A new report out by market research firm Forrester suggests that Apple could double its market share through defections from the Windows platform alone. The firm said that much of this has to do with customers’ deep distrust of Microsoft. Apple, along with TiVo, was the only company whose brand trust increased in the last two years. Consumers trust technology brands like Bose, Dell, Sony, Panasonic, and Hewlett-Packard the most, while Toshiba, Hitachi, Gateway, and LG joined Microsoft at the bottom.
I have already switched. And being able to run my legacy software on a Mac using boot camp is a great bonus. Anyway, the article says consumers trust… Sony?? After the rootkit scandal they still trust Sony?? Geez…
Most Sony customers don’t know what a rootkit is. Folks here need to keep in mind that (not trying to inflate your ego now…) you are not a typical customer.
Not only do they not know what it is, but they probably have never heard of it.
I have really nothing against Apple or smth, but don’t you think, guys, that we receive too much of “news” about that company: 1-2 articles per day, or I’m the only one thinking this way?
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Cheers
No, you are not the only one thinking this way. A lot of people are about equally baffled and appalled by the Apple hysteria.
People posting in these forums tend to confuse two things. The first is what I like to use and what I want to buy. For many posters, this is Apple, and you can’t argue with that, you like it or you don’t.
The second is, what would be good for our industry if the choice became the general rule, and the company whose products I like came to dominate. Vague memories of Kant may be stirring at this point.
Apple makes an OS which some have preferred for many years under different incarnations. However, at the same time it has held rigidly to a business model which, if it came to dominate our industry, would be a disaster for consumers, both personal and business, and for freedom of information and freedom of access to technology. This is the model where I can only run an OS on hardware stamped with the brand of one particular company. Enforced by hardware or software dongles, and in the future probably by some form of DRM.
We need to see clearly that while Microsoft has dreadful defects as an OS supplier, and has behaved appallingly in terms of anti competitive tactics, nevertheless, you can run Windows on whatever machine you like. So you can buy from one of a huge number of suppliers. So there is price competition, there is high innovation in hardware, product improvement, and there is competition on service, brand, quality, and all the ‘soft’ elements of the product mix.
With the Apple model, once you have made your OSX choice, all that competition and choice has gone.
If the Apple model were to come to dominate our industry, we would have islands of use. A company would ‘go to Apple’ and run OSX on Apple hardware. It could not run it on any other hardware. It might be a bit like the days of IBM and the Bunch.
It would be Very Bad. Bad for America, bad for the West, bad for us as consumers and workers in the industry. Bad for us as citizens, because our access to computing power would be sharply more limited than today. Corporate power would have increased at the expense of the individual.
Apple at current market share in computing is about right. Think about this when you think how much you like OSX. Yes, you like it. But there is the public good to consider as well. The business model does not need any more endorsement than the minimal endorsement it already has.
What’s good for Apple is not good for the rest of us.
” you can run Windows on whatever machine you like. ”
Please explain how I can run Windows on my Sinclair ZX80?
You can stack a Dell on top of it
I think he meant that with Windows, you’re not locked into specific hardware like you are with Apple.
You forget the power of brand marketing and advertising. That’s what’s causing the “hysteria.” Apple’s marketing campaign has been extremely successful as promoting itself as the “cool” computer. But in the short term, corporate competition between Apple and Micrsoft would hopefully spur some real engineering development, something Vista completely lacks. Sometimes I feel Linux and other OSS do not have the concentration of capital to move beyond a fringe of computer users.
