The momentum generated by Apple’s iPod digital music players and related products continues to translate into new Macintosh sales according to one Wall Street analyst who estimates that over one million Windows users have purchased a Mac in the first three quarters of 2005.
I would love to switch. I would of course always want an XP/Vista box around, but the Mac platform is so fun to work with. Its just so damn expensive for what you get. I have thought about the mini, but once you include extra memory and such, the price jump is just too high.
Apple makes beautiful systems, thats for sure.
It’s really not so damn expensive for what you get. The mini, for example, name another computer with those specs in a well-built ultra small form factor case. How much does that cost? I bet it’s probably >$500. I just spec’d out a ultra small form factor optiplex really quickly, and they start at around $800. (admitedly with an 80GB hard drive and mouse/keyboard) Even if you get one of those huge ugly plastic Dell cases, bottom of the line system, it’s probably still, what, $400?
It comes with 512MB, which really isn’t bad. Adding another 512 is only $100.
Personally, I think the iMac is probably the best value in computers today. Only problem there is if you already have a screen that you want to keep. But with the built in camera, remote, and everything else? Come on, that’s not too expensive.
http://tinyurl.com/e4yj3
Buy the memory from a third pary.
Refurbished Mac mini 1.25GHz
1.25GHz PowerPC G4
256MB DDR333 SDRAM
ATI Radeon 9200 with 32MB DDR video memory
40GB Ultra ATA hard drive
Combo drive
DVI or VGA video output
Price: $379.00
Not regarding the Mini but more about the entire Apple line:
for example:
(Aurora 7500) http://www.alienware.com/product_detail_pages/Aurora_7500/aurora_75…
vs
(Dual G5 2 GHz)http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/720…
The cost exactly the same. Now, keep in mind that the Mac doesn’t have a monitor, has a GF 6600 LE (compared to 6800 GT) and has half the RAM as the Alienware PC.
Do I smell a ripoff or what?
“Its just so damn expensive for what you get”
Perhaps you mean… its so expensive for what *you* want.
Its important to clarify this because Macs typically cost less than equally equipped PCs (including hardware software and OS.
Apple’s prices are high-ish, but they are not more expensive. Apple simply allows you fewer options to buy less and spend less as you can with a PC.
“Macs typically cost less than equally equipped PCs (including hardware software and OS”
This is just false. Why do you bother to keep saying this stuff?
Actually this is only true for certain other well known brands. You can always compare any cheap laptop and get better hardware for a lower price. If you compare brands that have a high recognition like IBM then really apple is competitive. The thing with apple is that they usually try to put products in an area where it’s hard to measure the competitivity (guess why…).
When they finally released and entry level headless computer it was the mac mini. The form factor makes it hard to compare to anything. I still miss a decent headlless machine comparable to a PC Shuttle. My 3.0 ghz shuttle performs very well despite its relatively small form factor. Not as small as a mac mini but so much more powerfull (real GPU slot, SATA…) and it a sub-1000$ machine. Maybe they should revive the cube?
And don’t tell me about the imac, i insist on not having a screen attached to a non-laptop computer.
Its just so damn expensive for what you get
Not all of Macs are.
For instance the G5 processor gives excellent price for performance, so much in fact that several supercomputers have been built out of PowerMac and X-Servers/Nodes.
Now there is this new PowerMac Quad (dual-dual core) that is based priced about the same as a dual core Xeon from Dell.
http://www.systemshootouts.org/shootouts/desktop/2005/1022_dt5300.h…
http://www.systemshootouts.org/processors.html
Add to the fact that the Mac just plain works, is rock solid secure and can be made insanely secure with full hard drive encryption, firmware passwords, firewall logs blocking all traffic, even UDP and Ping.
How much is your time worth? Are you happier working for the computer or the computer working for you?
Can you just leave your computer on for months straight directly connected online via cable broadband and surf, email, open every attachment without a care in the world?
Can you set up a newbie on a computer and forget them for a year without so much as a peep out of them?
Does your computer make you happy to use it? That you want to use it more and more each day?
Are you a person who likes to suffer or would you rather treat yourself to a few pleasures this life has to offer?
> For instance the G5 processor gives excellent price for
> performance, so much in fact that several
> supercomputers have been built out of PowerMac and
> X-Servers/Nodes.
So have the Opteron and the Itanium 2. Would you like to compare the number of entries on the Top 500?
> Now there is this new PowerMac Quad (dual-dual core)
> that is based priced about the same as a dual core Xeon
> from Dell.
