Still in its early stages, Longhorn represents Microsoft’s best assessment of how computing will evolve. And although the operating system won’t be ready until 2005 at the earliest, Microsoft is already hard at work trying to get outside programmers to write software that will work with it. At the same time, Microsoft moves to address user concerns with new products and strategies due over the coming year.
Microsoft: Tech Future Lies in Longhorn
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Eugenia Loli
Ex-programmer, ex-editor in chief at OSNews.com, now a visual artist/filmmaker.
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Microsoft is already hard at work trying to get outside programmers to write software that will work with it.
At least in Northern Europe there is a tremendous movement going on to adopt Linux on all levels, and SW developers are almost generally required to have a good knowledge of Linux if they think they can get employed. I doubt MS can hold on the SW developers like they have in the past, so many odds are against them. This is a situation they have not been in the past, and they have not come up with any new medicine to fix it.
I doubt MS can hold on the SW developers like they have in the past, so many odds are against them
Linux needs to come up with some better developer tools. Maybe Kdevelop or Eclipse with it’s c/c++ support can be up to the task. It’s time to get out of the 70’s editing paradigms that are Emacs and Vim.
Ha Ha Ha. Have you ever tried the difference between proramming with Microsoft and a Unix system. Microsoft stuff looks quite good at first but when you get in deepere it just does not have the maturity that other systems do. Give me Unix any day even if I have to hand code my GUI at least it dose what you want it to.
This rant was bought about by a recent fight with Access.
Linux has a much lower barrier of entry. Sure there are high end products you pay for but most basic programming costs nothing and it is fully functional jus not as easy to use.
If you want to develop with 1970’s style technology then go for it. And what mature systems are you talking about? It’s certainly not linux. If you think being a command-line junkie somehow makes you elite then there are professionals that can help you with your problems.
moreover, Microsoft will be exposed for who they truly are — a bunch of thieving spying thugs, nothing more.
Geez man, did you forget your prozac today? Microsoft is just a company selling a product. If you don’t like their product then don’t buy it.
Perhaps you don’t know Microsoft as well as I do.
Having seen them steal IP from companies, having read the court documents of what Microsoft has done to many small software companies, I have a perspective on the company that most people don’t. They are not good people.
And vis-a-vis where they got their IP in Longhorn… all will unfold in time.
I don’t make these statements out of anger or hate. They are objective summarizations of what really lies at the core of Microsoft. They are not innovators but spies and thieves, growing fat by taking the IP of other companies and then using it against them. Throughout Microsoft’s history they have taken their ideas from others. There is next to nothing that they have “innovated”.
Not to mention that they have TWO illegal monopolies with more on the way. With this level of power — and its corresponding level of corruption — they are indeed thugs in the marketplace.
Go out and ask in industry of the people who have worked closely with Microsoft… and I have complete confidence you will come to the same conclusions I have.
It’s the way of the world. Do you think that those companies that were hurt by Microsoft weren’t probably doing the same to smaller companies? Do you think that all other companies in the world are so morally superior to Microsoft that they wouldn’t do the same in Microsoft’s position?
I’m not supporting those kinds of business practice, but to paint Microsoft a different colour to all other companies is just wrong.
I look forward to seeing what Microsoft has to offer in the future as they have the power and position to produce a remarkable OS. I tried Linux for a long time as an alternative to Windows, but it never had the apps I needed. I tried BeOS, but that died
. I thought of moving to Apple, but that required too much money. But since Microsoft brought out XP I have never looked back, Longhorn is looking like Microsoft are continuing to move in the right direction.
To be honest I’d rather have Microsoft in control than the ‘Free Software’ community – at least Microsoft has a direction.
I have worked using Visual Studio.NET, Eclipse and using just using VIM with scripts and Ant to do java stuff. And first, both Emacs (using JDE) and VIM (using scripts) can do most what IDE’s can if not more, excluding advanced refactoring at the momement though that can be implmented. So they are essential IDEs they too. Neither are really satisfying (nor are the programming languages we use). But see Jeff Raskin’s interesting take on modern IDEs:
http://www.acmqueue.com/modules.php?name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=22
You seem to think that doing something morally wrong once justifies it being done wrong again… and again and again. Or that if someone else commits a crime it justifies another person to commit the same crime.
