If I told you that my entire computer screen just got taken over by a new app that I’d never installed or asked for — it just magically appeared on my desktop, my taskbar, and preempted my next website launch — you’d probably tell me to run a virus scanner and stay away from shady websites, no?
But the insanely intrusive app I’m talking about isn’t a piece of ransomware. It’s Microsoft’s new Chromium Edge browser, which the company is now force-feeding users via an automatic update to Windows.
People should run whatever the hell they damn well please, but the last few years it has become increasingly clear that Windows is deteriorating fast. Oddly enough, it’s not the operating system itself that’s deteriorating – in fact, Windows is probably in a better technical state than it’s ever been – but the policies and anti-user ‘features’ draped around it.
If you read OSNews, you are most likely technically inclined. People who read OSNews don’t need Windows, and shouldn’t be running it. It’s actively hostile towards its users, and you deserve better.
I don’t get this post… Windows has always had a browser and Legacy Edge is not supported anymore so it is being updated via WINDOWS UPDATES. LOL This was previously announced so not sure why anyone would be surprised. As always, if not interested in Microsoft’s browser don’t use it.
The new Microsoft Edge is maybe the best overall browser right now. It’s fast, has a decent UI now, and is fairly complete product already. This is from a guy who had avoided MS browsers for almost two decades. As far as I am concerned, Chrome is now the new IE and uninstalled it.
“Preferred Desktop OS: Windows 10”
LOL.
You’re on the wrong website. I think you’re looking for msn.com.
What does this website have to do with the scores of people who _do_ prefer Windows 10 for their desktop(s)?
WTF?
I don’t have any problem with the update per se, but the first login after the edge update (or mid-session in some cases?) will run a full-screen, modal, interactive wizard where edge tries to become default browser and to import everything from every other browser.
That’s ok if you installed New Edge interactively, but for an automatic update that’s a big no-no.
That’s a defensible point. I understand why the update to new edge was included among the necessary updates. The old one is unsupported, and is probably a source of vulnerability for the platform. And yes, this was announced well in advance. And I can understand how marketing department made the update a bit pushy, trying its chance to draw some users away from chrome. I don’t agree with that attitude, but I can understand how it happened.
The complaints, however, are actually about something else, even though the present case arose with specific reference to edge.
The people are complaining about how updates are forced on windows. No practical means to opt-out; no realistic means to set the schedule of updates. They are being literally shoved down our throats.
Sure, Microsoft does not want its platform to be associated with vulnerability stories about how Russians can hack windows machines much more easily. And security updates are the way to go to prevent that. But changing a person’s computer without his EXPLICIT CONSENT EACH AND EVERY TIME is just asking for complaints and pieces like this article.
I understand how security updates may be perceived necessary in the vast-majority of environments. I understand how they MUST be installed in most settings and environments. But make the user press a button explicitly labelled “Yeah, go on with the update NOW” if you don’t want fuck-ups like this one. Make the desktop background red until the user presses that button. Remind him every day to press the button. Make the start menu (or whatever it is called today) open with a warning every time. But DO NOT FUCKING APPLY UPDATES WITHOUT ME GRANTING EXPLICIT CONSENT. And do not make me lose any documents or work for the sake of a fucking vulnerability update when I am behind a blank NAT table on two successive routers, not to mention a psycho of a firewall, without any wireless devices on the fucking machine.
If you choose to take that route, more of these stories will come, and more and more people will hate windows.
It’s fine if you prefer chromium edge to chrome. There are valid arguments about which company is tracking you or slight tweaks in each. However, you’re not abandoning the modern IE that is chromium. You’re just changing flavors of it. Google still controls the web whether you use Microsoft, Google, Opera or Brave. It’s all chromium. it’s all google.
I agree and Firefox is my primary browser as it has been for a long time.
Also, when it comes down to it: 1| You can uninstall it. 2| unless you’ve baked your own installation media, it’s far easier to download another browser on a fresh install if there’s one installed already.
