Asa Dotzler, from the Mozilla foundation, has just written an interesting analysis describing why Linux is not ready for desktops yet, and suggests four main categories that must be addressed to improve this.
Asa Dotzler, from the Mozilla foundation, has just written an interesting analysis describing why Linux is not ready for desktops yet, and suggests four main categories that must be addressed to improve this.
I don’t mean the “not crashing” kind of stability. I’m talking about a stable API that doesn’t require the user jump through hoops when they want to download a new application from Download.com.
I don’t understand why he absolutely has to download ffox or any other app from download.com. Why? Essentially all GNU/Linux has repositories and package managers, so I really can’t see why users should go to download.com or any other similar site just cause that’s the method they use in Windows (also os x I believe, but also there you can use fink or gentoo emerge).
In GNU/Linux you use frontends like synaptic, yum or similar. Has this guy really used “Linux” for 7 years? I’ve used it for about 1, and it didn’t take long to find out about package-management. To me it seems easier this way then windows-way anyhow, and no it’s not hard to learn.
Linux is ready for desktop.
We should be able to rate all the articles posted here at OSNews, not only the exclusives ones, so maybe that would make the editors get a clue that people just _can’t stand_ this theme anymore.
Kikoo lol asv ?
“I’ve tried KDE and Gnome desktops but my latest is FC4 so my criticism is focused on that (and Gnome) but I think KDE distributions suffer just as bad if not worse”..
Is there any FC4 desktop?? I thoght FC4 meant Redhat Fedora Core 4…
“Users who just want to download a SETUP.EXE, double click on it and have the software install by itself with the icon at the right place”
And end up with the latest virus/malware.
“. I need native apps from Adobe, Macromedia, Microsoft…
”
Ask Adobe, Macromedia, Microsoft about this. The linux community cannot be blamed for other people not joining in. Or inform some Developers exactly WHICH features you would like to see, and how much you are willing to pay them to include.
“If you don’t want to ease the pain for normal users, if you don’t need normal users running Linux, then PLEASE, stop talking about Desktop Linux.”
The pain of spyware/viruss? The pain of vendor-lock-in and proprietry document formats? The pain of having to agree to a EULA with no idea of what is in it, or what it means?
3 months on Mandrake (too simple, I didn;t learn much about Linux)
2 years on Slackware. (I learnt LOTS)
2 months on Kubuntu (My Slackware hdd crashed. Decided to try something else, seeing as I had ot re-install anyway)
I have 2 PCs KVMed together.
The Windows box is for games.
My Linux box is used for collecting my email, reading webpages (e.g. OSNews), Instant Messenger, IRC, web design, RPG design and planning, basically everything I
do on a PC apart from games.
My webpage has existed for about 7 years, surviving Windows 98, 2000, XP, Mandrake, Slackware, Kubuntu, server-crashes, re-writes …
I don’t reinstall my OS just to test a new distro – that is what my 3rd PC is for.
“Don´t ask for Linux to be crippled to adapt to lazy users. ”
Ummmm… I thought the whole point of software was to automate tasks so you could be lazy.
If there is a task to be done by an organisation comprising of English speakers then why would I write instructions for the task in Esperanto.
What you really want is the task done, NOT everyone to learn Esperanto.
Think about what is important here?
If people think it’s fun to speak Esperanto they still can, but unless you have the instructions in English as well, don’t expect the majority of people to get the task done or work with you.
And so it is with the Linux desktop experience.
If you want Linux to be more popular in a world comprising of Windows users then why would you significantly change the desktop experience?
What you really want is Linux to be useful, NOT everyone to learn Linux(GUI).
Think about what is important here?
If people think it’s fun to customise Linux to their tastes they still can, but unless you cater to the majority of computer users by having a desktop paradigm extremely similar to Windows, don’t expect the majority of people to switch to Linux.
And really…I think when you ask “is Linux ready for the desktop?”, you are really asking is Linux ready for the majority of people to switch over to from Engl….Errrr. I mean Windows.
