It’s been a few years since we ran such a poll. Let’s see what most people prefer these days.Note: The poll is now closed, thank you for voting.
Important note as a reply to some comments: Who ever claims that osnews is pro-gnome is a flat out idiot (no one at osnews.com uses gnome in the first place, not even myself anymore). The reason we closed the poll 7 hours after it opened was because we had to go to sleep and could not monitor it anymore, because this outsourced poll engine CAN be tampered with by script kiddies (we were hit 5 times in the past by script kiddies, so we HAVE to be EXTRA careful). The poll had to be open for as long we were around and I personally stayed awake for more than I should have just to give more time to this poll (I slept at 1 AM local time, long after my husband went to bed). But instead getting a “thank you”, I get crap from all these people over here and elsewhere that draw their OWN lame conclusions as to why we do the things we do and how, without even asking first. They think they know better. And besides, after 3,000 votes it’s a good indication of what people like and what not like. Serious scientific polls usually don’t even use more than 1000 subjects, we are happy having more than 3,000 in 7 hours for this fun poll. Other news web sites don’t even get more than 500 votes in weeks!
Bullshit. You can make KDE look just like OS X if you know how. You could also make it look just like Gnome if you’re that big of a Gnome freak. It has more versatility in that regard then Gnome whichs pretty much only looks one way.
Actually, you can. Try Ctrl+L.
At the Save dialog? Cool.
While it was certainly warranted, there’s nonetheless something vaguely disturbing about the management of a high-profile, polished, professional website referring to anyone as a “flat-out idiot”…
oh, and once again – Can I burn a cd from the KDE filemanager? Right click and resize icons? need i go on… wish I could-gnome needs to ratchet up the innovation again, which I think it will again soon…
actually you can. There is a kioslave for burning. Never used it tho.
As for resizing the icons you can increase the size of all icons. I did noticed that in gnome you could change the size of 1 icon but.. so what?
about the fact i couldn’t vote.
aside from that, nice flamewar!
lets add a bit.
compare gnome and KDE to windows – KDE is windows on stereoids. much more features, mostly easier to use, more consistent and generally more responsive (altough, in a other way).
then gnome – well. its different from windows. a bit cleaner. maybe faster. well, that’s about it, i guess.
ok, gets the job done. but xfce does so, too. and icewm. i don’t see much of an advantage using gnome over xfce. i DO see an advantage of using KDE over xfce – it is FAR more powerfull, integrated, consistent AND easy to use.
>high-profile, polished, professional website
High profile yes. Polished maybe. Professional? Not where I am standing. OSNews is just a HOBBY. It barely pays for its hosting AFAIK, and I personally don’t see a dime of it anyway. It’s a good way to spend my time IMHO. I am passionate about it, but that’s where it stops. It ain’t and will never be CNN.
The people who make out their conclusions about us without making some research first or emailing us –and they do that often, enough to piss us off or make us laugh at their face–, *are* flat out idiots. They see the gnomefiles.org sidebar (which I explained earlier why it’s there) and sudenly we are “pro gnome” even if none of us use it. Bah. I personally load Gnome just once per month these days (I use WindowMaker when on Unix, I mostly use XP or OSX), enough to take a screenshot from it for the european magazine I am writing for, when needed.
whatever you say eugenia, next time put it up 5 minutes only.
don’t do pools if you can even let it one day; because NOT EVERYONE has a chance to vote, even a single, when you’re only up the very right hours other people sleep.
It’s just plain stupid.
Yeah, you can moderate this comment but it’s still truth.
If pools should be stopped then, yes, they should, because they’re as miss representative as if it were people cheating the results. (and no, i don’t care if the results is gnome winning or kde or anything, i really talk in general for future pools)
You should do a new pole on how many gnome users use ubuntu.
you say
“Gnome whichs pretty much only looks one way”
and with your own words prove you havent used gnome very much!
