“Apple doesn’t fudge the fact that they have to release patches…”
OK, I was just having fun at Windows expenses, do not flame too much about it, … but Apple could call it Service Packs too, IMO.
The rationale behind not using that term would imply that updates, 10.3.1 -> 10.3.2 could include features as well as updates where as a service pack implys that there are only fixes.
After installing the updates, I have found that when playing audio, the computer is alot smoother, what ever Apple have done, it is great. Btw, if you are wondering what I am listening to; Thirteen Pictures: The Charles Mingus Anthology (Disc 1)
OK! A mac, plus Charlie Mingus! That’s too much! You’re a damned elitist snob;-)
Of course ๐ Jazz and Mac’s go hand ‘n hand like hackers and Ramstein/Rob Zombie/etc ๐
Unfortunately us, when you come with a 100metre radius of a Windows PC, it is always playing some sort of mainstream trash like N-SYNC, Five or MatchBox 20, eeek. Mainstream music, can anything get any more vile?
“After installing the updates, I have found that when playing audio, the computer is alot smoother, what ever Apple have done, it is great.”
Clearly, even it’s only a security fix, OS X has to get faster, I really can’t believe, probably it’s a placebo effect: you kmow you’ve patched your system and it must absolutly be faster”. UNBELIEVABLE!!!
“After installing the updates, I have found that when playing audio, the computer is alot smoother, what ever Apple have done, it is great.”
Clearly, even it’s only a security fix, OS X has to get faster, I really can’t believe, probably it’s a placebo effect: you kmow you’ve patched your system and it must absolutly be faster”. UNBELIEVABLE!!!
It appears that you have comprehension problems because as you can see in the quotations, I said, “updates” meaning, I have installed more than one update on my computer. One can then come to the conclusion that it must involve the 10.3.2 update, Quicktime 6.5 and iTunes 4.2 updates as well.
the computer is a lot smoother, what ever Apple have done, it is great.
Looks like there are new improvements also in Mac updates. And Windows S Pack don’t always add new features, they did becuase of the Java Law agreement.
P.S. – I prefer Frank Zappa (a peculiar Jazz-Rock sound) and no, I’m not on drugs either.
Calling these updates Security Updates is also a lot more descriptive. Its actually to MS advantage to call their security updates service packs other wise Windows users would actually see that most of their updates are really security issues.
Here is my log file for updates on my MDD since installing Panther:
I haven’t time yet for the update ritual, I just wanted to pop in to say that Frank Zappa rocks! I also like Dave Brubeck. Laurie Anderson queen.
Nice to see such a relaxed forum. Wish we were on the same network to share playlists…
I also wish Apple could fragment their updates. 36MB on dialup is awful. I tried twice but I got cut off. I wish they have some sort of autorecovery (not using software update; last time I got cut off using software update my computer went mad).
hey, at least Apple has corrected some odd AppleTalk related bugs. My netatalk server was disappearing from network browser in a strange way all the time. Now it doesn’t. Cool.
On the onther hand OS X does not need security packs. It is far more secure that XP.
I do not agree. Well, I agree on the second part, but not on the first: if it has holes, it needs to be patched.
To stay off topic, I would add to the list Eddy Davis Jr., Sathima Bea Benjamin, Abdullah Ibrahim, Stรฉphane Grapelli, Carla Bley (some), and a lot, a lot of others…
I like Grapelli, particularly the early years with Django.
About service packs. What I meant is that service packs are this big sets of security fixes, while OS X needs one patch in some time. Of course if something will happen Apple should release and fix security hole.
Manik, if you really like jazz and violin try to find (difficult these days) Seifert’s “Solo Violin”. Great jazz (1974), big talent.
“the computer is a lot smoother, what ever Apple have done, it is great.”
Looks like there are new improvements also in Mac updates. And Windows S Pack don’t always add new features, they did becuase of the Java Law agreement.
Well, there is nothing stopping Microsoft from bundling SUN Microsystems J2SE implementation. IMHO, that would be a better move than Microsoft trying to get another license then form a group simply to develop their own Java.
Microsoft loves to play the victim and try to make out that they were the underdog and treated unfairly. The fact remains that they breached their contract, NOT because they added features but because they REPLACED standardised features with their own PROPRIETARY thus make their implementation NOT 100%, which they continued to claim even AFTER the changes. They broke the contract.
