This is your daily IT Lawsuit News Feeder. Groklaw reports that IBM has subpoenad Microsoft in its enduring legal battle with SCO. IBM is demanding Microsoft delivers all communications between Microsoft and SCO, since June 28th 2002, including conversations Darl McBride may have had with Steve Ballmer. But no worries, that ain’t all! IBM, Red Hat, Sun, and Real have filed a complaint with the European Commission because Microsoft unfairly scotches competition. That was your daily IT Lawsuit News Feeder, end transmission.
I guess this is good news for linux.
What could happen if they somehow prove that microsoft backed SCO financially for all those lawsuits?
I’m also beting this actualy happened, but I guess nothing would happen if this comes out. Just “bad bad Microsoft” and life will go on. Microsoft already has a damaged image because of their practices, but general public, that only uses IE, Word and Outlook doesn’t give a damn. It’ll take at least 5 – 10 more years for most people in developed countries to realise computers are not something geeks use and start to follow the news and happenings in IT world cuz it’s pretty simple: you can’t use computers, you can’t get a job (unless farming if what yer after).
>>What could happen if they somehow prove that microsoft backed SCO financially for all those lawsuits?<<
They already know that msft backed scox (not SCO!!) financially. Msft has admitted it. Msft gave scox about $17M directly, and msft arranged the baystar financing.
There is nothing specifically illegal about a third party financing a lawsuit. Unless, you can prove that the third knowingly financed a scam lawsuit. Msft will never admit to having done that, and it would be very difficult to prove otherwise.
MS will definitely take the gloves off for IBM…
Rather laughable in principle, really. What exactly is MS going to be able to do after “Taking off the gloves”?
Ultimately, the facts will present themselves. IBM is in no danger of losing this suit…the question is how long it will take.
Maybe…
But the timing is bad for MS. As we speak, they are in trouble for anti-trust in SKorea, US, and the EU. SK is just getting started, the US and the EU are both reviewing their cases because they don’t believe MS has been compliant. And there is a new anti-trust action against MS in the US.
If IBM can make a connection between SCO’s actions and Microsoft and prove it in court, this could be especially damaging for MS. In fact, I could see the motions being made to break up MS, and/or fire/ban from MS Steve, Bill, and their toadies.
Even without the SCO connection, MS has clearly gone way over the line. With the SCO connection, I think it would behove everyone involved to seriously think about breaking MS to the point where that company can no longer be capable, let alone willing, to commit such economic crimes with such disregard as they have.
.. but no good for keeping your head safe from blows by gloved hands.
Here’s hoping you are right and MS has their gloves off and a finger in each nostril when they get hit. YH8MV
I hate to be a doomsayer, and as much as we’d all like to see microsoft give up the ghost and show the world what kind of lying weasels they are and just how far they go to get rid of competition I sincerely doubt that they’d release any information.
I’m far from a lawyer but I’m sure there’s a number of legal ways to beat around the bush and never release any info, in a courtroom or in the public.
The EC because it can be bowled over so easy with Anti-trust lawsuits it now is a tool for companies that can’t compete in an open market with Microsoft this is sad.
If Microsoft would play by the rules, Microsoft wouldn’t find itself in court so often.
Because they insist on straddling the line between legal and illegal behaviors, however, they often find themselves in hot water.
Competitors can’t “compete” if Microsoft cheats. That’s the whole purpose of these legal actions. If you aren’t aware of Microsoft’s past history in various markets, you might want to check out the MS Litigation page on http://www.groklaw.net.
> If Microsoft would play by the rules, Microsoft wouldn’t find itself in court so often.
HAHAHA – Google’s Motto: Don’t be Evil – yet it’s got buried under lawsuits.
Bottom ______ : If you are successful, you will have people coming after you for your money. Doesn’t matter if the Pope sits on your board.
Perhaps, but Microsoft has been more blatant than most in the way it has stepped on others.
IBM has already its turn with the Feds, and one of the end results was Microsoft’s original contract to provide an OS for the IBM PC (IBM was limited in its options due to Federal action).
