“Firefox 2 Release Candidate 2 is a preview release of our next generation Firefox browser and is being made available for download to Web application developers, our testing community and users who want to get a sneak peek at the next version of Firefox. Please note that at this time, users should not expect all of their extensions, plugins and themes from previous versions of Firefox to work properly.” Update: A guide on how to make old extensions work or port over to 2.0.
The theme is so bad it hurts. I honestly can’t believe this is going out to millions of people. It looks like a basic artist has put together what ever looks “cool” without any thought about usability.
The icons are barely recognisable, esp. at small size. Small size doesn’t give you any extra vertical height, the tabs are non native, hard to differentiate between the front ones, and the close button is on the wrong side for the Mac. This theme is a train wreck.
You must be blind, the icons are much better than RC1 so what ever you do, dont give up your day job and be graphics artist.
Thankfully things have improved since RC1. The Home button is now clearer than before, and whilst the new refresh button is odd and different, it’s drawn cleanly, the RC1 refresh looked like it had been sized-down by MSPaint.
I’m dissapointed mostly by the lack of chrome changes. Both Opera and IE7 have +Tab buttons by default. Firefox is quickly falling behind.
Both Opera and IE7 have +Tab buttons by default. Firefox is quickly falling behind.
Seriously? this is what you don’t like? A default?
I never even noticed because I have had a +tab and +window button on my toolbar since 1.0.x days – and every time I upgrade, it stays there… It takes all of 15 seconds to customize the toolbar and add it.
That’s not the point. I’ve never known a regular Joe user that has been able to add a tab button themselves, and thus just never discover tabs. For every Firefox install I do, I have to then add a tab button to the interface, and then explain it to them.
Full ack, I really hate it, especially the new tab bar. And also hovering of icons is now gray, although I have a blue GTK theme.
Typical Opera vs Firefox debate:
Firefox User: Opera is bloated.
Opera User: Opera does useful stuff like gestures and gives better control over tabs etc. It has more features.
Firefox User: That can all be added to Firefox through extensions.
Without taking sides in that debate (I mainly use Konqueror), “Please note that at this time, users should not expect all of their extensions, plugins and themes from previous versions of Firefox to work properly.” is one reason I would prefer Opera’s method of having it built in. You just never know if all your addons will continue to work.
A while ago my Tabbrowser Preferences extension (temporarily at least) ceased being updated and no longer worked with newer versions of Firefox. Of course I was able to replace it with Tab Mix Plus. However, having features break and scrambling to find replacements is not really what I want to do with my browser. Not to mention all these extensions I install are from third parties, and sometimes conflict with each other.
I think the extensions are a great idea. Adblock was a very useful one. Opera users, lacking extensions, had to wait on the Opera devs to add equivalent functionality, which took a while. (They have added it now of course, which means Opera users don’t have to go find and install it like Firefox users do).
Each way has ups and downs. Extensions let Firefox users get features quicker (though they have to worry about versions and conflicts and third parties) while Opera’s way lets its users get everything builtin and from one source, though some features mat not exist, or take a while longer to get there since they can’t be implemented by anyone but Opera itself.
Anyway, the above quote illustrates why, in my opinion, for someone who just wants things to work the builtin way might be preferable.
I honestly don’t understand why there’s a Firefox vs Opera debate at all in the first place. As a web designer, both have excellent standards support and are easy to program for. I have no qualm with Opera users, why would I, unless I had some kind of baseless jihad against people that don’t agree with me.
As long as people are using anything other than IE (for now), then I’m happy. We’re all supporting better acceptance of alternatives and standards by not using IE. In-fighting is just pathetic, really.
What if people don’t like the builtin features? i find gestures useless and annoying.
I almost cry when have to use browsers not supporting mouse gestures. I think it is vital feature. All these gestures makes web browsing so smooth. Sure it was unusual at the beginning, but now it is implanted to my brain I guess
I will second THAT!!
What if people don’t like the builtin features? i find gestures useless and annoying.
Just about every feature in Opera can be turned off if it isn’t needed. For example, the first time you perform a mouse gesture in Opera, it asks you if you want to continue using gestures, if you find them useless and annoying then you’ll never encounter them again. Features contained in toolbars and panels can easily be removed with a quick right click, if you want a minimalist browser then you can completely strip the UI in a minute or two.