🙂
too funny
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and eugenia some of us do appreciate you…. even if we are pain in the %^&@ss
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as i said earlier if you increase the size of your icons that you use regularly and shrink the others you will have to do a lot less glancing… of course as I also said kde vs gnome is mostly a moot point especially with each new release of both….
“now that I admitted that I dont know KDE as well as KDE users can the KDE users step forward to state that they dont know Gnome as well as gnome users….”
Gnome users would settle for a draw but KDE users would NEVER settle for a tie because they KNOW KDE is the greatest
..that I missed an opportunity to vote.
Point#1: All you gnome lovers throw the word “usability” at others just because its the latest buzzword. Nothing more. Just like Political Correctness (which stinks higher than h311).
Point#2: GOME is more a copy of MacOS than KDE is of Windows. And Guess what? KDE can be made to look entirely unlike windows. Now, try making GNOME unlike MAcOS; its not possible. So stop whinging about KDE being a clone of Windows.
Point#3: With an outdated library like GTK(add as many plusses as you want), its only possible to do so much. That’s why all of you are pointing out the minimalism as the next big thing. When was minimalism the cornerstone of open-source? Why not let the end-user decide what options he/she wants in there?
Point#4: GNOME’s attitude to end-users so much like Microsoft’s that I am seriously beginning to think GNOME is a MS-sponspored project (well maybe not sponsored, but definitely supported). Not to mention the registry look-and-feel alike gconf!
please, get a life.
a request to everyone out there: if you ever see me behave in such a stupid manner, please shoot me in the neck
Long live fvwm.
Who cares about what he says anymore?
The guy has loss all credibility.
Point#1: usability and productivity is the main goal of any environment IMO
Point#2: It is similar to MacOS and that is a good thing
Yes, Gnome can look like different in so many ways, ever tried the smokey blue theme, what about geramik oh for lords sake what about bluecurve? uh excuse me your ignorance is hanging out please put it back as it is so offensive:)
Point#3: outdated? aint even going to bother with this i mean Java looks like the old tcl/tk… (sorry java guys)
Point#4: GNOME’s has some “fractoring” problems that I think they will finally agree to disagree and realize the point is gnome and users and they will get back to innovating
I missed my chance to vote, I agree with some posters though that this site shows a definite preference to Gnome most of the time so the results will of course swing in its favour.
For what its worth I would have voted for KDE, I have tried a number of Window managers and desktop environments including KDE and Gnome and I just happen to like KDE the most.
Hmm what kind of poll was this ? Lasted only for some hours and only then when it’s day in USA and night in Europe ? Of course this site has a preference towards GNOME and bad journalism and misleading articles always makes this look through tough. No chance for me to vote and of course the vote got closed when GNOME was in front.
A good polls should at least be given a few days so other readers have the ability to poll too. I think a realistic poll would at least last a few days.
Though even if GNOME is the prefered desktop, it’s a difference whether it’s also a good desktop and I doubt so. Looking at these small movies:
Linux: http://rapidshare.de/files/2066703/gnome-the-movie.avi.gz.html
Windows:
http://rapidshare.de/files/2067142/gnome.zip.html
Make me skeptical, apart from the crashes which seem to be a problem for itself, it otoh seem to have other architectual and usability issues when looking closer at the movies (Dialogs missized, Different Toolbars, Different Statusbars, Wrong padding of Buttons). It seems that enforcing the HIG on all GNOME applications so far have been a huge flop. A bunch of stuff has been fixed towards the HIG but still someone fixes the stuff and then someone else seem to break things again afterwards, which can be really frustrating. The apps don’t follow a general styling guide and volunteer sparetime experts who work on the usability stuff seem to have a wrong understanding of usability and absolutely no understanding of aesthetics of applications.
Apart from all the bottom core issues there are still a lot of applications missing to get serious business work done. There is basicly nothing for GNOME except mediaplayers, mono experimental applications or real things for the business and science area. Only home user entertainment is covered here but for the business and science there is nothing.
