“Macworld Lab’s first test results are in on all of Apple’s new Power Mac G5 towers. We’ve tested all three models, and found them be clearly faster than the previous generation of Power Macs. The two single-processor models are generally as fast or faster than the top-of-the-line dual-processor 1.42GHz Power Mac G4, and the dual-processor 2GHz Power Mac G5 is clearly the reigning Mac speed king by a wide margin.” Read it at MacWorld.
MacWorld: Dual 2GHz Power Mac G5 is New Mac Speed King
About The Author
Eugenia Loli
Ex-programmer, ex-editor in chief at OSNews.com, now a visual artist/filmmaker.
Follow me on Twitter @EugeniaLoli
Duh?
Of course its faster than the old Macs.
I don’t understand MacWorld Mag sometimes…
newsflash! new computer containing the fastest two cpus availible is faster than old computers with slower processors!
🙂
i am surprised to see the 1.6 g5 beat out the dual cpu g4 really. with so much bashing of the 1.6 g5 going on, i was expecting it to perform much worse.
> i am surprised to see the 1.6 g5 beat out the dual cpu g4 really. with so much bashing of the 1.6 g5 going on, i was expecting it to perform much worse.
What are you talking about? The dual 1.4 G4 IS faster than the 1.6 G5. Check out all the tests, not just the first one (which is probably not SMP-aware)! 😮
That dual 2 Ghz sounds like a winner…wish I could afford one!
i was reading that column of “overall score” as THE overall score for all the benchmarking (like how gameguage had seperate benches, but one overall score). my bad.
I must say, I’m genuinely impressed with the new dual 2GHz G5. Performance is great (Apple doesn’t need made-up Photoshop benchmarks this time
and the price is decent. The default configuration is a bit bare-bones, though. A $3000 machine with a Radeon 9600 no monitor, no wi-fi, and no speakers is shameful. A decent set of options ($300 graphics card, $300 speakers, $700 monitor, $100 Airport Extreme) jacks the price up to $4400. Still not too bad for an dual processor 64-bit workstation, considering a comparably equiped Opteron machine is only a few hundred dollars cheaper. Apparently, they also make nice Linux machines 
The key to the G5’s success is price cuts and sustained performance. IBM needs to keep up with Intel’s constant ramping up of speed. Its got a good lead now, but that won’t mean anything if Intel is up to 5GHz P4s and IBM is still diddling around at 2GHz. The G5 architecture is good, but its pretty much impossible (both in theory and in practice) for any processor to be consistently 2.5x faster per clock on the types of apps people use everyday. Also, the price needs to come down. A $4400 machine is fine while there is still a large premium on 64-bit systems, but when the Athlon64s come out in large quantities, that price will need to come down so you can get a high-end G5 with all the amenities for $3000. It’ll still be a premium over the x86 machines, but I think Apple can live with a few hundred dollars margin, as long as they keep up their hardware quality and case engineering (the G5 case rocks).
Question:
Since IBM is only going to be making the PPC chips from now on, will they also start offering Apple computers? Just curious.
Follow up question:
If not, what are they using the PPC chips for (links would be nice)?
Thanks,
jason
worst headline spelling ever.
: ).
you can delete my posts now. mission accomplished.
: )
new machines with newer faster processors are faster than old machines?
Come on MacWorld.
d@
That’s pretty messed up. Of lesser MHz even…
“(Apple doesn’t need made-up Photoshop benchmarks this time
“
Made up benchmarks?
“The default configuration is a bit bare-bones, though. A $3000 machine with a Radeon 9600 no monitor, no wi-fi, and no speakers is shameful.”
How so, price an equivilent PC and it will cost $1,000 MORE.
“considering a comparably equiped Opteron machine is only a few hundred dollars cheaper.”
A comperably equipped G4 would be a few hundred dollars cheaper too, but then again… it (like the Opteron) wouldn’t be comperably equipped.
“The key to the G5’s success is price cuts and sustained performance.”
While price cuts are certinly possible, the fact that they’re ALREADY priced competatively shows that they don’t need to be cut dramatically to be competative… as they are allready competative.
“IBM needs to keep up with Intel’s constant ramping up of speed.”
Agreed, if only for people’s misconceptions about processor speed and actual performance.
“Its got a good lead now, but that won’t mean anything if Intel is up to 5GHz P4s and IBM is still diddling around at 2GHz.”
What makes you think that IBM will sit still? Both the Power series of processors and their derivitives have a killer road map ahead of them.
“The G5 architecture is good, but its pretty much impossible (both in theory and in practice) for any processor to be consistently 2.5x faster per clock on the types of apps people use everyday.”
We’ve long since past the stage where processors need to be 2.5x faster… as the computer is no longer the bottleneck, but instead the user. Chips like these are most useful for today’s professional power-applications or tomorrow’s cunsumer (and professional) applications.
“Also, the price needs to come down. A $4400 machine is fine while there is still a large premium on 64-bit systems, but when the Athlon64s come out in large quantities, that price will need to come down so you can get a high-end G5 with all the amenities for $3000.”
If the price of the Athlon systems are less expensive it will most likely be because you’ll get less… not necesserally because they’re price more competatively.
this is blatent lie. the real speed king is the 3.2ghz P4. it is cheaper than G5 too by huge margin, awhile back u could buy 3.2GHz 800MHZ FSB PowerEdge server from Dell for $498. that beats the $3000 G5 systems hands down
“this is blatent lie. the real speed king is the 3.2ghz P4.”
Read the article…..
Jeesh…..
And naturally you have the test-results to support this?
… therefore 3.2GHz P4 is faster than a 2.0GHz Mac
and my 9GHz phone is faster than both of them put together!!!
🙂
a 3.2 800 retails for 600+. so, i don’t think dell could do a decent poweredge for only 500. when you say ‘awhile back’ that sounds like an exaggeration (although I suppose you could argue that three days is ‘awhile’ in the computer market)
“If the price of the Athlon systems are less expensive it will most likely be because you’ll get less… not necesserally because they’re price more competatively.”
Read Anand’s benchmarks and come back to us when you have a clue. The 2ghz AthlonFX was totally smacking around the Pentium4 3.2ghz on quite a few benchmarks, and wasn’t losing the others by very much. It is one hell of a chip, to say the least. I don’t know how it compares to the G5, but then again, neither do you.
Now, will the AthlonFX run in SMP? Good question.
-Erwos
When did a DUAL processor machine ever become a “personal” computer. I would consider that a workstation
Also, a DELL dual 2.4 GHz with 512 RAM etc … same as the 2.0 G5 only costs $1916.00 – that’s over $1000 cheaper!!!
http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?c=us&cs=04&kc=6W…
“this is blatent lie. the real speed king is the 3.2ghz P4.”
