Sun’s Schwartz isn’t alone in saying that hardware will someday be “free,” so long as customers sign up for multiyear software subscriptions and services contracts. Microsoft Corp. Chairman Bill Gates has said he believes that, within a few years, hardware will be free and that software will be bought on a subscription basis, rather than as a one-time purchase that must be upgraded routinely.
Sun Rolls Out New Products, Services; Says Hardware will be Free
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Eugenia Loli
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computers are made to fulfil a task. That task is hardly having a 3ghz CPU or something like that but rather producing something may it be photo editing or hosting webpages. Why not just pay for that service instead and let the vendor provide you with appropriate HW for the task.
Interesting vision…
I now think this is possible, also. Just look at phone subscriptions…
And IBM wants to make money on the hardware. Sounds like a battle royale is / has been going on.
Didn’t we try this during the Dot-Bomb?
If hardware is available for free with a subscription for software this will make computers more accessible for people who aren’t as tech savvy as most who would be reading this. They wouldn’t have to know anything about hardware because it would be provided for them. They wouldn’t need to know much about software beyond the basic functions that they’re paying their subscription fees for.
As these free computers start to gain market share, hardware manufacturers will slow production of standard pc components bringing the prices back up to premium. for those of us who would rather use an open-source alternative operating system, our only choice might be to pony up the cash since most linux providers could not afford to develop hardware platforms that could be given away with a subscription.
Unless some existing compaines (ie.IBM/RedHat) start to consider the likelyhood of this type of service based business on an end-user level than there could be major setbacks in alternative os’s gaining market share on the desktop.
..what hardware. The thin client? The DRM PC?
I know something like this is happening for years as of now: leasing. A person leases a computer (PC) with software, and after 3 years he/she can buy the thing for a small price. It’s a project for poor people, but i’ve calculated that in the end they still pay almost the full price.
The obvious question people will ask is: what is in it for me?
I’m wondering wether this also means JDS will be relying on the SunOS kernel and wether this means SunOS/Solaris will still be GPLed. Maybe if the end solution from SUN is good enough, they do not need such control as-is.
if hardware can be free why not make everything free?
A new form of communism, y’know, like one developed within the last 10 years, not those tired old systems based on anything but freedom, might be possible if…
if we used technology to automate the work nobody wants to do.
if we worked together, using technology to help everyone do the jobs they choose to do.
if we used the media system to encourage eachother to be interested in science, art, and other productive work instead of using it to make us want to buy products we don’t need.
if we gave everything away, or most everything, so that the people who know how to do the work had the right tools to do it. Or the people who knew how to design and architect this stuff had the authority to do it the right way.
if we promoted self-organization, instead of heirarchal organization, by being honest with eachother about our capabilities and did this to provide for everyone, not just the people at the top.
Why does a manager get a faster laptop than a programmer?
if we could compromise and work together, such as letting programmers have a month off to walk around and pick up trash during the summer, for their own physical and mental health, as well as societies benefit, if they wanted to do that sort of job. Manual labor is good for us, but too much of it can injure a body. If we cared about eachother’s physical and mental health we could allowe eachother to do a little physical labor and a lot of mental labor or a little mental labor and a lot of physical labor depending on what we WANT to do.
If we could only care enough about eachother to cooperate, compromise and work together, I believe anything is possible.
I mean, just look at the technologies we’ve made in the last 5 years. How can anything NOT be possible?
believe this is *software* which will be free in a few years …
hold on, it’s *already* free 🙂
Schwartz and Gates have it backwards… the software will be free, not the hardware. Hardware will become more specialized, perhaps, as has been the trend over the past few years.
It is this incorrect prediction that will sink both Sun and Microsoft… they’re trying to force what they want onto what will happen, and no matter how much wishing they do they can’t change what people want.
I personally do not want free hardware in this context — I already know it sucks without even seeing it.
-Jem
i think it can go bothways, pay for hardware and upgrades of hardware and get the software free or pay for the software and get the hardware free. I think it’s possible both ways. It’s big bad huge IBM vs. everyone else. And you deffinately can’t say ibm has done more than sun for open source, well leave OSS out of this. it’s irrelevant and this site isnt for OSS
IM confused,, isnt SUN a hardware company? How will they make money without the hardware? I know they develope software to, but I distinctly remember them touting they were a hardware company.
