If you though the subject of DRM and Trusted Comouting had gone away, think again. Intel is adding DRM capabilities to its new Pentium D chipsets, but as with AMD, they’re not that keen on talking about it. Aside from DRM, there’s also this gem: Additionally, AMT also features what Intel calls “IDE redirection”…allow administrators to remotely enable, disable or format or configure individual drives and reload operating systems and software from remote locations, again independent of operating systems.
…that someone is goign to be able to hack into my PC, and format my drives…install their disto, and then i boot my pc next, it comes up with a clown laughing at me and flashes my bios to 0000000000…..
cant wait for this feature
screw this, we don’t need this “feature!”
You can do almost anything remotely if you know the password? Great move guys, who needs them pesky trojans anyway. This may be the delight of many hackers, I would think.
I’ve had it with Intel and call for a boycott of this company. Nobody needs DRM but you can be sure we will see all forms of abuses and evil crap that uses DRM.
Good bye Intel. As the purchaser for the IT department at our university I will make sure that we will not buy any Intel based machines anymore. AMD offers a better performance/price ratio anyways and has become the definite leader in the 64 bit area. In addition to that we can also expect CELL based systems very soon. From my experience price-comparable AMD machines are much faster than Intel but I haven’t had the guts to change our buying policy. Now I am doing exactly this and Intel will miss out on selling in average 300-450 CPUs per year for the desktops and servers at our university.
I am joining the boycott. Intel is pushing DRM on us through the backdoor and as a result DRM can and will be used for some really evil stuff. Our company is a larger systems reseller and we’ve been selling over 600,000 Intel PCs a year. AMD made us an excellent offer last year but I’ve been too reluctant to look into it. I will move our entire product line to AMD based systems which will take at least a month but save us some money and make us more competitive.
It seems that many of you missed the “as with AMD” part. Or “forget” that AMD is one of the promoters (see https://www.trustedcomputinggroup.org).
I can understand them supporting DRM, afterall you’re dealing with billions of dollars of investment, and you have to have a little future proofing in there so you won’t lose an entire product line if the marketplace calls for it.
But this AMT idea sounds like a very bad idea. While I can see from their propoganda it could be useful, it could also obviously be extremely destructive – and generally speaking I will not support a move such as this. I’d like to get more info on it though.
Is this another Y2k Bug scare thingy, or is their really reason to be concerned?
I feel a little uneasy about this myself. It seems nothing more than another way to try and control the masses.
Next thing you know, your hardware requires Windows 200x to function..
…the entire industry wants this. It’s only a matter of time before AMD, IBM etc. introduce it.
Blame the “warez d00dz”. IP piracy has reached a level where it hurts all IP-based industries (i.e. movie, music, software etc.) so massively that they use all their lobbying power to stop it.
at least AMD is not actually using DRM and for IBM’s Power and CELL CPUs there is no immediate danger of mandatory OS support for DRM on these platforms.
This is why I have switched to the Mac, however my fiance is sticking with Windows. When she hears about this, she will definatelly move to AMD and possibly switch to Mac. If AMD adds DRM and AMT they may both give a very good reason for people to switch (and yes Macs can run linux, I’ve got linux and OS X on all of my machines).
Not entirely accurate. The DRM part isn’t the scariest (we don’t know for sure that it’s ‘DRM’, it may just as well be an on-die TPM, akin to IBM’s), which AMD is also offering (TPM, NOT DRM! GET IT RIGHT!!!!) The scariest part is being able to remotely manage any system running any OS. AMD, as far as I can tell, does not offer this ‘feature’, which can too easily be misused.
But, for me, I’m buying only non-x86 hardware, so the point becomes moot.
DRM is not just another Y2k scare but a grave danger to freedom on your PC as well as online. It must not be underestimated. My next machine will be an AMD: more performance at a lower price.
I also join the boycott. I love AMD and Linux for Macs has become an awesome choice so I’ll probably buy the new PowerBook and run Linux on it. That’ll be one damn fast machine.
no Intel for me anymore. that’s it. my next desktop will be either an Opteron or a Mac.
I was really close to buying or thinking of buying one of those new Athlon X2 cpu’s because of the performence gain, and the price isn’t that bad. Then I read up on a few next year chips Intel is working on with the former techs from the Alpha days, and they sound very promissing. Now insted of making a new box this June, I think i’ll wait and see what happens this time next year. About this AMT, it does sound pretty shitty, but then again, maybe you can turn it off? TPM isn’t the same as DRM, and if the option is there not to use these new features, as with any ‘feature’ you should have that option. I can see how AMT would help admins run their systems better, but for home use, we don’t need this if we don’t want it.
same here. Intel’s AMT technology is even more evil than pure DRM. i always wanted to go AMD and now is the time.
Maybe all people that read these comments know what DRM is and can decide if it’s good or not for them. What about athe average Joe who doesn’t have a clue about what Intel is, who only wants a “pentium” computer? He will never find out about DRM as he knows nothing about all the crap big compay do behind consumer’s back. best case scenario it will find out about this because his music won’t work anymore or his documents won’t be readable even on his own computer (and don’t say this can never happen).
So, DRM what???
I guess most (anti DRM) people will buy in the near future a nice Athlon64 cpu without DRM and wait until all this nonsense fades away. This might stil happen as it did with Intel serial numbers for cpu’s some years ago.
But the most scarry thought is that this is here to stay, as a nice adition to any secret service tools in their fight aginst “terrorists”. It will be something we will need (all of us) to support in order to have a better world
).
Isn’t that the world you wanna live in? Too bad… It’s not your decision to make!
Good. I hope that Intel goes through with this idiocy. Then people will see what happens when they give up the freedom over their computers to anyone with the remote pass code – corporate overlord or otherwise.
yes, it is important that more people know what exactly DRM is and how far the consequences go. the more i read about it the more it freaked me out. my next computer will have an AMD Athlon or Opteron processor.
I do not want my pc to have is CPU with DRM, if the DRM mean digital rights manager. I want freedom to run what I want even if I didn’t pay for it in the first place. The problem with this ideal is that all software/hardware becomes abandon by the company that created then after 2 maybe 3 year after they release them. The computer is giving away after 10 years and you would have people that can’t buy a new computer trying to get these computer going to find out that only orginal bought software would work on it. I not buying this D CPU even it they paying me to take it.
i’ll join the boycott. you can totally forsee how both DRM and AMT “features” will be used to “lock us in” in our own PCs. all computers in our family are AMDs except my daughter’s iBook.
Not entirely accurate. The DRM part isn’t the scariest (we don’t know for sure that it’s ‘DRM’, it may just as well be an on-die TPM, akin to IBM’s), which AMD is also offering (TPM, NOT DRM! GET IT RIGHT!!!!) The scariest part is being able to remotely manage any system running any OS. AMD, as far as I can tell, does not offer this ‘feature’, which can too easily be misused.
TPM, DRM, whatever. If you believe AMD is going to miss the boat, think again. Search “DRM” on AMD’s website and you will see they are involved in this mess.
AMT doesn’t sound safe but, as pretty much everything, you will be able to turn it off, just like we could with P3’s PID.
I buy AMD stuff exclusively since 2000 but I am aware that they are a company with shareholders.
I am selling my Intel shares. They are overpriced and haven’t been doing that well anyways plus I can have peace of mind and don’t need to blame myself for supporting one of the most unethical companies.