Not even close.
“it is cheaper than G5 too by huge margin”
So is the eMac… when you pay less you get less. Your price comparison is a perfect example of this.
“awhile back u could buy 3.2GHz 800MHZ FSB PowerEdge server from Dell for $498. that beats the $3000 G5 systems hands down”
Pay less… get less.
“this is blatent lie. the real speed king is the 3.2ghz P4. it is cheaper than G5 too by huge margin, ”
I just want to remind you again, that Quad processor Xeon servers are availble off the shelf for $2500. I would like to see Photoshop run on that box. ( btw, I am a qualified Photoshop instructor, and dont use my B&W G3s, preferring my 1Ghz Athlon ).
“awhile back u could buy 3.2GHz 800MHZ FSB PowerEdge server from Dell for $498”
Yhank god I am not the only one who noticed that. I have two of those installed in the field, it would have been 5 or 6, but Dell cut off the orders.
“When did a DUAL processor machine ever become a “personal” computer. I would consider that a workstation”
And you would be wrong.
“Also, a DELL dual 2.4 GHz with 512 RAM etc … same as the 2.0 G5 only costs $1916.00 – that’s over $1000 cheaper!!!”
Compare it spec for spec… making sure to add in every component that the G5 has (or as close as possible) and the G5 will be as much as $1,000 less than the G5. Your Pentium’s primary advantage is configurability… not price. You can buy less and therefore pay less.
I’d say “this isn’t news, it’s ‘captain obvious to the rescue'” but considering that enough people comment I guess I can’t really say that.
pay less get less huh? well let’s see, at 17% of the total price i would expect 17% of the same computer. let’s see what u get:
17% of dual 2GHZ is a 680MHz processor. but dell gives u a 3.2GHZ processor, which is 80% of what u get with TWO G5 processors at only 17% of the cost. ADVANTAGE DELL.
17% of 512MB RAM is ~64MB RAM, but dell gives u 128MB. ADVANTAGE DELL.
17% of a 160GB serial ata hard drive is a 27GB serial ata hard drive, but dell gives u a 40GB serial ata hard drive. ADVANTAGE DELL.
apple gives you gigabit ethernet, but so does dell, at 17% of the price! ADVANTAGE DELL.
to be fair apple does give you DVD-R drive and better video card, but DVD-R drive is cheap. u can buy DVD-R drive today for $165, see http://www.slickdeals.net/category/newdeals/?daysago=50#p3430
i am not saying pay less get less isn’t true, but obviously apple is charging WAY MORE and not giving u half of what dell gives u for your money. can you sit back and honestly say that apple is charging fair and competative price, especially compared to dell? if so u need to go back to 1st grade math.
rowel: the counterargument which will now be issued is that “Dells can’t run OS X and that is the biggest advantage and worth the pricec, so haw!”. I don’t care. OS X is a clunky fuggly piece of dirt and the Dock is the worst idea ever. I first started running X11 apps in OS X, then Linux on my mac and finally asked myself what kind of crack I was smoking. Sold the pverpriced Mac, bought a sweet cheap and fast x86 and put FreeBSD on it. Heaven. Oh well, Macs are for potheads, atleast that’s what they have been advertising them for in the switcher ads.
“”When did a DUAL processor machine ever become a “personal” computer. I would consider that a workstation”
“And you would be wrong.”
I had a disagreement at a BMUG meeting a few years ago. What really constitutes a workstation? It boiled down to : Workstation is short for Unix Workstation, so that Workstation really means Runs Unix. and had the wealth of scientific tools avaible for it like RS/1, SAS, SPSS.
does the p4 also run mac os x? no?! why not?!
we’re comparing apples to bananas here.
When I said read the article, I meant it.
It means speed king of the Apple family of computers.
Get it?
the excuses of mac zealots are funny. mac zealots start by saying the g5 is priced competatively, which is obviously a lie. the very excuse first from this thread was that the price for the 3.2ghz p4 dell must be a lie because it is too good to be true. this must be what happens inside steve jobs reality distortion field… you tell yourselves that pc prices are lies because you are too used to expensive mac pricing. the next excuse is that the g5 is better and that the pc is cheaper because u get less. i showed you get much more for your money with a pc than a mac. finally we have the excuse that macs are priced expensively because they run os x and pcs don’t. well wake up and smell the coffee people, os x is a bad thing. it is less polished a os than WinXP. os x has stability problems on apple hardware. winxp has zero stability problems on my dell. the fact that winxp can run on hardware made by other people and have no stability problems but apple’s os has stability problems on their own hardware speaks VOLUMES about how much os x sucks. os x severely limits your choice of applications, especially games. people say now that macs are good for games but that is just not true, there are no good games for mac. that’s not to mention that os x is ugly and covered with prison stripes whereas luna and the upcoming longhorn screenshots are all beautiful.
Asking if IBM will only be making PPC chips from now on is like asking if a chicken will finally start operating in “egg mode”.
The PowerPC chips are descended from IBM’s Power4 processors, who are much, much more powerful. IBM is the author of the architecture.
IBM is a huge company. They have commitments to Linux, Microsoft, Intel, Apple, etc. etc. Whatever makes them richer.
I have to admit, that $500 dell was an impressive pull. 😉
But now you’re just trolling.
“Luna is beautiful”. Now COME ON! Luna is really ugly. For example:
aqua-soft.org. Make Windows look like OSX.
I dont see any “Luna for your Mac” sites.
And “stability” is VERY subjective. Maybe all you use is Paint. I don’t know.
IMO experience, OSX is more stable than XP by far, but people will differ. When you pass off an over generalization as fact, that makes you a troll.
I use Linux anyway.
Oh not this again. I’ve I hear anyone say “slightly more th an, the same as, slightly less than, or significantly less than…” I’m going postal.
Seriously, though, I speced out a comparable Opteron machine when I was talking about the comparison. It really was a few hundred dollars cheaper, mainly because Opteron motherboards and CPUs are still quite expensive (about $2000 for a dual 2GHz). If the price on the Athlon FX brings the cost of 2 processors + motherboard to about $1200 (comparable to the cost of high-end Athlon XPs plus a high-end motherboard) then the Athlon machine will be about $1000 cheaper. The stock G5 at $3000 is really bare bones. Here is the configuration:
2x2GHz processor
512MB of PC3200 DDR SDRAM
160GB SATA Hard Drive
Radeon 9600 Pro
DVD-R/CD-RW
Mouse/Keyboard
Onboard Sound
The default config doesn’t come with speakers, wi-fi, bluetooth, an office suite, or a monitor. It comes with GigE, but all high-end Athlon motherboards based on the nForce3 chipset come with GigE, USB 2.0, Firewire, SATA RAID (which the G5 doesn’t have), and very high-end integrated audio courtesy of NVIDIA’s MCP-T.