Well said. As mentioned, many advanced users find their desktop computing needs served better by an alternative OS, so they’re not beholden to the whims of Windows. But what kills me about the OS that 90% of users run being so incredibly hostile and frustrating is that unenlightened u users automatically associate laptops and desktops with unreliability and headaches. Now I am personally seeing a mass exodus of users away from Windows, but unfortunately not to alternative desktop operating systems but rather to mobile devices, which are even more limiting than Windows. I am genuinely concerned that the entire paradigm of traditional mouse and keyboard computing (i.e. productive computing) will begin to fade away as hardware and software makers focus on the mobile devices that people insist on using for an increasingly large number of tasks that are entirely inappropriate for that form factor. We’ve already seen Microsoft ruin their UI to pander to touch UI users, and much Linux software has followed suit. On the hardware scene, most manufacturers have focused on making their laptops thin and light, this making them fragile and impossible to work on, with awful keyboards and trackpads to boot. I honestly think that this whole process was set in motion by the disastrous design and quality deficiencies of Windows.
I was pleasantly surprised by how smoothly the rollout went, but I won’t assume my experience is universal!
So far I’ve found the new Edge to be a significant performance and reliability improvement over earlier editions and/or IE. The update has basically fixed a whole bunch of problems for me and allowed me to standardise on Edge for web based Apps.
I don’t think anyone is calling the new Edge itself “bad”; in fact from what I’ve seen of it, it’s pretty damn great for a Microsoft software project. It’s strictly the method in which it was forced on everyone that is being lamented here. It would be the same if it were any other part of the OS, like OneDrive or Paint3D. Imagine you open up Paint.net or Krita on Windows only to have the latest Paint3D update create a modal fullscreen advertisement for itself that you had to acknowledge before being allowed to do literally anything with your computer, then set itself as the default image editor even though you had manually chosen a third party app.
That’s the kind of bullshit being called out here.
I’m puzzled. How exactly is this different from how Apple “shoves Safari down our throats”? Both Apple and Microsoft have always pushed their platform native browser, and people who prefer to use alternatives have always been required to install them and reconfigure the default platform behavior.
The irony here is that you write “People who read OSNews don’t need Windows, and shouldn’t be running it.” But you wouldn’t have encountered the new Edge if you hadn’t been running Windows, would you? Why haven’t you taken your own advice and switched to Mint?
(I speak as a developer with 50 years of experience who ran SunOS/Solaris from 1985 to 1997 and MacOS from 1997 to 2018, and has now switched over to Windows because WSL2 is the most secure way to run Linux apps and Edge Chrome is the best browser. I highly recommend minikube in WSL2.)
@clueweaver
I feel it’s just a throw away line.
Developers develop and test on the platform of their majority end users, it’s completely wrong to assume otherwise. I know plenty who use Linux, MacOS, but they always test on Windows because that is where 90% of the market sits. I realise some may prefer to remain different or be seen as niche, but some of them are making excuse dressed up in a fashion statement!
I assume you’re talking about browser-based apps, right? Of course: we test our apps in all browsers on all major platforms, which is simply a cost of doing business. (It’s a great incentive for the devs to get the test automation right!) But Thom’s “throwaway line” deserves to be called out. That “actively hostile” is just silly.
Because Edge comes with a separate privacy policy not present when you initially bought the OS.
BTW, I am sorry Thom, but Linux has a long way to go. GPU support in Linux is still meh, it still relies mainly on (perpetually outdated) “repos” to get third-party applications, native application support is lacking, and there are lots of little annoyances in multi-screen support and font scaling. And some people with gaming or virtual-reality or stereoscopic desktops/laptops are pretty much locked into Windows, to the point Windows is complementary goods to their PC (aka, they can’t use their PC for the purpose it was built without Windows).
Aphorisms like “People who read OSNews don’t need Windows, and shouldn’t be running it” are counterproductive.
Nvidia is horrible, but Intel and AMD GPU support is rather good.
Compile it yourself or use something like Arch?
Windows and MacOS are equivalent to RHEL, Debian, or Ubuntu LTS. They are all point in time operating systems. Windows and MacOS come with lots of outdated stuff in the base OS, and people get around it by bundling all of the required libraries with the software.
It’s gotten better thanks to Electron apps. (Yes, I realize what I just wrote.)