From what I can ascertain the answer is “No”. Why not give instructions in both Esperanto and English so you can choose, or rather why not have a desktop experience using the Windows or KDE/GNOME desktop paradigms and allow the user to choose.
That can hardly be considered crippling if you’re catering to both types of users……
You can still innovate…for those who appreciate it.
Ok. Going back to my happy place now.
p.s. Excuse me for running IE but…..
there is a consistent Javascript error on every page refresh this quite annoying.
A runtime error has occurred.
Do you wish to debug?
Line: 93
Error: “Ad” is undefined..
p.s. Excuse me for running IE but…..
there is a consistent Javascript error on every page refresh this quite annoying.
A runtime error has occurred.
Do you wish to debug?
Line: 93
Error: “Ad” is undefined..
Heheheh… I know what you mean. There is nothing wrong with the site as far as I know. There seems to be some strange bug with IE since I can easily reproduce the error that you describe, but I need to make at least one instance of the browser freeze with a Flash ad or something similar before that. I noticed this problem after trying to see some articles in the eWeek website. Everytime, the browser just hangs and I have to close that instance. After that, the OSNews webpage starts to give some non-existant Javascripts errors.
But since that only happens on the company’s workstation that I use, I’m guessing that this must be related to a GPO or something like that.
Windows user believes Linux must become Windows to be “ready for the desktop”. Linus hard at work coding blue screen of death.
to switch OSs you shouldn’t have to unlearn everything you know and relearn another computer paradigm. Linux forces you to learn a new computing paradigm – OSX is a diffreent os but the paradigm is the same. Linux ain’t!
You’re kidding right?
I think that the ‘readyness’ of an operating system merely lies in it’s adoption by the masses not by it’s actual state. I mean look back at Windows 395, 98 & ME for example. These OS’s were hopeless. Crashing all the time, slow as hell, resource hungry, not userfriendly at all. Yet everybody used it. Why? M-A-R-K-E-T-I-N-G. Look at Mozilla, before there was just a minor group, mostly Netscape refugees who used Mozilla, while it was a perfectly usable browser and it was free. Yet it took a huge campaign of enthousiasts, newspaper ads, coverage in almost every single PC magazine to get Firefox to the point where it’s now, an approx 8,5% marketshare.
Other reasons why Joe Average won’t switch OS:
1. There is no good reason for him to do so. He has his games, programs, settings, bookmarks all sorted and it works fine. So there are virii *shrug* he’ll install a virusscanner. Oh spyware? He’ll install some app for it and continues. This all requires less effort than installing Linux, figuring out what apps to use, see if he can restore his bookmarks and settings and then find that he can’t play the games he wants to play, that he cannot use the apps he used to.
2. There is hardly any native support for most Linux users (yeah sorry, wanted to address this, since not all Linux users live in America or some other native english country), whereas there is a MS helpdesk in almost every single country. Next to that everybody can help you out (or thinks he/she can) if you have Windows, while Linux leaves you alone in the cold (the internet) pretty often.
3. People use Windows everywhere: work, school even the library. They always know what to expect and how things work, while switching to Linux is a jump in the dark.
So, to ‘convert’ the majority of the people to Linux, you’d need a revolution: features/advantages/etc to outclass windows once and for all, a good marketing campaign and a more widespread use of Linux in public places and work, until that time Linux as well as most other OS’s will only play a minor role on the desktop market.
Author should specify which Linux distribution has he worked with. Some distributions are very “users friendly” others are not. I am using very much customized RedHat 9 with IceWM window manager, and a lot of GTK applications. It works perfect for me and I am able to do my daily work very quickly.
Other people might preferr something else. Maybe some distribution comes with a price, like Linspire. For example, I have no idea what comes with Linspire, or Mandriva, Suse, Unbutu, but they might be “ready for the desktop”.
The conclusion is that Linux is not a monolithic operating system, but a rich set of tools that makes possible to build different platforma, tailored to a needs of all kinds of users.
DG
News flash for n00bs and winbi***es alike:
LINUX is NOT Windows!
Accept it.
Learn it.
Love it!
