In this DesktopLinux.com interview by Jill Ratkevic, NeTraverse’s CEO Jim Curtin explains how Win4Lin 4.0 helps move Windows users to Desktop Linux. Curtin also offers his view on why IT managers should use migration strategies in a move to Linux, examine the value proposition of Linux, and discusses what the future holds for the desktop. OSNews featured a review of Win4Lin 4.0 last year.
NeTraverse: Moving Windows Users to Desktop Linux
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Eugenia Loli
Ex-programmer, ex-editor in chief at OSNews.com, now a visual artist/filmmaker.
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What’s the point in running windows inside linux?
I can understand why people want to run windows apps in linux, but why windows? It’s even got to be 98/ME/… versions.
Now all they’re doing is try to make an old version of windows run on top of linux, but they’ll even make it more crappy by having trouble with fonts, directx and whatever.
some of these people just nead to reformat their hard drive and install xp, they’ll save a lot of time.
It’s too bad that the interviewer didn’t ask when Win4Lin will be able to run WinXP or Win 2000 OS’s. Currently Win4Lin can only run Win 9X based OS and is not yet able to run NT-based OS’s.
There is a good reason. People might need to run a Windows application that does not run with WINE or that is simply too slow for VMWare or Bochs. Win4Lin offers BETTER compatibility than WINE, while it is FASTER than Vmware and Bochs. So, for professionals who need a specific app to run and do their jobs, Win4Lin is a perfect solution. The primary market for Win4Lin is workstation/corporate people, not Joe Schmoe.
Pros:
1. Extremely fast. There is no booting! Just click and 2 seconds later win98 is ready…
2. Well, it’s purpose… Enables me to run loads of software.
3. Cheaper than VMWare. Xandros folks can get it for just 59 bucks, I think.
4. Easy to install. No-brainer here. Everything worked right for me, even networking; VMWare was hard for me here. Another big plus for Xandros, the default kernel works perfectly with Win4lin!
Cons:
1. Lot of problems in specific areas, such as directx. Even has problems with sound recording etc. There’s no way I can still run Cool Edit Pro in Linux
[It worked very slowly in VMWare, but does not even start in Win4lin]
2. Runs only Win9x. Aw, c’mon, how long are you going to have win9x around? The latest apps won’t even run on it!
3. I still feel that it’s expensive. 80-90 bucks? What the heck?
Read my review which I link and its comments. I explain there why Win4Lin CAN NOT run NT-based OSes. Win4Lin is nothing but an emulated DOS which loads Windows on top of it (and this is why it is faster than emulators like Bochs or runtime engines like VMWare) with a few more tricks. But the trick doesn’t work with NT-based OSes, because simply, these OSes are NOT based on DOS anymore. So, Win4Lin is only viable for Win9x/ME and it will stay that way.
Some people have said running Windows apps in Linux is not a good idea because it discourages native apps as alternatives, and I happen to agree with them. I think a better idea would be to concentrate on native apps that support Windows file formats.
As far as Win4Lin, the lack of (decent?) DirectX support pretty much nullifies any reason why I would have to use it in the first place.
If you’re going to spend this kind of money on an emulation of Windows on an x86 platform, why not just partition your hard drive and install the REAL Windows!? You could easily buy Windows 2000 for that kind of money which runs all of this software _and_ NT-based software! Either that or buy Windows 98, it’s cheaper than this piece of software.
>the lack of (decent?) DirectX support
There is no support for DX or DDraw, not even on 2D stuff. Which also means that support for Divx, media players and anything that might be using overlays, won’t work either. Only plain GDI apps work (fortunately, Apple’s QuickTime works with the slower but more compatible GDI)
>get real windows
i will have to agree with that, the price is steep for Win4Lin.
I don’t see the fact that it doesn’t run Win2000/XP as a big deal. I don’t run Win4Lin for Windows, I run it for the apps that happen to run on Windows, and all major apps still support Win98/Me. I’ve been using it and Win98 in Red Hat 8 for about four months now and it’s sweet. If you want to run Win2000 or XP, run Win2000 or XP on a separate partition and you can have your precious windows eXPerience. If you just want Windows to be a shelf for your can’t-live-without apps like Office XP and Photoshop and IE6 and Access databases in Linux, Win4lin+Win98 is perfect. By the time major applications are ONLY supporting the NT kernel, the Linux alternatives like Gimp and Open Office and Mozilla/Konq will be a lot more mature than they are now and products like Win4lin/Crossover won’t be necessary.
(P.S. Crossover can’t yet do IE6 or Office XP or Photoshop, so there are three good reasons right there for using Win4lin.)
Windows media player doesn’t work on win4lin at all (that’s kind of a feature, though 🙂 ) and QuickTime doesn’t work well, but RealOne works perfectly for playing all the video formats I’ve tried in Win4lin.
Win4lin enables corporations to migrate even if some applications are not available for Linux. However, migration makes sense only if those applications are used by a few employees. If they are used by many you might be right that it would be cheaper to buy Windows.