This affects all of the OSes. Companies don’t builds native applications anymore; they build web apps.
I might have very low standards because both seems to work fine for me and my Intel GPUs.
That’s a valid critique. There isn’t any real reason for VR stuff to exist in Linux. There isn’t any research going on, and no one buying Linux machines cares. The desktop modders which drove the early innovation, like wobbly windows, have largely left or aged out.
Heh, don’t wail on my wobbly window cubiness.
No better way to take down “the man” then to “flip the cube” every-time he approaches your desk. It’s better at making bastards paranoid than meth! A little bit of scripting and you can have the apps on the off-screen face closed so when you flip back they are gone!
Apologies to people stuck coding on the command line!
“Compile it yourself or use something like Arch?”
Ewww! No!
“Nvidia is horrible, but Intel and AMD GPU support is rather good.”…define “good”, because I have an AMD netbook with an APU and good fricking luck to get ANY Linux version to take either the FOSS or proprietary driver which means its locked at a lower resolution than native (which looks like trash) and without the GPU hardware acceleration everything has ghosting like Win98 on a 386, its terrible.
Say what you want about Win 10 but even though the last driver AMD put out was for Win 8 I installed Win 10 in a dual boot and it recognized the APU and installed a working driver OOTB, sure its slower to boot than Linux as Windows and Bloat goes together like PB&J once its fully loaded its fine and at least it runs native res and doesn’t jerk and freeze if I run a video on the thing.
The issue with AMD GPU support is they tend to leave old chipsets out in the dust. nVidia does as well, but I think the open source driver supports it for longer as does their blob. Windows is only barely better in this regard.
I don’t get the comment about VR, it works fine in Linux, I have an Index and quite a few games work without issue. nVidia does need to add in the async stuff.
“It’s actively hostile towards its users, and you deserve better.” – well, perhaps, the problem being that Mac OS is even more hostile, and Linux, while not being actively hostile, is extremely passively hostile, by means of its baroque user experience.
What does “baroque” even mean? Desktop Linux is hostile because it sucks as a platform for running apps (see my previous comment here), and that’s what an OS is all about.
This was the good thing about iPad, it showed everyone that it’s all about the apps and it has always been about the apps (not that it prevented hilarious app-less failures like the Blackberry Playbook and Windows RT, because some companies don’t want to learn). This was at a time when Windows was going through a period of introversion (singularity anyone?) and an ever expanding OS flab in general (Microsoft showed new versions of OSes, and half of the screenshots were from the Control Panel) and Desktop Linux was always good ol’ Desktop Linux. After the iPad, everyone started talking about the apps again and how their OS (supposedly) helps people run apps while staying as much out of the way as possible. With the exception of Desktop Linux, which either demands from the user to go with a rolling release distro or going through perpetually outdated repos.
Yeah. Computing is a commodity now.
Desktop linux will just be a niche for developers or technical/academic users.
But at the end of the day 90%+ of the market use computing devices to DO specific things with them.
Linux is still far from ready for most of us Thom. Case in point: Ubuntu snap support occasionally breaks itself during updates, thus leading to the inability to run any snap package and a completely broken desktop operating system install. No apparent detection of the issue, redundancy, or rollback when such a thing would happen. If something like that were to happen on Windows update, it would be rolled back immediately and considered a failed update. Microsoft will get away with this stuff because there really isn’t any valid competition to Windows, and despite tons of Linux bandwagon people saying desktop Linux is “good enough,” it really isn’t because stuff like the previously mentioned snap issue are common and far worse than when Microsoft occasionally breaks something.
You really should try something like Pop!_OS or Linux Mint if you need Ubuntu but (like most of us) are put off by the forced, buggy snaps. Pop specifically is nearly flawless, and has a hardware company behind it that is committed to making it the best desktop Linux out there.
With that said, I don’t use Pop as my main OS, I prefer something lighter (right now and for the foreseeable future I use Void Linux and Slackware on all my systems), but it absolutely has blown me away with how good a desktop Linux distro can be.
In 2-5 years this advice will be switched out with “you should try random Linux distro X” instead. Spending 2-3hours downloading, installing, and then re-setting up an entire PC isn’t worth my time or most people’s time. It’s simply not valid advice that only adds to the problems of desktop Linux.