And just when there were rumors circulating of Apple using Intel chips…
Snip
1) However, Tucker ducked questions regarding technical details of how embedded DRM would work saying it was not in the interests of his company to spell out how the technology in the interests of security.
2) Conversely, Intel is heavily promoting what it calls “active management technology” (AMT) in the new chips as a major plus for system administrators and enterprise IT. Understood to be a sub-operating system residing in the chip’s firmware, AMT will allow administrators to both monitor or control individual machines independent of an operating system.
3) Additionally, AMT also features what Intel calls “IDE redirection” which will allow administrators to remotely enable, disable or format or configure individual drives and reload operating systems and software from remote locations, again independent of operating systems. Both AMT and IDE control are enabled by a new network interface controller.
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1) Security though obscurity has never worked. This will back fire and who will pay the price. The consumer will pay the price.
2) “MT will allow administrators to both monitor or control individual machines independent of an operating system.”
Let me get this straight, you want to be able to control my machine remotely. So, what safe guards are present. If there is a flaw or an exploit, are you going to issue a patch? Do, I need new bios?
3) “Additionally, AMT also features what Intel calls “IDE redirection” which will allow administrators to remotely enable, disable or format or configure individual drives and reload operating systems and software from remote locations, again independent of operating systems.”
Wow, you are giving some very powerful tools to Virus writers and the black hatters in the world. So, what tools am I going to have in my arsenel to protect my machine. O’Wait none.
So, if I buy or build a new machine, your basically saying that I don’t own it or control it. The security implications ramifications are huge.
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PS: The posts with respect to the Cell have 1 flaw. The cells have a unique ID for each processor.
Besides the DRM crap the Pentium D will be overpriced and according to the reviews they don’t offer much performance either so AMD are clearly the CPUs of choice.
e.g. from hexus.net Pentium D review:
“The Pentium D 820 is in a different league, both in terms of architecture and pricing. When viewed with respect to single-threaded applications, and gaming is counted amongst them, it’s labouriously slow and ineffective against both its Pentium 4 single-core counterparts and, more importantly, AMD’s Athlon 64 line of CPUs. Gamers and enthusiasts who value framerates above all else will need to look elsewhere for their thrills and spills. 2.8GHz of Prescott-based power isn’t really enough to drive the subsystem-hungry likes of Far Cry and Half-Life 2 along at decent rates.”
That’s it. Good I sold my Intel stocks…
From Tom’s Hardware Guide: http://www.tomshardware.com/cpu/20050509/index.html
“The performance drawback on Intel’s side is something we would absolutely be willing to live with for the sake of the multi-tasking experience, and we don’t really expect the Pentium D to have any trouble being accepted by the market. However, there is something that we can’t really tolerate: the Pentium D system manages to burn over 200 watts as soon as it’s turned on, even when it isn’t doing anything. It even exceeds 310 W when working and 350+ W with the graphics card employed! AMD proves that this is not necessary at all: a range of 125 to 190 Watts is much more acceptable (235 counting the graphics card). And that is without Cool & Quiet even enabled.
Here’s the bottom line. If we had to recommend a single core processor, the choice would depend greatly on the type of applications in use. But in the dual core arena, though, there is not much that speaks for Intel: go with the Athlon 64 X2.”
Use free software, you’ll be able to retain your freedom to use your computer in a time of grave danger to basic civil liberties.
IP piracy has reached a level where it hurts all IP-based industries (i.e. movie, music, software etc.) so massively that they use all their lobbying power to stop it.
Total bull. The record industry set a new record on sales of CD’s last year. Same with every other IP-based industry. There is NO proof that P2P has any negative effect on these companies, and several studies showing positive effects.
The info on the official RIAA web site concerning sales and distribution of CDs DIRECTLY CONTRADICTS their assertions that P2P has damaged their industry.
Look at current events – Starwars 3 was out on P2P before it hit the theaters, but SW3 did an all time record of $50M on the 1st day, and a record $160M for the weekend, and it hasn’t slowed down since. P2P made NO negative impact on SW3 that ANYONE can demonstrate.
Besides, as the courts told the stupid RIAA/MPAA lawyers, it’s NOT piracy or even theft, it’s copyright infringement. The RIAA/MPAA co-opted the term piracy to give the offense more negative connotations in the hopes that the less intelligent would be more swayed to their side of the issue. Copyright infringment ISN’T THEFT, and certainly ISN’T PIRACY. You demean the true definition of these horrific crimes to state otherwise.
Right now they’re trying to sneak this DRM crap through the backdoor unnoticed, we can probably whip up some support to delay their plans, but in the end they will impose DRM because the free speech on the internet is a threat to them, and they desperately need to control the internet because “not all truth are good for people to know”. That and the national ID card… They’ll probably have a few more towers blown down so that the lemmings will accept all that crap.
I think it’s still unclear what Intel wants to do with CPU-s with this technology. Maybe some customer really needs it (there are interesting stories at https://www.trustedcomputinggroup.org – mentioned before), others don’t.
There were the cpu unique id thing many years ago. That wasn’t a succesfull story.
—
BREAKING NEWS:
Intel Pentium D 2,4Ghz-HT,IRK Released!
* HT – Hyper Threading
* IRK – Integrated Root Kit (new feature)
I don’t want like that!
This really stinks, DRM is designed to protect corporate profits, because you and I are not shelling out hard earned cash for every single instance. By instance I mean, the book, the vinyl, the CD, the mp3, the ring tone – ironically all copies of a unique master or “original”, which nobody ever gets to buy.
The solution is very very simple. Stop buying this copyright DRM infested stuff. Worst case, reduce your instances. So if you want to see a new movie, go see it at the cinema, but don’t buy that DVD or soundtrack, don’t download the ringtone and don’t buy the merchandising.
Instead, send the value of goods to an Open Source project (not just linux – there are many others too) which have the potential of hurting big business monopolies on so many levels, but only if enough people take the plunge and get involved. MAKE THEM LISTEN guys, take a stand!
Use ogg instead of mp3/wma/avi, support copy-left and Creative Commons wherever possible and help promote free (like air) alternatives in music, movies, whenever you can.
The right to share information is one of our biggest freedoms, don’t let them take it away.
… a while ago. I can’t stress this enough.
!!! START BUYING ALTERNATIVES !!!
Don’t throw with money at these companies anymore or you’ll be sorry later.
Allow other players to grow and put some pressure on them.
Peace
.. on why DRM.
The whole DRM movement by the industry has many faces. It is the envisioned channel for Service Oriented Software that the industry is trying to transform to.
This transformation in turn happens because the classic selling scheme does not scale that well. Or not to the expectations of the software companies’ stock growth target.
Service based software is the intended path in the future for the big companies to ensure continuous growth of the stock (at least for the next 10 years) and keeping people invest in them, also avoid comodization of the market.
I personally am not sure about people buying into this whole scheme. Hopefully there are alternatives. Running non US manufactured CPUs without the DRM crap is possible. Running a VIA processor with Linux or BSD makes a good solution.
I think the world needs an alternative to US dominated IT arena. CPU+OS+APPS that is.
Peace
Their P4 line sucked and no one cared for their itianium cpu’s anyways. This is just another nail in their coffin. All Amd has to do is to continue making good CPU’s with features people want and prices people will pay for and stay clear of this whole DRM mess and they will be kings of the CPU market.
