Submitted by “One result of the US government’s battle with Google over a week’s worth of searches is an increased awareness over the data kept by all of the major search engines. Each time we use Google, Yahoo, Ask Jeeves, or any other search engine, there’s a record created of the search term used along with our IP address. All of the reputable search portals keep the data private. However, if someone armed with a subpoena wants to find out what you’ve been searching for, there is not a whole lot you can do to stop them.”
Sure you can look at my search records, but what if I search for pr0n or poon or something similar? Along with my legitimate searches you will have a lot of junk 😉
What’s next? going to the library’s card catalog to see what books I checked out?
That’s been tried actually, and librarians refused IIRC. There was even a court case or something wasn’t there? I think in the end they can now check your library checkouts.
The problem is when they use things like you searching for how to make a dirty bomb (which you did because you were curious) and use it against you in a kangaroo court.
Remember that McCarthy idiot? Yea, all those “red communists” they went after…
“What’s next? going to the library’s card catalog to see what books I checked out?”
Excuse me– The Govt is ALREADY doing that, under the execrable, so-called USA Patriot Act. You should spend some time away from OSNews and head over to DailyKos.com or EFF.org to track all the scummy stuff our aleeged “leaders” are up to.
Questions to techies: exactly how much is revealed 1) by your IP address. 2) Does your browser reveal what CPU it is browsing from? 3) what are the easy “anonymizer” options?
Questions to techies: exactly how much is revealed 1) by your IP address
Well, if you’re a home user, your IP address could point all the way back to your home. If you’re searching in work or college then it’d be nearly impossible to track your searches back to you.
Does your browser reveal what CPU it is browsing from?
I think it does. If you’re using PowerPC, Firefox, IE and Safari tell your CPU.
what are the easy “anonymizer” options?
You could use a proxy server so it looks like your browsing from another place. I think this is the tool that crackers use to cover up their tracks.
IMHO, not only is this shady, but I don’t think getting your search queries would be very helpful in ‘the fight against terrorism’. Have they all forgotten that the main reason why they lacked intelligence for the 9/11 attack wasn’t because they lacked electronic surveillance, it was that they lacked real human intelligence, having real people on the ground spying on supposed terrorists. This is all just a smoke screen anyway. They use these new laws to fight the drugs trade and God knows what else.
“Does your browser reveal what CPU it is browsing from?
I think it does. If you’re using PowerPC, Firefox, IE and Safari tell your CPU. ”
But not on Intel?
“This is all just a smoke screen anyway. They use these new laws to fight the drugs trade and God knows what else.”
Agreed. This is about attacking political enemies. 1984 thought police.
Does your browser reveal what CPU it is browsing from?
I think it does. If you’re using PowerPC, Firefox, IE and Safari tell your CPU.
It shows the architecture, eg x86 or power. It *doesn’t* let you trace back to an individual processor. There was an uproar a couple of years ago when intel introduced a unique cpu identifier.
As with everything this too could be hacked : http://www.hardwarecentral.com/hardwarecentral/tutorials/159/1/
3) what are the easy “anonymizer” options?
The quick-and-easy way is to use a web based proxy. Here’s a list of some of those : http://www.freeproxy.ru/en/free_proxy/cgi-proxy.htm
A better way would be to use Tor ( http://tor.eff.org/ ) which is more secure but requires you install a software package to your pc. It will route your data through several other computers, encrypting at each hop. It is also not limited to just web (http) traffic.
Handy for use with tor : the switchproxy firefox extension ( https://addons.mozilla.org/extensions/moreinfo.php?application=firef… ) and an explanation of how to import a list of anonymous proxy servers for use with it ( http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/3966596/a… )
Edited for spelling.
Edited 2006-02-06 15:13
IP address shows your general location, mostly what state your in (whois records) and other ISP information.
Your browser sends a host-agent string containing OS/arch/build-info and other juicy information. There’s plugins out there to fake this info (Opera did that for a while).
Best thing todo now is block cookies from the search enginees, so all your searches show up under different cookie ids.
This is a bit off-topic, but “USA PATRIOT Act” is an acronym so it should be all caps. The full title of the bill is (if you can believe it): “Uniting and Strengthening America by Providing Appropriate Tools Required to Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism”
Who votes for these morons?
“1) by your IP address.”
Depending on where you are,your ISP policies and local law it could be anything from “pretty much nothing” to “who you are and where you live”.
“2) Does your browser reveal what CPU it is browsing from? ”
Depends on what you mean by “what CPU”. IIRC it does say what platform (x86, ppc) but not the CPU serial number.
“3) what are the easy “anonymizer” options?”
Tor (http://tor.eff.org/) together with Privoxy (www.privoxy.org)
Edited 2006-02-07 03:23
I can understand people having problems with search engines giving up search records– but for me personally it doesn’t really matter. It’s an age-old argument, but really, I got nothing to hide.