Really? Because it looks a lot more like someone added a bunch of things to the Dell Precision 670 until it cost $5,300. Starting by using Intel’s server line with a dual dual-core configuration in a Dell workstation, and then giving it a worthless workstation video card, then comparing it with a PowerMac with a video game video card. Who would buy the machine configured like that? It’s not even the absolute cost, it’s the way the cost is distributed. As configured it’s nothing but a collection of processors with a DVD burner. Feel the power! It fails decidedly as either a workstation for CAD or a home computer. If you just want a machine for computation then you’re not going to buy a workstation, and it’s not going to have a DVD burner, speakers, or a Quadro. If you want a useful workstation, you’re going to cater its hardware to the task at hand, rather than just buy a quad processor machine and couple it with garbage simply because you can. Adding processors doesn’t magically make the computer more useful for doing work.
The PowerMac has a similar problem, because for $5k you’re not getting a lot of value. As a home machine, that’s just ridiculous and for a workstation it’s too generic. It’s less worthless than the Dell configuration, but that’s intentional on the part of the person performing the selection.
> http://www.systemshootouts.org/processors.html
Ok, and I thought you were serious. My mistake. Real benchmarking need not apply here.
> Add to the fact that the Mac just plain works, is
> rock solid secure and can be made insanely secure
> with full hard drive encryption, firmware passwords,
> firewall logs blocking all traffic, even UDP and
> Ping.
Firewall logs and blocking traffic?! Where do I sign up?!
> How much is your time worth?
Apparently not enough because I’m still reading!
> Are you happier working for the computer or the
> computer working for you?
Ok, I give up. If ever there has been a post that’s astroturfing this is it.
Its just so damn expensive for what you get
Not all of Macs are.
For instance the G5 processor gives excellent price for performance, so much in fact that several supercomputers have been built out of PowerMac and X-Servers/Nodes.
Now there is this new PowerMac Quad (dual-dual core) that is based priced about the same as a dual core Xeon from Dell.
http://www.systemshootouts.org/shootouts/desktop/2005/1022_dt5300.h…
http://www.systemshootouts.org/processors.html
Add to the fact that the Mac just plain works, is rock solid secure and can be made insanely secure with full hard drive encryption, firmware passwords, firewall logs blocking all traffic, even UDP and Ping.
How much is your time worth? Are you happier working for the computer or the computer working for you?
Can you just leave your computer on for months straight directly connected online via cable broadband and surf, email, open every attachment without a care in the world?
Can you set up a newbie on a computer and forget them for a year without so much as a peep out of them?
Does your computer make you happy to use it? That you want to use it more and more each day?
Are you a person who likes to suffer or would you rather treat yourself to a few pleasures this life has to offer?
I guarantee you offered the same excuse 5 years ago while spending $800 for your new PC…
This excuse is sad and pathetic now. Seriously, I don’t like Mac or Apple, but quit saying this!
I switched two years ago and am now on my second Mac. I hate having to use Windows anywhere outside of work. The only thing that get’s me is the shitty Windows Media Player for Mac that Microsoft has graced us with.
The only thing that get’s me is the shitty Windows Media Player for Mac that Microsoft has graced us with.
Bad software, from Microsoft ? Surely not 🙂
If you don’t mind paying for software you should check out flip4mac.com they sell a WMV plugin for quicktime that works great.
that swore he’d never get a mac. Well, got an email from him not too long ago and he told me he’s got a G5.
I was shocked and still am. Never thought someone so against the mac as this guy said he was would switch.
– Mark
Haha … I used to be a vehement anti-Apple troll for years. Then Apple started coming out with some nice hardware — and now I’ve got a 12″ iBook G4 and 1.42 GHz Mac Mini.
Same here. Was anti-mac for sooooo long. Then I got a Powerbook 17″ and love it so much. It just works.
I was actually anti-mac. But at that time 4000$ was the normal price and Mac OS 7.x / 8.x sucked so much.
Not only do I love my lovely iBook (a bit slow but nice for the price) but I really wish all the members of my family and friends would stop bothering me with their recurring XP problems. It is just awful how a non-techie person must fight daily against malware on windows (and hence forward that same useless fighting to the closest techie).
Well part of my job is computer repair. The vast majority are just basic virus/spyware issues, and of course cleaning out windows 98-XP. People have so much junk starting up when they boot its just crazy. And Norton and McAfee seem to be on a good percentage of the systems and end up eating up lots of memory. Of course alot of the time the users let it expire because they didnt really need an antivirus (LOL). Lets not even talk about Norton Internet Security and email problems with outlook express and email timeouts. I install firefox but most of the time the user switches back to Internet explorer.