So… are there any OSS FPGA CPU groups out there?
I’ll buy my last comp within shortly. I’ll never buy a DRM enabled machine… I’ll machine for a couple of years iwthout upgrading until this silly shit is over…
People have been hearing about DRM for a long time, it never sounded good at all. DRM is just another way for the rich industries to claim more control over the market in ways that I would personally consider criminal. So why has it taken so long for awareness to reach the level which its at now, a level which still isn’t high enough to stop DRM.
I don’t know if Pentium 4 chips have some DRM in them yet but I strongly suspect they do and I don’t see any options in my BIOS to disable those “features”. Maybe I’m just paranoid, or maybe the “features” aren’t in use yet but either way I don’t trust my computer any more.
I haven’t heard anything about Apple or Via getting involved in DRM yet, perhaps my next computer should be a mini-itx or a Mac; however, any company could be including DRM without telling their customers, so I don’t know if any of them can be trusted any more.
Apple may have been fortelling the future with their 1984 commercial:
http://www.uriah.com/apple-qt/1984.html
http://www.uriah.com.nyud.net:8090/apple-qt/1984.html
> So… are there any OSS FPGA CPU groups out there?
Yes. Here’s one:
http://www.opencores.org/projects.cgi/web/or1k/overview
On that site there are other cores as well, including several ARM implementations. There are also MIPS, SH2 and Z80-compatible cores. Just don’t expect to find something that will run Windows.
Use free software, you’ll be able to retain your freedom to use your computer in a time of grave danger to basic civil liberties.
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Your missing the point Cloudnine. This is at the hardware level. No matter what OS you run, your rights will be restricted and endangered. Giving remote access to your system to another party (out of your control) is plain wrong.
1) Can Intel be trusted to implement things correctly?
2) Perhaps some encryption is used (I suspect) which means that your system can be comprimized faster as CPU’s keep getting faster. Which in turn will drive the rate at which hardware gets recycled.
To sum it up, this poses a threat to security as well as the speeding up of hardware obsolecency. If there is a flaw or a new encryption scheme needs to be implemented, who says intel will release patchs or release new hardware to buy, so that you system remains secure.
I go to alot of trouble to secure my system, diligently close ports and secure the necessary servicers. Now, this puts intel and others into control of my system.
Disclaimer:
1) I don’t P2P
2) I don’t use bit torrent
3) I don’t even watch movies
4) I don’t listen to music
Choice of Operating Systems and being able to secure it in an effective manner is rendered useless when something like this technology exists. There is no valid reason, other than to support certains aspects of the entertainment industry.
So, if my system gets compromized, then who can I sue? Intel? Recording companies? Movie industry?
For the record p2p or bit torrent isn’t a bad thing abuse of the system is the culprit. Just like the abuse that the entertainment industry is imposing onto the chip makers.
My choice of hardware will either be:
1) Sun
2) Apple
3) AMD (providing they do not implement this technology)
“Total bull. The record industry set a new record on sales of CD’s last year. Same with every other IP-based industry. There is NO proof that P2P has any negative effect on these companies, and several studies showing positive effects. ”
Pro or con, debating help or hurt is like trying to prove exactly how many Linux installations are out there. The evidence is both anecdotal, and open to interpretation.
“The info on the official RIAA web site concerning sales and distribution of CDs DIRECTLY CONTRADICTS their assertions that P2P has damaged their industry. ”
One could argue that FBI crime statistics directly contradict the assertion that most cities are pretty safe.
“Besides, as the courts told the stupid RIAA/MPAA lawyers, it’s NOT piracy or even theft, it’s copyright infringement. The RIAA/MPAA co-opted the term piracy to give the offense more negative connotations in the hopes that the less intelligent would be more swayed to their side of the issue. Copyright infringment ISN’T THEFT, and certainly ISN’T PIRACY. You demean the true definition of these horrific crimes to state otherwise. ”
Moral or ethical right or wrong isn’t determined by what you call it. Actions do speak louder than words. That applies to BOTH sides of the issue.
[ Mr Contraire (IP: —.midd.cable.ntl.com)]
“The solution is very very simple. Stop buying this copyright DRM infested stuff. Worst case, reduce your instances. So if you want to see a new movie, go see it at the cinema, but don’t buy that DVD or soundtrack, don’t download the ringtone and don’t buy the merchandising.”
Of course, however the opportunities for change passed a long time ago. People could and should have voted with their dollars, and at the ballet box. Why didn’t they? Why are some taking the easy way out?
“The right to share information is one of our biggest freedoms, don’t let them take it away.”
As long as it was yours to share to begin with. I know we like to blame this whole situation on big bad government and industry, but like I said above we need to accept some of the responsability for this situation coming about. Either doing something we shouldn’t have (like ‘sharing’ in its entirety someone elses hard work without permission), or not doing something we should have (what’s that about liberty and security again?)
[ CaPtChA (IP: —.hsd1.ma.comcast.net)]
“I think the world needs an alternative to US dominated IT arena. CPU+OS+APPS that is. ”
Well aside from the binary viewpoint. What’s to say that some other government wouldn’t see a benefit to DRM or TC? The US isn’t the world, and the world doesn’t wear white while the US wears black.
>> So… are there any OSS FPGA CPU groups out there?
>Yes. Here’s one:
>http://www.opencores.org/projects.cgi/web/or1k/overview
>On that site there are other cores as well, including several ARM implementations. There are also MIPS, SH2 and Z80-compatible cores. Just don’t expect to find something that will run Windows.
That’s a cool link, thanks!
DRM is silly I agree but at the same (I haven’t researched yet but I will later) what type of DRM scope are they under taking. Personally I think there is only so much they would be able to do before consumer groups step in and for those of you who say “I will seek APPLE or VIA”….I would assume Apple and VIA would end up putting more sooner than later. Especially Apple and its habbit of being sue happy over IP.
As far as ATM, to be honest I work in a large data center that is slowly shifting from HP/SUN/AIX machines to IBM x series boxes that run either windows or linux. This abbility to push a drive image no matter what OS is on the machine is good for that. So in respects I think you would only find this “feature” on e class servers and higher end consumer boards. And like someone else said, I’m sure there would be a way to turn it off.
As long as it was yours to share to begin with. I know we like to blame this whole situation on big bad government and industry, but like I said above we need to accept some of the responsability for this situation coming about. Either doing something we shouldn’t have (like ‘sharing’ in its entirety someone elses hard work without permission), or not doing something we should have (what’s that about liberty and security again?)
————————————————————-
Accept responsibility? I have acted in a lawful manner, period.
Why not use smart cards for use with their damn movies and music. Allowing remote access into someones machine is evil. The potential for abuse is too great. Think about the state of most computer users systems, bot’d / trojaned and what not.
1) Can I trust Intel to act in a responsible manner?
2) Can I trust who ever has remote access to my system to act in a responsible manner?
Let me point this out, there are enough business that do not operate in an ethical manner. How about searching the web for corporate abuse, see how many results you get retured.
The ability to abuse the system is too great. Who is to say some company or some up and young coming hacker finds a flaw. Now your system is owned, just to protect the media companies.
Well, who protects the consumer? Will Intel, RIAA, MPAA step up to the plate for damages due done to my system because someone pentrated my system due to their flaw?
Intel has enough cash, they should be prepared for several class actions if they do not take due dilagence. There are not EULA for hardware. Anyone from Intel reading this, see you in court for any inconvience based on your flawed technological ideals.
enjoy….
