Dru Lavigne explains the basics of DesktopBSD. “DesktopBSD provides many features that will allow a complete Unix novice to start using the operating system immediately.” She concludes: “If you have been hesitant to try FreeBSD because you heard the install was difficult or were afraid you would have problems configuring the GUI or sound or networking, now is a great time to take the plunge. Both PC-BSD and DesktopBSD provide you with a fully configured, ready to use system so you can be up and running in under half an hour.”
Good review. Too bad DesktopBSD devs are bashing PC-BSD about “not being FreeBSD enough” and restricting usage of DesktopBSD “crown jewel” Ports Manager in PC-BSD is just really strange/unbelievable in Open Source world. I hope we can resolve this issue and continue working together without throwing shit left and right.
Excuse me about my harsh words. I am not a diplomat so someone else have to talk beautiful words and strike hands to end possible war of two operating systems that is more like brothers…
Andrei Kolu
PC-BSD Quality Manager
Andrei, this is getting ridiculous. We never bashed PC-BSD for “not being FreeBSD enough”, although this might be the personal opinion of some of our users. The problem we had with you in DesktopBSD forums was not about PC-BSD itself, but about your very own behaviour. You kept posting “PC-BSD does this so much better”, “This works without any problems in PC-BSD”, etc. all the time. This was not only extremely unhelpful to the users trying to find solutions to DesktopBSD issues there, it was also very impolite.
I can’t see any war here and I think you should stop badmouthing DesktopBSD on every occasion.
I never said those words: “PC-BSD does this so much better”– this is your delusion. I said that we already solved some particular problem and it would be good if you look at our code and fix yours.
>and restricting usage of DesktopBSD “crown jewel” Ports >Manager in PC-BSD is just really strange/unbelievable in Open >Source world.
This is a very big lie. Can you spell it? You do not have any legal obligation to do so. It was a polite request toward Kris Moore. Of course people can use it, it’s in the ports – so where is your problem? Do it as always with your very rude behavior, but please do not spread lies!
Stop this nonsense now. You have a very sick attitude – get a life! Isn’t this “PC-BSD Quality Manager” the false description? Maybe “PC-BSD propaganda manager”.
For German readers, my advertising for PC-BSD,
http://www.fixmbr.de/index.php/2006/05/30/pc-bsd-v11-freebsd-fur-je…
http://www.fixmbr.de/index.php/2006/05/01/pc-bsd-der-1-eindruck/
http://www.fixmbr.de/index.php/2006/04/30/pc-bsd-v10-final/
http://desktopbsd.net/forums/index.php
People can read for themself and decide whether there is any kind of “bashing”.
For all other readers, Mr. Kolu doesn’t know the diffrence between sick hype and healthy engagement. His attitude “please join us or die”.
Further, PC-BSD does some things in a different way, like this thing with the scheduler, the rather untested ULE scheduler instead of the stable and proven 4BSD scheduler, PBI packages and so on. So it DOES things in a different way than regular FreeBSD 6.1 release! If I say this, and remember, only in our forum(!), it’s the same thing like Ubuntu<>Debian or maybe Fedora<>RedHat Enterprise server and so on. So if this is bashing, what is this, Mr. Kolu is doing here at OSNews?
Where is our “bashing”, if there is any, in this PC-BSD 1.2 posting at OSNews for example? Nowhere! Because we don’t need this sick hype of yours!
>Excuse me about my harsh words. I am not a diplomat so >someone else have to talk beautiful words and strike hands >to end possible war of two operating systems that is more >like brothers…
Hypocrite! Brothers? Do you know Cain and Abel?
” I hope we can resolve this issue and continue working together without throwing shit left and right. ”
You can not work with a pack of lie as foundation. If people do not voluntary team up with Mr. Kolu, he will get very angry. You see it, some people can not live in freedom with others. It’s a pity, but I am also hoping this was the last outburst on his warefare against other systems.
Mr. Kolu this isn’t Linux (please Linux users don’t get this the wrong way), it’s not Gentoo, you are not god and like in Linuxland it is possible to coexist without to team up. And do you know the terms democracy, opensource, free mind? Think about it!
