“There are a number of things preventing Windows users from moving en masse to Linux. While the naming of applications is probably not a make-or-break issue when considering a new operating system, it is a legitimate consideration. This is the case because many of the names chosen for Linux programs are downright confusing, and the last thing desktop Linux needs right now is to make the transition from Windows or the acquisition of new users any harder than it has to be.”
Linux is a free environment. No one is looking over your shoulder, nudging you into some sort of naming convention for your software, and this is as it should be.
I think what you want to say is that Gnome or KDE applications should follow some kind of naming standard. (Even if this standard is simply choosing your application name with care for the end user!) They have the power to say “if you want to be closely affiliated with our system, then you must follow our rules”, and so from a practical point of view, this would be the only course that makes sense anyway.
Advocacy will never foster adoption of linux on the desktop. Appealing to the myriad linux developers to try to heed the mom-n-pop end user would be like herding cats. In the end, it’s really up to the distributions, and from there up to the desktop environments, to create consistent workspaces for users.
KI Kpersonally Kdon’t Ksee Kanything Kwrong Kwith Kapp Knaming Kconventions. KThey Kprovide Ka Ksense Kof Kcohesiveness Kwith Kthe Kdesktop Kenvironment.
WinMore Winpeople Winshould Winuse Winthem.
— I kid, I kid.
I realize that is not the main issue here but it does get ripped on a lot. Ironically the K ones are usually the most descriptive.
Edited 2005-12-27 16:07
Actually it is the issue. Linux on the desktop will succeed, mostly because the details have been addressed. That’s one of the reasons people like Apple because they address not only the needs, but the little details that move an experience from “yeah, so what?”, to ” a joy to encounter”.
Agreed… for example:
Kmail vs. Outlook Express
Kontact vs. Outlook
Kaddressbook vs. ?
Kolourpaint vs. Paint (no difference, really)
kbattleship
kbackgammon
kcalc
kcolorchooser
The list goes on…
There’s also plenty of Gnome examples. Gcal, Gnumeric, Gaim, Xchat (obviously chat related), etc. The choice of distro dosn’t effect the good/bad name choices of programmers and application designers. Chuck this article into the “stupid Linux analysis” bin.
Good point, although I wouldn’t necessarly throw gaim into the mix, since gaim can easily be pronounced as one word, as opposed to “k-colorchooser” or “x-chat”.
Discoverability is THE make-or-break issue with Linux. The article has some interesting examples, like Windows Media Player vs Xine.
Having application type listed in the start menu in parentheses behind the app name has been a huuuuuge improvement over the older KDE menu, where you had to wonder from which planet ‘this operating system’ came from.
Or Winamp vs. Beep Media Player. Also users could just surf over to freshmet.net or there distros package manager to search for applications.
which is media player. next…
Browser: ELinks/0.10.6 (textmode; Linux 2.6.14-ARCH i686; 128×48-2)
which is media player. next…
Actually he didn’t.
If you follow the GNOME HIG there’s no problem:
http://developer.gnome.org/projects/gup/hig/2.0/desktop-integration…
Someone mentioned Apple; it’s funny, because I often see people asking how to browse the web when they sit in front of a Mac at work (they don’t know Safari is the web browser). If Apple followed the GNOME guidelines this wouldn’t be a problem for their users.
People tend to knock on Gnome because they spend too much time tailoring to the “idiots”. However, their HIG is a wonderful set of guidelines.
Sure, GNOME itself might not be fully compliant with them, but it is certainly moving closer towards compliance every release.
“There are a number of things preventing Windows users from moving en masse to Linux.”
Yes, and one of them is that Windows users are already productive in their Windows environment. The old adage “if it ain’t broke, why fix it?” applies here more than anywhere else. Say, for example, I’m a happy Windows user. Why should I go through the trouble of learning an unfamiliar OS based on an entirely different philosophy, if I’m already productive in my current OS? That just doesn’t make sense. If I discover that there is a task I really need to perform, and its impossibe to use my Windows OS for that, I might consider switching. Even then, I probably will keep my Windows box, and use Linux only for the task I cannot perform in Windows.
Really, the “what keeps people from switching en masse to Linux?” crowd needs to get a clue. It has nothing to do with how complicated the installation is, or the steep learning curve, or naming conventions. It’s simply the lack of motivation.
“This is the case because many of the names chosen for Linux programs are downright confusing, and the last thing desktop Linux needs right now is to make the transition from Windows or the acquisition of new users any harder than it has to be.”
translation: Yay! Let’s dumb Linux down, maybe then people will switch!
Sorry, ya bunch of desktop Linux-obsessed lunatics, they won’t. You can make Linux just about as Windows-like as you possibly can, and people still won’t switch.
I agree for the most part except for all the name-calling. There is only one thing that will truly and efficiently drive Linux uptake for non-techies, increase the use of Linux in schools. Nowadays, most people have their first real experience with computing on a windows box, they memorize the applications and actions that they use often and are lost when they have to do something new. Anyone who does family tech support can attest to this. If the early experiences they have with educational software, word processors, email, and browsing are on Linux, they will prefer it to something alien like Windows or OS X.
We should be taking projects like Edubuntu very seriously. Learn from what the cigarette and fast food corporations already know: The earlier you enforce brand recognition and loyalty, the better. It is very difficult to get someone to change their habits when they are already set in their ways.
You know, I really don’t think Linux should become comparable to the cigarette companies.
I didn’t mean it in that sense. It is a successful strategy, that was just the most visible example I could come up with.
I generally agree with “if it ain’t broke, dont’ fix it.” But — it *is* broke. Now, before you tell me that “broke” is a matter of opinion, I want to remind you that “functionally fulfilling users’ needs” is not enough to be “not broke”.