Also, SUN NEVER said that they couldn’t bundled their (SUN’s) Java with Windows. What is stopping Microsoft? If I was Microsoft, you’re being offered Java AT NO COST, all the maintainance done by SUN. What is the possible downside? none. Its a win win situation.
ChocolateCheeseCake, on my pc I have: Mother Joanna, Astigmatic (I doubt that you ever heard about it), Steamin’, A tribute to Jack Johnson, Miles Smiles, Kind of Blue, Bitches Brew, Sweet Rain, Bye Bye Blackbird, Empyrean Isles and Head hunters, Return to forever, Mysterious Traveler an much more. If I try to listen it on OSX coping with LDAP, LDAP on OS X is still slow. Do you know why?
I assume when you mean Bitches Brew, it is the double CD Davis Miles under the Columbia Jazz label.
Regarding LDAP, that is only a directory service, what file service are you using? SMB? NFS? AFS?
On the onther hand OS X does not need security packs. It is far more secure that XP.
OS X does need security fixes. The fact remains that Apple NEVER tries to fudge the facts. If a security issue is found, it is found. You don’t see Apple put their marketing department into overdrive trying to rebut the obvious.
When a security issue is found, Apple responds saying they’ll working on a fix; when someone other than Microsofts “partners” find a security issue, that person is dragged into the spot light as if he was some sort of evil person.
In general FreeBSD is more secure and much better server than any (XP or OS X) of the above.
I love FreeBSD both as a workstation and server, however, it would be even nicer if there were applications comparable to Dreamweaver, Freehand, 4D, Corel Draw and so forth.
I haven’t time yet for the update ritual, I just wanted to pop in to say that Frank Zappa rocks! I also like Dave Brubeck. Laurie Anderson queen.
Nice to see such a relaxed forum. Wish we were on the same network to share playlists…
I also wish Apple could fragment their updates. 36MB on dialup is awful. I tried twice but I got cut off. I wish they have some sort of autorecovery (not using software update; last time I got cut off using software update my computer went mad).
Regarding the update, yes, I know what you mean, it too me around 2 1/2 hours to download the update. The best advice with the disconnection issue is to ensure that there is only one device on the telephone line at a time. The quality of the connection drops when you share the computer with another device on the same connection using a splitter OR you have more than 4 devices hooked up on the telephone line.
Most telecom’s suggest to their customers that for maximum reliability have no more than 4 devices on the same line at any one time as each device adds to the “noise” resulting in those drop outs.
it does not matter if login is slow when users record type is mapped at all. I had problems with SAMBA too. NFS would be only possible with v4. Apple fixed it already. But for now I will let others to iron out performance issues and interoperability problems. I think that I will wait 12-18 months before next attempt.
About programs: I am lucky, no need for these: Dreamweaver, Freehand, 4D, Corel Draw.
I would rather look at work of Kandinsky, Klee or Braque than try to “paint”.
You missunderstood me: I said that OS X don’t need service packs a la MS (~100MB of security fixes), of course patches are necessary. That is still an issue: user frindly OS will have problems with security as OS X has or OS will be more difficult but more secure.
I don’t see Microsoft as a total Evil thing. Their java implementation was faster than Sun’s on Windows OS !
It’s a fact, still is. They lost the Law sute so they had to deliver and they did, they were nice people here and no one can deny it, I can now choose y default email and browser, thanks to Sun also !
I don’t like Microsoft either but that’s another story.
[i]You don’t see Apple put their marketing department into overdrive trying to rebut the obvious./i]
Come on, Apple claims to have the “faster PC on earth” and neighbourhood planets with G5, that’s “caca de vaca” (bullshit).
That’s enough Black Marketing for me (and I’m about to buy a G5 soon… thus my interest on OS X). I just wish Apple started to call the updates “Service Packs”, like in Windows NT !
_________
You can mod this down for all I care.
You better listen to “Joe’s Garage” (Frank Zappa) for 45 minutes and cool down a little). At least try to imitate Mary Lou !!
That’s just a machine soft code (Security) flaw, better still, a new Service Pack for their users !
“You don’t see Apple put their marketing department into overdrive trying to rebut the obvious.”
