Submitted by It seems that some well-known users are switching from MacOS to Linux, often after a lifetime of involvement with Apple’s products. From Tim Bray’s blog: “[…] as I stood in the Apple store last weekend and drooled over the beautiful, beautiful hardware, all I could think was how much work it would take to twiddle with the default settings, install third-party software, and hide all the commercial tie-ins so I could pretend I was in control of my own computer. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and to my eye Apple isn’t beautiful anymore.”
only geeks could find linux more beautiful than apple. and the number of geeks to regular people is about 100 to 1.
This article is a troll. There is no system where you will not have to put in a relatively large amount of work to feel you ‘control’ it and get it to a state you’re comfortable with. Every point (aside, perhaps, from the commercial tie-ins) applies equally to every vendor.
>>and the number of geeks to regular people is about 100 to 1.
Think about that for a second.
Whether you run a Mac or a PC, your computer blasts commercials at you, from all the companies that have tie-ins with whoever sold you the computer. This is really bad if you buy a PC from HP, but Apple is getting right up there. Perhaps you’re so used to it that you don’t notice any more, but for those of us who run Linux, it’s really jarring when we encounter one of those other systems. It really does feel like it’s Apple’s or HP’s or Dell’s machine, they’re just letting you use it.
Whether you run a Mac or a PC, your computer blasts commercials at you, from all the companies that have tie-ins with whoever sold you the computer. This is really bad if you buy a PC from HP, but Apple is getting right up there.
Apple has quite a ways to go in order to catch up to Dell, HP/Compaq, eMachines, etc, in terms of pointless pre-loaded junk. After setting up a few Dell laptops lately, my personal policy has become to reformat the drive and reinstall with a clean copy of XP (aka: not the restore CD) – it’s less time-consuming than finding and removing all the garbage that big OEMs like to include.
At the very least Apple seems to be a lot choosier/more exclusive about the software they bundle. I have yet to encounter a Mac that came pre-loaded with third-party browser toolbars, 3 or 4 different (and redundant) media players, timebomb demos of stuff like Norton and MS Office, auto-running utilities/control panels written by the OEM (many of which are of questionable use, have horrible interfaces, and duplicate functionality already found in Windows), etc etc etc.
Edited 2006-06-19 19:38
I have yet to encounter a Mac that came pre-loaded with third-party browser toolbars, 3 or 4 different (and redundant) media players, timebomb demos of stuff like Norton and MS Office, auto-running utilities/control panels written by the OEM (many of which are of questionable use, have horrible interfaces, and duplicate functionality already found in Windows), etc etc etc.
Just to point out that many Macs do include a “Test drive” (ie. Time bombed) version of Office 2004…
Which is ridiculously easy to uninstall.
Trial software shouldn’t come installed by default in the first place, there’s enough spam to be seen without OEMs including it on their machines especially since you’re paying them. Besides that, Apple really doesn’t need to subsidise the cost of its computers with advertisements anyway, with their prices they’re not selling at a loss and advertisements, trial software, and visual spam that comes preinstalled just reaks of cheapness.
“you didn’t read it carefully”
You can say that again, the quote given in the blurb isn’t from Tim Bray’s blog, it’s from that Mark guy’s.
It really does feel like it’s Apple’s or HP’s or Dell’s machine, they’re just letting you use it.
Read your EULA, it IS Apple and MS’s property and you are being *allowed* to use it.
You don’t own it, don’t think for a second you do!
This article is a troll. There is no system where you will not have to put in a relatively large amount of work to feel you ‘control’ it and get it to a state you’re comfortable with. Every point (aside, perhaps, from the commercial tie-ins) applies equally to every vendor.
Are we talking about the same article here? The point is not how easy/difficult is to customize your working environment, the point is that with MacOS you are forced to do that if you want to retain control over your own data. You don’t have to do that under an open source OS, or a proprietary OS that follows open standards.
Think about that for a second.
Should take you less than a second to realize that the parent poster got it the other way round …
rehdon
//number of geeks to regular people is about 100 to 1//
yay! I *knew* we were the majority! Time to let those jocks have it!
er … waitaminit …
only geeks could find linux more beautiful than apple. and the number of geeks to regular people is about 100 to 1.
The problem is that Apple now days seam to put beauty before usability.
I never thought I would say this, but I actually long for Gnome when I use MacOS-X. Look at a simple things like rezising windows. In Gnome you can grab any side of a window to resize it, not so in MacOS. The drawer stuff on the Mac pdf viewer doesn’t make things better.