>>>>>””<<<<
um…. dude… what are you smoking?!?!?! talk about an extreem look at the situation! lets rephrase that a bit and see what we have
With the Windows model, once you have made your Windows choice, all that competition and choice has gone
thats about what you have here!
what OSX and Linux does is OPEN it all up! you have MORE choice! i doubt you will EVER see the day when Apple… or any one else dominates like MS does right now! i think we are leaning from that mistake! i see your point… and yea… if you had no choice… then obviously… you would have no choice! but that is never going to happen! APPLE will never have 95% of the computer market! once more people start waking up to what it is like to live in world driven by tech…. you will see more players in the games… less monoplys… less dominate players!
apple will probally hit the 25% marketshare for the home computer… maybe more…. but windows will still have a large chuck… and hopfully linux too!
world is changing fast!!!!! and the PC landscape is changeing! it is mattering less and les what computer you use on a daily basis… because, the SERVICES you use, like email and google and IM and THE WEB is platfrom aggnostic!!!!!! thats is the future!
dont go over board with this “if apple was the domminate PC maker the world would end BS” get out there and use a variety of companies products…. force the market to stay open… and IT WILL….
All of this web app stuff is great until your Internet access is down or the website is down.
Thanks, but I like apps that I can install and use them even when the website is down or the internet is down and I can still use my apps and my computer.
What hardware and software dongles?
“What hardware and software dongles?”
The Mac ROMs were hardware dongles, and later became software dongles. Currently DRM of some sort is being used to prevent you moving OSX to non Apple machines. My point was, the use of ROM to protect the older machines and the use of code to protect the new machines are very similar, and similar to dongles, though the DRM aspect of the new machines goes much further. These things have been part of Apple culture from the start.
In the end this is about telling people what to do. It is telling them what hardware they may run your OS on. It also moves very readily into telling them what software they may use, what media they may access. It always has been telling them what kind of UI is best for them. It is a kind of corporate fascism in its attitude to customers. It the enemy of computing freedom. People think Apple is cool and freee and a liberating alternative. Its not. Its business model is the enemy of technological and computing freedom.
You see where they would like to take this if you look at iTunes, where they have realised the full locked in monopoly vision, right down to information collection.
I am not suggesting Microsoft is any better. Just that its ambitions are more limited (to software), and that it has been more successful in realising them.
If consumers “trust” Dell, does it matter if they trust Miscrosoft? If they trust Dell enough to buy their machines, they’re going to get Windows whether they trust MS or not.
I just bought 100 Dell machines… But none of them have (or have ever had) Windows on them. I have a Dell laptop as well, but the Windows XP installed on it was erased before it had ever had a chance to be booted into.
No, Dell makes (some) decent hardware. I can’t blame them for the quality of the software some people choose to run on them. That’s like blaming GM for drunk drivers.
Consumers trust technology brands like Bose, Dell, Sony, Panasonic, and Hewlett-Packard the most
Sony? I guess no-one in the real world heard about that rootkit nonsense then…
The keyword here is could. But will it? Many factors come into play about this. Are consumers going to willing to pay a higher up-front cost for a Mac if they do this switch?
The report estimates that some 5.4 million households would say they distrust Microsoft either a lot or somewhat.
How many respondents say they distrust Apple either a lot or somewhat? Did you count that in? There are 2 sides to this game.
If Apple gave these users a reason to switch and leave Microsoft behind, the company could double its market share, the firm speculated.
Yes, thats called Business 101.
Too much speculation and unanswered questions in this article.
The keyword here is could. But will it? Many factors come into play about this. Are consumers going to willing to pay a higher up-front cost for a Mac if they do this switch?
uh, but Macs aren’t more expensive.
From eWeek:
The D620 that we tested, which lists for $1961, features the more performance-orientated 1.83Ghz Core Duo T2400 processor, 1gig of RAM, and an 80gig hard drive
$2099 for the Apple Macbook, but has a larger screen (15.4″ vs. 14.1″).
Granted, this is but one example, but with all the software included with OSX and the lack (at least for now) of spyware, virii, etc I think Apples are a better value.
Added to the fact that early developer testers are stating 10.5 is a good 20% faster than 10.4, and Vista is arguably going to be less efficient, I can’t possibly see why I shouldn’t switch after my current laptop kicks the bucket.
but most people don’t drop 2 grand on a computer.
