“It was not the best of quarters for Linux vendor Novell. When Novell announced its financial results for its first fiscal quarter, which ended Jan. 31, 2006, it reported revenue of $274 million [EUR 227 million], compared to revenue of $290 million [EUR 241 million] for the first fiscal quarter 2005. This was a decline from the previous quarter in which Novell had reported $320 million [EUR 266 million] of revenue.”
It’s not really a surprise, I’m afraid. Novell are caught between a rock and a hard place and it is gradually grinding them away. If you take out everything that isn’t Linux or open source, Novell could be a nice, tight company, smaller than Red Hat to be sure but showing good growth particularly in identity management. But if you add back in the old Novell and the Netware behemoth as reported here it is a sprawling beast with hopelessly crippling overheads and declining overall sales.
All one can see here is an eventual break up and a nasty shareholder fight over that $1.7 billion of cash and liquid assets. Here’s to hoping SuSE emerges reasonably unscathed. In the meantime, the chairman’s tenure is up, I would guess. He’s at the end of the period he said he needed to turn the company round. Flogging off SuSE to Novell is looking more and more like typical greedy short-termism from the investment crowd.
Personally, I see the sharp drop in Novell stock that resulted after the posting their financial statements as a blessing. This only means that the stock is cheaper and therefore time to buy.
Many of the enhancements that Novell Linux Desktop and SUSE Linux Enterprise will introduce in the months to come will have Novell’s Linux OS and their great products like iFolder and Mono running on many new computers. As 2006 come to a close the Novell stock will be up well over $2 from its actual $7.90 closing price of Friday.
So how many shares are you buying Monday?
Just bought 500 more common shares
Many of the enhancements that Novell Linux Desktop and SUSE Linux Enterprise will introduce in the months to come will have Novell’s Linux OS and their great products like iFolder and Mono running on many new computers.
Not necessarily true I’m afraid. I expect distros like RedHat and Ubuntu to be every bit as good and the mono thing could easily backfire especially as .Net on windows is only really making waves in the web (asp.net) departments and not so much on the desktop where “pure” .Net apps are more likely to be resource hogs.
If I were Novell, I would flog off Suse and sell it to the highest bidder – they gain very little from having to spread their resources so thin. If Gnome is going to be their preferred desktop then why support both?
I would also be a bit more cautious with mono – Can they make it a lot better than MS version?
Can they eliminate the bloat, improve memory consumption and create a killer developer tool that uses gcc to create stand alone and less bloated apps much like gcc does for Java? (Jit’s sux for desktop use)
Can they also get C Python to work on it flawlessly and so make it a truly world class development platform for Linux?
As someone who is programming in C# and Asp.net on Windows, I would like to use C# in linux too but the above needs to be addressed otherwise mono becomes a luxury for only those with beefy machines and loads of RAM.
http://www.marketwatch.com/tools/quotes/intchart.asp?symb=NOVL&site…
Catching falling knives…. No rush, let it bounce on the kitchen floor first.
Good point
. I should have been more specific and recommend prudence and research. However, I stand by my opinion. Novell is a great company and its future is bright.
Novell is a great company and its future is bright.
Based on what?
Many of the enhancements that Novell Linux Desktop and SUSE Linux Enterprise will introduce in the months to come will have Novell’s Linux OS and their great products like iFolder and Mono running on many new computers.
Talking about new enhancements and products that have been around for quite a long time, like Mono and iFolder, isn’t going to make the situation any better.
People seem to equate popularity of products, particularly in the open source community, as something that will boost Novell’s revenue. It’s a bad mistake.
As 2006 come to a close the Novell stock will be up…
Wow. That’s a major prediction based on thin air.
They should reduce the number of distros they have. Currently they have five: SUSE Linux Enterprise Server, Novell Open Enterprise Server, Novell Linux Desktop, SUSE Linux and OpenSUSE. All they need is three: Open, Desktop and Enterprise.
Then they need to get HP and/or Dell to offer these preinstalled. That would make a significant difference.
Well, I think the greater thing is this; they have a good desktop coming up, but what will kill it is the lack of a decent ISV network; what Linux needs are the Adobes, Corels, Peachtree’s and Ahead (Nero) of the world to start creating software for the platform.
Until that day happens, all these great new Linux desktops will be, just that, great operating systems with no commercial software running on them.
Sure, there are good server packages, but that’s not what I’m talking about, I am talking about the desktop software that companies rely on each day, the accounting package, the label maker that the secretary uses etc. etc.
Nero Linux has been out for a while:
http://www.nero.com/en/NeroLINUX.html
Well, I think the greater thing is this; they have a good desktop coming up…
Until that day happens, all these great new Linux desktops…
I don’t know what you’re talking about the Linux desktop for. That’s the absolute least of Novell’s worries, and it isn’t their core business.