And please remember it’s about you, not PCBSD, you are the one with the bad attitude. I don’t think Kris Moore incoporates such a bad behavior. You do not have to be a diplomat, to be a polite human being!
Oliver Herold
P.S. Andrei Kolu, it’s about choice – do your thing, but let other people do their thing …
Edited 2006-07-16 00:01
Please, please, I do not want to enter any war between two open source initiatives. It would be a nonsense to begin a battle between DesktopBSD and PC-BSD.
However, I have a question about DesktopBSD’s GUI port manager. Oliver said : “Of course people can use it, it’s in the ports”.
Well, this remark astonished me : the last time I installed the desktopbsd-tools on my FreeBSD 6.1, I did not seen them. I have just upgraded my ports and taken a look in the pkg-plist, I do not see any file that may be the port manager.
What did I miss ?
Hi Mediv,
from the pkg-plist:
bin/dbsd-pkgmgr
share/applnk/System/dbsd-pkgmgr.desktop
share/applnk/Settings/System/dbsdpackages.desktop
If you’re using KDE, the package manager should automatically appear in K Menu > System and in the KDE control center, otherwise you can directly run the dbsd-pkgmgr binary.
Peter
“from the pkg-plist: bin/dbsd-pkgmgr”
Ok. I am a bit ashamed to have missed it 🙂
Just a whish on PC-BSD and Desktop-BSD projects. I wholeheartly hope these projects will merge a day or another.
My first reason is that I currently tend to install PC-BSD in order to benefit from the PBI system. It is very good to quickly install huge programs like firefox, openoffice, java…
And thanks to the DesktopBSD tools in the port system, marvellous add-ons like the port manager tool can be used to have up-to-date programs and to install the ones that are not under a PBI format.
I am just a bit sad that the opposite is not possible (using PC-BSD tools in DesktopBSD). I do not want to reduce DesktopBSD to a set of tools, because its developers have done a great work. But it is currently how I “use” it, just to benefit from the best of the two “desktop distributions”.
It would be great if PC-BSD tools where available from ports too. To have a PBI système on DesktopBSD for examples, or… on a “classic” FreeBSD.
My second reason is that I would prefer to avoid a multiplication of “distributions” like for linux. For my job, I had to choose a “desktop” linux distribution for my colleagues. Phew, it is really quite hard, each distribution having its pros and cons…
With a unique “destkop” FreeBSD, it is more easy. As I said, I tend to install PC-BSD as I know it will be possible to use DesktopBSD tools.
My dream : one “classic” version of FreeBSD, and one “desktop” one. With the possibility to have the full “desktop” version by installing the needed programs from ports. And the “desktop” one allowing to use FreeBSD as if no “desktop” tools were installed (i.e. no compatibility problem).
You can not work with a pack of lie as foundation. If people do not voluntary team up with Mr. Kolu, he will get very angry. You see it, some people can not live in freedom with others. It’s a pity, but I am also hoping this was the last outburst on his warefare against other systems.
Mr. Kolu this isn’t Linux (please Linux users don’t get this the wrong way), it’s not Gentoo, you are not god and like in Linuxland it is possible to coexist without to team up. And do you know the terms democracy, opensource, free mind? Think about it!
First you won`t let us to use Ports Manager and then you talk me about democracy, opensource and free mind?
Listen to yourself. Calm down. I apologised TWICE if not more about my previous harsh words in forums (these word are against some moderator not DBSD) and you still pushing your personal vendetta on me. I have nothing against DesktopBSD or any Linux distribution.
P.S. Thank you for editing your previous post.
antik – to say you are rude, crude, immature, and a very poor representative of the PC-BSD Team, is to greatly understate the case!
Back in August of 2005, you posted this on the DesktopBSD forums:
” Tue Aug 16, 2005 12:24 pm
PCBSD .pbi package management
I’d like to have .pbi package management in DesktopBSD.”
What is interesting here is that on July 4, 2005 – you became a member of the PC-BSD forums, and you are listed as a member of the PC-BSD Team. So – it appears you were working for PC-BSD there – and trolling on the DBSD forums. Shame, shame.