Now it’s time to see action in another direction. Unlike the US DOJ, the EU isn’t going to be as easily paid off.
Competitors can’t “compete” if Microsoft cheats. That’s the whole purpose of these legal actions. If you aren’t aware of Microsoft’s past history in various markets, you might want to check out the MS Litigation page on http://www.groklaw.net.
I am not trying to defend Microsoft what i do see is based on the fact that the EU was successful with punishing Microsoft in the past. Microsofts competitors can use the EU as leverage to compete in Europe since America and Americans aren’t buying the Anti-trust FUD about Microsoft.
Pardon me? FUD? Do you even know what that abbreviation means? I guess you should read the title of your message and reflect it’s implications on yourself a bit for what you just wrote.
A company was found to be braking the rules of play established by EU and other countries, it has to PAY the price! And nobody should care which company it is. It’s like if you said that the story of a sentenced murderer is just FUD only because he/she is your favourite pop-star.
Quit the fanboyism already.
“convincing” DELL not to sell windows-less PC does not sound like “competing in an open market” to me. BTW, what has happened with DELL, has happened with Gateway, Compaq, HP, everyone of them got the word : sell Linux or Windows-less PC implies paying the full Windows tax, which in turn implies you cannot compete with the monopoly-abiding guy next door.
Buying small companies because they had “interesting” products, and shutting them off, does not sound like competing either. Maybe that’s just me.
Something’s totally broken in the system, and MS has been using that hole for far too long.
’nuff said.
“convincing” DELL not to sell windows-less PC does not sound like “competing in an open market” to me. BTW, what has happened with DELL, has happened with Gateway, Compaq, HP, everyone of them got the word : sell Linux or Windows-less PC implies paying the full Windows tax, which in turn implies you cannot compete with the monopoly-abiding guy next door.
Sorry friend, it’s just not that simple. Selling a PC without an OS doesn’t make good business sense. It’s analogous to selling a car without an engine just so 2% of the people that purchase cars can buy an engine separately and put what they want in their car. I doubt Microsoft had to “pressure” Dell on that topic much lessons in consumerism that Dell is quite versed in. Either way nothing substantial came of the anti-trust lawsuit against Microsoft here in the states why is that? What came of the EU anti-trust lawsuit? A version of windows without Media player installed by default and a massive fine to pad the EU’s bank account hilarious if it weren’t so depraved. Nothing more then the same old anti-American behavior from Europe.
I doubt Microsoft had to “pressure” Dell on that topic much lessons in consumerism that Dell is quite versed in. Either way nothing substantial came of the anti-trust lawsuit against Microsoft here in the states why is that? What came of the EU anti-trust lawsuit? A version of windows without Media player installed by default and a massive fine to pad the EU’s bank account hilarious if it weren’t so depraved. Nothing more then the same old anti-American behavior from Europe.
When Michael Dell was recently asked at a press conference why Dell so rapidly withdrew the limited line of Linux based desktop PC’s it launched a few years ago and whether MS pressure had anything to do with it, he whistled and circled his forefinger in the air and gave no answer – that just about sums it up.
In the anti-trust suit in the US, MS was found guilty. It is a convicted illegal monopolist. However the judge on the case was changed and the remedies against MS amounted to a slap on the wrist. I assume this has nothing to do with MS’s large political contributions.
The real fight it the EU still goes on over the question of computer interoperability and MS trying to lever a de facto desktop OS monopoly into the file and print server area. The EU commission is not working from a basis of anti-americanism but trying to ensure a level playing field which would benefit US companies as well as European ones that find themselves facing anti-competitive behaviour by MS.
Edited 2006-02-22 20:08
I find it saddening how MS has brainwashed the US into supporting them. Dell could sell PCs with Linux or Solaris but they and many other vendors do not so they can get cheaper versions of Windows. Furthermore MS has forced OEM retailers to only install their software in the past by threatening to remove the price cuts that they normally get.