Windows media player doesn’t work on win4lin at all (that’s kind of a feature, though 🙂 ) and QuickTime doesn’t work well, but RealOne works perfectly for playing all the video formats I’ve tried in Win4lin.
The question is though… why would you want to? For playing media there are native Linux solutions to all of those – Real has a Linux player of course, but (with the right DLLs) Xine and MPlayer will play back Quicktime, Real and Windows Media clips just fine, all from one interface.
Well, if I were going to run Windows in Linux, I’d much rather do it with 2k/XP. Why? Because Windows versions based on the NT kernel are about 10x more stable than those based on the 9x kernel. Of course, this may not be an issue, depending on what kind of apps you’re running.
Also ..
you’re going to spend this kind of money on an emulation of Windows on an x86 platform, why not just partition your hard drive and install the REAL Windows!?
Yes, I agree. If Linux is TRULY as ready as people say it is and if its apps are really up to snuff, there should not be any need whatsoever for Windows once you make the jump. Of course, we all know that’s not the case, which is why I think that running Windows inside of Linux for Windows compatability is just silly.
For playing media there are native Linux solutions to all of those – Real has a Linux player of course, but (with the right DLLs) Xine and MPlayer will play back Quicktime, Real and Windows Media clips just fine, all from one interface.
Well, how well does Linux handle Divx files, with all the funky codecs like Indeo, SMR, etc? Also, isn’t there one codec inparticular in Quicktime that Linux has trouble with?
Well, how well does Linux handle Divx files, with all the funky codecs like Indeo, SMR, etc?
Pretty much perfectly. You need some Windows DLLs to handle the more obscure AVI codecs (all the common ones: DivX variants, MPEG1/2/4 and WMV7/8 have fully-native open-source codecs) that haven’t yet been reverse-engineered, you dump them into /usr/lib/win32 and both MPlayer and Xine will pick them up and use them.
Also, isn’t there one codec inparticular in Quicktime that Linux has trouble with?
Not any more. Sorenson v1 has a fully-native codec and Xine and MPlayer will both use Windows QuickTime DLLs to show the more recent Sorenson v3. The QDesign Music codecs that are common in QuickTime files are also supported by using the Windows DLLs. I can play all the trailers and adverts off Apple’s site just fine.
Win4Lin and vmware are increadibly useful for development.
Im using *nix serverside on windows client side, and its just a 100x more efficent and usefull to not have to reboot my box
every five minutes to test a revision. Also its a pain in the arse to use a windows machine along side a *nix machine.
Thiers other reasons why i use them ( and their are lots of other uses outside my specific domain )
I find Windows 98 under Win4lin to be remarkably stable…much more stable than Windows 98 by itself. I’m sure this is due to the fact that Win4lin turns Win98 into just a shelf for running applications, it doesn’t allow it to control any hardware on its own. Windows 98 BSOD’d on me once so far, and it was pretty cool to see a BSOD contained within its own window. Shut down win4lin and restarted and was back in Win98 in two seconds or less.
I must say this is not true in my experience for the 5.0
version I have running on a Mandrake 9.0 dual coppermine
box fully functional and without noticeable bugs or slow downs so far.
Too bad this is preventing me from learning the GIMP.
Okay, why support Windows NT: For future’s sake. Do you seriously consider in 5-6 years time anyone would have any remote support for Windows 9x for their latest applications? I doubt it. That’s why starting now to have support for NT is extremely essential – and I’m quite sure they are doing just that right now.
And to Darius, Win4Lin is pretty much unaffected by Windows 9x stability (or lack of thereof). This is because they pretty much hacked around Windows to run on Linux and use its services (including and especially with the memory management). That’s also why some people even goes as far to say that Win4Lin is faster than Windows standalone… but I can’t attest to that.
As for not wasting money and using Windows totally, I disagree. If you are going to migrate to Linux, you are far better off not doing it cold turkey. You must remember, even if you spent money retraining, employees don’t catch on too fast. Meanwhile Win4Lin is pretty much a one-time payment. You can use Microsoft’s Site Licensing for Windows upgrades if you like.
Besides, porting Win4Lin to NT isn’t the only thing I want. Another is to run applications rootless. Meaning there won’t be a window where Windows runs within it and all the applications. Sure, there should be an option, but I would much prefer having Windows applications run like Classic applications on OS X. I heard it is hard to do so, though.
DirectX support. Please!
Well, how well does Linux handle Divx files, with all the funky codecs like Indeo, SMR, etc? Also, isn’t there one codec inparticular in Quicktime that Linux has trouble with?
Uncredibly, it’s easier than Windows. Mplayer has all codecs I could ever need and more.
Recent i’ve got a linux suse 8.1,that is the best OS i’ve
ever seen,but i have a problem to configure my modem(it is
internal Lucent 56K modem)seems that suse is dont see it.
Does anybody can help me with that.O,and your site is great.