Sun on Wednesday will announce plans for inexpensive desktop computers based on the free Linux operating system in a bid to undermine archrival Microsoft (related article at NYTimes). The OS is based on Red Hat Linux, but with many touches by Sun. Red Hat’s version 8 adds a “personal desktop” option that will “create a system ideal for home or desktop use,” according to the software maker.
Sun to Develop Low-Cost Linux PC
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Eugenia Loli
Ex-programmer, ex-editor in chief at OSNews.com, now a visual artist/filmmaker.
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I want to see what it looks like.
I went to the sun.com site to look for it, and I just closed down the browser when I saw the front page. They have a big picture full of blah-blah corporate people. Not too geeky… They give me the chills…
Yes, that new Sun page is kind of creepy. All of those corporate-looking people pretending to have conversations. Guess that a picture of a buch of Unix admins would not be
as sexy.
Like the old page better.
Too much development time is being spent reinventing the same thing. How many dists do we now have? Each one spends time developing an app for connecting to the printer, for example. A company like Sun should not just base their dist on Redhat. They should somehow partner/join efforts with Redhat and offer the exact same OS. That would mean less confusion for the consumer, and better use of resources. If there are no markets for the linux desktop, nobody is going to make money anyways.
I haven’t seen such a happy, multi-cultural group since a copy of the Watchtower was left on the bus stop bench. I think Sun is using the same design firm.
Uh, archrival?
Okay Eugenia everyone knows they don’t like each other but rivals?
My perspective;
Sun – manufacturer of it’s own 64-bit cpu and enterprise server hardware and high end workstations running it’s own flavor of Unix, well known to charge a lot, but whose products form the backbone of the modern day internet and mission critical enterprise services. Historically, little interest in mass market. Supporter of cross-platform protocols and functionality. Well known for stuff that works reliably.
Microsoft – seller of popular low-end but often adequate desktop “operating system” based on underlying code bought or stolen from other companies who would love to play in the areas Sun does well in. Does a terrific job of convincing technology-challenged managers that it’s products are suitable for these applications. Purveyor of exclusive Microsoft protocols and functionality. Magnificent at marketing.
I could see Sun and Microsoft becoming archrivals in the future but to say they are today would be putting a lot of faith in Microsoft marketing puffery.
> Uh, archrival? Okay Eugenia everyone knows they don’t like each other but rivals?
This is ZDNews text, not mine. It is their text I am quoting and linking.
> Uh, archrival? Okay Eugenia everyone knows they don’t like each other but rivals?
> This is ZDNews text, not mine. It is their text I am quoting and linking.
Eugenia constantly gets yelled at for these types of mistakes, Doesn’t anyone read the articles anymore?
I don’t believe that Sun will make it. It is creating something that will hurt itself later on. Although they deny it, linux is a serious threat to Sun. It is a bigger threat than microsoft I think, because Linux became strong on the server side. Especially with the higher bandwidth, each cheap PC become a more serious threat to Sun.
Imagine PCs slighltly more expensive, but far more reliable than normal PCs, and a high bandwidth between them. The only thing that stops PCs becoming more serious threat to Sun is the reliability of these cheap PCs, but they become more and more reliable.
Sun already has a low-cost Linux PC: the SunBlade 150. http://www.sun.com/desktop/sunblade150/ Only it doesn’t come with GNU/Linux on it.
The article doesn’t specifically say what “cheap commodity parts” these PC’s will be made of. I guess everyone is assuming that Sun will drop the ball and use Intel cpu’s(?).
Sun makes really nice hardware. I’d love to see them embrace GNU/Linux on sparc64.
You call that cheap?
Also (quibble) Why try and build down to a price and then install an Intel chip? (/quibble)
Seems like a case of bad product engineering….
I’d pay a little more for a single user license of Solaris on a separate partition with CDs along with the Sun-RedHat Linux distribution. Also, I hope they do put a SPARC processor in there, otherwise it becomes a lot less interesting.
And about Sun’s new page: at least they aren’t eerily staring at the CAMERA and smiling, making it look like they’re corporate zombie people in suits I can’t afford.
–JM
Looks like Sun is now about to learn the same painful, bitter lesson that SGI had to learn a while back – do NOT even think about trying to compete in the low-margin commodity desktop-PC market against the likes of Dell and HP/Compaq, they will eat you alive. Success in this market is not in your DNA; it is a totally different world than the big-iron Unix landscape you are accustomed to. Better to stay away from it and stick to what you know.