Then, on June 14, 2006, in a DBSD forum thread titled, “Google bar on konqueror” – you chime in with this:
“Wed Jun 14, 2006 12:26 pm
PC-BSD got Google search toolbar by default. I don’t know how to configure it though.”
And later in that same thread, when told by a forum advisor not to continue with the ‘PC-BSD can do this …’ game on the DBSD forums, you respond this way:
“Wed Jun 14, 2006 12:39 pm
f–k off with your not invented here crap!”
Very nice antik. You are a real credit to the PC-BSD Team.
In that same post, Peter Hofer – the creator or DesktopBSD – in a very measured response, adds this with regard to you posts on the DBSD forums:
“Wed Jun 14, 2006 9:33 pm
I have to agree with Oliver here. This one and the majority of your other posts are hardly helpful and only point out that PC-BSD is superior to DesktopBSD in some way. These forums are for discussions about and support for DesktopBSD; telling users here that PC-BSD does this or that better doesn’t solve their issues with DesktopBSD and is also rather impolite behavior.
Peter”
So, now you have been asked and warned about your forum behavior on the DBSD forums. But does that stop you? Oh no!
On June 14, 2006, you strike again on the DBSD forums, initiating a thread titled, “DBSD forum colors and more annoyances” – you again attack DBSD and it’s forums, all the while functioning as a member of the PC-BSD Team. You wrote:
“Wed Jun 14, 2006 12:30 pm
DBSD forum colors and more annoyances
Guys, you have to do something about colors in this forum- hard to read and my eyes already tired of this theme. Why the heck I can’t post reply stright to other user posting- I have to post blank one and copy other information manually. This is so annoying. Now I understand why this forum got not so many registered users…
Back to PC-BSD forums…”
What business is it of yours, and why do you continue to harass the DBSD forums? And when challenged about it by a forum advisor – you respond this way:
“Wed Jun 14, 2006 12:38 pm
WTF?
You can’t stand critics?”
This sparked a rather protracted conversation where you (antik) came under fire from a host of DBSD users, forum managers, and ever Peter Hofer once again who wrote:
“Tue Jul 04, 2006 5:52 pm
I think we have had enough of this now. This thread was pointless from the very beginning, so I locked it now.
antik, we don’t have a problem with the fact that you prefer PC-BSD over DesktopBSD. As long as you respect that these forums are about helping DesktopBSD users and discussing DesktopBSD software and topics, you are welcome here.
Unfortunately, the vast majority of your posts are not helpful at all. In fact, you are constantly stating that PC-BSD does things much better than DesktopBSD without any arguments. This behavior is neither respectful nor appropriate and only serves the purpose of driving users away.
We think you should consider changing your behavior. It would be sad if there was a sequel in this.”
Peter was right on the mark. From what I know and have observed of Peter he is a very calm and measured man (unlike some of us who are really fed up with your trolling). Even Peter though, had had enough by this time.
Yes, it would be “sad if there was a sequel in this” – but there is one, because you have brought that sequel here to OSNews in your comments on this review. Well – enough. As a DesktopBSD user – who has used PC-BSD and bears it no ill will, but who simply prefers DesktopBSD, I am calling on the PC-BSD Team to do something about your behavior. As a member of that team, antik represents you all. So his behavior on the DBSD forums reflects on all of you, on Kris Moore (the creator of PC-BSD), and on the PC-BSD project itself.
It’s time for this to stop, and since antik seems incapable of self-control, it behooves the PC-BSD Team to put a leash and a muzzle on him for the good of both projects. I apologize to all for having to address this here – but antik brought it public, and it is time to call his hand.
–Theoden
Yes this is a very good saying and I am sorry that I took the same path like antik. Rude behavior and hype isn’t the path for FreeBSD. So I am very sorry, good luck to PCBSD and Kris Moore.
Oliver.
DesktopBSD is a no go for me on my laptop
I think its fate to not be able to load DesktopBSD or PC-BSD on this machine. Stupid Compaq and amd64 chips.
