Turning those percentages into whole numbers isn’t a matter of simple division, unfortunately, because we don’t know the denominator. Microsoft has told us for years that the Windows user base is 1.5 billion, but I argued a year ago that the number of Windows PCs is probably much lower than that, even with a pandemic-induced resurgence in PC sales. Even allowing for that uncertainty, it’s clear that at least 100 million PCs are still running Windows 7, and that number could be significantly higher.
It makes sense. Windows 7 is still a perfectly capable operating system, and I can understand how especially for average, normal users, there’s little in Windows 10 that’s worth going through the hassle of an upgrade for. Security issues aside, Windows 7 still looks modern, too.
Why should a regular user upgrade?
I’m with you on this. I mean the obvious reason to upgrade is that it won’t be supported anymore, but users didnt ask for that.
I have three computers under 7 and not planning to upgrade (1GB of RAM -Atom 330- and 2x8GB -AMD-). Windows 7 works beautifully, and it’s not because there are more recent versions that suddenly Windows 7 have to feel old. Sure the Windows 10’s UI might be a bit snappier, but when you rely on a flat-looking Windows 3’s UI, I bet it could. Anyway, the “security” excuse is old and old fashioned. Been there, done that…
See the guy below who got hacked on Windows 7 on why you should update. Or make yourself eligible for ESU.
I’ve never read a formal analysis of what the security issues are with windows 7. What part is a security issue or user error? What part is a remote security problem or one which requires access to the machine? Nobody ever says because it’s easier to keep parroting “OMG if you don’t update to the latest version you’re going to die”. Exactly what security issues stop anyone safely using windows 7 when connected to a network? I have never read an explanation.
The next font vulnerability, I guess. Remember, Windows does font handling in the kernel, that’s why font exploits are so bad. Or some other semi-disclosed vulnerability that got patched since January 2020 in Windows 8.1 and 10 but not in 7.
Update to Windows 8.1. With Classic Shell Start Menu it’s Windows 7 with a flat theme (and better boot times and slightly better WiFi connections UI).
@kurkosdr
Can we deal with vulnerbilties which actually exist not theoretical bogeymans? Please learn the difference between pushing an evidence based example and pushing an opinion.
What Windows 8.1 and cosmetic hacks have to do with Windows 7 I don’t know.
Here you go:
https://www.welivesecurity.com/2020/03/24/microsoft-warns-two-windows-zero-day-flaws/
Another font vulnerability, it’s critical, allows for arbitrary code execution just by previewing a downloaded file, is not patched on Windows 7, the whole package. Took me, like, 5 whole minutes of googling, so you shouldn’t have even asked and googled it yourself.
Get out of vanilla Windows 7, now. If you don’t like Windows 10, alternatives are Windows 7 with ESU eligibility or Windows 8.1 with Classic Shell Start Menu (similar UI to Windows 7)
Here is the full rundown:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/daveywinder/2020/04/15/windows-10-security-alert-as-microsoft-confirms-seven-critical-vulnerabilities/
Includes don’t vulnerabilities and codec vulnerabilities, web based exploitable and all.
Every time I feel dumb, I remind myself there are people out there who are running unpatched Windows 7. Imagine that: Unpatched Windows 7. Windows as an OS needs constant patching (and so does Desktop Linux to a large degree btw) and Windows 7 is used by 24% of Windows users while not having received any patches for a whole year. If that’s not a big fat red target for malware writers, I don’t know what is. At least XP had faded into relative obscurity when support was pulled.
Includes don’t vulnerabilities = Includes font vulnerabilities
@kurkosdr
It’s easy to run a Google search when you know what you are looking for. I’ve been reading CVE’s… As I thought the security vulnerabilities rely on downloading a third party application or running a file. No big deal in other words. Loads of vulnerabilities are actually vulnerabilities with third party software which open holes for something to get in and make use of an exploit. Other exploits created by third party software are local and require the user to be present. i’ll leave it to someone else to look for a remote exploitation as I got tired looking through the CVEs. Any decent security guidance would write this up and as I said I have never come across one. Ever.
No I don’t run Windows 7 but thanks for giving me advice on what I should or shouldn’t run btw. Also calm down and stop calling people dumb. They’re not going to respond to OMG OMG OMG or being called stupid. What do you know about organisations or psychology or sociology or law just to pick three topics? Someone who knew what they were talking about could make you look very stupid. It’s the same thing.