Look at the close/minimize/maximize buttons. They are to similar in shape, and why use red and green? One of the most common color blindness problems.
The mail application is a joke compared to both Evolution and Thunderbird. Sure you can find free mail apps for the mac, so its not a big problem. The question is why didn’t Apple install something better by default.
The MacOS software installation/removal process is awkward to say the least. You have to manually search the internet for apps to install, and once installed there is no way to tell what software dependecys you have in the system. In Fedora installing new software is as easy as checking a checkbox.
Look at the dock, why is it centered? The screen corers are the easiest spots on the screen, so why not align it to the right or to the left by default.
I’m by no means saying that Gnome is perfect, but I certainly prefer it to MacOS-X. Given that my first
experience with personal computers was with MacOS and that I used MacOS happily on my desktop for almost 10 years, I would worry if I was Steve Jobs. People like me shouldn’t feel this way.
Personally, I really prefer mail.app over evolution and thunderbird. The only thing it lack is a news reader (there’s alternative).
I really hate when application like office/outlook, thunderbird or evolution take over the control of my calendar, contact. Leave my contacts alone! I prefer when application interoperate. Like osX where calendar, contact and mail are separate but talk to each other. Not like other application that take it over and break all interaction between apps.
It is also easier to develop application that used a standard that will be clear and centralize for end user. On Windows or Linux, each apps tries to implement its own “module” that already exist somewhere. Let say you have accountancy software, then you have to enter your contacts in that software, but if you have a pocketpc and you also want to have access to this data, you have to duplicate it in outlook. If for some reason you install another-app-X.0 software that needed contacts, you will end up with a repository to maintain. What a way to go! I look contradictory to “technology make our life easier” to me.
On OsX, Application will use the standard contact app, if you install another-app-X.0, guess what, it will automatically have access to your contacts. Later, if you are on the go and you need to call from your supplier-Y, well – guess what, it will be automatically sync to your phone/pda.
Other thing, I someone can bring my a clear, easy (max 15 actions with max two sentences per point/action) (already search google – nothing easy as windows or Os X found), on how to get to work Bluetooth (usb) headset connectivity for communication with apps like skype. I should follow the action step by step, without asking question, it should work flawlessly and on last step I need too be able to make a call. I will be tolerant I take care of dependencies my self (which does not exist on OS X). I take 4 minutes to get it work on OS X. If it work, I will stop complaining about Linux not ready for desktop and I will maybe think to use Linux not only as my server (gentoo 2006.0), but maybe give it another try as desktop.
Why do so many people anthromorphize their computers? “Beautiful” and “sexy” are words that you use to describe *people* or, in a more limited sense, art. I’m sure someone will argue that a Mac is art… I would rather be creating the art than using it, though.
You mean personify? Anthromorphize means to give an animal human characteristics, but personify is to treat a lifeless object as a living thing.
Yeah, I know what you mean, I prefer slang like “sweet”
and “awesome”….computers are not “sexy”, who the hell gets a hard-on looking at a computer?
People have become consumers man….its sad…
computers are not “sexy”
It may say more about you that you interpret ‘sexy’ only in its sexual meaning.
I regurlarly call ‘things’ sexy– most often cars. Never do I, or my friends, then think of sexy as in, sexual.
To Paris Hilton, everything is hot. 🙂
Well, I see what you mean, sometimes it can used that way…
Have you seen that heineken commercial?
It can get a little silly sometimes, thats all
^_^
Hey my computer’s sexy… and her name is Charrrrlene and she doesn’t like it when you stare. pervert. =P 64 bits is to much for you to handle
I think I met Charlene….
She maybe 64bit, but can she fsck?
I agree with the commercial tie-ins, but most of them I find useful. Things like iWeb and GarageBand are easily deleted.
how much work it would take to twiddle with the default settings, install third-party software
^From my experience, I have spent far more time tinkering with the settings and installing software on Linux.
I’m far from any linux guru, though, so of course it’d take me more time.
switching to linux errr switching to Ubuntu…
Well at least it is a switch!
2 users switching from OSX to Linux is news, but hundreds of users switching to from Linux to OSX is not.
Only difference is that one is documented and the other is conjured up.
Only difference is that one is documented and the other is conjured up.
Or that ‘man bites dog’ is simply more interesting than ‘dog bites man’.
