Some governments have embraced the potential of open source, while others seem culturally opposed to the whole concept. Deciding what lies at the heart of some countries’ almost-zealous uptake of open source is not as simple as looking at the cold, hard costs – politics, national security, anti-Americanism and innovation all have a part to play.
It’s my impression that,
Americans are generally less open to change than Europeans. We’re just now getting Americans using their computers, and asking them to change this “OS” thing they’ve never heard of is against how they typically act.
You’ll notice rapidly changing things like “fashion” end up mostly outside of the US and slowly trickle in: A fact I’m happy about in this instance, because fashion has to be the most idiotic waste of time in existence (won’t someone thing of the children … in the sweatshops
).
You’ll notice we’re slow to adopt smaller more fuel efficient cars. For one, we like our powerful cars. Another, we’re more dependant on our cars: We lack a train system, we have more highway to drive, and we live farther apart. But most of those things are only aided by better fuel efficiency; it’s just not as much fun.
We thing “new-fangled” light bulbs are junk because we tried one in 1990 and it only outlasted our incandescent by 3 fold; that just wasn’t worth it we thought.
We watch tv news… Not even BBC, but CNN and Fox (choke, cough, vomitting ensues).
I just think that in general Americans don’t like change, and it makes us slower to adopt OSS. Only businesses with raw cost comparisons and a lot of time to analyze are hyped on it. Consumers don’t want to know what it is, they just want a salesman to lie to them and make them feel better.
There are a lot of practical, yet political, reasons to use free software. Cost analysis goes out the window once your distributor is a monopoly and can set whatever price they choose and instantly require you to buy again. And there are software companies (like Quicken) doing that.
I think there’s a lot truth in your post.
You forgot one example, though: cellphones. When I moved to the US in ’99, I discovered to my dismay that the US was pretty much behind Europe in cellphone technology by about half a decade. It’s getting better, but it’s still way behind Europe (especially Scandinavia), Japan, and South Korea.
Yea, in this case I’m one of those people who wishes we were a century behind on cell phones… For all their uses they interrupt me at the worst possible times..
I think everyone is always behind Japan when it comes to consumer electronics. I don’t know where all their money comes from for all the junk they buy, but wow the stories I’ve heard about electronics in Japan…
Well, for me it was a major downer. I meant that I had to live through that insanely annoying “oh look at me as I talk as loud as I can on the cellphone in order to show off”-period twice… At least the cellphone shouting has died down somewhat the last couple of years.
Why change for the sake of change?
Windows is getting better, less malware, less viruses less of a problem.
Since Service Pack 2 most of those problems have gone away and by the time Vista gets here, this will have been improved upon.
If there is no reason to change, why change? Do you want change to make it difficult on yourself?
The article is a little misleading. “Europe” is often more of an idea than a reality, being a political term for 25 or so countries with different languages and, often, very different histories, legal systems, etc.
It’s noticeable that open source in Europe is strongest in countries with a tradition of strong and independent local government, like Spain or Germany (which of course is a federal state anyway), or with a tradition of always insisting on their own version of everything, like France. Open source is weak in a country like the UK where there is little independent local government and a national bias towards the USA. Interestingly, many of the old East European countries have little local independence left after the ravages of communism so might fall more naturally into the “top-down” camp, like the UK. But over time they could revert to stronger local government that may have prevailed before communism.
But as Bob Young of Red Hat has just pointed out, the present generation of politicians, who have little IT experience, is retiring. The new generation has much more IT experience and this is bound to change attitudes towards IT in all Western countries over the next decade or so, if Bob Young is right.
Well, on that, I don’t think there’s any question. These younger politicians were born with and grew up with computers; they’ve simply got to be more aware of how they affect society.
You forgot Poland! 😉
When I was younger, I wanted to move to America, if for no other reason than British people were narrow minded, insular, and hated change. They still are, but who isn’t? Since then, I’ve come to strongly dislike America. Not for the change it pushes but because of the type of change it pushes, and what it’s become.
I wish things were more simple, better designed, and built to last, whether it’s an OS, a piece of software, or law. The problem is, that doesn’t make anyone money. In going to far to the other extreme, we’re all choking on too much, so that even one simple change is just one change too far.
If there is a difference, and it’s just a guess here, is that in seizing life, America has become too scared of death. Europeans and most of the rest of the world are more comfortable with this, and more prepared to let one thing pass away and be replaced with another, sometimes, seizing the opportunity to kill something off because we can.
