Last week Eyetech began shipping the first finalized AmigaOneG3-SE boards to developers. Apart from the boot ROM, these boards are identical to consumer AmigaOneG3-SE boards. Eyetech also announced a more expensive version called AmigaOne-XE motherboard, which will come with socketed PPC CPU(s) and an AmigaOne trade-in option will be available through AmigaOne dealers. Soon more dealers like i.e. Forefront Technologies, a company which is also developing ATI Radeon drivers for AmigaOS4, are to be included on this list.On other Amiga news, Thendic-France announced that it has shipped the first PEGASOS PPC computer based on bPlan’s ATX PPC mainboard project. You can download an early demonstration video of the system running MorphOS and a classic 68k AmigaOS emulation on top. The MorphOS version demonstrated, allows users to boot straightly into an emulated AmigaOS 3.x environment, similar to the way Amithlon does this on mainstream PC hardware. Sadly bPlan and Amiga Inc have not yet been able to come to an agreement with regard to the legal status of MorphOS and due to other issues AmigaOS4 support for the PEGASOS is being delayed. However Yellow Dog Linux should be available as an OS alternative at consumer launch as well.
Just to clarify the 3D drivers for ATI Radeon, Matrox G450/G550, Voodoo 3, Permedia 2/3 and certain next generation graphic cards are being/will be written by Hyperion Entertainment.
“bPlan’s ATX PPC mainboard project”
Sorry, Mike, the PEGASOS is a *miniATX* board, albeit it fits perfectly in ordinary ATX towers….
I can get an ATX mobo with a 1200MHz Duron for under $100 to put into my ATX case. Why would I want to spend $550 plus shipping from Europe to get something that doesn’t run popular software, and requires some obsolete old computer as a dongle?
> Sorry, Mike, the PEGASOS is a *miniATX* board, albeit it
> fits perfectly in ordinary ATX towers….
Actually this form factor is called microATX (uATX), which means that apart from fitting in ATX cases it can be fitted into smaller microATX cases with lower wattage powerusage as well. I mentioned that this PEGASOS board is of a microATX form factor before:
http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=857
For this news item I simply used the official form factor information stated on bPLan’s projects page.
“Multiprocessing PowerPC® G3/G4 mainboard at ATX formfactor size.”
http://www.bplan-gmbh.de/projects.html
> I can get an ATX mobo with a 1200MHz Duron for under $100 to put into my ATX case.
If that’s a good motherboard than that’s a great price. Here in the Netherlands a 1200 Mhz Duron alone already costs 89 euro. (You need to add another 100+ euro for a decent, yet plain ATX motherboard)
Just a sidenote on a subject which many ordinary costumers don’t seem to understand, is that a 600 Mhz G3 outperforms a 600 Mhz Duron and that the CPU today isn’t anymore the main factor of perceived multimedia performance.
Personally if I wanted faster currently available x86 CPU I would choose an Athlon. You I had a hard time explaining to PC users in the past that a 25 Mhz 040 CPU severly outperforms a 50 Mhz 030 CPU on the Amiga.
> Why would I want to spend $550 plus shipping from Europe
> to get something that doesn’t run popular software
It will run many classic 68k/PPC AmigaOS titles. So initially it would make sense mainly to Amiga fans and probably some other alternative OS geeks.
Do note however that the AmigaOne comes with things like 10/100Mbps ethernet, AC97 Audio, modem, 600Mhz G3 CPU AND AmigaOS4 as standard for only 550 USD (ex. VAT).
> and requires some obsolete old computer as a dongle?
Why do you spread such FUD? This was never ever the case! Later on there will be an OPTION available provided by Escena to attach an A1200 motherboard for AGA compatibility with older software.
Initially this option was planned to be required for the FIRST release of AmigaOS4 so that the AmigaOne could be supported by the AmigaOS4 much faster. But some people with a complete lack of knowledge started spreading enormous amounts of FUD, so it was decided to skip such a move and start porting AmigaOS4 to the AmigaOne when all classic hardware dependencies were solved.
If you have to ask why, then you’re probably not a real geek. This is only development equipment, it’s really meant for actually consumer use.
Not to start another CPU flame war, but I have to disagree with you Mike, when you say a 600 MHz G3 outperforms a 600 MHz Duron. I’ve seen Durons outperform Pentium 3’s, and my Pentium 3 700 MHz outperforms my iMac G4 700 Mhz. I will accept the arguement that each CPU is better at different tasks however.
Just a sidenote on a subject which many ordinary costumers don’t seem to understand, is that a 600 Mhz G3 outperforms a 600 Mhz Duron and that the CPU today isn’t anymore the main factor of perceived multimedia performance.
I said 1200MHz, not 600. I don’t know what “perceived multimedia performance” is supposed to mean. Is this a computer or not?
You I had a hard time explaining to PC users in the past that a 25 Mhz 040 CPU severly outperforms a 50 Mhz 030 CPU on the Amiga.
What does this have to do with anything? I don’t care about 860×0 chips in the 21st century.
Do note however that the AmigaOne comes with things like 10/100Mbps ethernet, AC97 Audio, modem, 600Mhz G3 CPU AND AmigaOS4 as standard for only 550 USD (ex. VAT).