Edited 2006-03-05 18:36
I don’t know what you’re talking about the Linux desktop for. That’s the absolute least of Novell’s worries, and it isn’t their core business.
Unless you’ve been living under a rock, Microsoft is heavily linking the server and desktop together with the Office Server and Client versions – when this catches on, Novell and RedHat better have something as an alternative to the product line up Microsoft is offering.
Novell has already been caught once with its pants down, do they want another episode of that?
Novell NEEDS a viable server AND desktop NOW, with a all the trimmings that Microsoft offers; until that day happens, people will continuue to roll over for Microsoft, although reluctantly.
Opensuse is not a distro, it’s just ‘suse linux’.
for those that don’t believe me then check out the description on the front page:
http://en.opensuse.org/Welcome_to_openSUSE.org
Re: “They should reduce the number of distros they have. Currently they have five: SUSE Linux Enterprise Server, Novell Open Enterprise Server, Novell Linux Desktop, SUSE Linux and OpenSUSE. All they need is three: Open, Desktop and Enterprise.
Have you compared this with the other major players Red Hat and Microsoft? The latter of which will provide several versions of Vista to meet global market requirements. While SLES and NOES target differant customers I believe we’ll see a focus on one server implementation in the near future instead of two being offered. As for NLD this targets the enterprise market, not private markets which SUSE Linux 10 is targeting. Though it would be better for Novell to focus on one desktop instead of two. Since both NLD and SUSE Linux 10 can be tailored during installation to meet individual requirements whether for business or home then one client distribution instead of two would be better. This would allow more time to focus on fine tuning the distribution instead of spending additional time supporting both desktop distributions.
My personal preference whether for work or home is for what is offered in SUSE Linux 10 instead of using NLD. Though I admit I wish the support for SUSE Linux 10 was more extensive as compared to NLD. Anyway, my preference for a desktop GUI is KDE because I’m a former Windows user who wants ease of migration with software, especially the OS. Since Novell is targeting both enterprise and private sectors where Windows is mostly used on the desktop then the company should focus on providing an OS and tools that ease migration. If OSX was the major player globally on all desktops then I would of course recommend Gnome. Though since it’s not I can’t understand Novell’s interest in sticking with Gnome or even purchasing Ximian as both seem to be bad business decisions which shareholders may possibly question.
“Then they need to get HP and/or Dell to offer these preinstalled. That would make a significant difference.”
Both HP and Dell state they offer Novell solutions but this seems focused on the enterprise, not private markets. I don’t know if there is anything more Novell can do to persuade people like Michael Dell to offer their customers SUSE Linux preinstalled on for example laptops. Well possibly making the distribution even more user friendly than it already is will make it more appealing. Hopefully this is true by the time SUSE Linux 10.1 and NLD 10 are released. By the way one vendor I came across that does offer SUSE Linux preinstalled not only on workstations but also desktops and laptops is GamePC.com. Unfortunately unlike Dell they don’t offer financing for home users.
Edited 2006-03-05 20:06
I do not pretend to know everything about Novell. But I work with SUSE almost daily, so I know a bit about the differences between Novell’s OS products.
OpenSUSE is the development platform for the next release of SUSE linux.
SUSE linux is aimed at the home user and small/medium business. Well suited for both desktops and servers.
SUSE linux enterprise server is based on SUSE linux, but is more stable and more suitable for servers: It has better device support, certification from hardware vendors (HP), database vendors (Oracle), commercial support.
Novell Open Enterprise Server is based on SUSE Linux Enterprise Server, but it includes Netware services too.
Novell Linux desktop is based on SUSE linux. It features some extra stuff for corperate users, like Netware.
So I guess every one of their products has it’s place in the market. What Novell needs to do is better explain the differences between these products. If you are not familiar with them it’s hard to find out which one you need.
Case #1
——-
Sun bought Star Division – open sourced Star Office and now scratching their heads how to get people to pay for Star Office when Open Office is free.
Novell bought SuSE – open sourced SuSE Linux and now scratching their heads on how to get people to pay for Novell Linux Desktop when OpenSuSE is free.
Case #2
Sun bought Cobalt – didn’t know how to make it work, stopped development of Cobalt Raq and a ton of money down the tubes
Novell bought Ximian – didn’t know how to make Red Carpet or Mono work, ton of money down the tubes.
Novell bought SuSE – open sourced SuSE Linux and now scratching their heads on how to get people to pay for Novell Linux Desktop when OpenSuSE is free.
That conflict in how they’re presenting their software to customers, and what customers are actually paying for, is a big problem for them. It also means they can’t concentrate on making the software they have much better and stop people from migrating from Netware to Windows, and to a lesser extent, Red Hat.
Novell bought Ximian – didn’t know how to make Red Carpet or Mono work, ton of money down the tubes.