Americans tend to be good communicators, and filter out that mess. In doing so, they create a clean and safe world. A world where death is more terrifying by its absence, and fear of death is just another way of saying fear of change. Perhaps this is why America fears so many things and, perversely, ends up creating so many enemies. It loves life too much.
what was that..blah blah blahblah…? Interesting psuedo-intellectual argument for .. something I guess.., but I’m not sure what. here is the simple thing.. i have a class called intro to windows.. it isnt . its actually all about ms office. To americans .. a computer is MS office.. windows is just the engine.. they dont care what office runs on. and neither do businesses , your mom or girlfriend. Currently im just trying to figure out how im going to fudge all my homework on oo.0rg2 running on ubuntu…
…more of a resistance to corporate America trying to maintain the status quo to keep their profit margin up.
and magically corporate America will change their ways once they see it’s no longer feasible to continue doing business as usual. Can’t beat ’em, join ’em.
Can’t beat ’em, join ’em.
My impression of the US is more like:
Can’t beat foreign vendors in the marketplace? Foreign companies becoming a threat to a whole industry in the US? Well get some lobbyists, buy a bunch of politicians and change some laws, to strengthen the US position. If everything else fails, invade the country or bomb it to stone age. Case closed.
I suspect the rest of the world is grateful that we’re not actually like your perception, at least most of the time. Though if the current administration keeps on its present course…
All I have to say about some of these responses is…WOW.
One thing to consider is that sometimes the way the buisness climate is in one country is not the same as in another. Businesses don’t like change unless you can prove that it’s cost effective. And it can’t be marginal, either. It has to be a big cost savings in order to consider a cahnge.
Also, in the US (not “America”) it’s not the job of governments to force the use of open standards. The US does not normally pass laws stating OSS must be used. There is nothing wrong with making sure when an eval is done that all options are considered as the most efficient system will be to the advantage of the taxpayer. However, to force by law to use system A or system B is just as wrong as using vendor lock-in techniques.
However, to force by law to use system A or system B is just as wrong as using vendor lock-in techniques.
Yes but the point is that by using proprietary Software they would do just that!. By forcing to use open source software they don’t focus on any vendor or system A or system B. Everyone can offer solutions based on open source software (even Microsoft if they choose to do so, they chose not to, and locked themselves out of the competition—their problem), also they make sure that when using open and documented file formats that everyone (the people!) can read these formats with any software they like. After all if the format is open making software that can open these formats is possible for every programmer.
So by saying forcing people to use this or that system is wrong you actually demand that everyone should use open source software, and open file formats GIVING YOU THE CHOICE to use whatever programme, vendor or operating system you prefer.
Q.E.D.
I am a UK citizen, born and bred, however, I did serve 8 years with the US military.
Over the past load of years, I have noticed a culture switch from the UK government to be more like the US. I do not like it one bit.
I was an early adopter of the internet, having used it in my military background, and I was on it when the www was being born.
The web was a wonderful place then, full of “REAL” free stuff and no batant out and out advertising, and NO FLASH anywhere. It was a good place to be.
ANYWAY
US companies forced their adverts onto everyone, offering “free goodies”, yeah, free with a catch, and flash all over the place, pop up, and it has got to be as bad these days of having major international corporations installing spyware onto OUR PRIVATE computers.
US citizens are being dumbed down by the Bush administration by this so-called war on terror… A war that no country can ever win, just by the nature of terrorism..
But the US citizens are being made to believe that ALL decisions their government makes are good and should be adhered too..
Tony Blair is trying to do the same thing to us in the UK. However, tonight, he was defeated in the house of commons for the first time, so not all UK people want to be lead into becoming just another US state.
NOW….
The point of my rant was this….
Most European governments enjoy their own independence. They have their own corporations to support, and they do not want foreign countries/companies spying on them, in their own workplaces or their own homes.
US citizens, mod me down if you do not like what I said here… but never forget, it was people like me who bled for people like you
>US citizens are being dumbed down by the Bush administration by this so-called war on terror… A war that no country can ever win, just by the nature of terrorism..
But the US citizens are being made to believe that ALL decisions their government makes are good and should be adhered too.. <
I agree with much of your post but the above statement seems a little out of line. I don’t think you give Americans enough credit, we are educated people and capable of making our own decisions, there is no “being dumbed down”. People believe what they choose to believe, not what the government tells them to believe.
Don’t get me wrong here, I don’t think you meant the comment to be offensive, but I think it may be taken that way by some.
I did not mean it to sound offensive. I meant to make the point that the US government is pushing and pushing with the “war on terror” but expecting the US citizens to believe they can win it.
The media is making the whole thing out to be as simple as black and white, that the US and allies are the good guys and Iraq/Iran/Afganistan/Jordan/Al Quaeda/Bin Laden/ are all the bad guys, and automatically, the good guys will prevail.
