Opera Software today released the second upgrade to Opera 8. The new version, Opera 8.02, is available for Windows, Linux and Macintosh and includes security upgrades and smaller bug fixes. Download & changelog.
Very fast and sleek browser bloated with gazillion fetures but they still don’t want to make tab handling the Firefox/IE 7 style. I have tried Opera several times and I really like it. I could live with some of the quirks Opera makes (8.02 still fucks up fonts on Wikipedia) if they’d just add the stupid tab handling that everyone has been asking for, like forever.
if they’d just add the stupid tab handling that everyone has been asking for, like forever.
—
Really? I prefer the tabs in Opera; one of the reasons I haven’t switched to a browser that handles fonts properly in Linux. (That and the 2 mouse button back/forward/fast forward shortcut.)
It’s probably just a case of what I’m used to though, what are the advantages of the other way?
It is about what you’re used to. AFAIK Opera had this tab handling since they introduced tabs (in v6?), but there are a lot of Firefox users taking a look at Opera and they are immedietly frustrated by this. It’s not necessary the tab handling that’s annoying to me, but the developer’s reaction to that request. Opera is a feature whore, yet they can’t add this one simple feature people have been asking for ages (if you read Opera forums, you know what I mean).
It’s not the mouse2 back/forward that got me attracted to Opera (although I do have this in Firefox through an extension), but the speed of it. It loads very fast, renders pages quickly and there’s the instant back feature (Deer Park has this also, but it’s not nearly as good as in Opera). It’s also a lot faster at opening/closing tabs (because it doesn’t wait for mouse3 to be released).
The advantages of the “other way” is that when closing a tab Opera will go to the last accessed tab whereas FF and IE7 will take you to the previous tab in the tab bar. There are some advantages in both of them (many times after closing a tab you want to the page you were at before, but also many times you want to just to the next tab). This can be achieved in Opera through gestures or a keyboard shortcut, but not with a mouse3 click on a tab (the way I preffer).
AFAIK Opera had this tab handling since they introduced tabs (in v6?)…
I believe it was waaaaay before that. At least I remember that the last Opera for BeOS released was 3.62 and it already sported tabs at the time. However, this feature only became popular after Mozilla Seamonkey adopted it on its earlier (and buggy) incarnations…
And already has 9 bilzillion downloads by the home office count. Out selling IE, Firefox and the Bible by a huge margin. Rumor is, soon to be nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize. Opera’s CEO already half way across Atlantic Ocean, swimming completely naked, blindfolded, and with a cut finger (‘ware the sharks).
It’s actually great that they address the issues rather than ignoring them. However, it’s ridiculous to assume people will cope with installing a new version every month or so. Heck, find a way to make it patcheable.
One mans blessing is another mans curse. I actually prefer the Opera way of doing tabs compared to Firefox.
Agreed.
Love or hate the way that they do things, you’ve really gotta respect the fact that they have a completely full featured browser including a fairly decent mail client that (windows-wise) comes packaged at 3.7megs. And even then, with a vanilla install it does pretty much everything that IE and Firefox can do faster and better (for the most part).
Of course, I can’t say it wouldn’t be nice to see either A) extension functionality added similar to Firefox or B) a set of developers at Opera dedicated to making some decent extensions per the communities request.
I actually prefer the Opera way of doing tabs compared to Firefox.
I agree. Why change a behavior that’s been there from the start? I can probably see adding an option to change the behavior. But again, why? Just to follow some other browsers’ behavior?
One can’t even rearrange the tab ordering in Firefox.
I agree. Why change a behavior that’s been there from the start?
I suspect you are a troll or an idiot. No one said anything about changing the behavior, but about make it OPTIONAL to change it. That’s a big difference.
I can probably see adding an option to change the behavior. But again, why?
When almost every week someone appears on Opera forums asking if this can be done what do you do? Tell him to fuck off, or make it an option? Give him that option and you please both camps. I, for one am not using Opera until they make it an option. So there’s your answer.
Just to follow some other browsers’ behavior?
If that means getting more users… Opera is a commercial product after all.
A quick look at the src leads me to believe its relying on the fact that in IE the name of an element and id are effectively synonymous.
The javascript is full of direct references to the form element by name or from the document object. If it was translated to use getElementById() or document.forms[] or whatever it would probably work fine.
Of course beyond that page could be all sorts of nonsense JS as well. Its just badly formed javascript that happens to work in IE. They could just rehash the functionality with the standard functions used by Dreamweaver to make it cross browser (might even work in navigator then)
The reason the form doesn’t work as a default is because it uses that dodgy javascript to set the action attribute for the form. Meaning if the JS doesn’t work (or is disabled) the form points back to the login page regardless of their client side data verification does.
