Submitted by Here is an interesting discussion of the changes KDE 4.x (via Mandriva Linux 2009 pre-releases) brings to desktop interaction. The article argues that KDE 4 might very well be the next big thing in computing, as it finally tries to steer away from the Xerox desktop metaphor we’ve all been using since the glory days of disco. While I personally don’t really believe KDE 4.x to be revolutionary (I see it more as evolution with pepper in its butt), the article details many of the new things in KDE 4.x, and might make the lives of those first confronted with the new desktop just that little bit easier.
What a lousy article!
He starts by explaining how KDE4 is such a revolution only to list a handful of features that he prefers over other desktops… none of them revolutionary…
If that was the only thing I read about KDE, it would make me want to stay away from it.
Folder view on the desktop? Windows had that for 10 years already through Active Destop and noone uses it…
OS/2 was more revolutionary that what is described there.
Hopefully KDE4 has more to offer than what is described there.
Saying ‘not revolutionary’ is a very easy to say, but I still see desktops around like the one in the article of Vista, with people getting no help whatsoever from the computer to organise their stuff – which is what computers are intended to be used for.
It might help if you got a clue and understood what Active Desktop actually was. Active Desktop was a means to try and put internet content on your desktop, and in reality, was intended as a conduit to MSN by Microsoft. Nothing more. What it didn’t do was help you organise your desktop content.
I’m also greatly amused that a lot of exceptionally well informed people are comparing this to Windows 3.1. It’s nothing like it, not intended to be like it and the program manager was never intended to be a means for organising files and content. It was merely somewhere to put program icons and launch them. Of course Microsoft could have stopped being lazy and developed the basic idea further, but they didn’t.
In what way, assuming of course you’ve used OS/2?
I totally agree, could OSnews please post less amateur articles in future? If the author reads this, please try harder next time – do actual comparisons and try all the major competitors. Be objective. Check your grammar.
The article also failed to convey to me the benefit of Folderview over a file manager window – if there is any. Lack of having to hold a toggle key to open a folder in a new window? Hardly revolutionary.
Desktop icons have no value – your launchers are much better in a menu or panel where they can’t be obscured, and this also gives you a cleaner working environment. Most desktop environments have offered a way to disable desktop icons for years.
because active desktop, as other microsoft “innovations” where a system drain and gaping security hole.
Im sorry, I won’t fall in that KDE4 hype again.
Make the work first and then talk, and no, folder view and desktop activities are not the next big thing.
Edited 2008-08-13 01:57 UTC
The author is talking about a new way of working with your desktop that all other desktop environments are not capable of.
For example, you can spatially separate files presented on your desktop by functionality and activity. You can make your firefox download to a specific folder and show that folder on your desktop, while keeping the downloads separate from your quick notes, and your quick launchers, and your music, and your videos, etc.
The author also emphasizes an interesting way of working with your desktop, namely, organizing your activities based on the files you work on, which will sort of be possible in KDE 4.2, when you can associate desktop widgets with virtual desktops, so you can constraint all your activities in different virtual desktops.
All of these are innovative and useful, and none of them can be achieved in other desktop environments.
Is not innovation and is not useful, but hey, Don’t stop to be seduced by the hype just for me.
Not innovation? Please enlighten me, which other desktop environment can achieve these?
“Not innovation? Please enlighten me, which other desktop environment can achieve these? “
Windows, OS X, KDE 3, Gnome…to name a few.
OK, these are desktop environments but how do I achieve the example made by the other poster?
I mean, let’s say I declare virtual desktop 2 my graphics manipulation desktop, where GIMP, Inkscape and some other apps pop up whenever (and whereever) I launch them. Now I want to create two views, one showing all XCFs, JPEGs and PNGs scattered over the various projects in my Projects folder (a child of $HOME) and another one showing all SVGs scattered there, too. Added bonus if the view could sort them by project. I also would like to confine these views to virtual desktop 2 and see them nowhere else.
I’ve run and tinkered with many GNU/Linux WMs and DEs and I know my share of MS Windows (2.0 to XP) and Mac OS (7, X), none of them seems to have these capabilities. So, help me please. How do I get my virtual view goodness?
EDIT: Besides that, the article is obviously written by a fan of Mandriva and KDE. I don’t get why he had to make cheap stabs at other software. That’s not helpful.
Edited 2008-08-13 07:21 UTC
Wow. I’ll have to check those desktops out again, because I’ve missed out.