My car gets me everywhere I want to go, completely fulfilling my needs. However, my (highly trusted) mechanic tells me it is “broke” because I am spewing out 10 times the pollution I should be. I will not argue that my car is not “broke”. Instead, I should evaluate the costs involved in repair versus replace. Replace may involve me learning some new stuff, like where the windshield wiper control is in a new car, but the cost of learning that may be cheaper than trying to repair the current problems.
So, to bring this back to computers, if some large percent of the (trusted) Computing (Technology/Security) community tells me that Windows is “broke”, then I need to determine the cost of repairing it vs replacing it. Saying that it isn’t “broke”, therefore I’m not going to do anything, is not an option. So, for XYZ Linux (or Apple, or anyone else…) to make a dent in the home consumer market, the cost of replacement needs to be reduced (through naming conventions, simpler installation, etc) , *and* the public needs to be made aware of the brokeness and lack of repairability (thereby providing the motivation that you were looking for) of Windows.
Although who knows — maybe Vista will be “fixed”, and there will be no good reason for users to make the jump!
Just my $0.03,
-dotMatt
Yes, and one of them is that Windows users are already productive in their Windows environment. The old adage “if it ain’t broke, why fix it?” applies here more than anywhere else. Say, for example, I’m a happy Windows user. Why should I go through the trouble of learning an unfamiliar OS based on an entirely different philosophy, if I’m already productive in my current OS?
Answer: Once you acquire familiarity with the “other” OS, you could well be more productive in the new OS. That’s another old adage: a small investment now can reap big profits later.
It’s difficult to convince people of that, and even a few years ago Linux wasn’t sufficiently useable to be worth the trouble, unless you were religiously inclined to FLOSS or a geek. Linux’ useability has bettered by leaps and bounds though, and it’s actually getting to be fun. I’ve gotten to the point where I find Windows to be less productive (for me) than Linux.
Really, the “what keeps people from switching en masse to Linux?” crowd needs to get a clue. It has nothing to do with how complicated the installation is, or the steep learning curve, or naming conventions. It’s simply the lack of motivation.
Alright, go say that to my 70-year old Grandma
Oh, and it’s not always the lack of motivation, but the lack of time for most of us. We need to sleep too. Linux geeks don’t sleep, this is known.
Things that will drive people to linux:
1. Interesting new challenges
2. Abillity to relax on the constant virus/malware cleaning
3. The “Microsoft Genuine Advantage” crap
4. The vast array of legal applications availible through a package manager
5. Coolness
6. Controll over the environment (IT-managers)
“Things that will drive people to linux:
1. Interesting new challenges”
Your average user doesn’t want to be “challenged”. If the average Joe User got a kick from being challenged by some OS-related problem, then there wouldn’t be much need for OS customer support.
“2. Abillity to relax on the constant virus/malware cleaning”
I haven’t had a single virus since the Loveletter days. I don’t have a software firewall. I don’t have any anti-virus software. And I’m not the only one. So, what do I have to relax on, once again?
“3. The “Microsoft Genuine Advantage” crap”
That’s an advertisement lullaby. Why should anyone give a crap?
“4. The vast array of legal applications availible through a package manager”
You’re missing the point: why do I need those if I’m already productive in my current environment? E.g.: why do I need, say, Xine, if Windows Media Player (or whatever else they use on Windows) fulfills my needs?
“5. Coolness”
Subjective and therefore irrelevant. Furthermore, if anyone runs Linux because it makes them feel “cool”… Well, that person is a pathetic, image-obsessed monosynaptic twit.
“6. Controll over the environment (IT-managers)”
I’m sorry, I was talking about home desktop, not the corporate one. I apologize for not making myself clear. Thus, I’m afraid, your last point is kind of irrelevant.
I didn’t mean to argue things that will drive _you_ to Linux. I was talking about _people_ in general. 1 & 2 drove me to Linux…
The gunine crap isn’t just advertesing, you have to _proove_ that you have a genuine windows to download some stuff. As many people can’t proove this (pirated software you know) I gather it is one of the things that will drive them to a free system.
“I didn’t mean to argue things that will drive _you_ to Linux. I was talking about _people_ in general. 1 & 2 drove me to Linux…”
So, is it you or people in general? Make up your mind, pal. I’ve already explained to you why the reasons you’ve listed won’t apply to people. You have yet to address my point about user inertia due to the fact that they already are productive in Windows, which very well may be the number one factor that keeps people from switching.
“The gunine crap isn’t just advertesing, you have to _proove_ that you have a genuine windows to download some stuff.”
Oh, I see. I’m sorry, I didn’t understand you. I thought you were referring to MS’s self-advertisement jibba-jabba. You know, those big, high-tech-sounding polysyllabic structures like “trusted computing” that MS’s marketing department keeps regurgitating at the unsuspecting world.
“As many people can’t proove this (pirated software you know) I gather it is one of the things that will drive them to a free system.”
This would be true only if the majority of Windows users had illegal copies of the OS, which is not the case, since most of them run the copy that came pre-installed on the computer when they bought it. Once again, your argument doesn’t hold water.
As many people can’t proove this (pirated software you know) I gather it is one of the things that will drive them to a free system.
No, they just won’t bother downloading it. End of story. Most people don’t know Linux exists (or care). They are quite happy – rightly or wrongly – with Windows.
“Things that will drive people to linux:
1. Interesting new challenges
“
In general users don’t want to be “challenged” with a new OS. Hell the geeks in me *sometimes* finds it fun to mess around with a linux install and find it challengind to get my hardware to work and everything configured to at least a usable state. But my grandma certainly doesn’t want or need the “challenge”
“
2. Abillity to relax on the constant virus/malware cleaning
Mostly viruses find their way into a Windows box thanks to an unsuspecting naive user. If you know what you are using, how to use it and how to protect yourself you’ll be ok mostly. If you don’t then you are open to all sorts of problems, Putting a user into Linux won’t magically make him immune to such things, instead it will just open a whole new world of problems
”
3. The “Microsoft Genuine Advantage” crap
”
People won’t switch becuase of the MGA , if you have a legal copy of windows then this is nothing at all, if you have a pirated copy then im sure you can find ways around it. No need to jump ship.
