Before you start typing, I would think (hope?) that the first thing on the agenda is to familiarize yourself with the product you’re reviewing rather than saw you couldn’t find one of the most fundamental new aspects of the operating system. Yes, I’m talking about spotlight… and no… it’s not “searchlight”. Sigh…
Its this kindof of product review that feeds the misinformation campaign that so many people on the internet mistakenly spread after reading this nonsense.
The sad thing is that some of the moderators are likely to mod you down for being so abrasive when in fact the response you gave was absolutely 100% spot on. These guys are indeed a bunch of crackpots.
The fact that they made so many mistakes and did so over four pages is, well…sad to say the least.
“Spotlight is still rudimentary. Microsoft’s plans for Longhorn go way past this. It’s not that I dislike Spotlight, it’s just that it feels like Google Desktop Search grafted onto the Mac. Longhorn intends to bake desktop search into the structure of the entire user interface. It’s not one search point for your data, but an entire UI strategy that offers more than a dozen serious changes and new features for associating and finding data.”
In which way Longhorn will. tell us!!!! What a piece of bullshit to say that Spotlight is a Google desktop garfted onto the mac. Spotlight goes well over the google desktop search. Spotlight is fully integrated into the os, its provides a full API, and a full file system notification that google does not provde. And what about smart folders that are very cool, and really change the way to organize, manage and share the data. What is this “structure of the entire user interface” that Lonhorn promises, Spotlight is already well integrated wher it needs to, the Finder, the Smart folders are good examples. Spotlight is also integrated in the dialog box for saving or opening a file.
Since Microsoft will not provide winfs with Longhorn, i don’t see what really Longhor will provide that is better than Tiger. The last demo shown by Microsoft did not present any thing really different that Tiger already does.
“One thing the Mac can’t compete with at the moment on the server side is 64-bit Windows.”
Oh, really, why? Tiger Server is 64 bits, and gives to windows a run for his money…..
Until Panther Apple has made a great work: it wasn’t an easy task to merge all those heterogenous components from NeXTSTEP, FreeBSD, Java and the old Mac Toolbox’s API revived under Carbon.
Tiger should have been the occasion to propose new system languages, new IDEs, new authoring environments (like OpenDOC or HyperCard tried to did in the past) but the new Widgets (simple JavaScripts), the Automator (ugly GUI), Core Image (rough subsystem of the OpenGL Shading Language), Quartz Composer (PixelShox recycled) or Core Data (WebObjects recycled for local databases) are very ordinary technologies. The Spotlight integration with Finder isn’t that impressive and is blatantly much inferior to the BeOS Tracker, where you could create your own FileTypes, decide what column attributes to display (and how) and navigate through the live queries by using the comfortable contextual menus. Eight years ago.
I thought that this article was an interesting enough read. It’s strange that they thought that sorting files by name in folders and on the desktop and organising by thread in Mail were new features in Tiger. You can deffinately do this in Panther.
Also, you can drag widgets from Dashboard to the desktop.
Still though, I think you are all blowing this out of proportion. It’s no Ars Technica article but it’s better than most computer articles.
@Hakime
The guy was only talking about the interface of Spotlight feeling like it was added on. He wasn’t talking about how the search tool was implemented. He was talking about how he felt it wasn’t integrated enough into other apps and the general desktop.
They all noted the speed increases, I think I might take the plunge and upgrade to Tiger…
So a couple of guys coming from different backrounds take Tiger for a spin and take some notes about their experiences while playing with it. Though they might make some mistakes and though they might not like everything, they all get away with a very positive impression.
But, for whatever reason, probably because they dare not to be blown away by some things, Apple fanatics come out in force bashing the article and the authors.
Fanatics getting all worked up about nothing is just fun to watch. Thanks guys.
BeOS was great, but I will take OSX any day over it. They were technically superior in many aspects but truth is it failed.
BTW Spotlight has to be the brainchild from Dominic Gianpaolo, he fixed the BeFS now he is fixing the HFS+, I hope he has even more tricks in his hat.
About lognhorn … why do not we just wait? lets compare him with tiger when its out, maybe we will have to compare it to the OSX 10.5 … so do not waste to many braincells over it.
“Sorry to burst you bubble, but OS X Server 10.4 is not a 64bit operating system.”
Please go to check again, and after burst your own bubble, right?. The kernel of Tiger server is full 64 bits, and allow any thread to adress memory in 64 bits. Osx kernel supports addressing of 16 exabytes of virtual memory and 4 terabytes of physical memory….
The 64 bits implementation in Tiger only allows 64 threads through the command line , so that any 64 bits thread is not able to run in a user interface using higher level APIs as Carbon or Cocoa. That’s not a bad thing, any way the 64 bits apps that needs to adress more than 4 go of memory usually runs in a non-gui mode as scientific data processing applications, rendering engines, and high load servers. And from now those threads running in the command line can communicate to a Gui app to display results via Mach message passing.
I believe that’s enough and apple has the time to implement the 64 bit support higher into the os, when 64 bits apps will find any larger need that today. For the moment 64 apps are only needed for very demanding apps.
There is no need of 64 bits mail, or word processing, or web browser apps, that just bulshit marketing….
The point of CoreImage/video, CoreData, is not on what they are based, you missed the point, and i am pretty sure that you never used those technologies to really appreciate them. Hopfully they are based on standarts, Apple does not have to and does not want to reinvente again and agein the wheel in the risk that the plateforme can be isolated by using technologies that are not universal or portable or whatever. The point of those technologies is that they allow to do things that was not possible to do before, and they allow to do it quickly, and easily.
The strategy is to leaverage technologies in order that developpers and users can use them in a more efficient way. CoreImage is all OpenGl, SIMD processing. Try to do by yourself a SIMD accelerated image processing application based with OpenGl. Well, you may be able to do it if but to what expenses. CoreImage gives you the power of OpenGl, and SIMD processing (eithe throught the video card or Alitvec) to do things really cool. It opens a completely new generation of image and video processing applications, just hava a look to Motion, or FinalCut.
The same thing for the CoreData, give a technology to developers that they can use for managing their data in their apps in a radically new and effective way. CoreData is not a recycled webobjetcs, come on, they don’t serve the same applications. I would rather say that CoreData use a philosophy close to Webobjetcs.
Same thing for Dashborad. Dasboard are not only javascripts, you don’t know what you are talking about. Dashboard leaverage Webcore, Quicktime, Quartz, and Cocoa. Its again all about what we can do for giving developpers a way to easily and quickly develops widgets. And it works, look the number of widgets that have been developped so far!!!!
“The guy was only talking about the interface of Spotlight feeling like it was added on. He wasn’t talking about how the search tool was implemented. He was talking about how he felt it wasn’t integrated enough into other apps and the general desktop. ”
Which app, where in the desktop. I am agree to say that everything can be discussed, but its not enough to say just things without to provide arguments.
