The Justice Department and 19 states have made peace with Microsoft Corp. over its monopolistic misdeeds. But Tom Reilly is still on the company’s case. The Massachusetts attorney general is the lone public sector holdout who has refused to settle with the Redmond, Wash.-based software giant over allegations that it attempted to crush competitors with monopolistic tactics.
One State Left in Microsoft fight
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Eugenia Loli
Ex-programmer, ex-editor in chief at OSNews.com, now a visual artist/filmmaker.
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I gave up after the government made a deal…..all I can hope for now is that in another 8 years or so we have a Democrat of Teddy Roosevelt Republican in office and takes them to te bare metal over the violations they will surely have made.
that was supposed to be :
“a Democrat _OR A_ Teddy Roosevelt Republican”
Tom Reilly and the state of MA are cool. Its that simple. MS did wrong and MS should be punished beyond the slap in the wrist it got.
Fight the machine!
You know everyonce in a while I’m really proud to live in Boston. Now is one of those times…
DAMN THE MAN
SAVE THE EMPIRE!!!
…I hope the press grills the presidentical candidate regarding his views on antitrust law so that we know where the candidate stands before I give them my vote.
This may be our last chance to establish a competative landscape in computing.
The problem is that politicians haven’t a CLUE when it comes to tech issues! I mean, look at the whole “MP3 BOMB” thing that was brought up a few weeks ago. Such a think couldn’t actually WORK but that didn’t matter at all to the politicians and pundents talking about it. They don’t have a clue. Republicans and Democrats alike. They try to apply old world views of property and business to the new world of computers. They don’t understand how Microsoft is using their monopoly to crush competition and move into new markets and crush the competition there.
Vote for whoever you like in 2004, but you will not get any better a man.
All the former public crusaders against Microsoft are the bad guys now. SUN is a shareholder of SCO and plans to stick it up against linux. Oracle is under anti-trust investigations on the peoplesoft thing.
Don’t get me wrong, because to say I dislike Microsoft is a terrible understatement.
Do we really want a situation where the government takes out Microsoft, when if we give the government that power it can surely be used against us by the next politician in power?
Time to shun any and all politicians who increase the power of government, because the government that’s powerful enough to give you everything you want is powerful enough to take it all away.
The governement already does whatever if wants, look at the Irak debacle.
Some lobbies are too strong, you can’t really hope to have a governement with no ties with any industry.
news flash…..
anti-trust laws have been around since 1900 and are why standard oil does not own every industry today (think about how many industries rely on oil products or use oil products. almost all of them.)
Microsoft has been getting away with stealing/buying other peoples ideas then modifying them and re-selling it as their own for a long time don’t you think it’s about freaking time they pay for what they have done! I live in Iowa and I don’t know why most of the states (including Iowa) pulled out but they were stupid for doing so. GO Massachusetts! I knew if the republicans took over this would happen and we were so close right before the election of actually following through and making them pay. Microsoft needs to get something more than a slap on the wrist, they need to pay sometime.
Honestly i think it’s sortta stupid we have to go to court to prove they have a monopoly and competed unfairly. I dare one judge or public official to prove they don’t have a monopoly. I mean they have like around 90% of the desktop market that alone is a monopoly. I mean the only thing they aren’t winning right now is the server market with UNIX/Linux winning it and the PDA market with Palm dominating it. Other than that everything they have is a monopoly. Lets all see what they say when the palladin (or whatever it’s called) comes out, what will you say then?
Another true example of how “corrupt” the US really is! When the justice system has outcomes like this can we really have faith in anything anymore?
Tom Reilly:
Don’t face into the wind when you unzip your pants. It’s over. The bad guys won.
Anonymous, who said “…I hope the press grills the presidentical candidate regarding his views on antitrust law so that we know where the candidate stands before I give them my vote.”
Yeah, forget about health care or education or anything trivial like that.
Torrey, who said “They try to apply old world views of property and business to the new world of computers.”
Guess what? It turns out that there is nothing special about the “new world of computers” that requires a change to traditional concepts of property or business.
akuma180, who said “Microsoft has been getting away with stealing/buying other peoples ideas…”
Buying yes, but no-one has ever been able to demonstrate that Microsoft stole anything. Get over yourself.
“I live in Iowa and I don’t know why most of the states (including Iowa) pulled out but they were stupid for doing so.”
I don’t know. Maybe they had something more important to spend taxpayer money on.