Come on, Apple claims to have the “faster PC on earth” and neighbourhood planets with G5, that’s “caca de vaca” (bullshit).
That’s enough Black Marketing for me (and I’m about to buy a G5 soon… thus my interest on OS X). I just wish Apple started to call the updates “Service Packs”, like in Windows NT !
1) Saying, “we have the fastest pc on earth” is no different to Cadbury saying that they have the best tasting chocolate bar on the market. It is all perception. Me? I don’t give a shit. Every PC vendor claims to have the speed crown, each claims to be “innovative” when in actual fact all they do is tweak and existing idea and add some quirky little feature.
“Windows XP Service Pack 1a (SP1a) provides the latest security and reliability updates to the Windows XP family of operating systems.”
Update vs. Service Pack? come on, I am sure there are more important things one can debate than what the terminology used to describe updates/servicepacks/patches etc.
Found it (Zbigniew Seifert Solo Violin)! $17, a site in Poland. EMI got it on its catalog too. Btw, it’s a 1976 recording (Bremen, Germany), not 1974;-). No CD reedition though!
After I updated to 10.3.2 I noticed that there seemed to be an improvement in speed and general responsiveness on my G5 1.8. Thinking that it was just a placebo effect, I went for a bit of an investigation.
I found that my VM size seemed to be somewhat smaller than normal (3.5GB v’s 5GB) straight after a reboot and also that the OS seemed to be using less CPU in general when everything was idling along. Ive done a bit of a hunt on the net since and it does seem that people who have benchmarked prior / post 10.3.2 upgrade have demonstrable improvements in performance.
Can anyone tell me why OS X seems to have such high virtual memory usage in comparision to Linux or even XP?? For example, WindowServer (i think – im at work at the moment so cant check) seems to typically use around 650MB of virtual memory on Mac. Which basically means that 512MB of RAM is really only just adequate on OS X. Id imagine adding another 1GB of RAM (since you have to add in 2xDIMMS) will improve things somewhat.
Service Packs from MS were originally a periodical rollup of hotfixes that had been released since the OS version release. Up until probably 18months – 2 years ago these were ALL bugfixes and nary a secuirty patch to be seem.
Sometimes they also put enhancements and new apps in the SPs as well, which is something I have never agreed with. Fixes and enhancements should be kept disparate IMHO.
The point releases of OS X are similar to Windows Service Packs. EG 10.2.3 is equivilent to Windows2000 SP2 (as an example). These point releases typically roll up all of the previously released bugfixes and security patches and any core OS enhancements.
As a sidenote, I would point out that I have NEVER seen a Service Pack from MS make a noticable improvement in overall performance of the OS.
they keep coming out with updates… I guess for the better.
I want to mention that the xcode 1.1 update is back online and
available as a software update.
my powerbook rocks!
Apple has made available the source tree of the corresponding version
of Darwin:
http://www.opensource.apple.com/darwinsource/10.3.2
> I want to mention that the xcode 1.1 update is back online and
> available as a software update.
From Apple Developer Connection it’s now possible to download
the whole image of the updated Panther’s Developer CD, which
contains important improvements to other tools and the updated
technical documentation.
> they keep coming out with updates… I guess for the better.
Looks like Security problems are not a Windows only problem. Why don’t they call it Service Packs too ?
Can you get an Administrator account on a Mac with one of this exploits ?
> Apple doesn’t fudge the fact that they have to release patches…
OK, I was just having fun at Windows expenses, do not flame too much about it, … but Apple could call it Service Packs too, IMO.
“Apple doesn’t fudge the fact that they have to release patches…”
OK, I was just having fun at Windows expenses, do not flame too much about it, … but Apple could call it Service Packs too, IMO.
The rationale behind not using that term would imply that updates, 10.3.1 -> 10.3.2 could include features as well as updates where as a service pack implys that there are only fixes.
After installing the updates, I have found that when playing audio, the computer is alot smoother, what ever Apple have done, it is great. Btw, if you are wondering what I am listening to; Thirteen Pictures: The Charles Mingus Anthology (Disc 1)
OK! A mac, plus Charlie Mingus! That’s too much! You’re a damned elitist snob;-)
Of course ๐ Jazz and Mac’s go hand ‘n hand like hackers and Ramstein/Rob Zombie/etc ๐
Unfortunately us, when you come with a 100metre radius of a Windows PC, it is always playing some sort of mainstream trash like N-SYNC, Five or MatchBox 20, eeek. Mainstream music, can anything get any more vile?