Funny you should ask!
I have been working on a new Transputer for several years, just starting to reveal details.
FPGAs can only deliver about 150Mips per cpu but atleast in the Transputer architecture you can scale them to as many as you need. Each core or PE uses maybe 1 watt, and theoretically (but probably not in practice) 220 can fit into the largest FPGAs although I am only shooting for 20 or so in the lower priced parts. The limit is really how much memory manager bandwidth can be included and the special RLDRAM interface which makes it possible. The design is a 4way threaded core with message passing, process scheduling, managed memory objects and so on, ie the kernal is in the HW as it was in the original Transputer, only a few more things are in too.
The neat thing is the design is pretty straightforward, compares with the Niagara/RMI-Raza multithreaded designs but about 1/5th the clock in FPGA. EEs can add whatever HW features on the side they would want. It has no FPU included but one could be added, unfortunately FPU is very expensive in FPGA, each FPU would cost several PEs but that may be worth it.
As for open source HW, I haven’t decided what my license will be, BSD/GPL/Qt/or just plain $. Since no one has helped to do the cpu or compiler development, I am obviously not keen on just handing a couple of years of work for 0 return. I will see how it goes.
One feature it will never have is DRM or any such invasive technology.
I do this design not because of what Intel is doing but because I feel the entire current PC cpu architecture is wrong. Right now my XP2400 might runs inner loops in a few ns or >1 us depending whether it iterates through memory in linear or entirely in random pattern outside the cache, (the dreaded memory wall).
This design would run about 3-5x slower than an Athlon but it’s performance is constant no matter the memory patterns since it uses 4way threading & 8way threaded RLDRAM 20ns to hide most memory latences. Since each PE is a $ of FPGA logic, I can just use a few of them to make up the 5x difference.
If a BeOS OS were run on top of it, I would be in heaven since the kernal is already in the HW but thats somebody elses project.
anyway I post updates on comp,sys.transputer monthly.
regards
johnjakson
transputer2 at yahoo dot com
hey guys, stop sueing the hardware manufacturers, they are just rescueing their buts.
they all need the ‘designed for windows longhorn’ logo, and they’ll probably don’t get it without these feature.
so what do you expect them to do?
“o.k., we’ll sell 90% less hardware to our beloved linux users?”
come on, behind the curtain microsoft is pushing this, so don’t sue its henchmen!
It seems that everyone here is going to boycott intel and buy a non DRM chip…. which I think via is the only cpu company that is not part of the inititive.
However this is simply a new feature, and like every other hardware feature you are going to need software to exploit it. So while this will probibly kill off any chance of being able to buy DRM’d media (As the software will require the chip), there isn’t a problem if you run an operating system with *your* interests in mind. It is likely that the new hardware will not be used by Open Source Operating systems.
As for the IDE redirection crap, well that is dangerous (Though usefull for large orgs), and should be able to be disabled sooner or later, pretty much normal rules apply… wait a little while and see if a real world problem comes up before you buy.
Pretty much as long as you remain in control of the software you will remain in control of your system.
As a side note, this will effectivly kill any chance of the media stores like iTMS being ported to linux. DRM is worthless if it’s output is intercepted by the Operating System. And the media companies can’t “trust” an OS if you can put your own code in the kernel. So if music / video is available, it will be for the most common desktop distro running the stock binary kernel only.
BR (IP: —.224.141.94.Dial1.Cincinnati1.Level3.net)
“Of course, however the opportunities for change passed a long time ago. People could and should have voted with their dollars, and at the ballet box. Why didn’t they? Why are some taking the easy way out?”
I disagree. The time is right for change when the masses begin to realise the consequences of this particular action, when the tipping point is reached ie. when they can no longer play and share video content with friends, when they can no longer trade anything, AT ALL, then hopefully they finally ask “Why not?”.
Many people did and still do vote with their dollars, sadly it’s an uphill struggle because the core of the very media which we all rely on to keep us informed, is mostly owned by the same corporate monoliths who are stealthily DRM’ing our expensive “counterfieting equipment” (ie. bog-standard pcs and DVD entertainment systems). Ironic too that these are the very same corporate monoliths who manufacture DVD writers, computers, and entertainment systems.
We have the internet and each other, we can at least for now share information and details about this insane situation, and the merits of Open Source projects and make an effort to kick start something.
‘The right to share information is one of our biggest freedoms, don’t let them take it away.’
“As long as it was yours to share to begin with. I know we like to blame this whole situation on big bad government and industry, but like I said above we need to accept some of the responsability for this situation coming about. Either doing something we shouldn’t have (like ‘sharing’ in its entirety someone elses hard work without permission), or not doing something we should have (what’s that about liberty and security again?)”
I’ve had this argument sooooo many times, and the fors and againsts are almost infinite. The whole idea of Open Source (anything) is that you DO have the right to share something, it’s encouraged infact. Other similarly “free” schemes are growing in numbers too, things like Creative Commons are beginning to gain momentum. My girlfriend purchased a book recently by Cory Doctorew called “Down and Out in the Magic Kingdom”, and interestingly you can download the entire book for free, talk about it, turn it into pirate speak, all with the blessing of Cory himself.
http://craphound.com/down/
(it’s a fun book btw, with some great ideas – very geeky
As for what I should and shouldn’t do – I just purchased and read a book, then supplied you all with the link to go download it for free, and all without breaching the “rights” of the author.
[ CaPtChA (IP: —.hsd1.ma.comcast.net)]
“I think the world needs an alternative to US dominated IT arena. CPU+OS+APPS that is. ”
BR (IP: —.224.141.94.Dial1.Cincinnati1.Level3.net)
“Well aside from the binary viewpoint. What’s to say that some other government wouldn’t see a benefit to DRM or TC? The US isn’t the world, and the world doesn’t wear white while the US wears black.”
Most governments are DRM savvy, and have become so mostly due to pressure from the US. I find it really interesting that Chinese companies have recently invented their own DVD format to circumvent levys and patent royalties.
… for this thing to work there needs to be network access. It’s quite simple to block that access with an older hardware linux firewall.
And frankly I don’t think that hardware DRM will be much better than software DRM. Will be cracked in a flash.
And out on the wings we have the PowerPC, seems to be sitting at the corner of the court year, kicking some leaves, mind its own business.
I’ve love to see a business put together a viable model for the PowerPC 970 as a standard desktop; get Linux working nicely on there, along with FreeBSD, and encourage Microsoft to port Windows accross (partial payment of costs? heck, Microsoft ported to Itanium, and for all intensive purposes, that processor has been a failure when compared to the POWER5/PowerPC).
You are pretty nieve if you believe that any boycott or “voting with dollars” can fix the situation. What consumer/employee types don’t realize is that if you want something to change, you have to control it. If you want to stop Intel from shipping DRM, don’t boycott them, start buying up shares. Now, Intel is a really large company with a large market cap, so it takes a lot of money to but enough of Intel to have any control. This is the problem with large multinational corporations. The idea of a corporation was developed long before globalization and the Internet. Corporate law makes today’s corporations too strong, and enslaves the working class. But there is one force that still makes any corporation squirm: litigation. Buy Intel shares, wait for the inevitable screw up (the first person’s computer to be formatted remotely by a script kiddie), a little longer for the share price to dive, and file suit. Its better if all of us own some shares, and then we can file a class action suit, on the grounds that Intel mislead shareholders by claiming AMT is secure.