Then I go back have my coffee and work on my powerbook for hours while the virus scan runs on the system in for repair.
But I still use windows at home and find it fine for most things and games. But I will say I love OSX far more.
Ugh … tell me about it. I mean, I DO have a PC running XP SP2, and while I don’t have any problems with regard to viruses/spyware (I’m not a retard) … I cringe whenever I have to go fix/clean someone else’s computer. I just want to scream “BUY A MAC”. OS X is such a no-bullshit platform. I unsleep my iBook, I get my stuff done, I watch a movie, and that’s it. If I want new software, it takes seconds to install after it’s downloaded. It’s stable, it’s fast … frick. I love it.
Haha … I used to be a vehement anti-Apple troll for years.
Somehow I have no problem believing that.
Don’t worry, you’re still an irrational troll even if you have an iBook.
Don’t worry, you’re still a life-less Linuxtard who masturbates whenever Linus releases a new kernel. OS X owns you, and you just feel inadequate because of that.
It will only get better with the upcoming Intel migration, which should allow for a native Windows install alongside OSX (vs. the slow emulation we deal with now).
From the article…
“If we assume that all of the growth in Mac shipments during the past three quarters resulted from Windows users purchasing a Mac, then purchases by Windows users exceeded one million,”
That is one hell on an assumption, that all recent growth is due to Windows switchers.
P.s. (IP: 198.135.203.—) Mini’s come with 512MB of ram these days, more than enough to run OSX and normal everyday applications. No idea what ‘and such’ is, but as long as you’ve got a USB keyboard, USB Mouse and a monitor what else do you need ?
That is one hell on an assumption, that all recent growth is due to Windows switchers.
True, that is a major presumpton/assumption. Perhaps it needs more examination.
If there has been any increase in the need for computers in general how large would it have to be for that to result in 1 million additional Macs being sold and what would be the cause of such a huge increase in computer uptake? For Apple’s %-age of this increase in sales to be 1 million units tens to hundreds of millions of increased computer sales would have to be accounted for to explain something other than switching. If Mac is getting 3% (or more, scale the numbers to fit the percentage you feel is correct) of the market then a million more Mac sales means 30-some-odd-million new computers were sold and Apple got their normal share of that group. What is driving this increased uptake of computers that is causing the Apple sales numbers to increase so much? Any idea? Me neither.
If Windows is on 90%, or more, of newly sold computers and there hasn’t been a huge upsurge in computer sales then it may be possible that some Windows users are buying Macs instead of Windows boxen.
It’s not that I find that there are compelling arguments in favor of either of these explanations, but something is happening.
The only thing that get’s me is the shitty Windows Media Player for Mac that Microsoft has graced us with.
have you tried vlc (http://www.videolan.org/vlc/) or mplayer (http://www.mplayerhq.hu/homepage/design7/dload.html)?
Don’t forget NicePlayer. Which basically means Quicktime player features without all the “Pro” nagging and shameful lack of full screen for users who just spent 1000$+ dollars on a new computer. NicePlayer is just perfect for overlaying a video in a corner (no borders, always on top).
Sadly some content providers like comedycentral insist on giving out only wmv files, most of which only work with the original WMP. And they wonder why people prefer torrenting even for “pirating” otherwise legal content.
I switched, and let me tell you my mini is the second best computer related purchase I have ever made (first being my Amiga.)
I don’t get the ipod hype though, it’s just happens to be trendy but it can’t even touch iAudio’s players (for example) feature wise.
You know, people saying they can’t figure out why iPods are so popular, and that the competition beats them on features, are really starting to bug me. You people don’t get it.
iPods aren’t popular because they’re stylish or whatever miscellaneous reason you can come up with. iPods are popular because they’re simple. They do a few things very well, and those few things happen to be what 99% of the market wants. It also happens to come bundled with content: namely, iTunes. Other portable players do not have that; they expect you to rip your own content or download it elsewhere. People will pay a premium for service, period.
As for the iPod Shuffle, Apple’s market research showed that a lot of people only load a few songs onto their iPod, and then they just leave it in shuffle mode. Apple gave them a low-cost player that does just that.
I also got a Mini and although I am generally happy with it I do have a couple of problems, the first is the fact that it feels a bit sluggish sometimes, even with 512MB of RAM, and the second is that I can@t make my webcam (Creative NX Pro) work with it. Just having 2 USB ports is not so nice either, but then again you get what you pay for.
But despite that Mac OS is a very fine OS and if I could I would probably buy a better Mac and use Windows only at work.
