Submitted by “As desktop Linux becomes ever more professional, and with Microsoft still a year away from shipping its new Vista version of Windows, could now be the time to go open-source on the desktop? Of course, circumstances will vary from company to company, but if you’re ready to make the move, there’s a good crop of Linux distributions ready to accommodate your needs.”
Really, you MUST be jokeing. Show me a replacement for SMB server and it’s “ecosystem” (Outlook mainly) and i’ll stop laughing.
Oh, and to be clear, the replacement must not require e full crew of top-notch admins to setup and mantain.
I won’t eaven go into the “must be purchasable at Dell with mail-in reabate”….
Still laughing.
If you have a Windows SBS server running Exchange, you’ll need an administrator to keep it running well.
If you have a Linux SMB server running any one of the open source alternatives to Exchange, you’ll need an administrator to keep it running well.
There are obviously a lot of other factors to take into consideration, but since this article is talking about Linux on the desktop, rather than on the server, in a small company, I’m not sure how even what you said is relevant. Microsoft astroturfing, maybe?
Problem isn’t that there is open source equivalents of Exchange. the problem is there is no open source equivalent of Outlook.
If you say Evolution now, then you clearly haven’t used Outlook very much.
I use Outlook at work for email and calendar, and I use Evolution at home for email and calendar. I use Outlook more than I use Evolution.
I prefer Evolution. They both have their strong points and their weak points; I just find Evolution overall to be better-featured (not fuller. Better) and easier to use and look at. While I certainly acknowledge that ymmv, I don’t believe it’s reasonable to suggest that Evolution is not a suitable replacement for Outlook in most cases. My experience would suggest otherwise, as would the various experiences of other users whose comments on the matter I’ve read.
Really, you MUST be jokeing. Show me a replacement for SMB server and it’s “ecosystem” (Outlook mainly) and i’ll stop laughing.
Please don’t make me laugh. You’re one of these people who gets a small business to spend money they can’t afford because of the lack of your own technical skills or imagination on how to get stuff done on a budget – and make much more money for yourself.
The ecosystem *s****** exists.
Oh, and to be clear, the replacement must not require e full crew of top-notch admins to setup and mantain.
What do you think an average small business today spends on that brilliant small business server solution put in by their local, friendly and thick MCSE? You really think stuff like SBS requires no administration?! And yes, those admins had better be top notch as far as I’m concerned.
Still laughing.
I’ve been laughing for years. There have been many IT businesses I’ve seen, met, and even been interviewed by at one point, selling so-called solutions to small businesses consisting of all-Microsoft, all-Sage or all-*insert vendor here* software they’ve read about in PCTwit magazine or been to a conference on.
Guess what? I’ve looked in the phone book to find them a year later and none of them are in there because they’ve gone bust. They’ve all been replaced by yet more IT businesses who think it’s a great idea to use the same stuff. Their customers aren’t impressed either. Small wonder IT gets such a bad rap in the SME world.
“You’re one of these people who gets a small business to spend money they can’t afford because of the lack of your own technical skills”
Well, keep in mind that i admin for 3 SMEs and there is no windows server in sight. Although at previous SMEs i ‘ve worked i have set up Exchange servers. So i’m not talking out of my a*&
like so many.
“The ecosystem *s****** exists.”
Please detail this sollution, not for my sorry ass (apparently i’m beyound hope), but for all the other suckers that think like me and read this comments.
“What do you think an average small business today spends on that brilliant small business server solution put in by their local, friendly and thick MCSE? “
I don’t know. Where I work you get your MCSE only if you work as an enterprise admin (or are planning to do so). All the MCSEs i know are experts in their chosen field. Dismiss this as anecdotal evidence, but arround here it’s pretty much the norm. If you work for SMEs nobody is going to ask for your MCSE. And if you apply for a job at a large enterprise the MCSE is the requirement. You prove yourself at the interview….
But i realise we live and work in very different enviroments, and I may not be right. But the thought of having linux desktops scares the shit out of me . I have to go know, but i’ll detail later as to why.
“Go into these small business and you will see Exchange Servers installed on the same server as Active Directory. You will see not a single firewall and not a tape backup solution within 300 feet of the company.”
You know what is in the mind of the regular SME owner ? And i know cause i’ve had this said to me (although in a more “gentle” manner) : “OK, so we buy all of these, but can we not pay you for the next 6 months so the investment pays off ? No ? Oh, then i guess you’ll have to try harder”. Say to a SME owner “tape backup” and he’ll say : “late night writing dvd-roms backup”.
As I said before …. i’ve been there.
Edited 2005-11-25 11:20
“Oh, and to be clear, the replacement must not require e full crew of top-notch admins to setup and mantain. ”
Now, this is the problem: that you don’t need to be qualified. I’m sure a lot of managers think that not having to hire anyone actually competent is awesome but it isn’t. It’s one of the main reasons there are so many horribly misconfigured and broken Exchange systems out there that spews spam and unnecessary virus “alerts” to the wrong people.
Yeah, yeah … the instant fanboy reaction is “OMG HE’S INSULTING LINUX … MOD DOWN”, but let me explain.
On Monday, I went to the Vancouver Linux User Group meeting at BCIT. I arrived there at about 7:40 PM, at which point everyone had already been let in, and the presenter was fiddling with his SuSE laptop. He couldn’t get it working with the projector. Since the meet started at 7:30, I’m assuming he had been at it for about 10 minutes up to that point. When it seemed like he finally was on the brink of success (we could see SuSE X-based loading screen on the projector), the laptop rebooted yet again.
This went on for another half hour. He simply could not get Linux working with the projector to make his presentation. Finally, at 8:10, he got the presentation going — and this is the ironic part: He used the BCIT-supplied Windows XP box, hooked it up to the projector, and VNC’ed into a Linux machine on which the presentation was actually running.
Meanwhile all the Linux-using people are sitting there quietly, witnessing the pure golden irony for themselves.
I’m sorry, but if this presentation was being shown to a bunch of suits, and you were trying to show them that Linux could save their business some money, you wouldn’t get very far. Forty minutes of trying to get a laptop working with the projector? Come on. My Windows XP laptop has absolutely no problems with projectors. I plug them in, hit a function key, and the projector turns on with a duplicate of my desktop. The same goes for my iBook. This kind of ease of use is expected of all technology in 2005/2006. Where is Linux?
Laughably, this slap-in-the-face of the Linux zealots was not enough to curb their elitist attitude. There were a number of anti-Windows comments made during the meet, all of which I snickered at, seeing as how Windows was what finally enabled the meeting to happen.
The blind zealotry is just amazing. When faced with the hard truth, Linux zealots will still cling on to their beloved religio — I mean operating system.
Read this in full, then decide how to moderate the comment. Note that I’m not trolling, I’m just re-telling an actual experience at an actual Linux user-group meeting.
That whole story happened to me two weeks ago at a talk I was giving. Except it was on my host’s XP laptop. Should I have denounced everyone there as Windows zealots?
Things like that happen to every system once in a while. It means nothing, your story is meaningless.
So it’s okey to suck at something if others suck too? Is that you argument?
I don’t give a rats ass if Windows can or can’t do soemthing. If Linux can’t do it to suit MY NEEDS it needs to change, not matter how much other system sucks at it too.
I modded you down because nothing I’ve ever seen you post has been more than anti-Linux or pro-Microsoft spam. You use FUD and misinformation to its maximum potential, and I’ve never seen you post anything balanced, helpful, informative, etc. You appear to be interested only in slagging off Linux, and being inflammatory, regardless of how valid your points are.
Even if what you posted above is unbiased and accurate, I don’t care (and I suspect I’m not alone). You’ve proven that your comments are not worth reading, rather like the boy who cried wolf (except, of course, he wasn’t posting slanted nonsense; but you get the idea).