If still not convinced, look at the guy below on this page who got “mysteriously” hacked on Windows 7. Font vulnerabilities and codec vulnerabilities affect all apps, deal with.
Most user errors that result in malware are security issues. Its also not just “you’re going to die!” Its “you’re going to end up part of a bot net and hurt everyone else via ddos or further malware infections”. Most people with bad security habits just attribute a malware bot infection as a computer getting slower and don’t try to figure out why. And/if they get ransomwared, they don’t understand the connection between their actions or lack of actions and the ransom ware.
Its very silly to want to know what vulnerabilities are out there and then decide weather or not to install security updates based on those threats. Threats always improve and get better, there are always ones we don’t know about and that kind of analysis is far beyond most people’s ability.
Windows 7 works, I don’t buy the FUD. Security issues with Windows 7 ? Then why Microsoft stop patching it ? I’m not asking for new Windows 10’s “features” (telemetry, Paint 3D, …), I just want a non obstructive OS that allows me to use my computer at its full potential. Windows 2000, Windows XP and Windows 7 do. My latest laptop came with Windows 10, so I’m using it, yet against my will.
Nowadays you can still drive with older cars that do not features all the technologic refinements of modern cars, and you’re free to still use them, yet it’s your responsibility to drive safely. Hence same with an old OS, I know its limits (so to speak) and if Microsoft was really kind, they would ensure Windows 7 to stay secure. I repeat, I never asked for Windows 10, I’m quite content with 7.
Would you park an old car with an outdated immobiliser, for which insta-disable kits exist, in the bad part of town? Because that’s what the internet is: The bad part of town. With malware incidents happening even on Google ads, that’s how it is.
If still not convinced, look at the guy below on this page who got “mysteriously” hacked on Windows 7. Font vulnerabilities and codec vulnerabilities affect all apps, and Windows 7 has some of those since January 2020. Nobody forces you to go to 10. Get a key for Windows 8.1 from Kinguin for the equivalent of two large pizzas and you get 2 more years of security. Install Classic Shell Start Menu for a familiar UI.
kurkosdr,
Sure that’s the best practice, but sometimes the risks get exaggerated and it really depends on how you use it. If you are running a multiuser system where adversaries have user accounts, then the risk is indeed very high. Most of the vulnerabilities for desktop operating systems are in this class and they are genuine security flaws. But if you are the only user and don’t install untrusted software behind an outbound only firewall, then the attack surface mostly becomes the web browser. So as long as you have an updated web browser, you are not significantly more likely to get pawned.
The vast majority of modern attacks target users and not computer vulnerabilities. This is not to say that vulnerabilities aren’t real and I’m not advising people not to update, but the major attack surfaces can often be mitigated by a knowledgeable person. As long as they do it at their own risk then I don’t think it’s a big deal. IMHO professionals like Kochise who know what they’re doing on windows 7 can still be safer than unknowledgeable users on windows 10 (or linux or macs for that matter).
Windows 7 had an awful USB implementation and by default it had terrible network compression on file transfer.
So glad I don’t have to use it any more.
Windows 10 is awful with Bluetooth and printing, no problem with Windows 7. And I don’t even mention the UI.
Many remain because of a fear of change, some remain because of compatibility, I find on most Win 7 capable hardware Win 10 offers better and more responsive performance. I watch over a small number of desktop programs in our organisation that require Win 7 or even Win XP, most exist because they have special hardware requiring driver support. But the list is diminishing rapidly as support of Win 10 improves.
I’m continually surprised that Win 10 seems to gather this legacy device support slowly over time, but it does and for that I commend the many other dedicated devs and of course MS.
If Windows 7 works for you just stick with it. The same goes for Vista, XP/2k, 98, 3.11…
We have one Windows 7 machine at work that hasn’t been upgraded yet because 10 drops support for its hardware. It’s still in use because that hardware is necessary for one person’s daily workflow. It’s a catch-22 that I wish I could solve but said person is the company’s accountant and a co-owner so it’s difficult to push back against her reasoning. Thankfully our accounting software will require an update this year that drops support for 7, so she will have no choice but to modernize her workflow.
With all of that said I’d love to move us to a sane operating system across the board and just ditch Windows altogether; most of our business is web based and can run on any OS with stable Chrome and Firefox, but two key applications prevent that (the aforementioned accounting software, and our archaic shipping software).