And as you can see with the “can@t” I struggle sometimes to use the same keyboard for mac and windows..
Having tried a mini I can tell you it’s exactly the same in my 12 inch iBook. The 4200 rpm HD is just awfully slow. That accounts for a lot of the slugginesh feeling. I use an app called menumeters to monitor in the title bar things like CPU and disk access. Everything the machine feels sluggish it’s when heavy disk activity is going on.
And 512 mb for OSX is just fine but more never hurts, especially when the HD sucks.
Google for Firewire HD for Mac Mini, you could get anice (perceived) performance boost.
Ringo have you tried IOXperts USB WebCam Driver – 1.0.2
http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/14288
I don’t see you cam on the list but you never know, it could work. And might I suggest getting a firewire cam next. If you have a FW video camera it works well with iChat and AOL.
Agreed!
I love my Mas too, but for all their mismanagement, no other company sparked excitment in computing like Commodore. Sadly, the Amiga interest in the states is pretty low compared to Europe. Fortunately I am the proud owner of seven Amigas: A600, A1000, A1200, A2000, A3000T, A4000, A3500.
I love em!
I don’t think Apple is still that expensive as some say. Well, their top line products like dual/quad PowerMacs are overpriced but the mid-line is quite accessible.
One year ago I bought an iMac G5 1.8Ghz, 256RAM, 80GB, 17″ TFT, DVD+-RW for 999€! Taking in mind the quality of the TFT screen, I can’t say this is expensive, on the contrary. And remember that the quality of the hardware is very good.
$999 is pretty expensive for your average computer user. I think most of the John Does out there buy a computer for about $400, maybe $600, but that’s it. Many of the ‘poweruser’ rather upgrade their computer piece by piece rather than considering to buy a complete assembled system. No matter how ‘cheap’ $999 can be for the delivered goods, it’s still alot of money to pay for at once.
$999 is pretty expensive for your average computer user. I think most of the John Does out there buy a computer for about $400, maybe $600, but that’s it.
No way. People in the Netherlands are more than willing to spend over €1000 for their computers. Why? Because people want the best of the best– whether that’s needed or not; whether they know anything about it or not.
As for laptops– Apple’s pricing on laptops is very competative. I don’t think you’ll be able to get a package as good as an iBook anywhere else for the price of €899.
No way. People in the Netherlands are more than willing to spend over €1000 for their computers. Why? Because people want the best of the best– whether that’s needed or not; whether they know anything about it or not.
Eh, speak for yourself 🙂
My last computer cost 100 euro (2nd hand P3-500 plus new videocard), and I can build a new flashy one for 350. I’d like a more higher end mac to play around with than my Powermac 7600, but the minimum price is what is keeping me the hell away. Higher value for money my ass and all.
PS, with more Mac users I guess we’ll start to see more of this too:
http://members.cox.net/clyqz/mac.swf
😉
I read a survey about computer prices and what the average consumer is willing to pay for a complete computer system.
Turns out a very small percentage was willing to buy sub $700 computers.
$1,200 – $1,400 was what they considered a fair price for an average computer loaded with software and monitor.
For the “best of the best” consumers were willing to spend approximately $3,000.
I don’t know where you got that figure that $1,000 somehow constitues “best of the best”
The average selling price of a computer is $700.
apple tft screen is not really quality…
any good test you can found on the web say it
“apple tft screen is not really quality..”
My 17″ powerbook is almost 3 years old and has been used intensely. At least 10 hours of use each day, give and take a day … and only two two-week holidays off. The screen is still going fine, although it is less vibrant than the new 15″ of some of my collegues.
Other collegues opted to buy high-end thinkpads (1440 screenresolution, 15″ TFT) 6 months after my purchase. Except for one, they all already have upgraded to new thinkpads or powerbooks. Reason: screen quality totally gone after just 2 years of use.
If Apple TFT quality is not good, than the IBM stuff really is bad.
My 17″ powerbook is almost 3 years old and has been used intensely. At least 10 hours of use each day, give and take a day … and only two two-week holidays off. The screen is still going fine, although it is less vibrant than the new 15″ of some of my collegues.
My 15″ Dell is the exact same way, except its 3.5 years old now. What does thatt prove? Apple quality is comparable to Dell? I wouldn’t be surprised if that were true, both because Apple isn’t as great as everybody thinks it is and Dell isn’t as bad as Apple folks say it is.
Uh, Dell is as bad as everyone, including PC users, say they are.