In short, sir, you are a troll.
Obviously you haven’t read every one of my posts then, fanboy. If you think pointing out a negative aspect of Linux is inflammatory, then you need to get back to reality: Nothing is perfect. If you can’t deal with criticism dealt out towards Linux, then go back to your hermit cave.
never attack pro-linux. Even if you’re right, you’re surely wrong.
Desktop config is a pain in linux. Sure I can claim otherwise and try to impress your friend with what I can do in the terminal editing files, compile x, a read howto one two three. But thinking that configuring linux desktop is easy (multiple screen, bluetooth sync with pda/cellphone, wi-fi sharing, scanner, printer config, firewall, digital camera, etc…), is completly illusory.
Not that I cannot configure what I said, but there is a line between “just working” and proving you are a ranked übergeek.
The other classical comment: The guys who used it is a *!%$/!**! (put what you want).
Bravo! This is exactly what make a system better.
You’re generalizing your argument away. I agree that often getting some of these things working in “Linux” (Linux being a rather generic term for any number of different distros with different capabilities) can be a real mission. But, similarly, it can be a real mission in Windows. Regardless of what you’re using, you’re quite likely to need some instructions somewhere. That’s the nature of the computing world.
The truth is that if you go out and buy hardware which isn’t supported by Linux, and then try to get it working, you’re going to be SOL. But if you do your homework and buy hardware which is supported, in many cases you will have to do very little to get things working. For instance, to address your specific examples, I know that if you use a dualhead GeForce, an HP PSC1210 and a Genius DV610 G-Shot camera, the dual-screen config can be set up in a couple of clicks in Ubuntu by installing the nvidia binary drivers (enabling the correct repository is also a couple of clicks); the printer/scanner can be set up by installing the correct utility from the repos (this was the most finnicky, but by no means difficult due to the vast wealth of resources on the ubuntu forums); and the camera will Just Work(TM). I’ve never tried getting wifi working, but I know for a fact that certain wireless cards work automagically with Ubuntu. Neither have I tried bluetooth synching, and I know nothing about it. What you meant about firewalls I’m not sure; software firewalls are easily installed and configured (installing Firestarter on Ubuntu is a lot easier than installing, say, ZoneAlarm on Windows, and Firestarter is a lot easier to use for a newbie in my opinion), and hardware firewalls are generally OS-agnostic.
Note that I focus specifically on Ubuntu, because that’s what I use. Comparing Windows to “Linux” is really a bit disingenuous unless you specify which distro. I haven’t used other distros for a while, so I can’t comment on their capabilities.
Be that as it may, how many people need to set up all of the things you mention? I certainly don’t, and the other Ubuntu machines I’ve set up and administer for people don’t either. Printing and scanning are usually needed. Multiple screens are pretty rare, as is wifi and bluetooth, and I’ve never come across a digital camera not working as they’re generally just mass storage devices.
All that said, if you do need all the things that you say, and you find it hard to set up in Linux and easy on Windows, then stick with Windows. It’s obviously the best tool for the job in your case! I don’t think any sane or reasonable Linux advocate would suggest that Linux is always better!
That’s the problem … there are few sane/reasonable Linux advocates from what I can see. Most of them will always try to throw in a “Windoze sucks!” somewhere.
Why doesn’t a moderator take action and ban user “Linux is Poo” for his continous trolling which does little to benefit readers? Anytime this user post after a news article readers have to sift through his garbage to find useful comments from other posters regarding an article. “Linux is Poo” bio “Linux is garbage. If you disagree, you are wrong.” gives a clear indication of his mentality and lack of professionalism.
Edited 2005-11-26 08:34
“Why doesn’t a moderator take action and ban user “Linux is Poo””
Its nigh impossible to effectively ban an individual from a forum. Ban his IP address? Chances are he’s on a dynamic IP and will just get a different one later.
Ban the entire network he is on? Eh, lots of collateral damage for very little gain.
And both the above measures can be circumvented by using Tor.
Close his account? He’ll just get another one.
Linux Is Poo, I’ve seen your story happen multiple times at my university with Windows XP laptops. You want to know why this stuff happens?
Because beamers do not always work with every laptop, under every circumstance. Anyone giving presentations on a regular basis knows that one must always test the to-be-used laptop in combo with the to-be-used beamer a few days before holding the presentation.
So, the blame for the weird stuff that happened in your story can only be attributed to the stupidity of the presenter.
Of course, I use my iBook for stuff like this. And it always works
.
Oh, I understand that not every laptop will work with every projector … usually there’s no video signal, the video is warped, or it’s unstable … but an outright reboot of the laptop? That’s piss-poor programming.
The presenter, by the way, was Aaron Seigo, a KDE core developer.
Obviously you haven’t read every one of my posts then, fanboy. If you think pointing out a negative aspect of Linux is inflammatory, then you need to get back to reality: Nothing is perfect. If you can’t deal with criticism dealt out towards Linux, then go back to your hermit cave.
It feels more as if you are trying to point our weaknesses for the sake of pointing out weaknesses. Let’s not swivel around the truth, LIP; your posts aren’t exactly always the epitomy of netiquette (neither are mine, but I get a bit more crap thrown my way).
I suggest you put your gripes into article-form, and present the readers and Linux dev. community with ways to improve upon these gripes. It’s what I do when I get sick of the same bug over and over again; I report it, or, if it’s too general to report, I write an article about it. The way you complain and complain in such a way that you only seem to do it for the sake of complaining, isn’t gonna do anybody any good.
The fact that you started your post off with “OMG HE’S INSULTING LINUX … MOD DOWN”, kind of says it all really.
—
Look, Linux isn’t without its fair share of problems. But neither is OSX, neither is Windows, neither is my all-time-favourite BeOS. Your name in itself lacks any form of comprehension of how the operating system world, and the software world in general, works. Your name would be spot-on if it said: “OSs Are Poo”, and then complain about other OS’s too. Not just about Linux. You have no credibility at this point, and there’s only one person to blame for that: yourself.
Feel free to email me if you want your name changed.
Oh, I understand that not every laptop will work with every projector … usually there’s no video signal, the video is warped, or it’s unstable … but an outright reboot of the laptop? That’s piss-poor programming.
Would you like a penny for every time something like that hasn’t worked on a Windows XP laptop and where I’ve been recommended to upgrade my video drivers as a solution, or where I’ve had to fiddle with the absolutely arcane settings of the video-out to get it to work? You can retire tomorrow if you like.
I’m sorry to break this incredible news to you, but the reason why computers and software in particular gets a bad rap is because it’s all unreliable – including Windows.
Edited 2005-11-24 21:51
I just have to laugh. Cause all Windows supporters can say is “My Windows XP laptop has absolutely no problems with projectors. I plug them in, hit a function key, and the projector turns on with a duplicate of my desktop. The same goes for my iBook. This kind of ease of use is expected of all technology in 2005/2006. Where is Linux?”
They can’t say it’s more robust, more secure, more open, more free (As in freedom not as in cost)
They can’t say that Windows is really far ahead of Linux and the funny part is that even Bill Gates dreams about GNU/Linux at night! Instead of making a better product he is trying to sell you products to fix the problems in the products he already sold you! LOL!
Give me a break!
Oh yea, hummmmmm, why if Linux sucks soooo bad does Microsoft have to have a get out the facts drive? Why don’t their produts just speak for themselves?
Edited 2005-11-24 22:06
Define “more robust” and “more secure”?
Friggin’ retarded troll. You’re going to have to try better than that. My anti-Linux trolls are much more believable.
