“Sure, people will rail against Bill Gates every chance they get. But when it comes time to put up or shut up — to remove all traces of Microsoft software from their hard drives — you better believe they’ll think twice.” Read the editorial at eCommerceTimes.
The Anti-Microsoft Tipping Point: Are We There Yet?
About The Author
Eugenia Loli
Ex-programmer, ex-editor in chief at OSNews.com, now a visual artist/filmmaker.
Follow me on Twitter @EugeniaLoli
“But when it comes time to put up or shut up — to remove all traces of Microsoft software from their hard drives — you better believe they’ll think twice.”
Sterling Ball certainly didn’t think twice:
http://news.com.com/2008-1082_3-5065859.html?tag=fd_lede2_hed
There are only 2 reasons I keep Windows on my home PC:
Games
Programing
Other than that, any other OS will do – MAC OS X in particualr since I do a lot with Music.
I didn’t think twice. When I hear people saying that MS based systems are necessary to get “real work” done, I just sit at my GNU/LInux box and get my work done.
I don’t waste my time to blame MS or mr. Gates, or whatever. It’s too childish. But free software really matters, and when I stripped down every single windows bit from my computer, I’ve breathe in peace:)
I AM.
>There are only 2 reasons I keep Windows on my home >PC:
> Games
> Programing
I didn’t understand the second one. In fact, there are a lot of other OS where you can do programming even better than windows…
It’s default non-MS anything. End of problem. Works for me.
Luposian
I do still have one Windows computer. At least I think I do. I haven’t used it in so long that I could probably find it. But I haven’t used it in over a year.
Mac OS X and Lindows. Between these two I’ve not needed or wanted for anything in the last 12 plus months. I have all the games I want to play (or will have when Doom 3 comes out). I have all the apps that I need including the ability to read and save in Word, Excel, etc., formats. People I correspond with have no clue that I don’t use Windows until I tell them. Then they are shocked.
The tipping point? It already happened with me. Now where IS that Windows computer so I can sell it on eBay…
The last time I bought something from MS, was Windows ME, that came with the my computer, this was before I ever heard of GNU/Linux. Windows ME still sits on my computer, but I will never ever buy something else from MS… until they licence all their software under the GPL, and I can download WIndows ISO’s of their site
it’s all the great software not written by microsoft.. (and games
First of all… I haven’t thought twice. I live fine without MS and have done so since 1985.
The problem is not MS though. If people prefer their GUI and can live with an insecure system …let them. Microsoft should be allowed in a free marked like anybody else.
The real problem these days are patent- and copyright law. copyright law has been turned into a weapon of monopolies with the DMCA and EUCD.
Currently EU is about to allow software patents. – another weapon of monopolies.
If this is not stopped, the open standards on which the net is based will be history.
There will be no free marked.
Support EFF (http://www.eff.org/) or any other equivalent local organisation.
I have no need for windows I am Java developer all my tools just runs great in Linux and Unix. My desktop runs on Redhat at home and work. I use mozilla, xamian, IntelliJ, Openoffice, Weblogic 7/8 all runs better in Linux. I play games like Wolf ET, Quake3, Everquest/WCIII(Winex).
The only thing holding me back from adopting Linux as a desktop solution is my hardware. Windows2k/XP simply operates significantly faster in my everyday operations. (NOTE: When I say ‘desktop solution,’ I am referring to GNOME or KDE. Fluxbox/icewm/etc. just don’t cut it for my needs)…
I will say that Linux has improved and will undoubtedly continue to improve… and I keep trying various flavors every month…. but… I’m not gonna go buy a new processor just to run Linux and OpenSource OS’s…. I realize hardware is cheap these days, but the way I see it, if it works adequately on windows, it should be able to on linux as well….
I’d like to move away from proprietary products all together, but until the aforementioned is taken care of… I’ll deal with Windows, and use any decent freeware products I can find for that platform.
(PS: Yes, I’ve tried Gentoo, and all the specific optimizations for my hardware…and running a minimal set of system services….it still runs too slowly…)
Well, I don’t know what kind of hardware you’re running, but if it supports Windows XP, it will surely support KDE or Gnome. I’ve run KDE on a P-II 350 with no problems, and had a fairly snappy experience of it. I’d like to see how well Windows XP fairs on the same system (192MB RAM).
>>There are only 2 reasons I keep Windows on my home >PC:
>> Games
>> Programing
>I didn’t understand the second one. In fact, there are a >lot of other OS where you can do programming even better >than windows…
First, the platform doesn’t/shouldn’t make any difference in how anyone programs. Or is that you think you can’t create good quality code in windows? Either way, I think you’re wrong.