It is not, and can never be a standard conflict. You cannot send an army in to destroy terrorism, because, terrorists always are covert and mingle with normal people.
What are you watching, Fox?
Maybe he isn’t, but the problem ist far too many people are watching Fox and CNN and buy the bullshit there as the truth, they think that’s how things are. Whereas they might as well take the Cartoon Network as their news channel an might even find more truth about human nature there than at CNN and their brethren.
I did not mean it to sound offensive. I meant to make the point that the US government is pushing and pushing with the “war on terror” but expecting the US citizens to believe they can win it.
You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about and it’s best you do not speculate on what America thinks because you do not have the first clue.
Honestly, I was expecting a complete and unreasonable flame of the US but there have been some good posts so far.
Are you reading the same posts I am? It’s the same collection of ignorant Europeans spouting off about a country the have never been to, a people they have rarely met and a culture they will never understand unless they live in the states. Coupled with the same old self hating Americans agree with the ignorant Europeans so that they can feel like they belong. It really is a pathetic display.
I don’t see the difference between vendor lock in from proprietary software and OSS software projects that someone decides to not develop for anymore. Even with the source it is obviously not cheaper to hire a team of developers to change the code to support a business operation. Ultimately a custom software creation makes sense only to those that created it. Once they leave the company you who do you call for support? Packaged OSS like RedHat Enterprise is the types of OSS that make sense in a business and as far as cost don’t provide a unique advantage over commercial proprietary solutions when it comes to ROI.
>Most European governments enjoy their own independence.
Yeah, that is why we created the European Union. Sorry, but the European Union basically means giving up national independence. EU burocrats already control our laws in many cases and this will only get worse in future. The European elites (not most of the people necessary) have largely abandoned nationalism. Probably because of bad historic experiences and because the European concept of “nation” (which is based on ethnic and culture) is incompatible with the modern, liberal, multi-cultural reality.
>They have their own corporations to support, and they do not want foreign countries/companies spying on them, in their own workplaces or their own homes.
“Their own corporations”? On which planet do you live? The market is controlled by the same global megacorps everywhere. For example you will buy your food from Unilever, Proctor & Gamble, Nestlé etc. all the time doesn’t matter if you shop in an American, a German or a Danish super market. I can also ensure you that people around here run around in Nike sneakers, Levis jeans, Hilfiger jackets etc. just like in the US. And even the Chinese have started drinking Coca Cola by now. Really, never heard of that “globalization” thingy?
And Microsoft is not “American” BTW. The global megacorps have no national loyalities and they sell AND produce world-wide. Windows isn’t “Made in America ™”. It’s made in America and India and Israel and China and …
And despite what some major hateful idiots think not even the Coca Cola (the prime example of an “American” product) you buy in your local supermarket is made in America. The Coca Cola company usually builds production lines in / close to every new market. I’m quite sure Chinese drink Coke Made in China for example. In fact the Coca Cola company is not even owned by Americans. It’s traded at the stock exchange so it’s probably owned by Europeans, Arabs, Asians and Americans etc. just like Microsoft by the way… Boycotting Microsoft means boycotting Indian programmers and Arab shareholders. You hateful anti-3rd world racist!
Oh if only macromedia would go under tomorrow and software like flash were banned for eternity …. *sigh*. I wouldn’t with bad things upon Macromedia had they not made the play menu entry disable-able.
“A war that no country can ever win, just by the nature of terrorism.. ”
This is the third one of those we’ve had:
1950’s: War on Communism (ie, end of the first ammendment for a while)
1960’s: War on Poverty
2000: War on Terror.
We seem to have a knack for it, I attribute it to our consumer nature in which we tend to fall for “super-salesmen” who promise more than anyone should ever believe. And we ignore people with rational ideas.
That said. I do think some of the “War on Terror” things have been overall wise. Allowing people like Saddam to exist in office anywhere is just not right. I don’t care if it’s legal or not to remove him, it’s wrong not to (morally speaking). I’m saddened that the world waited as long as it did. You can’t get every evil man, but you can go after the ones which bomb their own civilians.
However, you may want to look at some of the recent news stories about the UK’s terrorism issue: It’s terrorizing its citizens with things like 2 month (if that passes) holdings without a trial while they examine your hard drive. Reading one of the stories about that made me glad to be here, and not in the UK. I thought we had it bad here!
“US citizens, mod me down if you do not like what I said here… but never forget, it was people like me who bled for people like you”
Don’t do that, it’s not cool. Never insult the contributions of others to society by telling them the greatness of your own… It’s conceited, rude, and most of all condescending.