Intel is not adding Digital Rights Managment (DRM) to their chipset or cpu. Intel is shipping the same Trusted Platform Module (TPM) that IBM has been shipping in thinkpads for 2 years. A TPM is not equal to DRM. A TPM has 3 kinds of functionality. These include the public key functions, trusted boot functions and TPM managment functions.
The public key functions allow for “on chip” keypair generation and secure storage of your private keys. This is actually neat, it means you do not have to store your private key on the filesystem. It is still vulnerable to local attacks but less vulnerable to remote attacks. The TPM does not come with any keys installed by default, there is no master key, and there is no Trusted Computing Certificate Authority. You are in complete control of the keys in your TPM.
The trusted boot function is really cool as well. I can sign my GNU/Linux kernel and my machine will only boot from a signed kernel. I can also make it so my machine will only run signed binaries. The key to this is I am the one who is signing the binaries, I decide what will and will not run on my machine. I am in control, not intel, not microsoft, not ibm, ME. Check out Trusted Gentoo or TrustedGRUB.
Finally the TPM managment functions allow the owner of the machine to turn the TPM on or off, reset the TPM, etc.
I am actually excited about getting a machine with a TPM, but I don’t run windows. A TPM is nothing to fear, using a machine with a TPM in combination with a non-free operating system is something to fear. Microsoft is extending the work of the Trusted Computing Platform Alliance (TCPA) to serve its own means (Paladium/NGSCB). If you want to boycott someone don’t boycott Intel, boycott Microsoft.
A TPM will only make GNU/Linux and the BSD distros more secure. There is already GPL code to allow GNU/Linux and the BSD distros to utilize the functionality of the TPM.
http://www.gentoo.org/news/20050202-trustedgentoo.xml
http://www.prosec.rub.de/trusted_grub.html
https://www.trustedcomputinggroup.org/home
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/can-you-trust.html
This is correct. DRM by itself is not necessarily evil. What is evil is DRM at the BIOS level or DRM in conjunction with proprietory software e.g. Microsoft Windows.
I am already boycotting Microsoft(I am a happy Linux user) and I will boycott Intel as well since they push DRM only to be using with Windows and turned against the user at one point.
An even more grave danger is DRM at the BIOS level. In fact, I am calling for your help to do something about that: http://www.fsf.org/campaigns/free-bios.html
Simply put, BS
Do you disagree with my assertion that a Trusted Platform Module is not, in and of itself, DRM?
Do you disagree with my assertion that a TPM, when properly used, will make a GNU/Linux or BSD system more secure?
Do you believe I have some factual error in my post?
Please elaborate.
Arguing that a Trusted Platform Module is bad because it allows the vendor of a non-free operating system to use it for DRM is no better than arguing that encrytion is bad because terrorists or child pronographers might make use of it.
Afraid of DRM? Use a free operating system and quit supporting the media companies that are attempting to push DRM standards. Boycott Microsoft and any artist represented by the RIAA and MPAA. Support free software, local artisits and independent media
Some good points on DRM there Max – btw do you have any insights on Intel’s “AMT” – would there be an option to disable this feature in the BIOS ?
…the entire industry wants this. It’s only a matter of time before AMD, IBM etc. introduce it.
Blame the “warez d00dz”. IP piracy has reached a level where it hurts all IP-based industries (i.e. movie, music, software etc.) so massively that they use all their lobbying power to stop it.
Are there actually facts and figures to back this up (other than those provided by those industries)?
People talk about the massive harm that MP3 file sharing has done to the music industry, yet last year CD sales were up in the USA. In the UK it was one of the best years ever for music sales and worldwide sales seem to be healthy. I certainly don’t see any real evidence that extreme measures need to be taken to stop industry being hurt. Not when those measures could hurt users who aren’t breaking any laws.
How strange! all screwed company are same.
Well, i am happy with UR pentium II-233(Actually i didn’t buy it, i got it from garbage can.
)
now i am checking IBM CELL cpu.
I can’t really speak to Intel’s AMT. If I get a board with AMT I will disable it if possible as I have no use for it.
The hardware industry seam to want DRM. Intel, AMD all will have it. So we can’t boycott any of them if we still want new computers. We could however, boycott software and media companies that make use of this technology.
This would be a much better way to stop this than try to boycott Intel.
>> The hardware industry seam to want DRM. Intel, AMD all will have it. <<
Agreed, although in an implicit sense, I think it goes much higher than that Uno… – Governments and the state will no doubt be quite happy for us to access public services etc, etc…… via our Trusted computing devices – think it’s all part of a package – the citizen, ID, Biometrics, Trusted devices and the State and so on.
Considering that one has to write software to take advantage of those capabilities offered by Intels new processor; one can easily choose to use a piece of software that doesn’t hooked into the technology. There are still a sizeable number of rippers and encoders out there that don’t use DRM, so what is stopping everyone from using those?
Regarding DRM itself, my problem is this; not so much the idea of stopping piracy, I’m all for that, but at the same time, by the powers that be pushing DRM, it gives them too much control over the files on my computer, and the ability to stop me from accessing that content at anytime they see fit. Sure, stop piracy, but at the same time, weigh up consumer freedoms with protecting IP.
@ Maxwell309 (IP: —.dhcp4.washington.edu)
I think alot of people here think that because it is in the hardware level, everything will be DRM’ed. What they fail to realise is this; first of all, the operating system must take advantage of it; aka, provide an interface for software writers to write using the new technology, aka, an TPM API; THEN ontop of that, software writers THEN have to write their software SPECIFICALLY for that API, meaning, unless the two happen, one is going to be forced into DRM usage.
Heck, if people want to continue using non-DRM encoders and rippers, they’re very welcome to do that.
@ JK (IP: —.cache.pol.co.uk)
I agree with your assessment on the music industry, the software industry is the same; they make grand assumptions on the dollar value of piracy; they first of all assume that the person would buy it if there was no alternative, and secondly, they assume that the person wouldn’t try to seek a cheaper alternative.
I take Larry’s (Oracle CEO) stance on the issue; those who will pay for the software, will always do the legal thing and pay for it. Those who aren’t the target customers of Oracle will never purchase the software – in other words, nothing lost.
Same goes for Adobe; those who buy Adobe software, their “core customer base” will ALWAYS buy the legal version, because of the perks of it, and the fact that its use in a business enviornment where random audits are done; those who pirate it, aka, “Mum and Dad, first time computer user, who picks up $2 cd from Bali with Photoshop”, would never have purchased it anyway, so there is no money lost in the first place.
Whether it takes proprietory software or not DRM is a dangerous step in the wrong direction and invites future abuse and privacy violations. Fact is that Intel is pushing DRM on us. We need to send Intel a clear signal that we do not want or tolerate DRM and vote with our wallets. This is about the only and most effective way you can voice opinion.
I have a Dell XPS Gen 1…came with an Intel Prescott….boy is that the last time that company gets my money. I am buying AMDs from now on. My younger brother has had AMD procs all the way thru…go AMD!
i will never buy another intel product ever again.