LOLOLOL!1!!!11 LINUX IS TEH ROCKZ0R IT MAID ME A HAX0R!!1! OMGWTF LOL
Define “more robust” and “more secure”?
Errr, what Windows isn’t? You know the issues by now.
Have a read around the internet on the issues with Visual Studio 2005 and .Net 2.0 and how Microsoft is going to fix them – in the next version. You know, this is the development tool that you’re supposed to build the next generation of applications in and Microsoft has put untold resources into. Note of course that you’re not going to get that new version free nor can you do an online YaST update and get it. If they’re feeling generous you might get a service pack. Imagine that?!
Friggin’ retarded troll. You’re going to have to try better than that. My anti-Linux trolls are much more believable.
I think that about proves his point right there ;-).
Edited 2005-11-24 22:38
? So you don’t know what “Robust and Secure mean?” Why are you even on this site? LOL!
Robust, meaning better uptime, meaning that you don’t have to reboot everytime you install something or install a patch. LOL! Meaning hard to take down, even IF there is a security hole!
Secure. LOL! I don’t even have to define that, any PC user knows Windows record on security! LOL! My 7 year old daughter can tell you that cause her Windows XP SP2 PC got hosed up with spyware! I Installed Edubuntu and she no longer has to worry about that problem EVER again!
Unlike on Windows, where MS is putting out their own spyware remover (That doesn’t work worth crap) They will spend millions on that instead of spending millions on fixing Windows it’s self!
Get out the facts! Please! What facts? The facts that your bank account info may get stolen by a Keystroke logger installed through spyware? LOL! They don’t want THOSE facts to get out, that is for sure!
The clue train missed you long, long ago.
I won’t even bother with you.
So, Linux Is Poo, your true colors finally come out. Someone has the balls to present you with some real world experience, and you take the chicken shit way out by refusing to address the post. Very nice. You may turn in your keyboard and mouse on the way out the door.
If you actually read his tripe, it’s just the typical Linux fanboy anti-MS shit that I see everywhere. There’s no use trying to beat sense into asshats like him, which is why I’m not even embarking on the quest.
Real-world experience? Hah. Real-world experience is “Windows works (most of the time), Linux doesn’t (most of the time)”.
Even though I basically agree with you, I’m tempted to mod you down as well by merit of the fact that your post is clearly intended to be inciteful.
But I think if I start downmodding everyone who annoys me because they cast Linux advocates in a bad light, I’d probably have to be locked away after a week for my own sanity.
but an outright reboot of the laptop? That’s piss-poor programming.
That is strange. It reminds me of how Half-Life would cause my Windows 2000 box to spontaneously reboot if I paused twice in a row. The culprit turned out to be obsolete firmware, and I think that this is probably what happened here as well.
Note: there was nothing in my post that warranted being modded down. No offensive language, no insults, the post was on-topic (since I was responding to a post talking about an OS being spontaneously rebooted by software).
I hope I won’t be the only one honestly following the new moderation rules…
I modded you up so that this comment stands out even more. As you can see, archiesteel, the fanboys around here will mod anything they don’t like the sound of down, regardless of actual content.
At least you’re acknowledging that MS fans are as bad as Linux fans…
However, that doesn’t really apply to you, since 95% of your posts are flamebait with no actual content, just insults, attacks and misinformation.
There’s a reason you have such a large collection of -5 comments. If you stopped trolling, perhaps you’d have +5 comments more often, and without the need to resort to multiple accounts.
You can ask any of the admins here — this is the one and only account I have.
Perhaps if you and others would actually read some of my posts, rather than seeing that a post is by me and automatically modding it down, you would see that my trolling is overrated. 🙂
LIP, I do read your posts, and you are indeed trolling in 95% of them.
BTW I’m not saying that you use multiple accounts, but some astroturfers here might. And, no, there would be now way for the admins here to know this. Ever heard of IP spoofing, relays and other obfuscating techniques?
IP spoofing? Please. Any non-wannabe-kiddie-hax0r knows that it’s pretty much impossible to spoof your IP over the Internet.
And yeah, I’d really use relays and obfuscating techniques just so I can have more than one account on OSNews and fool the admins! Come now … get real. 😉
It’d be pretty easy for me to get an account on a network machine and post from there.
I don’t really believe that you have more than one account, otherwise your trolls wouldn’t always end up at -5.
That said, seeing the lengths you’re prepared to go just to piss people off over something as mundane as an OS, I really wouldn’t be surprised if you did…
Unless you’re an astroturfer, I’m curious to find out why you’re trolling. Not many friends as a child? Inadequacies at your job? One does not expend so much energy just to bitch without something seriously wrong in their background…
I simply have a lot of time, and a sick sense of humour. 🙂
and a sick sense of humour.
If that was the case, then you’d be funny. You aren’t.
Only because you’re a Linux crybaby. 🙂
I totally agree. I remember going to a presentation at my brother’s school, and it took them 40 minutes to get the projector working, on a Windows XP Pro laptop. I of course felt like screaming “F***ING TEST IT FIRST NEXT TIME” in their ears, but I restrained.
You really suck….
Windows_is_pee
Lord please! Just the fact that you have to get on here with a name like Linux is Poo and defend a piece of software made by a company that has 50 Billion dollars shows the true facts! Windows in reality no better then Linux! Only thing that gives it an edge is that hardware vendors make hardware FOR Windows and drivers FOR Windows.
Yet when all is said and done if Linux sucked for real and was not ready for business then Microsoft themselves would not have 400 Linux machines set up so they can test and copy the features (as they always do) I really would be surprised if Redhat had more then a couple of Windows machines that they use (And they would sure not be for testing and copying!)
And again this week just more of the same Windows holes and worms and bugs! All the same! Nothing new, nothing different!
I always harp on LIP for his name, but yours is no better. Aren’t you being kind of hypocritical coming on here with the name “Windows Sucks” and criticizing him for having the name “Linux is Poo”. You’re both being immature as far as I’m concerned.
Im pretty sure ur trolling
When you use a specific instance to justify that a general condition of an instance (IE saying that x hardware works for y OS but x hardware does not work for z OS and as a result z OS is Poo)
Get real man. Linux users have accepted that hardware support for some of the products out there is not that good. When hardware manufactures are making driver modules for what they are selling, they will target the largest platform.
And did you ever take a second to look at yourself. You are sitting there calling people zealots and claiming they worship linux in a blind furry in a derogatory manner….. Oh wait that is very much reminiscent of this elitist* and blind* attitude that you are so against. You obviously think that you are above linux users.
Granted you have your right to insult linux. Its part of the nature of this site for this to happen. We take the same weaknesses of said operating systems, and constantly bash it, therby diminishing the value of the OS in our minds. But expect the opposing side to slap you in the face. The linux zealots make their comments, and you snickered back. That doesnt at all put you at any level higher.
You turned a simple instance of how a projecter didnt run with linux, into some crackpot, time wasting story that has more of the intent of trolling. Therefore, you are trolling. I can recall instances where projectors didnt work for windows, and act just like you, naming myself “Windows is Poo” and parading about thinking im better then everyone who dont agree with me. But Id rather not look like an idiot.
Hey
This guy is talking about the problems Aaron J Seigo had with his laptop at the vancouver LUG.
Aaron is the lead KDE developer!