Second, until companies start wanting to pay me (the same large amount of money) to create software for non-MS platforms I’ll have at least one machine at home that runs windows so that I can continually hone my Visual Studio skills.
/J
(Gentoo/KDE geek)
Money is what it all comes down to. People talk about how free software is so great, but where is the incentive here? All of this “free software” for linux is stuff that is done in peoples’ free time. They obviously can’t make a living off creating free software that noone pays them to make. And that’s why linux is still behind in the applications department. Windows apps are so much better because the commercial market for desktop applications is much better. Linux is good as a free/spare time thing to tinker on, but for desktops, windows will be the main OS for a while.
Microsoft has been gone from my desktop for years. I will never again use the overpriced, buggy, proprietary garbage from Microsoft.
(nor will I bother reading the clueless article as I have heard and read it all before.)
Running a PIII-850, 256mb RAM… KDE is intolerably slow compared to XP on this machine…. GNOME is surprisingly faster in certain disciplines, but it lacks the level of integration I’d like to have.
Don’t get me wrong. Both KDE/GNOME support my architecture, but i’d hardly say that either is *SNAPPY* compared to what I’m used to with XP.
I’m not sure what to say about your PII-350 system. If it works faster/fast enough for you, Kudos! I wish it did on mine!
I know a lot of people I hang out with from time to time who have a lot of problems with their winPCs and viruses, random crashes, adware, spyware, etc. They’re interested in alternatives like linux, but I’m holding off on setting them up with a linux box until later this year when the 2.6 kernel and KDE 3.2 are out. I feel like linux on the desktop is ready for me, but it’s just not quite *there* yet for people who are still baffled by Windows or just plain used to it. I can set up a desktop that’s mindlessly simple to use and looks incredible, but the main issue is speed…they would definitely notice how much longer it takes in linux between the time you click an icon and the time anything actually happens. Very high latency right now. The KDE team has said that the main focus of KDE 3.2 development is speed, and beta testers who have used the 2.6 kernel with its new scheduler swear it’s noticeably faster at launching applications (lower latency). If what I’m reading is true, KDE 3.2 + Linux 2.6 is going to be the real starting point for linux on the desktop, the tipping point at which I’m comfortable giving Linux to anyone. At least I hope so.
“Mac OS X and Lindows. Between these two I’ve not needed or wanted for anything in the last 12 plus months. I have all the games I want to play (or will have when Doom 3 comes out). I have all the apps that I need including the ability to read and save in Word, Excel, etc., formats.”
Wow amazing ! Actually I do all of this using only ONE OS, and it’s called Windows. You should give it a try some day.
“> Games
> Programing
I didn’t understand the second one. In fact, there are a lot of other OS where you can do programming even better than windows…”
How do you know ? How do you know for which target he is programming for ?
On side contracts I have Windows user clients. I better program under Windows. At my job I program for Gameboy Advance using official Nintendo devKit, better program in Window. For the fun at home, I develop for my Psion Netbook. Devkit is best suited for Visual Studio. Windows again.
Three totally different situations. All of them way better, or absolutely in need of Windows.
I have 5 pcs. 4 are x86 including a laptop. None run M$. All of them except for the oldest run Mandrake 9.1. The laptop is running damn small linux. The other pc is a apple powerbook which runs osx. Do i miss m$ no. You can survive no problem. I do it everyday. I print from all computers and do everything i want to do including games. Dont be afraid you can live without M$ and learn alot about computing in the process. Free your mind and the rest will follow.
Correction my laptop runs Mandrake 9.1. The oldest computer i have is a amd k6-2 300 mhz 256mb ram that is running the latest Damn Small Linux. Sorry for the typo.
“Dont be afraid you can live without M$ and learn alot about computing in the process. Free your mind and the rest will follow.”
That’s just crap. How can you tell me something like that, while you have absolutelly *NO* idea what I use my PCs for ?
Hey construction guy ! Forget your 4×4 pickup and buy a Honda Civic. It fit MY needs so it should fit the needs of EVERYONE on earth !
JSplice said:
They obviously can’t make a living off creating free software that noone pays them to make. And that’s why linux is still behind in the applications department. Windows apps are so much better because the commercial market for desktop applications is much better.>>>
Got it in one. The fact that a lot of Linux apps are coded in people’s spare time shows in the dark.
As soon as there’s good commerical software, desktop Linux will take off.
it turns out that the NE lost power cause of some lame windows virus knocking out a saftey system at a Nuclear power plant or something similar than… well…
Maybe it is time to move far away from ohio….
It can fit your needs yours mine everyones. If it doesnt it soon will and that is no crap. But if you like paying out money go right ahead, its not my money.