More like “disgust”, amiright ? 🙂
A lot of people are ready to try something new. Talk to people who are still having problems with spyware even after plunking down their cold hard cash for every anti-virus they could find, they get a sort of dull look in their eyes when talking about Windows like a beaten dog.
Over a half dozen people I know have switched over because of the incessant nagging, niggling, hassles both large and small that they have to go through and still have problems with Windows.
When I showed my new MacBookPro running Windows XPPro with SolidWorks 3D CAD running just as fast (on one Core in the MBPro) as my Dell M60, he just looked stunned. After dinner he asked only one question.
How much? I said you can buy either the MacBookPro all up or the Dell M90 all up, and the price will be the same. Indeed the M90 isn’t out yet, but uses the same CPU, so I am guessing speeds will be comparable.
Yeah there are some bugs and key remapping and the final public release will take care of most items, but I now carry 20 pound less around when I’m on the go. Whew!
What really would do it for Apple is if they introduce paravirtualization in the next issue of Mac OS X.
This would allow people to move most of their PC software right over to Mac OS X.
Microsoft is also putting Virtualisation directly into the Vista OS.
!!!
Well, IMHO Distrust for Windows Could Help anyone just a little bit more decent than Ms!
!!!
Distrust for MS will definately help apple, but it’ll help linux more. Most people wouldn’t necessarily want to buy a new machine, they could just install something(or have someone do the install) on their existing hardware.
Ha, ha, ha!
Give it up! People are going to say; I hate MS, I’m going to use Linux, uh, which version is which. can I still use my iPod? No? Forget it!
And those are the ones who have heard of it. Believe it or not, most have no idea what it is.
With VMWare porting to Apple OS X and hypervisors comming to the hardware, there is no longer a reason to not try to use OS X as your primary OS, except maybe Apples have shitty hardware specs compared to my laptop
No really. Unless you’re talking about the (now) old Powerbook. The MacBook Pro has specs that are just fine.
I for one would like to develop for OS X.
.. games are readily available on OS X until then Windows WILL be dominant. Thats what it would take to switch to Apple tomorrow for the majority of home users.
It is about time people realise there are much better OSs on offer.
I wish people embrace Mac OS X, the BSDs and Linux according to their individual needs. It’s not about being anti-MS and lame blind flame wars, it’s about meritocracy.
And while virtualization is all the rage and will indeed be an awesome solution, the new macs right now can boot Mac OS X (yeah!), FreeBSD, Solaris, Linux and Windows.
I would love to run OS X as my primary but the lack of games and software is the major hurdle I face. I would love to develop for OS X rather than windows its more satisfying and a pleasure to use but all my skills are in Visual Studio and that is a great environment and toolset. Simple, no games == no switchers. VMware would help, I would love to run OS X on powerful hardware as powerful as my current laptop and more but the current Apples lack serious power.
no games == no switchers
Not everybody considers playing the latest murder simulator the be all end all of computing.
Excuse my ignorance but is there any C# runtimes for OS X or any managed runtimes that are widely deployed?
You can run Mono under OS/X without a problem.
And .Net bindings for OS X UI controls and other functionality?
Once we get alot more opensource focus on OS X the poor Apple UI will turn to X
Which would be bad for the entire “experience” but it would force developers to think of usability at long last 
i don’t really trust a compony who control hardware + software….
i prefer to use win or linux….. have more choice for hardware and software…..
also there are more job when you know win or linux…
Fine do you work on win and lin but for personal use I would love to switch to OS X, its a far better experience and less headaches when I can get other people (non computer geeks) over to OS X.
“i don’t really trust a company who control hardware + software….
i prefer to use win or linux….. have more choice for hardware and software…..
also there are more job when you know win or linux…”
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Well, I understand yourt point, but is not a 100% hardware and software controm by Apple..
For instance you can boor many Linux and BSD OS Distributions in the Apple PowerPC machines… So, You can boot MacOS X, or Mac Classic, and Linux and BSD. So you are not restricted to one OS from apple. that make a pretty bunch of OSs to boot in a Mac PC.