Most people I know who use Windows don’t really care about support. A lawyer I consulted 10 years ago still used Windows 95 and StarOffice 6.0.
I know it’s heresy to say this in the IT industry today, but remember that products like Windows 95 didn’t have “support” in the way we think of it today. There was no obligation or expectation of bug fixes or security patches. Although people like to claim that this was a pre-Internet era, it really wasn’t – 1995 was Netscape’s IPO, Internet Explorer 2.0 was released, TCP/IP and Dial-Up networking were integrated into 95, and it would take another 6 or 7 years before regular updates became normal. Even at that time, many users didn’t install them, or know that updates existed.
Edit: StarOffice 6.0 was the “supported” version of OpenOffice, released in 2002, but I can’t find any references to updates for it. At that time we had the concept of support, but still not the way we think of it today. StarOffice 7.0 had plenty of updates, but I don’t know if it had a defined support lifetime or policy.
It’s still a little unclear to me how much “support” is something users really need and how much of it is a way for vendors to suggest that their software has an expiration date.
Windows ME brought in web-enabled software updates. Sadly, it was a turd, and took until XP (which only became mainstream circa 2003) for the feature to really take off
What I personally find amazing is that Windows 7 experiences growth once in a while. For example, Windows 7 gained 1.2% between October 2020 and December 2020.
https://gs.statcounter.com/windows-version-market-share/desktop/worldwide/2020
And this happens despite the fact Windows 7 doesn’t come preinstalled with any new computer hardware anymore (Windows XP lingered on for so long because of netbooks), and despite the fact some software outright refuses to run under Windows 7 and can only be made run on Windows 7 with hacks (NFS: Heat comes to mind).
Some of this growth might be statistical noise, but some of it is users upgrading to Windows 10 and then going back to Windows 7 (the smartest of them making themselves eligible for ESU updates somehow).
Hint to Microsoft: Users hate having their system locked up for quite a while because of updates. My parents are on Windows 8.1 specifically to avoid this. They are busy people and have no time to deal with Windows 10’s ultra-long update nonsense. Windows 8.1 only needs 5 minutes or so.
> Hint to Microsoft: Users hate having their system locked up for quite a while because of updates. My parents are on Windows 8.1 specifically to avoid this.
Hint to users, leave the machine on 24/7 and set updates for 4am automatic restarts. Win 10 needs that to run smoothly. Can;t convince my Aunt though! After so long ignoring updates it goes into panic mode and the computer becomes unresponsive and I get a call saying the email is not working! I just collect it and update using a USB stick to the latest (or just my network as her internet speed really does not help (though the turning the machine off during updates does the most damage to usability)).
Or course getting people to understand the needed maintanace of running a computer is hard. Maybe if the banks stop refudning them for scams (sue to said issue) we might get somewhere.
Making the need for basic maintenance clear and not turning up with a USB stick would help. People won’t change if they can offload problems. Not only that but if maintenance is done the problem will go away and your aunt can spent quality time with you instead of dreary old recurring tech problems.
Set active hours and don’t forget to turn off P2P updates (especially for a dodgy network) and put the machine to sleep not off.
I use tech but no longer work in the tech field and have zero interest in returning unless it’s some kind of management or creative management job and that’s never going to happen.. I’m happy discussing tech issues from time to time but basically refuse to do tech support. I had one prospective client who couldn’t navigate something and used that as a criteria to blank them. Another prospective client had an issue so I banged out one line of breadcrumbs and the problem was dealt with. I also get some clients wanting a shoulder to cry on and there’s a similar thing. Some people I will help and others I won’t. It all depends whether they are showing some positivity or going to be a never ending pain giving me therapy issues. More than this and they can pay for it or go find an expert in the field. Basically there’s only one of me to go around and I’m not letting the tail wag the dog.
I had to resolve problems with a relative’s laptop multiple times. He doesn’t plug in his laptop until it is needed and shuts it down when he is done. Shouldn’t be a problem do you think?
With win 10 that is a problem, when the update takes longer and the battery isn’t full enough it just goes dead during the updating process and the next day I have a laptop to recover delivered here. That is the fault of windows, not of the user, why start an update when the battery is not full enough? Most battery powered devices require you to have at least 50% of charge or even have it plugged in before updating.
He has a new laptop now that is much faster, so I hope not to see the same problem again, but it certainly is not only the user’s fault!