It is in his blog:
http://aseigo.blogspot.com/
Scroll down to “a foggy day in vancouver”
Cheers
he does not say what graphics chip there was in the laptop so im only guessing. but if it rebooted i have a feel that he was using a laptop that was using ati or nvidia closed drivers…
or maybe LIP just saw x.org giving up and dieing as a reboot. the screen would most likely show the raw output of a the terminal running x.org with all its diagnostics, and then maybe blink to black as the projector lost the signal…
if a laptop have a extra screen contact and the projector have a vga contact then i would suggest using those. video out can be a bitch as its handled by the driver.
a friend of mine tryed to use a old tv as a mirrored screen ones. he had to run the normal screen at a very low resolution for it to work
and i think he was using nvidia and win xp.
but i had some success setting up video out on a other friends computer, using nvidia’s own drivers and i belive it was red hat 9 or fedora core 1. it worked for the most part atleast
but that was under xfree.
still, given the development pace in x.org i would not go back just for the sake of compatiblity
hmm, got a reply to my question about the “reboot”. it did happen, but was user initiated, not automatic like what LIP claims in the original post.
allso, the chip and driver was ATI. and ATI is known for being painfully slow with updates on the linux drivers.
mix that with suse10 and good luck getting it to work.
sounds a bit like trying to get some older drivers to work with windows vista beta or something
>It is in his blog:
http://aseigo.blogspot.com/
Scroll down to “a foggy day in vancouver”<
The information about the new Xorg scares me, I am very dependent on the capability of using multiple displays/projector/tv on 2 of my systems (presentations and such). I think I will keep 6.8.2-r4 for now (need to do some research).
Edited 2005-11-25 02:51
Let me get this straight…
Linux is Poo was at a meeting about KDE… fair enough.
Aaron J Seigo, who presented knew there were other OS users there… fair enough
Aaron J Seigo thought it had a friendly audience… fair enough
LIP comes on here and tells the story, but gets loads of hassle and modding down for doing so ?
WHY ?
On this, nearly every post he makes slags of Linux or its users, so what ? it happens everywhere and on all other sites, accept it.
BUT
Actually listen to what he and others are saying. Linux can be improved all the time by using the feddback we get from others. This can be good feedback, or it can be bad. The main point though, is that we actually use the feedback.
Another thing. If Linux is Poo was actaully at a KDE meeting, means one of two things… He is actually interested in developments with others OS’s, or the TV was crap that night.
LIP comes on here and tells the story, but gets loads of hassle and modding down for doing so ?
Fair enough, as he was trolling.
WHY ?
Because of the trolling I told you !
Actually listen to what he and others are saying. Linux can be improved all the time by using the feddback we get from others. This can be good feedback, or it can be bad. The main point though, is that we actually use the feedback.
He gave no feedback. “Linux zealots” is not feedback. Sorry to get this to you, but the A. Seigo blog was actually more informative than anything that LIP said !! There, we learn that he was using Suse 10 with the still beta XOrg 7.0RC, and that Suse 9 with stable XOrg did not give him these problems. So, even if it was no feedback, A. Seigo blog was informative.
In the other hand, LIP post was trollish and did not help anybody. We actually DON’T NEED trolls that call us names, they never helped, they don’t even know what they are talking about.
He is actually interested in developments with others OS’s, or the TV was crap that night
Another BS. Going to a KDE meeting does not mean he was interested in other OS, and there are lots of other things to do when TV is crap, like games (you know, the thing that supposedly is inexistant on Linux).
There are a lot of bad reasons why a troll like him would go to a meeting related to Linux.
Linux is Poo was at a meeting about KDE… fair enough.
It’s so damn obvious that Linux is Poo didn’t actually attend that meeting but merely read Seigo’s blog and filled in a few words so he can add this little story to his list of imaginary experiences.
Do you want photos/videos?
Well that’s because Linux zealots can’t handle the raw truth. It hurts them, so they attack it. They can’t accept the fact that their perfect OS isn’t so perfect after all, so when someone complains they either attack the person’s credibility, skill level, or intelligence, and then go back to dealing with the problems of their OS, which amazingly enough they’re completely blind to.
It’s a funny world you live in where the person who attacks and insults others (you) is portrayed as the victim.
Cry me a river, you pitiful little troll.
We’ll see you at the next LUG, and we’ll see if you’re as arrogant in person as you are behind the safety of a web site.
BTW, no one here is claiming that Linux is perfect. However that doesn’t mean we have to accept out-of-context, irrelevant criticism from a known troll and flamebaiter.
Of course not, because you’re sitting under a nice and comfortable veil of ignorance. I *will* be at the next LUG, and if any retard Linux kiddie makes a cheap crack at Windows or OS X, I’ll be there to make an equally cheap (but true) crack at Linux — and we’ll see which camp handles it better.
A veil of ignorance? I think not. I use both Windows and Linux daily. I see the shortcomings of both, and I dislike trolls from either camps for the immature tools they are.
At least you admit freely that you are a troll.
I *will* be at the next LUG, and if any retard Linux kiddie makes a cheap crack at Windows or OS X, I’ll be there to make an equally cheap (but true) crack at Linux — and we’ll see which camp handles it better.
I know logic is a concept that’s quite beyond your reach, but in order for your experiment to be valid (and not a one-sided exercise in useless provocation, as is typical of your interventions), you’d have to go to a Microsoft User Group meeting and make cheap cracks as Windows everytime they make a cheap crack at OS X or Linux.
Of course, that would never happen, because they’d be more likely to complain about Windows and Microsoft themselves, since that’s usually what I hear from Windows users in the first place.
If Linux was really as bad or worse than Windows, then Linux users would criticize it as much as Windows users criticize their own OS (which is a lot, believe me). The fact that this isn’t happening should tell you something – or at least it would, if you weren’t hopelessly biased in Microsoft’s favor.
Please do us all a favor: get a job, find a girlfriend (a real one, not just the figment of your imagination) and do something more constructive with your life than trolling.
If you really believe that, then it is much too late for you already. Let me explain.
The great majority of Windows users simply do not care what anyone else is running. While they may have gripes about Windows, they’re pretty content with what they have. They don’t go on mighty jihads trying to convert Linux/OS X/Solaris/whatever users over to Windows.
Contrast this to Linux users, which almost always throw cheap cracks at Windows when talking to Windows users, and generally behave like elitist assholes. Their one and only goal is to try to convert as many people as possible over to Linux. While their methods are fundamentally flawed, that is their jihad.
Going by this, you can make two conclusions: Rabid Linux users are completely blind to all flaws in their operating system, and they will never, EVER make cheap cracks at it. While Windows users simply are users of Windows, many Linux users are religious zealots. Even if it takes 6 hours to get 3D accelerated video working on a particular video card with a particular distro, the Linux zealot will many a time proclaim the superiority of Linux, and even comment on how much better/easier that was than in Windows. This is the true flaw. They are blind to anything and everything negative about their precious religion.
It is for these reasons that Linux users will make cracks at the competition at LUG meetings, whereas Microsoft users simply don’t give a sh*t about Linux at WUG meetings.
PS: Your core argument is flawed, because I’m not even biased towards Microsoft. I use Windows, I don’t mind it, but there are many aspects of it that I despise. If anything, I’m more biased towards OS X, though I don’t have objections to publically bashing aspects of OS X that suck either.
PPS: The girlfriend *is* real. Ask Aaron Siego about the girl and three guys that came into the LUG on Monday as a group.
The great majority of Windows users simply do not care what anyone else is running. While they may have gripes about Windows, they’re pretty content with what they have. They don’t go on mighty jihads trying to convert Linux/OS X/Solaris/whatever users over to Windows.
Except on this website, that is.
Contrast this to Linux users, which almost always throw cheap cracks at Windows when talking to Windows users, and generally behave like elitist assholes. Their one and only goal is to try to convert as many people as possible over to Linux. While their methods are fundamentally flawed, that is their jihad
Uh, no. Your argument is based on the false premise that all Linux users are like that. In fact, only a small minority of Linux users are like that. Ergo your argument is faulty.