“After installing the updates, I have found that when playing audio, the computer is alot smoother, what ever Apple have done, it is great.”
Clearly, even it’s only a security fix, OS X has to get faster, I really can’t believe, probably it’s a placebo effect: you kmow you’ve patched your system and it must absolutly be faster”. UNBELIEVABLE!!!
“After installing the updates, I have found that when playing audio, the computer is alot smoother, what ever Apple have done, it is great.”
Clearly, even it’s only a security fix, OS X has to get faster, I really can’t believe, probably it’s a placebo effect: you kmow you’ve patched your system and it must absolutly be faster”. UNBELIEVABLE!!!
It appears that you have comprehension problems because as you can see in the quotations, I said, “updates” meaning, I have installed more than one update on my computer. One can then come to the conclusion that it must involve the 10.3.2 update, Quicktime 6.5 and iTunes 4.2 updates as well.
the computer is a lot smoother, what ever Apple have done, it is great.
Looks like there are new improvements also in Mac updates. And Windows S Pack don’t always add new features, they did becuase of the Java Law agreement.
P.S. – I prefer Frank Zappa (a peculiar Jazz-Rock sound) and no, I’m not on drugs either.
I hope Apple’s response time gets faster.
Calling these updates Security Updates is also a lot more descriptive. Its actually to MS advantage to call their security updates service packs other wise Windows users would actually see that most of their updates are really security issues.
Here is my log file for updates on my MDD since installing Panther:
2003-10-26 01:21:23 -0500: Installed “iCal” (1.5.1)
2003-10-26 01:21:50 -0500: Installed “iPhoto” (2.0)
2003-10-26 01:21:58 -0500: Installed “iTunes” (4.1)
2003-11-04 22:21:16 -0500: Installed “Security Update 2003-10-28” (1.0)
2003-11-04 22:21:37 -0500: Installed “Security Update 2003-11-04” (1.0)
2003-11-10 22:57:52 -0500: Installed “Mac OS X Update” (10.3.1)
2003-11-11 20:40:52 -0500: Installed “AirPort Software” (3.2)
2003-11-11 20:41:07 -0500: Installed “iMovie” (3.0.3)
2003-11-11 20:41:15 -0500: Installed “iPod Software” (1.3.1)
2003-11-19 23:30:49 -0500: Installed “Bluetooth Software” (1.4.1)
2003-11-19 23:30:54 -0500: Installed “Security Update 2003-11-19” (1.0)
2003-12-05 15:40:21 -0500: Installed “Security Update 2003-12-05” (1.0)
2003-12-18 01:18:24 -0500: Installed “Mac OS X Update” (10.3.2)
2003-12-18 18:52:54 -0500: Installed “Apple Remote Desktop Client” (1.2.4)
2003-12-18 18:53:10 -0500: Installed “QuickTime” (6.5)
2003-12-18 23:57:22 -0500: Installed “iTunes” (4.2)
2003-12-20 03:21:09 -0500: Installed “Security Update 2003-12-19” (1.0)
You can easily understand what each update is about. I don’t think this is as apparent in a WindowsXP SP(x).
I haven’t time yet for the update ritual, I just wanted to pop in to say that Frank Zappa rocks! I also like Dave Brubeck. Laurie Anderson queen.
Nice to see such a relaxed forum. Wish we were on the same network to share playlists…
I also wish Apple could fragment their updates. 36MB on dialup is awful. I tried twice but I got cut off. I wish they have some sort of autorecovery (not using software update; last time I got cut off using software update my computer went mad).
hey, at least Apple has corrected some odd AppleTalk related bugs. My netatalk server was disappearing from network browser in a strange way all the time. Now it doesn’t. Cool.
On the onther hand OS X does not need security packs. It is far more secure that XP.
I do not agree. Well, I agree on the second part, but not on the first: if it has holes, it needs to be patched.