Spotlight is integrated in Preferences, Mail, AdressBook. Searching is also integrated in Ical, Iphoto, Itunes, etc….you can also, for example, define you own attributes that Spotlight uses for searching for your photos directly in Iphoto, and etc…I think is worth to mention it, and after we can discuss where else it would be nice to have Spotlight.
innovation: it’s based on Panther’s Search Kit which has
very ancients roots. ”
Yes you are right, Search kit find its roots in AIAT, which find his roots in the file content search and index technologies that have been developped since Copland!!!! What Spotlight brings to Searck kit, well SPEED, of course Spotlight uses Serch kit for content searrch and file indexing, but its has been very optimized for Spotlight. For exemple content indexing is much faster (and its really much!!) than it used to be in Panther.
“All Tiger kernels are unified for working still on G3s. ”
Its amazing, and what? What’s the point. What are the Tiger kernels, there is one kernel for both Tiger client and Tiger server. Yes Tiger is working on G3s, but it does not prevent it to support 64 bits addressing. The limitation comes form the apps. Of course an app that requires 64 bits adressing will not work on a 32 bits cpu, if there is not a binary of this app compiled to work on 32 bits hardware which is provided. Tiger supports Fat binaries, any developper can provide a 32 and 64 bits version of his app, the system will load the appropriate code without any user intervention.
God dammed, i am developer i know what i am talking about. You don’t believe, go and check apple developpers web site, or go to read the arstechnica article about Tiger.
“Core Image is a very limited sub-standard of the OpenGL
Shading Language: all the 3D functionalities has been
stripped off.”
Damm!!!! The images processing kernel of Coreimage are written in Clkernel. The CIKernel Language is a C-like language that is a derivative of the more general purpose OpenGL Shading Language. It includes only those features that are needed for image processing and omits the OpenGL Shading Language features that are related to 3D operations. CoreImage is for image processing, so what for to keep 3D operations?? You want to use 3D operations, well use the full OpenGL.
“Its basic paradigms are the same of the NeXT’s Enterprise
Objects Framwork on which WebObjects is based: Apple has
adapted it for managing local XML and SQLite databases.
Converting the EOF totally in Java has been a real bad
move (such the Cocoa-Java bridge which very few
applications are using) and Apple is simply tring to
WebCore = KHTML + KJS. QuickTime doesn’t even support the
lates Flash 7 and much of the glossy look is due to
retouched bitmaps, not real-time rendered vector graphics.”
Webcore =KHTML+KJS (roughly speaking as webcore has much evolved since the original KHTML and KJS). But anyway you statement tells us that dashboard is not only javascript, isn’t.
“Retouched bitmaps”, well you are funny. The drawing methods provided closely follow the capabilities of Quartz and provide the ability to composite images, draw antialiased lines, and even create complex quadratic-based paths. Any UNIX command or script, including those written in sh, tcsh, bash, tcl, Perl, or Ruby as well as AppleScript, can be accessed from the widget object. And so one. Wou can also access to Quicktime, or CoreImage. Quicktime does not support the last flash 7 yet, and what? It does not prevent you to have quicktime content rendered in you widget…..
Since these “reviewers” are ninnies I’ll sum up Tiger. Since I have benchmarked every Mac OS X version.
It’s considerably faster than Panther, even on a lot of older Mac’s in the User Interface and CPU tests. PowerMac G5’s see a added other slight performance increases. That alone is worth it’s cost and you don’t need a faster machine all that sooner.
Dashboard changes the way we do things, it’s strange using a widget instead of going to Google Maps or Pictures (you do wind up there eventually) or a icon in the Dock, but it’s very nice, especially if you have a large screen to keep a couple of dozen widgets active. I have found I use command option 8 and +/- to zoom into these tiny widgets. They need to have a bigger option and the ability to increase text size. That will come in time.
You can put a widget on the desktop by dragging it’s icon out of the widget bar and pressing your Dashboard hot key. It won’t stay there long, just until you hit the Dashboard again or drag it and hit dashboard. So no more than one on the desktop, it’s a bug perhaps, but a useful bug.
You can also disable Dashboard and Spotlight if it’s slowing or hogging your RAM via the command line.
Spotlight is very nice, it’s fast as all heck. But it’s just a improvement on search, if you keep your data organized then there shouldn’t be a need to use it too much, unless you really have a load of stuff, then it will be indispensable.
There has been a lot of under the hood changes, Mail looks terrible, there is so many mixes of styles, including apparently a serious blue grey look, that it’s frightening that we may lose our unique to attract corporate sales. (meaning Dull and depressing)
Safari’s RSS feeds are most excellent, iPhoto has a email button that will take a large image and scale it down to a certain size for easy emailing. No more trips to Photoshop. Just select photos and click and write your email, the photo’s are there for you. This sort of integration is just wonderful.
Automater I haven’t completely explored yet, I was hoping for a mouse recording actions which I can have in a list to edit or re-arrange and one button compile a script or something in addition to it’s present features.
This way I could select a X amount of iPhotos, hit the script and it would smartly size them and convert to jpegs, upload them to my website. Guess it will take some more time to learn how with AppleScript, I rather do it by hand.
PodCasting is cool, that’s all I need to say. Audiobooks are very good as well, but pricey and sometimes the voices…We are so used to paying cheap for audio and music. $18 for audiobook seems terribly expensive.
Over all Mac OS X Tiger simply blows XP away, in security, features and everything else except buffer overflows and viruses.
I have seen previews of IE 7, it’s a just a bad copy of Safari, complete with almost the same looking window.
Longhorn previews I have seen, with it’s ugly color scheme and sidebar with a clock (so you can agonize how slow your work day is going) and low grade bit mapped looking icons is so far from completion it’s not even silly.
Mac OS X should be on “Leopard” by the time “Longhorn” is even released and bug tested.
>One of the file system tweaks I mentioned before involves support for Access Control Lists, which is a huge improvement over Unix permissions and makes Active Directory integration much easier.
Ok…how does filesystem ACLs help with integrating w/Active Directory??? LDAP/kerberos = filesystem ACLs?????
Its integrated into OSX! Just select the text when you fill in this comment section right click (Apple sell a two button mouse as standard dammit!) and select spell check from the menu. Cool Huh?
However, what I don’t like about OSX is that the HOME and END buttons don’t work in their apps! ARRGH! Better in some placed and worse in others. Since I can’t spell I will consider it a good trade off.
The screenshot isn’t of spotlite but of search using the finder!!! hehe Don’t be too hard on them. This is what a newbie would go through when checking out the Mac OS. But from what I’ve been reading their not new to the platform. So why the amateurish review.
Dude 1: Wow, awesome! Tiger. This is a Mac, right?
Dude 2: Sure is. I see the logo. Whatcha think, Dude 3?
Dude 3: Man, I just loaded this thing. I really don’t see anything new here. Bummer!
Dude 4: Dude, that’s a Playstation you’ve got there.
Dude 3: Oh, sorry.
Dude 1: So there you have it! Our conversation on Tiger. Come back in 2006 for an equally inane review of Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard.
Dude 2: But stay tuned. After the break, we’ll be discussing the resignation od Supreme Court Justice Sandra O’Connor, the first woman to serve on the nation’s highest court.
