Special Offer: 50% Extra Free. I hope you have your tea/coffee cup primed for this one-and-a-half hour edition of the show! We cover a lot of ground (and everything in between) on the Windows 7 RC, the Kindle DX (is that like the Nathan TX?), application and OS updates and finally what would we change about the Mac Pro and Mac OS X.
Here’s how the audio file breaks down:
| 0:00:30 | Intro |
|---|---|
| 0:04:11 | “Windows 7 RC”- article |
| 0:12:15 | “Kindle DX” – article |
| 0:27:57 | “Updates” – article |
| 0:55:30 | “Mac Pro, Mac OS X” – article |
| 1:26:05 | Meta |
| 1:28:24 | (Total Time) |
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what about us non english speakers?
is there any translation or is everybody ultra-super-mega-lazy lately?
Not to be rude, but you could learn the international language of trade, commerce and internet discussion: English. Its a beautifully bastardised language but I don’t think it is untoward that you take some time and learn it.
How many languages do you want it translated into? Why do you expect that either Thom or Kroc go out their way to learn a whole slew of languages simply to service a group of people who are too lazy to learn the lingua franca of the internet. You do realise that neither Thom or Kroc get paid for this – they do it for the love of technology; how about showing these two some respect instead of trashing what they contribute.
I know I’ll be marked down to oblivion but I’d hardly say that advocating English as the lingua franca of the internet as tantamount to imposing a culture. 25% of English is actually English in origin, the rest is a mish-mash of other languages; it is truly the international language that takes the best from other languages, tweaks it, and you end up with a unique implementation of it. Call it the Linux of the language world if you wish
Edited 2009-05-11 02:51 UTC
Well said, would mod up, but for some reason it says ive modded you recently and cant anymore (said that the last several times I tried with various people as well, even though I haven’t modded them in days/weeks). Maybe a glichy glich?
I voted you up, although I disagree with some of your arguments. (Note a conflict of interest: my mother tongue is Dutch, and I also understand German.)
English was some ugly mixture between German languages (Anglo-Saxon, some Frisian, the word “English” is derived from “Anglish” or something like that, the language of the Angles from Denmark) and Latin (French). It has resulted in a simplified grammar, but a huge vocabulary, and the pronunciation is very hard to learn because no consistent spelling-to-sound does exist.
Modern English is even worse, partly because English writers from the UK and the US have different opinions about word use and spelling.
Thankfully, I am Dutch so learning English is not very hard. The similarities are big enough to make the endeavor worthwhile. But I regret those living in Africa, China, and other countries who will suffer from the cultural bias imposed by English.
The international scientific language was, for a long time, Latin. It probably is far better fitted for scientific use because its grammar is much richer.
It would take much less time to learn Interlingua or some other constructed language.
So, I agree with you that one should learn English. But the fact that English is the international language of today is not something to be very happy about.
True, but at this point it’s not worth being unhappy about either. Like it or not, it is a fact, and not something that can be changed by any means other than a natural shift in culture which takes hundreds of years at a minimum to happen.
As for transcribing the podcast episodes… it would be a long, thankless, and tedious job. I know because I’ve done it before, still do it on occasion as it does pay relatively well when you consider how little actual thought is needed to accomplish it. Not that the pay would be good for doing the osnews podcast of course, and I agree with other commenters here that a podcast is meant to be listened to. If you want to read, there’s all the articles and comments right here for that.
Why shouldn’t one be happy about it? if you spent a little time learning it – it is a beautifully expressive and innovative language. Rather than a language that is controlled and standardised by some self appointed ‘language nazi’s’, it is the language of the people, by the people.
There are 660,000 words; numerous words that are subtle nuances that express in the slightest and minute details as to the happiness or sadness of a person. The creation of new words because there is a need, someone or a community creates a word, it travels and is adopted. Compare that to the paranoia of the French who couldn’t stand the very idea of ’email’ and insist on a Francophone word which translates into electronic courier.
As the world becomes more interconnection, more words from other languages will come into common use within English; there are now local variations, colloquialisms, regionalised pronunciations and expressions – I for one love the direction English is taking, it is evolving, adapting and incorporating; something that the languages of the past failed to do because of ‘paranoia’ over ‘keeping it pure’ – xenophobia in the form of ‘language protection’ if you will.
In English, I am unable to express various feelings, concepts, and ideas, because there are words in Dutch that do not have equivalents in English. Since my language is used by too few people, we exert no influence over English, as such, these words will not find their way into the English language.
In other words, it makes perfect sense to have language protectionism, because valuable assets are lost. Language is not just a way to express yourself; it’s got thousands of years of culture coded into it, and the culture coded into Dutch is not the one coded into English, nor will it ever be.
To me, English is easy to learn, but also extremely crude and limited in its expression value. It’s got nothing of the nuances of esp. German and French.