I think its a good idea for DesktopBSD to compile with i686 optimizations as well. Very few computers older than a Pentium Pro will be running DesktopBSD.
Do you need this really? I don’t think so, it’s maybe a minimal performance gain, but perhaps a great pain in compability. Maybe you can optimize some ports, but again there is the possiblity to break something. And in the end, DesktopBSD is for Desktop Users. If you like to hardcore optimize, try Gentoo.
And do not forget, FreeBSD isn’t about hype, it’s fast and stable.
If the core team decides optimizin the kernel, the will do it and then i will thrust them, because the know. And I know I am not a cheap beta tester of them. FreeBSD is truth, just a real operating system.
I generally agree with the statement about the performance gains from optimizations being minimal.
That being said, I wouldn’t mind optimization for the most commonly used platform that much – as long as binary compatibility for at least 586 is kept (ie. compile with “-march=pentium -mcpu=pentiumpro”, or whatever the equivalent options for the currently used gcc are).
Also, the statement “optimize for 686, drop support for older CPUs” is rather misleading because there are 586-class CPUs like the K6 (-2/-3) which are newer than the original P6 (the P6 is so old, it doesn’t even support MMX).
Guys, please stop this. If you want to argue please do it privately. damn.
#Edit# Corrected typo
Edited 2006-07-16 00:37
I agree… please stop.
On FreeBSD-6.x please! Any target release dates?
August 2006, be prepared.
Best regards, Daniel
When is FreeBSD going issue a patch for the nve timeout problem?
Every 3 secs the I/O stalls,this really prevents people with nvidia chipset based motherboard from enjoying Desktop/PC-BSD.
Most of the NVE problems have been Fixed in HEAD and I believe MFC’d to 6.1 Stable.
Most of the NVE problems have been Fixed in HEAD and I believe MFC’d to 6.1 Stable.
Nope.DesktopBSD is FreeBSD 6.1 p2 and still has nve timeout issues.
No Desktopbsd is based on FreeBSD 5.5. The next release is based on 6. PC-BSD is based on 6.1 release which doesn’t have the NVE fix’s.
No Desktopbsd is based on FreeBSD 5.5. The next release is based on 6. PC-BSD is based on 6.1 release which doesn’t have the NVE fix’s.
Very good,now i don’t have any cons left 🙂
I’m downloading DesktopBSD as we speak to test it.
Edited 2006-07-16 17:58
I’ve got a sick feeling in my stomach… it looks like the tremendous potential of BSD is going to be pissed away in the same style as Linux where every man & his dog has created his own personal adhoc incompatible flavour of ‘Linux’.
Please god don’t let it happen…
Edited 2006-07-16 11:18
I’ve had this feeling ever since DragonFlyBSD came out; then shortly after that PC-BSD and DesktopBSD.
I would hate to see the BSD world fragment like the Linux world.
I’m glad windows isn’t fragmented:-) (1xnothing is enough).
For the rest i personnally like the freedom of choice.
This is in fact nonsense, because there is nothing incompatible in DesktopBSD, it’s no distro like in Linux, it is preconfigured. DragonFlyBSD maybe a fork but they work together, this means something flows always backs. The same is true for all BSDs, it doesn’t matter whether it’s FreeBSD, OpenBSD or NetBSD.
In Linux there is a kernel and GNU userland, a distro defines how to assemble this parts in an UNIX-alike way – so it’s a huge difference to common BSD systems. BSD does the real stuff, it doesn’t mimic Unix 🙂
“I would hate to see the BSD world fragment like the Linux world.”
So this saying fits in Linux-world, but it doesn’t fit in BSD-world. There is no hype, no mumbu jumbo, there is truth, no false promises. If you can’t stand truth or a real, stable and fast operating system stick with Linux or Windows, they are in need of people who hype around the globe.
OSNews is a very good news site, but its comments are a very bad experience, because of the many anonymous “guests” in there.
So read it, understand it or kick it, but don’t count on any further reactions to this sick nonsense started here.
Live long and prosper 🙂
http://shots.osdir.com/slideshows/slideshow.php?release=604&slide=2…