Edited 2006-06-19 19:21
Nothing interesting about the switch, or about any switch for that matter. OS X doesn’t meet his needs so he switched to Linux. The only interest this will generate will be a bunch of trolls calling the switchers a “tool” because OS X is the best OS in the whole world and switching is just stupid and of course Linux sucks because it is not a desktop OS and the usual osnews banter. It doesn’t matter that some people’s needs are different from theirs, and God forbid, Linux fits their needs better. Speaking about men biting dogs, I guess I should also post a blog about how I switched from the most popular operating system on the planet to Linux. Now that should garner interest.
Or perhaps the linux desktop user base really is double the size of the mac platform (or quadruple or whatever some ‘analysis’ firms claim)
Or the mac user base really is double that of linux-on-the-desktop.
Or the moon… continue yourself
2 users switching from OSX to Linux is news, but hundreds of users switching to from Linux to OSX is not.
OK. I didn’t know this also, but let me cite John Gruber about who is switching:
Pilgrim is not some Mac OS X-era carpetbagger. He’s a real Mac user, having been using Apple computers for 22 years. In the early ’90s, he developed a slew of cool games, hacks, and utilities for the Mac — and, notably, released them as open source under the GPL; there was very little open source software for the Mac in the System 7 era.
Pilgrim is an expert Mac OS X user; before taking his current job at IBM, he worked as an Apple-certified Mac OS X trainer. When Mac OS X 10.3 (a.k.a. Panther) shipped, he published this wonderfully exhaustive guide to what was new from 10.2. His weblog, Dive Into Mark — which prior to his taking an 18-month hiatus in October 2004 was extraordinarily popular and deservedly so, and was in fact an enormous influence on Daring Fireball — was never a “Mac weblog” or “Apple weblog”, but did contain a lot of insightful, informative stuff about Mac OS X and Apple. And even while his weblog was on hiatus, he was still publishing deeply investigative grist for Mac nerds.
I agree. After nine years of linux use (constant — no windows), I just got tired of constantly “tinkering” with my OS. I bought one of those sexy, shiny new iMAc intel boxes, and I don’t think I’ll be looking back any time soon. I still use Linux at work (couple web servers and a 20 node Suse cluster), and I still wish the Linux folks well. It’s just nice to be able to turn the thing on, and a couple moments later, be able to do whatever I need to without worrying about whether my sound works, or whether my wireless card will stop working whenever it feels like it, or whether an update is going to kill my X server, or …..
Well here is a old 400mhz PII can you JUST install OSX, turn it on and it work?
I dont tweak. I might customize but thats all.
I will agree it is a great feeling to turn the box on and it just work. Doing that for free is a even better feeling.
(dang i am a zealot) I will stay out of any thread posted on osnews that isnt about linux so as to not offend.
…make your own OS from scratch (and no, “linux from scratch” does not count)
🙂
Beyond that you can customize mac, windows, linux, BSD (etc) to your liking
I doubt I could live without OS X, and not based on the bundled applications. The UI of OS X & OS X apps (QuickSilver, for example), and the unix base have given me everything I need from computing.
yay right – there is no alternative to QuickSilver!
Nope, nothing like Gnome Launch Box, which is not available at http://developer.imendio.com/wiki/GNOME_Launch_Box
Forced to retain control of your data?
I don’t understand this statement at all. I have complete control of my data.
I also don’t understand the commercial tie-in nonsense. What commercial tie-ins. Other than Apple’s services I don’t see anything like AOL or any third party offerings littering my desktop.
You’re missing this: http://diveintomark.org/archives/2006/06/16/juggling-oranges
Yes. Great link. The last third of the article (the whole article but especially the last third) makes so clearly the connection between:
locking the hardware and the OS
locking the formats
limiting my use of my own data
DRM.
It’s a really brilliant piece. All the connections is such a small number of words.
This whole issue has nothing whatever to do with whether we like OSX aesthetically, or find it easy or hard to use. Its much more fundamental. The issue is, if you are looking for an alternative, OS X is not an alternative. Open source, despite its disadvantages, really is.
Those articles make some good points! Locking my data into a proprietary format and being closed up outweighs any do-all/just-works/automagic feature for me.
I use linux for lots of reasons and I truly enjoy it but the part I enjoy most is knowing that my data is in a open format, knowing that I can switch at any time and nothing is locked in, nothing is a forced upgrade to a version I need to buy newer hardware for and so forth.
Dont get me wrong I am not a zealot (well maybe a little) but honestly why pay someone that twists your arm to pay more for something you dont want or need but because it makes them a couple extra bucks.
I have seen first hand the horror stories of peoples “stuff” being locked up and ended up being locked out or just gone after something happened. I’ll pass.
Now how do we get people to switch to debian instead of that evil Ubuntu.