PS> If anyone mentions PCI-X, I’m going to make them read ArsTechnica non-stop for a week so they’ll learn how useless it is on a desktop machine!
I had a disagreement at a BMUG meeting a few years ago. What really constitutes a workstation? It boiled down to : Workstation is short for Unix Workstation, so that Workstation really means Runs Unix. and had the wealth of scientific tools avaible for it like RS/1, SAS, SPSS.
Workstation is not short for a “UNIX Workstation” – it means:
Most computer users considered a workstation to be any computing device that combined powerful, multiple-processors along with a professional operating system–more often than not Unix–along with lots of RAM, big hard drives, and expansion capabilities that were beyond the norm for a typical desktop machine
http://www.computeruser.com/articles/1911,1,2,1,1101,00.html
I consider a DUAL processor with gigabit NIC – BEYOND THE NORM
I don’t see any “Luna for your Mac” sites
http://homepage.mac.com/max_08/themes/macosxp.htm
there are several luna themes for os x at:
http://www.resexcellence.com/themes/index_12.shtml
obviously there are even apple zealots who think luna is way prettier than os x.
as for winxp’s stability, the only people taking pot shots at it are linux zealots, windows 2000 zealots, or other people who have not used xp regularly on good hardware. if u have any xp stability issues it will be from bad drivers or bad hardware.
since apple has 100% complete control of the hardware, there shouldn’t be any bad drivers or bad hardware right? then why do people still have problems with os x crashing?
eugenia, u have never had xp crash right? and u had os x crash right? i am tired of people calling me a troll for this when it is the honest truth: winxp is more mature, stable os than os x
i mean seriously, winxp codebase is mature over a decade and a half… os x codebase is younger than any major os out there, of course it will have stability problems until they work the bugs out. linux is much more stable because it is way older. just because it’s unix doesn’t make os x stable, apple has done a lot of weird apple voodoo to it which makes it crash.
Yeah, there are probably people who like Luna more than Aqua, hence the fact that everyone has their own preference. However, I would think that that theme for OS X has been used more as a practical joke to trick non-computer savvy friends/etc to thinking Mac can run windows natively, than for day-to-day use.
>>winxp is more mature, stable os than os x
According to you. I consider myself to be a power user. Since I bought my OS X machine, it has kernel panicked 6 times from November of last year. I think that is not excuseable, and Apple needs to do a better job, as obviously there are still bugs in OS X. However, since I started school, 3 weeks ago, the WinXP (just installed this year on all the computers in the labs) have crashed/gone unresponsive to me about 4 times. Thats 4 times in 3 weeks (of a much lesser usage/day than my mac), vs 6 times since November of last year. To me, OS X appears stabler, but both still need work, obviously.
In my opinion, a big flaw of WindowsXP, which does not happen in OS X, is the system becoming very unresponsive (but not outright crashing). This means, if you wanna continue being productive, you need to restart your system, whereas OS X I keep on until I absolutely need to restart (ie major software installs/ system updates/ etc).
Of course these anecdotes mean nothing, as you might have had different experiences than I. To each his own opinion.
I love the way people like to say WinXP is stable by rubbishing any testimonies of disagreeing experience. Only yesterday I had 4 blue screens with XP. OK, this time they are unrecoverable. Its say something about writing to teh dump, and no keyboard or mouse. You go to use the power button, or the trubo to get it going. I had actually turned off the “restart computer” in the even of a system failure because it will automatically restart itself. I have not used Apple so I can’t compare, but I agree with the poster who said if you really can’t make XP crash, then maybe you are only using Paint, actually, maybe just notepad. XP crashes, live with it.
//
if u have any xp stability issues it will be from bad drivers or bad hardware.
//
Really? Then all those patches MS releases are just for fun?
//
http://homepage.mac.com/max_08/themes/macosxp.htm
there are several luna themes for os x at:
http://www.resexcellence.com/themes/index_12.shtml
//
Big deal, a couple themes. Aqua4Windows has 2 major sites (aquaxp.com, aqua-soft.org), that have almost 10,000 members in it.
//
i mean seriously, winxp codebase is mature over a decade and a half… os x codebase is younger than any major os out there
//
Really? UNIX is younger than NT? Wow, reality distortion alright.
OSX is based mostly off of BSD and other *nixs, which are much more mature than NT.
I love the way people like to say WinXP is stable by rubbishing any testimonies of disagreeing experience. Only yesterday I had 4 blue screens with XP.
Four bluescreens in a single day is most likely indicative of some horrible underlying hardware problems.
As for OS X’s stability, I haven’t had any stability issues since the release of OS X 10.2.6. The prebinding bugs seem to have been fixed, and since then everything’s been peachy.
It’s nice having /Library/Logs/CrashReporter/ completely empty.
Why is it that the board at Virginia Tech, after comparing all available options, came to the conclusion the G5 gave them the best overall price/performance bang for the buck? I guess they should have consulted with Rowel.
What’s is really funny though is that Windoz people seemed to have stopped talking about their systems being twice as fast, and referring to the G5 as a “workstation?”
I guess Apple’s not playing fair.
I have an G4 Dual 1.25GHZ and an P4 2 GHZ. The G4 feels faster when I use Photoshop, Indesign etc. and my P4 is faster with other applications. My personal preference is OS X and I wouldn’t want to have a Luna Theme for my MAC. The fact is Apple costs money. So I made that choice to pay more money for what I believe is a better product. Windows doesn’t have iTunes, iPhoto, iMovie, iDvd and definitely doesn’t have the cool look. I think people don’t realize this.
I little bit off topic: How much do you think corporations spend on Antivirus Software and licensing fees to protect their windows computers? Think about the last Worm Blast?
That’s worth switching alone to any of the unix flavors.
speaking of lies, since when does Dell sell a 3.2 ghz intel processor for less then cost?
much less the entire system?
even NEWEGG sells just the processor for $624.
rowel…why don’t you do us all a favor, and stop with the outlandish stories and fabrications.
big e.
mcp+i, mcse, linux+, lpi
I like the hardware spec of the new mac’s, not so much the case though. However, I’d like to see how the G5’s perform against the Athlon64’s. A review at Anandtech.com reviewed an Athlon64 at 2GHz +Nforce 3 mb just wipe the floor with the P4(3.2GH@800mhz fsb+HT+DDR400) sometimes as much as 40-50% and that’s not even over clocking the chip and its only running a 32bit Windows ! That 40-50% speed diff between the Athlon and P4 are not made up because the labs at where I work have produced the same results.