For the new intel Macs you could boot also Windoza, if you really need it or want too ( I don not see the need of it, anyway).
On the other hand if you are a bit harware hacker, you can also modify your Mac hardware, like you can modify a Dell, or a HP PC. It is not so difficult.
.
A 20in iMac for myself, and a solo Mini for the wife. She absolutely loves the mini and thinks it’s much easier than Win. I can’t get over how much OSX “does” and includes. I have a huge deployment for a new client this weekend, and needed to make an outline. I was digging around the “Applications” folder and found the “OmniEdit” which was/is PERFECT for my needs.
Windows keeps $$ coming in for me, cause it constantly needs support. I hope my clients don’t go the Mac route; I’ll be out of business.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m a mac user, but if this were the case then microsoft would have a much lower market share then they currently have.
Since Microsoft, “owns” the vast majority of mindshare and 3rd party support, does it really matter if you “trust” them or not? You don’t really have a choice.
If an app runs *only* on Windows and you need/want that app, are you going to use Linux? MacOS X? BeOS? Haiku? Zeta? No. You’re gonna run Windows. EVERYONE programs for Windows and makes money. A select few, write for Windows *and* MacOS X and make money. A tiny margin write for MacOS X exclusively and make money. And, the rest… just tinker in the OpenSource community and maybe make money.
As was once said, “This car comes in any color you like, as long as the color is black.” This is a truism for Microsoft and people that use Windows. Face it. Unless Microsoft suddenly vanishes off the face of the earth, Windows is here to stay, like it or not.
I, for one, refuse to use Windows (of any flavor) anymore. It’s simply too risky. Spyware, viruses, trojans, etc. ad nauseum! I will use it when I have no choice, but only as long as absolutely necessary. That is few and far between, thankfully. My G4 DA and MacOS X accomplish what I need and want to do the other 99% of the time. 🙂
“If an app runs *only* on Windows and you need/want that app, are you going to use Linux? MacOS X? BeOS? Haiku? Zeta? No. You’re gonna run Windows.”
Yes…and I did exactly that.
It was easy enough to find applications that did the same things as apps that were available on Windows only.
Its not about what apps are out there…it is about the ability to manipulate data. I was able to gain access to ALL of my files that were on my Windows box and use them on my PowerBook using different apps then the ones that originally created those files.
While it’s possible to do that, the comman man won’t go to that effort and will simply run Windows instead. I hear that GIMP is every bit as good as PhotoShop. But a friend tells me the interfact stinks, and therefore people won’t generally use GIMP because it’s harder to use than PhotoShop… or somesuch.
This research seemed to be plausable until they listed Sony as a company that had the publics trust. Can anyone say Betamax or Rootkit? Is the public just uninformed or is the reasearch tainted?
Sony tries to capture and monopolise every technology they enter into. I trust Sony like CNN, I wouldn’t believe CNN if they said it was daytime unless I went to the window and looked out!
penguin7009
Sony does have the public’s trust, just not the tech community who is aware of their DRM and backdoors etc.
Is the public just uninformed or is the reasearch tainted?
I think the former is a pretty safe bet.
“Is the public just uninformed”
very simply, yes. Most people have no clue about things like the Rootkit issue. Basically people think “oh Sony makes nice stereos…they probably make good computers too.” That or you will find people wandering computer stores looking at computers and basing part of their decision on the appearance of the case. I have actually heard a lot of people in stores look at a computer and say, “that one looks cooler” then buy it when one with better specs for about the same price is sitting next to it…the big difference was the case wasn’t as “cool” looking.
Keep in mind, those of us who participate in the discussions on this web site do not fit the norm…most people have no clue how computers work. Just yesterday I was talking to my office mate. She didn’t understand what a “hard drive activity light” was. I have known a number of people in the heart of Silicon Valley who didn’t understand the difference between Windows and Office. With things like that, do you really think people are going to know or care about a rootkit? No! Sony is a popular brand name that has style. The masses are going to go for that…they really do not know.