“Locking my data into a proprietary format and being closed up outweighs any do-all/just-works/automagic feature for me. “
With regard to proprietary file formats…that’s a function of the apps being used. Not the OS itself. If you want to use open formats on OS X, then do so. I do.
I couldn’t agree more, it’s one of my main reasons for switching a lot of my daily stuff from Windows and Linux over to OsX; same open source apps and open formats but in a better (for me) OS environment.
sorry, didnt mean to go off on a rant especially in regard to a simple statement you made. If I could figure out how to edit my post I would probably delete it. Whew time to climb down off my soapbox and go take a nap or something. Linux isn’t perfect, especially some of the apps could use some re-working. Maybe even the DE could use some improvemnts. Sounds like my car
but just like my car, I have a freedom with it, I am in control, I dont have to worry about the warranty or the payment, I dont have to worry about what changes I make or what changes the next upgrade will make. ok…here I go again – somebody smack me… 
And if newbie-girl installs XP and decides to download/rip music using that easy XP wizard and it works great, automagically even, super cool. She is even smart enough to burn her music to a cd as a backup. Ooops then her computer crashes, she restores it, uh-oh license is corrupted, music gone bye-bye. Yes it was a app, BUT it was a app that came bundled, the super-easy wizard popped up and took care of everything.
Proprietary often goes hand in hand with being “closed up” and I throw it all into the same heap. The heap that I wont use anymore. So with OSX my problem (probably) isn’t so much with the OS itself it is the company controlling it and pulling the strings.
Yes (i guess) it is possible to use OSX just how you describe. But the company you PAID for that hardware/OS, will decide what “updates” to roll out. When it is time to add a extra ad into the music service. When it is going to change something with the next update. Why would you want to use something that only works on a particular something. That drawback would weigh heavy in my mind. Maybe I am nutty…
I always feel ‘clueless’ or maybe ‘helpless’ when I use any closed proprietary operating system. Sure, everything just works and I go about getting anythign done that I want. I just dont know what it is doing in the background. I am not sure where something is kept at. I dont know what happens when I click on this button about automagically updating something-another to play this new format or whatever. Oh, a new update that is more secure, that is great – just when it locks down a bunch of stuff I have installed it isn’t that great. I didn’t save the uninstallation files and now I am stuck with mediaplayer 10.
I would love to have everything automagically work on linux (and we may get there) but I wont accept advertising/forced upgrade/planned obsolescence/calling home/pushed proprietary apps/ for the ‘automagic feature’ or for ‘sexy’ or for ‘just works’.
As I said I am not much of a zealot and I certainly respect your right to pay for whatever you wish, to use whatever you wish. And you are right in the point you made, and the same can be said for windowsOS. But it is only true to a certain degree as is my point only valid to a certain degree.If we are talking strictly OSX then you may be right, but it has baggage and that baggage is the company that controls that product, that makes decisions for you, that has motives which affects its users and whose actions in regards to other products show them IMO to favor lock-in and closed. Any company that sells a product, is doing just that SELLING. Which means they are trying to make a buck in any way THEY think they should, they will tell you anything to get that buck, and will NOT act in your interest no matter what they say.
I am also not a master debater and any future replies you make I will certainly cower in the corner at your ferocity and valid arguments which make me look like a blathering idiot. Heck, I probably am. I guess I would sum it up that the feeling I get when using a open OS is something that I treasure and would never/ever trade it for automagic. And yes that is probably crazy.
The common thread in these articles goes something like this: I don’t know whether they have changed or I have changed, or maybe they were not what I thought they were, but this is not for me any more. Sometimes its the OS, sometimes its the company, sometimes its the enthusiasts. A lot of stories, but the same underlying feeling of discomfort and constraint.
If you are too young to remember it, and want to know what the old Apple was like, or at least, what the old Apple enthusiasts were like, browse the runrev mailing list archive. This is what was lost when Hypercard and the people who used it were lost to lifestyle marketing. Knowledgeable, helpful, even tempered, patient, and with no trace of fanaticism.
Well, I’m about as far away from an Ubuntu fan boy as you can get, but if it leads more poeple to switch then I’ll gladly throw my weight behind it. I’d do this for the betterment of the community as a whole. The more switchers, the more companies will start to focus on improving Linux. Linux isn’t even close to having the polish of OSX on it’s worst day, but it is making breath taking strides. While I can easily make my Linux box prettier than OSX, I can’t say that everything just works like most Apple boxes and becuase of Apple, I now know that that is a realistic expectation.