I’m beginning to convert people step by step, ie by changing the apps first. My parents are now using Mozilla and OpenOffice on Windows, and they’re very happy with that. And even they are fed up of hearing about the viruses & worms, so I’ve offered to rebuild their machine with Linux.
They’ll hardly notice the difference now, because they’ll be using *exactly* the same apps, launched by clicking on identical icons. They’re not going to know or care that the underlying system is completely different.
Anyway, I’m a 100% Linux user, but I admit that it’s not for everyone yet. And yes, I’ll also happily admit that Windows 2000 is dramatically faster than KDE/Linux on my Athlon machine. Sad but true; let’s hope that the spangly Linux desktops get faster and more efficient….
An operating system is a tool. Just like a computer, or an application.
People treat OS’s like they’re some kind of religion, or child. I don’t get it.
I used to run Linux all the time, but incompatabilities with applications makes it hard. If a client gives me something in word format, and it doesn’t import properly, I have to deal with that. Time is money to me.
Now, at the same time, OSS is VERY impressive. I used to use KDE back in the .9 days and let me tell you, the leaps that it has made is impressive. Open Office is a wonderful replacement for most office users, Gimp is still a great graphic app (i still use it under Windows).
But “free” doesn’t mean you have to use it
On the flip side, I have installed plenty of Linux/BSD/Samba servers at clients, they run to this day. But, there are some things that Linux can’t do yet (terminal services is a key feature for many of my clients).
It’s nice to be able to buy the latest usb printer, and have it work…. but this is just me.
Again, Linux is good if it fits the situation…. Windows being the same way. If I can do a job with Linux instead of Windows, I will…. but some jobs REQUIRE Windows… so I use that.
Remember, it’s just an OS… don’t take it personally
“Running a PIII-850, 256mb RAM… KDE is intolerably slow compared to XP on this machine…. GNOME is surprisingly faster in certain disciplines, but it lacks the level of integration I’d like to have. ”
Dude, I think you messed something up. I am running XD2 ontop of Gnome 2.2 on a PII 350 with 128 megs of ram, 2 megs of video ram and it is running fine.
As for Windows XP, once it boots, the lag to do anything is intolerable. Windows 2000 runs close to the speed of Linux/Gnome, but not quite.
Check your configurations and setup.
I’m currently using linux 2.6.0test3 with XFS and latest KDE 3.2 cvs, and I can say that’s sooo much faster than KDE 3.1 w/ kernel 2.4 (and surprisingly stable !). I never used windows on my humble duron 950 512 Mb RAM, but I think this combination will address the needs of many desktop users. Gnome has good performance too. So, people that want/need speed, wait until the stable release of KDE 3.2 and linux 2.6. It will truly rocks.
“If it doesnt it soon will and that is no crap.”
Funny, people like you repeat me this sentence since mid-’90s. Yet, I still wait again, and again, and again, for an alternative of Windows to fit MY needs.
So your “it soon will” sound pretty funny to me.
I have been exclusively using FreeBSD and OS X for a couple of years now. No worms or viruses – the stuff just works.
In a near computational monoculture it makes real sense to avoid placing yourself at ground zero. It is amusing watching MS based MIS types burn so much time battling with issues that never bother me.
I’m not sure I understand his point. Here is the gist of the article as I find it:
– Windows has flaws
– It is good enough for most people, and easy to use
– the “tipping point” is far in the future. What the “tipping point” is is undefined.
– if linux was just as popular, it would be just as bad
– people who criticize MS can’t live without it
This seems like one long rant without a point. Is the point that MS is “good enough” and therefore should be free of criticism? Is the point that wanting competition is wrong because the “tipping point” (again, undefined) is so far in the future? Help me out someone. It just makes no sense to me.
As to his comment, “But when it comes time to put up or shut up — to remove all traces of Microsoft software from their hard drives — you better believe they’ll think twice,” I don’t see the logic here. I thought the whole reason for criticizing MS was that we (majority of people, not everyone) have no realistic choice BUT to use MS. And that means what? Because I am trapped into MS file formats, I cannot wish for real competition?
He may have a point, but I just don’t see what it is, other than “Sure, MS may have ACTED like a monopoly, but just bend over and take it.” If that was his point, then it was a good article.
“People treat OS’s like they’re some kind of religion, or child. I don’t get it.”
It has to do with freedom, which is often more powerful than religion or children. When software companies tell you what you can, and cannot do, does that bother you? It does for most people, and that is why there is such animosity towards MS.
Also, it has to do with pride. When people put their efforts into something, it’s natural to want it to be better than anything else. When you are in a contest, you usually think “I am WAY better than that guy.” Again, pride. So it’s not JUST a tool, it’s a labor of love (I hate that expression!) That’s why people “take it personally.” You don’t see that much with MS other than MS employees since they don’t actually contribute the code. They just cheer along the sidelines, and that’s not the same thing. Hope this clarifies it.