Now if we could get OS-X on that A64, now that would be sweet – wait BeOS would be even nicer !
: o )>
since you are obviously BLIND here is the link again:
http://www.slickdeals.net/?fromMonth=9&fromDay=4&fromYear=2003&toMo…
hey big genius man here’s a clue for you: DELL DOESN’T BUY THEIR CPUS FROM NEWEGG. obviously dell can get cpus cheaper than newegg can sell them for because newegg has to mark up cpus to get a profit, plus dell gets bigger volume discount OBVIOUSLY.
how can people be this stupid. jesus.
//
rowel…why don’t you do us all a favor, and stop with the outlandish stories and fabrications.
//
Well, rowel’s a troll, but he was completly right about the $500 Dell.
He posted a link to it!!! Read the whole thread before you post.
And unlike Apple, PC makers make 1-2% profit on PCs, they make it up in quantity. Thats why they’re so cheap. Same with the super market industry.
For all the really smart people who are saying it is obvious that a new computer is faster than an old one. That is not so obivous and the article is shoing the speed of different machines doing different things. Undestand now? For all the PC weenies, ghz does not equal ghz and the Mac operating systems is years ahead of Windows. Just deal with it.
Yesh. The VaTech example is a very, very poor one. VaTech is not going out to the Apple Store and buying 1100 G5s. They’re getting a special deal from Apple (which is probably making very little profit on these machines) and are basically buying bare-bones configurations with the CPUs, RAM, and little else. Its not at all comparable to what normal people have access to.
mac zealot? ha. i don’t even own a mac.
no. i just think you are a cretin.
those dell “servers” (i use the term loosely) are pretty darn cheap…though I have yet to find one using your links that’s 3.2 ghz for under $500. but point taken. you can get a cheap dell for $500.
so i retract my statement that you are a liar.
but i still think you are a cretin….but thanks for the links.
Did anyone notice that the G4 1.42 Dual scores were better than the G5 1.8? Of the 6 tests that they ran, the Dual G4 was faster on 5, and slower on one. For most of the tests they were near identical, but the G4 was much faster on MPEG2 encoding and Cinerama.
Sounds like the Dual G4 is the best deal.
I had installed something ad it would crash the OS in the same place. I do not know if I have a hardware problem. I reinstalled XP, and everythign is working fine now. Also everythign is fine under Redhat 9 too, so I think it was more of a software problem.
has anoyone actually been to the Dell site. I am coming from there, and the price of the 2.0Ghz system is $499. To get the 3.2GHz, you will have to shell out an EXTRA $499, so someone is misleading us. I followed the links to get to the Dell store. The system is hardly top end at its $499 configuration. It comes with no OS for that price too. Only a CDROm (No DVD or CDRW), a 40GB hard drive, no monitor. So no comparison to the G5’s is in order here.
So rowel misread the information, or it was misrepresented to him. No way Dell would sell a system competitive to the G5 that cheap.
IBM and AMD are a joint-venture to produce 0.9 nanometer chips. Did you know that when you are comparing Opterons and G5 ?
http://news.com.com/2100-1006-979718.html
It is just a platform architecture difference.
If you read the link the troll gave you, you would see that the deal ended a week ago, and that its more expensive now.
People.
@Rowel
“this is blatent lie. the real speed king is the 3.2ghz P4”
The article is titled, “MacWorld: Dual 2GHz Power Mac G5 is New Mac Speed King”
The operative word here is “Mac” They didn’t compare it to the P4 so I don’t know why you are even getting so hot and bothered.
Your arguments about Macs are more expensive are boring and make me fall asleep. At least discuss the article.
The PowerEdge Server you mentioned is a dog, The 533FSB and 266DDR memory spec wise doesn’t look better than the 800MHZ FSB G5 with DDR400 memory. If you jack up the configuration to 3.06GHZ your still chocked by the 533MHZ FSB and 266DDR memory but the $500 computer now costs $1700.
Once you add Windows 2000 Server and a combo drive and a modem it goes up to $2541 and thats with no keyboard or mouse.
http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?c=us&cs=04&kc=6W…
Use this link and be sure to add the above and you will get $2541 on the next page.
You can only go up to 4GB of RAM versus 8GB of DDR400 on the G5.
I think there were better examples you could have chose from. Cheap doesn’t always get you what you want.
The G4 1.25 should perform as well as the 1.42. The G5 1.6 and 1.8GHZ systems don’t strike me as real performers. I certainly would not recommend for someone to upgrade from an MDD they just bought. If they can put duals in the 1.6 and 1.8 then thats a different story.
ok, this is just my opinion but macs have always about been style. and apple has always been about marketing. All you have to do is see it passed that. Macs have a lot longer of a release cycle so they’re not always up to speed. Thats fine by me. Id still love a powermac. Right now macs are beginning a new cycle so they are fast atm. What baffles me is when mac zealots argue that their macs are the fastest pc out there while intel/amd obviuosly passes them in performance, and i’m talking about when mac’s arent in their peak of the cycle.
Also, what’s also funny is when pc zealots actually try to argue the “mac is the fasted cheapest supah computah in da world!” argument comming from mac zealots.
anyhow, to mac zealots: wake up and enjoy the freaking mac.
to pc zealots: if you dont like the mac, then dont buy one. and dont start the stupid “macs are overpriced” crap.
@Rayiner Hashem
” Yesh. The VaTech example is a very, very poor one. VaTech is not going out to the Apple Store and buying 1100 G5s. They’re getting a special deal from Apple (which is probably making very little profit on these machines) and are basically buying bare-bones configurations with the CPUs, RAM, and little else. Its not at all comparable to what normal people have access to.”
If VT bought Dells it would not be through the Dell website either they would get a special deal and Dell would probably make a lot less money than what Apple is making. Heck at my company we have a Dell rep and we aren’t even that large of a site.
It’s not a huge surprise the the G5’s are expensive. They are in very high demand. It’s simple economics. If you can sell all you can make, you can charge more per unit.
Right now, I think the Dual 1.25 G4 is a better buy than the G5’s. In a year or so, I would bet that the entire line is dual proc at the same or lesser price. Apple needs to keep IBM happy by buying a lot of chips.
i sure hope so, cause i will be buying in about 12-18 months, and a nice dual CPU mac with either the 1.8 or 2.0 (or hey, by then IBM says 3.0) would go down nice. i can hope to spend under $2400! please make it so.
rowel …Don’t you mean dell can SELL their chips for less than newegg can BUY them for? and still make a profit!