Edited 2009-05-11 16:01 UTC
Shadenfraud (German in origin) has made its way into the English language – what words could you possibly think of which don’t have English equivalents?
Do you see us ‘evil anglo saxons’ purging the hundreds of thousands of foreign words in the English language? of course not! English is like a giant orgy – the more the merrier!
Yes, that is very nice – but give examples.
Edited 2009-05-11 16:18 UTC
Mein gute Freund, Shadenfreude kommt aus Deutch, nicht aus Holländisch. Schadenfreude is a German word, not a Dutch one. How on earth am I supposed to discuss the intricacies of language with someone so ignorant on the subject?
It’s not just about words, it’s about concepts, ideas, and context. I study language, so I happen to know a thing or two about this. Not only are there god knows how many words in Dutch (not German, Kaiwai, but DUTCH) without equivalents in other languages, there are also words that while having a direct translation, lack the proper context. Sure, you could translate vrijmarkt as free market, but in English you’ll lack the entire context: “free market” in English has nothing to do with “vrijmarkt” in Dutch.
Language is like filesystems, and *international* English is the FAT32 of the linguistic world. NTFS, HFS+, BFS, ReiserFS are all much better compared tp FAT32, but the advantage FAT32 has is that every operating system can read it. However, that doesn’t make it a good filesystem.
Kaiwai, you obviously only speak English, so you have NO experience on this subject WHATSOEVER. How can you say that there’s an English equiv. of every Dutch word, if you don’t even speak one word Dutch? Heck, you don;t even know the difference between Dutch and German!
Edited 2009-05-11 16:31 UTC
How can one have a discussion with someone who is hell bent on abusing the poster?
You’re referring the cultural baggage that comes with a particular concept – then the baggage within English is going to vary according to the individual’s cultural background. Regarding vrijmarkt, I looked it up and it could either be considered a ‘Flea Market’ or a ‘White Elephant Sale’ or a ‘Jumble Sale’.
Btw, the use of vrijmarkt is the name of an event, a proper noun, not a generalised concept – so it can’t be translated; just as the name TikkiTikkiTemboNoSaRemboChariBariRuchiPipPeriPembo can’t be translated because it isn’t a generalised concept.
Depends on what you’re trying to achieve.
Excuse me – more accusations and no evidence to back them up. Where did I say that Dutch and German were one in the same?
And there’s the ignorance again.
Flea market doesn’t cut it AT ALL. A flea market is a “vlooienmarkt” in Dutch, which is an entirely different concept than vrijmarkt. Jumbosale is something different completely as well.
And even more ignorance. Vrijmarkt is BOTH the name of an event, as well as a generalised term. you have De Vrijmarkt, which refers to any specific vrijmarkt, or een vrijmarkt, which refers to a vrijmarkt.
I don’t blame you for the ignorance though – you have to have a knowledge on Dutch and our culture to properly understand the concept, which you clearly do not have – in the same way that I probably don’t have such knowledge about New Zealand. The difference is that I’m educated enough in linguistics (as I said, I study it) enough to realise that “looking up a word” is not the same as “understanding a word”.
I said that a lot of Dutch words have no equivalent in English, and that it being too small a language means we can’t influence English either. Then you came up with “schadenfreude”, a German word, as an example to illustrate that Dutch words DO get into English.
Look, Kaiwai, I don’t blame you for not understanding the importance of language preservation. You grew up in a world with only English, and that’s the only language you speak. This means you simply cannot grasp just how important different languages are, and just how much your understanding and view upon the world change as you learn more and more languages.
You’re the Windows-only guy of the language world, Kaiwai. Just like the long-time Windows-user-by-default doesn’t know anything about alternatives, you’re an English-user-by-default with no understanding of other languages.
I’ve spent my entire life acquiring knowledge of different languages, because I’ve had friends who cannot speak Dutch since before I can even remember. I speak, read, and understand Dutch, English, and German. I can understand French (if spoken slowly), and can read bits of it as well. Thanks to my Classical education, I have basic proficiency in Latin and ancient Greek, meaning I also have a very basic understanding of Italian and Spanish (and to a lesser degree, Portuguese). I also have an extremely basic knowledge of Scottish Gaelic (to be continued). In addition, I study languages in general at university, so don’t come on over with your monolingual superiority bullshit. It’s arrogant, and without any merit, especially coming from someone who doesn’t speak any other language than English, and who obviously knows fcuk-all about linguistics.
Go visit the world outside of your English-speaking bubble, and a world of meaning will open up to you that you can’t even begin to fathom.
Woe. Nevermind the fact we’re way, way, way off topic here… but Thom, I have to ask something here. For background, my native language is English (in particular the crazy bastardized version you call American English) but I also speak pretty decent German, so I’m not an English only guy, and I get what you mean concerning literal translations often missing the actual concept embodied by native speakers of that language. Note, however, that it doesn’t have the same context outside of your culture, so the literal translation is correct on the linguistic level but not on the cultural level.