“It can fit your needs yours mine everyones. If it doesnt it soon will and that is no crap. But if you like paying out money go right ahead, its not my money. ”
I’ve been hearing this for years, yet Linux has a long way to go before it can replace Windows on my desktop, Linux still features I find essential. Decent dual headed display support, hibernation that doesn’t destroy my Linux installation and a consistent GUI with copy&paste between apps are features I’m not willing to live without.
I spent money buying a fairly high end PC as I’m not willing to put up with the limitations of low end hardware. So spending money on an OS that makes me much more productive doesn’t bother me. I don’t always like what Microsoft do and I’d love to have a free alternative, but I’m not going to cut off my nose to spite my face by using an OS that I find inferior.
So, please, stay with your OS/apps that fit YOUR needs. You know exactly what you are doing and all the implications that your choice can lead. So, it’s pointless trying to convince you. You can make your choice. We made ours. It’s simple.
Same as above
I agree we should all stay with the OS that meets our needs, I was disagreeing with the assertion that Linux can (or soon will) fit anyone’s needs.
Quite a few Linux advocates seem to feel that the only thing holding Linux back is fear of change. I’ve seen plenty of people argue that anyone can happily switch to Linux if they’re willing to learn it. I was simply pointing out that Windows still has many advantages as a desktop OS and for some people Linux isn’t an acceptable replacement. I very much doubt that’s going to change any time soon.
GNU/Linux can be tweaked to be very responsive, but for a newbie I would recommend to try out Libranet 2.7. They have patched 2.4.19 kernel quite nicely to meet the need for speed in the desktop. Also FreeBSD has in my computer been out of the box faster than most GNU/Linux distros.
But, there are some things that Linux can’t do yet (terminal services is a key feature for many of my clients).
I’m guessing (So brace yourself!), but I suspect that you’re saying that there are remote applications which only run on Windows that must be accessed via. Windows Terminal Services. There are certainly *nix clients for RDP that can connect to a Windows machine; http://www.rdesktop.org/ So you could still drop a thin-client style Linux box on the users desktop and let them access the expensive Windows machines serving RDP to them. I believe this ships with most major distributions now, too.
While I’m quite willing to admit that not every solution is to install $FREE_SOFTWARE[1] but at the same time a lot of people don’t seem to give it enough credit, and instead spring for an over engineered solution “Just in case”. I guess it keeps a lot of consultants in new cars.
Oh and yeas, I’d also like to be able to plug in a peice of hardware and just have it just work, too. All we need to do is get hardware manufacturers to stick to established standards and publish non-encumbered, complete specifications. Should be easy..
[1]: Or even worse, Linux. Got a server? Linux. Desktop? Linux. PDA? Linux. NUMA super computer? Linux. Shoebox? Linux.. The phrase “Jack of all trades, master of none.” comes to mind.
I agree with the comment on avoiding MS, but I don’t think it hurts to have one foot in the Windows world. As one man said about working in DC when asked what he thought about terrorism: “I’m not that worried. However my family and I have agreed that if anything happens we’ll meet at my other house… 40 miles from here.”
Using Windows is ok, but make sure you have a haven for when things go sour.
P350 vs P850…
Perhaps the speed difference b/w GNOME/KDE and WinXP/2K is just by design.
Maybe KDE/GNOME handles comparatively better on older systems than WinXP… but, when you turn the clock frequency up (marginally, anyway)…WinXP seems to perform considerably faster than the other two. A few others here have also mentioned that their modern processors (i.e. AthlonXPs, etc.) don’t seem to measure up as well in Linux as they do in WinXP/2K.
Again, I don’t know why this is. I’ve tried about 13 distributions with very similar results. I figured it was something inherent to the design of the linux environment/kernel/xfree/etc. And, as some have mentioned here regarding the new 2.6 kernel and KDE 3.2, it looks as tho that may be the case.
*Shrug*
I ditched all MS stuff of my Mac over a year ago, strangely the occaisonal crashes that I had, stopped since then!
“So, please, stay with your OS/apps that fit YOUR needs. You know exactly what you are doing and all the implications that your choice can lead. So, it’s pointless trying to convince you. You can make your choice. We made ours. It’s simple. ”
Well, Lucas, I don’t know how you read the forum, but you should’ve seen that this whole discussion have been started by Eightiesdude with this message :
“You can survive no problem. I do it everyday. I print from all computers and do everything i want to do including games. Dont be afraid you can live without M$ and learn alot about computing in the process. Free your mind and the rest will follow. ”
So please address your reply to him, not me.