”
4. The vast array of legal applications availible through a package manager
”
Granted. Yet the question is. How many software they will actually care to use be available from such a package manager. Can he get MS Office? can he get Macrommedia software? Matlab? Maya? The latest half life game? I consider myself to be a heavy downloader, yet I have just about a list of 9 maybe 10 apps with Linux equivalents, the rest don’t. When I reformat I just download these programs and install them, presto. It could be easier with a package manager but I can sincerely manage(pun intended) without it.
”
5. Coolness
”
uuummm mmkay
”
6. Controll over the environment (IT-managers)”
[/i]”
Most IT managers I have encountered touch a computer only to use MS Office and Outlook or Lotus Notes.
I say some will be diven by x and you say some wont… yeah so?
I say some will be driven by y and you sat some wont… correct again, not an argument aginst me thoug…
The MGA thing makes it harder on nontechies to pirate, thus it’s likley that 2 & 3 (plus a geek friend) might drive those peopel… again some.
By control for IT-Managers I menat the abillity to lock down what binaries you can run, what removable media you can connect, what you can install an such. I’ve seen first hand what people do to circumvent company IT-policies, mor controll would be godsens in these environments.
“1. Interesting new challenges ”
There are more interesting challanges than figuring out why many OS’s half finished works doesn’t work, like developing your own application, understand how neural networks works, develope a revolutionary I.A, do your homework, do tasks for your hobbies etc…
You can study sourcecode, manuals and serious math and info textbooks almost regardless the platform you love to use.
“2. Abillity to relax on the constant virus/malware cleaning”
For home user XP SP2 was an huge improvement.
Use Opera for mail and web and you will not get nags (neither the traking cookies that you will get wit default FF settings even on linux).
If you got some nags anyhow, AVG and SpybotS’N Destroy are not hard to use at all and are free.
And although viruses are rare on *x, intrusions and rotkit are possible, moreover, application level troubles can be disastrous (see that sometimes someone steal millions of codes and credit cards numbers from well administered *x servers?), and moreover Linux doesn’t prevent the user to fall in phishing: so you shold not sleep about security even when using *xes.
And noone prevent someone to multiboot Win and Linux (that is not “switching”) in order to do sensible tasks with Linux.
It is a (now, after SP2) weak point and is not strictly toward switching to Linux but rather to use it without throwinh Windows away.
“3. The “Microsoft Genuine Advantage” crap”
I definitely agree with this point!
“4. The vast array of legal applications availible through a package manager ”
I agree that package manager is a superior form of philosophy for control and update the wole machine, but sadly things aren’t perfect and still for many software
doesn’t exist the package for the distribution X, or exist for X distro but at the release $last-1, or that package requires also package y and z (and maybe on your system you already have newer version of y and z!), or you find dozens of users on ng complaining that thing gone weird and so on.
Windows lack most features of a modern package manager but from the home user, sory, win installers *usually* simple works and it’s *usually* very easy to understand what do you need to complete the install, and you usually find the most popular open source software released at the same time of linux version and usually befor other *xes versions!
“5. Coolness ”
I agree, but likewise point 2, it’s a reason to use also Linux, not a reason to switch and throw away Windows.
Figure out a developer that throw away Windows and so doesn’t even test his software on it…
Figure an home user that throw away windows and is not able to run his last game / his newest piece of hardware / the new cool shareware /… on Wine…
They would like to save a 5GB partition on their 250 GB HD for XP rather than throw XP away so regardless of how much Linux is cool, useful and secure they will not be “switchers” but will be “multiusers”.
6. Controll over the environment (IT-managers)
That’s true.
However IT people often have to deal with propietary environments, like i-series, that cannot be easily replaced with any other environment (so neither Win nor Lin will be the solution), or have to deal with legacy application or to dumb untouchable developers that still deploy dos applications or VB crap so Windows may be a better solution, on certain machines, than Linux.
Things that will drive people to linux:
1. Interesting new challenges
I knows a LOT of interesting new challenges (hacking and programming my PSP, learning more about 3D physics for game development, etc. The last thing I found interesting is a challenge jumping in a new OS.
Don’t get me wrong, I had my own OS fixation once (around 1999) when I could boot on Windows, Linux, BeOS and QNX on my PC. I played a lot and learned a lot about them. Yet at the end, when my OS curiosity faded away, I came back to Windows 2000 (then XP). Simply because it’s the one I’m the most productive in.
2. Abillity to relax on the constant virus/malware cleaning
The last time I got infected by a virus or malware under Windows was a half decade ago. This is definitelly not a god reason for me to change.
3. The “Microsoft Genuine Advantage” crap
I’m not sure what you means with this one, so I’m gonna pass.
4. The vast array of legal applications availible through a package manager
I don’t have a package manager on Windows. But everytime time I search an app on Google, I get to find an application that run 99.9% of the time on Windows. I don’t know any applications that are available on Linux (Apache, GIMP, GCC, etc) that are not on Windows, except for the very GUI specific ones (KDevelop), but their Windows counterparts are better (Visual Studio 2005 > any Linux IDE in my opinion).
Then add all the commercial softwares available on Windows and not on Linux.
So as for software availability, Windows beats Linux any time of the day, simply because most Linux softs are available to Windows and then much more.
5. Coolness
If “coolness” was my driving decision force, I would have to pick OSX. Linux would actually be the last one, simply because of the thick “nerd-driven” reputation and the often obnoxious minority in the Linux community.
QNX, BeOS, Windows, OSX are all cooler to me. Heck, even the limited SkyOS sounds cooler to me.
Subjectivity.
6. Controll over the environment (IT-managers)
Nothing I don’t have controls in my Windows PC. Nothing. So it’s still not a good reason for me to switch.