So it includes an OS? That’s good; I didn’t know that. We don’t have to pay VAT here in the US, do we?
Why do you spread such FUD? This was never ever the case! Later on there will be an OPTION available provided by Escena to attach an A1200 motherboard for AGA compatibility with older software.
I’m just asking questions based on that article. I obviously don’t want to buy something that will not work without some legacy ROMs that I can’t find. If you have a beef with FUD in the article, then complain to the author. But don’t expect me to be your whipping boy! Keep a civil tongue.
I have said this before. The operating system is a very important factor while measuring benchmarks or more importantly a major factor with regard to perceived multimedia performance. MacOS X sucks with regard to efficiency and overall performance, ignoring such a dominant factor would result in extremely distorted figures.
> it’s really meant for actually consumer use.
Initial AmigaOne clones and AmigaOS4.x are meant to begin building an alternative platform and offering an OS concept appealing to Amiga fans. It can be a fun new niche platform for other alternative operating systems as well. Everyone involved in these projects are very well aware that most general consumers wont’t rush out to buy an AmigaOne just overnight. There are big plans for the future however.
> I’ve seen Durons outperform Pentium 3
The performance of x86 processors are much more easily compared. The architecture of PPC and x86 CPUs are very different however and so is the OS you are running on it. A 600 MHz Celeron II for instance is significantly slower as compared to a 600 MHz Duron or P3 due to bus speed, memory speed, and cache issues. IMO the Duron is a very good investment considering its price/performance ratio.
Apart from the OS, I strongly believe graphic chipsets are far more important factors when comparing 3D or general multimedia benchmarks. Unless your software is doing major calculations (i.e. RC5 cracking) CPUs are IMO severely overated with regard to their influence on multimedia performance. The influence on internet or word processing usage is in most cases even close to neglectable.
Perdon my ignorance. I know nothing about boot procedure for Mac.
Can this board install Mac OS X on the HDDrive ? and bypass the bios or something ?
Again, sorry if I am asking something out of the subject.
I never really worked with a Apple for some days, except with some friends Apple machines and I wouldn’t ask them to see the BIOS (if Mac have a comparable to x86 BIOS).
I could be in for one to mount myself a Mac OS X capable machine. Thought, $550 USDollars is a lot of money …
> I said 1200MHz, not 600.
Yes I only wanted to point out that general consumers wrongly correlate clockrate figures with absolute end-user experienced performance. The CPU is only one factor in a complete system.
> I don’t know what “perceived multimedia performance” is
> supposed to mean. Is this a computer or not?
OK, one little example on perceived multimedia performance while comparing a 25 MHz 040 Amiga with a 25 Mhz 386 PC.
Result => Totally uncomparable! The PC would have trouble with even an amazingly simple tetris clone. While the Amiga would easily handle over 10 tasks simultaniously. For instance burn a CD, browse the web, format a disk and play a tetris clone, all simultaniously! Can I draw an objective conclusion regarding the CPU multimedia performance of these CPUs, based on my findings? I believe not!
> I’m just asking questions based on that article. I
> obviously don’t want to buy something that will not work
> without some legacy ROMs that I can’t find.
Hehe I wrote this article?!
I never said anything about legacy ROMs! I only briefly stated that the boards sold to general consumers will include a different (OpenFirmware compatible BIOS/AmigaOS4) ROM. I thought you were spreading FUD about the A1200 option, I can’t count the numerous questions I received regarding this because of the statements of these people.
Hi,
I visit a few boards, and for some reason folks always want to make an interplatform speed comparison
I’ve culled some code from a thread on ArsTechnica to help us determine what’s the real stuff of speed.
Required:
Java VM
This code:
public class factorial{
public static void main (String args[])
{
for( int num = 1; num < 50001; num++) //loop 1 to 50000 {
int counter = 0;
for ( int i = 1; i < num; i++ ) if( num % i == 0) { counter = counter + i; // then sum num with counter } if ( counter == num)
{ System.out.println( counter ); for ( int x = 1; x < num; x++ ) { if ( num % x == 0 ) System.out.println( “This is a factor of perfect number ” + counter + “: ” + x ); } } } System.exit(0); }}
Okay, it’s ugly but it’ll run. It is code to calculate tbe factors for a prime number. Small enough to fit into main memory and should pretty much disregard cache (both on-die and tertiary). The results? Let’s all run this and publish the results here. Or not
Just seems like a fun way to determine which machine runs faster for a particular task – this time, it’s number crunching plain and simple. Nothing fancy and nothing that should even activate a HotSpot compiler. Let’s go, and compare numbers. I’d like to see what the scores between platforms are 
Peace,
TLFord
Any PPC OS could potentially be made to run with the AmigaOne or PEGASOS board. Actually that is an objective.
However Apple doesn’t like to see MacOS X running on anything other than Apple hardware. Just like in the past 3rd party solutions may become available later on though.