I’m not Microsoft Free. Not everything Microsoft makes is bad. I just loaded three components of office on my OSX mac, and while they each have some annoying bugs (Microsoft testing: “Hey, it compiles! Ship it!”
they do work, and they *are* pretty cool. Less cool is MSIE, that I keep around for ignorant site managers who don’t test with anything else.
I don’t object to Microsoft the software house. They do write some halfway decent software for my platform of choice. Halfway. As decent as Appleworks in this case, which suffered serious performance problems in the last patch.
I object to Microsoft the monopoly trying to remove that choice, that’s all. So going Microsoft free? Nah. I’m not willing to cut off my nose to spite my face. My glasses would fall down. Windows free? Definately.
-HH
Well, I do run Windows, but the only two other MS apps I run on a consistant basis is Office and Streets & Trips 2003 (soon 2004), and I could definitely live without both of these .. though I consider them to be the best of their kind?
that runs on PC hardware. Other than that, it’s all non-MS software.
Claims that “Windows has done the seemingly impossible — made computers familiar and easy for the general population toiling away on them.”
I thought HP just said it’s “too hard” to do a lot of things, and wants to offer something integrated like apple does.
Then, “In fact, computer users are conditioned to expect a certain amount of annoyance.”
Well which is it? Is windows familiar and easy, or annoying? Make up your mind.
And for games, I just have my gamecube and my dreamcast.. and there’s ps2 too! Never liked PC games much.
I have suffered from microsoft abuse, but I’ve been in detox for quite some time kiddies. I don’t use MSFT products. I don’t have to. Detox was the easiest thing really. Not hard at all.
So, to say the “people” can’t live without MSFT products, is just crazy person talk. I’m a “people”, you must mean “sheeple”
hasta!
Using a MicroSilly product is like sticking a gun up your arse and paying Willy Gates for shooting yourself.
Microsoft’s product activation and DRM (especially palladium) is what finally convinced me that microsoft is out to destroy our computing freedom. Since then, I will never buy a microsoft product again.
Hundreds of thousands use dedicated apps that isn’t available on other OS (i.e. AutoCAD), needs to be “detox” for no apparent reason? I had used Linux dedicated some time ago, I must have undid my “detox”, but frankly, having a lot of “toxins” waiting to be “detox” is more fun when I was “detox”. Again, other than surfing, email and IRC chat, everything else I do on Windows I can’t on Linux. Can on the Mac, but why should I pay such a high price just to be “detox”?
yeah, id love to remove it. however, i require matlab for my uni courses. the linux version is kinda hard to find (without paying for it), but the windows version (and windows itself) is rampantly pirated here.
The brazilian government, a couple of years ago, had a great sum to invest on computers for our schools( public ones, of course). There was a big discussion to choose the OS of these computers. So, a Phd computer science student, proposed that the systems should run Leenux, so, that way, they could buy more hardware, instead of spending a lot of money with OS liscences. The propose was received with happyness by the senate and the president. One week before the decision of this project, mr. Balmer visited our president, just to show him that M$ gives many beneficts to our country.( they really pay many taxes, give “many” jobs, etc ). So, the end of history is, they choosed Winblows, bought almost the half numbers of computers to our poor children…the argument: winblos is much more easy to deal with…does anyone beleive on that? no more to say…( btw, i know that this is not related do the discussion, but i found this a way to show what happened here)
Well, if you’re a writer, software developer, scientist, engineer, or someone out there capable of creating intellectual property, the future consequences of adopting the M$ vision of trusted computing might amount to:
Having no local storage not visible and accessible by Homeland Security, or BSA, or NSA, or some other agency authorized to steal your work, or control whether you use it, or not, or whether you profit from it, or not.
If that doesn’t “tip the scale”, then America truly has become an incredibly ignorant country, fully deserving of the electronic enslavement Brother Bill and his friends now invading Sacramento are exhorting you to submit to, and at your own considerable expense I might add.
“Hundreds of thousands use dedicated apps that isn’t available on other OS (i.e. AutoCAD)”
I do not know what your requirements are but Parametric Techonology’s Pro/ENGINEER Wildfire (3-D MCAD software) is one of the big three corporate suppliers. HP has certified workstations for RedHat 7.2 .
-c
All of this “free software” for linux is stuff that is done in peoples’ free time. They obviously can’t make a living off creating free software that noone pays them to make. –JSplice
You are are so utterly wrong that I don’t know where to begin. But I’ll try.
“All” free software isn’t written by any one group, for any one purpose. Some is written by people in their spare time, just as many Windows programs are. You probably have some on your hard drive now.