Using your logic, as long as I am bigger and stronger than you are, I can do what I want to you without any regard for laws or consequences. I could come to your house, loot through it, take what I want, and then kick you in the head on the way out. And because I am so big and strong, you can do nothing about it. And if I ever hear of you having something I want, I can just come over to your house and do it again. And your neighbor, having seen me come over and kick you in the head, now thinks it’s okay so tomorrow when you get home from work, he is going to kick you in the head and take your wallet. It’s okay because I did it and nothing happened to me.
What you are describing is NOT the Rule of Law, the foundation of western civilization. You are talking about the rule of kings, the dark times that are the rule of power and avarice. These are not times that support a middle class. They are not times of enlightenment. These are not times to be wished for.
Microsoft has crushed every competitor that has come their way — using their illegal monopoly strength. BeOS never had a chance. Even Linux hardly has a chance when Microsoft is stealing all the Linux IP before it makes it way into Linux.
Linux has to be open source, has to be free because Linux is competing with an illegal monopoly. You cannot beat Microsoft on price as they will simply use their $54+ billion dollar war chest to price you out of existence. This is why Linux has to free to have a chance.
And Linux has to be open source because it is the ONLY way to engender trust. You are completely at Microsoft’s mercy when it comes to using their products. You think all those security holes in Windows/IE/Outlook/etc are just there because of bugs? These are actually backdoors put there by Microsoft so they can download any file off your computer and then erase all trace of it. Or they can corrupt or delete any file on your computer. And you know there is no undelete for Windows NT / NTFS.
Ultimately many people have never experienced life outside of the Microsoft monopoly. It feels funny, different. It is the feeling of freedom. CHOICE. You actually have a choice of what to put on your machine, what apps to use. The Microsoft world offers very little choice.
If you look at how well the open source world is doing — in spite of Microsoft’s brutal opposition — they are doing very well.
Just as thinking how life would be without a king was a tough thing to imagine in early America, thinking what life would be like without Microsoft is strange for many people. Yet it is the first step towards a better world that offers opportunity to many, not just the few at the top.
Give Linux/Open Source another few years and see where how things look. Microsoft will have put in place their DRM lockdown by then and you can ask yourself how you feel with every scrap of information on your computer controlled by Microsoft’s iron fist. You won’t even have the ability to see what your computer is doing.
To each his own. I trust in people, trust in open systems, trust that given a free and open market that it will eventually produce many good solutions. The sooner Microsoft’s monopoly starts weakening, the faster the open market will produce good solutions. I am looking forward to the day where I have a broad choice of information tools at my disposal, not just what Microsoft decides I should have.
And I look forward to the day when I don’t have to upgrade my hardware every year to keep up to speed with Microsoft’s bloatware. And I welcome the day when I no longer have to pay the Microsoft tax just to have a good Office suite.
You can tell. I am looking forward to getting out of the Microsoft Matrix. It is time for change and time for people to have a choice again.
http://www.rokulabs.com/
There is no way on Earth Microsoft would ever allow the creation of an open content device. Not even to display stuff on your own TV. Microsoft’s vision is that everything will have massive DRM on it.
This is just one small example of why I am in favor of open source and against Microsoft’s illegal domination of the computer industry.
“I doubt MS can hold on the SW developers like they have in the past, so many odds are against them”
Linux needs to come up with some better developer tools. Maybe Kdevelop or Eclipse with it’s c/c++ support can be up to the task. It’s time to get out of the 70’s editing paradigms that are Emacs and Vim.
http://www.borland.com/cbuilderx/
http://www.borland.com/kylix/
So, whats your point? seems like there are decent tools out there. btw, most C++ coders still code their GUIs by hand. It was just recently when one could create forms and asign code like one would on VB.
Even Linux hardly has a chance when Microsoft is stealing all the Linux IP before it makes it way into Linux.
I’m most definitely pro-Linux, GNU and other Free Software, and not a fan of Microsoft, and agree with many of your points, but what the hell do you mean by that? What is this mysterious “Linux IP” stolen by Microsoft before it makes it way into Linux?
Well I can’t belive anything else, than there are many tech future lies in longhorn.