> Thought, $550 USDollars is a lot of money …
Are Apple systems cheaper? I don’t think so. Considering the size of the initial target market and the development costs the AmigaOne comes at an amazingly low price. Note that Apple and PC clone manufacturers are selling boards in the millions. Believe me, AmigaOne costumers are not being screwed! 🙂
Thanks, I might assume that in the present it doesn’t install and run the Mac OS X.
> “Are Apple systems cheaper? I don’t think so.”
No, Apple systems are NOT cheaper. — we all know it the hard way.
Just out of curiosity, how does Apple makes it hard to install their OS X on non-Apple hardware ? What could be their trick ?
I made a typo in my last post. I meant to say “it’s NOT meant for consumer use”
Because you might want to run the software. Some people do. If you dont, you didnt have to comment. Believe it or not, the software that runs on these machines has a large following!
I actualy found a nother use for it too. I’ve been looking at MacOSX and decided, it looks very cool and i want a go
.
However, i dont really wanna buy a mac cause their pretty expensive, and i want to run an Amiga eventualy one day.
So, what ill do is buy an Amiga, and then buy iFusion (if it runs on OS4) to emulate PPC Macs and then MacOSX. So, i would be running MacOSX inside AmigaOS.
BTW – I dont hink mick mentioned it, but these boards could make it possible to run G5 PPC, but thats unconfirmed as of yet…
No, Apple systems are NOT cheaper. — we all know it the hard way.
ROFL!!! That’s priceless! To quote Homer Simpson: “It’s funny because it’s true.”
Just out of curiosity, how does Apple makes it hard to install their OS X on non-Apple hardware ? What could be their trick ?
Their old trick was to put a major part of the OS in ROM, so that the rest of the OS wouldn’t run on machines lacking that ROM because the OS was incomplete. But now the code that was in ROM has been moved to a file on the HD, making it easy to copy the ROM file to another machine. I’ll bet that Apple has some kind of scheme in the OS that checks for some secret identifying trait of Apple hardware. Something like the way that OEM-provided system disks scan the BIOS for hidden codes.
Mike,
I’m mystified about why you’re leading me on this wild goose chase of non sequitur comparisons. I really don’t care about computers from the 80s! I asked you what justified the 6x price difference. I was hoping for a straight answer.
You wrote the article, so you are the only person responsible for the confusion. Had you stated up front that slaving to an old Amiga isn’t required, I wouldn’t have had to ask. The language in the article sure makes it seem like this thing requires an old Amiga in some way. And since I wasn’t getting a straight answer (again), I ventured a guess about the ROM. After all, that’s what the Amiga emulators require, so it’s logical to ask.
There was a mom and pop computer store that carried Amigas near a place I worked at, and I spent some hours in there checking them out. Had I not been a poor student, I may have bought one. More recently the thing that keeps me from looking farther has been the fine print stipulating that I must provide this or that, usually an old Amiga or at least the ROM chips. That’s a deal-breaker for me. I want all-new, up-to-date systems.
No offense Mike, but your answers leave me wary. You appear to have something to hide, as opposed to a product that you’re proud of. I wish you the best, but I’m going to wait and see. After all, you’re just the latest in a loooooong line of people who have claimed that the Amiga’s return was imminent.
If you wanted classic Amiga apps wouldn’t it be better to use an emulator?
Can this run classic Amiga games? or is it meant for mainly multimedia apps? If so what multimedia applications? or is it a developers system that is designed to kickstart the Amiga comeback?
What multimedia chipsets does it use (video/audio)?
Oh and why can’t I have on shipped to my door for free
If you wanted classic Amiga apps wouldn’t it be better to use an emulator?
Some people would say lite beer isn’t really beer. Get the idea?
Can this run classic Amiga games? or is it meant for mainly multimedia apps? If so what multimedia applications? or is it a developers system that is designed to kickstart the Amiga comeback?
What multimedia chipsets does it use (video/audio)?
I thought Mike had mentioned Radeon, GeForce, and Matrox video cards having drivers written for Amiga OS 4. And yes, it would make sense that this is an effort to kickstart the Amiga comeback. Now a days, it’s like every company’s dream to knock Microsoft off the throne. A year or 2 ago, this would have been just a dream. But there’s evidence that Microsoft is losing their hold on the computer industry. MS is running out of cool new ideas, and ripping off other people’s ideas isn’t working as good as it use to.
Oh and why can’t I have on shipped to my door for free
Maybe if you were coding the next killer app, then they’d ship you a unit for free.
The Amiga’s return is imminent. Weather you actualy want an Amiga is a different thing. If your quite new to computers, and not at all interested in “alternative platforms” i would not recomend AmigaOS. If your a geek, then AmigaOS might for some time hold some interest to you. Like myself, but first, run an emulation on your PC to get a good feel for it.
I’ve used it, and it does seem a bit more responsive, but its nothing to special, but hopfuly it will be. And thats just my opinion btw. To many people, this platform is VERY special.
Of course, they’re also in a better position to comment too, because i havnt explored AmigaOS extensivly as of yet! – Work in progress
I can get an ATX mobo with a 1200MHz Duron for under $100 to put into my ATX case. Why would I want to spend $550 plus shipping from Europe to get something that doesn’t run popular software, and requires some obsolete old computer as a dongle?