Most free software is written by professional programmers hired specifically to do that. The most frequent contributors to the Linux kernel work for companies with an interest in using Linux.
Every study of job listings for programmers shows that the great majority of code is written for internal use within the company hiring the programmer. Code written on speculation for sale to others is a tiny fraction of the total. Selling software only makes sense when there are a large number of users with similar needs.
The success of Microsoft shows that even a small portion of the overall demand for software can be amazingly large. But too many observers are blinded by the quantity of money that Microsoft collects, and they miss two key facts:
1) The amount of money spent on software which is not sold as a standalone product is orders of magnitude larger.
2) Software is written because people can make money using it, not because they make money selling it.
Software is a tool. People will spend money to buy tools if they need the tools in order to make money doing something else. They will also spend money to make the tools that they need, if that makes more sense. The make/buy decision is one that every business makes.
Developing software in secrecy is expensive. Selling software is expensive. Administering licenses is expensive.
Developing software in the open is much cheaper. You don’t need to reinvent the wheel. Develop in the open, and share the cost with everyone else who needs the same tool, and the costs become incredibly low. Distributing software is dirt cheap, if you allow copying. It simply costs less to develop the same software as free and open software than it does to develop it with intent to sell.
Free software development is funded by the end users, with the lowest possible overhead. Commercial software is developed at a higher cost, by speculators who then add even more overhead in sales costs.
Commercial software might fit your needs better right now. But in the long run, the inefficient middlemen will be unable to compete, for any market adequate to support the sales of software in binary form is way larger than that needed to support the development of free and open software.
It all comes down to money. Software users can get their software much cheaper if they bypass the middleman.
I think Windows is annoying in a familiar way. 🙂
I like Linux and Bsd. if you like somethng else knock yourself out. My original post was to say that on 5 pcs i have used Linux, BSD and osX and do not need or miss windows. Its been great for me to switch completely if you dont want too well thats your choice.
I am confident that Linux will overtake windows one day on all aspects. I am just very grateful for all the hard work that GNU, Linus and all the others that have made this os such a joy to use and learn. I have never felt more free and I thank you all in the LInux community. Keep up the good work. Cant wait for 2.6 and kde 3.2 woo hoo
>>
Running a PIII-850, 256mb RAM… KDE is intolerably slow compared to XP on this machine…. GNOME is surprisingly faster in certain disciplines, but it lacks the level of integration I’d like to have.
Don’t get me wrong. Both KDE/GNOME support my architecture, but i’d hardly say that either is *SNAPPY* compared to what I’m used to with XP
>>
It depends what you mean by slow?
Multi-tasking and file IO under Linux will outdo XP.
For example, try upgrading programs while listening to MP3’s at the same time….
Indeed, the first time launching of KDE 3.1 / Gnome 2.2 applications as well as OpenOffice and Mozilla is slower than say lunching IE under XP. The problem stems from how the dynamic linker works in Linux and from the complicated but feature rich internal design of the respective desktops.
However, subsequent launches are much faster due to Linux caching techniques. I hope the linker issue will be corrected soon.
Furthermore, KDE has alleviated the problem with kdeinit if you’re using the KDE desktop. If you’re not using the KDE desktop but you want to use a KDE app, it’s intolerable because kdeinit has to be launched before the app is launched.
To say that it’s intolerable on your architecture is very puzzling if you’re running KDE. Likewise if you’re running Gnome 2.2 and sticking only to Gtk/Gnome apps. I’m using the latest KDE/Gnome on a PIII 700 with 256MB and it’s works great. I’m actually impressed with how well it works. On a 1.6 Pentium M processor with 1GB ram, it’s lightning fast.
I’ve used XP on a 1.7 P4 and I wouldn’t say it does that much better than Linux on my PIII.
If you’re having a problem with GUI responsiveness,
perhaps you’re using the framebuffer driver instead of your graphics card driver?? Also check how much swap space you have?? For that system, you should have at least 256MB of wap.
>>I am running XD2 ontop of Gnome 2.2 on a PII 350 with 128 megs of ram, 2 megs of video ram and it is running fine.
As for Windows XP, once it boots, the lag to do anything is intolerable. Windows 2000 runs close to the speed of Linux/Gnome, but not quite. <<
Windows XP seems to run a lot slower on older systems. I was running it on a laptop with the p2 350, and you’re right, it was just unbearable. I haven’t run Linux on that laptop, so I’m not going to make any claims as far as speed goes on that.
However, on my current system, which is running an athlon xp 1700 and 256mb ram (soon i will upgrade, as in, when memory prices drop at least 20 bucks to where they were a few months ago -_-), windows xp runs just fine, whereas kde and gnome running in both RH and freebsd were incredibly laggy. i’m hoping the new kde and linux kernal will solve that.
ah shore do like potatoes.