This is an example of a typical monopolistic practice, and it is what killed Netscape. MS was found guilty of monopolistic practices in the Netscape case but managed to avoid most of the punishment. The WMP holds similar issues. EU’s goal was NOT to unbundle the WMP. It’s goal was to allow other players to reimplement MS’s proprietary protocols that they made popular through WMP by tying it into Windows. Microsoft has been know throughout its history on ‘improving’ protocols so that they deviate from standards and require their services to run. The EU isn’t anti-American, but anti-monopoly. It’s sad the Microsoft has brainwashed the public into thinking otherwise.
I’m convinced that people like you would say that putting Bill Gates in jail for murder would be anti-American because you shouldn’t attack people that personify the image of America…
Either way nothing substantial came of the anti-trust lawsuit against Microsoft here in the states why is that?
How many guesses do I get? Do wrong guesses count?
What came of the EU anti-trust lawsuit? A version of windows without Media player installed by default and a massive fine to pad the EU’s bank account hilarious if it weren’t so depraved. Nothing more then the same old anti-American behavior from Europe.
Clue: It was American companies that complained to the EC about the bundling of Media Player. So, the EC acting on that info is anti-American? You need a new babelfish. The one in your ear is either defective or is having a joke at your expense. Either way it’s not being straight with you about how life works here on Earth. Eventually it will blow your cover and you’ll have to start patrolling another planet sooner than you planned on it.
“It’s analogous to selling a car without an engine just so 2% of the people that purchase cars can buy an engine separately and put what they want in their car.”
It is more analogous to buying a car and having the dealer tell me where I can buy gasoline.
… now is a tool for companies that can’t compete in an open market with Microsoft …
The EC is just on a different continent, not a different planet. If you were going to give an example of somewhere where companies are having trouble competing with MS in an actuallly open market instead of a controlled one you would have to translate it into a language spoken here on Earth and then give references to which planet you were referring to.
By the way, which planet are you from?
Looks like tonight someone’s gonna be pulling an all-nighter at the paper shredder!
And they will probably wont be lonely because of the other guy tossing charis all around the office.
Thom wrote: Groklaw reports that IBM has subpoenad Microsoft
That is incorrect.
Groklaw reports: IBM has subpoenaed Microsoft! And Sun!
I’m curious, is Osnews biased? What communications have you had with Sun and why does your “news” seem to filter out anything bad about them? Sometimes it feels kinda like how Fox News reports on Republicans.
IBM subpoenaed Microsoft, Sun, Baystar, and HP, specifically to see what communicaions they had with Darl McBride since June 28, 2002.
But now that the heat is on, Sun is pretending they’re a Linux fanboy. And Osnews seems to have forgotten Sun’s role in this case.
This is interesting to me. Because, you see, I’m biased. I’m a Linux zealot. Linux is my religion, if you will. But I’m open and public with my bias. Some “news” organizations, however, are far less open about their bias. They are most definitely biased, but when you ask them about it all they say is they’re “fair and balanced”. I’m very interested to hear what they have to say and how they say it. What words do they choose and why.
Bias in reporting is interesting. That is why I registered this account to post this comment on this thread. Next time, don’t leave anything.
Sun is being called for their information on the Unix code mostly. There will be some questions about their involvement with SCO, but it’s doubful there is anything illegal there. It is their involvement in Unix that’s going to be the big point for both them and HP.
For HP, yes, but for Sun?
I love Sun’s. Among other things, IBM would like to have them testify about such matters as “restrictions or prohibitions on Sun employees having access to any UNIX product, including, but not limited to, its source code.” And they’d like to hear all about all communications between Sun and SCO since June 28, 2002 (isn’t that the date Darl joined SCO as CEO?), including any chats about any software licensing agreements and what Darl said to Scott McNealy in May of 2003 regarding SCO’s rights to the UNIX operating system and “discussions of business opportunities between SCO and Sun.” Oh, and involvement by Sun in the development of Linux.(emphasis mine)
Looks like those wonderful people at Groklaw and zealots like me are getting a kick out of IBM’s subpoena of Sun.