That’s about the size of it. Their fixed costs are huge and their revenue, although significant, is just being eroded.
Selling software that has absolutely no value-added anything over free versions, or over competitors, is an absolute no, no in the open source world. The days of packaging up the kind of software Novell produces and charging fees, or worse, the dreaded ‘service and support’ are very much over. You need a much cleverer business model, or you need to create a lot of value added tools above the distribution and open source software that you’re packaging up. You can’t expect to just package up open source software and maintain several hundred million per quarter in revenue, or simply throw your existing, dying proprietary software into the open source mix (i.e. OES) and expect anything to be different.
Novell are going out of business, althought Sun probably have a bit longer left.
Novell are going out of business, althought Sun probably have a bit longer left.
Its a bit too early to write Novell off just yet. They do have a strong position in government circles (along with Sun and RedHat) so they will always have a fair chance to win over a few million government desktops.
You cant however expect them to reap billions as they are fairly new to the Linux market and it will take time for them to become established and set their stall.
A better business plan, more consolidation (gnome vs KDE) and making investments in areas likely to generate the most income would be a lot wiser than what they are currently doing byt there is still plenty of time for Novell to change direction.
Its a bit too early to write Novell off just yet.
I’m sure that’s what Messman’s saying. Unfortunately, it doesn’t wash. The situation has been the same for years, and it hasn’t changed since Novell bought into Linux three years ago. There’s no evidence of a changed product line (they’re still trying to sell essentially the same stuff) and their whole strategy is near identical to before they bought Suse – except with slightly different software.
I expect that’s as a result of political resistance within the company by Netware and NDS/eDirectory loyalists, plus blind faith by management that maintaining the status quo plus this magical Linux and open source formula will reap benefits. It won’t, and it’s Messman’s job (as well as the new boy’s) to be strong and sweep that aside. If they can’t they’re in trouble.
You cant however expect them to reap billions as they are fairly new to the Linux market…
I’m not expecting them to reap billions, and neither are their shareholders. However, they have very little chance of that. They’re also not a Linux company, which is why they’re losing out to Red Hat. Their core products use Linux (OES for example), they’re not open sourced (eDirectory vs OpenLDAP etc) and it is not a Linux distribution as everyone knows it.
and making investments in areas likely to generate the most income
I’m sure that’s what Messman is saying to his shareholders as well, but that’s extremely vague. What are the areas likely to generate income, or more specifically, likely to generate income that is not declining?
there is still plenty of time for Novell to change direction.
Well they’ve still got time as they can just about teeter on living off their cash pile. However, it’s not something that will keep them alive as a company or please shareholders.
I know some people around here really don’t like to be told that, hence the ridiculous modding, but there it is. If you have something sensible to say (apart from this ridiculous “Novell have time, they’re open sourcing and focusing on the desktop” rubbish), you can all be my guest.
FYI: One of Novell’s products (ZENworks Linux management) is based on Red Carpet, which in turn is build with Mono. And I can tell you from my own experience that they’ve done it right.
Big companies and government don’t care about free software (as in beer). They care about freedom (as in speech), but even more importantly they need commercial support. Try running SAP, Peoplesoft or Oracle on OpenSUSE. You might get it to work, but don’t call SAP if it doesn’t.
Novell can offer support, they offer additional tools to manage your datacenter (try managing hundreds of servers with YaST). They offer staff training too. If you have a company with more than 50 Linux servers, Novell is one of the company’s you’ll want to talk to. It will be well worth the investment.
Oh man, that’s my second Novell fanboy reply. I’ll stop now
Like I said the GNU/Linux division is loosing money and cant carry its own weight and is dragging down the rest of the company.
Like I already said there not selling enough of them , they should be on par with Red Hat number of sale and even taking away there clients , its the opposite.
Like I already said the R&D on GNU/Linux at Novell is not on par with a good ROI. They spend billions and get millions in return. There promotion and publicity is as big as Red Hat and yet they loose to Red Hat 9 out of 10 time.
They need to stop there massive but not directed R&D investment in GNU/Linux and compare and figure out why they loose to Red Hat so often. Throwing money at a problem dont mean your gonna solve a problem. They need to work on there offers so that people say why use Red Hat when Novell offer more for less and is better cheaper and faster to maintain and is more secure.
Novell has a price advantage over RH in the high performance computing area, where RH’s price model is really very bad. HP and others have realized this and that’s a big reason why they are supporting Novell for HPC use.
Is that enough to drive Novell’s revenues where it should be? Of course not, but it is still a good grip on the market.
“why they are supporting Novell for HPC use.”
HP support anyone of value , getting there support dont equal that all there model shipping in any category are going to have Novell as default or even as an option.