Ok, and 2-3 years ago I was actually recommending Windows 10 to people as safe to upgrade from 7 and 8, because at that time it performed better than those versions, with nearly no “gotchas” like the forced Edge browser we’re all discussing. Fast forward to now, and I actively avoid Windows 10. How is that any different from your assumption that another Linux distro will take the crown from Pop as the most commercial-like and user friendly Linux?
There’s no such thing as “the perfect operating system”, and there never will be, because no two people have the exact same needs. Windows is broken, Linux is broken, the BSDs are broken, Haiku is broken, macOS is broken; just all broken in different ways. Don’t let a quest for perfection make you believe there is nothing good out there.
Haiku isn’t broken, it’s just still in Beta 🙂
It’s pretty much just Linux that’s breaking right now. Windows, Mac, and now Samsung Android are getting annoying with ads, but that’s not “broken”. Let me quote an Ubuntu bug 1756793 for a moment: “That said, as usual regression tests catch regressions. They don’t catch new and creative ways in which the system can break. So the true answer is that nothing can prevent this from happening again, unfortunately. We can just continue to work on making the risks ever smaller.” These are not words of a production ready operating system. People that “break windows” or “mac” probably lack the basic computer literacy to stop themselves from willing installing malware anyway. Babying them with Linux isn’t really going to help them that much.
dark2,
I’d be nice if you could link the sources you are referring too…
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/snapd/+bug/1756793
I find it funny they blame systemd misbehavior.
It’s true linux updates can break, however Morgan is right that windows isn’t error-proof either. We shouldn’t suggest that it is lest we become guilty of selective memories.
I was supporting enterprise software when multiple rounds of data-deleting bugs were in microsoft’s update pipeline. We reported some of these bugs to microsoft via enterprise support, but they neglected to take them seriously or delay the updates until widespread reports of data deletion were being reported by the media.
https://www.howtogeek.com/658194/windows-10s-new-update-is-deleting-peoples-files-again/
I know…bugs happen, but what was most alarming (to me) is that microsoft neglected to fix/pull their known-buggy update even though their support staff knew about these issues. Honestly microsoft’s actions aren’t becoming for a “production ready operating system” either. That was completely irresponsible and preventable.
Anyways, I only apply updates to production systems when I’m prepared to handle failures because they can & do happen.
Since when was Linux == Ubuntu?? …or Pop.
My argument is that’s the overall quality assurance of desktop Linux, Ubuntu and Snap simply happens to be the biggest screw up right now.
Since Ubuntu became the only Desktop Linux distribution kinda sorta supported by a major OEM (Dell), also since Canonical decided to dedicate the majority of their corporate resources in marketing campaigns.
This is another problem with open source: Companies spending most of their money in marketing campaigns can swoop in and claim all credit while companies that actually contribute stuff (RedHat) remain relatively unknown. The only reason Android avoided that fate was because the Play Store and Play Services were closed source.
Snap is terrible. Stay the heck away from it at all costs. Yes I’m on ubuntu still, but trying to find a good landing spot to get off. Maybe fedora again? Really want to try one of their exiramental os’s, but if the reason why I’m leaving ubuntu is lack of stability… I might just be trading one issue for another.
I use AmigaOS and MacOSX.
I would hope an amiga user had better tate than using osx. Unless it is say 10.6 at most.
Given the “G5” in their username, I’m willing to bet they are comfortably cruising along in 10.5. 🙂
I use amigaOS and Haiku.
This latest intrusion by Microsoft, combined with Linux kernel 5.7 which fixed all remaining issues with my RX 5600XT GPU, has allowed me to remove Windows from my gaming computer and mostly from my digital life. I still have to use and admin Windows at work, but it no longer has a place on my own hardware. With this and the death of Windows Phone a few years back, Microsoft simply has nothing I want anymore.
Funny discussion, I run Linux (desktop) on 3 systems and on 7 Internetserver, Windows on 2 Systems (desktops) .
So I guess I belong here.
We see here the discussion that has been going on for years, Linux cannot do this or that, which is basically untrue, Windows has lots of Problems too.