Here’s my prediction. SUN produces computers/servers for MS. This gives MS the hardware route like Apple. MS/SUN can create a platform of their own, without the Hardware vendors.. This will cause all the remaining hardware players (IBM/HP/Toshiba/blah blah blah) into opensource software to undercut the competition, they wont have to pay to have their platform coded to. Where as MS and SUN will need to do both.. This will push MS and SUN into a niche market like Apple. Maybe? nah probably not.
How is IBM going to make money with ‘free’ software and free hardware? Sounds like a flawed theory in the open source communist world.
Microsoft will be around, but it is very hard to ‘give’ software and hardware away and make money. How much for services, too much what a rip off and a mess.
Linux like the rest want everyone to buy into the communist machine they push. If you resist they resort to name calling and complaining like a bunch of babies.
Right now OSS and Linux are being subsidized by hardware companies.
Software companies like Sun/Apple/Adobe/MS can fight back by subsidizing hardware. Once that happens, hardware guys have no more incentive to push linux because now their margins will be back on the software side. This means they don’t need their inhouse Linux coders anymore.
:How is IBM going to make money with ‘free’ software and free hardware? Sounds like a flawed theory in the open source communist world. ”
buddy. SUN and MS are saying that h/w will be free. why dont you call them communistic instead of linux. have you got any clues about what free software actually means and are you trying to say that people who contribute are communists. if so Microsoft, IBM, Novell, Sun, HP, CA, Apple and everybody else is communistic too
Microsoft –http://sourceforge.net/projects/wix/
SUN – gnome and open office
Novell – ximian,suse linux
HP – linux drivers and preinstalled systems
IBM – kernel development and stuff
CA- linux kgem and ingris project
Apple – darwin and stuff
Okay i’ve been thinking for a while and i think SUN should have done this years ago (with free i refer to beer):
1) Provide an end solution or companies including server(s) and (thin) clients.
2) Provide support contracts.
3) Provide the _clients_ for free, but not the server nor the support. The _clients_ are therefore extremely mass produced which lowers costs while support contracts and servers are also necessary for which have to be paid. Meanwhile more of the latter are sold as well, more are being produced, thus more profit. The only question which remains here to me is wether such is profitable given the company produces hardware which costs money while they give it away.
4) Market the free ride.
Also what SUN and Microsoft have in common is the similarities between .NET and Java which both allow something like the above model.
Personally, i rather pay for something which has a non-zero marginal cost, but i’m also not the person who’s gonna buy that total solution from ie. Sun.
It makes perfect sense as a competitor against FLOSS. At one side you pay for the hardware, with the hardware company paying software people while on the other hand hand you pay for the software, with the software company paying hardware people. If one can combine the good of 2, _both_ will be damaged because of that, not only 1 as SW puts it.
“How is IBM going to make money with ‘free’ software and free hardware?”
(First of all this hasn’t been realized yet, and second since that’s not only IBM’s market, and third we’ve yet to see which hardware at what cost for who with which functionality it could just as well be “shareware hardware” or “cheap hardware” or “part of an end solution”)
Because IBM provides end solutions with support contracts for clueless people, just like SUN and HP does. One pays for the whole end solution which includes some free (beer) goodies. It is about quality, easyiness, and other things businesses care for. They’d like to pay for that too.
IBM is mostly such a support / end solution company, not much of a hardware or software company whereas SUN is much more dependant on software and hardware and also much more smaller — currently.
What the writer describes will never happen. It’s like a cell phone. When you get it, there’s always a better/smaller looking cell phone. So if I sign up for a 3 year online software service with a 3.0 GHz machine…within 12 months that machine will be obsolete.
hardware going to be free?? please…
Televisions have been around for ~40 years, radios longer, telephones even longer. Are any of them free yet?
Physical goods always have a cost associated with them:
1) cost to manufacture the physical goods
2) cost of the intellectual property associated with the goods
Software also has a cost:
The cost of the intellectual proprety
If the cost of the intellectual property in an operating system is trending towards $0, what do you think will be free in 5 years?
”
If the cost of the intellectual property in an operating system is trending towards $0, what do you think will be free in 5 years?”
1) its might not be happening on all operating systems
2) dont use a broad term like intellectual property. copyright , gpl’ed patents and trademarks are there in Free software too. so what you are telling is false
All of this [so called] free software is costing IBM MILLIONS of dollars defending itself against a lawsuit. So how is it free software, are the lawyers working for free? I hardly dought it, I would say they are earning around $500 an hour and then some. Another flawed linux theory ‘out the window’ so to speak.
The idea something is free is totally flawed, disfunctional and just stupid.
The next time I hear linux is free, find out what Redhat, IBM, and the rest of the companies being sued are paying for the ‘free’ lawyers fees…
The money they have spent on lawyers so far would be enough to pay of the national debt.