When did MS ever spoke the truth? *g*
…”If you want to develop with 1970’s style technology then go for it. And what mature systems are you talking about? It’s certainly not linux. If you think being a command-line junkie somehow makes you elite then there are professionals that can help you with your problems.”…
What do you think Microsoft’s NT is based on?.. 1970s technology from DEC’s VMS operating system, which was developed in the ’70s. There isn’t any OS that doesn’t have some kinship to an ancestor back in the day.
NO business models have yet to be shown from Linux. I’m all for it, but there is no current model.
I wish the “northern Europeans” luck – you’ll need it. The fact is that you must charge for “services” (thanks to the FSF) and the profitability model for this has never been shown. Even the companies that _are_ making money for services are only doing so thanks to their large installed base (IBM, HP). Unfortunately even KDE may now be in trouble since Novell has purchased SUSE.
Prediction – you’re soon to see “versions” of supported Linux with the other left out in the cold. Until IBM or some others create the “soup to nuts” offering with Linux you will not see the dimunition of MS – there is just too much to offer from them. Novell/SUSE may do it, but it will not be “free” as in “beer”. If anybody makes money out of the software it will cost as much as .NET/Longhorn – make no mistake about that.
Been playing around with VS.NET 2003 and like it for 3 reasons:
1. If I miss putting ina semi-colon, forget a brace on a block statement, or get the syntax of a statement wrong, it shows up visually, like mis-spelling something in a word processor.
2. Intellisense – need I say more?
3. I like how the different windows (resource view, properties window, etc) stay out of my way until I need them.
4. I’d rather have my teeth drilled than create GUIs manually. Yes, I know my parents had to walk butt-naked to school in the snow when they were my age, but luckily, I don’t have to
Aki: At least in Northern Europe there is a tremendous movement going on to adopt Linux on all levels, and SW developers are almost generally required to have a good knowledge of Linux if they think they can get employed. I doubt MS can hold on the SW developers like they have in the past, so many odds are against them.
It is unlikely that SW developers would leave Microsoft in drooves, making Longhorn a utter failure. First of all, unless by some miracle, Windows has a much larger desktop market than Linux would ever have in the near future. What’s the point of ignoring Longhorn and developing for Linux? The last I check, all software companies want to make money.
Plus, developing for Longhorn should be easy. In fact, they can already release .NET applications now, and they would still work on XP and 2000. And since such a transition is relatively easy, compared with a transition to Linux, there’s little commercial reason why *not* to port to Longhorn. But don’t expect much Longhorn-only applications.
So, it is also unlikely that software developers would develop new Longhorn-only apps, taking advantage of Longhorn’s features (mainly, WinFS, Avalon, etc.) Expect that in a few years after Longhorn is released.
Roy Batt: Linux needs to come up with some better developer tools. Maybe Kdevelop or Eclipse with it’s c/c++ support can be up to the task. It’s time to get out of the 70’s editing paradigms that are Emacs and Vim.
Hmmm? Mac OS X has very good development software, IDEs and such. Don’t see much Mac OS X apps though.
Goldstein: Starting with the fact that they stole much of the IP in Longhorn.
Wow, wow! An insider! Or a crazed anti-Microsoft guy with limited knowledge on IP.
Goldstein: There is a reason Microsoft is behind all the crazy IP laws, SCO’s mad attacks, and making the world move to DRM as quickly as possible.
Look, if Microsoft don’t adopt DRM, whose main use is with music and video, someone else would, and again, Microsoft would be the second player in the market. Geez. As for SCO mad attacks, any proof that Microsoft is behind it, besides the fact that they both licenses around the same time period?
Goldstein: Microsoft realizes that if they do not achieve total customer lock-in in the next fews years, their game is over. The world will be able to stop paying the Microsoft tax.
Tax isn’t something voluntary. Using Microsoft products is voluntary. I can move to Linux, StarOffice, GIMP, etc. and stop paying Microsoft “tax”. But I would not be as close to as productive as I am today. Thus the reason why I pay this “tax”.
Goldstein: Having seen them steal IP from companies, having read the court documents of what Microsoft has done to many small software companies, I have a perspective on the company that most people don’t.
I have read the court documents. I cam out thinking that those small companies did indeed had a chance to survive if they didn’t skip all those marketing classes back in college. And wonders – Microsoft was once a small company, against a huge corporation, IBM. Who won?