I seldom boot windoze anymore,I’m running a Stand-alone BeOS machine as my main computer,and use it for most of the stuff I do,I also have an old Mac Power PC with MacOS 8.6 and BeOS on it,and an Intel DotStation with Debian Linux stand -alone on it,altho I still use my Win98 box for some graphix work I do mainly becase at the time,I bought the peripherial(printer/scanner,etc)devices with no foresight to cross-platform compatability,and they haven’t wore out yet,but with Refraction(a full-featured commercial BeOS graphics editor) coming to maturity on the BeOS platform,the fact that most of the really good Windoze graphix apps have a Mac version,and the Gimp in Linux,there’s really little to hold me in M$,other than the fact that that old hardware is bought and paid for and refuses to wear out,but when it does you can bet it will be replaced by non-M$ specific stuff!
no.
I just bought myself a copy of “Teach Yourself ASP.NET”
I’ve got Mono http://www.go-mono.com/ and am certain with Linux and Mono I’ve got all I need to keep up with whatever Microsoft decides to do with DOT NET.
Now all I need is to find some more good books on ADO.NET and C#, and I’m away laughing.
Anyone else having problem opening the artikkle with Mozilla Firebird (Windows XP)..
Firebird crashes every time i try top open it.
I don’t use any microsoft product (except there MSN protocol with Gaim, document format with OpenOffice) for over 2,5 years now. I can’t think of anything I’m missing.
THe only times I use MS products is when I’m called in by family and friends to solve the problems they have.
Visual Studio sucks.
It seems you’re writing C/C++, so here you go:
editors: kdevelop, emacs, vim, source insight, eclipse
compilers: gcc 3.x, ibm javac
debuggers: gdb + interfaces (insight, kdbg)
builders: gmake
leak detector, bounds checker: valgrind
dev tools: /usr/bin/*
IDEs: eclipse, kdevelop/gideon/anjuta
if you need your program to use win32 libs, you can always target wine.
at work the people who use windows are all running cygwin to really get their work done.
real software developers use real operating systems (with useful userspace tools!)…
Downloading the latest security patch to fix the latest vunerability found in Windows makes me wonder … Just how many MORE vunerabilities are written into that inferior code from Redmond ?? …. The patches only fix the vunerabilities which were reported … not the many which will be found next week / month !
And what about the worm(s) du jour ? How often are you supposed to download the latest update to your virus scanner ?
The average computer user buys a WinTel Box because hes heard that its cheaper than the alternative…
But, for those on a 56k dialup, the time it takes to download all the patches and updates and install them must be worth something …
There is a better alternative .. but it will require a mere 20 minutes or so to learn the OS … and the money you’ll save from not having to download all those security patches every week and those virus scanner updates every two weeks .. might put a smile on your face ..
Not to mention the fact that you’ll be mostly hassle-free from over-bloated code atop a jurrasic DOS shell !
And you’ll be able to laugh at the next OS vunerability, as well as the next virus which comes down the pipe !
But, you’ll have to learn how to “Think Different” ®
Humans resist change. That is a simple fact. How long did it take you to sell your first car? Even after it left you at the curb a few times. How quickly will you change from red hat to debian? or from linux to bsd? My mom uses MS word at work. She does not want to learn a new word processor so she can type the odd document at home.
And I love Linux and run it at home. BUT I will not give it for someone to run at home where there is no geek to help the person should there be a problem.
Just read the replies up until the last one (Comment 69 by hab). It is pretty funny to see how some think that being “Microsoft free” is some sort of religous nirvana and that they’re some how been given an olive branch of freedom.
For me, I run an eMac w/ 512MB RAM and MacOS X. I also run Macromedia Studio MX, Corel Graphics Suite 11 and Microsoft Office X. I chose to move to Mac because the Linux/x86 world did not deliver what I wanted. What I want and what you want are two completely different things.
Here is my take:
Linux is going to definately grow on the technical workstation and server front. On the technical workstation front, the main victims will be the *NIX workstation family, especially SGI unless they come up with an Itanium workstation of some form and their third party stops leaving in droves (SGI is hoping to win them back via free development tools). In terms of Windows -> Linux migration, yes, it will happen, however, it will be alot harder to track many users may simply grab a download copy and install it themselves.
The server market place will be another area where Linux will continue to grow, however, it will be mainly heading towards the Windows side of the market. Sure, Microsoft can promote this “Microsoft Office System” hype, but at the end of the day, if the clued in manager looks at the facts and cannot justify paying for a piece of Microsoft hypeware, Microsoft will lose a customer.