Actually I was reading over at HardOCP, who make a hobbie of tracking such anomolies, that Dell has done this several times recently. Of course the pull the deal right away, but they probably get a REALLY, REALLY good deal from Intel..perhaps a first shot a low prices. They have recently advertized the baseline server at below average CPU cost several times–keep an eye out for the next one!
That’s mega corp buracracy and programmed price cuts at it’s finest! Of course, when people are buying your computers just to get the chip, it’s time to raise those prices a bit…
How so, price an equivilent PC and it will cost $1,000 MORE.
A comperably equipped G4 would be a few hundred dollars cheaper too, but then again… it (like the Opteron) wouldn’t be comperably equipped.
While price cuts are certinly possible, the fact that they’re ALREADY priced competatively shows that they don’t need to be cut dramatically to be competative… as they are allready competative.
I’m curious. Which particular minor configuration detail are you attaching disproportionate value to ? The 64 bit CPU ? OS X ? FW800 ? Serial ATA ? The Apple badge on the front ?
Just for the hell of it I kludged up a few quick comparisons between Dell and Apple (bear in mind I’m working with AU$ here).
A stock standard 1.6Ghz G5 costs $3,600ish.
A comparable 2.6Ghz Dell Precision 360 costs $3250ish
Differences are:
The Dell has 512MB of RAM (vs 256)
The Dell only has FW400 (vs FW800)
The Dell has a PATA hard disk (vs SATA, not that it makes any practical difference)
The Dell has a 128Mb ATI FireGL X1 (vs 64MB GeForceFX 5200)
The Mac has PCI-X slots (vs normal PCI)
Dell has 3 year warranty (vs 1 year)
Now, presumably there’s some things in the Mac package you think are worth the difference. I’m interested to hear what they are. Bearing in mind that for most people you could also substitute a Dimension 8300 and knock another $1000ish off the price tag (and get a monitor thrown in as well).
Alternatively at the high end, a Dual 2.66Ghz Precision 650 Workstation is $5,550ish and a Dual 2Ghz G5 is $6000ish.
Differences (Dell vs Mac):
Video card is 128MB QuadroFX 1000 vs 64MB Radeon 9600 Pro
(I suspect the card on the Dell is *much* better, since some of the other options knock over $1000 off the price, but I don’t keep up on video card technology)
Hard disk is 120GB PATA vs 160GB SATA
FW400 (I’m assuming) vs FW800
3 year vs 1 year warranty
Again, I’m sure there’s some stuff that’s a bit different, but I’m interested to hear what you think is on the Mac that’s making up the price differences.
Or, again, let’s look at the consumer machines:
1Ghz eMac w/Superdrive is $2500ish
2.4Ghz Celeron Dimension 2400 is $1600ish
17″ iMac is $3300ish
Dimension 4600 is $2900ish
I really want to know which features you think are in the Macs that are making up the (often significant) price differences. Particularly at the lower end, where consumers can pick up decent PCs for $400 less than the cheapest Mac.
Incidentally, your argument that Macs costs more because you get more, and PCs can be cheaper because you can leave more out is pretty weak, given the number of customers who would have no interest in or use for much of the “extras” that “come standard” with the Mac, like PCI-X, Firewire, SATA, Gig ethernet, few hard disk size options, etc. Then there’s the options you can get for PCs that you just can’t get from Apple, like 5 year warranties, SCSI RAID, professional 3D cards, etc.
Why is there always an assumption made that because of ONE factor, something is superior?
I am running an eMac (DVD/RW Version w/ 512MB RAM and MacOS 10.2.6) and I find it perfect for what I want, however, that is not to say that I won’t move to something different in the future.
If in the future (2-3years), Scribus really improves and there are some comparable applications to Studio MX available on FreeBSD, then I will move back, however, until then, I am quite happy with what I have.
The computer I chose because it provides me with the ability to run the software I want on a UNIX like platform. As I have said previous, I *COULD* run SFU, but why should I pay for UNIX functionality I would consider as a pretty basic fundamental piece of an operating systems architecture?
Clearly you need to lay off the booze, rowel.
A PowerEdge 2650 starts at 1749 USD in absolute minimum configuration. Get your facts straight. If you buy a brand new 500 USD poweredge, it is stolen.
Well, that’s my opinion.
But whenever I price a Mac vs a PC, to get the PC up to the Mac standard for what I want from a computer, the PC ends up costing the same or more (and it comes with Windows-yech!).
I also remember that when I used Windows PCs, I would lower my purchase cost by dropping features, but a few months later I’d start “upgrading” the components in order to get acceptable functionality.
I’ve never felt the need to upgrade my Macs (except to add memory, Apple usually overprices their memory).
I’m waiting for Dell to sell a consumer PC with Linux or FreeBSD – now that would be cool. But I’m keeping my Mac as my primary computer, because Mac OS X is the best general purpose operating system I have ever worked with.
Regards,
Mark
But whenever I price a Mac vs a PC, to get the PC up to the Mac standard for what I want from a computer, the PC ends up costing the same or more (and it comes with Windows-yech!).
As I asked the other poster, what features do you find missing from PCs that you need to “option in” that drive the price over that of a Mac ? I “optioned up” a few Dells earlier and they were still cheaper at comparable equipment levels (even more so at the low end).
I’ve always been faced with the opposite problem buying Macs – I am forced to pay for things I simply have no interest in or need for.
Gig ethernet ? Not going to be relevant to me for years.
Minimum 80G hard disk (or 160G if you want a high end box) ? Pointless, I have half a terabyte of redundant storage on a fileserver. More than about 20G on the local machine is simply a waste.
Firewire ? Waste of time. I have no firewire peripherals and no plans to purchase any.
Heaps of RAM ? Why would I buy it from Apple when normal dealers have it for half the price ?
Etc.
I also remember that when I used Windows PCs, I would lower my purchase cost by dropping features, but a few months later I’d start “upgrading” the components in order to get acceptable functionality.
Most people would only make this mistake once and then learn from it.
I’ve never felt the need to upgrade my Macs (except to add memory, Apple usually overprices their memory).
More likely you were constrained by the fewer (and usually more expensive) “Mac-compatible” peripherals. It’s only relatively recently hardware upgrades and peripheral choices have started becoming more Mac-friendly.
constrasutra: resexcellence had various XP themes for OS X the last time I checked.
ladies and gents. let my make a few points here.