The last I checked none of those desktops helped me to organise the proliferation of desktop icons I have into organisational units that actually reflect my work, and I couldn’t have organisational units on my desktop that gave me a particular view of my files, content or music based on search criteria that I specify, and get to them within a click or two without having to hunt around in the file manager for what I want.
Safari and Firefox on OS X are doing the same. Files are downloaded to the “Download stack” which sits right in your Dock (if you want).
In OS X you can also associate programs to different desktops (you can’t do that with widgets though). I have a Internet desktop (for Safari), a graphics desktop (Photoshop, InDesign etc.), a programming desktop (Coda, Terminal etc.) a music desktop (iTunes), a file managing desktop and a “communications” desktop (Mail, Skype …)
What a painful article…
It’s obviously written by a fanboy who is way too excited about KDE4, claiming every minor change to the traditional desktop to be a computing revolution.
I’ll admit that KDE4 looks neat and looks like it might have some handy tricks up it’s sleeve, but I’m fairly certain it’s not going to go down in history as a revolutionary leap forward with how folks use their computers.
Didn’t anybody notice that the author can’t tell left from right?
“And just what is that almond or kidney shaped thing in the upper left?!”
Uhhh, no. Upper right.
“Right click the desktop and the menu on the right will appear. Click desktop settings.”
Uhhh, no. It is on the left of that very text.
The rest is really just an opinion piece. Nobody can really say that any particular filemanager is the best one ever if they haven’t used every other one for a decent length of time.
Æsthetics are matters of opinion. One man’s meat is another man’s poisson 😉
That depends on how the meat’s distributed.
Thank you, I’ll be here all week.
If you actually look at the screenshots it becomes immediately apparent that this guy is possibly left handed, so that everything seems to be in reverse. I can just about forgive him for that. Some desktops are just plain unforgiving to location changes for left handed people, or those who want their taskbar vertical and you just get used to it ;-). I can forgive him for that, and hope he’ll make an amended draft.
Errrrrm, yer. That’s what most of these articles are when they take you through something.
Who says he hasn’t? At least, you know, he’ taken some time and effort to write and article and do a comparison of them and list the features he likes and thinks put Dolphin ahead.
Thanks for the heads up, Captain Obvious.
Edited 2008-08-13 10:44 UTC
Uh, what are you saying? That everything “is in reverse” for left-handed people? I am left-handed, and no, nothing is “in reverse”. Left is left, right is right, just as for anybody else. But this guy obviously can’t difference between left and right, or it’s just a strange typo, but this doesn’t have to do with left-handiness.
heh – and wait, is Dolphin on the left, or is that Konqueror 😉
I don’t understand the desire to change the desktop.
It’s working just fine.
I don’t know why anybody tries to make anything better. I was just fine reading by candle light, packing water miles from the creek and feeding the mule to pull my cart.
First of all, it’s a matter of oppinion if they make things better… or worse.
And second, i dont see what candle lights and mules have anything to do with it.
The desktop that everyone uses these days can hardly be compared to something from the middle ages.
I’m sorry, apparently you don’t “get” sarcasm and hyperbole.
But in response to your point, just because you believe the desktop metaphor as it is implemented now is perfect doesn’t mean everybody else does. Some people may have ideas about how to make it better, more efficient more intuitive, better organized, etc. So rather than acting like an old coot that thinks everything is perfect the way it is you should understand that there are very good reasons to try and improve the desktop metaphor and it’s current implementations.
Hello, I responded to your sarcasm just as you intended it.
For the rest, we clearly disagree. However i don’t find a need to call you an ‘old coot’ or make your opinion sound old fassion and stupid.
Even if you don’t agree, you don’t have to be so disrespectfull.
But i guess you think that’s oldfassion too :p
Thank you. Bye.
Edited 2008-08-13 16:05 UTC
Sorry Mr. Sensitive
I don’t think he was disrespectfull. His arguments are very valid. If everybody would think like you, “why change anything, everything’s already perfect”, where would this lead? That reminds me of a nice German quote, I hope I can translate it properly:
Where would it lead us, if everybody said “where would it lead us?”, but nobody actually went to look, where it would lead us, if we just went?
I hope my lousy English was enough to create a proper translation 😉
Haha, yeah very good point. This reminds me of a nice German quote, I try to translate it properly:
“Where would it lead us, if everybody said “where would it lead us”, but nobody actually went to look where it would lead us, if we just went?”