Dell’s are utter cheap garbage now driven by the need to increase market share by producing cheaper and cheaper computers, cutting support and R&D.
If you saw the quality and elegance of my metal PowerMac G5, Apple 30″ display, quality keyboard and mouse next to some cheap plastic dull gray Dell box running some crap OS called Windows which is a bad knockoff of Apple’s OS…
Well perhaps your a ascetic type person.
Do you know who produces the panels for Apple’s displays?
Does anyone here that’s talking about them know who makes them, or even what kind of panels they are?
Just for the sake of discussion why doesn’t someone tell everyone who makes the panels in the Dell UltraSharp 2005FPW and who makes the panels in the Apple M9177LL.
Both panels are made are made by LG Philips. However, an LCD panel does not a monitor make. The uniformity of the backlight also plays a significant role in the performance of the display. Historically, backlight quality has been one of Dell’s weaknesses. The 2005FPWs tend to have non-uniform backlights, while the 2405FPWs tend to have buzzing backlights. My 2405FPW has great screen quality, and no dead pixels, but when it gets hot, it buzzes something awful. I’ve never heard an Apple display do the same, though, Apple has their on quality-control issues (pink 23″ displays anyone?).
This is so funny. How many times do we have to go through it? First someone says the components are better. Then you point out they are the same. Then the reply comes back, maybe they are the same but the case is different. As if that mattered. Just like here. First it was the panels that were better. Now, the panels are the same, but the backlights are better.
OK, tell us, who makes the backlights?
Guys, wake up. There are good reasons for buying Macs, and Apple, if it would just put aside its control mania, and get some of its fat out, is a good company. But you need to stop telling these ridiculous stories about the hardware. It may be a perfectly good choice, but it is not better quality, it does use the same components, it is more expensive. It may still be a great buy, but you convince no-one by keeping on and on denying the obvious.
Well, you do convince a lot of us that you are all quite mad!
OK, tell us, who makes the backlights?
Hey. I’m on the side of Apple hardware generally being overrated. I’m just pointing out that the displays aren’t. Backlights in an LCD are an expensive and incredibly important part of the display. The LCD, indeed, is just a modulator for the backlight. Apple’s backlights are generally better than Dell’s (I don’t know where Apple gets theres, but I believe Dell’s are sourced from BenQ).
Fair point.
Tell me, do you think it possible that Apple is paying for shills to keep posting this nonsense on this and other forums? The posts are all similar, the lack of any serious thought is universal.
I have heard rumours that MS has been caught doing it.
What do you think?
Apple doesn’t need to pay people to shill for them. The type of Apple users that post this nonsense don’t know they are wrong. They see the big fancy aluminum case, and assume all the parts inside are just as good. Most have likely never even looked inside their Macs to see what’s in there. They just hear about how good Apple’s parts quality is then parrot it.
And remember that the quality of the hardware is very good.
Unless they use better parts in the iMac than in the PowerMac, no it’s not. it’s just average. This is another one of these Mac myths that needs to die right now!
No, they don’t. I have a G5 iMac and there’s nothing spectacular in it. They did do a good job of sticking all of it together into such a constrained space, but the parts themselves aren’t overly interesting.
Those numbers should climb higher now that Apple finally made a media center interface. I don’t use the media center part of my Wintels because iTunes is just so much easier to use. But that’s also a dangerous place for Apple because it’s not that hard to copy it. Windows Media Player makes me feel like I’m browsing slow web pages for music info compared to iTunes but with the XBox360 coming out to tie-in directly to Winmedia center pc’s through the network all MSFT has to do is change the Win Media Center interface to copy what iTunes does and then the iPod/iTunes craze will be a thing of the past.
500,000 people that switched, just last month! It’s true!
Many of those switchers will also be keeping their Windows boxes. I for one now have a G5, but I need my Windows box for my many clients who are Windows-only, and make extensive use of, for example, Access.
I have to say though, that outside of work, I very rarely fire up the XP box now. OS X is just so pleasant to work with.
I have to agree that it is highly unlikely to be true that the assumption that all of those who bought a Mac are switchers. (It is however true of those people whom I know personally).
“Many of those switchers will also be keeping their Windows boxes.”
I know I did. And now most of my Windows boxes are collecting dust. 🙂
I kept mine. Just because I felt i might need it at some point. Actually I haven’t used it for months for anything but playing games. It is a more powerful machine than my mac, but somehow I feel sick at just having to use windows.
The iPod has done wonders for Apple’s recognition. Whereas before people would simply go into a shop and buy anything that was put down, usually a PC, people now go in and specifically want a Mac.