The financial statement (and the previous one a few months ago) suggests that Novell’s Linux/OSS side is doing OK. Not spectacular, and not as well as they’d like, but it has a good rep and it is growing.
The core of the problem with Novell is that the Linux/OSS side is a small fraction of the size needed to support the rest of the company which is doing badly. Essentially, Novell bet on a race: that they could grow their new Linux/OSS side fast enough to offset the decline in the rest of the company. For whatever reason, that bet hasn’t paid off. The result is steady decline and shareholder unrest.
Since Novell are sitting on $1.7 billion in cash and short-term assets, they are at risk of some shareholders turning up and demanding that the company be broken up for hard dollars. This is the stock market for you and has nothing to do with the quality of SuSE Linux. Even if SuSE’s sales doubled, the situation would be little different.
“The financial statement (and the previous one a few months ago) suggests that Novell’s Linux/OSS side is doing OK.”
If all you watch is revenue. But revenue is not everything. Explain why they canned a lot of the GNU/linux developper then ? If its growing and the rest is in decline you cut the rest not whats improving. Reality most of what they bought whas hyped and not making real money or recurring profit.
“The core of the problem … the company which is doing badly”
No , the problem is they invest to heavily , too soon in what dont bring that much in return. They still dont use everything and integrated everything they bought into a lean solution. They also have too many competiting solution inside the same company.
“Essentially, Novell bet … the rest of the company.”
No , they tought they bought the #2 company in a new and improving market , that they themself only touched partially. A good example would be if Wallmart had bought Apple to get into computer when they wehre down a bit. Apple is a real #2.
“For whatever reason, that bet hasn’t paid off. The result is steady decline and shareholder unrest.”
Trowing money at a problem and buying a lemon you tought whas a futur cash cow , is never going to help you be more profitable.
“Since Novell are sitting … company be broken up for hard dollars. ”
It dont make sense yet , they will ask that they spend less on R&D and push for better ROI.
“This is the stock market for you and has nothing to do with the quality of SuSE Linux.”
Its a Novell protfolio , what they do and invest in them as impact on Novell bottom line. If they report 1 dolar investment for 5$ revenue the stock market will make the share value improve. For now they invest
100 000 for 1$ in revenue.
“Even if SuSE’s sales doubled, the situation would be little different.”
No it would mean that Novell just as to wait longuer , it all depends if they invest another billion to get that 54 milion more or they are just seling products on there own.
The stock market value of a share dont decide a company
futur , the management can use that 1.7 billion in many ways. One of wich could be to drive down the share price value of Red Hat and buy them at lower price. merging with Red Hat when they have enough voting share. Or they can offer to buy more other GNU/Linux company. etc …
You still fail to recognise the problem , which make your fabulation and delusion absurd.
Novell did not make 54 million , how much did they make , do you even know ? What made that money ? wher ethat 1.7 Billion come from ? , this means that the rest made it and since they did not invest anymore in it , its highly profitable , hence the problem is the GNU/Linux division.
If all you watch is revenue. But revenue is not everything.
Yes it is in Novell’s case. It is staying static and gradually declining while their fixed costs are unaltered.
No , the problem is they invest to heavily , too soon in what dont bring that much in return.
Yer. After three years shareholders and investors have no time for that. That’s called a hopeless case.
It dont make sense yet , they will ask that they spend less on R&D and push for better ROI.
Breaking the company up does make sense. There is absolutely no hope of a return on investment. You could wait five to ten years for that to happen, and it probably won’t because the current situation won’t change.
No it would mean that Novell just as to wait longuer
Wait how much longer? Their investors have waited three years and their situation hasn’t improved from even before the Suse aquisition.
it all depends if they invest another billion to get that 54 milion
Oh, sh*t! And how much sense does that make, oh fountain of wisdom? You were saying something about ROI? Divide 54 million (whatever that is) into a billion and work out some timeframes.
Novell did not make 54 million
Oh they didn’t?! Well that was your figure, and I just assumed it was the revenue for Novell’s Linux and OSS income, which is wrong by the way. It was 56 million according to the article.
how much did they make , do you even know ?
Do you know? Read the aricle?
What made that money ? wher ethat 1.7 Billion come from ?
That’s the cash pile that Novell are currently living off ;-).
this means that the rest made it and since they did not invest anymore in it , its highly profitable
Is it really?! Wow.
hence the problem is the GNU/Linux division.
Is it? There are parts of their Linux division that are a problem, but the point is that their cash cow business of Netware, eDirectory and other software is declining and they’ve badly handled how Linux was going to solve that because the situation is the same. It’s not the problem of the Linux division itself at all – it’s about the management and leadership, or lack of it.
I think Novell should employ you. You would fit in well ;-).
“Yes it is in … fixed costs are unaltered.”
Again your wrong , and keep spreading the same usual lies that you always do , read up on there financials , they havent been stale and done nothing as you wrongly suggest.
