittering on in Vietnam while failing to notice that his more innovative opponents has moved on from the era of set-piece battles to a whole new ballgame.
Remind me to mod you up, when I get some modpoints, for two reasons.
First, because you make some very good points.
Secondly, because you manage to make them without mentioning the analogy I would have mentioned for the umpteenth time! ;-P
I’m scratching my head and wondering whether we read the same article. Because I don’t see some of your complaints in the interview at all…
For example, claiming that you’re effectively number two in the mobile and mp3 markets and will soon own them is utterly risible
Would you mind providing a quotation which shows this? Ballmer basically says that Nokia/Symbian and Microsoft are the biggest mobile players, and that he could see mobile device licenses outpacing those of desktops in the future. But I see no mention of “owning” the market. You do understand that growth of Windows mobile licenses doesn’t necessarily equate to Microsoft outpacing Nokia/Symbian, right? It seems clear that you misunderstood that point. Regarding the music market, Ballmer indicates that Zune will “gain ground” on Apple, not that it will “own” the market. It’s not clear where you got that idea. It certainly wasn’t in the article.
Microsoft needs to find the humility to start listening to its customers rather than talking down to them and it needs to ask itself why absolutely no one – except apparently Novell – wants to get into bed with them. This interview reminds me of General Westmoreland wittering on in Vietnam while failing to notice that his more innovative opponents has moved on from the era of set-piece battles to a whole new ballgame
You’re projecting. Based on its growing sales, MS is listening to its customers needs. You may perceive them as arrogant and boastful, but those factors are apparently having little effect on the company’s progress.
Of course the development team for Vista can’t be broken up and sent to new projects. Just think of all the things we were promised in Vista that aren’t there (think WinFS). They will be furiously working on SP1, SP2…
SP1, SP2…
Do you think that by SP2 they will finally have that new virus–protection thingy working right?
I’ll just waith and see.
Why does everyone (windows user) say, Linux is a kernel not an os. Linspire, XandrOS, Mandriva are easier to install/use than Windows. If Linux was such a loser why would Microsoft run so many ditros of Linux and BSD in their R&D centers.
Why does everyone (windows user) say, Linux is a kernel not an os
I don’t hear Windows users saying that. But I hear plenty of Linux users saying that. Why? Because they don’t want the attendant baggage of the thousands of buggy apps associated with “Linux, the kernel”; whereas, they’re all too willing to associate bugs in Microsoft Outlook, Internet Explorer, et al with “Windows, the operating system”.
Linspire, XandrOS, Mandriva are easier to install/use than Windows.
First, ease of installation is a red herring. End users buy packaged computers; they don’t install OSes. Second, I don’t know how much easier OS installation has to get, in order to be “better”; for example, you pop in the Vista disk, click on a couple buttons, and automated setup requires no interaction whatsoever. How is Linspire et al “easier to install” than that?
If Linux was such a loser why would Microsoft run so many ditros of Linux and BSD in their R&D centers.
I’ve never seen statistics detailing how many Linux/BSD boxes Microsoft runs. Where did you get your numbers?
“I don’t hear Windows users saying that. But I hear plenty of Linux users saying that. Why? Because they don’t want the attendant baggage of the thousands of buggy apps associated with “Linux, the kernel”; whereas, they’re all too willing to associate bugs in Microsoft Outlook, Internet Explorer, et al with “Windows, the operating system”. ”
The difference here is that Internet Explorer and other Microsoft applications are (were?) quite difficult for the average schmoe to pull out of Windows, since they were so tied into it.
With Linux distributions (especially ones like Debian that start out with just the kernel and gnu tools) you can literally build your operating system as you see fit around the kernel itself. Hell with a system like Debian you can even change kernels, though of course Linux is the best supported, but they do have a bsd variety as well.
“First, ease of installation is a red herring. End users buy packaged computers; they don’t install OSes. Second, I don’t know how much easier OS installation has to get, in order to be “better”; for example, you pop in the Vista disk, click on a couple buttons, and automated setup requires no interaction whatsoever. How is Linspire et al “easier to install” than that? ”
The thing that counts in ‘ease of installation’ is how usable is the Operating System after first install.
An example, Windows XP (if installed from just the plain Microsoft Windows XP install CD) has no firewall (I’m talking pre SP2), no decent word processor, lack of a lot of network drivers, etc.
Something like Linspire or other Linux distributions have basically all the apps you would need installed right off the bat, so you don’t have to spend hours searching for drivers or little applications like an archive manager.
It’s even worse with OEM versions of Windows XP that install crap like AOL, or MSN Explorer.
An example, Windows XP (if installed from just the plain Microsoft Windows XP install CD) has no firewall (I’m talking pre SP2)
Yes. It had a firewall from RTM. It just wasn’t on by default. And it was improved in SP2 and on by default.
XP had a firewall from RTM. It just wasn’t on by default. And it was improved in SP2 and on by default.
Microsoft’s Linux lab at Redmond does run various distros of Linux and bsd for testing purposes etc, there are various articles on the net just search for “Microsoft linux labs”. A few I thought were interesting:
http://interviews.slashdot.org/interviews/05/08/08/1247220.shtml
http://www.microsoft-watch.com/content/operating_systems/meet_the_h…
Linux has no appreciable presence within MS. For example, MS isn’t running its business on Linux. The Linux lab is all about looking for value-add — mostly around interoperability — for Microsoft’s big ‘nix customers.
>>So, this one has been more flattish in size, and the >>others have been increasing more.
I still say Balmer’s an idiot. Look out, he’s got a chair!