“Thom wrote: Groklaw reports that IBM has subpoenad Microsoft
That is incorrect.”
No it is not.
“Groklaw reports: IBM has subpoenaed Microsoft! And Sun!
I’m curious, is Osnews biased? What communications have you had with Sun and why does your “news” seem to filter out anything bad about them? Sometimes it feels kinda like how Fox News reports on Republicans.”
No, OSNews is not biased. We only have a limited amount of space available in teasers, and as such we have to make a selection of what gets in the teaser and what doesn’t. If someone judges a newsitem without reading the article… Then there’s nothing I can do for you.
And I suggest you not compare us to FoxNews again. I take that as a direct insult to me and the rest of the staff, and those insults will not go unnoticed. You have made an account just for attacking us– we’re not really open to that sort of nonsense.
Before spouting stupid accusations, please think for a second. We cannot write 45-line teasers just to please every zealot on the planet.
I take that as a direct insult to me and the rest of the staff
As it was intended, for you personally. I don’t know about the rest of your staff, but its mostly your articles that I notice this sort of subtle rhetorical bias. Not that that is a bad thing, its an excellent PR tactic that you should employ, if you have bias. A very powerful weapon in this war on words.
As it was intended, for you personally. I don’t know about the rest of your staff, but its mostly your articles that I notice this sort of subtle rhetorical bias. Not that that is a bad thing, its an excellent PR tactic that you should employ, if you have bias. A very powerful weapon in this war on words.
Ah, you refuse to address my arguments.
Oh, and I’ll add “pro-Sun” to my list of biases. And I’m not wondered anymore that “anti-Sun” is on that list too.
I don’t understand what this means:
And I’m not wondered anymore that “anti-Sun” is on that list too.
But what other arguments did you present than the statement that osnews is not biased. That seems more like an opinion, like mine, than an argument. Did I miss something?
You have to admit you omitted some facts from the Groklaw article to shift the focus of this thread to Microsoft.
On the other hand, its possible this was done for reasons other than pro-Sun bias. Such as pagehits, incompetence, anti-Microsoft bias, etc. I should always assume incompetence over malice.
At least Groklaw covers the whole story. Thanks for the link.
You have to admit you omitted some facts from the Groklaw article to shift the focus of this thread to Microsoft.
No. As I already explained, I needed to shorten the information because I had two stories to be squeezed into one teaser with limited space. And yes, OF COURSE do I then take the most interesting bits. What else do you expect?
You are purposefully ignoring my explanation here, sonny.
You are purposefully ignoring my explanation here, sonny.
I don’t ignore your words. I read them and draw my own conclusions. I think for myself and question authority, in this case OSN Staff. I certainly don’t trust you and believe everything you write. That would stupid.
Do you believe everything you see on Fox News? They are fair and balanced, y’know.
For example shorten the information is similar to omitted some facts, but sounds much more friendly. Note the subtle changes in tone and style.
You can always blame your audience for not reading the articles, but we both know most people get their news by reading headlines and the short summary, which is the perfect place to leave out those distracting facts.
It just seems odd to me, personally, to read a headline that states “Microsoft Subpoenad in SCO Case; More EC vs. Microsoft” linked to one that states “IBM Subpoenas Microsoft! Sun! Baystar and HP!” and goes on to rave about how excited they are about Sun’s involvement: “Hold on to your hats! IBM has subpoenaed Microsoft! And Sun!” They obviously care about more than just the Microsoft subpoena. Hence the exclamation point after Sun.
Did you misread the Groklaw article or something? Or did you just feel like bashing Microsoft today? Its cool if its a bash Microsoft day, I’m all for that, just wish I knew what day it was.
Did you even notice I linked to TWO articles in ONE teaser? Do you know I have LIMITED SPACE in BOTH the headline AS WELL AS the teaser? I ALWAYS cut out stuff when making teasers because there’s no damn room to re-publish each and every damn newsitem because there are black-helicopter people like yourself who see a hidden meaning behind everything.
