Linspire and one of its biggest desktop Linux rivals, Ubuntu, are talking about collaborating to offer Linspire’s CNR (Click-N-Run) application download service to Ubuntu users. CNR is a subscription service ($20 annually) through which users can install thousands of software programs with ‘literally’ one click, CEO Kevin Carmony said. Ubuntu, according to DistroWatch.com the no. 1 most popular Linux distribution (as ascertained by number of clicks), has nothing like CNR available for its users. Both Linspire and Ubuntu are based on the Debian kernel.
Ain’t Klick good enought?
No in my experience. The klik packages are not self-sufficient but they don’t test each supported distros for missing packages hence a lot of malfunctionning programs. I can be adapted though. But don’t any distro help ?
Ain’t apt-get good enought?
ok, ok, I know…
The more choice the better.
This is all good.
“Ubuntu, according to DistroWatch.com the no. 1 most popular Linux distribution (as ascertained by number of downloads)”
Is’nt the Distrowatch ranking made from sub page hits to distrowatch.com/ubuntu ?. Total downloads for any distro is rather harder to guess or rank.
You sir are correct. On the distrowatch.com site they even call the ranking “Page Hit Ranking”.
This issue has been clarified in the past on OSNews. Distrowatch is not a true indication of who’s using what for a Linux distribution. What it does do is point out on any given month what distribution link was clicked on the most from Distrowatch.com, not from the distribution developer site or purchases made by authorized resellers (ie: preinstalled system purchases or retail boxes like SUSE Linux).
“Debian kernel”? AFAIK Debian do not have a kernel of their own. In fact, their operating system supports several kernels, such as FreeBSD’s and GNU Hurd.
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Any Plan to support the Vista kernel ????
… When Microsoft releases it opensource, after giving up to Free/Libre/OpenSource Movement…
Angel
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
At gaining what he calls his “commercial interest”. Ask him if he’d open source CNR and publish the code to Mark for free, and hell tell you that it doesnt fit his “commericial interests”.
Moderator @ Ubuntuforums.org
I guess he will open source CNR after Mark open sources Launchpad.
“I guess he will open source CNR after Mark open sources Launchpad.”
Well said. Launchpad, Malone and many of Ubuntu infrastructure is completely proprietary and sold as commercial products by Canonical just like CNR but when Linspire offers a commercial service for commercial products that cannot be legally obtained for free in US, the Ubuntu moderator wants to open source them and give the code to mark. Irony.
Where do you see Canonical selling Launchpad, Malone, or any of this other stuff? If they’re selling it, I can’t find it on their website. In fact, I can’t find any information on Canonical ever having plans to sell Launchpad or any software, just support for Ubuntu.
https://wiki.launchpad.canonical.com/
It seems to me they are keeping their development plans very much in the open. From all of the information there, I think they are planning on releasing Launchpad as FOSS, otherwise why would they be publishing developer documentation and coding standards. The plan seems to be to do a 1.0 release July 6th.
“Where do you see Canonical selling Launchpad, Malone, or any of this other stuff? If they’re selling it, I can’t find it on their website. ”
Canonical is selling and customising it for people who buy the support contracts for Ubuntu for deploying things like IBM DB2 which does require a Canonical support contract.
The only reason Mark shuttleworth doesnt want to open source it yet is because he is basing his business on those proprietary components. I dont mind that except that Ubuntu is touted as free for everyone and Ubuntu moderator complains about Linspire offering a commercial service for their product while Ubuntu itself is entirely based on proprietary infrastructure including stuff like Launchpad, Malone, build system etc…
… but I don’t think they have enough software worth paying for as yet … what they do offer will need to improve I think.
So now Ubuntu users will have the option to pay for the download service instead of using it for free? Great news, I guess? At least for Kevin Carmony, who has the opportunity of increasing Linspire’s profit…
I like the idea. Yes Linspire will profit but its good for all. Think about the ease of use of installing files. Ubuntu will still be free and you can still apt-get if you want to.
Maybe this will be the start of game publishers moving to Linux, because we have a place to go to for easy installs. Come on thats only about $1.66US a month, that a 1 liter soda with tax in the US. A bag of chips is $.99 cents US. Who cares if Linspire profit, are they making a killing? NO. They need money to maintain updates, web site and connection.