You choose the OS that together with your business Software creates a stable working environment.
When using webapps I prefer Linux.
Edge however is software one does not need, there is the original called chrome.
I did cut of the installation(s), it is very user unfriendly blocking the system to force your software to be installed even when the customer does not want that.
Copying settings from other browsers without consent is however utterly wrong and an absolute no go.
Old habits seem not to die at MS.
Regards,
Jan
Linux is software one does not need. There is the original called Unix…see how ridiculous this statement is? Original doesn’t mean better it means first. So according to you everyone should stay with their original/first partner? Nobody gets to breakup and have a partner that suits them better? New Edge might simply be better for people than Chrome at the moment. And both are free and run just fine on your machine at the same time. Choice is good!
No, old opinions nerver seem to die about Microsoft. Nobody ever even implied that Edge copies settings from other browsers without consent. Just like every other browser it nicely asks during first run if this is what you want but it never does it without conscent
A whole lot of people complaining her about this “forced upgrade”, but if you didn’t like old Edge you could have removed it. And if you had removed it you wouldn’t have been offered this upgrade. It is really that simple people. Remove old Edge, don’t get offered newer Edge
All these complaints about Windohs are tantamount to “Doctor, it hurts when I do this!” and a reminder that Andreesen was so right: “There are those who tell computers what to do and those whom computers tell what to do.”
If you choose to be among the latter–and it is a choice–enjoy your Microsoft-sponsored (in this case) DRE.
Never noticed it as I installed it ages ago as soon as I could.
No I do not use it much. It’s the back up browser form when firefox addons cause issues that are not resolvable by turning them off. Also like for most people, an ability to play 4k netflix. (amazon make me use a fire tv into my monitor for that!). (Yes there are hacks I am sure, no thanks).
It is my third choice browser. We all need multiple browsers as it makes life easier? My second chopice is pale moon. No chrome is not even installed, not that I have anything against it. I am in the whole google ecosystem. I just see no need currently! (It is my first choice for others!).
I use New Edge for work and Chrome for personal use. They have different favorites, saved passwords etc and both work just fine. I even use multiple “profiles” within both browsers when I work for different customers or for my different persona (father/hobbies)
I could probably get by just fine with everything shoved into 1 browser…but why would I? The above setup works great and makes it much easier to do everything I want to do the way I want to do it
I think the original article was an overreaction, once it is something Microsoft never really stopped doing (shoving this or that update or software or change down its users throat). That said, I guess it is a very annoying and abusive thing for a company to do in an OS you paid for, but we’re seeing this happen for some time now, with bloatware and privacy invasion they did since the early days of Windows 10.
About the alternative browser I use in spite of the mainstream Chrome or Edge, I’ve been trying Brave Browser on Windows, Linux and Android for some time now and I have nothing to complain about (it is fast, stable, easy to use, privacy driven and compatible with the vast majority of the sites I visit).
I don’t care that they updated theird old browser (never used it anyway), but what annoyed me was that when I started my PC it started that uncloseable “tour of the new Edge”. I didn’t even check if there was a way out – I just opened Task Manager and killed it. Then I deleted all the icons it splattered everywhere. Also, my sister called me asking if it was something dangerous or if she had to pay something (non-techies tend to accidentally subscribe to things…)
For this reason I an never gonna use it (I will probably have to for work, but you know what I mean). I don’t care if it is the best browser ever. I hate being pushed.
“when I started my PC it started that uncloseable “tour of the new Edge”. I didn’t even check if there was a way out”
…this is how you detect a troll.
* It was uncloseable but he didn’t check if there was a way out…like the X at the right top or Alt+F4
* It started when you started your pc…but New Edge doesn’t require a restart
* Edge also doesn’t have any autostart feature…so what you meant was that you saw a new Edge icon (one of those that were splattered everywhere) and clicked on it
* For this reason I an never gonna use it (I will probably have to for work, but you know what I mean). I don’t care if it is the best browser ever. I hate being pushed……aaaah, you are one of those people that don’t care if safety belts are good for you, you are never going to wear them becasue you hate being pushed
My dear avgalen, be careful of who you call troll.