To stay off topic, I would add to the list Eddy Davis Jr., Sathima Bea Benjamin, Abdullah Ibrahim, Stรฉphane Grapelli, Carla Bley (some), and a lot, a lot of others…
I like Grapelli, particularly the early years with Django.
About service packs. What I meant is that service packs are this big sets of security fixes, while OS X needs one patch in some time. Of course if something will happen Apple should release and fix security hole.
Manik, if you really like jazz and violin try to find (difficult these days) Seifert’s “Solo Violin”. Great jazz (1974), big talent.
“the computer is a lot smoother, what ever Apple have done, it is great.”
Looks like there are new improvements also in Mac updates. And Windows S Pack don’t always add new features, they did becuase of the Java Law agreement.
Well, there is nothing stopping Microsoft from bundling SUN Microsystems J2SE implementation. IMHO, that would be a better move than Microsoft trying to get another license then form a group simply to develop their own Java.
Microsoft loves to play the victim and try to make out that they were the underdog and treated unfairly. The fact remains that they breached their contract, NOT because they added features but because they REPLACED standardised features with their own PROPRIETARY thus make their implementation NOT 100%, which they continued to claim even AFTER the changes. They broke the contract.
Also, SUN NEVER said that they couldn’t bundled their (SUN’s) Java with Windows. What is stopping Microsoft? If I was Microsoft, you’re being offered Java AT NO COST, all the maintainance done by SUN. What is the possible downside? none. Its a win win situation.
ChocolateCheeseCake, on my pc I have: Mother Joanna, Astigmatic (I doubt that you ever heard about it), Steamin’, A tribute to Jack Johnson, Miles Smiles, Kind of Blue, Bitches Brew, Sweet Rain, Bye Bye Blackbird, Empyrean Isles and Head hunters, Return to forever, Mysterious Traveler an much more. If I try to listen it on OSX coping with LDAP, LDAP on OS X is still slow. Do you know why?
I assume when you mean Bitches Brew, it is the double CD Davis Miles under the Columbia Jazz label.
Regarding LDAP, that is only a directory service, what file service are you using? SMB? NFS? AFS?
On the onther hand OS X does not need security packs. It is far more secure that XP.
OS X does need security fixes. The fact remains that Apple NEVER tries to fudge the facts. If a security issue is found, it is found. You don’t see Apple put their marketing department into overdrive trying to rebut the obvious.
When a security issue is found, Apple responds saying they’ll working on a fix; when someone other than Microsofts “partners” find a security issue, that person is dragged into the spot light as if he was some sort of evil person.
In general FreeBSD is more secure and much better server than any (XP or OS X) of the above.
I love FreeBSD both as a workstation and server, however, it would be even nicer if there were applications comparable to Dreamweaver, Freehand, 4D, Corel Draw and so forth.
I haven’t time yet for the update ritual, I just wanted to pop in to say that Frank Zappa rocks! I also like Dave Brubeck. Laurie Anderson queen.
Nice to see such a relaxed forum. Wish we were on the same network to share playlists…
I also wish Apple could fragment their updates. 36MB on dialup is awful. I tried twice but I got cut off. I wish they have some sort of autorecovery (not using software update; last time I got cut off using software update my computer went mad).
Regarding the update, yes, I know what you mean, it too me around 2 1/2 hours to download the update. The best advice with the disconnection issue is to ensure that there is only one device on the telephone line at a time. The quality of the connection drops when you share the computer with another device on the same connection using a splitter OR you have more than 4 devices hooked up on the telephone line.
Most telecom’s suggest to their customers that for maximum reliability have no more than 4 devices on the same line at any one time as each device adds to the “noise” resulting in those drop outs.
it does not matter if login is slow when users record type is mapped at all. I had problems with SAMBA too. NFS would be only possible with v4. Apple fixed it already. But for now I will let others to iron out performance issues and interoperability problems. I think that I will wait 12-18 months before next attempt.
About programs: I am lucky, no need for these: Dreamweaver, Freehand, 4D, Corel Draw.
I would rather look at work of Kandinsky, Klee or Braque than try to “paint”.
You missunderstood me: I said that OS X don’t need service packs a la MS (~100MB of security fixes), of course patches are necessary. That is still an issue: user frindly OS will have problems with security as OS X has or OS will be more difficult but more secure.