“After three years shareholders and investors have no time for that. ”
Three years ? What are you on about ?
“Breaking the company up does make sense.”
Really ? WHY ? because you think so ? please …
“There is absolutely no hope of a return on investment.”
Why ? on what investment ?
“You could wait five to ten years for that to happen, and … won’t change.”
You cant even read what’s availaible now and whats really happening , and your able to predict 5 – 10 years from now , please …
“Wait how much longer?”
As long as it takes.
“Their investors have … the Suse aquisition. ”
Thats not what there financial says.
“Oh, sh*t! And how much sense does that make”
You truely dont know anything about R&D.Sometime you need to spend a couple billion up front in order to make more billions after.
“You were saying something about ROI?”
Yes , currently they spend too much on things that are not of value to the market and possible clients.
“Divide 54 million (whatever that is)”
The current profit from the GNU/Linux division.
“Oh they … the article. ”
No , Novell made more , since everything else is loosing money , according to you , which is wrong , where did the rest of the money they report as income come from ?
“Do you know? Read the aricle? ”
Yes , Yes.
“That’s the cash pile that Novell are currently living off ;-). ”
No , thats the money that the product and other division you keep bashing made for Novell , before they had a GNU/Linux division , is the right answer.
“Is it really?!”
Yes.
“Is it? ”
Yes.
“There are parts of their Linux division that are a problem”
No , its the entire thing.
“but the point is”
No , thats what you keep sugesting and is absolutely wrong. As usual.
“that their cash cow business of Netware, eDirectory and other software is declining and they’ve badly handled how Linux was going to solve that because the situation is the same. ”
No , the situation is not the same.
” It’s not the problem of the Linux division itself at all ”
Actually it is. Entirely.
” it’s about the management and leadership, or lack of it. ”
Now , you blame the management after the old products.
Novell for all its problem dont seem to have management problem. They dont seem afraid to try new things either.
“I think Novell should employ you.”
Why ?
“You would fit in well ;-).”
Thanks , I take that as a compliment.
Like I said the GNU/Linux division is loosing money and cant carry its own weight and is dragging down the rest of the company.
Well no. The Linux side (The Suse and distribution side) of the company is being dragged down by the other parts of the company that are just simply dying (or haven’t got off the ground – Ximian, Red Carpet, Mono….), and have been dying for some time. That was the point of buying Suse.
Like I already said the R&D on GNU/Linux at Novell is not on par with a good ROI. They spend billions and get millions in return.
Actually, they get nowt from their research and development. The maintenance of the distribution and the software is hardly R & D.
They need to stop there massive but not directed R&D investment in GNU/Linux and compare and figure out why they loose to Red Hat so often.
That’s quite complex to answer, but it’s down to the fact that Novell is not seen as a Linux company by many, they’re still pushing Netware (OES) and eDirectory (so people perceive them not to have changed) and OES is simply not a Linux distribution. There are fees attached, as well as the service and support, which is all Red Hat charges for.
The reason why Novell loses out to Windows is because people are simply using Netware and Novell to manage a Windows environment. There’s a lot of duplication, because if you manage a Windows network then you need to have Active Directory and all your employees in it. All of that may be synchronised from eDirectory, but you’re still at a disadvantage. Why maintain two directory services infrastructures?
Believe it or not, Red Hat will eventually find the same problems, and Linux companies will eventually be reeled back to where they started – zero.
Edited 2006-03-05 20:00
“The Linux side Ximian, Red Carpet, Mono….), and have been dying for some time. ”
You dont realise that Ximian , Red Carpet , Mono are all part of the GNU/Linux division. Dying also dont mean loosing or bleeding money. It just mean you sale less then what you used to.
“That was the point of buying Suse.”
No , they tought they where buying a highly profitable #2 GNU/linux vendor on the cheap. Which SUSE whas not.
“Actually, they … software is hardly R & D.”
Wrong as usual.
“That’s quite complex to answer”
I agree , I know you dont have the answer either.
“Believe it or not”
I dont believe anything you say if I cant confirm it from a trusted source. Nothing you have ever said to me or read about when you talked about Novell/SUSE or SUSE whas ever accurate.
“Red Hat will eventually … they started – zero. ”
Wrong as usual.
If one take there revnue alone they are doing great , I dont think anyone making 54 million in revenue is ever going to complain , problem is that to get this 54 million they paid billions.
If one take there revnue alone they are doing great , I dont think anyone making 54 million in revenue is ever going to complain , problem is that to get this 54 million they paid billions.
As a matter of interest, perhaps you could post the figures on which you base this assertion? And while you’re at it, I’d be very grateful if you could also post the figures behind your assertion elsewhere that it is the GNU/Linux parts of Novell that are dragging its finances down.