>> It includes only those features that are needed for image processing
>> and omits the OpenGL Shading Language features that are related to
>> 3D operations
>So its graphic capabilities are limited and aren’t leveraging what
>the recent graphic cards are offering. That’s what I wrote: Apple
>is overhyping ordinary technologies: creative professionals and
>hard gamers can find on cheap PCs much superior solutions
>from the same ATI and NVIDIA.
Michele, how can you perform a Gaussian blur in OpenGL? or adjust exposure? What about posterising and compositing?
CoreImage is not just a cut-down OpenGL. Apple provide OpenGL in full. It’s not just a cut-down OpenGL Slang either, because the shading language does not provide the algorithms, only the means to implement them.
CoreImage is a tool for improving development time for graphics apps. It doesn’t do anything magical, although it’s nice that it does it on the GPU when it can, or devolves to the CPU when it can’t.
And what does the line about Apple offering over-hyped tools that you can find on PCs mean? You can find them on the Mac too, and you’ve had them for ages. The new thing is that you don’t have to screw around with the set-up behind OpenGL or worry about the display. CoreImage doesn’t even have to be run on displayed images. Instead, you get to use a lot of the image-processing power in your apps for almost no effort.
So what exactly are the technologies that everyone’s had for ages? The OpenGL Slang is nice, but in and of itself gives you very little. You have to go out and write all the shaders yourself. What’s left?
” “A single version of the operating system. From G3 to G5, from
| iBook to Xserve, there is just one kernel and set of core system
| libraries for Tiger.”
There’s a unified kernel for all the current platforms and there’s
no peculiar optimization for the G5. That’s what I wrote.
”
What you should do, is to go, take a book, and read what 64 bits computing is. ok? I am tired of those ignorant trolly boys that don’t even know what the question is about but anyway they try hard to be right. So what is your point to refer to this quotation? Do you understand it? I dont think so, and i dont think that you know what 64 bits means either. So go here
Os x kernel (by the way do you know what is a kernel, i dont think so, but anyway) support G3, G4, G5, that’s right, but it does not mean that it does not support G5 optmizations. Osx has many Altivec code around many layers sine the G4 came out (specially in the graphic and media layer), but it still runs on G3.
Its not because windows 64 bits runs only on x86-64 that a 64 bits Osx should only run on G5. Windows kernel is junk, sorry for that????
I tell you again, go, take a book about computing science, read it a little bit, and come back to talk with me. Don’t just base your arguments on pc magazine for pc trolls like you. Learn real computing science.
We are running an ice sheet simulation model, well that’s a big baby, takes several weeks to complete, you know, it deals with matrix computation, numerical algebra, and those kind of nice things. This code runs in command line, and since Tiger came out, we built a 64 bits version of it. Our model can now adress (i assume that you know what does it mean, otherwise check the book, don’t forget the book, right?) more than 4 go of RAM. This code is multithreaded, and of course not all the thread needs to adress in 64 bits. Only the threads that deal with lage amount of data, specially multiplication, and factorization of large matrix is running in 64 bits. Our code can now adress around 8 Go of data when running on the Xserve. The reslults are send to a GUI based app written in Cocoa, using Mach message passing.
And now you, the whatever troll, come here, and says me that Tiger’s kernel is not 64 bits. Well again, go and check what 64 bits means…..you really s…..
“So its graphic capabilities are limited and aren’t leveraging what
the recent graphic cards are offering. That’s what I wrote: Apple
is overhyping ordinary technologies: creative professionals and
hard gamers can find on cheap PCs much superior solutions
from the same ATI and NVIDIA. ”
You don’t understand what CoreImage does my friend. Coreimage is an API that gives you all what you need to create apps that have to deal with heavy image or video processing. CoreImage leaverage OpenGl and the Shading Langage, for image and video processing. What you get is real time processing, floating point support, pixel based, image processing technology.
CoreImage uses the SIMD processing engines of todays graphics card or processors to give you real time and floating point image processing. CoreImage scales with you hardware, and take automatically the best of your newest graphical card. Buy the last generation of card, and CoreImage and performances that you get scale with it
Why are you talking about gaming? Coreimage is not about gaming, why do you talk about things that you dont understand? Its about Image and video processing and allows developers to build more quickly and efficiently those kind of apps that have to deal with image and video processing, do you understand english?, they get automatic built-in image units, they can build their own image units, and they get automatic support for hardware processing.
DirectX is not the same, Dirext is for 3D (actually Directx is just for games so far), windows do not provide you with an hardware accelerated, high precision image and video processing API. Otherwise give the name of it. But take car, before take the book, and check what is OpenGl, what is image processing, etc, and go here
“Core Data and EOF (the Enterprise Objects Framework that ships with
| WebObjects) share a common heritage, but have different goals.”
That’s what I wrote. Core Data isn’t a totally new technology and recycles
many portions of the code Apple acquired from NeXT. ”
No read the doc until the end and try to understand it. Yes it uses many technologies already implemented with Next, but you see that as i told you coredata and EOF have different goals. You said in your previous message that it was the same. And moreover being based on some next technologies do not remove the big benefits that CoreData brings to developpers. And again CoreData is built around many Cocoa technologies that do not exist in Nextstep. Read the doc….
“The only widget which is drawing smoothed lines is the Word Clock.
All the other ones are using pre-rendered PNGs or TIFFs. ”
Ahh here we go, its already something different compared to what you said previously. We went from no quartz based widgets to the only Word Clock. Well go and use osx, the Weather, the Flight Tracker, the Thesaurus widgets, etc, are quartz based rendered. What is the pre-rendered PNGs or TIFFs, what does it mean? It no sense…. Go and chek the book….
“As in Macromedia Flex, Flash “applets” are nowadays used to provide
compelling rich user interfaces and you can author them in advanced IDEs
by leveraging Java application servers. This is not what Apple is offering
exactly with the Xcode support for widget developers.”
Did you use Xcode? I dont think so….. Widgets can provide already rich user interface by using Cocoa and Quartz, as dashboard can use them for building widgets. I cant see what this Laszlo’s Dashboard has particluar. The rendering layer is ugly, the interface seems to be quite basic, what is the rich user interface you are tlaking about.
Ok, so my best advice for you, is: just try to read some documentations, stop to base your arguments on conversations that you had with other trolls like you, read the book, switch on your brain…….
Have a nice day, say hello to the trolls world out there….
Hakime, you need to remember Gary’s First Law of Forum Commentary:
“Actual experience in the field, managing a problem day-to-day or creating valid solutions that work and are implemented completely is far less important than what some guy tells you on a thread somewhere on the Internet, or what you read somewhere in a magazine quoting an unnamed source.”
People prefer not to listen to actual developers when it comes to coding. They’d rather regurgitate stuff they heard somewhere, don’t really understand too well and backs their biases.
“DirectX is not the same, Dirext is for 3D (actually Directx is just for games so far), windows do not provide you with an hardware accelerated, high precision image and video processing API. Otherwise give the name of it. But ”
DirectX isn’t “for 3D”. Direct3D – a part of DirectX – is.