– “It was uncloseable but he didn’t check if there was a way out…like the X at the right top or Alt+F4”
No. The X was grayed out and Alt-F4 didn’t work. They REALLY pushed this thing down your throath.
– “It started when you started your pc…but New Edge doesn’t require a restart”
No. I shutdown the PC, Windows said it was installing some updates, as it often does, and when I turned it on the next I was welcomed with it. Again, not something new for some Windows update Microsoft REALLY wants you to notice.
– “Edge also doesn’t have any autostart feature…so what you meant was that you saw a new Edge icon (one of those that were splattered everywhere) and clicked on it”
No. Apps often put their icons everywhere when they update. I’m used to throw them in the trash as soon as I see them. Years ago I even wrote a utility that deleted certain icons automatically at startup, but I was too laszy to keep it updated.
– “you are one of those people that don’t care if safety belts are good for you, you are never going to wear them becasue you hate being pushed”
No. I know the difference between rules, useful stuff, and annoying commercial tacticts.
How extremely arrogant and elitist. I have tried (and keep trying) many OS’s but for over half of the things (monstly creation) I do I far prefer Windows. Android is the only other OS that I use a lot (mostly for consumption) and then there are a few things that I really prefer Linux for, like Lego MindStorms and some Python development (now mostly in WSL2 unless I want a GUI)
« If you read OSNews, you are most likely technically inclined. People who read OSNews don’t need Windows, and shouldn’t be running it. It’s actively hostile towards its users, and you deserve better. »
Well, maybe because OSNews is becoming more and more yet another Linux blog and less and less a website covering technical information about operating systems.
My work computer runs Xubuntu LTS but my personal one runs Windows 10.
I’m a musician. Audio on Linux is such a sad joke that many developers prefer to offer freeware audio plugins for Windows and macOS that even poke the Linux audio ecosystem with a stick.
I used to be a happy OS X user but reliability issues with Apple hardware made me want to invest in an old fashioned easily serviceable PC tower.
I’ve been using Windows 10 since the beginning and it keeps getting better. So many improvements have been offered without the need to pay for an update….
Just because you’re anal about the way MS try to promote Edge doesn’t mean that Win10 is still the best tool for the job in my use case.
“People who read OSNews don’t need Windows, and shouldn’t be running it”
Okay, when you start telling me what I shouldn’t be running, you’ve reached a new low.
Full page ads yesterday, ham-fisted clickbait today,
News flash: Every OS Sucks.
And this is different from Google hijacking PCs with Chrome installs…how exactly? Because you have NO IDEA how many times I’ve had to tell a customer to get a piece of freeware, be it CCleaner or Klite or Irfanview…only to them have to walk them through removing a Chrome infection because hidden on page 3 of the EULA at the very bottom (with a sign on the door saying “beware of the leopard”) it has a hidden clause letting Google hijack your browser and home page. BTW Google is currently under antitrust investigation by the EU for forced bundling…gee doesn’t that sound familiar?
As for this just FYI for those that did not know MSFT is abandoning their old Trident based Edge for Chromium based Edge and all you are seeing is what happens when you download the new Edge from the website, someone forgot to change the standard dialogs when it was added to WU but considering the old Edge is no longer getting security patches? Yeah kinda needed to replace that, and with so many first and third party programs using web based help if anything breaks you really should have a second browser just in case the first shits the bed.
Frankly the only thing I would have done differently is the opening pop up would have been a screen showing a comparison between Edge, Chrome, and Firefox and a button at the bottom that would have “Try Edge or stick with current default” but with Edge and Chrome both being Chromium its really a tomato tomatoe thing, one sends all the data to Google, one to MSFT but its the SSDD.
You should send them to ninite.com to get their freeware, all three of the ones you mentioned are there. Any spyware/malware/shovelware is stripped out and they can use the Ninite installer to keep their software updated.
Windows 10 has always had an Edge browser. Nothing has changed, they just upgraded it.
“People who read OSNews don’t need Windows, and shouldn’t be running it.”
I run the fuck I want, thank you very much.
In fact, I regularly use Linux Mint, Windows 10 and macOS, and Windows is my favourite OS right now.