A short while after the report of the appearance of Microtel PCs with LindowsOS pre-installed at Walmart.com, both Walmart.com and Lindows were claiming that LindowsOS “delivers the stability of UNIX with the ease of Windows and the ability to run most Microsoft programs.” Today, that last phrase has gone missing and there is no more talk of running any programs designed for Windows, let alone Microsoft products. Our Take: Oh, they realised that WINE can’t run all Windows apps because not all the Win32 APIs are public? Why did it take them more than one year to realise this?
LindowsOS Backs Off its Claim to Run Most Windows Apps
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Eugenia Loli
Ex-programmer, ex-editor in chief at OSNews.com, now a visual artist/filmmaker.
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They may have removed the mention of it in their advertisements, but they do mention it in their faq.
http://help.lindows.com/cgi-bin/visitors.cfg/php/enduser/std_alp.ph…
perhaps microsoft have been pressuring them in one way or the other? It isn’t considered good marketing tom include the name of your #1 competition in advertising either.
My second point is probably the most valid…
what do you guys think?
maybe lindows has realized that yes, they have a good dream, but a) it is a beta product and b) it is a beta product.
-Michael
>>Oh, they realised that WINE can’t run all Windows apps because not all the Win32 APIs are public? Why did it take them more than one year to realise this?<<
…because they are IDIOTS? No one has been able to duplicate it in how many years (7?). Because it is a MOVING TARGET. Win32 today is not what it was even 2 years ago, and it is largely undocumented. Morons.
Prediction : These Wal-Mart pieces of crap with a sub-par version of linux installed on it will be as big a commercial flop as the e-Villa or the Global PC (remember that gem? – a brand new 486 running GEOS in the year 2000).
Sorry to break it to you, but Joe and Mary six pack don’t want linux. They don’t want Windows either – they NEED windows. Good lord, I teach reasonably intelligent MCSE students (no it’s not an oxymoron) and CCNP students how to use/administer linux and it confuses the hell out of them.
Try troubleshhoting with Bubba, who can’t understand why his new retail box version of Office XP won’t install at all on his computer. Most of these peopl can’t tell the difference betwee their operating system and the office suite they use, or even versions of Windows (ever heard anyone refer to it a Millenium / 2000?)
Envisioned support call :
“I caint get this here office XP to set up right my computer. My uncle/brother Jim Bob bought that same thing down at the Wal-Mart and it worked fer him just fine”
“Oh I see here that you are running Lindows”
“Yep I got Winders on my computer”
“Um no sir, you have Lindows.”
“Duh, thats wot I just told ya. Winders”
“Sir, your computer is running LINDOWS. It’s a Linux-based operating system that was designed to run most Windows programs right out of the box using WINE.”
“Wine? Only fags and queers drink that sissy crap. Are you try to call me a fag or sumthin? Cuz I drink Busch Light right from the can. And what’s what i’m drinkin this mornin got anythin to do with wy this here Office wont set up on my Winders?”
“Sir your not using Windows, you are using Lindows”
“Course I’m using Winders. Every time I open up sumthin, why theres a Winder. So I MUST be using Winders you Mo-ron”
…ad infinitum…
They are afraid that one st00pid granny customer will sue their ass off if the thing doesn’t run the desired apps as advertized… plain and sinple.
They KNEW from the start that Lindows would NOT run (with ease) any greater amount of Windows apps than anything before it.
They made the claims for PUBLICITY. Guess what? IT WORKED.
> Today, that last phrase has
> gone missing and there is no
> more talk of running any programs
> designed for Windows
About time too. Not to kill a new idea, but can anyone explain why anybody would need Lindows?
If you want to work in Linux, get Linux. If you need word or excell, and can afford the cost of Lindows, get Windows and do some real work.
I can understand the WINE -as a hobby for curious people who like to toy with technology. But lindows as a productivity tool? Haa!
i am no Windoze fan by a long shot, but my experience with Wine only showed me that Windoze apps run better in their native enviroment…
if you are going to run Windoze then run windoze…
If you want to run Linux then just run Linux apps and forget Windoze, trying to mix Windoze with Linux just wont work very well…
“Wine? Only fags and queers drink that sissy crap. Are you try to call me a fag or sumthin? Cuz I drink Busch Light right from the can. And what’s what i’m drinkin this mornin got anythin to do with wy this here Office wont set up on my Winders?”