-nX
Funny thing, as I am posting using my Linux Desktop (FC 4)
There is “Windows goodness”, “OS X goodness” and “linux goodness.” The last is not good enough, and it could be better. The point is, kill Arts and esd, and have one network-transparent sound server for all unix variants with the capabilities of JACK.
Then, take GTK2 to diet. Gnome and KDE are not just bloated, they are bloated compared to what they do, and bloated compared to how light they could be. Kiss gconf goodbye, and find some less complicated and less heavy format than XML.
Then, make OpenOffice less ugly. Polish the GUI. See the “Properties: Check box” window. You could hardly do an uglier and less polished GUI design. Additionally, never have a window scroll its contents when it could be correctly sized by default. Do they not have the talent for this, do they not know or do they not care?
For those bored of these “win vs. linux” threads. We know you exist, and saying it brings nothing to the discussion. Go home and be quiet if you don’t have anything to say. Your “point of view” is so known and familiar that we are sick of it. It is plain stupid to just thump one’s chest and say “my windows is better” or “my linux is better”, but it is just an easy way of feigning maturity, and equally stupid to yell that “I’m just so tired of all this win vs. linux chest-thumping.”
We are here to determine, to have better knowledge of, and to draw conclusions on “what is wrong with linux” or “what linux could do better” and other questions like these. Have the most intelligent and exact discussion on how bloated, bad, ugly or wrong is linux on the desktop. Bring out your best musings and let the knowledge increase.
Take a note: my suggested improvements were all for making linux _better_, not “like windows” or “like OS X.”
Ummmm… I thought the whole point of software was to automate tasks so you could be lazy.
No, you have it all wrong! How are you supposed to grow hair on your chest if you use automation?
Apt, Yum, all for sissies! Compile it yourself, wimp! Linux is a man’s OS!
Why England isn’t ready to be a country
The issues fall into four basic categories: migration, stability, simplicity, and comfort. These issues each cover both technical capability shortcomings as well as usability failings.
The first issue, migration, is pretty serious.
For “regular people” to move over to England (which usually means leaving their home), it is going to need a serious migration plan. The country will need to install transports next to the home country, leaving that completely intact and easy to return to, and carry over all or nearly all of the citizens’s data and belongings.
The second problem that blocks massive growth of England is stability.
I’m talking about a stable currency that doesn’t require the citizen jump through hoops when they want to make a new purchase from Ebay.com.
A citizen should be able to have a purchase work without the need for converting weight systems or whatever.
The third issue is a lack of simplicity.
Just because you can include a fancy word doesn’t mean that you should. Just because you can provide a snorky accent doesn’t mean you should.
The final major issue is comfort.
England must feel comfortable to new citizens. Most people using cars today have been at it for a while now and they’ve been at it on the right side of the road. Don’t mess with their basic understanding of how things work. Regular people do not know what it means to “use a shift-stick” and they shouldn’t have to.
They don’t want their steering wheel on the other side — tossing out years of finely-tuned driving memory. They shouldn’t have to learn what automibile means or how it differs from car. They don’t want two words that seem to constantly overlap each other.
If England makes major inroads on the world population, it will probably be as a result of the same kind of focus that put USA on tens of millions of peoples tickets, a focus on migration, stability, simplicity, and comfort.
lord help old england…. I bet they didnt even know they weren’t ready to be a country. All them sad people living there, not surviving, not able to work and get the same stuff done that is so easy in another country. I know people that have moved from there to here and thank the light they did so. What would they have done to stay in a country that is like sooooo not a country! Strange tho that it has lasted this long, strange that people move TO there, strange…..
how on earth will linux oops i mean england survive….
The command line is both a curse and a blessing. It is a blessing to those of us that know the commands and how to use them. But it is a curse becuase we have reply on them too much. The adverage computer user out there doen’t know or want to know commands. They want to point and click.
hell, I’m tired of the command line too. I moved to Ubuntu after using slackware for years just got get away from it. I’m tired of typing all that crap and I’ve been doing it for over 10 years. And yet, even with Ubuntu, I find there are just some things that can only be done with commands. Rats.