If they were to focus instead on IA64 (rather than IA32) high-performance workstations running Linux (like HP is doing) they might have some hope of success.
that homepage [ http://www.sun.com ] really sucks. I think any tech guy would throw-up after viewing that page.
Now this server company (SUN) is trying to get in on a virtually no-profit business — unless you are dealing in MASS numbers like Dell/HP. This will just suck energy from the company because these low-end, commodity systems gain marketshare not through merit but MARKETING and that costs money. Does SUN really want to spend money on CUSTOMER SERVICE for low/no-profit items??
The goal is to reduce MS marketshare. This tactic though is just going to bleed Sun of money that it should be using on investing in NEW TECHNOLOGIES that are PROFITABLE.
DIVISION OF LABOR. Sun should actually team up with Red Hat and IBM to create a THIRD company that could do this. This third company could get some venture capital as well so that Sun, IBM, Red Hat, et al. aren’t bearing the immediate financial burden. If it succeeds it could also go public.
Commodity-level Linux systems will be incredibly competitive since the software is free and the hardware also highly competitive; SUN should not want to DIRECTLY be a part of this market – instead it should __FOSTER__ it by selling great development tools (Java-based naturally); great applications; investing in companies that provide MS-alternative solutions, etc.
Trying to put low-end commodity user systems into a firm that has a server/Java/tech culture is STUPID.
I think that a BigCo built, configured, and supported Linux workstation can be a Good Thing.
If Sun tweaks their Linux Distro, then that means that they’ll “own” the distro, which means that they should support the distro.
This is important because it helps nip in the bud any potential “Pass the buck” issues for support. If Sun simply drops Red Hat onto a beige PC with a Sun sticker on it, then it would be very easy for them to dump that support into RedHat. However, if they take responsibility for it, then that means you now have a BigCo controlling both the hardware and software of your Linux workstation.
Whether they WILL is another issue entirely, but they should. Sun should be able to adapt their large support organization to this task. And support is always a popular profit center on the corporate ledgers.
Now, as to why Linux over Solaris x86, I think that’s a marketing issue. “Linux is everywhere”, so Linux may be more comfortable for pointy haired PC people than “something proprietary”. PC Magazine and InfoWorld don’t cover Solaris x86. You don’t see a lot of products with “Now for Sx86!” stickers.
So, if you want an x86 based Unix workstation, why not run Linux.
On the brighter side of things, getting these things into the education market can be very interesting. Macintosh is still pretty large in education. Macintosh IS going OS X, so if schools stick with Macs, they’re going to Unix anyway. Now, you have another workstation that will behave well in a school that may already be going to Unix.
So, now in schools, you don’t have Windows or Mac, you have Windows or Unix. And a Sun box fits very nicely into those Unix networks.
Anyway, on the surface it may sound silly, but I think deep down this can be a good thing overall.
Belive me, Sun and Microsoft are arch-rivals. Microsoft has been systematically dismantling Sun’s lucrative workstation and low/mid-end server market for the past few years. It has cost Sun billions of dollars in revenue and lost stock value. Additionally, Microsoft has succeeded in taking much of the wind out of the salis of the Java hype machine by distracting everyone with its own .NET hype machine. Microsoft will not rest until almost every Sun server on the planet has been replaced with a Wintel one, and Sun will continue to do everything it can to try to trip up MS at every turn.
Bayerwerke, you really underestimate Microsoft’s current position in the market and its ambition. Sun is in big trouble to have Microsoft breating down its neck like that on one side, and have Linux stealing all its thunder on the other.
“This is ZDNews text, not mine. It is their text I am quoting and linking.”
Sorry Eugenia. My monitor is fuzzy, resolution too high, and my eyes are burning. I read/skimmed the article but missed the text that you atribute to ZDNews.
Alot of people here are sceptical about whether they can match Dell. Who said they were even going to make their own boxs?
Dell a couple of months ago proclaimed the idea of selling white box’s to smaller resellers. Now, how do we know there isn’t a deal like that between Dell and SUN? SUN is concerntrating on the UNIX/Linux side of the market, meaning that it will not eat into Dells profits, Dell will continue to selling Wintel machines. Dell simply sells a basic machine to SUN, SUN spray paint it purple, slap a logo onto it, and voila, low cost desktop.
Some people seem to miss some of the core points of this;
1) Sun is the only major computer manufacturer who can safely do this, IBM would surely love to have a line of desktop linux machines available, as would Dell probably, but as soon as they would try they know MS would yank the windows license deal chain and they would have to tone it down. Sun is the only major company that can make all the Linux desktops they want without fear since they are at the top of Microsofts shitlist anyway.