It’s used for more than just *games*, kid. There are high-performance image processing libraries available for Windows from Intel (IPL) and Microsoft’s DirectShow (part of DirectX).
“take car, before take the book, and check what is OpenGl, what is image processing, etc, and go here ”
I’ve been writing software using the OpenGL API for 10 years…. I think I have a pretty good handle on what it is. Somehow, I don’t think you’re an actual developer.
“Ok, so my best advice for you, is: just try to read some documentations, stop to base your arguments on conversations that you had with other trolls like you, read the book, switch on your brain……. ”
“People prefer not to listen to actual developers when it comes to coding. They’d rather regurgitate stuff they heard somewhere, don’t really understand too well and backs their biases.”
Gary, what makes you think Hakime here is an “actual developer”? Wishful thinking? He backs YOUR biases?
Hey, relax. No one is claiming that there aren’t any image processing libraries on Windows. The nice thing about Core Image is that it is part of the OS. IPP isn’t part of the OS and is a separate download. It also isn’t free for commercial use. I’ve never used DirectShow so I can’t comment on it.
Core Image doesn’t do anything you can’t already do. What it provides is a simple to use image processing API that is well optimized and offloads the image processing work to the GPU. Something the Intel IPP doesn’t do. With Core Image, image processing becomes more accessible to programmers who don’t specialize in computer vision.
“Hey, relax. No one is claiming that there aren’t any image processing libraries on Windows. The nice thing about Core Image is that it is part of the OS. IPP isn’t part of the OS and is a separate download. It also isn’t free for commercial use. I’ve never used DirectShow so I can’t comment on it. ”
Actually, I believe Hakime made the claim that there isn’t anything similar to CoreImage on Windows. That is false.
“With Core Image, image processing becomes more accessible to programmers who don’t specialize in computer vision”
Sounds like DirectShow. This isn’t anything particularly new or special.
Is there a DirectShow Hardware Compatibility List (HCL)?
No. DirectShow uses Microsoft® DirectDraw® and Microsoft® DirectSound® hardware capabilities if they are available. When no special hardware is available, DirectShow uses GDI to draw video and the waveOut* multimedia APIs to play audio.
It uses DirectDraw and DirectSound, no mention of Direct3D. Core Image makes use of the shader facilities of the newish video cards to do a lot of the operations, hence it is only supported on the nVidia FX series and ATI Radeons above the RV250 core (9500 and up) and basically any other card that comes with a programmable GPU. Unless DirectShow actually does that, I think Apple is right (for once?) in claiming that there is nothing similar to Core Image on Windows.
When they were integrated, DirectGraphics was created. Since DirectShow clearly leaves out Direct3D, and makes no mention of HLSL or hardware that requires HLSL, does it really support HLSL? Do you have any proof that it does since I can’t find any proof of it in the MSDN documentation?
There are fans of any OS that can’t be reasoned with. Is it really so bad that Apple may have actually come out with a library that has no equivalent on any other OS? Is that so impossible?
I’m not convinced that Core Image and DirectShow do the same things. DirectShow looks more like a general multimedia codec library (dealing with sound, video,etc), with some filters. Here’s a list of supported http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/di… Core” rel=”nofollow”>http://developer.apple.com/macosx/coreimage.html>Core Image filters.
“I’m not convinced that Core Image and DirectShow do the same things.”
It’s more like the DirectX framework encompasses CoreImage and CoreVideo capabilities in one API suite. The reason you don’t see this marketed to users is that said users shouldn’t really have to care about APIs.
What a bunch of idiotic crackpot reviewers.
Before you start typing, I would think (hope?) that the first thing on the agenda is to familiarize yourself with the product you’re reviewing rather than saw you couldn’t find one of the most fundamental new aspects of the operating system. Yes, I’m talking about spotlight… and no… it’s not “searchlight”. Sigh…
Its this kindof of product review that feeds the misinformation campaign that so many people on the internet mistakenly spread after reading this nonsense.
The sad thing is that some of the moderators are likely to mod you down for being so abrasive when in fact the response you gave was absolutely 100% spot on. These guys are indeed a bunch of crackpots.
The fact that they made so many mistakes and did so over four pages is, well…sad to say the least.
“Spotlight is still rudimentary. Microsoft’s plans for Longhorn go way past this. It’s not that I dislike Spotlight, it’s just that it feels like Google Desktop Search grafted onto the Mac. Longhorn intends to bake desktop search into the structure of the entire user interface. It’s not one search point for your data, but an entire UI strategy that offers more than a dozen serious changes and new features for associating and finding data.”
In which way Longhorn will. tell us!!!! What a piece of bullshit to say that Spotlight is a Google desktop garfted onto the mac. Spotlight goes well over the google desktop search. Spotlight is fully integrated into the os, its provides a full API, and a full file system notification that google does not provde. And what about smart folders that are very cool, and really change the way to organize, manage and share the data. What is this “structure of the entire user interface” that Lonhorn promises, Spotlight is already well integrated wher it needs to, the Finder, the Smart folders are good examples. Spotlight is also integrated in the dialog box for saving or opening a file.
Since Microsoft will not provide winfs with Longhorn, i don’t see what really Longhor will provide that is better than Tiger. The last demo shown by Microsoft did not present any thing really different that Tiger already does.
“One thing the Mac can’t compete with at the moment on the server side is 64-bit Windows.”
Oh, really, why? Tiger Server is 64 bits, and gives to windows a run for his money…..
Until Panther Apple has made a great work: it wasn’t an easy task to merge all those heterogenous components from NeXTSTEP, FreeBSD, Java and the old Mac Toolbox’s API revived under Carbon.
Tiger should have been the occasion to propose new system languages, new IDEs, new authoring environments (like OpenDOC or HyperCard tried to did in the past) but the new Widgets (simple JavaScripts), the Automator (ugly GUI), Core Image (rough subsystem of the OpenGL Shading Language), Quartz Composer (PixelShox recycled) or Core Data (WebObjects recycled for local databases) are very ordinary technologies. The Spotlight integration with Finder isn’t that impressive and is blatantly much inferior to the BeOS Tracker, where you could create your own FileTypes, decide what column attributes to display (and how) and navigate through the live queries by using the comfortable contextual menus. Eight years ago.
Sorry to burst you bubble, but OS X Server 10.4 is not a 64bit operating system.
I thought that this article was an interesting enough read. It’s strange that they thought that sorting files by name in folders and on the desktop and organising by thread in Mail were new features in Tiger. You can deffinately do this in Panther.
Also, you can drag widgets from Dashboard to the desktop.
Still though, I think you are all blowing this out of proportion. It’s no Ars Technica article but it’s better than most computer articles.
@Hakime
The guy was only talking about the interface of Spotlight feeling like it was added on. He wasn’t talking about how the search tool was implemented. He was talking about how he felt it wasn’t integrated enough into other apps and the general desktop.
They all noted the speed increases, I think I might take the plunge and upgrade to Tiger…
Ohh yesss, the old BeOS myths. Here we go again.