Take my own example. When I complain about Windows, I do so not as a Linux user, but as a Windows user, because the flaw in question annoys me when I have to use Windows, or when a Windows user asks me to fix their Windows installation.
The fact is that I spend a lot of time helping Windows users out with their problems, while my Linux boxes need very little maintenance (unless I’m playing around deliberately breaking things so I can learn more about the OS in the process of fixing them). THAT is why Linux users make cheap cracks at Windows: because Windows is full of these little annoyances.
If Linux was as bad as you portray it to be, switchers would go back to Windows. The fact that we don’t should tell you that, for all of its faults (and all OSes have faults), we are happier with Linux as our main OS than with Windows.
Finally, Linus users are not about pointing out flaws in their OSes. Unlike you, however, they don’t waste their time bitching about it on OSNews. They file bug reports, they go to distro forums to discuss the issues and try to help developers in resolving them.
You see, that’s the difference between creating conflict for conflict’s sake, which accomplishes nothing and is a colossal waste of time (hey, it’s your life, waste it at your leisure) and constructive criticism, which has helped make Linux a better OS over the years.
At least now you accept the fact that you’re a troll. Perhaps now we can finally get you banned so that we can enjoy some real debate around here?
I guess you conveniently ignore all of the forums, IRC channels, and mailing lists where retarded Linux kiddies constantly bash Windows/OS X with no regard to the flaws of *their* operating system, then?
Earth to archiesteel: Open your eyes. The Linux zealotry is very abundant on the Internet, and it was even abundant at the LUG meeting.
I guess you conveniently ignore all of the forums, IRC channels, and mailing lists where retarded Linux kiddies constantly bash Windows/OS X with no regard to the flaws of *their* operating system, then?
Just like you ignore the forums, IRC channels and mailing lists where OS X users bash Windows/Linux with no regard to the flaws or *their* operating system, or the forums, IRC channels and mailing lists where Windows users bash OS X/Linux with no regard to the flaws of *their* operating system.
Earth to Linux is Poo: OS zealotry is very abundant on the Internet, but that doesn’t accurately represent the attitudes of ordinary users of all OSes.
Now, to explain the obvious to you: of course people are going to bash Microsoft and Windows at LUG meetings. What did you expect? It’s their right, and it’s quite legitimate. As a regular Windows user, I’m entitled to complain about the OS when I go at a Linux User Group. It feels good to let the tension out, especially when I’ve spent a good part of the week fixing the average user’s deteriorated Windows installs.
In fact, you seem to be attacking people for the very same thing you’re doing here: complaining. Except that you complain about people complaining, which proves that you are inconsistent with your own positions, and that in fact all you strive to do is start flamewars.
Of course you have the right, but at the same time, get back to reality and realize that your shit isn’t perfect either. OS X and Windows users are generally not bad in this regard.
Linux users, on the other hand, are mostly all blind and vehemently proclaim Linux as the God-given solution to everything and for everyone.
i dont think anyone in their right mind have ever claimed that linux is the perfect os.
however, they claim that its on par with what the current market leader wants to sell to people at the moment.
“On Monday, I went to the Vancouver Linux User Group meeting at BCIT.”
Say what??
What were you doing a LUG meeting???
My good man, I think it’s time for you to come out of the closet.
I extend my trollage into real life too. I went with two friends and my girlfriend. The experience of Linux f–king up blatantly like that was alone worth it, and we’ll go again next month to see what kind of suck we can witness once more. 🙂
“I extend my trollage into real life too.”
That’s so sad and pathetic that words fail me.
It’s quite enjoyable. A nice Monday night, nothing to do, three friends available, a Linux user group meeting … party on. 😀
This went on for another half hour. He simply could not get Linux working with the projector to make his presentation. Finally, at 8:10, he got the presentation going
Deja vue – to many technical meetings at work where people come in and can’t get their Windows laptop to work with the projector.
Note that I’m not trolling,
Oh I just noticed that this post was submited by Linux Is Poo so we have every reason to doubt the veracity of it.
Hey Poo why is your website hoste on Linux servers ?
I used to host it on my FreeBSD server at home, until my ISP went all batshit-insane about it. Now I have no choice, because FreeBSD hosts are expensive. 🙁
I’ve had nothing but problems left and right with the host, but whatever.
From the stand point of an admin, the lazier the better I might add, there may not be anything more satisfying than using Linux as a desktop machine. At least that’s the way I see it. Let me explain…
I basically have one “golden machine”. Every single desktop machine I manage now installs itself automatically by contacting this golden machine. Basically every single desktop machine is just a copy of that machine. Which means I only have to update files one place and one place only, on the golden machine. So say a machine dies, I just swap in a new one and automaticlly install Linux on it. In short, life is good.
Oh, and before anyone responds about how Norton Ghost or what have you is just as good, it’s not. Or well, Windows is the real culprit. If you’ve ever tried to take a hard drive with windows from one computer to another, then you’ll know what I’m getting at.
I can’t believe this flamebaiting comment was modded up to 5. I smell shenanigans.
It’s not about being against criticism, it’s about being in favour of constructive criticism. There’s absolutely nothing constructive about Linux is Poo’s comment. It’s pure flamebait, poiting out weaknesses without putting the whole thing in context or offering suggestions to improve things.
Here’s a suggestion: Stop re-inventing the wheel and breaking stuff every 6 months. Success and support will follow.
I guess people like my comment.
Here’s a counter suggestion: don’t upgrade everything just because a new version is out. If something works, don’t updgrade just for the sake of ugrading.
As far as people liking your comments go, I suspect that some people here have more than one profile, so they can mod comments more than once.
In the Linux world, you are FORCED to upgrade.
Tell me … can you still find RPMs of new software for Redhat 7? How about old versions of SuSE? Slackware? Mandrake/Mandriva? Nope.
If you want to try new software, you are forced to upgrade your entire operating system to the latest version every 8 months or so. Sure, you can choose not to, but then you can’t install any new software.
If you want to try new software, you are forced to upgrade your entire operating system to the latest version every 8 months or so. Sure, you can choose not to, but then you can’t install any new software.
This is completely untrue. You can upgrade parts of the system (say, KDE) without upgrading other parts (like Xorg). There are some instances where you’ll be forced to upgrade, but that’s not the norm.
In the current case that concerns us, Aaron didn’t have to upgrade to the new Xorg. He chose to.
And, yes, you can find old RPMs from Mandriva on http://ftp.proxad.net.
You know, you should stop and think a little before writing, it would help you look less like a fool.
Alright. Let’s say I have Redhat 7.3 on an old machine somewhere, and I want to run the latest KDE on it.
Can you find me RH7.3 RPMs for KDE 3.4.3? Please note that I do not want to upheave half my system for this upgrade.
I don’t follow RedHat development.
However I can install a KDE 3.4.3 RPM for Mandriva on a Mandrake 9 system. Now, it may require me to update quite a few packages as well, but that’s to be expected. Can I easily install the Windows XP UI shell on Windows 2000?
In any case, if you want to use the latest and greatest KDE on your old Linux system, I’d suggest using Konstruct instead. Also, you won’t risk fscking up your system because it installs it locally (in your user directory).
Can I do that in Windows? I’d like to install the new Vista desktop on my Windows 2000 machine, but only for my current user because I don’t want to affect my Windows 2000 installation…please provide me with the simple instructions to achieve this. Thank you.
It’s funny how you twist the argument around when asked the impossible.
The Windows XP/Vista UIs are a core part of the entire operating system. Correct me if I’m wrong, but one of the core pros of Linux as reiterated by Linux advocates is that it’s all build as a modular system, and if I don’t like something, I can replace it with another — isn’t that correct?