However, other people might be more privacy-sensitive, and since I think that number of people outweighs the number of people like myself, search engines should not give out search records.
I can understand people having problems with search engines giving up search records– but for me personally it doesn’t really matter. It’s an age-old argument, but really, I got nothing to hide.
Same here. I don’t think I’ve looked anything up that I would be embarassed about if my mother saw a list of my search queries. I understand though that it bothers some people just because of the principle of the whole thing, which is understandable, I guess.
Edited 2006-02-06 14:37
Same here. I don’t think I’ve looked anything up that I would be embarassed about if my mother saw a list of my search queries. I understand though that it bothers some people just because of the principle of the whole thing, which is understandable, I guess.
The right to privacy is an internationaly recognised human right : http://www.unhchr.ch/udhr/lang/eng.htm
It is important to prevent against abuses of power as they existed in the west not long ago and still exist in many countries today.
The fact you have nothing to hide is irrelevant, it would be like saying torture of terrorists is OK because you’re not a terrorist.
Same here. I don’t think I’ve looked anything up that I would be embarassed about if my mother saw a list of my search queries.
I have. And how.
I used to think the same way about this privacy issue “I’ve got nothing to hide”. What you have to remember is this would set a precedent. Sure they may be looking for illegal activity today, but what about tomorrow. What other personal information can be deduced about you by what you search for on the internet (health information, financial information, etc)? The danger to thinking like this is that it is a little short sighted. Once you give away your rights, it is awfully hard to get them back, and this could open the door to other personal information being collected in the future.
“They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither safety nor liberty.”
– Benjamin Franklin
Just my 2 cents.
This Benjamin Franklin character might be worth listening too, he had something to do with this America project or some sorts.
I can understand people having problems with search engines giving up search records
search engines should not give out search records.
Personally I think the real problem are that the search engines stores a record created of the search term used along with our IP address in the first place. The storing search terms by itself are not problem, as they may have their use in development and analyzing of the search engine. But the storing of IP addresses along with search term, have minimal use for anything else than various forms of data mining and invasion of privacy(I actually consider storing information and using it for customer profiling and marketing, a invasion of privacy).
I don’t want my search history stored at all, making it impossible to disclose for any use.
Edited 2006-02-06 15:57
The “I have nothing to hide” argument lowers the expectation of privacy for us all. If the majority of people out there said that, then the people who truly needed privacy (let’s say human rights activists) would be looked at like freaks. Also it implies suspicion that some how if you require privacy your automatically guilty, or should be viewed that way. Again, inconsistent with the laws and norms of today.
The same argument could be applied to security. One could say “my computer is worthless I don’t need to check for viruses” and the next thing you know your computer is part of a bot-net DDoSing sites.
We still live in a society where we all depend on each other in someway.
Yeah ! That’s where most criminals do their searches anyway !
Personally I don’t have a problem with it, as long as it’s carried out in a legal manner. A subpoena is legal btw. It’s not like the government is trying to do this in secret.
(let the flaming begin!)
Personally I don’t have a problem with it, as long as it’s carried out in a legal manner. A subpoena is legal btw. It’s not like the government is trying to do this in secret.
They are not putting out a subpeona for my specific searches. They subpeonaed Google for 1 million random web addresses and all search records from an unspecified one-week period. I may or may not be included in that subpeona (you may or may not be included in that subpeona), and I know that I have not done anything illegal. I could have been searching for information to help protect my daughter from sexual predators, but the information they retrieve may not know the reason I was looking up information that could be closely associated with child pornography.
The fact that I do not know the exact details of the subpeona that may affect me (or you) makes it seem rather secretive. I hope others follow Google’s lead and not let government have carte blanche access to our personal data.
@ Sean Parsons
Bingo! You hit the nail on the head!
If they had suspects in mind, I could feel a little more comfortable about these searches. Instead, they are just casting a broad net. This is the needle in a haystack approach, if you ask me.
Like someone stated earlier, this seems to be more of an effort that could be used to carry out political vendettas than a tool to catch terrorists.
The USA-Patriot Act has redefined our defintion of legal. Blindly trusting the system doesn’t quite work anymore since the system has been changed. For instance, The Homeland Security department was caught monitoring a protest… of Vegans… outside a Ham store. How is this allowed, or even a good use of tax dollars? Vegans are the most unlikely demographic of terrorist ever, maybe next to circus clowns.
http://www.11alive.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=75151
I’m going to create few email addresses from different IPs, Then I’ll start sending “terrorist plans” from/to that emails
Joke aside, you’d end up in big trouble in no time flat if you live in the States, for wasting Echelon’s staff time.
Not that it would be any different elsewhere but it’s a lot more complicate to capture you outside of the US and to arrange to have you transfered in god forsaken place, where you won’t be distracted by urban noise when answering questions.
I don’t live in the US. I can send whatever I want to myself.
I wouldn’t count on that. Heard of “rendition”? the whole world has become a ploice state.