In my opinion turning off the features you don’t use is a lot quicker than downloading extensions to add the features you do want. Especially when you take into account extension management issues such as incompatibility between different browser versions.
Of course the advantage of extensions is that they can provide esoteric features for specific tasks that would probably never be added to a commercial product like Opera. If someone needs those added features then Firefox is a better choice, but the only extensions I’d want provide features that are already built into Opera.
If Opera was bloated and slow due to all the features being built in, then there’d be a good argument for them to be optional add-ons, but that obviously isn’t the case.
Here’s a decent list comparing popular Firefox extensions with Opera’s features: http://files.myopera.com/Rijk/blog/extensions.html
Fair enough.
What if people don’t like the builtin features? i find gestures useless and annoying.
The first time you use one Opera asks you whether you want to have them disabled or enabled. After that you can change it in preferences.
Typical Opera vs Firefox debate:
Firefox User: Opera is bloated.
Opera User: Opera does useful stuff like gestures and gives better control over tabs etc. It has more features.
Firefox User: That can all be added to Firefox through extensions.
Nitpick… The Firefox user’s argument falls apart because Firefox is as bloated as Opera in current versions, if not more so, even without any extensions.
>> Nitpick… The Firefox user’s argument falls apart
>> because Firefox is as bloated as Opera in current
>> versions, if not more so, even without any
>> extensions.
That’s being polite, Let’s compare:
Opera 9.02 – 4.06 Megs US, 6.5 megs international (all language support)
—————————
78k .exe, 3.11 megs in .dlls,
total default directory size after install – 7.96 megs
Pop/iMap E-mail Client – Built in
RSS Reader – Built in
User Javascripting – Built in
Session Saving – Built in
User Assigned Keyboard shortcuts – Built in
Undo closing a tab – Built in via the trash can
Firefox 1.5.7 – 4.9 megs English – separate downloads for internationalization (yeah, that’s got to be efficient)
—————————
7 meg .exe, 2.19 megs in DLL’s,
total default directory size after install – 17.5 megs
Pop/iMap E-Mail Client – Separate download that’s bigger than the browser (Thunderbird)
RSS Reader – ‘Live Bookmarks’, a far cry from an actual RSS reader… again, available as an add-on.
User Javascripting – Greasemonkey add-on
Session saving – add-on
Undo closing a tab – add-on
User Assigned Keyboard shortcuts – add-on (nextplease)
Let’s see, it’s a smaller download, MUCH smaller disk footprint (to the tune of three times smaller) AND has 90%+ of the stuff people ‘add on’ to firefox built in? Yeah, that’s more bloated, sure it is… sounds more like people don’t understand what the word ‘bloat’ means.
I’m just wondering who modded you down for daring to point that out…
Bloat is not the same as size. Firefox is heavy, not entirely bloated (but not perfect). Remember that Firefox runs on top of XUL, a run time environment that lets people create web-based and local applications regardless of OS.
The wealth and depth of the extensions for Firefox show the ability of XUL, the added ‘bloat’ is a pay off for making it 1) easy to write powerful extensions that would otherwise be difficult to program directly, and 2) anybody can write for Firefox, extending it in ways that not even Opera could think up.
Firefox could always be better, at least it’s open source and anybody can help with the workload if they are rightly inclined. (It’s a steep task to face Gecko)
>> The wealth and depth of the extensions for Firefox
>> show the ability of XUL
and all it’s shortcomings… Like a tasking model that is buggy as sin and a memory model that is much the same.
The entire browser shouldn’t “Hang” just because I did a save-as and the server I’m connecting to is being a little slow… or worse a server that doesn’t even exist hanging the browser until the connection times out. The download manager and most of the extensions show just how piss-poor the tasking model is every time you do something with them, AND has resulted in a great many buggy extensions that result in people pointing the finger everywhere except where the problem really lies – in the design of firefox itself… Of course, if you read up on the ‘memory feature’ (or as the rest of the world calls it, LEAK) one of the first things they suggest is to disable extensions… being the problem is excasterbated by the use of the downloads manager (Speaking of parts of the browser that need to be taken out behind the woodshed and put down hard) this leads to the conclusion the problem may lie in XUL… something supported by the fact that K-Meleon doesn’t have the problem… Even though Mozilla suite had similar issues pre-dating FF so who knows.