CONCLUSION: The original Snifflez’s post is dead on. Unless Linux let me be more productive, there is NO *logical* reason whatsoever to leave my Windows box behind. The only thing would have been an emotionnal motivation, but my curiosity about exotic OS ended 5 or 6 years ago.
Yet the Linux user base is gorwing steadily… how strange.
Yet the Linux user base is gorwing steadily… how strange.
OSX is also growing. Windows is also growing. As a matter of fact, computer usage in general is growing. If you’re talking about percent share of the market, then yes, Linux is progressing, a 3-4 percent over almost a decade. Quick, celebrate !
“Yet the Linux user base is gorwing steadily… how strange.”
Really? That’s interesting. Now, do you have some objective data to back your statement up?
Nothing solid.
Some stuff here.
http://counter.li.org/estimates.php
Personal experience tells me I meet Linux user much more often now then I did a year or two ago.
You sir, are full of …
Lack of motivation? If someone has never eaten anything but oranges and they think that the only other option is lemons, do they have a lack of motivation if they never ask for a mango? Maybe, you’d consider this a better example: if that same person was getting those oranges for $10 a day and bananas were available for $9 a day but they had to pay $100 for the tools to open the crate that they came in, is it a lack of motivation if a person can’t afford the extra $100?
Maybe analogies are too complicated for you. Obviously, you can’t comprehend something as simple as the fact that ignorance/brain-washing != lack of motivation.
MS and DELL have people so completely brain-washed that Windows is the only option that if a person is asked about installing a different operating system the response is one of confusion. I’m sorry that your reaction has turned from confusion to anger, and that you decided to lash out at an alternative OS.
If Windows were capable of doing half of the things that I expect Linux to do every day, I might be able to tolerate using it on my own computer instead of being forced to use it on others’ computers. Oh well, I guess I’ll just have to be satisfied using a serious OS and not bother switching.
>”It has nothing to do with how complicated the installation is, or the steep learning curve, or naming conventions.”
Possibly because these are no longer the issue, but if they weren’t addressed they would create a barrier. Lack of motivation, because of concern over change (as in everything), I agree, is a major limiting factor in the adoption of “Linux”.
>”Yay! Let’s dumb Linux down, maybe then people will switch!”
Ignoring the sarcasm, simple processes that serve the same purpose as complicated ones waste everybody’s time and energy. We should not complicate things needlessly. This is a golden rule of engineering, and should be applied to “Linux”.
>”ya bunch of desktop Linux-obsessed lunatics”
Well it’s better than being called interface Nazis, I suppose. Still rather petty name calling though.
Visio — Couldn’t even guess!
Excel — At what?
Access — What am I gaining access to again?
Outlook — Is this for projecting something?
WinAmp — boosts the volume of my windows?
Napster — puts me to sleep?
Yet millions of Windows users manage to find those programs and use them daily! They may not know Linux but they’re not (all) stupid. If anything, the Linux menus are EASIER to navigate considering KDE can put something like
GIMP (Photo manipulation)
Konqueror (Web Browser)
etc.
Not to mention the fact that the menu is sorted by the purpose of the application not just a jumbled list in the order of installation (default in Windows).
That’s because the argument is bunk. It’s always been a stupid excuse, and the fact that KDE, and I think Gnome, provide a way to see what the app does instead of its name just shows how silly this is.
Ever tried to find a program in the Windows start menu? Do you know how to find these well named programs:
Software House -> App Name -> Run App
So, how many people know who made every application on their computer? Almost noone (every computer geek in the world doesn’t account for enough here).
But people find it. Partially because the first time they install it XP shows them where it is. However, they found them for 6 years before XP: Because it’s not that difficult and people are willing to look.
People always remark at stupid names they haven’t heard before. Remember XP? I haven’t met a single person who doesn’t think it’s an idiotic name when I tell them what it stands for eXPerience. It only sounds cool because they think it’s technical
.
But people get used to the names and they seat in their mind. Almost like a new word in your vocabulary.
The idea that developers should go ahead and pick user-friendly names is ludicrous. People put thousands of hours into applications and I see no reason why they should be told what to name it (other than having conflicting names of course).
FOSS consistently lacks marketing teams (except Mozilla) and that’s a good thing.
Windows users seem to have no problem remembering things like “firefox.” Kazaa. Napster. Trillian (a reference from Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy), Nero, etc. Nero isn’t the common choice of CD burning app over Easy CD Creator because of it’s great name; but because it’s actually a well written piece of software. Easy CD Creator on the other hand is not so grand.
This isn’t details. This is nitpicking to the nth degree. Where n tends to infinity
.
Yes. People find it, but that’s probably because they installed it and expects the software to be there. If you look at the typical PC it only comes with a few programs as standard. If you buy a Dell you get Office/Works, PowerDVD and CD burning software. Most of the software is installed later by the user.
With most Linux-distributions you get mabye hundreds of programs already installed, so the program menu is probably overwhelming at first sight. But I don’t think that’s a problem. People are willing to explore, and it helps that KDE displays a description after the name.
Yes, but when you have a menu where the first letter of every item is the same (K in this case), it makes more difficult to find the needed option. In this respect Gnome menu (as it looks say in Ubuntu Breezy) is much more sensible and usable.
I too thought it was funny that the app names he found the least problem with were the Kfoo names that everybody dislikes
Sal needs to familiarise himself with the purpose of a menu and the functions of a menu editor. As noted already the function of the menu entries is already in parenthesis.
At least the menu in the screenshot accompanying the article is categorised. It’s more than we can say for the menu under Windows that turns into a mess without intervention.