Damn that was funny. You made my day
That’s no fun, thats reality.
People annoy the crap of out me when our tech support guy is in vacation, coz I gotta do his job for the time. I swear, if they would stand in front of me, it’d beat them to death. On a sidenote, we’re a wholesales that sells only to companies or magazines, of whose you’d assume they got atleast ONE smart guy. Hell, some PC Repair Service (!) called once and complained why his 1.26ghz P3 wouldn’t run in a CUV4X (Tualatin + Coppermine mobo == no go). You’d assume that guy should know what he holds in his hands, but noooo……
Win32 today is not what it was even 2 years ago, and it is largely undocumented. Morons.
Actually…From a legal standpoint, I think that Lindows can likely get away with saying this. In fact, depending on how you want to play it, it’s quite possibly true.
Notice that they don’t say “Can run most Windows XP applications”; Instead they just sum it up nicely as most Windows programs, without stipulating what version of Windows we’re talking about here.
When you consider how long Windows has been around, as compared to what you’re obviously considering Windows (ie, XP & 2000), then you start to realize not only it’s age (I’m talking “Windows” here… You can go back to pre 3.1 if you want to), but also how many applications have been written for it over the years.
And since up until recently Windows was based on DOS, you could also arguably lump many DOS based app’s into this “Runs most Windows programs” arguement.
Realistically, if you add up all the software (games, shareware, commercial, freeware, proprietary, etc) written for DOS and Windows, even if you only go up to say… 1999, that’s a helluva lotta programs!!
I would guess many more than are available specifically for Win2k & WinXP.
And realistcally, Lindows has a fairly good shot at running many of these programs if it’s done its homework with Wine.
Now… Do Ma and Pa Kettle want to run Office95 or Commander for DOS? Not likely, but that doesn’t mean that Lindows has misled with this statement.
It also doesn’t mean that they didn’t “bend the truth” a bit either, but you know… All’s fair in love and marketing, right? 8)=
I agree that Lindows has an uphill battle, and the odds are against it, but without people trying and possibly failing with ventures like this, Linux marketers & investors will never know what’ll succeed vs. what’ll fail.
And realistically, this type of knowledge and exposure is what’s neccesary to make Linux succeed in the consumer market (not you, me, and the other geeks here -Real consumers!).
While you and I (Well… “I” at least.. Dunno about “You”) can likely pick and choose our Linux distro’s based on their pro’s and con’s as pertinate to our needs, the average consumer can’t.
Linux scares them.
Anything other than something identical to their PC at work (typically a lovely thing with a 21″ monitor running at 800×600, with flourescent colors, extra large “fantasy” fonts -unreadable at more than a foot from the screen- and a 60hz refresh) just scares the hell out of them for some reason.
Something that’s pretty close to what they’re familiar with, but a whole lot cheaper, is likely to at least peek their curiosity a lil’. Lindows might fit the bill… You never know till you try.
Coincidentally, equally as hard as getting the average PC usert to try a new OS is how hard it is trying to get the average PC user to “think outside the box” and try to learn something on their owb. <<-Er… Like spelling
8)=
That ever-present fear of “I’ll break something!” keeps most people from exploring what a PC can offer them.
But that’s a different arguement.
Long story short: Go Lindows! 8)=
(But pity their shareholders) 8(=
Most software being written for Windows, and certainly most software that was written for Windows in the past, was designed so it would work on 95. It might work better and be primarily targetted for one of the others, but most of it was designed so it would at least function on Win95.
If the wine project can emulate the APIs for Win95, they can validly call it a success. If it can run most programs that can run on 95, it will run most windows programs….
Our Take: Oh, they realised that WINE can’t run all Windows apps because not all the Win32 APIs are public? Why did it take them more than one year to realise this?
It is possible make an implementation of Win32; but
– It is very hard. the lack of documentation for the only Win32 implementation plays a leading role.
– It is laced with patents. So, by omiting some patent-protected DLLs, you might break one or two apps.
– The applications running on Lindows (or Wine) wouldn’t have the support and help of the author of the software. If you encounter a problem, Lindows might blame it on a software bug in that application, while the app developers might blame it on Lindows even though Lindows is right. Lindows can’t possibly support that many applications anyway.
