“LG3D LiveCD is an interesting project incorporating Sun Microsystems’ Project Looking Glass – a Java-based technology that attempts to bring a richer user experience to the desktop and applications via 3D windowing and visualisation capabilities. The newly released version 2.3 is considered to be the project’s first stable release. Based on SLAX ‘Popcorn’, but enhanced with Firefox, Gaim, working NVIDIA graphics driver, and copy2ram support, the live CD boots directly into a great-looking 3D desktop with many interesting capabilities (see this document for hints to navigate the 3D workspace).”
I saw a Project Looking Glass demo on TechTV I thought it looked good. Now here’s a chance to try it. Pretty cool. I’m wondering though, is it a resource hog? Heavy requirements? I looks like it would be heavy on the RAM/CPU. Anyone out-there tried Looking Glass on their *nix system yet? Any info would be welcome.
/2 Cents
I tried the livecd, and it was understandably choppy, but the animations seemed to be pretty smooth (GeForce FX 5200). Java and Xorg combine to use about 70% of both CPU (Athlon XP 2600+) and RAM (512MB). Not exactly light, but not as heavy as I expected, given the Java underpinnings and 3D requirements.
The menu system had a bad tendency to ghost, so it basically rendered itself unreadable, sadly.
From what I understand, Looking Glass did and still dose a lot of what X.org dose now. So they could probably lighten the load a lot sometime in the future by making Looking Glass use what X.org provides, instead of their own.
But that will probably not happen until a while after X11R7 comes out and becomes the standard and that is assuming the people wanting to port Looking Glass to Windows just go away.
Looking Glass did and still dose a lot of what X.org dose now.
does not dose
I tried the livecd, and it was understandably choppy, but the animations seemed to be pretty smooth (GeForce FX 5200). Java and Xorg combine to use about 70% of both CPU (Athlon XP 2600+) and RAM (512MB). Not exactly light, but not as heavy as I expected, given the Java underpinnings and 3D requirements.
And this is why it won’t catch on except with die hard Java fans. Why should the system consume so much resources while idling, why does Sun find this acceptable? What happens when you want to run a word processor, or better yet, an image editing app? Or how about both at the same time?
IMO, a system that hogs resources like that is broken. Memo to Sun, fix it!
well. who said it is consuming CPU in idle mode?
It did on mine. All I had open was an Xterm window running top and just left the mouse hanging around in one corner of the screen (so the wallpaper did its drifting trick).
> And this is why it won’t catch on except with die
> hard Java fans. Why should the system consume so
> much resources while idling.
A: It doesn’t hog resources while idling. At least not on my system.
B: And this is for both the original comment and the response, the days where you could critisize Java for being slow are gone. So please get over it. I notice virtually no speed difference on my system between graphics intensive OpenGL applications written in C++, and those written in Java. With a decent 3D video card, 40 to 60 frames per second from graphics intensive 3D games written in Java is entirely possible.
alot of 3d applications are written for the 3d card oppposed to the cpu, as much as 80% sometimes, so by using a faster language, c/c++ asm your owning speeding up 20 % of the code, so you wouldn’t notice much of diffrent.
Awsome looking desktop.
Be sure that you don’t use the download link on the lg3d site, it seems to still be pointing at 2.2. Grab it right from the project file list.
( http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=144229 )
Given all the attention and praise Looking Glass has been getting I thought it would be something good and well planned. Well, it certainly made me very dissapointed.
Could someone please enlighten me on what the purpose of this desktop is? To me it’s just a usability hell in 3D. Just another of those “let’s take the regular windowed desktop and turn it into 3D with some flashy animations”-projects that doesn’t really have any innovating thoughts behind it. There’s not one single improvement from the desktop I have today from what I can see. In fact, it was probably my worst user experience ever (and that includes WinME).
Worst of all, it doesn’t even look good.
So seriously, what is planned further down the road? What is the big advantage that will make me want to use it?
I agree, this thing looks pretty sad. Very rinky dink its more “LOOK THREEEEE DEEEEEE” with no thought to actual usability.
Don’t expect a good well thought out 3d desktop interface until Apple does it.