As for IP stealing, Microsoft is a big corporation, with many programmers. If the executive were to inspect every line of code just to check for stolen code from their partners and companies they are dealing with, there wouldn’t be much need for programmers in the first place.
This’ the case for every big company, especially one dealing with services.
Goldstein: Not to mention that they have TWO illegal monopolies with more on the way. With this level of power — and its corresponding level of corruption — they are indeed thugs in the marketplace.
Gee, the courts said that Microsoft illegally maintained one monopoly with Windows, and suddenly they have two illegal monopolies? Wow.
Goldstein: Using your logic, as long as I am bigger and stronger than you are, I can do what I want to you without any regard for laws or consequences. I could come to your house, loot through it, take what I want, and then kick you in the head on the way out. And because I am so big and strong, you can do nothing about it.
I must have missed the CNN headlines stating that Microsoft looted and robbed Netscape and Be Inc., bashing them into pulp. Besides, if McDonalds were to open a franchise next to an old diner, and the old diner goes bankrupt because people prefer McDonalds, did McDonalds “loot through the old diner, take what they wanted, and then kick the diner’s owners in the head on the way out”? Nope? I guessed so too.
Goldstein: You cannot beat Microsoft on price as they will simply use their $54+ billion dollar war chest to price you out of existence.
But I thought Microsoft was marking up the price? What? They weren’t? Ohhh….
(BTW, it is possible for Apple to bring down the priced for Mac-based computers, the problem is they want to maintain their high-market niche which frankly makes more money).
Goldstein: Microsoft will have put in place their DRM lockdown by then and you can ask yourself how you feel with every scrap of information on your computer controlled by Microsoft’s iron fist.
Really? Is there any proof that DRM would control every scrap of your stuff? DRM means “digital rights management”. If you want your document read by yourself and only yourself, DRM allows that. If you want to distribute it only to paying customers, DRM allows that. If you want to share in on [insert favourite P2P client] without any restrictions, so what> Don’t use DRM.
Your logic astounds me.
Goldstein: You can tell. I am looking forward to getting out of the Microsoft Matrix. It is time for change and time for people to have a choice again.
I used Linux for 2 1/2 years, for an entire year from that period I’d used it full-time. If typing in Opera to reply you in between replying emails in Thunderbird, chatting on XChat and ICQ, and preparing an article on Word is some kind of Matrix – so be it. It is sure much better (and loads faster) than the “real world”.
And BTW, I still use Linux, when I have time, to test out a CMS/weblog app I’m building using Python with MySQL. Does the Matrix allows its “citizens” to enter and leave as they please?
JuggerNaut: What do you think Microsoft’s NT is based on?.. 1970s technology from DEC’s VMS operating system, which was developed in the ’70s. There isn’t any OS that doesn’t have some kinship to an ancestor back in the day.
Actually, direct ancestry traces back to OS/2. NT 3.5 was highly influence by VMS, and the OS developed in Israel was in many ways very different from both OS/2 and VMS. And what’s really wrong with copying from a good concept?
Announymous: I wish the “northern Europeans” luck – you’ll need it. The fact is that you must charge for “services” (thanks to the FSF) and the profitability model for this has never been shown.
With astoundingly high taxes, large state-owned enterprises, huge governmental control over the commercial sector – I doubt they mind the lack of a viable business model.
Darius: 1. If I miss putting ina semi-colon, forget a brace on a block statement, or get the syntax of a statement wrong, it shows up visually, like mis-spelling something in a word processor.
Uhm, even in Kate it is like that. Although not marked as a spelling mistake.
//Just as thinking how life would be without a king was a tough thing to imagine in early America, thinking what life would be like without Microsoft is strange for many people. //
You’re actually comparing the socio-economic ramifications of the Revolutionary War with Microsoft’s software business?
Can we reach just a bit further to make a point?
Sheesh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Microsoft has been a small company against IBM? I thought they had been a small company with very friendly relations with IBM, then a big company with more or less bad relations with IBM!
> It is unlikely that SW developers would leave Microsoft in drooves, making Longhorn a utter failure. First of all, unless by some miracle, Windows has a much larger desktop market than Linux would ever have in the near future. What’s the point of ignoring Longhorn and developing for Linux? The last I check, all software companies want to make money.