ChocolateCheeseCake (IP)…
I don’t see Microsoft as a total Evil thing. Their java implementation was faster than Sun’s on Windows OS !
It’s a fact, still is. They lost the Law sute so they had to deliver and they did, they were nice people here and no one can deny it, I can now choose y default email and browser, thanks to Sun also !
I don’t like Microsoft either but that’s another story.
[i]You don’t see Apple put their marketing department into overdrive trying to rebut the obvious./i]
Come on, Apple claims to have the “faster PC on earth” and neighbourhood planets with G5, that’s “caca de vaca” (bullshit).
That’s enough Black Marketing for me (and I’m about to buy a G5 soon… thus my interest on OS X). I just wish Apple started to call the updates “Service Packs”, like in Windows NT !
_________
You can mod this down for all I care.
You better listen to “Joe’s Garage” (Frank Zappa) for 45 minutes and cool down a little). At least try to imitate Mary Lou !!
That’s just a machine soft code (Security) flaw, better still, a new Service Pack for their users !
“You don’t see Apple put their marketing department into overdrive trying to rebut the obvious.”
Come on, Apple claims to have the “faster PC on earth” and neighbourhood planets with G5, that’s “caca de vaca” (bullshit).
That’s enough Black Marketing for me (and I’m about to buy a G5 soon… thus my interest on OS X). I just wish Apple started to call the updates “Service Packs”, like in Windows NT !
1) Saying, “we have the fastest pc on earth” is no different to Cadbury saying that they have the best tasting chocolate bar on the market. It is all perception. Me? I don’t give a shit. Every PC vendor claims to have the speed crown, each claims to be “innovative” when in actual fact all they do is tweak and existing idea and add some quirky little feature.
2) http://www.apple.com/macosx
” Mac OS X 10.3.1 Update delivers enhanced functionality, improved reliability and the latest security updates.”
How is that different to:
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/pro/downloads/default.asp
“Windows XP Service Pack 1a (SP1a) provides the latest security and reliability updates to the Windows XP family of operating systems.”
Update vs. Service Pack? come on, I am sure there are more important things one can debate than what the terminology used to describe updates/servicepacks/patches etc.
Found it (Zbigniew Seifert Solo Violin)! $17, a site in Poland. EMI got it on its catalog too. Btw, it’s a 1976 recording (Bremen, Germany), not 1974;-). No CD reedition though!
I am lucky, I have it on CD (got it from my friend from Poland) CD released in 1998, but recorded in May 1976 ( my mistake). You can get it here:
http://www.polishjazz.com/cd/cd_soloviolin.htm
They also have Komeda (for those interested: check out music for Rosemary’s Baby, and Astigmatic)
After I updated to 10.3.2 I noticed that there seemed to be an improvement in speed and general responsiveness on my G5 1.8. Thinking that it was just a placebo effect, I went for a bit of an investigation.
I found that my VM size seemed to be somewhat smaller than normal (3.5GB v’s 5GB) straight after a reboot and also that the OS seemed to be using less CPU in general when everything was idling along. Ive done a bit of a hunt on the net since and it does seem that people who have benchmarked prior / post 10.3.2 upgrade have demonstrable improvements in performance.
Can anyone tell me why OS X seems to have such high virtual memory usage in comparision to Linux or even XP?? For example, WindowServer (i think – im at work at the moment so cant check) seems to typically use around 650MB of virtual memory on Mac. Which basically means that 512MB of RAM is really only just adequate on OS X. Id imagine adding another 1GB of RAM (since you have to add in 2xDIMMS) will improve things somewhat.
Service Packs from MS were originally a periodical rollup of hotfixes that had been released since the OS version release. Up until probably 18months – 2 years ago these were ALL bugfixes and nary a secuirty patch to be seem.
Sometimes they also put enhancements and new apps in the SPs as well, which is something I have never agreed with. Fixes and enhancements should be kept disparate IMHO.
The point releases of OS X are similar to Windows Service Packs. EG 10.2.3 is equivilent to Windows2000 SP2 (as an example). These point releases typically roll up all of the previously released bugfixes and security patches and any core OS enhancements.
As a sidenote, I would point out that I have NEVER seen a Service Pack from MS make a noticable improvement in overall performance of the OS.