BeOS did it all, scan the contents of documents, store the attributes of documents, search within documents….
The only things I can remember from my old BeOS days are an unfinished API in some parts of the OS and an ugly and instable Tracker.
Are command line tools available for BeOS that give you access to your database file system?
Tools that let you search inside of files?
An API so that you can extend the search in files?
So a couple of guys coming from different backrounds take Tiger for a spin and take some notes about their experiences while playing with it. Though they might make some mistakes and though they might not like everything, they all get away with a very positive impression.
But, for whatever reason, probably because they dare not to be blown away by some things, Apple fanatics come out in force bashing the article and the authors.
Fanatics getting all worked up about nothing is just fun to watch. Thanks guys.
BeOS was great, but I will take OSX any day over it. They were technically superior in many aspects but truth is it failed.
BTW Spotlight has to be the brainchild from Dominic Gianpaolo, he fixed the BeFS now he is fixing the HFS+, I hope he has even more tricks in his hat.
About lognhorn … why do not we just wait? lets compare him with tiger when its out, maybe we will have to compare it to the OSX 10.5 … so do not waste to many braincells over it.
“Sorry to burst you bubble, but OS X Server 10.4 is not a 64bit operating system.”
Please go to check again, and after burst your own bubble, right?. The kernel of Tiger server is full 64 bits, and allow any thread to adress memory in 64 bits. Osx kernel supports addressing of 16 exabytes of virtual memory and 4 terabytes of physical memory….
The 64 bits implementation in Tiger only allows 64 threads through the command line , so that any 64 bits thread is not able to run in a user interface using higher level APIs as Carbon or Cocoa. That’s not a bad thing, any way the 64 bits apps that needs to adress more than 4 go of memory usually runs in a non-gui mode as scientific data processing applications, rendering engines, and high load servers. And from now those threads running in the command line can communicate to a Gui app to display results via Mach message passing.
I believe that’s enough and apple has the time to implement the 64 bit support higher into the os, when 64 bits apps will find any larger need that today. For the moment 64 apps are only needed for very demanding apps.
There is no need of 64 bits mail, or word processing, or web browser apps, that just bulshit marketing….
The point of CoreImage/video, CoreData, is not on what they are based, you missed the point, and i am pretty sure that you never used those technologies to really appreciate them. Hopfully they are based on standarts, Apple does not have to and does not want to reinvente again and agein the wheel in the risk that the plateforme can be isolated by using technologies that are not universal or portable or whatever. The point of those technologies is that they allow to do things that was not possible to do before, and they allow to do it quickly, and easily.
The strategy is to leaverage technologies in order that developpers and users can use them in a more efficient way. CoreImage is all OpenGl, SIMD processing. Try to do by yourself a SIMD accelerated image processing application based with OpenGl. Well, you may be able to do it if but to what expenses. CoreImage gives you the power of OpenGl, and SIMD processing (eithe throught the video card or Alitvec) to do things really cool. It opens a completely new generation of image and video processing applications, just hava a look to Motion, or FinalCut.
The same thing for the CoreData, give a technology to developers that they can use for managing their data in their apps in a radically new and effective way. CoreData is not a recycled webobjetcs, come on, they don’t serve the same applications. I would rather say that CoreData use a philosophy close to Webobjetcs.
Same thing for Dashborad. Dasboard are not only javascripts, you don’t know what you are talking about. Dashboard leaverage Webcore, Quicktime, Quartz, and Cocoa. Its again all about what we can do for giving developpers a way to easily and quickly develops widgets. And it works, look the number of widgets that have been developped so far!!!!
> Ohh yesss, the old BeOS myths. Here we go again.
BeOS and OS/2 supported metadata (or extended attributes)
eight years ago. Windows 98’s Active Desktop not only
supported DHTML eight years ago but also the Channels
subscriptions: what else are the “revolutionary” Podcasts
overhyped by Apple these days? Nothing else than the
“Push” technologies of eight years ago!
The extended attributes and the ACLs (Access Control
Lists) are being just started implementing and no, there’s
not yet a clean GUI for them in Tiger client.
> BeOS did it all, scan the contents of documents, store
> the attributes of documents, search within documents…
Searching inside the documents isn’t a Spotlight
innovation: it’s based on Panther’s Search Kit which has
very ancients roots.
“The guy was only talking about the interface of Spotlight feeling like it was added on. He wasn’t talking about how the search tool was implemented. He was talking about how he felt it wasn’t integrated enough into other apps and the general desktop. ”
Which app, where in the desktop. I am agree to say that everything can be discussed, but its not enough to say just things without to provide arguments.
Spotlight is integrated in Preferences, Mail, AdressBook. Searching is also integrated in Ical, Iphoto, Itunes, etc….you can also, for example, define you own attributes that Spotlight uses for searching for your photos directly in Iphoto, and etc…I think is worth to mention it, and after we can discuss where else it would be nice to have Spotlight.
“Searching inside the documents isn’t a Spotlight
innovation: it’s based on Panther’s Search Kit which has
very ancients roots. ”
Yes you are right, Search kit find its roots in AIAT, which find his roots in the file content search and index technologies that have been developped since Copland!!!! What Spotlight brings to Searck kit, well SPEED, of course Spotlight uses Serch kit for content searrch and file indexing, but its has been very optimized for Spotlight. For exemple content indexing is much faster (and its really much!!) than it used to be in Panther.
> The kernel of Tiger server is full 64 bits
All Tiger kernels are unified for working still on G3s.
> CoreImage/video: hopfully they are based on standards
Core Image is a very limited sub-standard of the OpenGL
Shading Language: all the 3D functionalities has been
stripped off.
> CoreData is not a recycled webobjetcs.
Its basic paradigms are the same of the NeXT’s Enterprise
Objects Framwork on which WebObjects is based: Apple has
adapted it for managing local XML and SQLite databases.
Converting the EOF totally in Java has been a real bad
move (such the Cocoa-Java bridge which very few
applications are using) and Apple is simply tring to
recover them under Objectice-C again.
> Dasboard are not only javascripts, you don’t know what
> you are talking about Dashboard leaverage Webcore,
> Quicktime, Quartz.
WebCore = KHTML + KJS. QuickTime doesn’t even support the
lates Flash 7 and much of the glossy look is due to
retouched bitmaps, not real-time rendered vector graphics.
could we have a spell-check button please?
“All Tiger kernels are unified for working still on G3s. ”
Its amazing, and what? What’s the point. What are the Tiger kernels, there is one kernel for both Tiger client and Tiger server. Yes Tiger is working on G3s, but it does not prevent it to support 64 bits addressing. The limitation comes form the apps. Of course an app that requires 64 bits adressing will not work on a 32 bits cpu, if there is not a binary of this app compiled to work on 32 bits hardware which is provided. Tiger supports Fat binaries, any developper can provide a 32 and 64 bits version of his app, the system will load the appropriate code without any user intervention.
God dammed, i am developer i know what i am talking about. You don’t believe, go and check apple developpers web site, or go to read the arstechnica article about Tiger.