I’m sure a man of your expertise and communications skills will have no problem with any of this and I’d love to see them.
Thanks.
I tought you where the expert on the subject , and had all the relevant informations and numbers , here is what I could found for free :
http://www.novell.com/company/ir/qresults/
http://www.webwire.com/ViewPressRel.asp?SESSIONID=&aId=10416
http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=mozclient&scoring=d&ie=utf-8&…
if that dont please you buy a share of Novell and ask for a detailed financial report.
You dont realise that Ximian , Red Carpet , Mono are all part of the GNU/Linux division.
And how much are they spending on maintaining and pushing those pieces of software forwards? Suse already had a packaging and update system (now being ripped out and replaced apparently), and just how much do they sell as a result of having Mono in their distribution?
Does anyone say “Oh, we can do .Net development on Linux” and buy OES and SLES as a result? No, they don’t. That’s the material point, therefore it simply doesn’t make any money.
What they’re selling to people might sound lovely to open source people and people who frequent these forums, but it is absolutely meaningless to people out there in the real world.
Wrong as usual.
Do you know what R & D is? Professing opinions without reasoning does not make your woeful lack of knowledge any better.
Oh, and do quote and reply to whole paragraphs which have the actual points in them. You just make yourself look like an idiot otherwise.
I agree , I know you dont have the answer either.
Hmmm. Rather than picking single sentences out, maybe your attention span can stretch to a whole paragraph or two like this one? :-
“…it’s down to the fact that Novell is not seen as a Linux company by many, they’re still pushing Netware (OES) and eDirectory (so people perceive them not to have changed) and OES is simply not a Linux distribution. There are fees attached, as well as the service and support, which is all Red Hat charges for.
The reason why Novell loses out to Windows is because people are simply using Netware and Novell to manage a Windows environment. There’s a lot of duplication, because if you manage a Windows network then you need to have Active Directory and all your employees in it. All of that may be synchronised from eDirectory, but you’re still at a disadvantage. Why maintain two directory services infrastructures?”
I think you’ll find those are where the actual points are ;-).
I dont believe anything you say if I cant confirm it from a trusted source.
And your bollocks comes from…..what trusted source exactly?
It’s called looking at Novell financials and making observations and logical reasoning based on what I see in the real world – in many Novell using companies ;-). If you don’t like what’s being said, rather than talking rubbish and replying to your own select sentences, just say so.
I know some people just don’t like what’s being said and blow a fuse. Maybe they see Novell as some messiah that will continue to blindly bankroll many open source projects, but I’m afraid that isn’t going to continue to be the case.
Nothing you have ever said to me or read about when you talked about Novell/SUSE or SUSE whas ever accurate.
He, he, he. Such as? Oh, and nice way of avoiding responding to the points made.
Wrong as usual.
If one take there revnue alone they are doing great , I dont think anyone making 54 million in revenue is ever going to complain
Hmmm. Where does this 54 million come from (for Novell’s OES, OSS business it’s 56 million)? OK, I’ll humour you.
Wrong. You do complain if you have Novell’s fixed costs :-).
However, you’re not thinking of the future, as any good business person should. Mind you, I doubt whether you think ahead much. 54 million (or 56 for Novell, which is what’s in the article ;-)) is an absolute drop in the ocean with all the server business out there. Microsoft wouldn’t even get out of bed for that.
The point is that if you’re living in a Windows world, you’re using and relying on Samba in your distribution and your customers are using another directory services infrastructure (eDirectory, RHDS) over the top of Active Directory, as many businesses using Novell software are doing, you are always on to a loser in the long-term.
Red Hat and Novell kid themselves that they can make money out of the high-end stuff, and take money away from Unix. They can’t. The thing that threatens them they just don’t want to face.
Given those threats, that kind of revenue can disappear just like that. It’s nothing. Yes, even for Red Hat as well. I know this might shock you, but many Linux companies are built on shaky foundations.
problem is that to get this 54 million they paid billions.
Errrr, right. Thank you for making the point. When you have that kind of return, even after three years, your bank manager will call that ‘going out of business‘. You may have a cash pile to keep going, but there’s just no future.
Your point is….what exactly?
Edited 2006-03-06 00:15
“And how much … their distribution? ”
Apparently not enough , you seem to think that they had no value.
“Does anyone say “Oh, we can do .Net development on Linux” and buy OES and SLES as a result? No, they don’t. ”
I would not be so bold in your false claim , you would be really surprised of learning the opposite.
“What they’re … real world. ”
Another stupid Open Source comment , Microsoft and Apple are built on Open Source , but thats not real world enough for you. Semms to me the on who is clueless and out of touch with reality is you.
“Do you know what R & D is?”
Yes , I can even say that you really dont.
“Professing opinions without reasoning does not make your woeful lack of knowledge any better.”