This is partly a question of perspective. The Windows market is so huge that for Apple gaining a 1 per cent extra share of the whole PC market translates into something like a 50 per cent rise in Apple’s PC revenues. So Apple can keep strict limits on what they make available (in terms of their production runs), price things up, still do fabulously well and tell the world they are conquering Windows whereas in reality only a tiny dent has been made in the Microsoft monopoly.
Just my 2 cents, but I’d guess that most folks think Windows isn’t much and Microsoft are pretty unpleasant. But it is “good enough” so they put up with it, and they are just not interested enough in computers to start investigating the alternatives, like Apple, Linux, etc. Inertia is Microsoft’s greatest ally.
Why people trust bose speakers is beyond me. If people trust Bose speakers, then I guess we all know where the majority of the peoples education stand.
You have to “terminate” your current session and then “start” a new Windows Session and so on. VMWare or some Hypervisor is needed for them to run at the same time and share data if possible (clipboard, folder shares, web services, TCP/IP etc)
I dont trust Apple, Bose, Dell, Sony, Panasonic, and Hewlett-Packard anymore than I trust Microsoft, Toshiba, Hitachi, Gateway, LG, or any other large corporation.
>>>>”Excuse my ignorance but is there any C# runtimes for OS X or any managed runtimes that are widely deployed?”<<<<
umm…. check out MONO!!!!
>>>>”I would love to run OS X as my primary but the lack of games and software is the major hurdle I face”<<<<<
gamers suck!
>>>>” would love to run OS X on powerful hardware as powerful as my current laptop and more but the current Apples lack serious power.”<<<<
GAMERS SUCK!
>>>>>”.. games are readily available on OS X until then Windows WILL be dominant. Thats what it would take to switch to Apple tomorrow for the majority of home users”<<<<<
oh…did i mention…Gamers Suck!
you know.. is funny to hear people say ‘ oh… i am a power user, so apple doent not make a PC powerfull enough for me” and then you find out that they are actually not a “POWERUSER” but just a gamer! what a joke! it still blows my mind that people will spend so much on a computer just to play games! GET A LIFE! and take a shower… and pay attention to your girl friend… or you kids for a change! dorx!
^^^^ Nice!
And I suppose that you, not being a gamer, didn’t spend $1000+ on a TV, stereo, etc.
Really games are just annother form of entertainment. It’s like saying “I’m not going to buy that TV because it won’t display video from a DVD”. That’s about the size of it. There are basicly no games for Macs. And for those of us who perfer a little more involved form of entertainment besides vegging out in a theatre or infront of the tube, not being able to run the latest and greatest game is a bit deal. So…lay off.
That being said, I’m going to have to look into what I can upgrade my system for. Macs are looking more and more attractive as the days go by….
hey… dont get me wrong… spend your money where ever you want! hell i am a free market capitolist… and being a gamer, you are contributing to the economy, which is fine with me.
i understand gaming is a form of entertainment… and we all want to be entertained… to each his own… but you know, i have known lots of gamers in my day. some of them are close friends of mine. but from MY observation. they are MUCH MUCH closer to the vegetative state while in the throws of a weekend Long EverQuest or WOW binge than your average Survivor watcher!
and don’t give me that Cr*p about how gamers use a larger portion of their brains than none gamers… or that gaming makes you smarter…
thats like saying masturbation makes your penis bigger!
Any one that spends 5K or more (hell… a few hundred $$$ or more) on a PC specifically for gaming, AND spend more then 2 hours a week playing Video Games has got there priorities seriously out of wack!!!!
but hey… this is a free society and i would never take that freedom away from you! but you still suck!
and this goes out to all my old friends back in NoVa that have been “vegging” out in front of UO, then EverQuest, then WOW…. or what ever else you are in to now!
hey… remember this guys ” dude!!!come over this week end we are having a party, lots of people are going to be there!” ……I arrive with a few other friends and a few sixers of some fine portland brewed micros. and there are 30 people at this “Party”…. and that ALL have there faces barried in there monitors…. totally entrenched to the point that most dont even say hi…. they just keep playing…..
some party! guess i am not hip!
so… i moved…. left them ALL behind with their hi paying IT jobs and their “everquest guilds”
Didn’t it hurt to give up the Pizza job and move?