To be fair, everything just works on Apple boxes because those boxes are special-made for OS X. There is nothing in OS X that makes it inherently “just work” better than Linux. Linux is far easier to get running on a whitebox PC than OS X, which is the comparison to make if you want to make a fair comparison.
A fair comparison is OS X running on a true Mac, and Linux running on a whitebox PC.
OS X *does* “just work” better than Linux now.
A fair comparison is OS X running on a true Mac, and Linux running on a whitebox PC.
OS X *does* “just work” better than Linux now.
Problem is OS X is heavily optimized to run that Apple hardware. Another problem is you didn’t even mention which Linux distro you compare thus making you statement completely flawed.
Now that there are distros that can run on Apple hardware, doesn’t it make sense to compare with OS X?
No one cares about “optimization”. It’s not about performance. It’s about usability.
And you really, really don’t want to compare a PPC Linux distro on a Mac to OS X on a Mac. Trust me on that. It won’t even be a fight. 🙂
I have modded you back up despite your previous comment that was total rubbish, but this one has one truth: while x86 linux is starting to find some vendor collaboration (drivers & software), other linux archs have deeper problems. Despite the availability of the source, often a recompile is not enough (too many x86 assumptions are made, endianness problems and so on).
And while Debian is my main OS on my iBook (and all of my other boxes, an AMD64 and an x86 so I know what I am talking about when I tell you about other archs), I would never recommend it to a newbie because unfortunately it does not “just work”, as many many linux distros do on x86. But a spin on the Ubuntu livecd is free and easy
That’s not a fair comparison though. A whitebox machine is designed to run Windows, not Linux. A “true Mac” is designed to run the OS it runs.
My point is that there is nothing about OS X that makes it “just work” better than Linux. It’s dynamic loading mechanisms aren’t superior, it’s hardware detection isn’t magically better. What makes an OS X machine “just work”, is the installation and support of Apple. A machine tailored to run Ubuntu, professionally installed and supported, and available in as few configurations as Macs are available would “just work” just as well.
The big mistake that people make with regards to Linux support is to mistake organizational issues for technical limitations. What they forget is that they’re not making a fair comparison. They forget that for the Mac, they paid Apple hundreds of dollars to tailor and pre-configure the machine. When you take that advantage away, by installing OS X on a whitebox machine, you see that its really no better.
And yet, if you give a typical user a Mac running OS X, and a custom-tailored machine running Ubuntu, most users would still prefer the Mac.
Three guesses as to why.
>And yet, if you give a typical user a Mac running OS X, and a custom-tailored machine running Ubuntu, most users would still prefer the Mac.
>Three guesses as to why.
1. They prefer to pay for software that they will never own.
2. They prefer to pay for software that has license limits on how it can be used.
3. They prefer to pay for software that locks their data into proprietary formats so that they will have to pay again for software they will never own when they upgrade.
What are your three guesses?
You’re a funny guy. 🙂
The clue train is coming by again: Most users could not care less what licenses their software uses. Everyone I know, with the exception of GNU Freedom Fighters, cares only about their software working well and looking good.
Sorry, but the IT world is not what you make it out to be.
> To be fair, everything just works on Apple boxes because those boxes
> are special-made for OS X.
That brings up one of my favorite questions: Why is nobody interested in building a whole machine, including the hardware, around Linux? You could choose hardware and everything just so it works flawlessly. There is no need to dual-boot. Several low-level configuration issues can be hardcoded since they won’t change (such as partitioning, file system, startup procedure, kernel image, …) A selection of programs as in a distro can be pre-installed. Being a commercial product, there is money available to buy licenses for proprietary applications and encumbered formats. And so on…
After setting up a few Dell laptops lately, my personal policy has become to reformat the drive and reinstall with a clean copy of XP (aka: not the restore CD) – it’s less time-consuming than finding and removing all the garbage that big OEMs like to include.
You were able to put on a clean copy of XP? Everytime I try, I find that the CD key is tied to the recovery CD and won’t work with a regular XP install disk.
You were able to put on a clean copy of XP? Everytime I try, I find that the CD key is tied to the recovery CD and won’t work with a regular XP install disk.
It should work fine. You just need to activate it when you’re done.
I’ll tell you right now, if I wanted to buy a computer to install linux on it would NOT be a mac. You buy a mac to run Mac OS. I wouldn’t spend what I call the “Mac Tax” so I could install linux on it.
Why spend $1500 on a macbook when I could buy a comparable windows laptop for $500 less? I bought my macbook for osx.