The mainboard that best competes with this one is VIA KT266A from Asus. It is $100, while the Duron is $90 (both are Malaysian street price), so you are off by 90 bucks. And since the AmigaOne comes with an OS (albeit without any apps), and you aren’t entitled to the OEM version of Windows, add in another $200 (American street price). Which would make your figure 290 bucks off. But nontheless, here, it is cheaper than amigaOne.
Just a sidenote on a subject which many ordinary costumers don’t seem to understand, is that a 600 Mhz G3 outperforms a 600 Mhz Duron and that the CPU today isn’t anymore the main factor of perceived multimedia performance.
He is comparing 1200mhz Duron, not 600mhz, which most likely wouldn’t be a Morgan. Duron Morgan could outperform G3s BTW. Anyway, multimedia wise, we aren’t talking about G4, which having a multimedia app optimized for it (by using Altivec), it would be a lot faster. However, just to side note, G3 used in AmigaOne on Eyetech is much cooler than Duron Morgan, so you spend less on fans.
Personally if I wanted faster currently available x86 CPU I would choose an Athlon. You I had a hard time explaining to PC users in the past that a 25 Mhz 040 CPU severly outperforms a 50 Mhz 030 CPU on the Amiga.
Actually, currently, Pentium 4 is officially faster (ever since they went to 0.13micron). They are releasing Thoroughbred soon though… But anyway, you want the biggest bang for the buck, Athlon scores the highest in the PC arena.
Do note however that the AmigaOne comes with things like 10/100Mbps ethernet, AC97 Audio, modem, 600Mhz G3 CPU AND AmigaOS4 as standard for only 550 USD (ex. VAT).
It comes with a modem? So, add $10 to the figure up there. I didn’t know it came with a modem, honest. Anyway, from Eyetech’s page
This is in effect a 600Mhz G3 Amiga accelerator with built in 10/100 ethernet, USB, PCI/AGP interface and memory slots for up to 2GB of SDRAM.
No modem mentioned, same with the AC97 Audio.
Initially this option was planned to be required for the FIRST release of AmigaOS4 so that the AmigaOne could be supported by the AmigaOS4 much faster. But some people with a complete lack of knowledge started spreading enormous amounts of FUD, so it was decided to skip such a move and start porting AmigaOS4 to the AmigaOne when all classic hardware dependencies were solved.
OT, the screenshots I have seen of OS 4 is truly ugly, I mean its uglier than default Windows 9x and KDE 1.x. In the world of Luna and Aqua…. ewww.
Anyway, on AmigaOne, you could run Linux on. In fact, they tested the boards with Linux.
Linux after all, has more apps than Amiga OS…
Not to start another CPU flame war, but I have to disagree with you Mike, when you say a 600 MHz G3 outperforms a 600 MHz Duron. I’ve seen Durons outperform Pentium 3’s, and my Pentium 3 700 MHz outperforms my iMac G4 700 Mhz. I will accept the arguement that each CPU is better at different tasks however.
I have seen my PC outperform (1.1ghz PIII) iMac G4 700mhz, especially in terms of web browsing. I think I’ll see how it would be like with Jaguar around..
Keep a civil tongue.
Something I notice you don’t have.
…There are big plans for the future however.
And you would know that?
The performance of x86 processors are much more easily compared. The architecture of PPC and x86 CPUs are very different however and so is the OS you are running on it. A 600 MHz Celeron II for instance is significantly slower as compared to a 600 MHz Duron or P3 due to bus speed, memory speed, and cache issues. IMO the Duron is a very good investment considering its price/performance ratio.
Just nitpicking, there isn’t any Celeron II. They were all sold under one brand name, unlike Pentium (Pentium II, Pentium III, Pentium 4…).
Apart from the OS, I strongly believe graphic chipsets are far more important factors when comparing 3D or general multimedia benchmarks. Unless your software is doing major calculations (i.e. RC5 cracking) CPUs are IMO severely overated with regard to their influence on multimedia performance. The influence on internet or word processing usage is in most cases even close to neglectable.
NVidia CPUs aren’t supported under OS 4. NVidia argubly makes the best GPUs available (look, don’t compare it with unreleased products, ok?)
Anyway, processor benchmarks between Athlon XP and Pentium 4 shows that there is difference in terms of speed for multimedia tasks and internet and office task, proving that processors does place a role.
Can this board install Mac OS X on the HDDrive ? and bypass the bios or something ?
You can’t install Mac OS X without a Mac ROM, and the only way to get a Mac ROM is to purchase a Mac, which moots the point of getting a AmigaOne, right?
Again, sorry if I am asking something out of the subject.
I never really worked with a Apple for some days, except with some friends Apple machines and I wouldn’t ask them to see the BIOS (if Mac have a comparable to x86 BIOS).
There isn’t a BIOS on Macs. They have something better. Linux BIOS for x86 proves there could be a better replacement for BIOS. Unfortunately, it supports little chipsets.
Yes I only wanted to point out that general consumers wrongly correlate clockrate figures with absolute end-user experienced performance. The CPU is only one factor in a complete system.
None of us here believe that clock speed equals performance. You are comparing a new processor with a discontinued processor, which is bad.