Seriously, you need to read everything you wrote in here and get yourself some therapy. While I have to agree that too many people get wrapped up in video games and ignore life, the above is just neurotic.
Seriously.
Nah he got pwned the last time he played Photoshop and only got to level 3 and never found the Scroll of RedEye reduction.
are we going to hear of Apple doubling their marketshare? When? In the past 5 years there have been about 20 different things that were supposed to double Apple’s market share. Once again, when’s it going to happen? Has it even doubled once since their low point?
If you read to the end of the article, you’ll find that all of these people with postive views of Apple are poor. An apt analogy: I have a positive view of BMW, but there is little chance that I will upgrade my Toyota to a BMW.
For the average person or family, going to Fry’s with their $600 or $800 tax refund, are they going to buy a Mac Mini? No, they are going to buy last year’s HP Media Center. You can argue about value, but it is percieved value that matters.
The surprising part of the article is that few people know the iPod is an Apple product!
And .Net bindings for OS X UI controls and other functionality?
No. However, Microsoft has discussed porting some of .NET to OS X. They might have some information.
Windows XP before Service Pack 2 did have some issues that is true.
From what I have seen so far, Microsoft’s Operating Systems are becoming better and with much higher quality than before.
I look at Windows Vista and it just screams quality and it will be a lot more secure and a lot more stable than Windows XP.
In my next machine I am looking towards Vista Ultimate in 64-bit mode. I don’t have to run any windows 16-bit apps so 32-bit and 64-bit will work just fine for me.
I just feel in my opinion that Microsoft is getting it right by all the changes for security and stability.
Putting drivers in user-mode instead of kernel mode is going to be a great improvement for everyone and protecting the 64-bit kernel so no rootkits are allowed is a great thing.
Programmers who write drivers will love their job now.
It should be easier for them. With the WVDM and Direct 3D 10, it should be a blast with no legacy.
Bust this guy for sarcasm:
>>Programmers who write drivers will love their job >>now.
>>It should be easier for them. With the WVDM and >>Direct 3D 10, it should be a blast with no legacy.
I made a hardware device which plugged into a parallel port and under Win98, it did I/O to the ports. XP came along and they took that away. I bought the driver development kit and discovered if your device is not like a printer, you’re screwed. Fortunately, someone found a way to release ports to applications under XP
I don’t work there anymore–somebody else’s problem, now. It kinda inspired me to write an OS with no security thinking there’s probably a nitch for people in scientific labs or whatever who just want free access to their machines.
Sarcasm? Nope. This guy is dead serious.
Yes, viruses, adware and other malicious programs will most certainly be a thing of the past with the arrival of Windows® Vista™
People distrust LG? Anybody know why? I’ve always been extremely happy with all of the LG products I own.
But I don’t trust Apple either. In fact, I would trust ANY company of that size about as much as I would trust a kleptomaniac being in my house when I wasn’t there.
News flash: Microsoft doesn’t give two shits about you, and neither does Apple. Nor do Sony, Dell, Toshiba, Novell, Red Hat, and the whole lot of them. I’m not saying they’re evil (there is no such thing as an ‘evil’ entity), but the only time a for-profit company of marginal size has your best interest in mind is when it serves their best interest as well. Otherwise, you’re nothing but a number to them. As soon as you start thinking that a particular company are the ‘good guys’, that’s when you’re gonna get screwed! I’m not saying you should NEVER trust them, but you always have to look at what’s in it for them. If the answer to that question is ‘a lot’, then you’re probably ok.