[…] this leads to the conclusion the problem may lie in XUL… something supported by the fact that K-Meleon doesn’t have the problem… Even though Mozilla suite had similar issues pre-dating FF so who knows.
Mozilla suite also used (and still uses) XUL.
Remember that Firefox runs on top of XUL, a run time environment that lets people create web-based and local applications regardless of OS
This memory-hogging environment brings nothing but slowness and inconsistency to end-users. NOTHING.
Memory hogging has little to do with XUL. Gecko (Fx’s rendering engine) simply needs to be optimized and take advantage of hardware graphics acceleration (coming in Fx3)
Pop/iMap E-Mail Client – Separate download that’s bigger than the browser (Thunderbird)
People rarely use barebone email clients nowadays. They either use a full featured PIM suite (Outlook, Evolution etc.) or they use webmail.
Session saving – add-on
New feature from Fx2: Session Restore. Check the Options dialogue. Did you even bother to try the program?
Undo closing a tab – add-on
New feature from Fx2: “list of recently closed tabs”. Check the History menu. Again, did you even bother to try the program or read the release notes?
User Assigned Keyboard shortcuts – add-on (nextplease)
Add-on features: FoxyTunes (next please…) Oh wait, Opera will never be able to implement that feature without being accused of feature bloat.
Edited 2006-10-09 00:47
Someone who was offended, I guess. Getting modded down is something you have to expect if you point out flaws in peoples’ favorite things – Firefox, Linux, whatever.
For what it’s worth, Opera is actually rather bloated on Linux, the Linux version uses QT which makes it a 15 MB download. Unless you’re using KDE, in which case you’ve already got a good (if not as featureful) browser. The GUI is also fairly sluggish on Linux – not sure why that is, QT isn’t what I’d call slow. Startup speeds are better than for Firefox though, and the memory usage is about the same, which is something considering all the features.
(I’m not exactly a huge fan of Opera – some things about it have always acted a bit funny for me – but I really appreciate that someone out there is actually putting in some effort to make a good multiplatform browser, be it proprietary or otherwise.)
Opera is actually rather bloated on Linux, the Linux version uses QT which makes it a 15 MB download.
Opera uses QT on all supported platforms, including Win32 and OS X.
According to the result of a browser speed test, Fx is most optimized for Linux.
According to the result of a browser speed test, Fx is most optimized for Linux.
Really? It always seemed much slower in Linux than Windows for me. Where are these results?
Here: http://www.howtocreate.co.uk/browserSpeed.html
From the “Conclusions” section: “Ok, ok. Firefox and Mozilla are clearly optimised for Linux, and Opera is clearly optimised for Windows.”
Note that I take no responsibilities for other people’s claims
I swear even one of the Firefox devs said it is more optimized for Windows, but maybe that’s changed.
Each way has ups and downs. Extensions let Firefox users get features quicker (though they have to worry about versions and conflicts and third parties) while Opera’s way lets its users get everything builtin and from one source, though some features mat not exist, or take a while longer to get there since they can’t be implemented by anyone but Opera itself.
My beef with firefox is the fact that out of the box it is bigger and bulkier than a standard opera install before you start adding extensions. And then I’d find the extensions break with the frequent minor point upgrades to firefox. The final straw that made me switch was flash and the fact that it brought FF to a crawl, if not crash. Flashblock worked for a while, except that sometimes you need the flash loaded, and then there was an incompatibility with adblock. etc. etc.
I really liked firefox, used it starting back at v0.7 and for a while never looked back. But personally I think it’s lost it’s way.
What I’d really like to see is a firefox redux, maybe drop the XUL baggage etc. and make it into a slimline, fast browser designed only for browsing. Basically like Epiphany, a simple gui around a gecko engine.