Edited 2006-06-19 20:30
Show me a comparable laptop for $500 less.
Well, if ‘it sucks more than the macbook for a cheaper price’ is a comparison, then I could find a lot that ‘compares’…
The first link complains about being locked into a system that restricts his rights and usage, yet he lists a whole series of apps that restrict neither rights, nor usage, and are all linked to from the Apple website. Ok, so Apple don’t ship Camino with the OS, but it (or a link to download it) is easily found on their website. Does Kubuntu come shipped with epiphany? (That is half a genuine question: I don’t know, but it seems unlikely given the K of Kubuntu.)
Don’t get me wrong, I am very disappointed with OS X and its alleged unix underpinnings: installing a latex distro is a pain in the backside, no free native dvi viewing capabilities with the OS annoy me, the way X based programs that are installed like xdvi do not come set up to work when you install them from the OS X discs, heck, the fact that X is not installed by default anymore….
I don’t think that they picked the right complaints to focus on: it is not altering the default behaviour that is the issue for me (using iTerm cos it does tabs and not Terminal.app… ), but the fact that so many things that ought to work painlessly (such as those that are Unix based) just do not work at all. Or howabout how there are no virtual desktops in their `unix based system’? How come they are the only people that can’t do this? (And, no, the free alternative *that works* on my machine is not acceptable: it is just a non-clever way of minimizing and maximizing windows collectively)
Edited 2006-06-19 20:36
I’m very impressed by John Gruber’s essay “And oranges” http://daringfireball.net/2006/06/and_oranges which is a clarification attempt and reflection to the linked article. It’s intelligent and very well written. A joy to read.
Mark Piligrim answered to this with “Juggling Oranges” http://diveintomark.org/archives/2006/06/16/juggling-oranges and gives examples for the stuff, which bothered him with Apple over 20 years. I would say: if even after reading this essays no bells are ringing, you should be sure that you’re using the right OS already.
I’m definitely going to read more stuff on these two weblogs. Intelligent people which take their time for thinking and writing are a very pleasing rarity in internet.
Edited 2006-06-19 20:49
Thanks for the links, very interesting indeed.
rehdon
I’ve been a card-carrying associate member of the Free Software Foundation since 2002.
Reveals that he is an OSS fundie. Also sets the tone for the rest of the blog post.
The Mac is a thread woven through the tapestry of my life.
Wow. That’s pretty fvcked up. It’s just a stupid computer. It’s not your wife, kids or G-d. O_o
But lately their software has been getting weaker (and more restrictive), to the point where I’ve found myself researching alternatives, even on Mac OS X.
Why keep running them on an operating system that costs money and restricts my rights and my usage?
iChat? No thanks, AdiumX talks to everyone, not just your business partners.
Hallucinations (restricts rights, business partners… hahaha)
I’ve had my laugh for today.
How can apple fanboys be so blind. Apple are not only just as bad as microsoft regarding vendor lock-in, they want to monopolise the entire supply chain. If apple had ever reached a critical market share, computers would cost a fortune right now.
> How can apple fanboys be so blind. Apple are not only just as bad as
> microsoft regarding vendor lock-in, they want to monopolise the entire
> supply chain. If apple had ever reached a critical market share,
> computers would cost a fortune right now.
… and you think complaining about it helps? Act, don’t talk. Build a better product. Otherwise customers won’t care.
I’m not complaining, if you actually read my comment you’d realise I just stated that apple has “failed” to achieve its “evil” objective of monopolising the both the computer hardware and software industry.
Edited 2006-06-20 22:10
Apple does not force anyone to use “proprietary” udocumented formats. YOU chose to use Apple mail. There are many email clients to choose from, closed source and open source. Do you not think that I have to tweak the settings of my Gnome desktop from the defaults settings fromm the Fedora people. This article is gibberish, customizing your working environment is the norm across all platforms. One size does not fit all. If running open source apps/OS makes you feel warm and fuzzy inside, then by all means do it, but blaming Apple for limiting your freedom is silly. Wait until you set up your Ubuntu laptop to do all of things you take for granted with your mac. Good Luck to You.
Did you actuallty read the article? It clearly states that he chose the apple email client because at the time it supported the well-known and supported mbox format. Then Apple changed automatically the archive format to its proprietary one without advertising the change, and he noticed the “joke” some months later.
I need to get my work done in order to pay my bills. Linux has done the trick for me for 3 years, but now that I need to run mostly Windows software, I won’t try to get it working under WINE just for the sake of it. I just switched to Windows. If I need Linux again, I’ll just switch back.