Ok I know everything is explainable why GNOME has the issues and everyone would mention howto fix them etc. but then look over at KDE the same amount of developers and yet they seem to be able to handle the stuff better.
.
3 375 respondents to a poll found that 39% referred Gnome. This does not make Gnome the most popular manager nor should anyone have interpreted it as doing so.
I just did every thing that guy does in the clip and except for the menu icons with/without text bug in easytag I can’t reproduce those problem.
explorer. Works pretty good. Nice copy-paste, most apps look the same, good drag and drop support.
Linux is too difficult for me!
> I just did every thing that guy does in the clip and
> except for the menu icons with/without text bug in
> easytag I can’t reproduce those problem.
No, you did not. You are an ignorant that’s all, you are one of those people who defend GNOME for the sake of it because you as well as the developers can’t stand criticism and so try to shut other peoples comments down by responding like you did.
The Toolbar issues are there, regardless if CVS or Stable GNOME, regardless if UBUNTU or Coca Cola Distribution. It’s nothing that would have changed over night because it’s a code issues from the applications itself. If an application has chosen to use BonoboUI over GTK+ for it’s Window then it’s clear that it behaves differently. Nothing you could fix with a few lines of code. This mostly requires huge code refactoring.
The Nautilus issue is there, regardless if you use CVS or Ubuntu or whatever, go to http://ftp.gnu.org and try downloading the entire “gnu” directory. You can wait nearly 10 mins before it starts doing anything. And Nautilus in this regard was far worse in the past due to heavily broken FTP gnome-vfs library.
Sure the GNOME applications crashing was a bit extreme but if you would understand the issue rather than looking at the symptom then you need to understand that this happens because those who work on the GNOME components inside CVS doesn’t do proper checking of what they commit and it’s rarely possible to compile stuff from CVS in a flow without manual tweaking there and here because the one developer uses Red Hat, the other Ubuntu, the other Debian, another Novell Desktop and yet again others SUN’s Java Desktop or whatever. Then there are also cross versions of GNOME that people keep using while hacking on this one only CVS HEAD module. I know people who run GNOME 2.6 and work on a exactly one CVS module to improve it. Ignoring the fact that with 2.10 a lot of stuff might have been changed again and so the parts they changed in HEAD may work with 2.6 but not with 2.10 again.
Do you understand at least in a minimal way what I am trying to explain here ? I do hope so.
The problems with the different Windowing libraries as well as Toolbar issues could have easily been avoided if there was some hacked together document for starters, coders or porters so they understand what they should use and what not. But since now not even die hard core developers know what actually to use. They keep using what’s there to solve the problem of the application but then causing new problems because they application works quite disharmonic with the rest of the Desktop Environment.
The problem with the Printing Interface is no banal thing either. If I am not able to print a current page that I am viewing then I am not able to use the application correctly to get work done. This is no mistake of the libgnomeprint and libgnomeprintui library, this is a mistake of the application developer for not having any guidelines howto do it properly.
The HIG which everyone hypes high, I bet even half of you in best have spent time reading it. The version 2.0 of it still has plenty of contradicting parts in it such as the Toolbar aspect where in the top paragraph it’s highly recommended that the application SHOULD behave like other applications and then alter on it’s written that an application should offer the ability to change Toolbar items (which is the contradiction since it doesn’t make the application behave similar like others, since you can’t change the Toolbars of the majority of currently existing applications. It should be asked whether it wouldn’t make more sense to bring the Toolbareditor inside GTK+ as part of the API so it gets inherit by all applications at the same time).
You people refer to ‘integrate’ with GNOME all the time but you seem to have a doubtable understanding of integration. An integration means to have something work seamlessly together with the other parts of the desktop. If you integrate a greek or turk in a different new country then you want him to behave, act, do, eat, drink and whatever like the people doing in this country. Integration doesn’t mean that you integrate some bulky stuff in exactly one application or hack it in so it only works with that one and not the rest. So if you hack up a Toolbar editor which only works in Epiphany or Evince then it’s no integration. It’s a hack.