Dual 2ghz Powermac for 3000dollars:
what u get?
64 bit processor. mac os X
3 PCI-X slots
160 GB SATA drive
AGP 8x PRO graphics
ATI 9600pro
512MB DDR400 128-bit SDRAM (expandable to 8 GB…)
4X SUPERDRIVE.
Firewire 800, 3 USB 2.0 slots, 2 USB 1.1, 2 Firewire 400 ANDDDDDD ptical S/PDIF in, optical S/PDIF out!!!
800mghz Hyperstransport interconnecting the system!
plus a whole new architecture and design of the whole G5 BOX.
what does this mean ? high performance I/O and very good structure support for future releases. 3 Ghz chips etc ….
i can reassure u that if u try to put those all into a pentium pc it will be much more expensive… PLUS some of these features are not available for pentium pcs… eg: hypertransport or 64 bit chip!!!
someone mentioned whats so great about ethernet ? well my broadband connection at 2 mbps needs this inorder to work.. dumb ass.. unless u dont want fast internet (haha)
second who wouldnt want Firewire800 ? for external hard disks and any other peripheral its the best option because with firewire 800 the external hard disk works as if its internal.
finally the OS: who wouldnt want mac os x? a VERY STABLE os with easy interface so that even a beginner can use it…and UNIX core for professionals.
and ALL this for the fastest DESKTOP computer. YES at 300 dollars IT IS A DESKPTOP COMPUTER and it can be sold at every mac store available for everyone.it comes ready installed. needs NO CONFIGURATION so that when a BEGINNER buys it he can start using it right away without any problems. and that is a PERSONAL dekstop computer:)
oh and guess what. the mac doesnt lose half of its price after 2 months…oh and it WONT need upgrading after one year !!!!
You know something’s up with articles like this are ever published.
Either that or they think their readers’ IQs are under 10.
Most poster’s IQs on OSNews ARE lower than 10. It’s not hard to NOT notice this especially when there are Mac articles/stories. It eventually resorts to six pages of dirt flinging eliminating all chances of intelligent conversations. These “drones” are usually cheap b@stards too and IMO should stick to Yahoo message boards and/or Slashdot.
“Dual 2ghz Powermac for 3000dollars:
what u get?
64 bit processor. mac os X”
Athlon64s will be out 23rd September weeks. Looking at the Anandtech benchmarks it seems as though a single Athlon64 2GHz will comparable performance to a dual 2GHz G5. The really amazing thing that this occurs using 32bit windows -the 64 bit Windows is expected to be much faster.
“3 PCI-X slots”
Who cares about PCI-X
“160 GB SATA drive”
No SATA RAID
“AGP 8x PRO graphics”
Standard on sub US$100 motherboards
“ATI 9600pro”
Low-midrange consumer GPU. No workstation level graphics cards are available for the G5
“512MB DDR400 128-bit SDRAM (expandable to 8 GB…)”
4 slots only – 2GB RAM modules aren’t available so you are limited to 4GB at present
“4X SUPERDRIVE.”
Sub $200 DVD/RW drives are readily available
“Firewire 800, 3 USB 2.0 slots, 2 USB 1.1, 2 Firewire 400 ANDDDDDD ptical S/PDIF in, optical S/PDIF out!!!”
Except for Firewire 800 all these are readily available on inexpensive x86 motherboards.
“800mghz Hyperstransport interconnecting the system!
plus a whole new architecture and design of the whole G5 BOX.”
AMD64 has an onboard bus that runs at CPU speed that is 2000 MHz or 2.5x as fast as the G5 bus.
I suspect that by Xmas 2003 the G5 will be totally outclassed by much cheaper Athlon64 machines.
drsmithy, although I’m a Mac user (but also use other OSes), you’re absolutely right about choosing a computer that suits what you want to do with it.
For many, the Mac “digital hub” iLife apps that come with a Mac are their reason to buy a Mac. Here at OS News, that may not compel many but, for home users with families, intermediate users, this is often computer heaven for them, especially as these apps become more and more integrated with each other. And really, I guess we’re talking iMacs in that regard. It sounds like, from your description, that a Mac would not be compelling to you, which is fine, of course.
But whatever the reason and with no prejudice to any other OS or platforms, the reasons can be many and varied. For many higher end users, they have fallen in love with OS X. But, others may have reason to go for XP or Linux. It just depends.
@rowel – going back to your original post, you have got to learn that, if you go into a tirade, nobody will take you seriously. They may respond and it may bring out the zealots for the other side, but you will not be taken seriously by anyone. I pretty much discount anyone who takes the approach that their OS/platform is near perfect and others are absolute crap. The whole underlying thinking in this is faulty from the start and taints everything else the person says.
As I am interested in and want to learn about as many OSes as I can. I find it very strange that people who claim to be interested in OSes would engage in this type of behavior. If one is a zealot, goes on tirades with ludicrious remarks, it is apparant that person is not interested in learning anything new. Give it some thought.
I am sure the new G5’s are fast. So what! you still have a niche machine that that runs photoshop and a handfull of video editing tools faster.Beside the fact that the new CPU design broke alot of apps not to mention there isn’t a single app which takes take full advantage of the 64-bit CPU. So how long will this speed edge last? probably for about 6 months until intel releases the next batch of P4’s. Or AMD with the new XP processors. Then in 2 years IBM will release the G6 and Mac will be faster again for 6 months and once again the mac zealots will come out of their hole to puff up their chest to say we are better.
I have yet to see a single BSOD on XP. This is running XP on multiple machines including my laptop. All my machines have one thing in common though….Intel CPU’s, Intel chipsets. I am willing to bet that the majority of the BSOD’s mentioned by posters here have been on AMD based machines or Intel CPU machines with VIA or SIS chipsets. Don’t get me worng I like AMD but the sad fact is just like PA-RISC is HP, X86 is Intel and everything else is a imitation.
I am sure the new G5’s are fast. So what! you still have a niche machine that that runs photoshop and a handfull of video editing tools faster.Beside the fact that the new CPU design broke alot of apps not to mention there isn’t a single app which takes take full advantage of the 64-bit CPU. So how long will this speed edge last? probably for about 6 months until intel releases the next batch of P4’s. Or AMD with the new XP processors. Then in 2 years IBM will release the G6 and Mac will be faster again for 6 months and once again the mac zealots will come out of their hole to puff up their chest to say we are better.
Photoshop 8 and Indesign 3 are two pieces of software which have already confirmed that they will be released by the end of this year and are being tweaked for the G5.