I’m one. Although it had nothing to do with the iPod, although I have an iPod too. It has to do with the Unix underpinnings, a track record of user satsisfaction, and just general lack of interest in Windows anymore.
I’m sure there are plenty like me, who have just lost interest in how boring Windows has become.
Looking at how good Apple marketing team works and feedback from users, it could be easily more – and I won’t be surprised. Therefore, I welcome “choice of freedom” back to OS market. Yeah, there is Linux/BSD (I’m Linux user and advocat), but for people who want stylish, good looking _and_ functional desktop, OS X is here.
Of course, they still have lot of bugs to fix for me to take OS X more serious, but they will get there.
Also I love all integration stuff which ensures that OS X and Linux can work together in one network – Bonjour aka zeroconf support, CUPS usage (automatical discovery of OSX printers in Linux, no problem with that), various support of open formats (Mail uses clear, shiny mbox, Calendar generates/uses ical format without any problem to share it from Linux, etc.).
I also would like to own PowerBook, because it is one damn good and when compare prices and performance, best notebook computer. And it is stylish.
Ok, ok, I will drop my Apple hype syndrom, but really…they have their share of problems, but I really like their attitude to their own marketing – and customers.
Beautiful systems.
Crappy PC hardware fatigue.
Unix based OS with nice gui.
Tired of living on alternative OS. (Linux)
Yeah, I am going to get a mac but I am waiting until the Intel switch and then I will see about the software support.
I mean I am old enough to remember the hell the Mac folks went through for the PowerPC switch. I think I will pass on that stuff.
But man, I want a 17″ power book badly.
“I am old enough to remember the hell the Mac folks went through for the PowerPC switch.”
Are you kidding me?
The 68k to PPC transition was practically seamless. The transition was so seamless in fact that its often regarded as one of the most impressive feats Apple has done throughout its lifetime.
Kellym,
I’m a Mac user myself, but you need to get a grip. the M68K to PowerPC transition was anything but seamless. It took 2 full years and even then it cost Apple a large contingent of loyal developers, as well as customers that got caught in the middle, or left high and dry on late model 68k hardware.
By seamless he means that a PowerPC processor, which otherwise was very fast, seemed just as slow as the previous 68k because nearly every application ran in emulation and it took ages to get native PPC versions out.
Now it was seamless, in the sense that most apps just worked. And having run OSX86 I can tell you PPC emulation is just as seamless. The only difference ist that now for all devs using XCode recompilation won’t take more than a few adjustments ( I could compile my app with none).
I’ve just sold my old (PC) laptop and bought myself a brand new entry level G4 12″ iBook. My only regret is that I didn’t do this years ago. If I were you, I wouldn’t let the switch to intel put you off.
As a geek who has been unhappy using Windows and Linux for many years, Mac OS X is a pleasure to use. The only computer I’ve used in the past that I like more than the mac is the Acorn Archimedes running RISC OS 3.
> Acorn Archimedes
That sucker sure is hard to beat.
It was actually my dream machine a long time ago, but in those days nobody in Germany would sell them and then I decided on getting an Amiga. Well, it was a hairy experience. Lots of ups and downs.
There will be ten times that many once the intel Macs make a showing. I would bet a huge portion of the Windows only applications will be ported to Mac/Intel almost imediately causing people like me(Gamer only) to switch platforms post haste.
I would bet a huge portion of the Windows only applications will be ported to Mac/Intel almost imediately causing people like me(Gamer only) to switch platforms post haste.
The processor is only a minor issue when porting applications, which often doesn’t require much more than using a different compiler. No, the big problem is the API.
Now if Apple provided a Win32 implementation, e.g. by putting some serious work into wine, that would be another matter. But they’d be crazy to do that, because they’d only end up being the second-best Win32 platform, due to MS’s frequent and badly documented API changes.
@nimble:
win32 api is better documented than anything else. please name even one single api function that is not explained on msdn.com.
it it wasn’t this way, wine would have never been possible. it is only ms protcolls that arent alway documented and those are irrelevant to gamedevelopers or any other application developer.
From what I understand the main reason Wine is having trouble is because there are patents in their way.
As for documentation there’s plenty of that for the Windows SDK at MSDN, as for the Windows API and core libraries I don’t know but what I’ve heard tends to agree somewhat with what you’ve said.
they would also have to work on emulating directx on opengl with minimum to none speed loss. and then there are still many endianess problems to be taken care of, since os x is still partly big endian.
plus apple would have to start building recent gpus into there imacs instead of using lowend chips. i doubt that this will happen.