Then again, if people would give the stuff they work on some more time. Not everyone is working on CVS as we speak. They usually work offline on a patch and commit it to CVS once it gets some shape and was tested to work. That’s how KDE people seem to be doing it. They work on something, it works, it gets commited. As soon as someone shouts out “hey, you broke it” it gets fixed as they speak. On GNOME we usually have people who asume stuff. You read in changelogs comments like “This hopefully fixes some memoryleaks” …. Hopefully ? Either you know it or you don’t but don’t make the CVS become an experiment …. GNOME as long as I spent my time with it always had a policy which said “GNOME from CVS should be kept compilable and problems should if possible get fixed”. But this ain’t the case anymore, people keep using distros to hack on GNOME, others use JHBuild or another compiling solution and forget to test it exessively. Recently someone has closed one of my bugs because an API reference couldn’t be build (for several GNOME modules) after replying to him and telling him to –enable-gtk-doc he realized that I was right and reopened the bugs again. Nobody seem to test GNOME or give it the right love anymore. GNOME is also not being developed on or rarely getting any contributions, some packages in CVS are only version bumps, others get some minor love but all in all it’s quite a poor shape (How do I know this ? I checkout/update CVS for the past 6 years on a daily basis now). Scrollkeeper from CVS still broken, documents missing, po files missing, autogen.sh files broken (if you use new gnu-core-utils). Stuff reported by me months ago (see bugtracker) and still no one gives a flying damn for it.
Ok you can say use a distro but this is not the point, specially not if you want to work ON improving GNOME rather than working with GNOME (if this was ever possible). Then you need at least convince a lot of people to keep their junk right and this is impossible at the moment. KDE is doing far better in this regard if something fails then it’s usually fixed within 24hrs. I don’t want to sound like a KDE fanboy here but I find it quite ignorant for GNOME followers to do like there aren’t any issues with GNOME and as if everything is right and shiny….
– It’s not!
fluxbox
with gkrellm and bbpager
You again! I thought we discussed the toolbar issue and you conceded you were just being anal. Show me one major desktop environment with consistent toolbars, and it will be my pleasure to discredit it. Go ahead! Oh and by the way, are you really oGALAXYo, the GNOME hater?
which highlights my point about one tool for one job and doing it well….
open a ftp client and go to work if you want to http://ftp….
will have to try that out though… are those links working because I cannot find anything
“Preparing copy” seems to me a sufficient feedback
and you’re one of the worst trolls and FUD-spreaders I ever read here. Two comments of hundreds of words and you never pointed out that actually nautilus ftp browsing works, even if immature, until I made some screenshots. you insinued that nautilus is broken and that gnome is broken, and you used false examples: easytag is not a gnome application, is a gtk2 application who doesn’t depend on gnome libraries. does valknut (qt application) use kde themes? no
and please, it is useless that you try to make all those meaningless “arguments” on gnome CVS, you’re just a troll, a liar and you don’t deserve attention.
and btw, I’m no gnome fanboy, most of the time I use xfce 4.2
PS. if you can call me ignorant, and tell me that I’m a liar, I see no problem if I call you an asshole, because this is what you are.
…does valknut (qt application) use kde themes? no
I hate to be nitpicky but despite Valknut (my favorite P2P client at the moment) not being a KDE application it CAN use the KDE theme. It just don’t do it by default but like most QT applications, you can make it use any one of the themes available to KDE.