I dont make baseless opinion like you do 😉
“Oh, and do quote and reply to whole paragraphs which have the actual points in them. You just make yourself look like an idiot otherwise. ”
You dont have any point and anything valid or of value to say. Thats my point entirely.
“Hmmm. Rather than picking single sentences out, maybe your attention span can stretch to a whole paragraph or two like this one? :- ”
I actually replyed to it entirely :
The only thing valid you said whas :
“That’s quite complex to answer”
To which I replyed :
“I agree , I know you dont have the answer either. ”
“I think you’ll find those are where the actual points are ;-).”
No , because like I said you dont have a realistic view of Novell , hence anything you will say about it is down right inaplicable and wrong.
“And your bollocks comes from…..what trusted source exactly? ”
Novell for one.
“It’s called looking … real world ”
Nope , its called your interpretation and missinformation of how you think Novell financial is in you own little bubble.
” If you don’t like what’s being said, rather than talking rubbish and replying to your own select sentences, just say so. ”
I dont talk rubbish , I just say clearly and without an once of doubt that your wrong , its called refuting lies and bulshit where I come from.
“I know some people just don’t like what’s being said and blow a fuse”
No , I just dont like your lies , nothing personnal , you can be a great person , your just clueless and lying in this case , sorry to burt your personnal paranoia bubble.
“Maybe they see Novell as some messiah that will continue to blindly bankroll many open source projects, but I’m afraid that isn’t going to continue to be the case.”
I really like how some people mix religion with actual business information. I get your false point , I also clearly get that you dont like Open Source. Dont worry it will come to pass whne you realise that Open Source is at the base for everything and that it mke more money then closed source in the long run for everyone.
“Hmmm. Where does this 54 million come from (for Novell’s OES, OSS business it’s 56 million)? OK, I’ll humour you. ”
Why dont you tell me , where a 54 nillion might come from.
“Wrong. You do complain if you have Novell’s fixed costs :-). ”
No , but thats been one of your false point all along.
“However, you’re not thinking of the future”
Really , because youve been wrong about Novell and me before …
“as any good … business out there.”
Your starting to get everyone point. Go on …
“Microsoft wouldn’t even get out of bed for that.”
You really dont know microsoft that well either.
“The point is that if you’re living in a Windows world”
Its a novell topic. There is no Windows world outside of the desktop.
“as many businesses using Novell software are doing, you are always on to a loser in the long-term. ”
Because Novell surviving Microsoft make them loser. You really have a strange view of the real world.
“Red Hat and Novell kid themselves that they can make money out of the high-end stuff, and take money away from Unix”
They already do , a lot too 😉 , but thats reality , not your made up world 😉
“The thing that threatens them they just don’t want to face. ”
What would that be , more of your nonsense ?
“Given those threats”
I am glad you whent specific on which threat you speak of …
“that kind of revenue … shaky foundations. ”
There built on GNU/Linux. I know its a solid foundation.
“Errrr, right. Thank you for making the point.”
No problem , you seem to be keeping the same wrong point you had from the beginning do tha the problem is the other division at Novell do …
“When you have that kind of return, even after three years, your bank manager will call that ‘going out of business’. ”
You might need to discuss reality with your bank manager , before stating comment he would never make.
“You may have a cash pile to keep going, but there’s just no future. ”
Because we all know that cash pile is not what mathers , you need SUSE bankrupt and unable to pay the bill on itself to be able to have a working solution. Your wrong …
“Your point is….what exactly?”
Its all written , in this post and other , you just need to read them. BTW , Yes the article say 56 million.
Here’s an idea. You two should shut up, as you both look like idiots. Exchange email addresses, fight there, and quit spamming this website. Watching you two fight about the same thing got boring after the first 2 or 3 comments.
You need to learn to add , there is more then two people discussing this subject ,or replying to my post , if you see a fight , you need to socialize a bit its a written argumentation , if you see spamming , you need a dictionnary or encyclopedia to clearly explain to you the meaning of the word you missused , nobody is forcing you to read my post ( If thats the case you need to seek a doctor those people only exist in your minds , please seek help ) , if you find them boring it sjust that the subject dont interest you in the first place , just jump to the next one. You might just find something that is more interesting to you. Otherwise take a hike , seriously if you get harrassed by other people posting its time to get some fresh air.
Have a nice day.
Here’s an idea. You two should shut up, as you both look like idiots. Exchange email addresses, fight there, and quit spamming this website.
Hmmm. This site is called OSNews, and if you have something on topic related to the actual article, be my guest.
“And how much … their distribution? ”
Apparently not enough , you seem to think that they had no value.
Since you can’t speak English or communicate effectively in any way, I find it amusing that you pick out parts of sentences that others have written and then glue them together to create something you think says what you want it to say!
I dont make baseless opinion like you do 😉
ROTFL.