Result => Totally uncomparable! The PC would have trouble with even an amazingly simple tetris clone. While the Amiga would easily handle over 10 tasks simultaniously. For instance burn a CD, browse the web, format a disk and play a tetris clone, all simultaniously! Can I draw an objective conclusion regarding the CPU multimedia performance of these CPUs, based on my findings? I believe not!
Amiga have a legacy of good programming (ie: not bloated). However, it remains to be seen whether this is continued on in OS 4.
BTW, you can’t burn a CD on a PC that have 300mhz or slower.
Thanks, I might assume that in the present it doesn’t install and run the Mac OS X.
It won’t in the future too.
Just out of curiosity, how does Apple makes it hard to install their OS X on non-Apple hardware ? What could be their trick ?
You need a ROM. To get it, you need a relatively new Mac. you could go for old Macs, but I can’t imagine wasting all that money just to get a ROM to run OS X.
So, what ill do is buy an Amiga, and then buy iFusion (if it runs on OS4) to emulate PPC Macs and then MacOSX. So, i would be running MacOSX inside AmigaOS.
Do you have a URL to iFusion? Cause i never heard of anybody reverse engineering Mac’s ROM and not get sued. Besides, I imagine running Mac OS X and AmigaOS would be slow. Just buy a Mac if you are so desperate.
.. Now a days, it’s like every company’s dream to knock Microsoft off the throne..
Of they want to knock Microsoft off the throne, they should have a better plan than this. For example, in OS 4, they could provide a migration API for Win32 developers and strike deals with various companies to provide apps for your system. Stuff like that. The only people that seems to do the most right is Apple, but of course, because they maintain control on their hardware, they can’t supply to niches and also their hardware is tad expensive. For me, I plan to start a company making an OS (for the desktop, handheld, server and embedded. I would make the server the hub, as oppose to the desktop. Email me to know more).
The Amiga’s return is imminent. Weather you actualy want an Amiga is a different thing. If your quite new to computers, and not at all interested in “alternative platforms” i would not recomend AmigaOS. If your a geek, then AmigaOS might for some time hold some interest to you. Like myself, but first, run an emulation on your PC to get a good feel for it.
I have no idea where to buy OS 4 or an emulator for it. OS 3.9 isn’t that impressive.
> I asked you what justified the 6x price difference. I
> was hoping for a straight answer.
And I gave you a straight answer. These boards include far more than you expected, but also has a smaller potential consumer base. You don’t need to be a genius regarding the economics involved to understand the influence of the development costs/userbase ratio.
If you don’t want it don’t buy it. Interested people will have a very hard time finding a cheaper PPC based solution.
> Had you stated up front that slaving to an old Amiga isn’t required, I wouldn’t have had to ask.
Based on the article there was no reason for you to believe this and would your question have been: “Do I need…obsolete old computer as a dongle?” instead of “Why would I want…and requires some obsolete old computer as a dongle?” you would have gotten a different kind of reply from me.
> The language in the article sure makes it seem like this thing requires an old Amiga in some way.
Well it doesn’t.
> After all, that’s what the Amiga emulators require, so
> it’s logical to ask.
You would need a Playstion ROM to emulate a Playstation as well, does that mean you need to download a Playstation ROM when you buy a PS2?
> That’s a deal-breaker for me. I want all-new, up-to-date
> systems.
Legal emulation packages like Amiga Forever includes Amiga Roms. CU guys L8R!
I dont have a link to iFusions site, many Amigans would though. I believe the people currently coding iFusion is BlitterSoft??? It would be found on their site…
Unfortunatly, i dont have the link for their site either
Btw, i think you would have to aquire a MacROM too. It doesnt emulate it!
“If you wanted classic Amiga apps wouldn’t it be better to use an emulator?
Can this run classic Amiga games? or is it meant for mainly multimedia apps? If so what multimedia applications? or is it a
developers system that is designed to kickstart the Amiga comeback? ”
As both these motherboards use normal current graphics cards, not
custom Amiga chips, they are not very suitable for running classic
Amiga games or very old software. A copy of UAE would be needed for
this.
The AmigaOne is meant for general computing, using recent Amiga
programs that have retargetable graphics and sound, and new Amiga
programs written for PPC.
As there are far fewer programs available than for Windows, it isn’t
going to appeal to the majority. Also, you have to pay for Amiga
programs, while most Windows users get their Photoshop etc for free.
But the AmigaOS is nicer to use than Windows or Linux, and from all
accounts much easier to code for. Some people like it, and enquiring
minds may like to try it out.
If you’ve never used an Amiga at all, I suggest leaving it until next
Spring, to give the new stuff time to settle down. There are bound to
be some glitches in an OS which is to see such major changes.
without buying a Mac? Do Apple stores have spare Mac ROMs for sale? I guess not.
Jobs want OS X to run on his hardward only, its his right. So, if you want OS X, buy a Mac!
can you actually buy this board? eyetech do not even list it in their product guide… i assume its still a beta board? can anyone clarify??