Lay off the pipe dude.
The Intel machines don’t mean Windows dev’s are going to port software in droves. Actually, the Intel switch is probably going to cost Apple a couple of big applications that don’t have real maintainers ready to spend the time and money to port the software, and then there is the other segment of dev’s that are hearing ‘Cocoa Java is dead’, Carbon is becoming a second class citizen, Cocoa Objective C is the future of Mac OS X dev… This is going to cost some projects ( I know of a couple that are already dead for these reasons ).
That doesn’t mean the switch isn’t a good thing, it is, but there will be initial pain.
I was quite shocked to boot my Mac Mini for the first time and realize – hang on, I don’t have to spend the next four hours installing AV/Firewall/Anti-Spyware/Firefox/Patches/A Slew of Software 5GB long…
It kind of knocks you off your feet the first time. A computer you can switch and make use of straight away – an incredible thing.
Yeah, and that would be a false assumption in some cases.
My G5 install process.
1. Mail.app is unusable on IMAP (at least it lacks too many features and it has bloathed design). Need to install Thunderbird. As Thunderbird install is insecure (same goes for every software that is installed by dragging app icon to Applications. Reasons below) you have to manualy change application flags so that they are not modifiable by any process that is runnning on desktop. At the same time I install FFox too, although I can’t say that Safari wouldn’t be adequate (it is). Linux has Evolution.
2. No office suite. Have to install that. It is either going with the devil, going with something not native or not having some functionality. Pages does not count as full Office suite. So, free and not native or cost. Neither has Windows, but at least OO.o is not some alien software there (it behaves much more native). NeoOffice is out of question, ODF is almost a must for me. But I can live with doc to. Linux contains it by install.
3. No decent picture editor (iPhoto is not a picture editor) and as I’m most used to Gimp that requires inserting Install CD and installing X11. Next is downloading and installing Fink (which caused me a lot of troubles on 10.4) and apt-get install gimp. It looks and worksnon-native: typical martian blends into the public. Have tried OSX version Seahorse or what but it still has too many problems. Same on Windows, except that martian is not so martian. Linux already installed that.
4. No vector drawing software that supports SVG. So here it is again. Either something not native or buying software. Neither has Windows. But my primary platform is Linux and I’m used to have everything ready to go. So I consider this as a lowdown. Same as Gimp for Windows, Linux apt-get install inkscape.
6. FTP support in Finder is worth as much as nothing. Too clumsy to be usable (Even Explorer does a better job here). Here we are downloading again. Linux, gftp.
7. Next in line is burner. Included is just as effective as nothing. Toast here we go. Windows default does better job on Files, worster on music. So on Windows installing Nero or something like that is a must. Linux k3b.
8. Quicktime does not support too many video formats, so vlc or mplayer for OSX, here we come. Windows, install allin1. Linux install mplayer.
9. Next in line is a replacement for Terminal.app, which is the worst terminal emulation after cmd in windows. Here we go again, but I still haven’t found any decent native alternative. Windows putty, linux already has zillion of adequate terminals.
10. PDF reader on OSX is unusable. I often get corentions made with Acrobat. You can’t see those as you can in Acrobat. So, Acrobat here we come. Same on Windows and Linux.
11. Spyware, no need on Linux or OSX. Must on Windows.
12. Antivirus. I don’t need that, it already runs on my server and I never ever install anything which I’m not sure of. Same for Mac and Linux.
Not to go further. Installing Mac is just as much pain in the ass as Windows and no way as simple as on linux (for me, not talking generally). Last install on Ubuntu was put in CD, wait, enable universe and multiverse, select packages (well I just copy and paste one line for apt demand in terminal), finished. Trouth is that after installing my G5 desktop looks likes rainbow. Almost every software is using different toolkit. Windows does better job here. Linux is the most constant.
Why is drag’n’drop install dangerous. Just drag some application in Applications. Look at the flags in terminal. User writable. Any process which runs in your account can simply modify one line in (which every) something.app/Contents/info.plist or so (don’t remember exactly) and your application suddenly runs as “rm -rf / & && application”. I know files could be unerased, but I cn’t afford my self to be constantly voulnerable. A solution to this problem (yes, it is simple) is creating another account. Logging as other user and start drag’n’droping app files. Logging out and logon as your self (Nobody does that).
p.s. I bet all Mac fans will mod this down to hell, but every time I see some comment like that parent posted (how OSX is the next gods message) pisses me off and I have to respond.