Its a novell topic. There is no Windows world outside of the desktop.
Novell lives in a world where their software manages Windows desktops……..
You might need to discuss reality with your bank manager , before stating comment he would never make.
Right……..
And that, boy and girls, is the biggest, and stinkiest, load of nothing ever created.
read up on there financials , they havent been stale and done nothing as you wrongly suggest.
Their fixed costs are too high. End.
Another stupid Open Source comment , Microsoft and Apple are built on Open Source
Oh wow. I love these stories we get from other universes.
You truely dont know anything about R&D.Sometime you need to spend a couple billion up front in order to make more billions after
When are Novell going to start making billions? Divide their current revenue into the amount invested and give me a payback time.
you would be really surprised of learning the opposite.
Sadly for you, not happening.
Three years ? What are you on about ?
When did Novell buy into Linux twit?
I really like how some people mix religion with actual business information.
Learn to speak English.
Seriously. Lay off the keyboard and get a cat scan.
Novell has to decide where it wants to fight and go with it:
1. To be big in server dumb, unchangeable terminal markets – aka RedHat’s
– Suck the life out of the Suse’s underlying system. Slap Gnome on top with the tools to control the servers (Continue where it started with yast.) and forget the KDE and that whole “desktop” thing. Keep some closed technology (directory/single sign on, etc) bolted into the system.
2. To conquer Windows XXxx Pro, Desktop-oriented land (the platform where ISVs rule)
– Feed and shape KDE (preassure Trolls into making their non-GPL pricing tiered, so “easiest programming platform” also becomes “financially easy to digest”) Stop wasting effort on the “immovable object” of monkey fame. Sucker ISVs into “certifications” and “support”
3. The Windows Home “desktop” market.
You don’t want to be there. It’s an uphill battle. Xandros, Linspire already mill it fairly well (KDE-land from sea to shining sea). You can slide there after making as foothold in Windows Pro land.
Novell, take your pick.
It’s all because they didn’t release NLD 10 yet. Thus RH has took advantage of that by futher selling more to big OEMs. Currently NOVELL (novl) market cap is @ 3.07 Billion; Redhat (rhat) is @ 5.18 Billion. If you observe both makers over time you will notice inverse relation between them, which translates to being competitive to each other.
Edited 2006-03-05 21:57
Truthfully, the report could have been spun two different ways:
1) “Novell’s open source and identity management divisions are making huge increases over last year, while the Netware kernel continues to lose ground as it is slowly phased out.”
2) “Novell is losing ground in it’s core Netware business. In other news, they’ve had some success with open source and identity management.”
The article went with #2, because it’s more dramatic. But both 1 and 2 essentially say the same thing as what the article linked to reported.
Keep in mind, NLD isn’t for a home user, and it’s not even for the average linux geek– It’s for a tightly controlled, centrally managed linux desktop in a corporate environment.
OES is either a netware kernel which is rapidly becoming unusable (as a NW admin from 4.10 to present, I can safely say the current kernel is bloatware), or a SLES distribution with the same eDirectory, ZenWorks, iPrint, etc. bolted on top. In it’s current form, it’s a bit rough, and needs work. But it’s a good start.
The openSuSE team *is* their R&D center– Both NLD 10 and SLES 10 (And thus the next OES version, which I expect won’t have a netware kernel) are going to be based on openSuSE 10.x.
The real problem is that Novell has some of the worst marketing in existence. For years, we’ve joked about Novell’s “Stealth Marketing Division”… Only it’s not a joke. It’s a hard, cold, reality, that means while I’ve had centrally managed windows workstations since 1997, most of the industry is completely unaware of what Zenworks can do.
I get the feeling that everyone is judging Novell on the now. R&D investments take time to see anything positive come out of them.
Admit it, people are whining about mono, bla bla C#, complained how they are killing KDE. We at least they are doing something.
I like it how they are freshly ATTACKING desktop linux with these new frameworks/infrastructure (mono, Xgl) applications (ifolder, banshee, compiz, beagle).
Time will tell but i’d rather pur my money on a risk taker!
And who modded you up?
I get the feeling that everyone is judging Novell on the now.
Damn right. The present was the future when Novell started investing in Linux three years ago. Keep talking about the future.
I like it how they are freshly ATTACKING desktop linux…
Christ. Novell are always freshly attacking desktop Linux.
Time will tell but i’d rather pur my money on a risk taker!
Now you know why dot com booms happen.
oh darn, what are we going to do without thier free innovation?
Novell should have died a long time ago and they thought they could use Linux to help them along.
I guess that is what screws up so many companies these days for an OS that is supposed to be free
and linux users don’t buy crap.
Whatever happened to that company that bought word perfect, oh yeah they bought it from Novell and look where both of those companies are now.
Wow, imagine that..