I don’t know which side of the Linux desktop argument this guy falls on, but I’m guessing he’s a Windows nut. So for my sarcastic tone, I apologize in advance. Now then…
You’ve got to be kidding me! What’s in a name anyway? Someone already pointed out names like Excel and Outlook are completely meaningless, yet people seem to associate them with their functions like people use the name Kleenex to mean facial tissue. Thanks to Microsoft’s marketing machine for that one. So if Microsoft can do it, it can happen elsewhere. Eventually, Konqueror and amaroK could be as relatively ubituitous as Internet Explorer and Windows Media Player (which, while descriptive, is pretty lame). It’s all about what you’re accustomed to. And what the hell is an Acura anyway? And a Scion is a stick, which has nothing to do with a car at all. But no one seems to take issue with those stupid names names.
My guess is the Microsoft shills have no more to complain about Linux usability, so they’ve set their sights on something else to gripe about. But it’s utterly rediculous.
Not to mention the fact that the menu is sorted by the purpose of the application not just a jumbled list in the order of installation (default in Windows).
Exactly, not only does windows come default with a jumbled list, any 3rd party applications you install will in most cases get placed in a submenu named after the vendor. How logical is that?
As an example take Acrobat Reader, the name does not really give any good indication of it’s use and it’s hidden under a Adobe submenu. Basically I don’t think the article writer have a clue, using windows as a good example at that. Not being able to take a decent screenshot and not understand the AIM part of Gaim are other indications of the same.
GNOME, and some distributions, now tend to designate applications by function, rather than by name.
So yo have :
Menu -> Office -> Word Processor
Menu -> Office -> Database
Menu -> Internet -> Web Brower
Menu -> Graphics -> Image Viewer
Menu -> Graphics -> PDF Viewer
Menu -> System Tools -> Configuration Editor
Maybe this will become the norm, if enough people like it. In any case for the new user you couldn’t have much simpler.
Yes, but “Web Browser”, will this name replace Epiphany or Firefox?
There’s an obvious brand-recognition problem for the end-user here. If he clicks “Web Browser” for the 1st time, he doesn’t know what to expect as a web browser.
And which browser should be chosen as this default “Web Browser” ?
Hmm? Let’s see, AbiWord is listed in my menu under Office as Word Processor and Gnumeric is listed as Gnumeric Spreadsheet. I guess that is hard for a windows user to understand, but it is too long a string to list it as: “That app that doesn’t let me do what I want to do and makes that paper clip character pop up and tell me to do it Bill’s way or it’s the highway and finally get’s fed up with me and crashes to teach me a lesson.”
Just took a quick look in the Kicker on my Ubuntu box running KDE.
It looks like the Distro can change the way names are displayed in the menu. For example (first part before the = is the name used in the menu)
Image Editor = The Gimp
Web Browser = Konqueror
Media Player = NoAtun
and so on.
On the most part, users will be looking in the menu for the app and as long as the distro setup the “shortcut” files with general names there should be no problem. The same thing can be done in Gnome. The only time there could be a problem is when a user goes to download an app and the name is something strange.
If there isn’t a problem you can always invent one.
The world seems to be filled with people looking for problems; QT not being GPL was a problem according to the tribe of problemfinders, then it went GPL, now the same tribe claim that is the problem.
Same story here, if people are able to figure out that “Access” is a database and not some password holding application, at least I am convinced they can figure out what “Kopete – (Instant Messaging)” means.
Conlusion of article:
1. Find red herring
2. ???
3. Profit!!
I was thinking the exact same thing recently, though not regarding linux:
OSNews editors: OSNews is full of headlines along the lines of: “Bagel just hit a major milestone, allowing full duplex communications between its nodes, more here”, I often have zero clue what Bagel is, and I usually don’t want to follow a link to find out whether I DO want to know what Bagel is.
People can and should name their projects whatever they want, but in an environment which may include newbies (whether on a desktop menu or on the web), a few words of descriptive text or mouseover would help a lot.
It all depends on what a person associates names with for them to have any meaning. For that you need Marketing and visibility. What is stopping both people from switiching as well as hardware vendors giving support is the visibility. For Windows and Mac software there are displays and aisles filled with it in the local computer store. Where is the Linux software? In the back storage room so no one knows it is there and you have to ask for it. I say this as in the LA area it took me going to 3 different big computer retail stores (National chain), and could not find any Linux software anywhere. At the 3rd location I finally asked and they went to the back and were able to produce Linspire 5 and Suse 10. My point is get it out where people can see it, then they will know about it and start to think about it. Until then, the mainstream will not even know it exists.
Microsoft has always had a thing about coopting generic terms for product names, then suing anyone who thought about using a similar name for their product (cough – Windows – cough). Don’t believe me? Just TRY to distribute a program with a name like one of MS’s.
MS does it on purpose. You want to make a multimedia player for Windows? Fine, but don’t even think about calling it what it is. MS OWNS that title. Want to make a word processor? Just peachy, but MS owns the descriptive title there as well. It keeps the idiots who NEED simple titles on MS products, while discouraging the competition. Hey, it’s a lot of work being an illegal monopoly.
I love Linux, and don’t use anything else, but I just choke on krandrtray. How the heck can I understand what that’s for or associate it with anything? It’s not even an application, but rather just a system utility that doesn’t deserve a non-descriptive name. I came across some meaning once, something like K Rotate And D?? (edit: it’s K resize and rotate)
Give me a meaningless Express or Outlook any day!
Edited 2005-12-27 18:43
I always find it fascinating how defensive people get about others’ opinions. Even if the author is not 100% correct he raises some valuable points about branding. I’m a graphic designer and branding is a very tricky business. Most marketing experts would vote to have brands that in someway reflect the nature of the product. But we all know of examples where a completely unrelated name was given to a product or company (Firefox, Apple, etc.) However the exception doesn’t make the rule and many companies are using names that brand their product with a fuctional name that also lends itself to some larger branding scheme (imovie, itunes, iDVD, ipod, etc.).