“Core Image is a very limited sub-standard of the OpenGL
Shading Language: all the 3D functionalities has been
stripped off.”
Damm!!!! The images processing kernel of Coreimage are written in Clkernel. The CIKernel Language is a C-like language that is a derivative of the more general purpose OpenGL Shading Language. It includes only those features that are needed for image processing and omits the OpenGL Shading Language features that are related to 3D operations. CoreImage is for image processing, so what for to keep 3D operations?? You want to use 3D operations, well use the full OpenGL.
“Its basic paradigms are the same of the NeXT’s Enterprise
Objects Framwork on which WebObjects is based: Apple has
adapted it for managing local XML and SQLite databases.
Converting the EOF totally in Java has been a real bad
move (such the Cocoa-Java bridge which very few
applications are using) and Apple is simply tring to
recover them under Objectice-C again. ”
EOF do not serve the same thing as CoreData, go and check http://developer.apple.com/macosx/coredata.html to learn what it is about!!!
”
WebCore = KHTML + KJS. QuickTime doesn’t even support the
lates Flash 7 and much of the glossy look is due to
retouched bitmaps, not real-time rendered vector graphics.”
Webcore =KHTML+KJS (roughly speaking as webcore has much evolved since the original KHTML and KJS). But anyway you statement tells us that dashboard is not only javascript, isn’t.
“Retouched bitmaps”, well you are funny. The drawing methods provided closely follow the capabilities of Quartz and provide the ability to composite images, draw antialiased lines, and even create complex quadratic-based paths. Any UNIX command or script, including those written in sh, tcsh, bash, tcl, Perl, or Ruby as well as AppleScript, can be accessed from the widget object. And so one. Wou can also access to Quicktime, or CoreImage. Quicktime does not support the last flash 7 yet, and what? It does not prevent you to have quicktime content rendered in you widget…..
> You don’t believe, go and check apple developpers web site,
> or go to read the arstechnica article about Tiger.
From the general area of ADC
(http://developer.apple.com/macosx/64bit.html):
| “A single version of the operating system. From G3 to G5, from
| iBook to Xserve, there is just one kernel and set of core system
| libraries for Tiger.”
There’s a unified kernel for all the current platforms and there’s
no peculiar optimization for the G5. That’s what I wrote.
> It includes only those features that are needed for image processing
> and omits the OpenGL Shading Language features that are related to
> 3D operations
So its graphic capabilities are limited and aren’t leveraging what
the recent graphic cards are offering. That’s what I wrote: Apple
is overhyping ordinary technologies: creative professionals and
hard gamers can find on cheap PCs much superior solutions
from the same ATI and NVIDIA.
> EOF do not serve the same thing as CoreData
From http://developer.apple.com/documentation/Cocoa/Conceptual/CoreData/…
| “Core Data and EOF (the Enterprise Objects Framework that ships with
| WebObjects) share a common heritage, but have different goals.”
That’s what I wrote. Core Data isn’t a totally new technology and recycles
many portions of the code Apple acquired from NeXT.
> The drawing methods provided closely follow the capabilities of
> Quartz and provide the ability to composite images, draw antialiased lines
The only widget which is drawing smoothed lines is the Word Clock.
All the other ones are using pre-rendered PNGs or TIFFs.
> Quicktime does not support the last flash 7 yet, and what?
It doesn’t support JavaScript/ActionScript 2.0 which have been much
improved when compared to the many limitations of JavaScript 1.5.
Have a look to Laszlo’s Dashboard:
http://www.mylaszlo.com/lps-krank/sample-apps/dashboard/dashboard.l…
As in Macromedia Flex, Flash “applets” are nowadays used to provide
compelling rich user interfaces and you can author them in advanced IDEs
by leveraging Java application servers. This is not what Apple is offering
exactly with the Xcode support for widget developers.
Since these “reviewers” are ninnies I’ll sum up Tiger. Since I have benchmarked every Mac OS X version.
It’s considerably faster than Panther, even on a lot of older Mac’s in the User Interface and CPU tests. PowerMac G5’s see a added other slight performance increases. That alone is worth it’s cost and you don’t need a faster machine all that sooner.
Dashboard changes the way we do things, it’s strange using a widget instead of going to Google Maps or Pictures (you do wind up there eventually) or a icon in the Dock, but it’s very nice, especially if you have a large screen to keep a couple of dozen widgets active. I have found I use command option 8 and +/- to zoom into these tiny widgets. They need to have a bigger option and the ability to increase text size. That will come in time.
You can put a widget on the desktop by dragging it’s icon out of the widget bar and pressing your Dashboard hot key. It won’t stay there long, just until you hit the Dashboard again or drag it and hit dashboard. So no more than one on the desktop, it’s a bug perhaps, but a useful bug.
You can also disable Dashboard and Spotlight if it’s slowing or hogging your RAM via the command line.
Spotlight is very nice, it’s fast as all heck. But it’s just a improvement on search, if you keep your data organized then there shouldn’t be a need to use it too much, unless you really have a load of stuff, then it will be indispensable.
There has been a lot of under the hood changes, Mail looks terrible, there is so many mixes of styles, including apparently a serious blue grey look, that it’s frightening that we may lose our unique to attract corporate sales. (meaning Dull and depressing)
Safari’s RSS feeds are most excellent, iPhoto has a email button that will take a large image and scale it down to a certain size for easy emailing. No more trips to Photoshop. Just select photos and click and write your email, the photo’s are there for you. This sort of integration is just wonderful.
Automater I haven’t completely explored yet, I was hoping for a mouse recording actions which I can have in a list to edit or re-arrange and one button compile a script or something in addition to it’s present features.
This way I could select a X amount of iPhotos, hit the script and it would smartly size them and convert to jpegs, upload them to my website. Guess it will take some more time to learn how with AppleScript, I rather do it by hand.
PodCasting is cool, that’s all I need to say. Audiobooks are very good as well, but pricey and sometimes the voices…We are so used to paying cheap for audio and music. $18 for audiobook seems terribly expensive.
Over all Mac OS X Tiger simply blows XP away, in security, features and everything else except buffer overflows and viruses.
I have seen previews of IE 7, it’s a just a bad copy of Safari, complete with almost the same looking window.
Longhorn previews I have seen, with it’s ugly color scheme and sidebar with a clock (so you can agonize how slow your work day is going) and low grade bit mapped looking icons is so far from completion it’s not even silly.
Mac OS X should be on “Leopard” by the time “Longhorn” is even released and bug tested.
OK, they have made some mistakes, but I see no reason to go ballistic. We should gently advise them of their errors, that’s all.
>One of the file system tweaks I mentioned before involves support for Access Control Lists, which is a huge improvement over Unix permissions and makes Active Directory integration much easier.
Ok…how does filesystem ACLs help with integrating w/Active Directory??? LDAP/kerberos = filesystem ACLs?????
“could we have a spell-check button please?”
Its integrated into OSX! Just select the text when you fill in this comment section right click (Apple sell a two button mouse as standard dammit!) and select spell check from the menu. Cool Huh?