I really hope AMD doesn’t do this too. because then i will have to keep my current chip for a long time, till something gets released that doesn’t, take control of your computer. mabey ibm cell, or some via chip.
if intel wanted to be hated worse than microsoft, this is the best thing they could have done. if they wanted to remain selling chips, this is the worst thing they could do… microsoft manages to do drm because they are not easily replacable. you just can’t replace windows with linux, and expect to run all your programs. however, intel is *EASILY* replaced. and im shocked they would even try this after that CHIP ID number thing. Adding DRM into the chip IMO is FAR worse a thing to do than the number id. If i had intel stock, i would SELL it because i know they are going to take it hard in the pockets for this, and rightfully so. Then they will stop shipping processors with what i like to call, built in parenting to try to repair the damage, just wait and see.
Yes, for much of it, the individal will indeed have to have software to make use of the underlying hardware – the part that I found notable was the OS independant access at a “lower level” – not entirely sure what they’re getting at with that??
I really hope AMD doesn’t do this too. because then i will have to keep my current chip for a long time, till something gets released that doesn’t, take control of your computer. mabey ibm cell, or some via chip.
Sadly, I think they’ll all move in that direction in the near future…. AMD included.
Yes, for much of it, the individal will indeed have to have software to make use of the underlying hardware – the part that I found notable was the OS independant access at a “lower level” – not entirely sure what they’re getting at with that??
How much of it is actually accessibly at a lower level? the DRM will have to be only accessible via API’s, and the remote management is an old story – its always been possible with servers, which have a mini OS built in, which allows remote management etc.
Well, theoretically they could check for the presence of DRM on the media at that lower level, and then if the API isn’t used, refuse access to said media. Of course there has to be output at some point, and you can always reverse engineer some way to capture that output to a file or more managable stream. The problem is you’re likely to lose error detection and correction capabilities of apps such as CD Paranoia and EAC, and open yourself up to prosecution under the DMCA.
Obviously nobody is talking much about the technology at this point, but I don’t think they can squeeze so much under our noses without easing their way in first.
All this talk about AMD, again, it’s been mentioned several times in this thread: they’re at the top of the list of supporters. To successfully boycott this thing you have to go to VIA or Transmeta, a move most won’t be willing to make. On the positive side, you’ll have to have support in the BIOS or at least motherboard chipset for this to work, so VIA will likely be a refuge if things get too bad, as might ALi and SiS. (I’m sure they could make the CPU refuse to function without it, but again, not without prepping the market for such abuse)
If you want to ‘vote with your dollars’, try buying a VIA chipset motherboard next time around, and don’t forget to email them letting them know why you bought their chipset. And when you can get away with using a VIA CPU, like in an HTPC or firewall, then do it.
Personally I could care less if they’re only refusing access of DRM’d material to a P2P, FTP, or HTTP transfer. If I can encode the music I buy to FLAC, play it over NFS with a network aware media player… then I’m fine. Ok, that’s going to be a really big if one of these days…
E-mail this story to every online/paper newspaper in the world, hoping Intel recieve a bad reputation. That’s the one thing that will stop them. Let Intel know that you’re not going to buy an Intel chipset next time around, and buy VIA.
I’m ok with DRM stuff. Maybe this time the majors would finally realize the problem is not with mp3 downloading or DVD rips, but by the fact that lately songs and movies are absolute crap. (with just a few exceptions)
It’s not a coincidence that my p2p download queue is been empty since last year… mmmh….
The really scary thing is the overall AMT feature. That’s scary as hell. And it doesn’t matter if it’s disabled, secured or whatever. The simple fact that it exists is a potential issue. Anyway my business runs entirely on AMD machines, let’s hope AMD doesn’t add this “IDE-redirection” themselves.
heck, if intel doesn’t like you they could format your computer and install pirated software over the net. then send the law to come arrest you. lol. just a scenario, for misuse. not saying that it would be possible, or that intel would do that.
> From Tom’s Hardware Guide: http://www.tomshardware.com/cpu/20050509/index.html
> […] It even exceeds 310 W when working
I do not really know how much more powerful the new Intel might be compared to a not precisely new PowerPC 970FX 2GHz, but somewhere I read IBM’s consumes ~25W. That makes a dual 2Ghz somewhere above 50W.
Am I missing something or what?
Sorry to disappoint you, but VIA is implementing their own ‘security’ technology in their CPU’s as well.
Refer to PPC970FX’s max power http://www-03.ibm.com/technology/power/newsletter/august2004/articl…
you CAN disable ATM from BIOS.
Hey! no more HAX11!!LOLOMMG!!NOOB@@
I guess noone here knows that a lot of servers have hardware remote administration… were there any exploits? eeee? no? why not?
No matter what we say here, stupid people are still going to buy Intel and what ever new ideal they come up with. I was an Intel chipset/cpu supporter from my 80386 that I have to my upgraded AMD 80486 to a Intel Pentium I 200 Mhz to my old computer which I upgraded from a Intel pentium II 350 Mhz to a Intel pentium III 450 Mhz to a Intel pentium III 500 Mhz which I sold. I now have a computer that has a Pentium 4 3.0 Ghz and all my mother boards all have Intel chipset. My notebook also has Intel CPU, one is a 25Mhz, 33 Mhz, I not sure of the company who made the computer. Then I have a Toshiba 486 with Intel’s 486 DX4 75, Acer Pentium I, which I upgraded from a 133Mhz to a 166Mhz. My current notebook is a IBM Thinkpad with Intel’s Pentium II 333Mhz processor and I think the chipset on all these noteboks are all Intel.
With all that and to find out that Intel is going to put DRM in there next line tell me that this computer that I have is going to be my last one until they abandon DRM but millions are going to go out and buy into this just so there new computer can do less then there last computer. The 8088 would be a better choice to this DRM infected ideal because even though it can’t run music or XP or video or alot of thing we do today, it still can do word processing, spread sheeting, data basing, email, small amount of surfing, etc. So tomorror computer is going to be highly graphical high speed XT.
People shoould either call, write, or email these company and tell them that we don’t want this bull on our computer but most people are just going to do nothing and allow these company impose what ever they want. I think I going to contact Intel and tell them that I am refusing to buy anything like this.
Most of AMD engineers came from DEC Alpha group, including the current president Hector Ruiz. My cash goes for AMD.
neat project! I had an idea similiar to that but lack the knowledge to make anything. Glad to see someone is!
Why don’t we make May 31 the official anti-DRM day and all call Intel and tell them what we think of their new DRM enabled Pentium D line:
(800)-628-8686 Company Information – General Inquiries
(800)-538-3373 Products and Services – Pre-Sales Questions
I’m in for that, now if only we could get millions of people to phone up Intel and tell them what we think. I going to post the phone number on ZeroPaid web site and try to get other there to also join in on this anti-DRM day.
This is all very scary. If this trend continues, maybe in a not so distant future all CPUs will have some king of DRM and AMT.
One of the most effective ways for us users to show our discontent is through boycott. If sales of a CPU maker that is still not very actively involved in this trend starts to rise, this will be a clear message to rogue CPU makers.
I will read more about this serious issue, but for now I will stop buying Intel and use AMD CPUs in my new computers.
AMD and Intel both wouldn’t give a rip if every single OSNews reader stopped buying their processors. In fact, they probably still wouldn’t care if all slashdot readers stopped buying as well; so long as they still get whatever benefits the MPAA and Microsoft may have in store for them.
Their worst nightmare is this headline:
Intel Pentium XYZ not Compatible with Microsoft Windows ABC!
Anyway, in the big scheme of things the .01% of CPU buyers that exist here don’t even compare to that headline!