Either way, at least there’s viable options now. If you want uber-tweakability and extensability, there’s FF. If you want tightly integrated features with a small footprint, there’s Opera. If you want slim and fast, there’s Konq or Webkit. Choice always reigns supreme.
“What I’d really like to see is a firefox redux, maybe drop the XUL baggage etc. and make it into a slimline, fast browser designed only for browsing. Basically like Epiphany, a simple gui around a gecko engine.”
Basically, Camino. It doesn’t even have RSS. There’s a million RSS readers already. Shame it’s OS X only, it’s a real trim and fast browser (many argue that it’s faster than Safari)
If you use Windows, there is K-meleon.
What I’d really like to see is a firefox redux, maybe drop the XUL baggage etc. and make it into a slimline, fast browser designed only for browsing. Basically like Epiphany, a simple gui around a gecko engine.
XUL is not baggage. It’s the technology used to build Firefox’ GUI! It is also very easy to create, which means you can create GUIs that conform to the native HIG for each platform. It makes use of Gecko to render everything, so it’s not like XUL adds noticeable bloat.
It does add noticable bloat actually.
Not to say it doesn’t serve a purpose though, because it does. All those extensions would not exist without it.
I think the extensions are a great idea
I’m sure it is.It’s the extensions in the end that make the browser worthwhile: fAdblock,webdeveloper,tabbrowser preferences,foxyproxy (tor network),downthemall,pdfdownload,showip,serverspy,etc
None of which exist for any other browser.And firefox seems to act normal regardless wether ipv6 functionality is on or not,in contrast to for example Konqueror who loads pages very slow.
The tabs in FF are always full-window, not MDI like in opera. No extension can change that and it makes popup in tab very weird.
Also, a lot of ff extensions break up even with minor version change; most of them are not usable if you want to stay with the latest FF.
Opera would be a much better choice if you’re satisfied with its built-in functions.
Nice default theme.
The whole seems to be more snappier on linux.I like the anti-phishing tool (“Get me out of here”,heh).
####
It would be nice if they got the bugs out of the version for Linux, I would use Konquerer but the plug-ins and java is not easy to configure or it does not work corectly (even tho I feel it is superior). I use Firefox in Linux and have since 1999 or so and it seems like some problems just get patched over or just never resolved.
The extensions & themes are nice features, but it needs more polish since in Linux it is the only one.
How did you get ahold of Firefox in 1999? Or any stable Mozilla release for that matter? The rest of us were still stuck with Netscape 4.x at that time…
Sorry I was meaning Netscape, it was really unstable in Linux back then and no plug-ins if any at all.
I like FireFox but seems like with each release the same bugs/problems go with it.
I am too lazy to download it. Any screenshots of this supposedly bad UI?
Seriously, I’m not sure what Kroc was referring to… The windows version shows some slight 3d effects on the tabs/tabbar – the toolbar icons are slightly modified… otherwise it doesn’t look all that different from FF 1.5
As for extensions – As I have found with the one extension I used that didn’t “work” with FF 2.0 – was that the install.rdf file just needed to be modified to set the max version from 1.5.0.x to 2.x – then it works fine.
I seriously can’t believe the “bloated” argument is still being discussed… and comparisons to Opera are pointless for the large number of us that use Firefox primarily because it’s FOSS.
http://camendesign.com/kroc/stuff/ffx2rc2.png
I am too lazy to download it. Any screenshots of this supposedly bad UI?
netpython.blogspot.com
http://img239.imageshack.us/img239/8877/ffxwinok8.jpg
Eh.
I would like to remove or have the ‘choice’ to remove the search bar (google) from FireFox because I never use it.
Is there an extension to where you can get rid of it, I find it annoying and I do not like being forced to use a search bar where the URL should be displayed.
Right click on toolbar and customise, then drag the search bar off? Works for me.
I would like to remove or have the ‘choice’ to remove the search bar (google) from FireFox because I never use it.
I hope not, i use it more than a couple of 100 times a day at least:-)
Rightclick on the toolbar, click Customize, then drag away the search bar. Have you seriously never tried this?
I’m not sure about Firefox 2, but in Firefox 1.5.0.7 if you go to View –> Toolbars –> Customize then grab the search bar then drag it from the toolbar on Firefox and drop it into the box with the rest of the items it should get rid of it. I just tried it and it worked for me.