I guess when I actually call you on this, then you twist it around and somehow bring Windows into the argument. Who mentioned Windows?
PS: Mandrake 9 is about 1 year old. I was talking about something much older. Thanks for sidetracking.
PPS: Has it occured to you that few users have the knowledge required to build a new KDE, let alone the computer power to do it quickly? Again, nice attempt at saving the argument.
I didn’t twist the argument around when asked the impossible, I just don’t follow RedHat development.
Mandrake 9.0 is more than a year old, BTW. But just for argument’s sake, it IS possible to do the same thing with a Mandrake 8 install.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but one of the core pros of Linux as reiterated by Linux advocates is that it’s all build as a modular system, and if I don’t like something, I can replace it with another — isn’t that correct?
That is correct, you can. Case in point, if the latest version of Xorg is too unstable, you can replace it with an older, more stable version, or with XFree, or with a commercial implementation of X. You don’t have that freedom in Windows, ergo Linux (or really *nix, because Linux is just a kernel) is more modular.
I guess when I actually call you on this, then you twist it around and somehow bring Windows into the argument. Who mentioned Windows?
If you’re going to fault Linux for something, then comparing Linux to other OSes to see how they fare in that area is quite legitimate.
It’s as if you said: “Linux can’t make coffee the way I want it, ergo it sucks.” The fact that no other OS can then becomes relevant. I know logic is not your forte, but re-read this paragraph a few times and you’ll eventually get it.
PPS: Has it occured to you that few users have the knowledge required to build a new KDE, let alone the computer power to do it quickly?
Konstruct is dead easy to use. The instructions that come with it are very clear.
Anyway, this is irrelevant, because I’ve already proved you wrong: it is possible to install the latest version of KDE on an older system. For your part, you’ve admitted that Windows does not possess this capability.
I guess OS X can, to a certain degree, but it’s a bit more complicated than on other types of *nix system if I understand correctly.
Maybe one day you’ll tire of just creating conflict and strife and just be content with using what you like and letting others use what they like…
You completely missed the point.
Completely.
I am a Macintosh (10.4.3) and Linux (Ubuntu 5.10 x86) user at home, and a Windows XP user at work. My Preference is with Macintosh and Linux. I will continue to run both MacOS and Ubuntu because they both have individual strengths and the tools at my disposal would be diminished if I were to give up one.
There must a compelling reason for a business to force upheaval, of any sort, upon themselves. Instead of determining the issues that compel them to stay with their current operating system, I would note that the following issues are reasons for people to migrate.
– Wasted system resources spent on defending against malware.
– Employees utilizing their computer for unintended purposes (games or other wasteful activities).
– Difficult administration.
– Vendor Lock-in, and therefore no room to maneuver during re-negotiation.
– Useful Hardware Lifespan.
– Difficult Troubleshooting.
– Stability (or the loss of productivity during reboots).
– Availability of familiar and productive software.
These are issues that would encourage any company to examine alternatives no matter what they’re using right now. Consequentially, the new product must also not have the same problems, and must have a smaller set of problems.
In the case of Windows XP Pro SP2 to Linux (take your pick of implementation), not all of these issues are addressed in a better fashion in the new than in the old. It is a point of contention as to which issues are handled better or worse, in my opinion, the strongest reasons are the issue of malware and availability of familiar software. Windows systems often spend a larger than acceptable amount of resources on the defence against malware. The amount software available for posix systems utilizing X11 is not smaller or less productive, but it is less familiar and sometimes not as mature.
sorry for borrowing the title from a tune of aerosmith, but here i am in brasil teaching basic computer courses to the locals from a local distro called famelix. my lanhouse seems to be doing pretty good too. i guess a lanhouse is a business ????
Not really sure if LInIx is meant to do bussiness.
Because in real life – if we do bussiness, we mean’t to do money grubbing stuff, company secrecy, corruption, Lawsuits etc. All this things go against the principle of open source; Sharing information, open source,transparency, giving away, free, integrity etc… hardly any concepts of marketing —- Let bussiness people push Linux for bussiness/small company. But it is best that linix does not give assurance that it means buissiness.– ($money$ root of all evil) Just go to microsoft or SUN, REDHAT, Novell . Them good for Evil.
The issue isn’t Linux nor Windows, the issue is far bigger than this. In truth, there isn’t a single solution made for small business. I have seen many small shops with Windows “solutions” that somehow seem to limp along. They are duct tape solutions waiting for something bad to happen. They are in essence playing Russian roulette with their company. Complete chaos is often the rule. Go into these small business and you will see Exchange Servers installed on the same server as Active Directory. You will see not a single firewall and not a tape backup solution within 300 feet of the company. You will see virus outbreaks on a weekly basis. These small companies are flirting with disaster. Often they ask me what they can do to fix things up. Sadly, I really don’t know the answer. I can tell them what to do, but it will take RAID Controllers, Tapes, UPS, Firewalls, Routers, Switches, a lot more computers, full-time personal, and a lot more licenses and costs than they ever imagined when they moved to digital.
I have thought about solutions to this problem that plagues the small business industry and there really is only one solution to this problem. Small business must outsource all their data and infrastructure to a company that specializes in this. In the future, I see just a whole bunch of dumb terminals attached to a virtual private network and everything else being 100% managed by some company. In this future, there really isn’t any use for “Microsoft” type solutions or even Linux desktop solutions. There is only space for Google type solutions.
Hey LIP – have a look at this – Linux/Openoffice saves
presentation for Microsoft .
http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/05/24/179227&tid=109&tid=133
The author of the original article did point out the fact that there may be software critical you your business that needs a Windows OS. A decent email client and a hald decent Office replacement may not be what your company needs. Frankly the fact that Vista is a year out means nothing to most businesses, Most of which probably still using Windows 2000. Companies don’t switch because its new, they switch because there is a need. Hardware support can be an issue if you run into (un)expected difficulty of say hooking up your printer in Linux. Or you find that in your area there are no Linux admins or you are unable to figure out how good of a admin they are.
printing in linux have seen a rise in compatiblity lately, as long as you use cups. reason my be that apple allso use cups for os x and same “drivers” can be used on both…
so, if your using a newis printer, most likely support should be there if your allso using a fairly recent (or freshly “patched”) distro. you may even be able to find drivers on the cd that comes with the printer
Its great to see these heated er discussions so we can get our true feelings out in the open. On the serious side, about two years ago we switched our business computers over to Xandros Linux and not only have we saved a pot load of money (even with a commercial distro) but our downtime has decreased and our productivity has increased. Because there is software we use that can only be found on Windows, we are using Win4lin to fill in the gap until interprising devs can produce replacements for QuickBooks and Load calculating software for the HVAC industry.
On another note, there is an insurance company that has seen our business model and would dearly love to switch. That is not possible because all insurance rating and customer base software for the insurance industry is locked into Internet Explorer and Windows.
Would we switch back to Windows? Not a chance, but not every business has that option. For now it is still a windows world for many.
Note that I’m not trolling, I’m just re-telling an actual experience at an actual Linux user-group meeting.
I’m sorry, but you are trolling, and it can easily be demonstrated by the number of times you use the sentence “Linux zealots” in a deliberately inflammatory manner.
For the record, I’ve yet to have a single problem with my laptop and projectors, or TV-out with S-Video for that matter. I’ve had a lot more problems with Windows laptops in that regards.
Trolling is deliberately trying to provoke a strong reaction in others by attacking them, their beliefs or their opinions instead of engaging in civilized debate. It’s a very negative method of communication, aimed at creating conflict. This is what you do, ergo you are a troll.