If you really wanna get at Intel, don’t just stop buying their stuff: Tell all your friends and family that the technology industry along with the movie and music industry has made a serious push to control their PC experience. Tell them they want to say how and when you can play your DVD, and they wanna say how many devices you can listen to that great new music cd on! Tell them they will install software without your permission using cd’s (this was already done recently). Fill their heads with fear (preferably things you can prove may happen, not things you make up) of the industry.
Of course, I think some of this stuff has to do with hardware encryption and such which could be a very nice feature.
Please note, just as “Wrawrat” mentioned earlier, AMD are maybe not the solution everyone keeps citing, when they’re so involved in creating the problem.
See : https://www.trustedcomputinggroup.org/home/409153.pdf
Intel, AMD, HP and Microsoft – all named as the “brains” behind the new “secure and trusted” push (read : we know who you are)
@Chris : I agree, OSNews readers are a very small drip in an extraordinarily vast ocean of computer users, however we are all well-connected drips, capable of influencing many many more….lets make some waves!
As for the “security” aspects of these new features, it’s smoke and mirrors I reckon. I remember all the havoc this created when MS announced their Palladium thing a couple of years back, and most of the arguments boiled down to pressure from the media industries to provide a hardware-based solution to their “mass piracy” problem.
The scary thing is also those who are eagerly looking forward to Longhorn….Longhorn is also implementing DRM thru the software. Now for me there are 2 ways to look at this if AMD is also implementing it. One is to move to Linux and I dont have much of a problem with that, another is to stick with windows XP and I dont have much of a problem with that either considering MS is releasing every longhorn technology for XP as well…and thirdly would be to check out what this whole DRM deal is about by buying Longhorn and an AMD multicore proc with DRM enabled. Also dont forget that even mobo manufacturers are supposedly going to have the fritz chip built into motherboards. I think this is ridiculous…any idea of having people to have a v-chip on their computer is ridiculous. I game and all my games are paid for and bought. I dont download the mp3s that people tend to download of Britney Spears and all that rot. What I download are music from artists who have no problems giving their music away for free, internet radio streams, live recorded shows and so on so forth. I dont even rip my cds! And every other programming tool I use is open source, from Netbeans to JEdit, to MinGW and OpenOFfice. I even donate money to those guys so that they can continue their awesome work.
I am quite confident however that a lot of usres are going to be able to bypass the so-called drm stuff…but windows media player 10 already has drm and if it is unnoticeable…the way it is right now and is unnoticeable in the future, then so be it.
I however think that people losing money is bull. So they dont buy the cd but they go to the concerts!! And for every moron buying a cd full of pop culture crap…there is another smart person avoiding it. ITs plain simple. If people want to blame the customers and consumers for poor record sales…its cause the consumers dont think the stuff is good and thats why they are not buying it. Not because they are all always freeloaders.
My 2 cetns.
“@Chris : I agree, OSNews readers are a very small drip in an extraordinarily vast ocean of computer users, however we are all well-connected drips, capable of influencing many many more….lets make some waves!
”
That’s rather debatable, especially since a lot of us “drips” can’t even keep our jobs from heading overseas.
“As for the “security” aspects of these new features, it’s smoke and mirrors I reckon.”
Some of it is, but security is the big topic of 2005, and people will use any tool available to feel secure.
“Intel, AMD, HP and Microsoft – all named as the “brains” behind the new “secure and trusted” push (read : we know who you are) ”
Someone mentioned the Cell processor. I belive that it may have some DRM features.
Also there’s one thing for everyone to keep in mind in this day and age of megacorporations. The left hand produces content, while the right hand produces devices that read that content. Truely a tug-of-war.
A long time ago, I remembered reading about how Senator Orin Hatch was in support of technology to warn pirates twice and then destroy their system remotely if they didn’t play nice.
This new technology from Intel sounds like it will fit the bill for just that.
http://www.anandtech.com/news/shownews.aspx?i=19802&ATVAR_START=61&…
Also, there is no guarantee that it can be shut off. Even if there is a shut off, it may remain enabled for law enforcement agencies, regardless.
I thought about switching to Mac before, but I don’t want to spend that much money, & the games are lacking on the mac side. I got a AMD a few years ago, and will get AMD’s unless they do this AMT crap.
“Accept responsibility? I have acted in a lawful manner, period. ”
Didn’t say you didn’t. However we should all keep in mind that those who do violate copyrights aren’t doing anyone any favours, and are simply adding fuel to the fire. With friends like that, who needs enemies? Anyway, yes it’s possible to abuse as long as it’s out of our control.
[ butters (IP: —.dsl.austtx.swbell.net)]
Think of the whole situation like a big slope. Now if you roll a bowling ball down that slope. Will it be easier to stop it near the top, or at the bottom? If our actions are extreamist, it’s because we didn’t stop the situation near it’s start.
[Mr Contraire (IP: —.midd.cable.ntl.com)]
“As for what I should and shouldn’t do – I just purchased and read a book, then supplied you all with the link to go download it for free, and all without breaching the “rights” of the author. ”
That’s good, but part of this situation arose exactly because a minority chose to NOT respect the authors intent. And before you all go on some MPAA/RIAA rant. Need I remind all of you that plagerism, and content “borrowing” crosses all forms of content, at all scales from some persons personal web-site to whole-scale “counterfitting”.* The news doesn’t even begin to cover the extent of the problem, and proably never will. And with our technology outpacing social responsibilty, the situation will only get worse.
I should likewise point out while I’m here that the smaller content producers may likewise support DRM and TC.
Intel is not “adding DRM” to their CPU. Intel is bundling a TPM on their latest boards, probably the Atmel AT97SC3201 that has been bundled in some IBM hardware for the last 2 years.
A TPM is not DRM. A TPM is an encryption device that help safeguard private keys will allow the user greater control over what binaries are allowed to run on their system. There is already GPL code to help free software developers use the TPM in ways that increase the amount of control the owner of the equipment has over it. Unless you are using a non-free operating system (hello Microsoft Next Generation Secure Computing Base) the TPM gives you more control over your machine, not less. The moral of this story? Use a free operating system such as GNU/Linux or a BSD.
There is no hidden key that controls the users machine. If you buy a thinkpad today it has an Atmel TPM in it. The TPM has no keys in it when it is shipped to you from IBM. You can install any operating system you like on your thinkpad. When you see fit you can generate a public/private keypair using the TPM. The TPM does not usurp control of your thinkpad from you.
AMD is not a viable solution for avoiding the TCPA. They are a member of the TCPA and will be shipping TPMs in the future. Likewise, VIA is not opposed to the TCPA. You can, today, buy VIA C3 boards that include a “TCPA Security ASIC” which I believe must be a TPM. Transmeta is incorporating TPM-like functionality into their processors, see the TM5800.
The problem is not the TPM hardware. The problem is non-free operating systems. Intel systems with the TPM will boot whatever you OS you see fit and if properly configured only the OS you sign with your private key. God help you if you cling to Windows.
Avoid DRM, use free software!
I suggest people read Richard Stallman’s essay on treacherous computing and decide if a TPM is treacherous computing.
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/can-you-trust.html
If a TPM is used by you to control what software is run on your system, and if a TPM is used by you to keep your GPG keys safe is it treacherous computing? If you have complete and total control over the TPM is it treacherous computing?