You know what? I don’t give a rat’s ass about SCO. I don’t give a rat’s ass about Microsoft. I don’t give a rat’s ass about Sun. And I sure don’t give a rat’s ass about people who make accounts JUST to attack the site they’re making an account at.
Just because YOU have a pro-Linux bias, does NOT mean everyone has a bias, sonny. Please stick to your black helicopters and leave us alone.
Do you believe everything you see on Fox News? They are fair and balanced, y’know.
I’m Dutch; I’m luckily not confronted with the abonimation to everything that is journalism that is called Fox News.
It just seems odd to me, personally, to read a headline that states “Microsoft Subpoenad in SCO Case; More EC vs. Microsoft” linked to one that states “IBM Subpoenas Microsoft! Sun! Baystar and HP!”
Did you even CARE to read my explanation? I have LIMITED SPACE for headlines, and as I needed to put TWO headlines in ONE, I was FORCED to remove aspects. That’s called editing, sonny.
Other than that, I will never resort to cheesy headlines with multiple exclamation marks in them.
Hey, dude, I’m as enthusiastic as the next guy when it comes to Linux, but you’re not helping with that attitude.
I’ll go further: this is exactly how an agent provocateur would act. If you really like Linux, then stop hurting it by making us look like rabid fanatics.
My personal opinion? You’re an anti-Linux poster who poses as an aggressive Linux zealot to make us look bad…I have no way of proving this, but it’s certainly what this looks like.
I’m curious, is Osnews biased? What communications have you had with Sun and why does your “news” seem to filter out anything bad about them? Sometimes it feels kinda like how Fox News reports on Republicans.
OSnews is worse than Fox News, it’s more like Al Jazeera.
I’m curious, is Osnews biased? What communications have you had with Sun and why does your “news” seem to filter out anything bad about them? Sometimes it feels kinda like how Fox News reports on Republicans.
OSnews is worse than Fox News, it’s more like Al Jazeera.
OSnews is worse than Fox News, it’s more like Al Jazeera.
I can assure you Al Jazeera is a far more reliable and less opiniated source that Fox news. Al Jazeera was founded by Arab journialists who had worked for the BBC and it upholds the fair an unbiased reporting that the BBC was renown for before Bliar pressured it into submission. I would take a look at the Al Jazeera website and then judge the quality of its reporting.
The truth of this is that it really means nothing to Microsoft, nor does it mean anything to Sun, Baystar and HP, the other companies on the paperwork. Who is does mean something to is SCO. IBM is not “going” after all of these other companies. They are simply using them to demonstrate how full of crap SCO is, and that the “reality” SCO keeps trying to weave for the courts is indeed pure fantisy.
Sure the Mirosoft stuff will be interesting, and might even get them in some issues with the Anti Trust fellas, but the whole “Microsoft” part of this case is most likely the least telling part of the entire lawsuit.
The real good stuff will about from the Sun and HP. IBM is getting ready to pull the top off of the whole idea that Unix code is some sort of state secret. Once they can demonstrate that just about everybody and there brother has had a look at true Unix code (whether they were supposed to or not) their entire case is gone. Read the article, look at what they are asking Sun and HP for.
Yeah, the Microsoft and Baystar stuff should be interesting and will certainly keep it all in the news, but the big news in this is HP and Sun IMHO.
It’ll solve all your problems. It’s so much better than Windows. OpenOffice is the best. Why are these losers suing Microsoft again?
For me this isn’t about the quality of the software.
Its about justice. Its about me telling businesses like Microsoft, Sun and SCO that illegal and irresponsible actions will not be tollerated. The only way I know how to tell them this is to recommend alternatives to anyone considering a purchase and boycotting until they lose their market dominance. And propogandizing against them, if necessary. The pen is mighter than the sword, at least as long as we have free speech, then I’ll use the sword.