FightTheMachine, who said something to the effect that Microsoft is a monopoly.
Yes, it is. And what’s more it admits it. Know why? Monopolies aren’t illegal. Using your monopoly unfairly is, hence anti-trust. And guess what; MS was found guilty of abusing its monopoly.
“Lets all see what they say when the palladin (or whatever it’s called) comes out, what will you say then?”
I don’t even know what you’re talking about, so I don’t really know what I’m going to say.
…I hope the press grills the presidentical candidate regarding his views on antitrust law so that we know where the candidate stands before I give them my vote.
It doesn’t matter whether he agrees with antitrust or not, most of the Republicans do, and they control the Congress, not Bush, so repealing the law would be rather difficult thing to do.
This may be our last chance to establish a competative landscape in computing.
No need for antitrust laws for that. I’m currently using happily Opera – no problem for me. I have RH installed on another partition, no problem to me. And considering how more and more big clients are moving to Linux without the push by antitrust laws, i don’t think antitrust would help the situation.
In fact, it would probably make it worse. If you buy a new HP with Windows and Mandrake both installed, which would you use, if you are a regular Joe? Windows of course. And then the browser regulation, if OEMs can’t change browsers for example, Linux can always use Mozilla over Windows as a competitive advantage to consumers. Now they can’t.
What about th earlier defeated ruling? Spliting the company into two – one for applications MS makes (Office, etc.) and another for Windows, it would be worse for the competitive landscape. Because the latter would loose its biggest cash cow, it would be stiffer in competition with Linux, Mac, eith. While the prior would never allow apps like StarOffice and WP Office a single percent of their market, for due survival.
All in all, a less competitive market.
“Lets all see what they say when the palladin (or whatever it’s called) comes out, what will you say then?”
I don’t even know what you’re talking about, so I don’t really know what I’m going to say.
He’s talking of the Next-Generation Secure Computing Base (NGSCB), previously known as “Palladium”. It’s Microsoft’s software implementation of the TCPA. Combined with Intel’s hardware implementation (called “LaGrande”, included in their next CPU, the Prescott), it’ll provide a secure environment for programs. DRM will be much harder to defeat. Some people say it’ll be good (computers will be harder to hack, confidential/top secret documents will stay top secret (as the file system & documents could (and will probably) be encrypted), but some believe that it’ll destroy competition, especially the OSS movement (as the programmers would need a licence to sign/approve their environments). They also believe that we’ll become slaves to the corporations (as they could use DRM to allow us or not to use a program, pay-per-play will probably become a reality, etc).
I guess he’s claiming that Microsoft will be able to extend their monopoly with the TCPA because it’s currently the only one (AFAIK) that will provide a software solution. It’s also a founder of the TCPA movement, so it won’t have to pay licence fees (like they couldn’t affort them!).
Because you know no more than I do and vice versa, I personally believe that DRM with Palladium would only block OSS applications in ways viruses interact with the OS. In other words, Microsoft is only giving to a select few, I doubt any of them would be OSS, privilegde everyone has in Windows world.
Would this meant OpenOffice.org won’t work? Or Mozilla cease to browse? Or Apache combust? Unlikely. It would cause more harm (especially Apache) to Microsoft than to OSS itself.
But as I always said, wait when real information is actually released, specifications, and real-life implementations not 10-page PDFs and press releases. If it is what every die-hard MS critic says it is, which I doubt, trust me, I would move away from Microsoft like a whole lot of people. But if it isn’t, I would stick to Windows, thank you very much.
The catch is, what happends when it happens and people don’t pay?
what happens when the shit hits the fan so to speak?
Microsoft should have the right to do business in a FREE economy, no laws on either side, if there product is crap, use Linux, or hell BUY A Mac. Personally, I love my Powerbook, and I will continue to vote for Republicans and Libertarians all the same.
If Microsoft comes out with pay to play, or pay to use, it WILL backfire, people want to OWN what they buy, not license it.
If you wait long enough, they will fall from themselfs.
John G.
Aye. I doubt people would move to their platform if it ever become like conspiracy theorists seems to believe, anyway. People expect computers to do what they want, after all. However, I *hate* the concept of DRM, that’s why I’m gradually moving from the Windows world.
Yes I knew what he meant but it was fairly obvious that he didn’t. He was just repeating the same tired old lines and he couldn’t even get the name right.