Even if you have nothing to hide, never let them think that it is OK to do this to you. Even more important, never let yourself think that it is OK for others to do this to you. Resist.
If you want anonymous internet go to an internet cafe or a free wireless service. You can of course steal internet access – wireless is easiest – but that’s nasty.
Even if you have nothing to hide, never let them think that it is OK to do this to you. Even more important, never let yourself think that it is OK for others to do this to you. Resist.
Exactly! There is a big jump between “it doesn’t really matter if everyone has this info” to “everyone should have this info”.
After all it wouldn’t really hurt you if everyone had access to say your salary details, but that doesn’t mean they should be made available to anyone who asks without your consent.
If they need any evidence against you they’ll just manufacture it. Not having access to the records just makes it a bit more difficult.
Can you prove you never searched/browsed there?
Keep sluggin’ google!
In that case that the folks looking at my records have a warrant or some other form of legal authority allowing them access.
I don’t want to have my search information disclosed to the world, though, no. I don’t have anything to hide, but I do believe in due process.
They also reveal George W. Bush’s. One thing to consider is if data mining is allowed to continue unabashed (and if that data can be obtained by subpoena), then where does it stop? Can’t some company (or the gov’t) create ultraacoustic satellites or lampposts that record everybody’s conversations (for “better advertisement targeting”, of course), thermal imaging satellites that see through walls/roofs, and cell phone tracking? The last two already exists, btw. My point is, then a subpoena could get data on all your voice conversations (cell and in person), thermal imaging of what (who) you’re doing at home/work, and everywhere you travel and when. In an age where the NSA doesn’t need court orders to snoop on your phone calls, where is the line going to get drawn? You voted for big government guys, and now you’re sleeping in the bed that you made.
The Justice Department got a court to issue subpoenas for search logs from Yahoo, MSN, and Google as part of its ongoing effort to resurrect COPA (Chid Online Protection Act), which was previously struck down as unconstitutional by SCOTUS. Contrary to what most of the posts here seem to assume, this action is totally unrelated to the Bush administration’s recently exposed policy of circumventing FISA oversight in some uses of domestic surveillance and intercepts.
Personally, I think its great that Google is protesting, and thereby making bringing this issue to the attention of the public at large, but they will have turn over the requested information in the end. The court’s routinely issue suponeas for documents in civil court cases which are far, far more invasive of your privacy. Documents like your medical records, your insurance claims, and records of all sorts of financial transactions.
I read somewhere that while MSN complied with the supeona, they did so by turning over the logs of searches without corresponding IP addresses. This should prove to be perfectly acceptable given the fact that the scope of the Justice Department’s discovery requests are limited by their stated purpose of amassing evidence in an attempt to have the courts revist COPA, which shouldn’t require that any individual IP addresses be revealed.
There is also another problem, they also have a cookie in your computer which uniquely identifies your searches. It is not only a matter of IP, which could be dynamic, but they also have a link from it to your computer (the cookie). If you travel around the world with your laptop, no matter what ISP you use, no matter how many proxies you jump from, if you don’t delete the cookie thay can also know all the places you’ve been to, link your IPs to your computer, your e-mail account (logged into Gmail or Yahoo), your personal data.
Then you start buying from their links, or using gmail to make transactions, to talk to other friends (who may or may not have gmail accounts). Some smart data mining program scans your e-mail (not a human, but who cares!). At the end of the day, they know so much about you, your friends, your purchases, your perversions 🙂 it is scary.
I am worried about the government minding my business, but I am even more worried about these big corporations having access to that information, and being able to manipulate or sell it.
Maybe we need a new definition for “computer geek.”
I suggest: “Google knows me better than my wife/gf does.”
Bad as life is under King George, there is no legal offense called “wasting Echelon staff time”. You also might keep in mind that programs like Echelon are joint US-UK efforts, and look to your own house; King Tony is at least as threatening because he’s less stupid but just as committed to the neocon cause.
If the EU is really “holier” than the US (and I sincerely hope they are– I LIKE Europe) let’s see a SERIOUS investigation, complete with indictments, of the leaders who looked the other way regarding the secret CIA prisons in Poland and Bulgaria.
Just block cookies from the search engines, it’s easy in Firefox.
Now that Google (with Counterspot, and other corporations will soon follow) is offering net counters for free, the reach of their knowledge about us is increasing enormously. They’ll know not also what you search for, but what pages you browse, how many times and so on. The power which reside in the nearly entire knowledge of the Internet surfers movements is invaluable, illegal (in my opinion) and it’s happening.
He just wants to be able to persecute his domestic political opposition with data-mining and profiling. He must be impeached, tried for treason and war crimes.
I haven’t seen anyone mention scroogle.org yet. Basically a google proxy, and they don’t keep your IP on file.
As for the ‘All of the reputable search portals keep the data private’ statement, I contend that a reputable search engine doesn’t keep your IP at all, since there is not reason to.