Linux and OSS by its very nature lacks cohesive or what is sometimes called “holographic” branding. There are exceptions to this, as is the case with KDE. But one could even point out that KDE’s Knaming Kscheme and branding conventions detracts from the branding efforts of the companies that use it as a DE. And quite frankly the keverything is just annoying and lacks the cool marketability that the iconvention has in apple’s line of products. Apple uses the “i”convention but doesn’t name EVERYTHING with an “i” in front of it.
In the end I agree with being more smart when it comes to branding and naming schemes for OSS. The supposed “stupid” people that use windows and can’t understand more abstract names are also children and the elderly; so let’s be humble in front of our audience. Personally I like people and I like to help them.
-paul bloch
openartist.net
PS: software developers aren’t the greatest marketers or graphic designers. If they were, i imagine linux would be the default os by now.
PPS: firefox may be as popular as internet explorer but that’s only because it’s actually better. Any linux distro doesn’t even beat XP in terms of a cohesive brand experience that is up to todays’ standards. People like blinking shining things that install easily-In all honesty, I know i do.
PS. There’s a very strong art community in and around the FOSS community. You might check out things like crystalforgnome, kde-look, linuxcult.com, and etc.
The point is: The people doing the actual work don’t care about branding; they like the names they’ve picked for some reason or another and shouldn’t be bothered with the idea naming things for those users who will likely never even file a bug report
.
It’s a practical part of the way FOSS gets written. You can’t really fix it. The best fix is to tell people to use the other 70% of their brain they’re leaving dormant and try to remember a few things. They’ve been doing it on everything for years.
It’s really not asking a lot. FOSS doesn’t have many of the same problems which commercial software has to overcome. For example: Selling in a retail store. People are walking by quickly, often talking, or being talked at by a salesperson. They’re not going to stop and say “GIMP” I wonder what that stands for? But, they will see “Photoshop” and think “hey, I need a program to work on my photos!”
When they’re googling on the internet and they come across GIMP for “photo manipulating program linux” they’ll have plenty of time to look at screenshots, read feature lists; or just try it and see.
The problem that guy has is, that in Linux an application is named XINE and in Windows named “Windows Media Player”.
If I were a newbie (on Windows or on Linux), the way how to find out with which application I have to open say, a mpg video, would be like one of this:
– press the Home/MyFiles button.
– navigate to the mpg file
– double click the file
– an application capable of showing the mpg starts
OR:
– click on Menu/Start button
– go to Programs/Multimedia/Video
– select an Application
– try out if that app is capable of viewing an mpg
Both ways need the newbie to try out how something is achieved. MS Windows and a typical desktop Linux distribution are identical in that regard.
– click on Menu/Start button
– go to Programs/Multimedia/Video
– select an Application
– try out if that app is capable of viewing an mpg
My first try would probably be “Applications->Sound & Video->Movie PLayer” …
OR:
– click on Menu/Start button
– go to Programs/Multimedia/Video
– select an Application
– try out if that app is capable of viewing an mpg
You can just double-click the file in linux, too. Or you can right-click the file, go down to “Open With” and get a sub-menu of all programs capable of opening/playing that type of file.
Hold your laughter.
I’ve had a full change of heart about this
. I think it should be done, every program should be renamed with a two-three word description of what it does.
Starting with Linux. From now one it will be called: kernel. Just so everyone knows what it does.
That should put an end to people referring to KDE, Gnome, and other things as “Linux.” They’ll know that surely KDE and Gnome aren’t kernels!
You may laugh now.
> Starting with Linux. From now one it will be called:
> kernel. Just so everyone knows what it does.
Being hard to bite and leave a nasty taste?
Sorry could not resist
– Morin
Unless you use the KDE version, Korn
. They’re in the process of being sued over the name.
Some guy on slashdot:
Corrected list
Linux entries are read off directly from my GNOME menu
==============
Web Browser
Windows: IE
Linux: Firefox Web Browser
Graphics Editing
Windows: Photoshop, Illustrator
Linux: GNU Image Manipulation Program, Inkscape Vector Illustrator
Movie Playback
Windows: Windows Media Player
Linux: Totem Movie Player
DVD Playback:
Windows: WinDVD, Windows Media Player
Linux: DVD Player, Totem Movie Player
Simple Text Editing
Windows: Notepad, Wordpad, TextPad
Linux: Text Editor
Instant Messaging
Windows: AOL Instant Messenger
Linux: Instant Messenger
Music Playback:
Windows: Windows Media Player, Itunes, WinAmp
Linux: Music Player
CD Ripping:
Windows: Itunes, Windows Media Player
Linux: Soundjuicer CD Ripper
CD Burning
Windows: Roxio Easy CD Creator, Nero
Linux: CD/DVD Creator
I was just about to write about this.
KDE has a similar menu (the screenshot in the article shows KDE): Konqueror (Webbrowser) …
Though this might have changed by now, since I don’t use KDE that much.
That guy claims he is a linux advocate. So he is an advocat since five minutes or what? How can he overlook this “oh so visible feature”? Maybe because another “Linux is so soooo flawed” article generates more hits.
I just looked at the enlarged screenshot. It even shows that nameing scheme.
So it must be his trained monkey that made the screenshot and linked to it, without him ever looking at it.
You have renamed all Linux apps to suit your argumentation, that’s not honest, just as the linux community BTW:
Firefox Web Browser
Mozilla Firefox
GNU Image Manipulation Program, Inkscape Vector Illustrator
GIMP, Inkscape
Totem Movie Player
Totem
DVD Player, Totem Movie Player
(What is this “DVD Player”?), Totem
Text Editor
(What is this “Text Editor”?)
Instant Messenger
(What is this “Instant Messenger”?)
Music Player
(What is this “Music Player”?)
Soundjuicer CD Ripper
Soundjuicer
CD/DVD Creator
(What is this “CD/DVD Creator”?)
Such arguments don’t help the Linux community. Linux is crap. It doesn’t even need to be as good as Windows, it needs to be a lot better, otherwise people won’t switch. Remember: When you have something that just works, you keep it. Worse: You won’t switch to something that doesn’t work for you. End of the story.