>>can you actually buy this board? eyetech do not even list it in their product guide… i assume its still a beta board? can anyone clarify??<<
Eyetech was selling the boards back 2 months ago for a limited time for developers and testers, but that had expired I think the beginning of April? Mike should know. But the scoop is that they’ll be testing pretty much over the summer and I guess August might be a target month for release along with AOS 4… Mike what’s your guess?
Would it be possible to let AOS 4 run on a Mac (G3/G4)?
As there are far fewer programs available than for Windows, it isn’t going to appeal to the majority. Also, you have to pay for Amiga programs, while most Windows users get their Photoshop etc for free.
No, they pay $600 for Photoshop. Unless they are freeloading warez hippies, which in that case, it can happen to any platform (i.e. Photoshop for Mac OS is available under warez).
But the AmigaOS is nicer to use than Windows or Linux, and from all accounts much easier to code for. Some people like it, and enquiring minds may like to try it out.
Every developer likes certain APIs. I like Qt a lot, there are some that would die without Win32, others who couldn’t live without Cocoa (but I prefer coffee, kidding), and also those who have no meaning to live if there wasn’t Carbon :-).
So for you, Amiga API may be nice, for me, Qt may be nice, for Speed Win32 is nice (I don’t remember he being a developer, just using him as an example) so on. Get it?
If you’ve never used an Amiga at all, I suggest leaving it until next Spring, to give the new stuff time to settle down. There are bound to be some glitches in an OS which is to see such major changes.
I’ll wait till Eyetech provides something no-frills (ie, a board without NIC, sound etc) and give it cheap. Maybe then I’ll consider. Besides, don’t Eyetech board use non-standard RAM (ie no SDRAM or DDR SDRAM or RDRAM)? Wouldn’t be expensive getting RAM for it?
can you actually buy this board? eyetech do not even list it in their product guide… i assume its still a beta board? can anyone clarify??
No, its Theta (hehe, kidding)
The product haven’t been release for consumer use.
Yet.
Eyetech was selling the boards back 2 months ago for a limited time for developers and testers, but that had expired I think the beginning of April? Mike should know. But the scoop is that they’ll be testing pretty much over the summer and I guess August might be a target month for release along with AOS 4… Mike what’s your guess?
If the rumours were correct, we would have OS 4 in February. Wait, it didn’t haven’t, it was suppose to happen in April. No, it didn’t happen too…. (well, on the date it was prophecy of its release, all that happens is a press release trying to keep amiga fans stuck to amiga..)
Would it be possible to let AOS 4 run on a Mac (G3/G4)?
I guess, if you have a ROM. Forget it if you are using iMac, iBook andd TiBook, there is no expandblity to place a ROM.
>>If the rumours were correct, we would have OS 4 in February. Wait, it didn’t haven’t, it was suppose to happen in April. No, it didn’t happen too…. (well, on the date it was prophecy of its release, all that happens is a press release trying to keep amiga fans stuck to amiga..)<<
Well you know how the hi-tech biz goes!
“No, they pay $600 for Photoshop. Unless they are freeloading warez hippies, which in that case, it can happen to any
platform (i.e. Photoshop for Mac OS is available under warez). ”
Nobody I know has paid for Photoshop, or any other Windows programs.
Businesses and colleges pay, individuals get copies from their
friends, or download from warez sites. What private person is going to
pay those inflated prices for programs? Even Americans aren’t that
rich.
Amiga software is typically much cheaper, and Amiga users nowadays
frown on people who use pirate software, as we all know the
programmers need to eat. The Amiga coders are not faceless
corporations but known individuals.
As for all this stuff about running Mac on Amiga hardware or Amiga on
Mac hardware – forget it. They are two different computers with not
much in common. If you want to run Amiga on non-Amiga hardware, get a
fast Athlon-based PC and run Amithlon.
I feel the need to correct you on a few points
Mac OS does NOT repeat NOT need a ROM to boot
It did once.. back in the days of Motorola 680×0 processors, when the Mac toolbox was kept on a ROM chip on the motherboard – but that was abandoned when the mac OS went PPC – Release 8.5 and later use a software file called the Rom which is installed off the MacOS CD on installation.
Jim Drew of Microcode Solutions produces software called iFusion in participation with Blittersoft.. this lets one install any PPC mac OS on a G3 upgraded Amiga. I asked him if his product would support the new G3 motherboard and he confirmed that it should do.
So the answer is Yes.. you can install Mac OS on the board in emulation.
And frankly it would surprise me if there wasnt some way of installing it directly as well – after all, OSX can, using an app called ” unsupported utility ” be installed on any G3 or 603e based Umax PowerPC Mac Clone.
Just browse some Amiga forums or newsgroups and you’ll find a decent proportion of AmigaOS fans don’t want to go back down the road of non-mainstream hardware.
If this AmigaOne project is to succeed, it will be difficult if they cannot even attract most existing AmigaOS fans.
It’s time for a PC version so I can duel-boot alongside Linux, etc..
Nobody I know has paid for Photoshop, or any other Windows programs. Businesses and colleges pay, individuals get copies from their friends, or download from warez sites. What private person is going to pay those inflated prices for programs? Even Americans aren’t that rich.