The problem with Microsofts design and narrative is they either are not very clear or they have a corporate agenda getting in the way. That is I would agree a problem with their product, advertising, and general corporate communications. It’s also different to what people have been used to and this takes time to absorb.
I have found the best thing for end users is guidance notes. These will be short and to the point (ideally one page of A4) and effectively allow a braindead dummy to know what the task is, what problem needs to be solved, and what they need to do. I have better things to do than babysit random people and generally speaking this solves 90% of problems before they arise.
If you work to the framework provided you’re not going to get problems. Not only does it mean using active hours (and switching P2P off) but also running it frequently enough you don’t get a forced update when your battery is at 50% when out on the road. Check for an update the day before if necessary. It’s that simple.
I’m not a fan of excessive centrallisation or forced updates or telemetry or useless application installing or marketing being shoved in my face and, yes, forced updates when out on the road or in the middle of a task are not great. So this is all a discussion. But nonetheless there are settings in place to switch this off or mitigate issues. It’s the first thing I do when setting up a fresh install before the computer goes online. Ergo I don’t have these problems.
I now do a none technical job and see similar kinds of generic issues pop up. This is why I am slowly working through promotional material to create a self-teaching narrative which sets expectations and minimises conflicts and differences of priorities. I’m finding this hard work because i’m having to figure out what to say and what not to say and “end users” still get basic things wrong. People aren’t code so never behave as they should.
Hint to Carrot007: Most people keep their laptops in bags, completely shut down or hibernated, and they carry them from home to workplace. Stop pretending Windows 10 is a minor task, it takes lots of time with the CPU fans in full operation.
I always shut my laptop down if I’m carrying it anywhere. The reason is I don’t want it waking from sleep and getting hot inside a bag which can happen.
Which is why Windows 10 updates suck. You want to shutdown your laptop to pack and go home, the ultra-long updatefest starts.
Win 8.1 updates are superfast.
@kurkosdr
I don’t care. I’m using Windows 10 not Windows 8.1 (and never have used Windows 8 or Vista as I skipped both). Also I have working hours set and P2P updates off and when travelling do my updates at home before I leave. This is not a problem and I have no idea why you are trying to manufacture one.
I have an old Dell E6420 laptop that ran Windows 7 for a while, but the updates stopped working. Then one day it got hacked and encrypted for ransom. Not sure what happened there, cause all I used the laptop was for running a small media server locally.
I’ve since upgraded to linux and it’s been working rock solid. I also use windows 10 on other machines and have not had any issues. Appreciate all the patches that windows provides, but I always feel weary of using an OS that can be easily hacked.
You derped, badly. I ‘ve never had a security issue on any patched Windows system. Both Windows and Desktop Linux can be “easily hacked” if not patched because the applications can do a lot of damage even without root (and some of them have root). Have we forgotten shellshock and the Drupal exploits already? It’s the reason I left Windows 7 for 8.1, even on my old Aspire One netbook (originally shipped with Windows XP), and it’s the reason I am going to Windows 10 in 2023 (the parents are probably getting a chromebook).
I don’t know what happened in your case, but my guess is that either your computer wasn’t behind a NAT (router) and someone port-scanned you, or the media server opened a port to the outside (UPnP), or some weather widget or whatever simply downloaded bad data from somewhere and you got caught by the recent font exploits. Lesson of the day: Patch. Your. Stuff. On Windows and Desktop Linux.
I sometimes think that if Microsoft had continued refining Windows 7 instead of mucking about with the Win 8/10 interface and telemetry silliness, I would have left macOS behind as my preferred personal OS when Apple’s interface designers decided to go down the road of iOS-ification and inscrutability. If Win7 were still supported with security updates, I might well have switched to it.
josehill,
I agree personally and think most users would still be fine with windows 7 especially if microsoft continued to support it. A lot of people adamant about using windows 10 given continuing hardware support and security updates, which makes a lot of sense. But if windows 7 were still officially supported and available for sale and consumers were given the choice, a lot of us would still opt to stick with windows 7. Even all these years later I still find the interface and forced changes to be a con for windows 10. Personally I’d want security updates but disable any forced telemetry updates as well as any forced software downloads.
Regarding the IOSification of macos, I find it unfortunate too. This was predicted a long time ago. I think microsoft and apple have been gradually chipping away control from owners. And they kind of need to do it together.