GNU/Linux is ready for business. A business just starting out has the advantage, because they can buy their hardware & install the GNU/Linux distro of their choice without having to “retrofit” any existing systems. No legacy systems to fiddle with, nothing for the end-user to unlearn; start everything fresh from the get-go.
This can also be done by a company that already has non-GNU/Linux systems deployed, but the conversion costs would be much higher, though the long-term benefits would outweigh that.
Desktop config is a pain in linux.
Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn’t. Just like Windows.
Sure I can claim otherwise and try to impress your friend with what I can do in the terminal editing files, compile x, a read howto one two three.
I’ve used Linux extensively over the past four years. I have NEVER compiled X. I pity the poor soul…
BTW, there is a terminal in Windows as well. It’s quite useful – and HowTos are great to learn more about computers, no matter what the OS is.
But thinking that configuring linux desktop is easy (multiple screen, bluetooth sync with pda/cellphone, wi-fi sharing, scanner, printer config, firewall, digital camera, etc…), is completly illusory.
I think it’s been a while since you’ve used Linux. Most of those things are trivial in modern Linux distros, especially things like Scanner, Printer and Digital Cameras. The VAST majority of these types of hardware which are configured automagically by the system. As usual, checking for compatibility is a good idea, but in 99% of cases things will work by themselves.
Firewall configuration is also dead easy using wizards or apps such as Firestarter.
As far as Wi-Fi sharing or multiple screens are concerned, it depends on whether the hardware requires proprietary drivers or not. If proprietary drivers are required, then it’s a bit harder (in which case one can only blame the hardware manufacturers), but all still quite easy with the abundance of documentation to be found on the Web. On that note, Ubuntu deserves high marks – the forums are very well organized, and the HowTos are clear and to the point.
I can’t comment for Bluetooth, since I don’t use it.
I suggest you try one of the latest Linux distributions – you might be surprised at the speed at which it’s progressing.
I can’t comment for Bluetooth, since I don’t use it.
Still not working. I’ve tried to hack together something for my phone for Ubuntu Breezy using the software that does exists. It’s doable if you’re a hacker, but don’t even dream of it if you just want to use it.
Sorry, duplicate post.
Edited 2005-11-25 01:38
From The Article
“If you prefer to deal with a consultancy-like support service, then Novell Linux Desktop 9, may be a good move, while the very corporate Red Hat Desktop 4, could prove a sensible option for companies with large numbers of desktops.”
They describe Ubuntu as the best Free Distro. Yet they forgot that commercial support for Ubuntu can be obtained from Canonical.
Edited 2005-11-25 02:14
Actually if you click on the Ubuntu link in the article you’ll notice it takes you to a review of Ubuntu Linux which does mention their support options.
I missed the link (Didn’t clicked it before)
However, failing to mention it in the article itself can still be missleading
Thanks OSNews, for linking the article. It was nice to read a review that attempted to cover several key aspects businesses would be interested in. It’s a misconception by some that the Linux community is a mess and not worth their time whether for personal needs or to satisfy their business needs. The links in the article with reviews of Novell (NLD and SUSE Linux 10.0), Red Hat (RHEL) and Mandriva (Mandriva Linux 2006) where refreshing though I’m surprized both Red Hat’s Fedora Linux and Mandriva’s Corporate Desktop were left out of the review. Also the comment regarding the editor’s choice preference for Ubuntu Linux is that it’s free is misleading due to Novell also provides SUSE Linux for free as well Red Hat with Fedora Linux.
http://www.opensuse.org/Welcome_to_openSUSE.org
http://fedora.redhat.com/
Edited 2005-11-25 04:40
I don’t know much about OpenSUSE, but AFAIK fedora is more of a beta tester for RedHat enterprise and it’s official support isn’t up to the needs of commercial users(I’m not counting fedora legacy)
Of course CentOS can be counted as a commercial quality Distro as it is Free RHEL (with different branding and trademarks).
We’ve been reading how Linux is going to take over the desktop since fvwm was new. If it ain’t obvious by now that it’s not going to happen: you must be a zealot.
“Linux suck because ________”
“Well, mister; just wait until ______ 3.4.2 comes out! That’ll fix that.
“Even if that fixes Linux, Microsoft/Congress/Space Aliens will surely _______ and that will crush Linux’s growth!”
“The new not for profit Eat Richard Stallman’s Ass (ERSA) will make damn sure that won’t happen!”
It’s been taking over the desktop for over a decade now . . .
Whatever model the Linux desktop community is using to promote/improve Linux as a general desktop OS – – – – wait for it
IS NOT WORKING
Now go the hell away and comeback when you have toys that work.
Actually, it is working.
A few years ago you could expect to get into a long discussion of what an OS is, and that Windos isn’t the only one, if you happened to mention Linux to someone.
Now you either get, “oh you’re one of those…” or “you run Linux? Yeah me too!”.
Give it a few more years and Linux will be a big player on the desktop.
If you were right, that Linux on desktop does not work, I would not by typing this answer.
“Now go the hell away and comeback”* when you have enough courage to use your name, when you say something.
* it spells “come back”
(Thom, can we disable anonymous trolls again? It was much more fun reading only comments with information in them).
Yeah, I probably won’t update to a new version of X until Dapper Drake…my X works fine, and I don’t particularly need new features right now.
I may switch to xgl at that time, depending on its stability.
currently using:
elie@anaxana:~$ sudo X -version
X Window System Version 6.8.2 (Ubuntu 6.8.2-77 20051010174819 [email protected])
What were you doing a LUG meeting???
My good man, I think it’s time for you to come out of the closet.
*golf clap*
Well played.
(He probably goes there to yell at people…)
Edited 2005-11-25 06:51
News to Anonymous:
The Linux market share has kept increasing over the years. It’s not a revolution, it’s an evolution. It takes time, but it’s irreversible. No one’s in a hurry, really.
Use what you want, but get used to MS sharing more and more of the pie with Apple and Linux. I’m more than fine with a varied computing ecosystem – unlike some MS enthusiasts, who sometimes act like only Microsoft matters. Why, they sometimes seem to behave exactly like astroturfers would…
No, it happened (see Aaron Seigo’s blog), however it is not really of any significance. After all, Microsoft’s own presentations have been known to crash, using Windows software, it just goes to show that, no matter how much computers improve, they still remain somewhat fickle things. 🙂
Anyway, right now, the big news is of course overheating Xboxes, not a projector mishap at some Linux event…
Or from the BBC news site today…
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/4466688.stm
and
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/4466016.stm
Microsoft making bad news for two reasons.
I wanted one of them Xbox 360 too. It must just be teething errors. Microsoft will release a fix soon.
And that other story just shows how the British people hate sucessfull American companies.
Go back to your commie Linsux
The first story is about XboX 360 console crashing for many different reasons and how Microsoft knew they would crash :
“Microsoft spokeswoman Molly O’Donnell would not detail how many reports the company had received but did say the calls involved a “very, very small fraction” of all the consoles sold. The volume of calls >>> [u]was in line with Microsoft predictions[/u] <<<, she said.”
which tell me they knew there was a problem.
Second story linked is : Fake FBI virus catches net users.
It as nothing to do with Americans or American Companies.
I was going to write some serious thoughts about the use of Linux on the desktop in the charitable sector, whys and wherefores. But reading the usual endless sequence of personal insults and empty invective, I decided no. Look who will end up reading it. Look how they will end up replying.
With the return of anonymous posting, OS News is getting to be a place no reasonable and mature person will visit.
Goodbye guys. This was once a useful and informative site. Deleting it from my bookmarks. Don’t bother writing insulting replies, either. I won’t see them.
Not ready for the desktop? And Windows is?
When Linux has this going on you call me!
http://www.wfaa.com/sharedcontent/dws/bus/stories/112505dnbuscptwor…
” Sober is known to only affect computers running the Windows operating system. It appears that Apple and Linux computer users have not been affected.”