You might also be able to make a get request (that contains the name, company and password) for the next page that works correctly.
However I’d send them a polite mail asking if they could fix it.
If you want to remove all those ads (side effect: also google ads from Opera itself…) just install a proxy. I work on WinXP and use extremely little but effective Proxomitron. Hadn’t seen an ad for months, both in Firefox and Opera, as well as in IE. (and there is an advantage for FF: you do not need to use AdBlock, so one bloat less).
dont see the point in buying it, if i can use another browser that is free and does the same…..
if i remmeber correctly they use to offer a “lite” version that didnt have ads or a lot of functionality and that would be perfect for me! i think it was opera that did this….
Basically all I can say is try it for a while and see if you experience the advantages fanboys such as myself do. Theorizing or explaining only go so far.
Now, I am about to download 8.02 and I hope, but doubt, that they have fixxed some truly idiotic user interface changes they made from 7.xx: 1.) Eliminating the little close-page “x” in the upper RHS, and 2.) Making the security/view images toggle/view style toggle/etc. icon bar – usually to the left of the address bar – disappear while a page is loading. These UI features have actually been standard since I started using Opera in 1997, and there is no discernable advantage to the change. It is little things like that that highlight the virtues of open source. (BTW, if my experience is some artifact of using Win98 SE, someone please tell me.)
OK – I am all ears. I have scoured the INI setup files, standard_menu.ini in particular, comparing the one for Opera 7 with the one that came with Opera 8, etc. and cannot figure it out.
So, e.g., how *does* one include the standard [minimize / restore / close] button set to the upper right hand side of a *page* (i.e., on the far right of the drop menu commands row). Thank you.
Great! – thanks a lot. I do not have the tabs bar showing (in order to maximize page view space) so the connection you pointed out just never occurred to me.
As for the second question – usually in Opera (I believe, anyway), to the left of the field where the URL is displayed or typed in (the address bar), is a row of small buttons, among them an indicator of the level of security of the current page and two toggle buttons: 1.) one where clicking on it enables one to cycle between show images / cached images only / no images, 2.) one where you can cycle between user mode and author mode.
With Opera 3 through 7 these buttons stayed visible while a page was loading, so if, e.g., a page was taking forever to load (I am on dial-up) I could turn images off or to cache-only in order to speed the download. Now, in Opera 8, the address bar – full of page-load stats during loading – expands and those buttons disappear. So to, e.g., stop new images from loading during a page load I have to use a keyboard shortcut or click on View/Images/whatever. I would like the old display behavior to return.
Again, any light anyone can throw on this will be appreciated.
Not sure if I understand correctly, but have you tried right clicking on the small icons and selecting customize? When doing that you get several choices regarding the progress bar. I use simple. Maybe that’s what you are after?
> Not sure if I understand correctly, but have you tried right clicking on the small icons and selecting customize? When doing that you get several choices regarding the progress bar. I use simple. Maybe that’s what you are after?
— and —
> You can also right click in the address bar then select “Customize.” Once there select “Tools” and look for “Progress Bar”. Out to the right of that you can select how you wish to have progress information shown. You can change it from showing in the address bar to having it shown at the bottom of the browser, etc.
Yes – that did it (choosing the “Simple” option). Thank you very much! I figured I was ignorant of some configurability options. I was right.
> AFAIK… these buttons stay visible all the time if you click the eyeball looking icon found on the upper right hand corner of Opera.
I am afraid I have already messed around with my config enough that I cannot figure out what you are referring to here. Obviously not an issue given that the other suggestions got me what I wanted.
“With Opera 3 through 7 these buttons stayed visible while a page was loading, so if, e.g., a page was taking forever to load (I am on dial-up) I could turn images off or to cache-only in order to speed the download. Now, in Opera 8, the address bar – full of page-load stats during loading – expands and those buttons disappear. So to, e.g., stop new images from loading during a page load I have to use a keyboard shortcut or click on View/Images/whatever. I would like the old display behavior to return.
Again, any light anyone can throw on this will be appreciated.”
AFAIK… these buttons stay visible all the time if you click the eyeball looking icon found on the upper right hand corner of Opera.
You can also right click in the address bar then select “Customize.” Once there select “Tools” and look for “Progress Bar”. Out to the right of that you can select how you wish to have progress information shown. You can change it from showing in the address bar to having it shown at the bottom of the browser, etc.