The author meant the application names themselves and the naming conventions, not the menu labels.
I posted a message on my blog concerning the article of Sal Cangeloso.
Help me to enrich it and to translate it in english to reply to the original article.
http://www.neminis.org/wordpress/i-nomi-delle-applicazioni-impedisc…
how people have time to spend on writing pointless articles?
I know 50 people that use approx. same software and everyone of them knows what is using, and if I tell someone “I installed new version of Kopete yesterday”, he won’t say to me “What was that, sorry!?”, but rather “Ahh great, tell me how is it!”, which means, different groups of users has different stereotypes of groups for software. Which makes this articles wrong…
Linux is rich with software, that is all!
if the users want name changes – let the distros do it – i’m sure there is a space for user-friendly distros ..
False complain. If someone complains about name, why not getting a menu editor then rename that application?
You plan on submitting an “article” telling everyone what a *BAD* choice of a name it is?
Get a Freaking Life!!!
Browser: Lynx/2.8.5dev.7 libwww-FM/2.14 SSL-MM/1.4.1 OpenSSL/0.9.7
PORN VIEWER… is it not a very descriptive name???
or win4lin for example, in linux world everybody is free to choose the name that want for its applications
sorry my english…
Ah yes, good ol’ Porn View
.
Seriously guys, I can back him up on this, it’s an image viewing program!
I recommend GQview over it btw.
Yeah seriously naming conventions in Linux are horride. For instance compare “Microsoft Outlook” to KMail. I mean obviously you can tell one is made by Microsoft (++good) and is used for looking out, and the other has something todo with the letter K and Mail, what’s with that sheeeesh. Looks like some Linux programmer loves his Special K alittle too much or something.
Gaim and Xchat have nothing to do with Gnome, really. If they are gnome apps how come you can run them on Windows? Windows automagically turns into Gnome if you install them?
Say after me, GTK means GimpToolKit, not GnomeToolKit. Repeat until you get it.
I am an English speaker, but I know that modern software needs to at least attempt to be multilingual.
Claiming that “Windows Media Player” clearly describes its purpose only has credence if you ignore the fact that English speakers are not the only pool of software users. “Gnome Image Manipulation Program” is certainly descriptive in English, but “GIMP” is far more useful as a keyword that people anywhere can remember as a paint program. Mapping a product name to a purpose is a good universal way of doing it.
Besides, if localization is done properly, the rollover tooltip can have descriptive text in whatever language the user selects.
This is similar to when BankAmericard changed its somewhat descriptive name to Visa (which it certainly is not). It only affected English speakers, but made the product more pronounceable and identifiable to global users.
MSN Messenger, Yahoo!Messenger
GAIM, Kopete
Paint Shop Pro, Photoshop
GIMP, Inkscape
Incredimail
Evolution
Internet Explorer
Konqueror, Galeon, Epiphany
Windows Media Player
Amarok, Beep, Xine
Notepad, Textpad
Kate, gedit, nano
WS_FTP Pro 2006
Kasablanca
WinZIP, WinRAR
Ark
Nero Burning ROM
K3B
And the list goes on… So your arguments collapsed. This is not the right way of pushing your “superior” operating system down our throat.
Try to get a clue.
KDE include a feature that adds the descriptive name of an app right before or after it (your choice), or only the description, ….
The Gnome apps mostly follow the HIG and add descriptive names next to the name of the tool, and the tooltip describes what the program is.
So this troll is a non-issue, but as always with trolls on Linux, they are late and don’t know what they are talking about.
So this troll is a non-issue, but as always with trolls on Linux, they are late and don’t know what they are talking about.
Fair enough, all trolls on Windows (from the Linux community) keep pointing issues from Windows 95 and don’t know what they are talking about.
WTF are you puffing? You are talking out of your ass, just as the windows community BTW
My menu, completly un-customized clearly says
Kmix (Sound Mixer)
Ksnapshot (Screen Capture Program)
Kopete (Instant Messenger)
Kaffeine (Media Player)
and so on. EVERY SINGLE item has a descriptive caption behind it in the menu. What part of this are you too dense to grasp? Your argumentation is disingenuous at best, and your lame apperance certainly isn’t becoming for the Windows community.
</sarcasm>
My menu, completly un-customized clearly says […]
This only goes for KDE-specific software, stupid ass.
This account for, oh, 10% of all Linux apps…
I didn’t know opera – Web Browser was a KDE specific application…
Wanna see a stupid ass? Look in a mirror near you.
“You’ve got to be kidding me!”
“My guess is the Microsoft shills have no more to complain about Linux usability, so they’ve set their sights on something else to gripe about. But it’s utterly ridiculous.”
Agree completely. On Windows, to find many programs on the menus one has to magically just know the name of the company that wrote the applicable software.
In contrast, here is the list that I actually see on the menus of my Linux system:
Web Browser
Windows: Internet Explorer
Linux: Networking -> WWW -> Web Browser (Konqueror)
Graphics Editing
Windows: Photoshop, Illustrator
Linux: Multimedia -> Graphics -> Image Manipulation Program (Krita)
or: Multimedia -> Graphics -> Photo Management (digiKam)
or: Multimedia -> Graphics -> Paint Program (KColourPaint)
Movie Playback
Windows: Windows Media Player
Linux: Multimedia -> Video -> Media Player (Kaffeine)
DVD Playback:
Windows: WinDVD, Windows Media Player
Linux: Multimedia -> Video -> Media Player (Kaffeine)
or: Multimedia -> Video -> MPlayer
or: Multimedia -> Video -> VLC GUI Media Player
Simple Text Editing
Windows: Notepad, Wordpad, TextPad
Linux: Applications -> Text Editors -> Text Editor (KWrite)
or: Applications -> Text Editors -> Simple Text Editor (KEdit)
Instant Messaging
Windows: AOL Instant Messenger
Linux: Networking -> Instant Messaging -> Instant Messenger (Kopete)
or: Networking -> Instant Messaging -> Gaim
Music Playback:
Windows: Windows Media Player, Itunes, WinAmp
Linux: Multimedia -> Sound -> Music Player (JuK)
or: Multimedia -> Sound -> Audio Player (Amarok)
or: Multimedia -> Sound -> CD Player (KsCD)
CD Ripping:
Windows: Itunes, Windows Media Player
Linux: Multimedia -> Sound -> CD Ripper (KAudioCreator)
CD Burning
Windows: Roxio Easy CD Creator, Nero
Linux: Applications -> Archiving -> CD burning -> CD & DVD burning (K3b)
“The only time there could be a problem is when a user goes to download an app and the name is something strange.”