Which makes you a pirate. You guys are the only reason why they are coming out with copy protection which dishonest consumers like you won’t be affected, but honest consumers would. (Besides, ussually, on the average, it is non-sanctioned Arabs, and Bruneians that are extremely rich, on the average).
Amiga software is typically much cheaper, and Amiga users nowadays frown on people who use pirate software, as we all know the programmers need to eat. The Amiga coders are not faceless corporations but known individuals.
Actually, these faceless corporations had done much more to make the world a better place. Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation for example is the biggest funder of public rural schools. And you think Gates is too rich. And because of that, you are pirating software that he paid money to build. As a result, he has less money to donate. (IIRC, most tycoons who donate – lesser known ones – donate to get IRS tax cuts).
As for all this stuff about running Mac on Amiga hardware or Amiga on Mac hardware – forget it. They are two different computers with not much in common. If you want to run Amiga on non-Amiga hardware, get a fast Athlon-based PC and run Amithlon.
The last I check, Amithlon doesn’t run OS 4 (it doesn’t emulate PPC, yet). And since the topic is on OS 4, not 3.9….
Mac OS does NOT repeat NOT need a ROM to boot
Apple begs to differ. The reason why Apple doesn’t support older G3s Macs and even more older stuff is that it requires NewWorld ROMs. These ROMs are only available in Macs. You could reverse engineer the ROM (as DMCA has allowed) provided you do not infringe Apple’s patent rights. Also, it would be against the EULA to use Mac OS on a computer that isn’t a Mac. (Besides, if Macs don’t require a ROM, why do new macs come with “ROM-on-RAM”? Fun?)
Jim Drew of Microcode Solutions produces software called iFusion in participation with Blittersoft.. this lets one install any PPC mac OS on a G3 upgraded Amiga. I asked him if his product would support the new G3 motherboard and he confirmed that it should do.
Amazingly, I ask 2 times, a still nobody gave an URL to this great product called iFusion. I tried to find it myself and this is what I got: http://www.blittersoft.com/cgi-bin/ams/shopzone30.cgi/iFusion.html .
On the website, it comes with this line “Support for OS8.6 through OS9.1” Wow, looks like their emulation of the latest ROM is still yet uncomplete. From the website, it doesn’t have any indicator that i would support Mac OS X on AmigaOnes, the whole website is about OS 9 performing great on 68040. Futher digging around shows that iFusion has software emulation of Mac’s ROM
And frankly it would surprise me if there wasnt some way of installing it directly as well – after all, OSX can, using an app called ” unsupported utility ” be installed on any G3 or 603e based Umax PowerPC Mac Clone.
If OS X can’t run on early iMacs… I doubt it runs on Umax… The latest model is so old (it’s an antique)
It’s time for a PC version so I can duel-boot alongside Linux, etc..
Eyetech used Linux in the development on their boards, while for most AmigaOne boards, Yellow Dog Linux is supported. It won’t be long till someone emulates PPC on x86, and if it anything like Amithlon, then, go PC!
But Amiga had invested a lot of money and customers on PPC. Doubt they would change focus. When they announce that they would support PPC (which was *years* ago), PPC gave more bang for the buck…. unlike today.
pple begs to differ. The reason why Apple doesn’t support older G3s Macs and even more older stuff is that it requires NewWorld ROMs. These ROMs are only available in Macs. You could reverse engineer the ROM (as DMCA has allowed) provided you do not infringe Apple’s patent rights. Also, it would be against the EULA to use Mac OS on a computer that isn’t a Mac. (Besides, if Macs don’t require a ROM, why do new macs come with “ROM-on-RAM”? Fun?)
Macs do need a ROM but it can be a software one.. see my posting.
No hardware ROM required to boot OS 8.5 onward
If OS X can’t run on early iMacs..It can run on ANY iMac – get your facts right . I doubt it runs on Umax.. It DOES – seen it, with own eyes, friend owns one. .
get your facts right..
ANY modern ( Post 8.5 ) Mac OS will boot on machines with old world ROMs too provided processor and RAM meet requirements… your fact-let about them requiring a new world ROM is just plain not true.
Plenty of G3-upgraded 601s still around running recent OS’.. even OSX can be made to run on them.
This is a PPC board that can run AmigaOS4.
This is NOT an AMIGA. The Amiga is not an OS or a computer, it’s a clever integration of the hardware the OS and the user.
A real new amiga would include Texas Instrument DSP for multimedia to replace some function of the old soundchip (forgot if it was in paula or lisa). It would have A big Xillinx Virtex FPGA to replace the copper. The blitter would be replaced by a highspeed network processor controling a cross matrix achitecture. Component would communicate trought fiber optic channel.
I still wait for that, it might will not be call an amiga but it would be amiga for me. I’m really sick of the current computer scientist generation that think that all can be done in software and that hardware is now a commodity.
The amiga was 10 year in advance to the PC at some point. Imagine wathever cool your big PC are, the architecture i described would make them 1000 time more powerfull for only 20% higher price.
Lately i coded a little app that send signal to a VCR from computer and because it’s very time sensitive and i have no handshaking i only can have my command work 99% of the time if i multitask a lot. We need fundamental change in PC architecture.