Since we seem to have some knowledgeable Opera users here I will throw out this final (?) issue I have with Opera 8 behavior – this one started with Opera 7:
I load a page (usually a reload) with cached images only … I find an image or two is missing (on a reload due to the page having been updated) … I change to “Show images” and Opera proceeds to load the missing images (good) AND RELOAD ALL THE NON-MISSING IMAGES (bad).
This is obviously not helpful, given my intent. Is there some setting that causes Opera to just load JUST the missing images, a la Opera 3/4/5/6 behavior? Thanks again for the help given so far.
I’m not certain if there is a way to get around what you are asking other than right clicking on the image or couple of images that are missing and select “Reload Image.” Doing this is not ideal however it would keep you from having to download them all again, especially since you are on dial up. However I’ll dig around when I have time and see what I can find out.
If this option cannot be found or set, you might consider emailing the good folks at Opera about it. I’m sure that option would be easy to add and they have always been very receptive to user suggestions.
Regarding the eyeball looking icon I mentioned… it is one of Opera’s default icons normally to the right of the search string. What it does is toggle the menu bar that shows “Find in page”, “Voice”, “Author mode”, “Show images”, and “Fit to window width” on and off.
Very fast and sleek browser bloated with gazillion fetures but they still don’t want to make tab handling the Firefox/IE 7 style. I have tried Opera several times and I really like it. I could live with some of the quirks Opera makes (8.02 still fucks up fonts on Wikipedia) if they’d just add the stupid tab handling that everyone has been asking for, like forever.
if they’d just add the stupid tab handling that everyone has been asking for, like forever.
—
Really? I prefer the tabs in Opera; one of the reasons I haven’t switched to a browser that handles fonts properly in Linux. (That and the 2 mouse button back/forward/fast forward shortcut.)
It’s probably just a case of what I’m used to though, what are the advantages of the other way?
It is about what you’re used to. AFAIK Opera had this tab handling since they introduced tabs (in v6?), but there are a lot of Firefox users taking a look at Opera and they are immedietly frustrated by this. It’s not necessary the tab handling that’s annoying to me, but the developer’s reaction to that request. Opera is a feature whore, yet they can’t add this one simple feature people have been asking for ages (if you read Opera forums, you know what I mean).
It’s not the mouse2 back/forward that got me attracted to Opera (although I do have this in Firefox through an extension), but the speed of it. It loads very fast, renders pages quickly and there’s the instant back feature (Deer Park has this also, but it’s not nearly as good as in Opera). It’s also a lot faster at opening/closing tabs (because it doesn’t wait for mouse3 to be released).
The advantages of the “other way” is that when closing a tab Opera will go to the last accessed tab whereas FF and IE7 will take you to the previous tab in the tab bar. There are some advantages in both of them (many times after closing a tab you want to the page you were at before, but also many times you want to just to the next tab). This can be achieved in Opera through gestures or a keyboard shortcut, but not with a mouse3 click on a tab (the way I preffer).
AFAIK Opera had this tab handling since they introduced tabs (in v6?)…
I believe it was waaaaay before that. At least I remember that the last Opera for BeOS released was 3.62 and it already sported tabs at the time. However, this feature only became popular after Mozilla Seamonkey adopted it on its earlier (and buggy) incarnations…
And already has 9 bilzillion downloads by the home office count. Out selling IE, Firefox and the Bible by a huge margin. Rumor is, soon to be nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize. Opera’s CEO already half way across Atlantic Ocean, swimming completely naked, blindfolded, and with a cut finger (‘ware the sharks).
//sorry, campaigning for a job in their PR firm
It’s actually great that they address the issues rather than ignoring them. However, it’s ridiculous to assume people will cope with installing a new version every month or so. Heck, find a way to make it patcheable.
Opera 8.10 Preview 2 is also out – with BitTorrent.
Windows: http://snapshot.opera.com/windows/w810p2.html
Unix/Linux: http://snapshot.opera.com/unix/u810p2.html
Mac: http://snapshot.opera.com/mac/m810p2.html
Tks!
I was just trying to figure out where was BitTorrent in the final 8.02 changelog. =]
Opera 8.02 is available for FreeBSD as well
<<Heck, find a way to make it patcheable.>>
Well, considering that at under 5mb, the complete Opera install is smaller than most people’s patches …
One mans blessing is another mans curse. I actually prefer the Opera way of doing tabs compared to Firefox.
One mans blessing is another mans curse. I actually prefer the Opera way of doing tabs compared to Firefox.
Agreed.
Love or hate the way that they do things, you’ve really gotta respect the fact that they have a completely full featured browser including a fairly decent mail client that (windows-wise) comes packaged at 3.7megs. And even then, with a vanilla install it does pretty much everything that IE and Firefox can do faster and better (for the most part).