Make software for where the users are. Most users use Windows, so developers will make software for Windows.
> So, it is also unlikely that software developers would develop new Longhorn-only apps, taking advantage of Longhorn’s features (mainly, WinFS, Avalon, etc.) Expect that in a few years after Longhorn is released.
This is why there is so much hype right now for Longhorn. It is to get developers on board early. Microsoft wants launch apps for Longhorn, they hype this early provides marketing for the product and education for the developers so they can get to the new stuff early and be ready when it is released. I expect to see a bunch of stuff at launch time, and more as time goes on.
> Hmmm? Mac OS X has very good development software, IDEs and such. Don’t see much Mac OS X apps though.
Few OSX apps because few OSX users. Again, developers will flock to where the users are. This is where the money is made.
> Look, if Microsoft don’t adopt DRM, whose main use is with music and video, someone else would, and again, Microsoft would be the second player in the market. Geez. As for SCO mad attacks, any proof that Microsoft is behind it, besides the fact that they both licenses around the same time period?
DRM is important in needs to be there as long as content can be created DRM free. If the content-creator has the choice of DRM or no DRM, then all is good. Linux looks to be doing the same thing, giving the user choice to use it or not.
> Tax isn’t something voluntary. Using Microsoft products is voluntary. I can move to Linux, StarOffice, GIMP, etc. and stop paying Microsoft “tax”. But I would not be as close to as productive as I am today. Thus the reason why I pay this “tax”.
Well put. The tax is worth while to pay if you become less productinve using the competing products. Microsoft knows this. They may lessen the ‘tax’ if competitors become more competitive, or at least re-think it.
> I have read the court documents. I cam out thinking that those small companies did indeed had a chance to survive if they didn’t skip all those marketing classes back in college. And wonders – Microsoft was once a small company, against a huge corporation, IBM. Who won?
Many Linux people do not realize the importance of marketing.
> (BTW, it is possible for Apple to bring down the priced for Mac-based computers, the problem is they want to maintain their high-market niche which frankly makes more money).
Thus is the problem with Apple. Their problems are their own fault.
> Really? Is there any proof that DRM would control every scrap of your stuff? DRM means “digital rights management”. If you want your document read by yourself and only yourself, DRM allows that. If you want to distribute it only to paying customers, DRM allows that. If you want to share in on [insert favourite P2P client] without any restrictions, so what> Don’t use DRM.
Well put. DRM is a choice. If you make content and want it protected, you now have a choice to do so. If you rip MP3’s, and what to put it onto IRC for all to see, then all the power to you, turn it off.
> I used Linux for 2 1/2 years, for an entire year from that period I’d used it full-time. If typing in Opera to reply you in between replying emails in Thunderbird, chatting on XChat and ICQ, and preparing an article on Word is some kind of Matrix – so be it. It is sure much better (and loads faster) than the “real world”.
Well put. Choice exists. It is just that often, the best choice is Microsoft.
>> I hope everybody realises the m$ .NET ‘innovation’ was simply bought from a University student who wrote a thesis on multiple language compilation atop of a VM (after trying to start a small business using this technology he developed).
I still don’t realize why everybody expects Microsoft to innovate, it really shows their lack of understanding of corp. economics and capitalism. Corps finance University where this is less of a risk in R&D and sometimes that money pays off and sometimes it doesn’t. But either way why not hand R&D over to the Universities, because that is what they are good at. And why not let the corps do the marketings for it. It’s just like the Xerox/Palo Alto or the Lucent/Bell Labs. They are combinations of business and research. No body expects Bell Labs to try and sell their technology that is what Lucent was there for.
Also if you think the Linux communitty is doing all the innovation with out the help of Universities you really have something comming to you. Most if not all of the features that are in the Linux kernel have come from research done at the unversity level. Also didn’t Linus start the Linux Kernel as a project in this school?
I just wish you would stop saying Microsoft doesn’t innovate it really shows that all that you are doing is being a record player for what you have heard from other places.
“Microsoft: Tech Future Lies in Longhorn” NO SHIT!
If someone develops SW for FUN, as a volunteer, to contribute?
That should be FREE.
If someone develops SW to live????????
Very well said. I couldn’t agree more.