Right know I’m using High Performance Liquid + Baghira window decorators and changed Valknut theme and fonts to match this theme. Looks lovely… 😛
Cheers
Mr. G<name protected> from italy seem to have a funny day today and it kicks ass how he insults people.
can you describe for me what you think is broke in gnome? i am personally confused…
as far as toolbars in apps, i expect different toolbars in different apps… now a consistant appearance is nice to some people but I prefer different so it is not so monotonous and boring…..
you expect the same toolbar that is in gedit as in Dia ????
as i said please enlighten me cause i am confused….
stop tell me liar: all the “customization” is clearlooks theme (I use it in xfce too), flat-blue icons (installed by default by gnome), 14 buttons on the panel and a wallpaper. 10 minutes of work. want to see my xfce 4.2 desktop? every entry in the menus (menus detached to make you see them all) is hand-made.
http://img79.echo.cx/img79/8467/schermata4wt.png
abiword and gnumeric ARE NOT gnome apps (gnome is optional) and evince is alpha software… don’t take alpha software, not yet released in gnome, as an example of gnome desktop
I think some people need to go outside.
Giacomo listen, you clearly understand what I mean, so stop your ramblings. And stop your sophistry.
Another religous war about bloody SOFTWARE! not to mention they’re both pieces of linux software, mind you, but that doesn’t seem to matter to these zealots. By the way, zealot is a bad word in this case.
> as far as toolbars in apps, i expect different toolbars
> in different apps… now a consistant appearance is nice
> to some people but I prefer different so it is not so
> monotonous and boring…..
I am not refering to the Elements on the Toolbar (like New, Open, Save, Zoom, Print, Left, Right, Up). I am refering to the Toolbar itself as in code.
GNOME as Desktop Environment and applications using the GNOME Desktop Environment as base for their beings should clearly follow some sort of styling guide. The attempt of all the usability studies as well as the HIG and other researches is, to offer people a coherent Desktop experience that is (for example) if a user configures:
‘I want to see Icons only on my Toolbar’
That he gets Icons only in his toolbar, and when he believes he wants to have Text Besides Icons that he gets Text Besides his Icons. GNOME is still stuck for unknown reason in this blatant deprecation process that in my opinion is a crawling process. There are different libraries for ancient reasons still inside GNOME that gives developers the ability to create a Window, Toolbar, Menu and other stuff which have issues to work correctly with the other ways of creating a Window, Toolbar or Menu.
So if you have say 3-4 different libaries offering you 3-4 different ways of creating a Window, Toolbar and Menu and all of them look, behave and work differently then you have a problem. As you can see in the video it clearly shows that GNUMERIC as well as ABIWORD (both compiled with GNOME support in mind) seem to not follow the Toolbar change as they should.
This is annoying and not correct behavior. GNOME is going away from using the other libaries because of them being deprecated and slowly starts imigrating to GTK+ only for doing Window, Toolbars and Menus which of course is the right approach and hopefully will give all applications one day a consistent Window, one Window model, one Toolbar Model and one Menu model. Though unfortunately nobody of the maintainers who control and maintain a certain package inside GNOME cvs seem to be doing anything to achive the goal. While the GNOME 2.x series still keep API compatibility there is still no reason to start going this approach to convert all the applications over.
I mean, GNOME could be a very nice and really polished Desktop Environment but the work seem to be totally stagnating. For me the process of getting rid of deprecated code and broken stuff is not going on fast enough. You need to wait weeks, months until some small bits seem to change there and here and some maintainers don’t care much enough and don’t do anything at all, which would require the question whether it would be better for him to hand his package over to someone else who has more skills and more willing to actually do the necessary changes.
Waiting for GNOME 3 until something really changes is imo too late. Too late why ? Because people still keep using the deprecated stuff to write new applications and we end up in exactly this stuff. A lot of people hacking their small applications and everything looks, acts and behaves different.
If it comes on defending GNOME then everyone starts naming applications such as Abiword, Gnumeric, and so on.. But as soon as it starts to come towards criticism why the application Abiword misbehaves in GNOME then the same people crawl out of their dark chambers and say ‘Abiword is no GNOME application’… Somehow people need to get hit with a cluestick sometimes….