However, what I don’t like about OSX is that the HOME and END buttons don’t work in their apps! ARRGH! Better in some placed and worse in others. Since I can’t spell I will consider it a good trade off.
The screenshot isn’t of spotlite but of search using the finder!!! hehe Don’t be too hard on them. This is what a newbie would go through when checking out the Mac OS. But from what I’ve been reading their not new to the platform. So why the amateurish review.
Does a Mac Mini really require a Gig of RAM to use it? Why would anybody need that much on a machine which clearly isn’t a workstation?
Dude 1: Wow, awesome! Tiger. This is a Mac, right?
Dude 2: Sure is. I see the logo. Whatcha think, Dude 3?
Dude 3: Man, I just loaded this thing. I really don’t see anything new here. Bummer!
Dude 4: Dude, that’s a Playstation you’ve got there.
Dude 3: Oh, sorry.
Dude 1: So there you have it! Our conversation on Tiger. Come back in 2006 for an equally inane review of Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard.
Dude 2: But stay tuned. After the break, we’ll be discussing the resignation od Supreme Court Justice Sandra O’Connor, the first woman to serve on the nation’s highest court.
Dude 1: What’s a “woman?”
>> It includes only those features that are needed for image processing
>> and omits the OpenGL Shading Language features that are related to
>> 3D operations
>So its graphic capabilities are limited and aren’t leveraging what
>the recent graphic cards are offering. That’s what I wrote: Apple
>is overhyping ordinary technologies: creative professionals and
>hard gamers can find on cheap PCs much superior solutions
>from the same ATI and NVIDIA.
Michele, how can you perform a Gaussian blur in OpenGL? or adjust exposure? What about posterising and compositing?
CoreImage is not just a cut-down OpenGL. Apple provide OpenGL in full. It’s not just a cut-down OpenGL Slang either, because the shading language does not provide the algorithms, only the means to implement them.
CoreImage is a tool for improving development time for graphics apps. It doesn’t do anything magical, although it’s nice that it does it on the GPU when it can, or devolves to the CPU when it can’t.
And what does the line about Apple offering over-hyped tools that you can find on PCs mean? You can find them on the Mac too, and you’ve had them for ages. The new thing is that you don’t have to screw around with the set-up behind OpenGL or worry about the display. CoreImage doesn’t even have to be run on displayed images. Instead, you get to use a lot of the image-processing power in your apps for almost no effort.
So what exactly are the technologies that everyone’s had for ages? The OpenGL Slang is nice, but in and of itself gives you very little. You have to go out and write all the shaders yourself. What’s left?
“So what exactly are the technologies that everyone’s had for ages?”
CoreImage is very similar to functionality already present in DirectX.
“Mac OS X should be on “Leopard” by the time “Longhorn” is even released and bug tested.”
Which is a major reason Apple will never have any penetration into the corporate space. Corporations do not like upgrade treadmills.
” “A single version of the operating system. From G3 to G5, from
| iBook to Xserve, there is just one kernel and set of core system
| libraries for Tiger.”
There’s a unified kernel for all the current platforms and there’s
no peculiar optimization for the G5. That’s what I wrote.
”
What you should do, is to go, take a book, and read what 64 bits computing is. ok? I am tired of those ignorant trolly boys that don’t even know what the question is about but anyway they try hard to be right. So what is your point to refer to this quotation? Do you understand it? I dont think so, and i dont think that you know what 64 bits means either. So go here
http://developer.apple.com/macosx/64bit.html
and here
http://arstechnica.com/reviews/os/macosx-10.4.ars/4
Os x kernel (by the way do you know what is a kernel, i dont think so, but anyway) support G3, G4, G5, that’s right, but it does not mean that it does not support G5 optmizations. Osx has many Altivec code around many layers sine the G4 came out (specially in the graphic and media layer), but it still runs on G3.
Its not because windows 64 bits runs only on x86-64 that a 64 bits Osx should only run on G5. Windows kernel is junk, sorry for that????
I tell you again, go, take a book about computing science, read it a little bit, and come back to talk with me. Don’t just base your arguments on pc magazine for pc trolls like you. Learn real computing science.
We are running an ice sheet simulation model, well that’s a big baby, takes several weeks to complete, you know, it deals with matrix computation, numerical algebra, and those kind of nice things. This code runs in command line, and since Tiger came out, we built a 64 bits version of it. Our model can now adress (i assume that you know what does it mean, otherwise check the book, don’t forget the book, right?) more than 4 go of RAM. This code is multithreaded, and of course not all the thread needs to adress in 64 bits. Only the threads that deal with lage amount of data, specially multiplication, and factorization of large matrix is running in 64 bits. Our code can now adress around 8 Go of data when running on the Xserve. The reslults are send to a GUI based app written in Cocoa, using Mach message passing.
And now you, the whatever troll, come here, and says me that Tiger’s kernel is not 64 bits. Well again, go and check what 64 bits means…..you really s…..
“So its graphic capabilities are limited and aren’t leveraging what
the recent graphic cards are offering. That’s what I wrote: Apple
is overhyping ordinary technologies: creative professionals and
hard gamers can find on cheap PCs much superior solutions
from the same ATI and NVIDIA. ”
You don’t understand what CoreImage does my friend. Coreimage is an API that gives you all what you need to create apps that have to deal with heavy image or video processing. CoreImage leaverage OpenGl and the Shading Langage, for image and video processing. What you get is real time processing, floating point support, pixel based, image processing technology.
CoreImage uses the SIMD processing engines of todays graphics card or processors to give you real time and floating point image processing. CoreImage scales with you hardware, and take automatically the best of your newest graphical card. Buy the last generation of card, and CoreImage and performances that you get scale with it
Why are you talking about gaming? Coreimage is not about gaming, why do you talk about things that you dont understand? Its about Image and video processing and allows developers to build more quickly and efficiently those kind of apps that have to deal with image and video processing, do you understand english?, they get automatic built-in image units, they can build their own image units, and they get automatic support for hardware processing.
DirectX is not the same, Dirext is for 3D (actually Directx is just for games so far), windows do not provide you with an hardware accelerated, high precision image and video processing API. Otherwise give the name of it. But take car, before take the book, and check what is OpenGl, what is image processing, etc, and go here
http://developer.apple.com/macosx/coreimage.html
“Core Data and EOF (the Enterprise Objects Framework that ships with
| WebObjects) share a common heritage, but have different goals.”
That’s what I wrote. Core Data isn’t a totally new technology and recycles
many portions of the code Apple acquired from NeXT. ”
No read the doc until the end and try to understand it. Yes it uses many technologies already implemented with Next, but you see that as i told you coredata and EOF have different goals. You said in your previous message that it was the same. And moreover being based on some next technologies do not remove the big benefits that CoreData brings to developpers. And again CoreData is built around many Cocoa technologies that do not exist in Nextstep. Read the doc….
“The only widget which is drawing smoothed lines is the Word Clock.