OS X does a lot more, a lot better with only 2d. And their icons and everything actually have some quality.
This is sad
Agreed. No usability, no design and to be just as I expected from Java app resource hungry. Being proactive on desktop (aka. swithing windows, changing background, start some apps) for 3 minutes and whole thing consumed every bit of RAM. After that one frame per 2 seconds was all I got. First two minutes it was snappy as anything.
It is just as I thought about Java (or any other managed platform with sloppy memory) desktop trying to be fancy. Maybe someday but not in this century.
On the rest of the comment
Just what we needed, another Steve Jobs PR machine.
Apple sucks with 2d. Timelags are killing me. Every action on desktop has timelag (on G5). Except the Expose nothing is instant (and Expose is something I don’t use). Mouse sucks (talking about default pointer speed, etc settings).
You maybe don’t expect that, but instant click reaction is something I have on any other system even older MacOS.
Icons had quality (that is HAD, not HAS, as in the past). Mac always had nice custom icons, now this photoicon style just hasn’t got previous class or charm anymore.
I think the purpose at this stage is more about providing an experimentation and research platform.
So seriously, what is planned further down the road? What is the big advantage that will make me want to use it?
Unless things have changed, it’s a tech demo.
It is not intended to be used, just give folks ideas on what is out there and what is possible.
If you don’t agree, then answer my question instead of modding me down. It was an honest opinion and an honest question. I seriously don’t see the point of Looking Glass.
OS X … prettier, lighter, and 100% usable.
Seriously … with the exception of the fact that it’s got some 3D-ness going on, that shit is butt-ugly. And it runs on Java.
Meh. Probably more around 50% usable.
-bytecoder
It runs dog slow in Fluxbox and is unusable on anything older than 3 years unless you go with kernel graphics. The pointer does not reliably follow the mouse due to system resource hogging. In Fluxbox, not KDE 3.4.3.
Having built my own variant of SLAX 5.0.6 recently, the only useful part of this distro is the Java.mo should I ever need it.
BTW, living an hour away from the Grand Canyon, no one here uses it as a desktop. It’s too damned busy visually, and that underscores what others here are saying.
There have been several earnest suggestions for 3D variations on the desktop, starting as early as six years ago. None of them are present in this mess. I have friends working at Sun (or rather, laid off by Sun and then rehired as consultants for lower pay and no benefits) and they must be groaning at this attention whoring. SymphonyOS was a better concept for rethinking the desktop metaphor.
Hmm, I’m sorry to tell you this, but SymphonyOS is most certainly not a good concept. If anything, it’s a step in the wrong direction.
-bytecoder
windowmaker is the best window manager. f–k 3d.
Useless eyecandy … 3d desktop.. pff! ridiculous
Seems SUN has done do more in little time.If you spend a lot behind your PC it’s somewhat becoming your home.What’s so bad with feeling at home with a nice looking 3D desktop?
I like the panoramic wallpaper view.When you right-click all open windows get 3D stacked.Apparantly MS has scooped that one.
Of course we don’t need a 3D desktop,most of us don’t need computers,playstations,smartphones either you could say.I would say 3D looking glass is a good looking gadget,and has some ergonomic benefits.
I really don’t mind if it takes 70% of resources
while I’m, using it. Just as long as it is as fast
as any other desktop OS while I want to do my work.
And remember guys it’s a preview, theres no point
in optimizing performance yet if the ideas get
tossed anyway…
it works! and it’s awesome
…when apple or MS start copying it, i bet i’ll read enthusiastic comments
seriously, why all those negative comments? this is almost a “preview” and it’s already looking gorgeous. this is not just useless eye-candy, the 3d desktop feels “alive” and natural to use.
i’d expect some esthetic refinements though 😉
..the bugs are worked out. It only used 25% of my cpu with a amd2500 1gig ram and geforce6800, however the mouse was unusably slugish.
Yea I don’t see it being more usable then a normal desktop, heck it may even slow you down if your goal is to do as much work as you can in a short period of time. However there is room in this world for eyecandy. It gave me a feeling like I was useing a computer out of a sci-fi movie.