2) They most likely dont think they are going to make money from these directly, but you can bet that they will include JavaCard readers to make dropping a Sun server in at the back end would be a no-brainer for a lot of customer. Also Sun would probably sell servers to the desktop buyers with the support deals as channels.
All in all this will be extremely interesting to see, Sun is in no way in as bad shape as some people seem to believe, they can give MS a bit of a scare yet in some areas.
Belive me, Sun and Microsoft are arch-rivals. Microsoft has been systematically dismantling Sun’s lucrative workstation and low/mid-end server market for the past few years. It has cost Sun billions of dollars in revenue and lost stock value. Additionally, Microsoft has succeeded in taking much of the wind out of the salis of the Java hype machine by distracting everyone with its own .NET hype machine. Microsoft will not rest until almost every Sun server on the planet has been replaced with a Wintel one, and Sun will continue to do everything it can to try to trip up MS at every turn.
Bayerwerke, you really underestimate Microsoft’s current position in the market and its ambition. Sun is in big trouble to have Microsoft breating down its neck like that on one side, and have Linux stealing all its thunder on the other.
—
The problem with McNealy is that he is too softy-softy. You need a rotwiler like me to rip Microsoft excutives to threads – in all areas. As for HP, it is nothing more than a Microsoft suck-up, which will eventually head the way of Dell, yet another unimaginative, uninovative company sucking on the Microsoft tit hoping something will come out to them.
SUN still have not pointed out the basic flaws in .NET, they still waste time pissing at Microsoft instead of nailing the CEO of Macromedia, Adobe and other software vendors to the wall and forcing them to port their applications to Solaris. Send them the clear message, join us, or join the grave yard of businesses that got in Microsoft’s way. That is a fact. Look at any company that has tried to create something innovative, then find themselves screwed in 3 years time when Microsoft see’s that as the trendy thing, and co-mingle a product in their OS under the impression they’re giving a “complete user eXPerience”.
Thats a pretty compelling argument for Adobe, Macromedia, and Quark to port their apps to Unix(Linux, Solaris)as many as possible. Microsoft needs as many problems from their perspective as possible in order for them to stay away.
I would love to see a SUN branded Linux. They would be the first major vendor to offer a mainstream distro.
Lets hope the execution is good!
At work I can take an app written on GNU/Linux, put it on an HPUX box, recompile, and my app becomes super-scalable. Most of the time, there is no change in code – things just compile and work they way that they should. It is a pain in the ass to take a Windows app and port it over to Unix.
I imagine this is what Sun also sees – Sun has done a whole lot of work so that you can take an app from Linux and port it right over to Solaris, from including the libraries to pretty good documentation.
Lots of places are already doing this, it is just that most of the places have been unsupported. What Sun is doing is adding that layer of support.
Considering that Adobe already has many of their products ported to UNIX/Motif, all that would be required would be updating them to the current application releases + move from Motif to GTK2 + Gnome 2.0 to top it all off. Macromedia will take longer as they have never produced anything beyond Windows and Mac, however, give then a compelling reason, and people will move.
For example, what is to stop Microsoft from expanding their basic photo editing tool? OEM’s drop Adobe Photopaint OEM edition, they (camera manufacturers) save money, Microsoft’s tools are used, and Adobe is out of pocket. That is how the whole vicious circle works. Apply that to Macromedia Shockwave, whats to stop Microsoft from producing their own varient of Shockwave and call it Foowave? bundle a lite edition with Windows, which suite s 85% of users, then bundle the heavy version with, say, Office and combine it with PowerPoint? No, I don’t have a crystal ball, however, these two examples based on Microsoft’s past behaviour makes it possible.
I only see one culture represented in that picture and that is the western one…
Matthew Gardiner: Dell simply sells a basic machine to SUN, SUN spray paint it purple, slap a logo onto it, and voila, low cost desktop.
Why not cut off Dell, get some Taiwanese or Mainland Chinese to do it for you at a much lower cost? The white box Dell sells is ideal for sales in 50% of the market – white box sales.
tesmako: IBM would surely love to have a line of desktop linux machines available, as would Dell probably, but as soon as they would try they know MS would yank the windows license deal chain and they would have to tone it down.
If DOJ didn’t exist, they would only yank it if IBM and Dell plans to bundle Linux AND Windows on the same machine. This wouldn’t be the case now as Microsoft every move may determine its punishment.
Besides, Dell high end workstations already come with an Linux option. They once had that very same option for low end machines but axed it due to lack of demand.