It has never been about the best product. I’ve been a Linux zealot for 8 years now because of the Law. Copyright law creates temporary monopolies, but when dealing with computer technology these monopolies might as well be permenant. When will copyright give us the source code to Windows 3.0? Does anyone still use Windows 3.0?
But recently these businesses have been very seriously abusing their power. Should I give up and just let them be the standard? Is that what I spent 10 years in computer science for? To go learn visual .NET and reboot my computer whenever it “breaks”?
I would work for free for Sun or Microsoft, if they weren’t evil. If they could only share and cooperate and be part of a team, or part of a community. But they won’t until they have no other choice, then they’ll be your best friend if you’ll play with them, because no one else will. They’re nothing but children.
I fight because I care. I code because I love. I use Linux because it is good, its only the license that keeps it good.
For me this isn’t about the quality of the software.
Its about justice.
For me it’s about quality of software and justice, that’s why I don’t use any software from GNU.
I would work for free for Sun or Microsoft, if they weren’t evil.
I could also work for GNU for free if they weren’t evil.
Thom talks about needing to keep the teaser short, yet he took up precious space with, “This is your daily IT Lawsuit News Feeder…That was your daily IT Lawsuit News Feeder, end transmission.” That is precious space that could have been used for facts relevant to the articles linked to. What’s with this wastefulness, Thom?
It doesn’t help that Thom is an arrogant jerk, either. I wish we could mod down the staff.
In the anti-trust suit in the US, MS was found guilty. It is a convicted illegal monopolist. However the judge on the case was changed and the remedies against MS amounted to a slap on the wrist. I assume this has nothing to do with MS’s large political contributions.
The real fight it the EU still goes on over the question of computer interoperability and MS trying to lever a de facto desktop OS monopoly into the file and print server area. The EU commission is not working from a basis of anti-americanism but trying to ensure a level playing field which would benefit US companies as well as European ones that find themselves facing anti-competitive behaviour by MS.
I’m convinced that people like you would say that putting Bill Gates in jail for murder would be anti-American because you shouldn’t attack people that personify the image of America…
I just don’t swallow everything I hear from the Anti-Corporation, Anti-Free market leftists where the majority of the Microsoft hate rhetoric and propaganda has its roots. I have no disillusion that Microsoft doesn’t play fair sometimes, but the fact is the human animal predictably hates the top dog. Microsoft’s massive success generates a lot of antipathy in the world not unlike America’s cultural and economical success and subsequent hate by areas of the world. Don’t believe me? Take a look at the posts on this thread all you have to say is Microsoft sucks and your comments are voted up. Express a valid differing opinion and get voted down…simpletons! Try having an original thought from time to time.
Smartpatrol, if you’re really a captitalist and free-market adherent, then you should be the one most worried by Microsoft’s monopoly. Capitalism is based on competition and a level-playing field, however monopolies are a proof that the “pure” capitalist model is unsustainable (because it tends to concentrate wealth in a few hands, therefore destroying the initial “level playing field” and stifling competition).
But then again, you probably believe that the U.S. has a capitalist economy, when it really is a mixed economy, with some industries in which the government intervenes a lot (agriculture through direct subsidies; hi-tech, IT and aerospace through the Pentagon system; etc.)
But hey, at least Dubya has no problem selling the nation’s ports to the UAE. Good thing that mosque blew up just at the right time, eh?
But hey, at least Dubya has no problem selling the nation’s ports to the UAE. Good thing that mosque blew up just at the right time, eh?
There are those with clues and those without you fall into the later description.
Sure. Don’t actually try to formulate a response – just use insults, it’s much more convenient, isn’t it?
Sure. Don’t actually try to formulate a response – just use insults, it’s much more convenient, isn’t it?
Your inane and might I say ignorant statement didn’t deserve a educated response. You can’t teach a dog mathematics no matter how hard you try.
My statement was neither inane or ignorant. If it had been, you would have been able to formulate a counter-argument. Instead, you cowardly ran away, shouting insults. Very impressive.
Meanwhile, enjoy being modded down for abusive language.