They’re not perse promoting there distro. Maybe just maybe adobe will finally port there stuff over. think long term no short term. Easy install more people might switch.
Just my 2 cents.
” Come on thats only about $1.66US a month, that a 1 liter soda with tax in the US. A bag of chips is $.99 cents US.”
For their juiciest software one needs to pay extra.
For users just starting using Linux, I think it would be worth the $20 to them for installing applications. But, after a year, I doubt many will nenew that $20/year sub simply from the fact that they’ll be more comfortable with Linux after being on it for a year, and will be able to just use apt for free instead.
But, I do like the idea of this going forward if for no other reason than to have two distros working with each other (albeit, it’s just about packages), but any collaboration is generally a good thing.
CNR would give more power to Ubuntu users. It offers an easy way to buy & install some commercial apps and a legal way to distribute some restricted multimedia codecs and other non-free stuff. It’ll be interesting to see how this turns out.
About the DistroWatch page hit counter — some 60% of the DistroWatch visitors use MS Windows and from those that use GNU/Linux, there appears to be a bigger amount of Debian users than Ubuntu users. 😛
http://distrowatch.com/awstats/awstats.DistroWatch.com.osdetail.htm…
I think it would be cool if you could legally purchase DVD playback software like LinDVD (from the WinDVD people) and multimedia codecs. Maybe it could demonstrate a market for software companies to make Linux versions of their software.
VLC installs from the package manager, also grab libdvdplay0 and libdvdcss2 from the vlc website, change your default dvd auto play command too “vlc %d” and you will be in bussiness.. no purchase req.
Yeahs, that’s easy and free, but it’s illegal in the US
This very topic has generated almost 50 pages of comments in one thread alone, with almost fifty percent of Ubuntu users telling Carmony to keep his “commercial interests.”
Why would I pay for CNR when the Synaptic Package Manager is easier to use, free and alredy part of Ubuntu
I really hate everybody telling me how easy Synaptic is to use.
I find it bassackwards and counter intuitive to how I like to handle software downloads and installs. (I like having a file downloaded and saved in a folder so that I know right where a previous version is and can easily reinstall [without needing to download all over again] it if the new version sucks, or if I need an older version to install on a machine that can’t run the newer version, and the software is no longer avalible for download.)
I use (and like) Ubuntu, but I would rather use the command line (and I HATE the command line) to install Opera than try to configure Synaptic to find Opera, or scroll though Synaptic’s ohdearjesusgod long list of files most of which I have no idea what they do.
The the only thing I find Synaptic easy to use to do is find and install the “safe” system updates.
Also with a download, “make with the clicky” and run system of software install, I’ve never had to clean up a software install hell caused by checking the box above the software I meant to install which is what I did one time with Synaptic.
I never understood why linux distros present these huge list of packages, without distinguising application, libraries and utilities.
There are already hundreds of applications so not filtering out libraries is, well, not very ergonomic. And I credit Ubuntu for having a simple application installer rather than synaptic as the default.
Also, when you go on gnomefiles or kdeapps, why did none of the commercial distro ask to place distro specific handles that would kick start the installation ?
People like to browse, that’s why there are shops and that shopping websites try to emulate that.
Re: “I never understood why linux distros present these huge list of packages, without distinguising application, libraries and utilities.”
Not every Linux distribution is the same. SUSE Linux and Mandriva Linux for example come with a GUI Control Center that closely resembles Windows XP Control Center. Though unlike Windows XP Control Center the ones used in SUSE Linux and Mandriva Linux have seperate catagory package listings.
It’s clear from reading the actual material that Mr Carmony is referring mainly to patented multimedia stuff – mp3, DVD, etc. There would be no point in paying for CNR to get what apt-get delivers anyway quite apart from Ubuntu’s pledge to remain free of charge. However, for some users paying $20 a year for CNR might be a fair deal if in exchange they got top-quality multimedia software without any installation/legal hassles.
Personally I wouldn’t use this service but it is one way of making Linux easier for some folks and clearing up some of the difficulties new users often experience with getting mp3 and DVD stuff to work, whatever their distro. If people like CNR and wish to use it I can’t see what the problem would be, providing it remains an optional alternative or add-on.