I’ll never lease a computer: software or hardware. It’s mine goddammit!
IBM: $2 billion in 2003 Linux revenue (and growing)
HP: $2.5 billion in 2003 Linux revenue (and growing)
Sun: $1.3 billion in 2003 UNIX revenue (and declining)
Enjoy.
How is IBM going to make money with ‘free’ software and free hardware? Sounds like a flawed theory in the open source communist world.
Well, that’s true only if you accept the premise that people will rather pay for a subscription to software rather than pay to own hardware and get their software for free or cheap (either through bundling, free software or piracy). This is a pretty big paradigm shift to impose on a market.
Personally, I’ve yet to be convinced that such a shift will – or even can – happen. To me, this is but another example of the new, schizophrenic Sun who can’t decide if it likes or loathes Linux and open source.
BTW, using the words “open source communist world” immediately marks you as a troll. Open source is neither left or right of the political spectrum. It definitely is more libertarian than authoritarian, which contradicts the “communist” label (I assume you mean “communist” to refer to the authoritarian nature of the old U.S.S.R, China, etc.). However this is irrelevant as discussing communism vs. capitalism (and, by extension, international politics) is rather discouraged by moderators. May I suggest you refrain from trolling in such manner?
Microsoft will be around, but it is very hard to ‘give’ software and hardware away and make money.
That’s why it makes better sense to sell the hardware and use free software.
How much for services, too much what a rip off and a mess.
Depends for whom. In fact it’s a very flexible option – services can be obtained from the vendor, or a third party, or in-house staff. Don’t forget the massive amount of knowledge about open-source software that’s available directly on the Internet.
Linux like the rest want everyone to buy into the communist machine they push.
So what you’re telling us is that IBM, Novell, HP (to name but a few) are not really multinational corporations, but rather part of the International Communist Conspiracy? Wow.
If you resist they resort to name calling and complaining like a bunch of babies.
…yet you’re the one complaining and calling Linux users communists (which, since used pejoratively, is tantamount to name-calling).
IBM: Millions in lawsuits against them
Redhat: Millions in lawsuits against them
Enjoy.
Lets just step back from the reality distortion field and look at what is being proposed.
Is an all encompassing subscription model, which includes hardware, software and services. This is nothing new, rather than bundling and selling for a one off price, SUN will charge a subscription.
What will doom this to failure isn’t the idea, because quite frankly this is what business want; they want their IT working seemlessly within their business; in other words, they say, “SUN, take care of our IT” and it is simply done. Btw, if people think this idea is new, it isn’t. Businesses focus can then be moved to concerntrating on running the business rather than trying to sort out IT issues.
What will doom it to failure is SUNs inability to market their products. Their marketing sucks, who ever is the manager in charge should be fired for the enept job he has done. The inability hype and promote products is pathetic, and it is little wonder that Solaris x86 has little traction. It has NOTHING to do with Solaris and everything to do with the fact that SUN does have a manager with the balls to out-hype, out market and out promote Solaris over Linux.
He still thinks that he can sit back, smoke a doobie and hope everything just rolls along; sorry sunshine, that isn’t how the world works. You either market and hype your product, or find your business going under. DEC found that out the hard way, and look where it is now; now part of the biggest Microsoft sycophant (HP/Compaq) the world has ever known.
All of this [so called] free software is costing IBM MILLIONS of dollars defending itself against a lawsuit.
Which doesn’t matter because they’re making BILLIONS in revenue. And they’re going to win this lawsuit, something which is increasingly apparent to those who actually follow the case.
So how is it free software, are the lawyers working for free? I hardly dought it, I would say they are earning around $500 an hour and then some. Another flawed linux theory ‘out the window’ so to speak.
Do you think proprietary software companies are immune to lawsuits? You must forget that Microsoft is the most sued corporation in the IT world.
The SCO suit is a bump in the road for IBM. Linux, on the other hand, has been a second wind for the company. The only thing “out the window” here is your flawed logic.
The idea something is free is totally flawed, disfunctional and just stupid.
Wait a minute – in your first post, weren’t you subscribing to Schwartz and Gates’ notion that hardware will be free?
The money they have spent on lawyers so far would be enough to pay of the national debt.
Making such an exaggerated claim (off by a factor of about 1,000,000:1) basically reduced whatever credibility you had left to zero. Go troll somewhere else.
bfelger
IBM: $2 billion in 2003 Linux revenue (and growing)
Leonard Smith
IBM: Millions in lawsuits against them
By comparison, the U.S. National Debt (since you referred to it) is now at 7.2 trillions.