@BR (IP: —.224.153.116.Dial1.Cincinnati1.Level3.net)
“However we should all keep in mind that those who do violate copyrights aren’t doing anyone any favours, and are simply adding fuel to the fire. With friends like that, who needs enemies? Anyway, yes it’s possible to abuse as long as it’s out of our control.”
You have some interesting views, and I mostly agree with what you’re saying, though you’re more right wing than I when it comes to copy “rights”. I tend to cut people more slack, because I know that in many of the “questionable” areas like music DRM, there’s a lot of greyness.
Apple’s iPod DRM for instance, a fine example of how to annoy consumers, even Hilary Rosen wrote a blog complaining about how she couldn’t share her music with….herself!!
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/theblog/archive/2005/05/steve-jobs-le…
‘As for what I should and shouldn’t do – I just purchased
and read a book, then supplied you all with the link to go download it for free, and all without breaching the “rights” of the author.’
BR (IP: —.224.153.116.Dial1.Cincinnati1.Level3.net)
“That’s good, but part of this situation arose exactly because a minority chose to NOT respect the authors intent.”
I don’t agree with that. Firstly, this “situation” is not just about people sharing files, movies, music or whatever. It’s about Corporations controlling the flow of information, period. This would have happened no matter what, and just because there’s been a window of opportunity for people to go all “hippy” and share things other than love, the Corporations (and Governments) would still have eventually implemented a rigid information control mechanism. The internet is far too free, in every way (I’m just waiting for the terrorism card anytime soon to justify this lock-down). It still amuzes me to think back to the seeds of Napster, I remember reading about Mr Fanning insisting to his friends that folks WOULD share music if given the opportunity, boy was he right!
Secondly, “authors intent” implies the copyright-wielding record companies and movie studios, who have been put on the spot on more than one occasion by the real “author” specifically embracing file sharing, encouraging the sharing of their work and even rewarding it in some instances.
The real “authors” often shout the loudest when another 14 y/o is fish-hooked by RIAA trawlers. My point is than not ALL artists/authors are against file sharing, as you imply.
“And before you all go on some MPAA/RIAA rant. Need I remind all of you that plagerism, and content “borrowing” crosses all forms of content, at all scales from some persons personal web-site to whole-scale “counterfitting”.* The news doesn’t even begin to cover the extent of the problem, and proably never will. And with our technology outpacing social responsibilty, the situation will only get worse.”
That’s an interesting point of discussion. You highlight a “web-site” as a re-enforcement of whole-scale counterfeiting, in the context of MPAA/RIAA. Two polar-extremes would be harder to find! Web-sites are a completely different distribution model to a movie or soundtrack, thankfully we are not charged every time we read OSNews, every time we print an OSNews page, every time we post an OSNews link to a friend.
I truly believe the whole distribution system for music and movies needs to be re-examined, but then I am, in Bill Gates’ eyes, a communist!
As for the news, low and behold a story recently about supporting terrorism through piracy…sigh.
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20050528-4952.html
“I should likewise point out while I’m here that the smaller content producers may likewise support DRM and TC.”
More don’t than do. DRM means licencing, means cutting into profits, means tighter margins, and the possibility of a few bad articles or reviews pointing out DRM/TC to an indie means so much more than to a Corporate monolith.
@Maxwell309 : Thanks for the clarification
@The French : Thanks for voting non!
i don’t understand why they even bother doing this kind of stuff. even though it sounds like it will protect the rights of others peoples media. how can it? if you can hear it, you can create your own file. if you can see it, you can create your own file.. does this new technology prohibit you sharing stuff that you create? probably not. or if it does, will we have to pay extra for a system that can create content?
so lets say they make an encrypted cd format that wont work on computers that dont have drm. people will get around this the same exact way they did before many people even had cd roms. they will buy themselves a portable player, get a stereo headphones output jack. and play the analog signal into the computer and record it.
the only thing that would make this hard, is if the new system only allowed digital speakers or headphones to be used. then many people, would just smash open the headphones, rip off the tiny speakers then connect those wires to an analog cable. but im sure people would sell devices to make that easier.
what i want to know, is how much money are they going to waste on developing these kinds of technologies, before they realise that fighting it is never going to work.
I do hope sevearal of you know that AMD is also in on this DRM stuff. I was looking to build a new computer soon, but it may be even sooner. I’ll treat the DRM stuff in the chips like I do with software I buy: If I cant crack the DRM or activation, I dont buy. If I can, then I will buy. If there is a way to disable the DRM then I’ll be fine. Otherwise, I’ll be upgrading sooner than I think and miss out on these “features” that no one asked for, yet the companies think we need so desperately…
“You have some interesting views, and I mostly agree with what you’re saying, though you’re more right wing than I when it comes to copy “rights”. I tend to cut people more slack, because I know that in many of the “questionable” areas like music DRM, there’s a lot of greyness.”
I think the situation can be summed up under the heading of respect (morals and ethics too, but that’s very dicey ground these days). The content producer (whomever that may be) provides something that others are unwilling, or unable to provide themselves. Usually with the understanding that there’s a reciprocal agreement in place (of a variable nature). This applies regardless of weither one is talking about commercial music and audiance. Or OSS programmer and user. In the case of music it’s usually a monetary exchange. In the case of OSS it’s usually more intangiable, but it’s still there. A lack of respect would be in the former someone downloading and copying to the world, even when the musician has made clear his or her intentions. In the latter would be a leech.
“I don’t agree with that. Firstly, this “situation” is not just about people sharing files, movies, music or whatever. It’s about Corporations controlling the flow of information, period. This would have happened no matter what, and just because there’s been a window of opportunity for people to go all “hippy” and share things other than love, the Corporations (and Governments) would still have eventually implemented a rigid information control mechanism. The internet is far too free, in every way (I’m just waiting for the terrorism card anytime soon to justify this lock-down). It still amuzes me to think back to the seeds of Napster, I remember reading about Mr Fanning insisting to his friends that folks WOULD share music if given the opportunity, boy was he right! ”
Well that’s why I said “partly”. However you also have a valid point. Howver as I mentioned previously. Violating copyright “because we can” isn’t going to help “the cause”, and in fact may hurt it by providing the justification, as well as making the job of those who are fighting against all of the above within the system, much harder.
Plus I’m not “implying” that all artist are against file sharing. Like I said, it’about respecting the artists wishes. Ask yourself this. If you told me not to share whatever you produce with a thousand and one people and I did? Wouldn’t I really be sending the message “I don’t respect you and I’ll do whatever I want”?
“That’s an interesting point of discussion. You highlight a “web-site” as a re-enforcement of whole-scale counterfeiting, in the context of MPAA/RIAA. Two polar-extremes would be harder to find! Web-sites are a completely different distribution model to a movie or soundtrack, thankfully we are not charged every time we read OSNews, every time we print an OSNews page, every time we post an OSNews link to a friend. ”
I think you’re missing my point. Respect for others is waning in our society. However you chose to define “others” it is happening. From someone plagerising someones personal web-site all the way to someone making mass counterfits of say a brand name. It’s not about “business models” and it never was.
“More don’t than do. DRM means licencing, means cutting into profits, means tighter margins, and the possibility of a few bad articles or reviews pointing out DRM/TC to an indie means so much more than to a Corporate monolith. ”
Depends on who’s controlling what. being small only means that you feel the consequences of others actions more acutely.