Another thing to counter is that Sun doesn’t have any brand name in the PC business….
tesmako: All in all this will be extremely interesting to see, Sun is in no way in as bad shape as some people seem to believe, they can give MS a bit of a scare yet in some areas.
The only scares Sun is giving Microsoft is with Solaris 9, Staroffice 6.0 (the most hottest competition with Office since the birth of Office), and Java for the enterprise and embedded markets. Oh and web services and Liberty Alliance. But certainly not with their Linux strategy…
Matthew Gardiner: As for HP, it is nothing more than a Microsoft suck-up, which will eventually head the way of Dell, yet another unimaginative, uninovative company sucking on the Microsoft tit hoping something will come out to them.
LOL, HP is NOT like that (otherwise most of their profit-making business would go *poof*). Just because like Sun, HP doesn’t have any reason to bash microsoft, doesn’t mean HP is controled by Microsoft. If they were, the default OS shipped with PCs to Mainland China and India won’t be Linux…
Matthew Gardiner: Send them the clear message, join us, or join the grave yard of businesses that got in Microsoft’s way.
In what fucking way had Microsoft in any way make plans to compete directly with Adobe nor Macromedia? (Besides, a Solaris 9 port would be as smart as a port to Windows .NET Server… hehehe).
Matthew Gardiner: Look at any company that has tried to create something innovative, then find themselves screwed in 3 years time when Microsoft see’s that as the trendy thing, and co-mingle a product in their OS under the impression they’re giving a “complete user eXPerience”.
(I’m using IE in my answer, other middleware is about the same)
Netscape haven’t made anything that is really really innovative before IE came out. Yeah, it made some nice features (like the stop button, and Bookmarks). But, it was the first retail commercial web browser, and because of that it succeeded as a marketed product because any real competition came (Microsoft).
The co-miggling of IE greatly help more third party companies than harm them. Their development cost and time goes down, the product in many cases better. Yes, Netscape licensed their rendering engine to third parties, but at a price most shareware makers can’t afford. Plus the code is no non-componenized that it would take time to seperate it for development use, and Netscape required the third party to sell a high minimum amount of their software.
Matthew Gardiner: For example, what is to stop Microsoft from expanding their basic photo editing tool? OEM’s drop Adobe Photopaint OEM edition, they (camera manufacturers) save money, Microsoft’s tools are used, and Adobe is out of pocket.
Of course, Photoshop Elements 2 is really for the middle end photographer. And Adobe in no way depends on its sales of sales resulting in the adoption of that software for their financial well being. (Also, I notice more and more cameras stop bundling Adobe’s software…..)
Apply that to Macromedia Shockwave, whats to stop Microsoft from producing their own varient of Shockwave and call it Foowave?
Actually they tried replacing Flash and Shockwave with ActiveX (which is no Flash-clone, by something that replaces some of its needs). Did Flash and Shockwave adoption went down? Nope.
As long Macromedia gives web designers a compeling reason to continue using their product (which they are now) to design their web pages, and in the end use their formats, I see no reason why Microsoft would win. This was the strategy adopted by Real, and until now, it hasn’t be sunked, yet.
Besides, while there isn’t any proof behind this, I remember reading somewhere that Netscape was once offered by Microsoft to license their software for a royalty. They turned it down, and Microsoft went for Mosaic, made their own version. No proof behind this, but this may be the reason….
Anyway, with such close observation by the DOJ and its competitors in how Microsoft so-called “abuse their monopoly”, I see no reason for ANY third party developer to be afraid.
Hey, if you think Mac’s are expensive, you should check these out:
http://store.sun.com/catalog/doc/BrowsePage.jhtml?cid=77642&parentI…
Chris
Those are 64-bit UltraSparc III’s. Copper process CPU. 8 MB external cache. 1 GB main memory. This ain’t like dustin’ crops boy!
All kidding aside, this could be a powerful move for Linux. Imagine, one company ( a large, powerfull one at that), giving you a (hopefully) tricked out, tweaked, performance tuned Linux distro and fully supported hardware.
This is the kind of thing could give Linux a real boost in the corparate Workstation market. If you need evidence, take a listen: The company I work for (a large telcom company in the Southeast US), will not allow any open source software to be used in a production enviroment. If Sun were to jump on Linux, and provide 100% support, I could definitly see corparations jumping on the Linux band wagon…
Personally, I would like them to replace the graphics card in their SUN Blade 150 with something like A Paphilia (Matrox) with 128MB AGP Memory + pump the FSB to 266 + EEC DDR RAM + a 7200rpm hard disk, and it would perform pretty well.
You just spelled out what I was thinking!
And, rajnar, your mentioning of the DOJ is really pathetic.