On the client front, however, it will be alot harder and ultimately, it may not even happen. The fact remains that Windows does get the job done for most people, also, by default, people are lazy. Issues (security and stability) would have to get REALLY bad for people to change. Also, there has to be the applications *THERE*. Simply giving the same of some piece of obscure software off freshmeat.com isn’t going to bring cheers of excitement to the user base.
The user base would like to run the same applications but on Linux. Most people are very happy with the applications they run but they aren’t going to give them up just because some poin-dexter is telling them that Microsoft is the root of all evil and that they should move to the “light” of Linux.
I’ve tried to get people interested into paying companies to port applications to Linux, heck, I even offered to put in $1000 of my own money to start off the fund. Response, a complete blank stare. If this is the “enthusiasm” that the Linux community show to some one trying to take the innitiative and get commercial vendors on board? no wonder the only applications that are available are either ultra-high end software, emulators, virtual machines or terribly average software (TheKompany, Hancom, Applixware).
As for where Linux will go in its current form, like Apple, will occupy niche markets, however, it will never get into the mainstream until the above issues are fixed.
Linux *COULD* if it wanted to simply take the Apple approach and work in niche areas. I mean, lets look at the facts, what is wrong with Linux dominating the server market and a few niche areas of the workstation market? It has worked for Apple, who has turned a profit of $400plus million this year, and will be plowing a good $400million back into the business via R&D, there is nothing stopping Linux from doing the same, that is, sticking to the niche areas which Linux is good at and simply improve on it.
As for me, I am quite happy to run Microsoft software. As I said previously, I run Office X with the latest service pack and I’m having no problems with it. Sure, I don’t run the media player, however, that isn’t due to any thing political, I just don’t use streaming media as I am still stuck on the end of a 56K modem, oh, and btw, I don’t have RealOne either, I don’t feel the need to give alway all my personal information just so that I get the “pleasure” of running a media player.
yup, but since it was trying to open a “worlds largest casino” popup i couldn’t care less. to hell with sites who open those popups
So… After some weeks reading discussions here I have a question for you colleagues: What if…
There could be a release (from IBM) of this new “G5” processors in a way that other companies could create mobos and other periferals to it and software also…
Then, lets say there could be OSX, Linux, Windows, BeOs and whatever you like running on the same platform!
I am simply following the arguments of both PC and MAC users here. They are:
-PC users value the greater possiblility of choice of hardware and software for their needs, and a wider range of price.
-MAC users claim that MACs are not more expensive than PCs if using the same quality parts.
If nobody is wrong we would have the possibility to really compare the quality of the software solutions running on similar hardware.
There would be also the judgement about the effectiveness of the ALL-INTEGRATED-IN-ONE (MAC) approach against the MULTITUDE-OF-CHOICE-DARWINIAN-COMPETITION (PC) approach.
more…
-MAC users (at least great part of them) also say that the “CISC”-like procesors are coming to a dead end and they are technologically inferior, and PC people tends to downgrade this argument and rebate that MAC uses lots of PC-like parts now.
We would have also the same Linuxes and Windows running on both platforms, so we could solve this dispute too!
And more.. This is more competition, forcing greater price drops in everywhere (a giant version of the effect of AMD into Intel prices)
A lot of wishful thinking, no? But if somebody could tell me a better dream for we users, tell me.
When it comes to server Linux is better option that Microsoft. Whatever u guys say Microsoft it best desktop OS but i totally disagree with this when it comes to server. I work on linux server, I Know how powerful and flexible it is. I never use Gnome or KDE. Only shell which is the best utility unix has, and believe me its rock solid. Linux when install without Gnome or kde work without any problem and it work without a single crash in the system.
i’m quite functional and proficient in linux.
it is this very “comfortableness” in linux that allows me to keep a windows machine around, or dual boot xp w/redhat…and not really care.
someone could threaten all sorts of stuff….”we’ll take your windows away”…..”the licensing will get outrageous”….etc etc etc.
i don’t really care.
i currently have a choice…and if MS or someone related tries to give me an ultimatum….good bye MS partition.
the people i feel for, are those who rail against MS/windows , but have no choice but to use it.
🙁
KDevelop, just for your education, *SUCK**ASS*. It’s a scaled-down, bugged-up, big mess that barrely try to clone Visual Studio (and definitely fail at it).
“real software developers use real operating systems (with useful userspace tools!)…”
Yeah. That just show how unaware and zealot you are. Pleeaaaze …
Some of us already deploy Open Source solutions, namely FreeBSD and OpenBSD in various functions such as firewalls, file servers, web servers, database servers, etc. Basically got tired of paying Microsoft for unnecessary frustration and agravation of beating their crap into submission.