However, one has to wonder sometimes… should we work to preserve cultural differences and language purisms, or should we let cultures and languages just take their natural course? After all, the world evolves, we evolve… should not our languages do the same? Just because it’s been a certain way for a long time doesn’t necessarily mean it’s a good way–it may be the best way to those who are familiar with it, but that’s human nature at work. We like the comfortable.
So, the question: Should cultural diversity be preserved or should we simply let it go as it will? I’m of the latter opinion, because I feel that our various cultural and language differences only serve to divide us, the human race, at a time when we desperately need to be united as a people. Let cultural evolution take its course and bring us to that point… assuming, of course, some fanatical idiot doesn’t press the big red button. Preserve works, yes, but do not hold to cultural “purisms.” Those purisms came from somewhere, and I’d bet it was the culture before yours, and before mine, and before everyone’s. If everyone insists on purism, culture stagnates.
Obviously
. I’m not a purist by any stretch of the imagination – quite the contrary actually. I really don’t like language purism, as language is, by definition, not pure.
Sorry Thom, I didn’t get the impression you were a purist per se but that you did think some efforts of linguistic purism preservations were acceptable, even desirable.
but thats thousands of years of evolution und mixing with other languages
language protectionism only hinders evolution
just imagine if you would have to talk like people 400 years ago
just horrible…
———–edit———–
just finished the webcast
and after all the prais for the mac-pro i have to post this:
http://temp.funtech.org/DECraiser.jpg
state of the art anno 1996
Edited 2009-05-11 20:30 UTC
Awesomesauce, thanks! Now why the crap didn’t this become standard??
When I read this, I knew there would be a jab at the French coming soon. I wasn’t disappointed. For some reason, though they aren’t the only “language nazis” of the world (have a look at Greece, Finland, Iceland, Japan or Quebec), they’re the ones systematically taken as examples.
And it is a bad example. The French accept foreign words in their language. They use “mail”, “e-mail”, or “email” when speaking or writing. They use “spam”, and a lot of other words, mainly from english. Some are frenchified, most are used “as is”. Those words are in french dictionnaries.
The venerable Académie Française, that most French would consider as a retirement house for mostly unreadable unknown writers (Maurice Druon, who recently passed away, being one exception), seems to have more importance in the english-speaking world than it has in France or the french-speaking world, whre generally no one bothers with its works. French, the language, isn’t cast in stone by anybody, and, like any other language in the world, it evolves, accept cross-pollination, etc.. As a matter f fact, the Académie, very often, just follow the usage. When it tries to “impose” (it has no way to impose anything) a word, it generally doesn’t work (as I said, the French still don’t use courriel, and prefer mail).
Btw, the Académie Française accepts foreigners. The first was an American (readable, not unknown).
Technically, I could translate it all into Dutch and German, and do funny voices to imitate Kroc’s.
Practically, that ain’t gonna happen
.
I would like it translated into Klingon, Latin and esperanto.
ps: I was kidding about the esperanto.
Being British, unfortunately I think I’d come out more like this in German http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1k7U-_tJVmw
You seem well-versed in the english written language. What’s the problem?
I think the problem is that he meant “transcription” instead of “translation”.
Written english is quite standard and easy to catch for non-native speakers, but I can’t say the same about the ton of different accents of the web
Apologies, it took 5 hours to produce this episode due to the length of the show and various wait times for rendering / uploading &c. Quite simply, I don’t have enough time to transcribe the show, I produce it on my day off as it is. Any transcription would have to be done by another community user, and I would think it a long, tedious and thankless job.
Transcribing is part of my work at university, so no, I’m not doing it either. It’s one of the most boring and tedious jobs I know.
The idea behind a podcast is to listen to it.
Speak English or Die
I just realised here the podcast seems to stop way too soon… It’s 06:00 here right now and I wasn’t planning on getting out of bed just now…
Oh well. Let me look into this.
EDIT: Hhhmz, my desktop downloads the full thing, but rather slowly… Hm.
EDIT 2: If you happen to run into an issue where the file isn’t 40MB (but something like 5MB or something), empty your browser’s cache. Did the trick for me.
Edited 2009-05-11 04:25 UTC
I agree, Mac Pro hardware is really nice. It’s a workstation, Sun (used to ?) make(s) PC-workstations as well. They were the same kind of quality.
http://www.sun.com/desktop/index.jsp
In my limited experience of Mac OS X the finder has been the worst part of the experience:
1. Why does it pause often?
2. Is the replacing instead of merging folders sorted?
Why do threads like this exist?
http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=1900328&tstart=0
http://www.aquataskforce.com/view/54
Edited 2009-05-11 19:40 UTC