Ubuntu, according to DistroWatch.com the no. 1 most popular Linux distribution (as ascertained by number of downloads)
No, Distrowatch ranks by page views on their sites, not downloads. How the hell could they monitor downloads anyways?
So that’s the plan. Which is why Ubuntu did not join DCC and why a ruich guy dumped a bunch of money what was sure to be a profitless Linux OS project.
It’s a slow migration path to a commercial Linux. Novel Suse, say hello to Linspire Ubuntu.
Well maybe it’s a good thing in the end really. OSS is great, but it seems like commercial interest is really neccessary to polish it off. Hopefully the future will bring a healthy balance. Today is one of extremes.
Pro
-cnr is a legitimate way to access patented, nonfree software. Unless this feature could be added to synaptic i think this is a good idea.
-Easy for noobs to use
-Preview screenshots of applications, user comments/reviews
Cons
-THIS IS BIG, when i used apt with linspire it broke my install, ask anyone using Linspire, it will break your install. Something about incompatible libraries(guessing). whatever they did to change debian to linspire, makes it impossible to use apt properly. If they do this to Ubuntu it will be hell. Unless they can garuntee this wont happen i won’t recomend this to anyone. No matter how easy it is to use. or how ethical. I DON”T LIKE BORKED SYSTEMS.
” Come on thats only about $1.66US a month, that a 1 liter soda with tax in the US. A bag of chips is $.99 cents US.”
For their juiciest software one needs to pay extra.
Either you are confusing Adept with Synaptic, or you’re talking out of your ass.
I guess you missed that big giant SEARCH button on the toolbar. I agree, it’s pretty hard to find software when there’s a search feature built into the package manager. :rolleyes:
And I guess having all the .deb files stored under /var/apt/cache is too different from having them stored under /home/$USER/whoknowswhere, with each user having their own copies of the same files taking up space. Yeah, I can see how that would be better than a central directory.
Either you are one of the laziest, dumbest Linux users out there, or a troll with barely enough intelligence to run Windows.
Either you are confusing Adept with Synaptic, or you’re talking out of your ass.
I have synaptic on my system, I don’t use adept.
I guess you missed that big giant SEARCH button on the toolbar. I agree, it’s pretty hard to find software when there’s a search feature built into the package manager. :rolleyes:
And when you type something in for which there are several versions of the software ,and you’re not quite sure which one you need? Because the descriptions I get of those files from Synaptic, sometimes not as straightforward and helpful as I’d like.
(Or, in my case, several versions of a program and I managed to click the wrong one in the list that got pulled up.)
Or what if you have a partial file name? Go head, search for, say, libstdc++ and tell me how many files you get.
And I guess having all the .deb files stored under /var/apt/cache is too different from having them stored under /home/$USER/whoknowswhere, with each user having their own copies of the same files taking up space. Yeah, I can see how that would be better than a central directory.
I have a 20 gig hard drive on my power book. I’m barely using any of it. Space is not a problem. (Although I am looking fondly at the 700mb drive that’s being used as a bookend and remember the days when wow, that was a lot of space …)
But, really, I would like my software to be downloaded and installed into a directory whose name made immediate sense to any user. A directory named something useful like say, “software” or “programs’ or “applications” instead of some crap like /usr/bin or /var/apt/cache {sarcasm}(Variable apartment cache? Variety apointment cache? Variable apointment cache? Variable aptitude cache?){/sarcasm}
Either you are one of the laziest, dumbest Linux users out there, or a troll with barely enough intelligence to run Windows.
So, saying that I don’t like synaptic and find it seriously inflexible and flawed makes me lazy and dumb? Thank you for playing, please try again.
And I’m a troll despite the fact that I said I like Ubuntu? (BTW, I send them enough money for 2 extra large deluxe pizzas and a 2 liter bottle of Mountain Dew each time I download a new version because I like their software and want to see their distro improved.) [As an aside, that amount is based off of an in-joke I have with comp-sci buddy of mine.]
Finally, here at home where I am allowed to have the computers and OSes of my choice, we are 100% Windows free. (Okay, there is that old w98 box out in the garage … but that’s just because I haven’t cleared the desk space needed to revive it as a Xubuntu machine.)
So, no, dood, I still don’t like Synaptic and find it cludgy and counterintuitive to the way I like to manage and organize my software installs.
Neener.