An OS isn’t a religion…. free as in freedom, customization? No, thanks, I prefer to get my work done… unless you are willing to pay my bills.
all I could think was how much work it would take to twiddle with the default settings, install third-party software
what the hell does he think he’s going to be doing in linux? spending MORE time twiddling the settings and downloading software probably, except he’ll probably have to compile a good portion of it in addition to that.
i’m sure his reasons are sound to him, i just don’t get that one statement. either way, i hope he enjoys it better.
who the hell gets a hard-on looking at a computer?
Millions across the Globe? Last time I checked, the number one reason why people actually go on the internet is to get a hard-on…
Very smooth, but I think you know what I meant by looking at there computers, I am talking about hardware my man, hardware, not “software” ^_^
When Apple switched to Intel, the first thing going through my mind was it would suffer the same fate as Linux on x86; that is, why would anyone port software, like games, to it, when they can be run in emulation, or through dual booting.
It remains to be seen but I look at my Mac and wonder if it will be the last I own because Apple will have lost its distinctiveness.
For me, beauty is sometimes an important area that i always concern not to forget when building a computer, i always wanted to buy a MacBook but the price was always a 5 meter electric fence, simply too expensive, but if i had the money, i would certainly buy on of those 12 inch Macbook. They simply look amazing
Unfortunatly i would have a problem, i’m a windows user and need it.
About MacOS X, well i always saw compatibily as one of the biggest problems with it, aplications portability was always one of their biggest problems, specialy on games.
But i would still buy a MacBook just for the work in the university
Do you mean the iBook 12″? If so you are right, it didn’t run Windows.
Today Apple sell the MacBook. It’s an Intel based “PC” notebook, so it will run Windows. And the last time I checked, the 1.8GHz model was a true bargain (I even think teachers and students will get a discount).
I know people who got the MacBook to run Windows, and they are very satisfied, especially with OS X
Why the heck would any one get an Apple Computer and run windows on it?
Thats what Dell/HP/IBM Boxes are for….
Oh well, I guess its a sign of the times….
open source software is the future.
Linux reached more than the same things in 10 years, which microsoft need 30 years. The quality of open source software grows and grows. The amount of developers, too.
yeah, because you can’t download open source programs on OSX or Windows.
Sorry, but this was lame and I don’t even own a Mac. If that is the best that the writers can come up with, then we are in trouble here.
If you don’t like the applications that come with the OS, you can download open source programs on the platform that you use and be done with it.
I read the article and I just don’t get it. If you want open source apps, then download them or download the software packs out there. Who cares if it comes with the OS or not, you can download can’t you?
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Whether you run a Mac or a PC, your computer blasts commercials at you, from all the companies that have tie-ins with whoever sold you the computer. This is really bad if you buy a PC from HP, but Apple is getting right up there. Perhaps you’re so used to it that you don’t notice any more, but for those of us who run Linux, it’s really jarring when we encounter one of those other systems. It really does feel like it’s Apple’s or HP’s or Dell’s machine, they’re just letting you use it.
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If apple or dell didn’t do this, you would complain that OEMS do not have the flexiblity or right to innovate software on OSX or Windows and they should use Linux so they can innovate and push the industry forward instead.
The main point is pushing Linux in anyway possible. It has nothing do do with anything else but pushing Linux.
I see this all of the time. When someone says that their Windows machine is slow booting up, you would say move to Linux. If people say that they want free software to solve their problems, you would say move to Linux. When someone has a problem with anything on windows or OSX the answer is always Linux.
Push, push, push Linux because Linux can’t push itself so you guys have to help it.
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God forbid, Linux fits their needs better. Speaking about men biting dogs, I guess I should also post a blog about how I switched from the most popular operating system on the planet to Linux. Now that should garner interest.
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I don’t care that they switched. It does not bother me one bit. What bothers me are the reasons that they put together. They were lame attempts at trying to find something to switch over to.
If they want to hurt themselves by switching over from OSX or Windows, let them. However, the reasons were terrible, their propaganda is terrible, the article was biased as heck.
I see a lot of people that have linux on their machines as a bunch of propaganda artists and jerks for the most part and trying to convert people over at all costs. It is almost like they get paid to do it. This is why I question it. If Linux is so good, you would not have to evangelise it and put out tons of propaganda and FUD, the Operating System would sell itself. If linux was so good, you would see mass defections and that isn’t happening.
You do see some as some liberal european countries are switching away from American companies, but they are meaningless liberal and anti-American anyway.