Configuration -> Packaging -> Package Manager (KPackage)
or:
Configuration -> Packaging -> Synaptic Software Manager
Synaptic is slightly the easier one to use. Both group all available applications into functional groups, and both allow searching and filtering of the packages based on package names or descriptions or any part thereof. Both will completely and transparently work out any required dependencies, and both offer a download and (complete) install of any selected packages (plus dependencies) in a few clicks.
“This only goes for KDE-specific software, stupid ass. This account for, oh, 10% of all Linux apps…”
Sorry, but you are completely incorrect.
Every single application on my Linux system is organized into logically named menus and sub-menus, regardless of whether or not it happens to be a KDE-specific app.
eg:
Neworking -> WWW -> Mozilla Firefox
or:
Multimedia -> Graphics -> GQview
or:
Configuration -> Packaging -> Synaptic Software Manager
None of those are KDE applications, yet both are placed logically in the KDE menus and it is quite hard to tell that these are not in fact KDE applications.
… so you are just plain wrong … stupid ass.
Neworking -> WWW -> Mozilla Firefox
Then we gotta have different distros. My KDE doesn’t organize non-KDE apps this way….Stupid ass!
“You have renamed all Linux apps to suit your argumentation”
Not at all, Joe User, not a bit of it.
We are telling you how the applications in question appear on the Linux Menus.
Eg:
Linux: Office -> Publishing -> PDF Viewer (KPDF)
as opposed to
Windows: Programs -> Adobe -> Acrobat Reader
!!!
Linux is way easier to find the right program from the menus and to know in advance what it does.
“it helps that KDE displays a description after the name.”
True, but even more important is the arrangement of programs into logically-named sections within the menus.
A modern KDE system (KUbuntu, KANOTIX, MEPIS, PCLinuxOS etc) can install literally hundreds of easy-to-find applications off a single LiveCD or install CD to give you a completely functional PC from an unformatted disk in about 15 minutes.
You can easily find all the applications and be productive within about 15 minutes after that.
“firefox may be as popular as internet explorer but that’s only because it’s actually better. Any linux distro doesn’t even beat XP in terms of a cohesive brand experience that is up to todays’ standards. People like blinking shining things that install easily-In all honesty, I know i do.”
But that is just it … get a modern, up-to-date LiveCD distro – preferably KDE-based and APT based (KUbuntu, KANOTIX, MEPIS, PCLinuxOS (I’m sure there are others)) – and one has indeed got hold of “blinking shining things that install easily” – hundreds of them right out of the box, easy to find, already installed for you – and a smorgasboard choice of literally thousands more easily installed things available for free on-line easily searchable all in one place installed in a few clicks and guaranteed free of malware.
“Then we gotta have different distros. My KDE doesn’t organize non-KDE apps this way….Stupid ass!”
Mine does. Actually – several types of the ones I try do. MEPIS, PCLinuxOS, KANOTIX to name a few.
If your distro doesn’t and you would like it to – open Menu Editor (KMenuEdit) (right-click on the “K” button equivalent to the Start button of Windows) – and drag-and-drop and rename your apps as they appear on the menus to your hearts content – stupid ass.
If you are speaking from a “newbies” point of view – then recommend to newbies a distro that does have a sensible, logical and easy to follow Menu – PCLinuxOS is the best distro I have tried from this respect. Perhaps Xandros is good also?
Doing so would insinuate that Windows has done something right which couldn’t be more wrong, there is nothing there worth stealing especially the probably copy-written names of programs.
This article has been useful…
…for the opposite reason from the author’s.
I now am aware of the (app. category) hint beside KDE application names — I think this is great idea.
I am now also aware that K apps are sorted into categories by type of application — another great idea.
I do agree with the person who said us Windows users need a reason to move. I still don’t have a good enough one yet, but 2 things I might have thought were obstacles are no longer there.
I also agree with the poster about Edubuntu. This should be the true flagship product for Linux that everyone of all penguin stripes gets behind. Not that it is a be all and end all. But that it become the “first Sony” for school kids.
All that needs to happen in that Application menu items and Launcher icon titles need to append the Application Category when being presented to users.
“Konqueror Web Browser”
“Opera Web Browser”
“Epiphany Web Browser”
“Galeon Web Browser”
“Firefox Web Browser”
“GIMP Image Editor”
“Inkscape Vector Editor”
“Helix Media Player”
“Xine Media Player”
“Ogle DVD Player”
“Xine Media Player”
“Totem Media Player”
“Gedit”
“Kate”
“Gaim IM Client”
“Kopete IM Client”
“XMMS Audio Player”
“Noatun Audio Player”
“MPlayer”
“Grip CD Ripper”
“Gnome Toaster”
“Sound Juicer”
“K3b CD Creator”
“Gnome Toaster”
“XCDRoast CD Creator”
Or if the sight of repetitive text get bothersome use category as a sub menu and place it into the tool tip.
http://developer.gnome.org/projects/gup/hig/2.0/desktop-integration…
And there we all see how you failed all your math classes. Thank you for playing feel free to return after succesfully completing highschool.