Regarding the speed, that certainly wasn’t a single motivating factor for buying an eMac. If the eMac didn’t exist, I would have either purchased a SUN Blade 150 or a IBM ThinkCentre PC, stripped of Windows XP and loaded FreeBSD onto it.
I have yet to see a single BSOD on XP. This is running XP on multiple machines including my laptop. All my machines have one thing in common though….Intel CPU’s, Intel chipsets. I am willing to bet that the majority of the BSOD’s mentioned by posters here have been on AMD based machines or Intel CPU machines with VIA or SIS chipsets. Don’t get me worng I like AMD but the sad fact is just like PA-RISC is HP, X86 is Intel and everything else is a imitation.
Incorrect. AMD chipsets aren’t crap, it is when we have people who insist on buying the most dirt cheap POS humanly possible then complain that they get BSOD’s. AMD branded chipsets are rock solid, it is when you have two bit companies like VIA team up with dodgy motherboard vendors when one sees problems.
As for SiS chipsets, they’re rocksolid. Although they lack many of the bells and whistles AMD/nForce fanboys like to crow about, they’re a basic chipset that gets the job done.
Also, lets us not forget that many of these cheapskates bugger off to pricewatch.com and buy the cheapest, nastiest memory humanly possible. This also plagues the Mac community as well. People buying great computers only to f*ck them up by installing sh*t quality memory and wonder why they’re constantly gettng BSOD’s and kernel panics left right and centre.
Then move onto people who complain about X or Windows XP crashing because their crap quality video card is causing grief. If you buy a crap graphics card you will get crap stability. You will either see weird behaviour, constant X crashes or worse, BSOD’s (due to drivers being in kernel space). If you spend the money, you won’t experience problems. 3DLabs and Matrox are two companies I would STRONGLY recommend to anyone wanting a stable and reliable graphics card that works with Windows and *NIX.
Why is this price thing still an issue?
For a lot of Mac users buying a Mac doesn’t break the bank for them. So what is the point of arguing price if you can’t even afford an eMac? If you can’t come up with $799 to buy an eMac what makes you think you have $799 to buy a PC?
Macs cost more, so what? It doesn’t hurt me. As far as XP on a PC I really don’t think its a selling point with all the vulnerabilities, viruses and security issues. How are all these problems an advantage?
As far as high end PCs go Alienware rigs are rare to find in the home of a PC user, even among gamers. Apple’s best selling G5 configuration is the Dual G5 and it is touted as a personal computer. Your going to find this computer in home and businesses. So pcfanboys just TALK about the high end configs but rarely do they have them in my experience.
So Mac people pay a premium for their hardware. So what. The Wintel crowd should be thanking them for this. The extra money Apple makes goes into R&D, so they can continue to release new and exciting products for the PC industry to copy a few years down the line.
drsmithy wrote:
“I’ve always been faced with the opposite problem buying Macs – I am forced to pay for things I simply have no interest in or need for.”
You’ve kind of made my case. I want the things in Macs, you don’t.
“Gig ethernet ? Not going to be relevant to me for years.”
Not really relevant to me either, but I don’t mind having it.
“Minimum 80G hard disk (or 160G if you want a high end box) ? Pointless, I have half a terabyte of redundant storage on a fileserver. More than about 20G on the local machine is simply a waste.”
If you’ve got half a terabyte of redundant storage, I’m surprised that you’re so price sensitive. When I buy I get the largest hard drive available at the time because I’ve found I never have enough local storage. If I buy a file server I’m going to look at a 2.5 terabyte XRaid solution (but I’ll wait until Apple adds a redundant RAID controller). I think the price is very competitive.
“Firewire ? Waste of time. I have no firewire peripherals and no plans to purchase any.”
Waste of time for you. I have a lot of FireWire peripherals (including a DV camera) and would not purchase a computer without FireWire.
“Heaps of RAM ? Why would I buy it from Apple when normal dealers have it for half the price?”
I agree with this. That’s why I buy RAM separately. Apple has long had a problem with overpriced RAM
“Most people would only make this mistake once and then learn from it.”
My point is that the price was not compelling when I added what I really wanted to the PC.
“More likely you were constrained by the fewer (and usually more expensive) “Mac-compatible” peripherals. It’s only relatively recently hardware upgrades and peripheral choices have started becoming more Mac-friendly.”
Actually, no. I have not been constrained — I have not needed to upgrade my Macs in order to do what I wanted. I have, of course, added peripherals I needed (which add functionality, not to enhance existing functionality) and have never had trouble finding what I wanted.
But I don’t begrudge you you’re satisfaction with what a Windows PC does for you.
Regards,
Mark
My point is that the price was not compelling when I added what I really wanted to the PC.
Yes, but as I keep asking, what *were* those things, that you had to add, that drove the PC price higher than the Mac price ?
If you’ve got half a terabyte of redundant storage, I’m surprised that you’re so price sensitive.
It’s not spending the money that bothers me, it’s spending the money on things I don’t want or need. I’d much rather add another 100G to my fileserver that I can access from *all* my machines rather than have it uselessly sitting on a single box.
I also have to agree that an XRAID is very competitively priced for its market, but I’m relating to an enthusiast setup at home, where I can make something that meets my needs just as well for 1/4 the price. I’d love to buy an XRAID, but I can buy a big case and stuff it full of hard disks for a _lot_ less.
Actually, no. I have not been constrained — I have not needed to upgrade my Macs in order to do what I wanted.
Then why have you had to upgrade your PCs ? Any PC bought in the recent past would have almost certainly come with more memory, a faster CPU and more hard disk space than a Mac costing 20% more. What is it that was missing, that you had to buy, that exceeded that price difference ? Hardware ? Software ? The G5 is the first non-laptop machine Apple has released since the original G4s that is even remotely competitive on price/performance, so you’ll have to work hard to convince me a Mac had hardware features you couldn’t add to a PC for less.
I agree with this. That’s why I buy RAM separately. Apple has long had a problem with overpriced RAM.
Indeed. The trouble is, in a lot of cases, you can’t help but pay for Apple’s overpriced RAM (or other stuff). For example, you can’t buy a 17″ iMac with no or only 128MB of RAM. You can’t buy a dual 2Ghz G5 without also paying for 512MB of RAM. Etc. It’s the same with hard disks and video cards (incidentally, has anyone else noticed Apple charges about 50% more for the exact same video card upgrade – a Radeon 9800 Pro – than Dell does ?).
But I don’t begrudge you you’re satisfaction with what a Windows PC does for you.
I own a lot of machines, not just a Windows PC. I’ve bought Macs in the past but always gotten rid of them after getting frustrated with the poor performance in relation to the cost. OS X *is* a compelling piece of software for me, but I just haven’t yet found any hardware that can run it acceptably fast (although I haven’t yet had the chance to try a new G5).