Mark Pilgrim has used Macintosh for 22 years. He has written countless software for the platform. He is not your shallow typical Mac zealot trying to be cool. He is a real Macintosh user inside out. How long have you used your Mac? How many programs have you written for it? How about books? Calling their grievances propaganda and FUD only exposes your ignorance and diseased fanaticism. These are REAL and authentic Macintosh users that have earned a name and reputation for themselves long before the iPod hype overtook the wannabe mindless zealots. Wake me up when you have as much caliber to deserve to call any of them “jerks”.
I see a lot of people that have linux on their machines as a bunch of propaganda artists and jerks for the most part and trying to convert people over at all costs. It is almost like they get paid to do it. This is why I question it. If Linux is so good, you would not have to evangelise it and put out tons of propaganda and FUD, the Operating System would sell itself. If linux was so good, you would see mass defections and that isn’t happening.
The thing is… you’ll never hear about Linux users who don’t push it on other people. Not all Linux users are vocal about it and want other people to switch at all costs. I’m more of the opinion that you get your choice to use the OS you like, but also respect my choice for the OS I like. I think a lot of linux users think the same as me. Besides, I believe that there are very vocal people trying to convert other people on each OS.
I believe Linux is excellent.. for the things I do. That doesn’t mean it’s excellent for the things you do. I do think Linux sold itself as a server’s os and (maybe in a lesser degree) as a developer’s os.
I think it would be better for Linux to market it as a complement to Windows and OS X. If you force people to choose, many will take Windows.
This happened at a company I worked for. The management found out that we had Linux servers, and decided that we needed a uniform/standardized OS strategy. The management saw it as a war, and wanted to be on the winning team. So the Linux servers disappeared, and the DB software is up for a switch next.
I often compare computers and OSes to cars and trucks.
You can’t have one that does everything just as good as the other.
I have always used a multitude of OSes, I now use:
Linux server -Easiest and best for a stable all-around server.
XP -great for 3D games, and Borland B for work.
OS X -Everything else, like iMovie, photo editing and word processing.
“””I stood in the Apple store last weekend and drooled over the beautiful, beautiful hardware, all I could think was how much work it would take to twiddle with the default settings, install third-party software, and hide all the commercial tie-ins so I could pretend I was in control of my own computer. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and to my eye Apple isn’t beautiful anymore.””””
oh my god! what drama!
my question is, “if Apple is such a horrible company… and there products are SO bad!…. why do people spend SO MUCH time talking about it????” its almost like “bashing Apple”is the IT Worlds favorite hobby!
dont you guys have anythings else to do? go compile a custom Linux Kernel… or fix your office staffs random windows issues….. AND for CRYING OUT LOUD….. stay out of the apple store!
I like Macs. I’ve used them since 1988. I bought one of the early G-3 boxes, and I’m on my third iBook. My wife has an eMac. I love the fact that wireless networking on my iBook is such a no-brainer, and that sleep/hibernate is so seamless on it. I like the way the programs are integrated so well.
But I also agree with the author. For several years now there’s been this “insecure” feeling that I don’t really own my computer or my software, seeing one restrictive EULA after another,and learning that there are better programs available than the ones that are so well integrated on the Mac — more integrated but less capable.
I wish Apple no harm, and I have no criticism of other Mac users, but I’m in the process of switching completely to Linux. KDE and Gnome have both progressed very rapidly, and in many ways they are the equal of the Mac desktop. Thre are still some minor annoyances, but overall, I DO feel freer using Linux — formerly SuSe, now Kubuntu. I have a much larger set of choices now in my work, and while not everything is a “no-brainer”, I also feel like I’m able to do more than I could before, both in programming and administering my computer and in creating content. I have a homebuilt AMD-64 desktop, and I dual boot Kubuntu Dapper Drake on my iBook. I rarely use OS X any more, although I must admit its wireless capabilities are without equal. My next laptop will not be a Mac — by then I feel confident that Linux will have equaled Apple’s Airport abilities, and there will be no reason left to use Apple software. Now that I’m used to the KDE way, I really don’t miss the OS X way at all.
“My next laptop will not be a Mac”
I’m holding out for the LinuxBook™ too. I’ve heard it will be ugly as hell, but it will come with a tinfoil hat.
BTW, I have a “secure” feeling I don’t own my software.
Safari? No thanks, I choose Firefox (and later Camino).
iChat? No thanks, AdiumX talks to everyone, not just your business partners.
QuickTime? No thanks, VLC plays everything, and in full-screen.
Terminal? No thanks, iTerm has tabs.
Ehm, Final Cut Pro?