IMO, Linux won’t be adopted by the masses until the command line goes away. That’s right. It has to go before Linux will be adopted in great numbers. Don’t believe me? Think about it. Windows took off like a rocket when it reached 3.0 because users could do everything they needed and never had to look at a dos commmand prompt.
Point ‘n click is the way to linux success. Not hunt and peck.
Point ‘n click is the way to linux success. Not hunt and peck.
But I type faster then I point and click
Why do you want to slow me down?
I mean. Yeah, go out and make you joe-user-perfect-mouse-only linux, but don’t take away any of the tools and features that made me like linux – command line, simple text-based configuration files, package managers, package repositories, reasonable directory structure.
I actually don’t care, whether linux gets adopted by the masses or not. If it gets adopted in its current form – cool with me. If it has to become a windows-clone with one graphical environment only, with the necessity to download each application separately (for the sake of having setup.exe some people are used to), with applications linked statically or each having its libraries in its own dir – then I’ll have to find myself another OS. Not for sake of being different or out of the main-stream, but for the sake of having an OS that makes sense to me and does not slow me down…
That was the wittiest thing I’ve read in OSNews for a long time.
As a matter of fact, the only witty thing I’ve read in here ever :/
Why Linux Isn’t Ready for MY Desktop
I mean we could all pick apart our non-favorite whatever and come up with numerous reasons why it is not “ready” but it would still only be our reasons not someone elses…
I love these articles, i mean if NO ONE was using linux then I would think they have a point! But considering a fair number of people use it then it obviously IS ready for the desktop, at least the people using it….
is my logic flawed…
I love how an article containing the word “Linux” will bring a slew of comments, usually in the hundreds. What this guy wrote is true. The Linux community wants people to switch to Linux but they don’t offer the users anything viable to switch to. Apple only started with their “Switch to Apple” campaign not that long ago. People switched to Mac or simply used it because it was good, because it’s still good and it had what it is they wanted/expected. I’m not saying that Linux isn’t good but I mean if you want people to switch to Linux then by golly give them something to switch to and that’s what the point of the article is. I’ve been “using” Linux for a few years now, and I do say “using”, and it’s got its ups and downs but I’m certainly not going to format my NTFS partition and just use Linux and never play my barrage of games again and use my smorgasbord of programs as well. To get down to it, there’s nothing at the moment to completely switch to. Is there something to use in conjunction with Windows? Sure, I’ll use Linux along with Windows, learn it but I highly doubt that I’ll be switching completely to Linux, MacOS “maybe” (and that’s a big maybe) but not Linux.
a desktop system should have programs like
Adobe Photoshop, Macromedia Dreamweaver, MS Internet EXplorer, MS Office, and so on.
I know only two system which are really useable for work: MS Windows and Mac OS X.
So thats the real reason why Linux isn’t useable as a desktop system for me.
I don’t see how his inability to maneuver a mouse when Bill Gates isn’t patting him on the back will affect me.
‘If I’m a retarded Mozilla developer and can’t operate a mouse that’s Linux’s fault.’
‘If Bill Gates gets mad at me and doesn’t take me on a moonlit carriage ride for trying FC that’s Torvalds’ fault. He is obviously jealous of our undying love and trying to separate us.’
The only thing he’s doing with this article is licking Bill Gate’s boots as many others have done. Windows is going to be replaced by Linux and Mac OS X soon and Microsoft and it’s contracted freelance writers will have to deal with it.
“I’m a developer for Mozilla.”
So? My dog could figure out linux better than you and he wouldn’t be a worthless tool publishing BS articles either.
—————————
I don’t care if Asa is crying because Bill Gates bit his co** off either.
a desktop system should have programs like
the gimp, Nvu/bluefish, firefox/mozilla/skipstone/dillo, openoffice/gnumeric/abiword/, and so on.
I know only two system which are really useable for work: linux and bsd
So thats the real reason why windows isn’t useable as a desktop system for me…..
(all this on a students budget as well)