Can you at least acknowledge that a million is a thousand times less than a billion, itself a thousand times less than a trillion? Can we agree on this, at least, Leonard? Thanks.
This company just keeps on hurting itself. I swear, they come up with some new kitzchy saying or idea that is all but guaranteed to destroy them, then run with it, about once a year.
Anyone remember the Javastations? I installed 200 of them with Sun riding on my shoulders to “help out”. Two years later, nothing worked… Sun walked out the door saying “well, this install was just a pilot, a test, so it failed, big deal!”
This idea is just another Javastation. Another Ultra 5. They’ll get a few people to give it a shot, then torpedo their customer’s expectations with banal ineptitude until what they deliver is useless and obsolete… but at least it cost everyone lots of time and effort…
Take it from someone who’s been there. Sun has been the walking dead for a long time, and this little speech just rocks me back on my heels with its utter ignorance for the realities of the market.
Regarding the *real* possibility for free hardware: any ISP/telephony company that jumps on this bandwagon for real will be shipping Linux/Mozilla/<insert software here> or a cut down Windows distribution with just what the client needs to use their service. “Free Hardware”, if it happens, will be just another word for “Lease of obsolete, el-Cheapo hardware,” as it is in Canada with Sympatico’s computer bundle offering. Could be Apple too, selling Internet access with basic hardware and iTunes. But frankly, it’s been tried several times with dismal failure to date… it requires horrendously deep pockets to get into that game… cellphones are nothing compared to fully functional computers.
Ah, I do go on. Sun irks me to no end. I’m pained to admit I was once a salted believer…
Anybody here remembers the name of the company that was selling subscriptions for an internet device, and gave away the hardware for free? The hardware was actually a small computer running Linux or some BSD variant, with an 800×600 LCD screen.
Anyways, Schwartz is pathetic…
running a version of QNX…
http://www.linux-hacker.net/imod/imod.html
shows how to get Linux running on this little thing.
Sun’s Schwartz is starting to sound like SCO’s McBride:
– You all Linux users will pay us a license fee, because we own UNIX! (McBride).
– You all computer users will pay us a subscription and use our Free Sun Hardware (TM) with Disruptive Technology (TM) (Schwartz).
It’ll never happen for practical reasons. Think about it: free hardware, subscription software. Who makes the money on subscription software? Microsoft. Is Microsoft making hardware? Of course not. Most hardware is made overseas by companies who don’t like Microsoft in the first place (Sony just got through suing MS, and China, Japan, and Korea are all instituting Linux as the government OS of choice). Now tell me WHY companies who don’t like MS in the first place are going to give their hardware away for free so that Microsoft can rake in the bucks for subscription software? MS and Sun are smoking the wacky weed again. Microsoft floated a balloon on subscription Windows once before and got blown from the sky by the voice of the public. Guess they still haven’t learned a thing.
Redhat: Millions in lawsuits against them
Wrong. RedHat is the plaintiff in RH vs. SCO.
Who cares when they sew Linux when there are other alternative’s like SKYOS BEOS POS XOS YOS ZOS FREEOS with which you can you the same thing: sell the service.
There’s only one way hardware will be ‘free’, and that is if they charge through the you-know-what for software and ‘services’. Suns bit is that by doing this you also get on their upgrade wagon – their free hardware will probably only run a Sun OS.
Microsoft – the only reason they’re making those claims is that Windows is becoming a larger percentage of the total cost of a computer every day, and they have to start conditioning people that hardware prices will continue to drop but their software will not.
Simple competition though will dictate that it’s the software which trends towards an absolute value of free before hardware ever will. Open Source can have a zero cost basis – Hardware can’t, someone has to manufacture, ship, and stock it. It cannot be downloaded off of the net for nothing.
The reality is that both Sun and Microsoft want to keep their high margin businesses without facing today’s market (its not political) realities.
that software will be bought on a subscription basis, rather than as a one-time purchase that must be upgraded routinely.
Well this seems fair, not really.
Software companies like Sun/Apple/Adobe/MS can fight back by subsidizing hardware. Once that happens, hardware guys have no more incentive to push linux because now their margins will be back on the software side. This means they don’t need their inhouse Linux coders anymore.
It is far easier to subsidize software than hardware, which is why Microsoft make these comments in the first place. So Sun are going to subsidize nuilding large holes in the ground, foundries that cost several billion dollars a piece and the technical infrastructure and people to support that? Nice try.