No I have not even tried that, I guess if it was a snake it would have bit me!
That worked perfectly, that blindsided me!
thanks
The guide link is broken and points to “Memoirs of a Geisha” – weird!
The actual URI for the RC2 plugin guide _isn’t_ a link to Memoirs of a Geisha
It’s http://neosmart.net/blog/archives/120
I think it’s an improvement from 1.5 and it also looks better than IE. I don’t understand why some people or whining about it. It’s basically the same as 1.5 with a slightly more three dimensional look.
hahah, how is plugins and java not easy to configure?
Java?
Settings -> Configure konqueror -> Java & JavaScript.
now enable the checkbox saying: “Enable java globally”, and WOOT, java is enabled (or if java is not available in your PATH, enter the path to the java executable in the field.)
Plugins?
Settings -> Configure konqueror -> Plugins.
now enable checkbox saying: “Enable plugins globally”, and woot, all ns plugins are enabled, and if they are not in the default paths for ns plugins konqueror has, simply add the desired path, and press the “scan for new plugins” button, and you are set to go!
Well, if you compare FireFox to Internet Explorer in the URL mistype or invalid IE will hang up the system in Windows. However FireFox will just display not found or invalid without no fanfare.
Little touches like this make the browser a lot better.
>> Internet Explorer in the URL mistype or invalid
>> IE will hang up the system in Windows
Say WHAT? Since {censored} when?
Do I even want to KNOW what you are talking about – IE may have a lot of faults, but that’s a new one on me.
The Mac OS X version is much, much better than 1.5.0.x.
Flash content actually moves much more quickly–or isn’t slowed as much, depending on your viewpoint. Overall, pages look better, there are few crashes, and it works more quickly.
If you use another browser, that’s fine, but you might want to take another look at Firefox. There is no perfect browser but Firefox is better. Sure, there are still problems with XUL but those problems are being addressed with Gecko version 1.9 and native GUI widgets. Of course, these most likely won’t be seen until Firefox version 3 but that’s already in development.
I installed ff 2.0rc2 under win32. Priorior to that I had removed old versions and old user pref files. I just hoped it won’t freeze like in beta1, beta2 and rc1. I installed chatzilla, adblock_plus, etc. Then when I ran chatzilla, it froze again! I guess it will also freeze when opening several pages very quickly. I cannot imagine how it could become a release version, if such a problem exists for so long a time and is still not fixed.
Ha! I may have found the answer. This page “MZ KB – FF Hangs” http://kb.mozillazine.org/Firefox_hangs said that the freeze may because of CPU HT, or use proxy to resolve non-exist site https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=235853 .I use FoxyProxy instead of TorButton which is not updated to ff2. It doesn’t seem to be HT issue, since 1.5.0.x works fine. So I’ll disable FoxyProxy for a while.
I wish there was a way to stop Opera from intercepting multimedia keyboard presses.
Pressing Next make opera go forward a page, and pressing Previous Track makes Opera go back a page.
Volume up/down commands are intercepted and never reach Windows.
That’s the only thing that pisses me off about Opera.
>> I wish there was a way to stop Opera from
>> intercepting multimedia keyboard presses.
Huh, that’s an odd one… I suspect that’s your keyboard, not Opera, since I’ve not seen that on any of the laptops I have or the one machine with the logitech keyboard… Difficult to check on this machine though being it’s got a Model M.
I suspect you can likely ‘fix’ that behavior in tools > preferences > advanced > shortcuts… you just have to figure out what’s being sent that’s tripping it.
I have the Logitech Internet Keyboard (6.99 USD at BestBuy with mail in rebate), but I don’t install the software for it – the multimedia keys automatically work with XP, Vista, and Linux.
…when I can remove the blinking bookmarks that come with the browser? I mean sure it’s great they have something in there to get me started and all, but I have my own bookmarks and I don’t need their folders taking up space in my list as well as always loading when I open the damn browser. I want MY bookmarks to show. Not THEIRS! And no I couldn’t care less about the headlines of the day–it’s bad news and I don’t need to hear it.
–bornagainpenguin