John
…”Actually, direct ancestry traces back to OS/2. NT 3.5 was highly influence by VMS, and the OS developed in Israel was in many ways very different from both OS/2 and VMS. And what’s really wrong with copying from a good concept?”…
Yep… the timeline as followed:
VMS –> OS/2 –> WinNT –> Win2k –> WinXP –> Longhorn 🙂
Certainly there is nothing wrong with building on a concept that just works. I just think it’s funny that people bring up this whole built in the ’70s tech is some sort of bad thing, all the while they’re running Windows on an CPU (x86) that also came from the ’70s. Ironic isn’t it?
Apple is three years ahead of Microsoft now and will be three years ahead in 2006 when Lopnghorn will supposedly ship. Thats because Mcirosoft focuses on riping off the customer with mediocre products while Apple makes the best product it can.
DRM up the butt. As Nixon said “Gentleman we are about to discover the exact length, width and depth of the shaft”.
The US Government is no doubt bigger than Microsoft. Bush is going to repeal the Steel tarrifs because of pressure from the EU and Japan, etc.
MS can not do whatever it wants. If entire countries decide that their developers must use OSS then they will let emotion put them at a competitive disadvantage.
Anounymous: I wish the “northern Europeans” luck – you’ll need it. The fact is that you must charge for “services” (thanks to the FSF) and the profitability model for this has never been shown.
With astoundingly high taxes, large state-owned enterprises, huge governmental control over the commercial sector – I doubt they mind the lack of a viable business model.
Hmmm.. Nokia mobile phones is from Finland and are a very successful private enterprise.
The US national debt (owed to private creditors) is about $4 trillion. No joke! And what about these countries’ balance between business and the protection and development of society? Look at how education, for example, is dealt with in the USA, private enterprise is welcomed. America is a democracy, but these businesses aren’t – any contributions to society are in their best interests, not society’s.
These “northern European” countries enjoy one of the highest standards of living in the world because they get that balance right.
Many people contribute a little. Everybody gets a lot. That is the strongest business model out there. That is what has MS upset and me happy!!!!!!!11
> Many people contribute a little. Everybody gets a lot. That is the strongest business model out there. That is what has MS upset and me happy!!!!!!!11
A couple problems there:
1.) If every contributes to the same thing, you get a product with little or no focus.
2.) Usually, people start there own instead of contributing.
.) If every contributes to the same thing, you get a product with little or no focus.
2.) Usually, people start there own instead of contributing.
Your first point: I assume you mean, “If everybody….” and many people contribute as they will and the governing body decides what is used. Do you know so little about O.S..
Your second point:
People do as they wish. Luckly many people like contributing freely.
…wake us in four years time when the first bug ridden delayed release is about to be inflicted on the world.
# Microsoft: Tech Future Lies in Longhorn – Posted on 2003-12-02 06:28:21
# Longhorn is a Chance to Set Tech Agenda – Posted on 2003-12-01 07:32:33
# WinBeta: Longhorn 64-bit Shots – Posted on 2003-11-29 20:04:26
# Bill Gates: Blazing the Longhorn Trail – Posted on 2003-11-24 16:24:32
# How Linux And The Mac Can Compete Against Windows Longhorn – Posted on 2003-11-17 19:18:53
# Preview: Windows Longhorn Build 4051 – Posted on 2003-11-14 02:50:06
# ‘Longhorn’ Pitted Against Linux 2.6 – Posted on 2003-11-04 04:05:28
# In a Nutshell: All About Longhorn – Posted on 2003-11-03 19:07:41
# Gates Gambles on Longhorn – Posted on 2003-10-28 22:55:15
# Longhorn: Hurry up and Wait – Posted on 2003-10-28 17:53:43
# Microsoft PDC News; Longhorn Details Emerge – Posted on 2003-10-28 07:24:39
# Microsoft Steers Developers to Longhorn – Posted on 2003-10-27 19:11:19
# Gates To Kick Off PDC With Longhorn Overview – Posted on 2003-10-27 06:35:50
# Longhorn 4051 Out in the Wild – Posted on 2003-10-26 07:42:53
# Longhorn pre-Beta1 to be Released to All – Posted on 2003-10-24 20:47:43
# Microsoft To Unwrap Longhorn Code – Posted on 2003-10-22 04:52:13