Edited 2008-08-14 07:28 UTC
((( In January of this year KDE released KDE 4.0 as a developer release which found it’s way onto many desktops and got roundly condemned by many people. The KDE people are partly to blame for this as they didn’t make it clear enough that the .0 release was what it was and not something you could use well or at all for daily work.
As usual in the FOSS world, people pinned their hearts on their sleeves and ill tempered comments flew on blogs, web sites and elsewhere. Some well informed and others, to be polite, less so ))).
To me KDE people got what they deserved in an open and informative way, hopefully they will learn from the experience…. with all the articles and interviews on how KDE 4 was going to be the most amazing desktop the world had ever seen…. the hype machines went on for around two years, with interviews etc etc…..
“In the case of Microsoft and Apple there’s also the reality of investment”
Just to point out all OSes and all environments have probably invested in their interfaces with time and effort blood n sweat…
“its looked the same regardless of who it came from and works the same with the same advantages and drawbacks.”
Please from your own screen shoots it looks totally the same as 3.5 and gnome
…
“From this stable world has erupted KDE 4.1”
Thats a joke right… 4.0 was stable?? hmm
what is true is if KDE team had released 4.1 as 4.0 back in Jan 2008 and called it a developer release then people would have given it a lot more respect and not been as disappointed.
The plan fact of the matter is the dev team spent a lot of time on the foundations and development which is a good thing…… but forgot the user interface not wanting to tell people to wait another eight or nine months before seeing anything… luckily over this time there were no reasons to move from KDE 3.5x otherwise KDE usage would have taken one huge hit in % and may not of survived…..
My side issue for KDE4.1 release….
———————————
Theres are a few applications I would like to use on windows from KDE 3.5 (been down coLinux path) Konsole would be mighty useful… The current windows installer fails for me probably because I am behind a firewall and proxy but as I don’t have windows out side this environment then testing becomes interesting.
What I probably need is a way to fully download KDE4 for windows and install locally rather then download an installer and fetch other parts, which never get found…
Edited 2008-08-13 09:26 UTC
But I think people really are stuck with their desktop as it is, I mean how many times having people been saying where’s the innovation in Linux desktop?
KDE4 gives new ideas to the desktop, while Windows and OS X are stuck with widgets, KDE4 made the desktop out of widgets in which apps can use plasma.
Semantic desktop anyone?, All apps pickup the same ratings and data from your files across all apps.
ZUI, well this is a different way of using your other desktops, just add as many as you like in a infinite space and use your apps in that space.
Get New Hot Stuff, This was in KDE3 but much more in KDE4 now, get new game themes from the internet in a few clicks. Themes are easy to make and setup as well and put on the internet for people to download.
Folder View, I know alot of people in KDE4 now who use this, Windows may have done this but it was a terrible implementation, it’s no good saying Windows did a feature when it was useless, KDE4 does it much better.
Panel options, This is a totally different way of moving your panels, not seen anything like it, move, remove and add widgets as you like in the panel.
Icons are not icons on the desktop, It’s amazing how many people complained about this simply because they just read that KDE4 had no desktop icons. Thats right, a innovative way, your icons are widgets, desktop icons are do old now it’s about time we did something else with them.
Maybe people dont actually realize it is quiet revolutionary because I dont see any other desktops/OS’s making all work like KDE4 has, more to come as well.
Edited 2008-08-13 10:11 UTC
I certainly would like to know how KDE plama comores with macos x widgets, the dashboard and “Web Clip”
This would have been a better article if the author hadn’t began it by talking about how KDE4 would shift us away from the Xerox PARC paradigm and herald a new era of UI design.
To follow such claims with talk of widgets and how you’ll soon you’ll be able to do stuff in KDE4 that used to be possible in 3.5 is a horrendous anticlimax. Not that KDE4 doesn’t have some potentially nice features, but I see nothing here that represents a fundamental change in the way we interact with computers like he claims.
Sure, it does allow people to group things on their desktop a lot better than before and yes, KDE4 has some nice things going. But it’s still a far cry from “desktop revolution”. It’s STILL just the same old, improved a little, but the idea is still the same. Revolutionizing the desktop metaphor would mean making it something totally different.
I myself would still like to get to try KDE4.2, but those packages aren’t yet available for Mandriva 2008.1, and KDE4.1 was a total disaster for me..When I installed it, it screwed up GNOME (panel, file associations, and all) :/
I didn’t see anything revolutionary.
Hype. It’s the worst thing that has ever existed.