Of course, I can’t say it wouldn’t be nice to see either A) extension functionality added similar to Firefox or B) a set of developers at Opera dedicated to making some decent extensions per the communities request.
but that’s just my fan-boy equipment.
–mendicant
I actually prefer the Opera way of doing tabs compared to Firefox.
I agree. Why change a behavior that’s been there from the start? I can probably see adding an option to change the behavior. But again, why? Just to follow some other browsers’ behavior?
One can’t even rearrange the tab ordering in Firefox.
> One can’t even rearrange the tab ordering in Firefox.
Oh no? Wonder how I’ve been doing it for over a year now. Oh, I know through extensions! Amazing what one can do with them, huh?
Duh.
Tab Mix Plus has this feature as well as several other extensions. I’d recommend Tab Mix Plus though, it has a ton of nice tab features.
Here’s the homepage: http://tmp.gary.elixant.com/
If its bandwidth is exceeded then try the Google cache:
http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:1CwpJOBmapkJ:tmp.gary.elixant….
Aaand if you just want the Tab Mix Plus beta .xpi to drag and drop into your Extensions Manager, just go here:
http://projects1.com/Firefox/Tabmix/
(I recommend using the beta version btw.. it’s much better.)
I agree. Why change a behavior that’s been there from the start?
I suspect you are a troll or an idiot. No one said anything about changing the behavior, but about make it OPTIONAL to change it. That’s a big difference.
I can probably see adding an option to change the behavior. But again, why?
When almost every week someone appears on Opera forums asking if this can be done what do you do? Tell him to fuck off, or make it an option? Give him that option and you please both camps. I, for one am not using Opera until they make it an option. So there’s your answer.
Just to follow some other browsers’ behavior?
If that means getting more users… Opera is a commercial product after all.
Well Tried Opera for the first time.
It can’t seem to work with the 1 page I need it to.
https://www.officemd.net/
Anyone have any Idea what makes this page only usable in IE under windows? Just curious if theres something I can do to get my Mac to work w/it.
Beats me… all I get is a login screen and I guess that works but there’s no way for me to test it.
A quick look at the src leads me to believe its relying on the fact that in IE the name of an element and id are effectively synonymous.
The javascript is full of direct references to the form element by name or from the document object. If it was translated to use getElementById() or document.forms[] or whatever it would probably work fine.
Of course beyond that page could be all sorts of nonsense JS as well. Its just badly formed javascript that happens to work in IE. They could just rehash the functionality with the standard functions used by Dreamweaver to make it cross browser (might even work in navigator then)
The reason the form doesn’t work as a default is because it uses that dodgy javascript to set the action attribute for the form. Meaning if the JS doesn’t work (or is disabled) the form points back to the login page regardless of their client side data verification does.
You might also be able to make a get request (that contains the name, company and password) for the next page that works correctly.
However I’d send them a polite mail asking if they could fix it.
have found opera slow when loading a lot of images, especially if javascript is involved….
cant stand ads either tho….
all in all not a bad broswer and several years ago was my browser of choice but has been /phoenix/firebird/firefox for a while now
If you want to remove all those ads (side effect: also google ads from Opera itself…) just install a proxy. I work on WinXP and use extremely little but effective Proxomitron. Hadn’t seen an ad for months, both in Firefox and Opera, as well as in IE. (and there is an advantage for FF: you do not need to use AdBlock, so one bloat less).
Another great way to remove those ads is to actually BUY their browser! That is, after all, how they’re trying to make money.
For me buying Opera was the best $39 I ever spent on software.
dont see the point in buying it, if i can use another browser that is free and does the same…..
if i remmeber correctly they use to offer a “lite” version that didnt have ads or a lot of functionality and that would be perfect for me! i think it was opera that did this….
I just don’t see why…. does it buy me anything over camino, firefox, mozilla, IE, safari, and a host of others?
It buys you a good feeling
You support a small company so they can improve the browser even more.
Basically all I can say is try it for a while and see if you experience the advantages fanboys such as myself do. Theorizing or explaining only go so far.
Now, I am about to download 8.02 and I hope, but doubt, that they have fixxed some truly idiotic user interface changes they made from 7.xx: 1.) Eliminating the little close-page “x” in the upper RHS, and 2.) Making the security/view images toggle/view style toggle/etc. icon bar – usually to the left of the address bar – disappear while a page is loading. These UI features have actually been standard since I started using Opera in 1997, and there is no discernable advantage to the change. It is little things like that that highlight the virtues of open source. (BTW, if my experience is some artifact of using Win98 SE, someone please tell me.)