For many, the Mac “digital hub” iLife apps that come with a Mac are their reason to buy a Mac. Here at OS News, that may not compel many but, for home users with families, intermediate users, this is often computer heaven for them, especially as these apps become more and more integrated with each other. And really, I guess we’re talking iMacs in that regard. It sounds like, from your description, that a Mac would not be compelling to you, which is fine, of course.
Indeed. iLife is a good package and is why I have often recommended Macs for family members with a less technical bent.
Nevertheless, the impression I get from the people here saying the Mac is better is primarily because of the hardware, not the software bundle.
A Mac is compelling to me mainly because I like OS X a lot – although some of the Apple hardware is also very cool. Unfortunately, I’ve yet to use any Apple machine – particularly at a sane price point – that can run it at an acceptable clip (although I haven’t used a G5 yet).
As for SiS chipsets, they’re rocksolid. Although they lack many of the bells and whistles AMD/nForce fanboys like to crow about, they’re a basic chipset that gets the job done.
This is a relatively recent development. The first decent chipset SiS released was the 735 and that was only a couple of years ago (and was quite a surprise at the time to most folks). Personally I’m still a bit leery of them (not willing to attribute the 735 to more than luck).
hmmm..
first of all. at least research some things before u answer:
the dual 2 Ghz mac has 8 SLOTS for memory. times 1 GB. that GETS U 8GB of memory ? hahaha …
and here are some interesting benchmarks just to show how much important memory is for the G5..
http://www.macaddict.com/news/news_007.html
plus.. mr anonymous:
id like to see a cheap motherboard with optical spdif in.out.
and a $200- dvd-rw 4speed.
PLUS maybe could u show me WHERE I CAN GET THAT AMD64 right now??? and maybe how much would it cost me?… (hahah)
“hmmm..
first of all. at least research some things before u answer:
the dual 2 Ghz mac has 8 SLOTS for memory. times 1 GB. that GETS U 8GB of memory ? hahaha …
and here are some interesting benchmarks just to show how much important memory is for the G5..
http://www.macaddict.com/news/news_007.html
plus.. mr anonymous:
id like to see a cheap motherboard with optical spdif in.out.
and a $200- dvd-rw 4speed.
PLUS maybe could u show me WHERE I CAN GET THAT AMD64 right now??? and maybe how much would it cost me?…”
Actually I found a 4x DVD/RW for under US$100 http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.as…
$110 for an Asus motherboard which is fully featured
Asus A7N8X Socket A Motherboard!
At TigerDirect.com
on 9-12-2003.
With an array of advanced technology, the A7N8X provides a revolutionary audio/video experience. AGP Pro/8X, doubling the bandwidth of AGP 4X, provides cutting-edge graphics performance while Dolby® digital 6-channel support brings incredible sound quality. Onboard 1394/USB 2.0 interfaces further enable smooth audio/video data transfer between DV/MP3 players and systems. In addition, Dual-Channel DDR400 and Serial ATA technology significantly enhance overall system performance, while a dual LAN design and Windows’ native Internet connection streamline your networking platform.
AGP 8X Technology
AGP8X (AGP 3.0) is the next generation VGA interface specification that enables enhanced graphics performance with high bandwidth speeds up to 2.12GB/s and twice as fast as AGP4X.
Dual-Channel DDR400 Support
The 128-bit TwinBank DDR Memory architecture doubles the DDR 400 (PC3200) bandwidth. System bottlenecks are eliminated with balanced architecture and peak bandwidth up to 6.4GB/s.
ASUS C.O.P (CPU Overheating Protection)
ASUS C.O.P (CPU Overheating Protection) is a hardware protection circuit that automatically shuts down the system power before temperatures go high enough to permanently damage your CPU.
6-Channel Audio
The A7N8X uses an onboard Realtek® ALC650 audio CODEC that lets you enjoy high-quality 6-channel audio without having to buy advanced sound cards.
6 USB 2.0 Ports
USB 2.0 is the latest connectivity standard for next generation components and peripherals. Backward compatible with current USB 1.1 peripherals, USB 2.0 delivers transfer speeds up to 40 times faster at 480MB/s, for easy connectivity and ultra-fast data transfers.
ASUS Q-Fan Technology
Constant, high-pitched noise generated from heatsink fans are a thing of the past thanks to ASUS Q-Fanâ„¢. The ASUS A7N8X with Q-Fanâ„¢ technology intelligently adjusts fan speeds according to system loading to ensure quiet, cool and efficient operation.
ASUS Reliability
All ASUS motherboards are designed and tested to meet the highest quality standards. Responsive customer support and frequent BIOS and driver updates ensure the fastest, most reliable performance.
You can get your Athlon64 now your Athlon64 XP3200+ for US$499 http://www.dealtime.com/dt-app/SE/KW-AMD%20ATHLON64%203200+…)/FD-0/linkin_id-3026240/NS-1/GS.html
Well the link is dead. I’ve never heard of the “Ultra” brand drive. Apple uses a Sony brand SuperDrive.
Does this motherboard have optical audio out?
Does it have 8 memory slots? Does it have 4?
Does it have PCI-X?
Does it have 2 processor slots?
FW800?
Socket A so 400MHZ FSB at the most.
I don’t see Athlon64 on pricewatch and their is no press release on the AMD site saying that it is now available.
maybe you were looking for this link…
http://www.computers4sure.com/product.asp?productid=1772783&affid=6…
They have it listed as shipping in 2-4 weeks.
thanx for replyin to that jerk…
i think theres nothin left to say !!!!
and i think hes got nothin left to say.
no problemo, the thing is Athlon64 is a great processor but its not shipping yet. The release date is Sept 23rd so it boggles the mind that a Mac guy has to correct a PC guy on something so trivial.
The Athlon64 is a great processor but listing a motherboard and a processor from pricewatch DOES NOT offer people solutions. Shipping an entire system engineered to work together is, and if you buy 100 systems they are all identical and will perform in like manner. That why Dell is killing even the whitebox PC shops.
There will always be a market for Apple. People will buy products with a high level of fit and finish, perceived or actualized. You’ll see this in cars, boats, clothes and homes.
There is NO reason to buy BMW or a Mercedes when a Lincoln will get you to the grocery store just the same but people will continue to buy high end cars with steep price tags.
Another weird thing is why the great concern for what people pay for Macs. If you have the money then good for you. If you don’t then get something else that will suit you but don’t cry about it and blabber how people should spend their money on what you can afford or what is right for you?