Honestly, I was expecting a complete and unreasonable flame of the US but there have been some good posts so far.
I would like to point out a difference between European Society (whatever that term entails) and the Society of the US. European governments are much more active in their citizens’ lives, whereas American government has traditionally had a more diminished role. Whether you feel one method is better than the other is completely irrelevant.
This difference can be seen in the many posts of this website, as these countries’ citizens have come to expect certain things from their respective governments. So the ‘philosophical division’ on the adoption of Open Source by European governments and the US may be simply a result of the traditional level of participation these governments engage in. Whereas Europeans may be comfortable with their parliaments ‘choosing’ Open Source, I (as a US citizen) would find it highly uncharacteristic of the US to make any such choice, Open Source or not.
One of the problems of being modern-minded is that you can quickly lose your edge once you settle on something new for a certain price. Such is the case of the Dutch government. Very eager to keep the Netherlands modern and up-to-date, an informatisation wave swept through the entire government a couple of years ago. Thing is, it was in the age of Corel Linux, and an otherwise lack of mature Open Source distros, so everyone is running Windows computers now. And there’s really no political awareness of open source at all it seems; people are having trouble enough integrating with eachother’s indepentently ‘informatised’ systems.
The aforementioned issue of small governments using up their budget for fear of losing it, is something else governments around the western world should work on. If that happens, if government employees were to be rewarded for significant cost-cutting, then adoption of free software shall increase significantly. It’s insane to think that people opt for proprietary systems (costing Macedonia $300 per seat!!!!) while there’s plenty of costless alternatives. Consider that the average government employee is too IT-ignorant to fix simple Windows programs, and that professional ITers are paid to be flexible and learn about new systems anyway.
What would help would be IBM/Redhet/Linspire going to governments before Microsoft reaches them and give them an ‘offer they can’t refuse’.
Just remember not everyone in America supports the direction this country is heading which is toward either facism or socialism depending on who is in control and in either case leaves us with less freedom. There is a freedom movement here, although whether or not it will succeed in producing change is unknown. No one here cares about politics, only half of Americans vote and only 40% of those who vote understand what they are voting for and the other 60% who vote just believes whoever tells the best lies.
I can’t say anything about US, but (like noted already) EU has no unite policy about open source.
What happens here in Estonia, for example?
Being incorporated into Soviet Union for many years, we are currently on halfway evolving into really democratic and independent country (whatever this does mean). In other words, our politicians are clear subject to corruption. Because we’re small country, even MS retailer can affect political decisions.
We have Estonian Linux project, which is currently almost stopped due to the lack of money. One thing is voluntary translating various OS components, another is making local distribution for schools, including help and tutorials, support etc etc – the latest needs money.
I’ve no clear understandig, is this project oriented to educational institutions or is just project per se; for sure it has no relation with software, used in government and state structures.
Up to last year our representatives in EU voted for software patents – but last time they were against them. I’ve no imagination, who paid for that:)
Our government has made some contract with Microsft to allow rent MS software (OS+Office) almost for nothing for schools. Again this is not official policy, just particular project (and you all know very well, why MS offers their software for educational purposes for nothing).
Conclusion – Estonia doesn’t have any official policy, related to open source (or software in general), at all.
Does Estonia have its own language, or just a different dialect of Russian or something?
I’m not estonian but, yes, they have (fino-uhgorian language group). Besides, they have a large russian speaking population and i’d say some sort of segregation applied to them…
I think it has more to do with the influence of special interest groups that lobby for big proprietary companies that fear Open Source, or just don’t want to change.
I didn’t notice that I had typed in your URL by accident. Please, by all means, make sweeping generalizations about the U.S., its citizenry, and its enterprises. People in the U.S. are slow to change, especially with respect to taste in movies, music, video games, television shows, slang, portable music players, video formats, adoption of computers, shopping habits, consuming foreign arts and cuisine, and probably a huge number of other things. On top of that the U.S. has so little to do with free software development that it’s almost shameful.
When will the U.S. catch up to the enlightened European countries and adopt Open Source in government?
This article and the majority of these comments are all flamebait.
what was that..blah blah blahblah…?
Somebody needs to be taught some manners.
There’s been some really good observations and self-criticism in here. My big theory is we’re all, to some extent, insane as individuals and societies. Eliteism and control, when taken to an extreme, can be just as harmful as dumbed down freedom. We can all lose our way but, in the long-haul, individuals and systems tend to self-heal if given the chance.
America is a badly broken country. The American dream, lone cowboy, wild west mentality is a myth, if it ever existed, and the pigeons are coming home to roost. It’s created big companies that have too much influence, shallow salesmen who never tell the whole story, and a desperate and expanding underclass who can never pedal fast enough. It’s a simplistic and scared child that’s too big for its age.