That said, none of us really knows what Palladium is going to be so it’s hard to make any informed comment one way or the other. At the moment its all just vaporware, and like any vaporware it produces a lot of heat but very little light. Not that that stops the OSS geeks from getting their shorts all tangled up about it.
Hehe, okay. Well, it might become more than vaporware because Intel will have TCPA technology in their next CPU. Then again, they shipped the P3 with a unique ID and it was never really used… I think I used it once with a promo CD from Intel.
First off Teddie Roosevelt allowed more monopolies then he eliminated. There were more monopolies when he left office then when he entered. Yes thats right he not only allowed many to continue he helped create more then he destroyed.
Secondly anti-trust laws were around since before 1900 (1870 or 1880s I believe).
And lastly the reason most states pulled it was because the voters in those states demanded it. Here in Minnesota the country’s largest voters group (over 300,000 members) repeatedly asked the state attorney general to stop the case. When a new ag came into office he did. Final cost to tax payers was a couple of million dollars. The worst part was that there was no real goal. Nationally tens of millions of dollars were spent on a case whose sole purpose was to get microsoft to say I’m sorry. Great use of tax dollars.
canada did win is fight against compensatory tax on lumber sale to the US (US gov was making more money on that wood with tax that all those brave guy that cut their wood to live!).
thing is, canada fighted a wrong fight. Canada spend many time more on M$ stuff than it make with all the wood it produce in all province added together !!
It’s like that in many country, they just don’t see it. Having the US gov backing M$ practice is like openly promoting steel dumping. the Mondial Organisation of Commerce should enter the debate.
Is that so much fun to buy M$ product? And i don’t want anybody telling me that Windows is better now (because it’s not, new fix don’t overcome new bug), are we all forgeting all the added time pass to reinstall windows or the insane amount of work lost in BSOD?
M$ in a serious world would no longuer exist. No need for special law to kill them, just force them to do a recall on their shitty product of late 80’s and all 90’s. That alone will kill them and remove any need for lawyer and judge.
well if Massachusetts is the only state still trying a holdout..You just have to wonder which software company in that state is against MS thats urging the attorney general to keep stickin it to em….read beween the lines and come to a conclusion..
AlienSoldier, what the hell has Canadian lumber got to do with anything?
Is that so much fun to buy M$ product?
I don’t know that buying any software is “fun”. Sometimes it’s a necessity, sometimes it comes down to personal choice. Whatever floats your boat.
And i don’t want anybody telling me that Windows is better now (because it’s not, new fix don’t overcome new bug), are we all forgeting all the added time pass to reinstall windows or the insane amount of work lost in BSOD?
In the roughly one and a half years that I’ve had XP I’ve yet to see one BSOD or reinstall. Neither have I heard anything similar from friends, colleagues relatives etc. I’d say that constitutes “better”. I think the instability argument is getting a bit old now.
…just force them to do a recall on their shitty product of late 80’s and all 90’s. That alone will kill them and remove any need for lawyer and judge.
What, recall DOS 6.2 and Windows 3.1? Win 95? Wow, that’s going a bit overboard isn’t it?
“If you wait long enough, they will fall from themselfs.”
This is true and the free market is already finding its way around MS via open source. I do believe that what MASS is doing is the proper thing though simply as a matter of principle. The free market is powerful but even its impact is not necessarily quick. In the interim a monopolist can do a bit of damage as microsoft has done.
Competing is all well and good but there are certain lines one should not cross. MS has crossed them as have Boeing, Nokia, ERicsson, Airbus, etc. Competition is good but enforcing ethics is also important which is why MASS’ stance is welcomed. The complete lack of basic ethics in business is a cancer. Enron, Worldcom, swiss bankers, etc are all examples of where that leads. What you can get away with is not necessarily right or good. There is a difference between competition and sick behavior. I support competition not the latter.
La Grande is very different from palladium, from what the masses know. La Grande is pretty much an optional implementation of TCPA. There is absolutely nothing wrong with TCPA, and heck, it isn’t control by either Microsoft and Intel. La Grande, from what the rest of the world know, is similar to IBM’s implementation of TCPA on their computers. Nothing really compatible with conspiracy theorist.
The free market is powerful but even its impact is not necessarily quick. In the interim a monopolist can do a bit of damage as microsoft has done.
However a free market solution ensures that in the end, it is the consumers that wins. A quick-fix solution where Microsoft is forced to license their software to be ported to platforms it doesn’t want to support, make every component of Windows uninstallable, etc. would only serve to destroy more competition than make them.