All the other ones are using pre-rendered PNGs or TIFFs. ”
Ahh here we go, its already something different compared to what you said previously. We went from no quartz based widgets to the only Word Clock. Well go and use osx, the Weather, the Flight Tracker, the Thesaurus widgets, etc, are quartz based rendered. What is the pre-rendered PNGs or TIFFs, what does it mean? It no sense…. Go and chek the book….
“As in Macromedia Flex, Flash “applets” are nowadays used to provide
compelling rich user interfaces and you can author them in advanced IDEs
by leveraging Java application servers. This is not what Apple is offering
exactly with the Xcode support for widget developers.”
Did you use Xcode? I dont think so….. Widgets can provide already rich user interface by using Cocoa and Quartz, as dashboard can use them for building widgets. I cant see what this Laszlo’s Dashboard has particluar. The rendering layer is ugly, the interface seems to be quite basic, what is the rich user interface you are tlaking about.
Ok, so my best advice for you, is: just try to read some documentations, stop to base your arguments on conversations that you had with other trolls like you, read the book, switch on your brain…….
Have a nice day, say hello to the trolls world out there….
I didn’t write that Tiger kernel doesn’t support a 64-bit address space, nor that
you can’t launch non-GUI 64-bit processes. I wrote that Apple hasn’t fully
optimized it for G5: why should they have done it, since they have been
planning for long to drop PowerPCs and switching to Intel CPUs?
> go, take a book about computing science
I prefer reading regularly Apple’s mailing lists, thank you. It’s always fun
reading the posts by Apple’s engeneerers who have to clarify to Mac fanatic
beginner developers the overhyped Apple’s marketing fluff.
I prefer reading regularly Apple’s mailing lists, thank you. It’s always fun
reading the posts by Apple’s engeneerers who have to clarify to Mac fanatic
beginner developers the overhyped Apple’s marketing fluff.
For example?
Hakime, you need to remember Gary’s First Law of Forum Commentary:
“Actual experience in the field, managing a problem day-to-day or creating valid solutions that work and are implemented completely is far less important than what some guy tells you on a thread somewhere on the Internet, or what you read somewhere in a magazine quoting an unnamed source.”
People prefer not to listen to actual developers when it comes to coding. They’d rather regurgitate stuff they heard somewhere, don’t really understand too well and backs their biases.
“DirectX is not the same, Dirext is for 3D (actually Directx is just for games so far), windows do not provide you with an hardware accelerated, high precision image and video processing API. Otherwise give the name of it. But ”
DirectX isn’t “for 3D”. Direct3D – a part of DirectX – is.
It’s used for more than just *games*, kid. There are high-performance image processing libraries available for Windows from Intel (IPL) and Microsoft’s DirectShow (part of DirectX).
“take car, before take the book, and check what is OpenGl, what is image processing, etc, and go here ”
I’ve been writing software using the OpenGL API for 10 years…. I think I have a pretty good handle on what it is. Somehow, I don’t think you’re an actual developer.
“Ok, so my best advice for you, is: just try to read some documentations, stop to base your arguments on conversations that you had with other trolls like you, read the book, switch on your brain……. ”
Take your own advice. Geez.
“People prefer not to listen to actual developers when it comes to coding. They’d rather regurgitate stuff they heard somewhere, don’t really understand too well and backs their biases.”
Gary, what makes you think Hakime here is an “actual developer”? Wishful thinking? He backs YOUR biases?
Hey, relax. No one is claiming that there aren’t any image processing libraries on Windows. The nice thing about Core Image is that it is part of the OS. IPP isn’t part of the OS and is a separate download. It also isn’t free for commercial use. I’ve never used DirectShow so I can’t comment on it.
Core Image doesn’t do anything you can’t already do. What it provides is a simple to use image processing API that is well optimized and offloads the image processing work to the GPU. Something the Intel IPP doesn’t do. With Core Image, image processing becomes more accessible to programmers who don’t specialize in computer vision.
“Hey, relax. No one is claiming that there aren’t any image processing libraries on Windows. The nice thing about Core Image is that it is part of the OS. IPP isn’t part of the OS and is a separate download. It also isn’t free for commercial use. I’ve never used DirectShow so I can’t comment on it. ”
Actually, I believe Hakime made the claim that there isn’t anything similar to CoreImage on Windows. That is false.
“With Core Image, image processing becomes more accessible to programmers who don’t specialize in computer vision”
Sounds like DirectShow. This isn’t anything particularly new or special.
“With Core Image, image processing becomes more accessible to programmers who don’t specialize in computer vision”
Sounds like DirectShow. This isn’t anything particularly new or special.
Like I said, I have not used DirectShow, but here is what the http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/di… on MSDN says:
Is there a DirectShow Hardware Compatibility List (HCL)?
No. DirectShow uses Microsoft® DirectDraw® and Microsoft® DirectSound® hardware capabilities if they are available. When no special hardware is available, DirectShow uses GDI to draw video and the waveOut* multimedia APIs to play audio.
It uses DirectDraw and DirectSound, no mention of Direct3D. Core Image makes use of the shader facilities of the newish video cards to do a lot of the operations, hence it is only supported on the nVidia FX series and ATI Radeons above the RV250 core (9500 and up) and basically any other card that comes with a programmable GPU. Unless DirectShow actually does that, I think Apple is right (for once?) in claiming that there is nothing similar to Core Image on Windows.
“It uses DirectDraw and DirectSound, no mention of Direct3D. ”
DirectDraw and Direct3D have been integrated since DX8. That includes shader support with HLSL.
“Unless DirectShow actually does that, I think Apple is right (for once?) in claiming that there is nothing similar to Core Image on Windows.”
Is Apple claiming that there’s nothing like CoreImage on Windows, or is it just Apple fans?
When they were integrated, DirectGraphics was created. Since DirectShow clearly leaves out Direct3D, and makes no mention of HLSL or hardware that requires HLSL, does it really support HLSL? Do you have any proof that it does since I can’t find any proof of it in the MSDN documentation?
There are fans of any OS that can’t be reasoned with. Is it really so bad that Apple may have actually come out with a library that has no equivalent on any other OS? Is that so impossible?
“Since DirectShow clearly leaves out Direct3D, and makes no mention of HLSL or hardware that requires HLSL, does it really support HLSL?”
VMR-9 does.
“Do you have any proof that it does since I can’t find any proof of it in the MSDN documentation?”
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/di…
“Is it really so bad that Apple may have actually come out with a library that has no equivalent on any other OS? Is that so impossible?”
It’s not impossible. It just didn’t happen in this case.
I’m not convinced that Core Image and DirectShow do the same things. DirectShow looks more like a general multimedia codec library (dealing with sound, video,etc), with some filters. Here’s a list of supported http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/di… Core” rel=”nofollow”>http://developer.apple.com/macosx/coreimage.html>Core Image filters.
“I’m not convinced that Core Image and DirectShow do the same things.”
It’s more like the DirectX framework encompasses CoreImage and CoreVideo capabilities in one API suite. The reason you don’t see this marketed to users is that said users shouldn’t really have to care about APIs.