A shared history and language has provided an open door for American politicians, businessmen, and culture to influence Britain, as it’s the easy option. Like Americans, we’ve been seduced and dazzled by the image. It’s provided some benefit, but increasing division, short-termism, and a more shallow society are the price we’re paying for that. I may be a British citizen, but change like this has made me an alien in my own country.
I’m going to take a gamble and say that many of the problems we’re sharing is down to the increased sophistication and power of sales techniques, and a largely passive population that is being taken advantage of. Advertising promises easy answers, no problems, and will stop at nothing to get below peoples radar. Fear and greed are the most powerful tools in the toolbox, and they use it mercilously.
If there’s one thing I could suggest that might improve the lot of Americans and make it less irritating to the rest of the world, it would be to place greater restrictions on advertising in all its forms, whether it’s political lobbying, cold-calling businessmen, or advertsing boards. The world is more interesting, educational, and entertaining than any faux reality. Give yourself a chance by giving the world a chance.
As a political science major emphasising in Foreign Relations I love it when international forums such as this turn to political philosophies and what everyone thinks about different countries, their cultures, politics, and how that affects everyone else in the world. I think one big problem in America is that people here forget that there are people, you know other human beings who should have just as much value as any American, out there in a world that despite major advances in technology seem to be as divided and primitive as ever. I hope that we begin to spread the ideas of classical and modern liberalism across the world you know universal suffrage, democratic republics, freedoms of speech, expression, association, and religion. We should support all democratic revolutions despite whether or not they are pro-western because as long as they are self-governing and everyone has the right to vote eventually people will earn their rights.
As a political science major emphasising in Foreign Relations I love it when international forums such as this turn to political philosophies and what everyone thinks about different countries, their cultures, politics, and how that affects everyone else in the world.
Sounds good.
I think one big problem in America is that people here forget that there are people, you know other human beings who should have just as much value as any American, out there in a world that despite major advances in technology seem to be as divided and primitive as ever.
Uh, oh.
We should support all democratic revolutions despite whether or not they are pro-western because as long as they are self-governing and everyone has the right to vote eventually people will earn their rights.
Oops.
So many good rational well thought out views. I was born in the Estados Unidos. That is what my Hispanic friends call the U.S.. They say everybody in North and South America is American. They have a good point and they are in large part right. They are doing most of the manual labor in the U.S. now. Just as immigrants to the U.S. always have. My boss is a second generation immigrant. His parents worked hard and he works hard. His son is in College.
America and the whole world are going thru a sea change now. Jimmy Carters new book centers on Fundamentalism, both Christian and Muslim. It is definitely worth a read. He say’s Bush is a Fundamentalist even as Bin Laden is.
The U.S. had regional elections this week and it was the worst showing for Bush’s Republican Party since 1994. The U.S. people are slow to react but I think they are steadfast when they can figure out what to do.
Fundamentalism is a big problem for all. It is my single biggest wory. I wish everybody would try to read Jimmy Carters definition of Fundamentalism and why it is so important at this time.
Fundamentalism is a big problem for all. It is my single biggest wory. I wish everybody would try to read Jimmy Carters definition of Fundamentalism and why it is so important at this time.
Jim Carter? LOL the single worst president of the United States? Not to mention meddling idiot in foreign affairs he has no business in. I wouldn’t read a children’s book published by him.
The shock that everyone is experiencing from the Bush administration is mainly due to Bush being a principled man. This is something people in US and world haven’t been exposed to for a long time so they have forgotten what it is like. They are used to the so called leaders like Clinton, who swayed which everyway the wind was blowing that day and tried to be everyone’s friend. I am not here to defend Bush he has made some mistakes but at least right or wrong he sticks by his decisions and follows through like a true leader. To make the moral equivalence between the bush administration and Islamo-facist fundamentalism is very offensive to say the least and completely inaccurate at best
“At least right or wrong he sticks by his decisions”
I know you probably didn’t mean to, but you seem to be saying that sticking by a wrong decision is a good thing. I don’t think it is.
Wrong is a matter of perspective.
>My impression of the US is more like:
>Can’t beat foreign vendors in the marketplace?
>Foreign companies becoming a threat to a whole
>industry in the US? Well get some lobbyists, buy a
>bunch of politicians and change some laws, to
>strengthen the US position. If everything else
>fails, invade the country or bomb it to stone age.
>Case closed
This paragraph pretty much shows that there are dumb people all over the planet Earth. You thought rednecks only lived in the south of the US? well now you know the truth.