Sure, it would be nice, having Red Hat have their own version of Office running on Red Hat 9.0. But then again, wouldn’t Sun be hurted by all these? Is it worth it? In the long run, it isn’t. The best solution is not make Microsoft more competitive, but allow competition to become more competitive. And that happens in the free market world.
Microsoft needs to be prevented from incorporating
internet explorer in the OS.
They need to be obliged to use a standard version of Java.
They need to pay millions for the Smartphone system which they stole from Texas instrument.(BTW that thing sucks)
and they need to release a version of Access for the Mac,
or give the source code and let Apple do it.
Ultimately they need to be prevented for OEM system with computers, so people will have to choose an OS when they buy their machine.
I want my money Back…
La Grande is very different from palladium, from what the masses know. La Grande is pretty much an optional implementation of TCPA.
…and so will be the Palladium. AFAIK, you’ll be able to disable it if you want. Some programs will just refuse to work on an untrusted environment.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with TCPA, and heck, it isn’t control by either Microsoft and Intel.
Really?
The Trusted Computing Platform Alliance, or TCPA, was formed by Compaq, HP, IBM, Intel and Microsoft.
Source: http://www.trustedcomputing.org/tcpaasp4/index.asp
I guess they have control if they founded the organisation.
La Grande, from what the rest of the world know, is similar to IBM’s implementation of TCPA on their computers. Nothing really compatible with conspiracy theorist.
Well, both achieve the same goal: providing a secure environment that could be misused by corporations. So, yeah, it’s still compatible with them!
AFA Anti-Truat laws go, I was guessing.
AFA TR goes, so frigen what if there were more monopolies (over what I would like to know….horse whips?) since beeing a monopoly is not illegal, but not behaving when you are a monopoly is illegal.
you are putting a bad spin on a great president…why? because he was a Republican?
A quote from the article:
“It doesn’t make any sense whatsoever to be in the
Microsoft-bashing camp,” said Avner Schneur, chief executive
of Burlington-based Emptoris Inc., a company that deploys
its Web-based software on a Microsoft platform.
I have a tremendous amount of distaste for the ignorance contained in that statement. Fsck Avner Schneur.
Money can buy anything even a judges decision.
“What, recall DOS 6.2 and Windows 3.1? Win 95? Wow, that’s going a bit overboard isn’t it?”
no it’s not. car industry is forced to do it, children toy industry also (and every thing related to children), food industry bla bla bla and so on. And no, software is no different (the PLC industry is an exemple and explain the awsome reliability, game console is another). All those accepting buggy product should watch http://us.imdb.com/Title?0094602 over and over
I don’t say that app that crashed was M$ fault, app that crashed by M$ and the OS by itself without anything installed is. Especially when it came with a pre-installed windows and M$ did have contract and tie with those hardware maker (not just no name manufacturer doing very non-standart stuff).
and about the lumber, it’s all commerce stuff, not my problem if you don’t know about that stuff, it’s just the reason why everybody hate US right now (by US we all refer to the gov/industrial/lobby etc.., not the population of course)
Obviously I’ve paid the price by not inserting my comments between <sarcasm> tags.
Unless of course you really are serious that “recalling” products like DOS or Win3.1, products which incidentally MS neither produces nor supports any more, is going to make a scrap of difference. There’s this little thing called Windows XP you might want to take a look at.
I don’t say that app that crashed was M$ fault, app that crashed by M$ and the OS by itself without anything installed is.
You missed my point completely didn’t you?
Especially when it came with a pre-installed windows and M$ did have contract and tie with those hardware maker (not just no name manufacturer doing very non-standart stuff).
So by this logic if your new car won’t start in the morning it must be the fault of the company that made the gas. Sometimes it is, but most times its because you have bought a lemon.
I know a lot about anti-trust and “commerce stuff”. One of the things I do know is that anti-trust actions differ so much and are prosecuted on such narrow grounds that it’s functionally impossible to draw parallels between any two, evn if they concern the same commercial sector. Thus there is little that is relevant between the current action against MS and say the action IBM faced. There’s nothing that is relevant to Canadian lumber, or the other amateur analyst’s favorite whipping boy, Standard Oil. They’re all just actions that fall under a rather broad heading of anti-trust.
I happen to think the reason everyone else hates the US right now has more to do with bombing innocent Iraqi children back to the Stone Age on some flimsy pretext that is rapidly turning into a lie, rather than the fact the MS got away with one.