Just like with Linsprie pay for it or don’t! If they start charging for the os (Ubuntu) it’s self and they go back on what they say then you just don’t use it.
I think this is great, my mother, brother and sister love using Linspire because of CNR and between the 3 of them they pay 5 dollars a month (For CNR gold)
I love Ubuntu but CNR works very well, for instance I would pay the $1.50 or whatever just to have all my past installs saved for me in an account like CNR does. If I do a new or reinstall I can just log in and click select all and install and I will have the same setup!
Can’t do that with any installer out there for Linux right now.
It also gives you access to in one place to developers and updates and even upgrades all info I can go back and see from any place!
CNR is great, I do have one problem with it and that is Linspire sometimes takes tooooo long to get new apps into CNR. That drives me nuts. LOL! But for my mom, sister and brother it’s perfect! And I have always thought that Linspire should license CNR to all versions of Linux since they almost give away their OS anyway!
I hope the deal goes through! It would be nice if desktop versions of linux had a unified installer. (Software installer) That you could turn on and signup for if you want. If not then you use the free stuff!
I’ve tried all Ubuntus from version 5.1. Well… What can I say… Don’t use it if you can. God’ wittness I’ve tried. Hope it would improve with Linspire’s help.
Happy Xandros OCE user.
Remember, sometimes people WANT to pay for services, just becasuse you can do it another way and free doesnt mean its the way it should be done. For the new users to Linux, this is a kick arse idea.
Maybe this isnt for you, but I know it would work for countless amounts of people. I know everyone I have turned to using Linux would pay for something like this.
This is a good move (if it happens) for Linux on the desktop in general. Some people will say what we have now is already good enough, but in reality its just not true.
Dude, no wonder normal people get discouraged from using Linux with moronic comments like that.
Hell I find synaptic to be confusing and not very well organised, just because you apparently have all the skills needed to use it doesn’t make kadymae’s or anyone else experience any less valid.
just because you apparently have all the skills
And just because most linux users lack the skills doesn’t mean those who possess them should live with an install method they don’t like (I’m not saying here that ubuntu would loose dpkg/apt, I’m just thinking here). Well, you could say those skilled can use other distros. But distros seem to converge to serve 6pack crowds. That is not a bad thing, don’t get me wrong, moreover it’s the only way to attract the crowds, but “power” tools (i.e. for those with skill) should always remain as a choice. I would loose all my hair if I’d need to click my way through some web interface when installing my systems, but I can easily manage with apt-get and emerge.
For ma’ and pa’ a cnr-like install method in ubuntu (or, as it seems, cnr itself) would probably be a good move, so I think this collaboration between linspire and ubuntu could turn out great. For the rest of us, hopefully no real change.
It’s only really good if they also start porting/developping the software that are lacking on linux like the ones on the SUSE survey AND start a dedicated linux hardware shop, a bit like an Apple store, with everything that works in Linux (there is a lot now).
l3v1 I’m not saying those other methods should be removed, im saying that the elite attitude some people have about using linux should stop. Not everyone is going to have the same skillset, so something like this would be really tops for someone new to linux, even old hands who just cant be bothered with some of the fuss thats associated with installing software.
But im all for keeping the options there for the power user, and for the tinker as they are essential.
No matter what Linux distribution you use I don’t view it as being necessary for end users to pay to access a package manager utility. This is how CNR differs from other package managers such as YAST where CNR charges a service fee to access the software packages, most of which are free open source software. Since Linspire Inc already charges a fee for purchasing Linspire then they should only charge a fee for end users who want to purchase commercial software listed in the CNR warehouse. What is being done instead is they charge end users to access CNR then also charge an additional fee for commercially licensed software. While I agree with charging for commercially licensed software I don’t believe in charging an annual service fee just to access the CNR warehouse for free software available on other distributions. Think of CNR like having Microsoft tell you that you can’t use the Windows XP Control Center to install software unless you pay Microsoft an annual service fee. If you’re a Windows user I believe you would be upset if Microsoft tried pulling this tactic on consumers. Because the way CNR is marketed by Linspire Inc I don’t see this product being attractive to consumers who are educated on the differences between distributions.
Edited 2006-03-04 19:25
Here’s an idea. Ubuntu, Linspire and Xandros merge. Ubuntu becomes the open product, Linspire the commercial home product and Xandros the commercial professional product.