You just can’t say that higher clock processor will remove the problem because the problem itself is growing. If you take media, sure we can handle TV quality now, but why do you think resolution will stop to become higher. NTSC/Pal/Secam did stay that way because we where in a not adaptable analogue world, in a digital world resolution could go as fast as game console cycle (app 5 year). The same way 56k modem now are not faster than 14.4 then and that asl in 2 year will not be faster for surfing than 56k is now.
I’ve said this befor. Now this is only a well understood guess but, believe that MacOS will boot on this thing, however it will be a bit more complicated then most users will like. I read a press release about this board and it said that they were running PPC linux. Linux for PPC has utility that will boot MacOS X. To the best of my knowlege it works by intersepting all hardware calls and emulates them. Basicly every part of the machine is emulated, except the processor. This means that MacOS will boot on any PPC linux installation, but at a loss of performance. I don’t beleive that Apple will ever support this board directly so this may be the only way to work around this.
The software only runs until Mac OS 9. http://www.maconlinux.org/ . No Mac OS X is supported. Mac OS X would run on the board with NewWorld emulation (which isn’t built in the board, so it requires third party tools).
Besides, the only guys that makes non-Apple hardware and installs by default Mac OS 9 and Mac OS X (Server) is Terrasoft. http://www.terrasoftsolutions.com/products/gvs9000/ .
If you are finding for a cheap Mac mobo, nothing fancy, runs Mac OS X without problems, but requires on RAM, HDD, GPU, and so on can be found at http://www.haydentech.com/ (Bill hayden, if you are reading, are you still selling those?).
Anyway, that Amiga board. I decided to calculate the amount of cost besides the board
RAM – ???, maybe $100-$200
CD-RW drive – Please, buy something at least $100
GPU: GeForce 2 MX $50
Keyboard+mouse (optical) – $50
Monitor, 17″ – $150
So, save yourself the hassle and just buy a eMac (if you live in the USA and have someone you know that goes to school).
” Mac OS X would run on the board with NewWorld emulation (which isn’t built in the board, so it requires third party tools).”
You’re just plain not listening aren’t you?
wrong wrong wrong
See my earlier comments.
And I gave you a straight answer. These boards include far more than you expected…
More than I expected?!? All I have to go on is what you tell me! Mike, that’s doubletalk in the extreme. Doubletalk will not sell products to educated customers. And attacking people who question that doubletalk will guarantee the failure of your product. Bullying potential customers will earn you a punch in the face, but it will not earn you any sales.
~Seedy~, why don’t you try reading a bit yourself? Even I can see that your claims are false. Good luck getting any computer to boot without some kind of firmware (ROM)! And do I really need to remind you how many years passed between the introduction of the first PPC Mac and OS8.5? I know that part of your story doesn’t stand up, so I bet your critics have good points about other stuff.
“BTW, you can’t burn a CD on a PC that have 300mhz or slower.”
What are you talking about? I’ve been writing CDs on a Pentium 233MMX for years. I’m tempted to say this is “buy faster processors” propeganda
I know I know… why am I using something as old as a P233MMX… I am upgrading to a PPC G4 450… hah hah… Seriously, why do we normal humans need 2.5 GHz processors??
This is NOT an AMIGA. The Amiga is not an OS or a computer, it’s a clever integration of the hardware the OS and the user.
I couldn’t agree more with that statement and your other conclusions. However, there is a very different market today and it is not sure if Amiga’s success can ever be achived again.
Seriously, why do we normal humans need 2.5 GHz processors??
For example, rendering beautiful animations in BMRT with all advanced options enabled?
Seriously, why do we normal humans need 2.5 GHz processors??
To view simple webpages, of course! The faster your CPU powers through the dozens of Flash ads and pop-unders, and client-side scripting, the sooner you can get to the couple of paragraphs that you came to read. And 15 seconds later you can repeat the whole process in order to view the next couple of paragraphs…
“Nobody I know has paid for Photoshop, or any other Windows programs. Businesses and colleges pay, individuals get copies
from their friends, or download from warez sites. What private person is going to pay those inflated prices for programs?
Even Americans aren’t that rich.
Which makes you a pirate. ”
I’m not talking about me. I use Amigas for all my serious work.
I only use Windows at work, where all the software is paid for.
What I am talking about is the difficulty of reviving an OS with
non-free software in competition with Windows, which has an unlimited
supply of free software. Whether pirating Windows software is moral or
legal has nothing to do with it.
I’m not talking about me. I use Amigas for all my serious work.
I only use Windows at work, where all the software is paid for.
So, you just told you sleep on the job.
Great, I look forward to the return of AmigaOS on new PPC hardware! There’s nothing wrong with having more choices on the market.
>>Great, I look forward to the return of AmigaOS on new PPC
>>hardware! There’s nothing wrong with having more choices
>>on the market.
10/10 for you
Well done… This person is totaly correct
.
This is of course what its all about. Its a shame some of the linux folk at slashdot dont get this!
This is of course what its all about. Its a shame some of the linux folk at slashdot dont get this!
We slashdot folks accept this. Though most of use won’t buy it.