Not everyone uses their computer for nothing but work, and if this desktop doesn’t prevent things from running i.e. games, then whats the problem. Heck it might turn into the so called killer-app for desktop linux.
If you think eyecandy isn’t enough to drive someone to a product think http://www.apple.com they brought themselfs from neer death by focusing on aesthetics
It still has a long way to go, and we may never see it finished or released to the public, but it has potential at least to be useable
It’s using that much RAM because it copies itself into RAM, you stupid f–ktards. Ever heard of copy2ram, you useless idiots? A leaking toilet stinks less than your brain. If some of you notice high CPU usage it’s because of some bug in this ALPHA version (or maybe because you’ve got shit in your head, that would certainly make you see things).
Thank you for saying this. I nearly died laughing when I read this!
I’ve always thought people are reinventing the wheel when they talk immersive 3D environments. I wonder why no one has thought to use a very well written 3D game engine as a desktop starting point like the Unreal or Quake Engines. Those engines handled 3D VERY well and were optimized for performance.
I mean how hard would it be to add a dll/lib with system specific calls? For the desktop you make a ‘BSP/level’ with a fixed camera. Viola interactive 3D desktop environment. Then just add fixed objects relative to the camera for “icons”. Just a thought.
I tried it and was blown away by the innovative ideas. I think you need about 30 minutes of tinkering with it to really see what it can do (unless you bother to read documentation first
). Click on the ? question mark icon on the “taskbar” and you’ll get some ideas.
Very, very impressive for early-stage ideas.
wow, this is really nice.
this is thinking out of the square and it look awsome.
great job.
Hopefully we will se this in production in a while.
Not to choppy for me (p4 2,8) 512 ram 64 mb nvidia.
Come on, all those negative replies.
It’s still in very very alpha phase, and really it’s not a resource hog.
Watch the proof of concept demo video, Jonathan runs it on a notebook and it’s freaking fast.
Only, they didn’t continue with the proof of concept version, they started all over again so that’s why it isn’t perfected YET, but it will.
About the usability, of course they keep that in mind.
You should read the LG3D forum more often to find out.
3D Desktops are the future, I hate that 2D crappy windows taskbar, I can never find the Window I want to work with when I have 30 Windows open, I think this desktop can solve that problem and more problems we have with current 2D desktops.
I think LG3D looks beautiful, workability is important but eyecandy does a lot too.
It’s great to work with a desktop that looks great by itself, you get higher productivity.
First think before you post comments please.
Ok, I downloaded LG3D, burned it on a CD-ROM and booted off the CD-ROM. After about 2 minutes, I had the system working, *BUT* it is almost unusable on my dual-core Opteron with 2GB RAM memory! it is very slow, and the cursor keeps jumping after around 2 seconds delay when you move your mouse. I launched OpenOffice.org, when trying to type, text appeared after several seconds…I’ve thought for a moment that my computer had frozen because it didn’t answer any Ctrl-Alt-Del or mouse movement for around 10 seconds.
Now, in terms of usability, it’s a real disappointment, it is so different from other windows managers that you don’t know where things are, right-click does nothing, etc.
Graphics are damn ugly: images and fonts are jagged, the cursor arrow is pointing to the bottom (looks upside-down). Colors are ugly too, background wall papers are dull.
What’s the point?
Same problem here on a Xeon CPU, reminds me of PearPC running OS X, argh….
a simialr idea implemented moslty by squeak
http://www.opencroquet.org/
To the people running Xeon and Opteron, do you have 3D capable video cards on them?
This is a 3D desktop.
To those who have been saying that it is slow, this is almost certainly because of lousy OpenGL support in your video cards.I have seen Sun demo this system live on a 2.6 Ghz Opteron with a decent 3D video card, and it is totally smooth. No jumpiness at all. Animation when flipping windows is totally smooth, etc.
Croquet goes a long way beyond Looking Glass though. It’s about collaboration in a shared 3D environment, not just adding 3D eye candy to a standard 2D desktop.
… in Windows Vista new <Alt>+<Tab> window switching functionality … http://www.extremetech.com/slideshow_viewer/0,1205,l=&s=25501&a=126…