But anyway, from the original WalMart ad, Linux or Lindows are NOT based on Unix, nor complies to OpenGroup’s standard which allows them to carry the UNIX trademark. Unix-like is more like it; after all, GNU tools and Linux kernel are implementations of some UNIX tools and Minix, originally.
How much FUD is there in the constant claim that alternative Win32 implementations can’t be made?
A.
How much FUD is there in the constant claim that alternative Win32 implementations can’t be made?
Okay, just say DOJ force MS to document its implementation of Win32. Just say Lindows manage to make a implementation of it. But still, they have one problem: patents. Yes, there are a lot of patents used in Win32 API; and Wine can forget about getting permission for using it 🙂
>>How much FUD is there in the constant claim that alternative Win32 implementations can’t be made?<<
Yep, that’s me. The Microsoft lackey.
Oh, and possibly the fact that NO ONE has done it yet. Is that FUD too?
erm ok…I’ll bite…your qualifications are….(?)
“But anyway, from the original WalMart ad, Linux or Lindows are NOT based on Unix, nor complies to OpenGroup’s standard which allows them to carry the UNIX trademark. Unix-like is more like it; after all, GNU tools and Linux kernel are implementations of some UNIX tools and Minix, originally.”
The OpenGroup’s (how’s that for a newspeak-like name?) control on the term “unix” is, practically speaking, a joke. Linux (or Gnu/Linux if you prefer) has become the standard unix, something none of the commercial unix variants could achieve. Maybe Gnu’s Not Unix in the legal, trademark sense, but Gnu is most definitely unix in any sane technical sense.
My Qualifications:
Bachelors Degree in Computer Science
Industry Certifications from Novell, Cisco, Sun, and Microsoft.
I’ve been a network engineer and successful IT consultant for over 10 years, and a technical instructor for the last 5 years, PLUS – I’m a very bad programmer.
And what are your qualifications? Since when do we need qualifications to post a comment to a news story? What, because I use a very strange nick, I’m unqualified to opine?
Bite Me.
“Cuz I drink Busch Light right from the can.”
Light beer! Only fags and queers drink that sissy crap!
Anyway, I believe the Lindows-on-Walmart-PCs idea is not a good one. It all comes down to marketing. If you’re going to buy a super-cheap computer at Walmart, chances are you’re not someone who is going to need all of the features of MS’s latest Office offering. I say let Linux be Linux and just do Linux. If they included a bundle like this:
Linux Mandrake 8.2 w/KDE 3 w/all hardware settings tuned perfectly;
Hancom Office or Gobe Productive;
Kapital (Quicken clone for KDE);
Easy to access and use free software repository to use when they realize they can’t use all the software sold in the store;
then pretty much all the bases would be covered for your typical Walmart PC purchasing individual.
>>”Cuz I drink Busch Light right from the can.”
Light beer! Only fags and queers drink that sissy crap! <<
In my wild fantasy, i was assuming that bubba was somewhere in his mid 40’s, and was told by his doctor that he need to cut down on his drinking. So, instead of drinking a case of Busch every day, he now drinks a case of Busch light.
Umm… I must say you are way off there.
In fact, most apps WON’T run on Win95. Look at the downloads page for any application that is freely available. It will have a Win98/Me version, an NT version, and if they had the time a Win95 version.
There were significant differences in the API between 95 and 98, as well as the registry.
So, most apps that have been written over the years were written for Windows98.
Shame jurors are so stupid. Any lawsuit against M$ should clearly be judged against free market usage. Why does one need to buy Windows to run an app that one also bought. SHammmm on you. Talk about a crooked deal.
I was wondering when I would hear this.
Shame jurors are so stupid. Any lawsuit against M$ should clearly be judged against free market usage. Why does one need to buy Windows to run an app that one also bought. SHammmm on you. Talk about a crooked deal.
I read somewhere that no shrinkwrap license has ever prevailed in court. I don’t know if that’s completely true, but I do suspect that Microsoft’s stipulations cross the line of what is an enforceable contract.
If the trend continues, it won’t be long before Microsoft makes it so hard to use their products that it’s not worth the effort. There’s no better way to break the status quo than to price it beyond your ability to pay.
But it’s safe to say that Microsoft (like many businesses before it) will get right up to that line where people would say that enough is enough. That practice itself is unacceptable to me! But there is no shortage of gluttons for punishment. Go figure…