Uh you can change both. They’re options now.
> Uh you can change both. They’re options now.
OK – I am all ears. I have scoured the INI setup files, standard_menu.ini in particular, comparing the one for Opera 7 with the one that came with Opera 8, etc. and cannot figure it out.
So, e.g., how *does* one include the standard [minimize / restore / close] button set to the upper right hand side of a *page* (i.e., on the far right of the drop menu commands row). Thank you.
Go to Tools/Preferences, and uncheck “Show close button on each tab”. As for your second question, I have no idea what you are talking about.
Great! – thanks a lot. I do not have the tabs bar showing (in order to maximize page view space) so the connection you pointed out just never occurred to me.
As for the second question – usually in Opera (I believe, anyway), to the left of the field where the URL is displayed or typed in (the address bar), is a row of small buttons, among them an indicator of the level of security of the current page and two toggle buttons: 1.) one where clicking on it enables one to cycle between show images / cached images only / no images, 2.) one where you can cycle between user mode and author mode.
With Opera 3 through 7 these buttons stayed visible while a page was loading, so if, e.g., a page was taking forever to load (I am on dial-up) I could turn images off or to cache-only in order to speed the download. Now, in Opera 8, the address bar – full of page-load stats during loading – expands and those buttons disappear. So to, e.g., stop new images from loading during a page load I have to use a keyboard shortcut or click on View/Images/whatever. I would like the old display behavior to return.
Again, any light anyone can throw on this will be appreciated.
Not sure if I understand correctly, but have you tried right clicking on the small icons and selecting customize? When doing that you get several choices regarding the progress bar. I use simple. Maybe that’s what you are after?
> Not sure if I understand correctly, but have you tried right clicking on the small icons and selecting customize? When doing that you get several choices regarding the progress bar. I use simple. Maybe that’s what you are after?
— and —
> You can also right click in the address bar then select “Customize.” Once there select “Tools” and look for “Progress Bar”. Out to the right of that you can select how you wish to have progress information shown. You can change it from showing in the address bar to having it shown at the bottom of the browser, etc.
Yes – that did it (choosing the “Simple” option). Thank you very much! I figured I was ignorant of some configurability options. I was right.
> AFAIK… these buttons stay visible all the time if you click the eyeball looking icon found on the upper right hand corner of Opera.
I am afraid I have already messed around with my config enough that I cannot figure out what you are referring to here. Obviously not an issue given that the other suggestions got me what I wanted.
“With Opera 3 through 7 these buttons stayed visible while a page was loading, so if, e.g., a page was taking forever to load (I am on dial-up) I could turn images off or to cache-only in order to speed the download. Now, in Opera 8, the address bar – full of page-load stats during loading – expands and those buttons disappear. So to, e.g., stop new images from loading during a page load I have to use a keyboard shortcut or click on View/Images/whatever. I would like the old display behavior to return.
Again, any light anyone can throw on this will be appreciated.”
AFAIK… these buttons stay visible all the time if you click the eyeball looking icon found on the upper right hand corner of Opera.
You can also right click in the address bar then select “Customize.” Once there select “Tools” and look for “Progress Bar”. Out to the right of that you can select how you wish to have progress information shown. You can change it from showing in the address bar to having it shown at the bottom of the browser, etc.
Since we seem to have some knowledgeable Opera users here I will throw out this final (?) issue I have with Opera 8 behavior – this one started with Opera 7:
I load a page (usually a reload) with cached images only … I find an image or two is missing (on a reload due to the page having been updated) … I change to “Show images” and Opera proceeds to load the missing images (good) AND RELOAD ALL THE NON-MISSING IMAGES (bad).
This is obviously not helpful, given my intent. Is there some setting that causes Opera to just load JUST the missing images, a la Opera 3/4/5/6 behavior? Thanks again for the help given so far.
I’m not certain if there is a way to get around what you are asking other than right clicking on the image or couple of images that are missing and select “Reload Image.” Doing this is not ideal however it would keep you from having to download them all again, especially since you are on dial up. However I’ll dig around when I have time and see what I can find out.
If this option cannot be found or set, you might consider emailing the good folks at Opera about it. I’m sure that option would be easy to add and they have always been very receptive to user suggestions.
Regarding the eyeball looking icon I mentioned… it is one of Opera’s default icons normally to the right of the search string. What it does is toggle the menu bar that shows “Find in page”, “Voice”, “Author mode”, “Show images”, and “Fit to window width” on and off.