As always!
Wow. A virus made for Windows only affects Windows machines? What a shock!
Get a grip. People make Windows viruses because 95% of the world uses Windows on the desktop. There are hundreds of security holes discovered in Linux software each month, but it’s far too small a market to even bother exploiting. (Plus it’s very hard to make a binary work on multiple distros!)
But don’t let that stop your irrational fanboyism, eh?
People make Windows viruses because 95% of the world uses Windows on the desktop
Actually, less than 95 % people use Windows on the desktop, but that’s irrelevant.
What I would like to know then, is why people make Linux viruses (because it’s used by less than 5 % people ?). We all know the answers and why what you say is BS, it has been debated again and again.
Your explanation just does not stand when we compare attacks on Apache (70 % of the web server market) versus IIS (less than 25 %), where IIS stilll has a far greater number of attacks.
There are hundreds of security holes discovered in Linux software each month … don’t let that stop your irrational fanboyism
When I see what you say there, I can say you have some guts really. And you dare talk about “irrational fanboyism”. Because of course, it’s not irrational to compare a security hole in gdk-pixbuf 0.22 and a worm which is spreading fast …
Please!
“People make Windows viruses because 95% of the world uses Windows on the desktop”
Get out of here, if you go to Mcafee.com and look up Linux worms and viruses you will see that almost NONE of them are rated as high! Unlike almost ALL of the Windows viruses!
On top of that last time I looked the internet is running on Linux! Most webhosting companies run on LINUX! If you really wanted to take something down why not take down a bunch of websites etc!
Sorry to say but if you could hack Linux machines so easy I am SURE that it would be a big deal and Microsoft would be ALL over it with their get out the facts crap!
Sorry to say but even if 5 people used Windows the holes would be there! It is also a fact that to use Windows YOU need virus scan (Recomended by MS them selves) You NEED anti spyware software etc! On linux you DON’T need it!
As a matter of fact let me quote one virus scan vendor:
“while a 100 percent Linux environment is orders of magnitude less likely to be hit be a virus, many Linux deployments are within heterogeneous, not homogeneous, environments. Windows clients and servers on the network bring a vast array of potential infection points, and having an antivirus engine on a Linux server will protect the health of the overall network, even if the Linux machine itself is not vulnerable.”
http://www.linuxplanet.com/linuxplanet/print/5997/
LOL! So I need to buy software for my Linux machines to protect my Windows machines! LOL! That is funny!
Those are not my “irrational” words but the words of people who want to sell me software! LOL!
The last thing I must say is that MS has 50 Billion in the bank and yet they get compared to Linux on a regular! Bill Gates is up at night with his buggy, glitchy Xboxes dreaming about Linux! That is sad!
Most people drive a “Skoda” car in Czech Republic. It still does not make it the best car available. Only the most “good-enough” one. So much for rational arguments.
I accept that Windows is good enough for most people. Let them use it! Let them have it! I have no need in Linux becoming the dominant platform. Definitely not for the sake of doing “good-enough” things instead of the technically better ones. I like it the way it is. Which does not mean it is perfect and cannot get better.
Don’t you hate arguing against someone who types twice as fast as you do? It’s bad enough that your arguments are so much weaker than mine…you’re just a glutton for punishment, aren’t you?
Good luck at that next LUG meeting…I find it really sad that you actually waste your time on this. Your life must be really empty.
As for me, it’s friday night, and I’ve got better things to do than exposing trolls, as fun as it is. I’ll be back later on to whoop your ass some more.
@Linux is poo
So you were at Vancouver and you saw with your own eyes a computer not working right. And linux was at fault. So linux is poo ?
Well after all you may be right. Okay.
This :
http://www.snabbstart.com/film/bill-faar-problem-med-demostration-a…
shows Windows not doing so well. So I guess Windows is pee or whatever term you enjoy.
It’s funny how people can see things and miss others. Quite childish. Not mentionning the name ‘Linux is poo’.
Nobody rejects what you saw with your own eyes. It happens all the time around the world on Windows, OSX and Linux.
Being pro linux doesn’t mean necesserely being a linux zealot.
Now, if you got something more constructive than ‘see there it doesn’t work ahahaha linux is poo’, go ahead otherwise find a better place to bug people.
Nah, I just took it one step further.
You say: you are forced to upgrade on Linux.
I say: not necessarily. Most of the time not.
You say: prove it.
I say: You can install the latest KDE on old Linux distributions.
You say: You didn’t do it exactly like I framed it in order to prove you wrong.
I say: I don’t care how you frame it, the fact is that your original assertion, i.e. that you are forced to upgrade in Linux, was proved wrong. I provided an example to prove that this wasn’t true, and I also gave a comparison with Windows, where a similar operation is NOT possible. Ergo, you are not any more forced to udpate in Linux than you are in Windows or Mac OSX, and Linux is more modular than Windows to boot.
You say: L1NUX USERZ ARE TEH GHEY OMG!!11!!LOLLL and then your head explodes in a puff of logic. And there was much rejoicing.
Of course you have the right, but at the same time, get back to reality and realize that your shit isn’t perfect either. OS X and Windows users are generally not bad in this regard.
Well, again it depends on whether you mean ordinary users or advocates. Ordinary Linux users are no better or worse than ordinary OS X and Windows users in that regard (well, except for the fact that Windows users are more likely to bitch about their OS than Linux or OS X users).
Advocates, on the other hand, can be polite or trollish, but by definition will criticize others OSes more than their own. In that sense, it’s as bad – no better, no worse – in the OS X and Windows camp as it is in the Linux camp.
The fatal flaw in your logic is that you lump criticism of Windows and of Microsoft together. Linux advocates are in general very critical of Microsoft, because of the constant underhanded tricks MS is pulling to target Linux (and, by extension, its users). I personally have nothing against Windows. It’s a competent OS, now fairly stable and secure. I prefer Linux but that’s mostly a matter of personal choice. In fact, it’s not even that I prefer Linux, but rather that I prefer KDE, KDE apps and some Gtk+ apps (as well as MS Office, which I use with Crossover Office). There are definitely things that annoy me with Windows, just like there are things that annoy me with Linux/OS X – there’s just a bit more of them in Windows. All in all, though, it’s not a big deal. That’s why I don’t go in Windows threads to say W1NDOZE IS TEH SUXXORZ LOLLL.
I do, however, condemn Microsoft’s monopoly, and especially the way it abuses its monopoly position in the field of computing. And I think it’s completely legitimate to do so.
Now, I think it’s time for you to drop your strawman argument. I dare you to find ONE real Linux user here who will claim that Linux is perfect. Just one.
The fact is that Linux users know their OS is not perfect, and that’s why many of them contribute back by providing bug reports, suggesting new features, and so on. That’s how excellent apps such as Konqueror, amaroK, Gimp and K3b have developed.
The progress in quality made by the Linux desktop in the past 6 years is staggering. Compare that to the progress made by Windows since 2000 and…well, I’m not as staggered.
Linux users, on the other hand, are mostly all blind and vehemently proclaim Linux as the God-given solution to everything and for everyone.
No they don’t. They don’t on this site, and they don’t on the vast majority of other websites. Sure you’ll find a small minority that do, just like you will among Windows and OS X. But that doesn’t represent the majority of Linux users, or even a significant portion of them. Enough with the strawman argument aleady!
Of course, for that you have to realize that calling someone who attacks them and their OS of choice a troll is not the same thing as saying your OS of choice is perfect.
If you can’t understand this simple truth, then of course you’ll stay stuck in your trolling loop.
Edited 2005-11-26 00:51