If your Mac has correct permissions to start with (it should by default in 10.4, though I did see some odd behaviours with 10.3 boxes updated to 10.4 not clean install.) Drag-n-drop should require authentication, and result in correct permissions (owned by system, exec by wheel, read-only).
FWIW, your comments are absolutely on the mark, but the process is identical for all OSes, install core, install needed tools, configure, use. The problem is that OS X has a good subset of required tools, Windows has a slightly less robust base toolkit. Linux on the other hand tends to come with everything to enhance it’s percieved value, it ships with more Free Software (much of it illsuited to the needs of the user). The only difference is that the time I spend toggling off the things I don’t need (FVWM2 for example), and toggling on the things I do (Gnome on my SUSE installs) and then waiting and configuring more than balances out to the time I spend running through about 25/20 drag-ndrop installs followed by a quick permissions repair (Disk Utility). Bear in mind, that I typicall transfer my Library folder to bring across in my installed software recieipts 🙂
If your Mac has correct permissions to start with (it should by default in 10.4, though I did see some odd behaviours with 10.3 boxes updated to 10.4 not clean install.) Drag-n-drop should require authentication, and result in correct permissions (owned by system, exec by wheel, read-only).
Factory default of 10.4 was like I said for me. But I will check now with the last update and if it finally works, well… last time I mentioned that bug|feature
FWIW, your comments are absolutely on the mark, but the process is identical for all OSes, install core, install needed tools, configure, use. The problem is that OS X has a good subset of required tools, Windows has a slightly less robust base toolkit. Linux on the other hand tends to come with everything to enhance it’s percieved value, it ships with more Free Software (much of it illsuited to the needs of the user).
Yes and as such Linux is the fastest to set up.
The only difference is that the time I spend toggling off the things I don’t need (FVWM2 for example), and toggling on the things I do (Gnome on my SUSE installs) and then waiting and configuring more than balances out to the time I spend running through about 25/20 drag-ndrop installs followed by a quick permissions repair (Disk Utility). Bear in mind, that I typicall transfer my Library folder to bring across in my installed software recieipts 🙂
Ubuntu, basic? Settings work out just fine for me. Actualy as soon as I dumbed down my needs (no more installing enlightenment), I started missing less and less with time, actualy finding things where they are. Now you couldn’t drag me back to complex window managers. And installing Suse for using Gnome? [sracasm]Why not code your own environment?[/sarcasm]. I use Gnome so I just select best Gnome distro with best default settings. And time flies here.
That would be my desktop . As for servers… Well that is another story for me. Completely built by me and for example possible migration of complete configuration in a minute + disk mirroring? Again two liner for a complete server migration. But on the other hand, servers are my job. Desktop is just one of the tools. But still I managed to write simple apt-get install a b c d e. For example my development machine, Ubuntu. Everything in time when CD finished + opening web browser and terminal, copy pasting the “apt-get install a b” web centents and going out pleased with the job I did. Computer can install him self, why would he need me? I’m more productive drinking beer at the pub than waiting before screen.
Oh sweet jesus,
If your whining about the small things on Mac OS X and ignoring the glaring problems of Linux and Windows you must have your head examined.
Another twaty Mac fan. When was the last time you actually used Linux?
Other than a pretty brushed metal look, and pretty form factors what does OsX do that Linux doesnt?
Doing and doing well are not the same things :-), but since you brought it up..
Drag-n-drop installation.
Systemwide Clipboard that actually works (KDE Apps work with KDE Apps, Gnome Apps with Gnome Apps, X11, Athena widgets etc. It *might* work in some cases, but not universally.
Oh and did I mention that ./configure;make;make install does not an installer make ? apt-get, ports, rpm etc aren’t significantly better. think about the dependancy hell that is your typical RPM installation.
In short Linux *can* do everything that OS X and Windows can, what it can’t do is do all of those things well at the level of an average consumer. That is the problem with this argument though. You and I, we are geeks, and our very personality traits make us ill-suited to have this argument, because we *can* program a VCR to not flash 12:00, we actually know what CPU,RAM and GB are. We know that a computer memory isn’t measured in 1000’s but in 1024’s (technically smaller but let’s not confuse the issue).
What OS X does is make things approachable. Windows does too. The difference between the two is that Windows makes things usable for your basic moron, approachable for you basic middle manager (assuming he has a technie to fall back on), fun for an entry level techie that feels like he’s accomplished something navigating the registry or removing a virus, impossible for someone that doesn’t want to reach around their 4$$ to do anything advanced.
Linux is just the opposite, it’s built for the hardcore power users. It’s everyone else that has to suffer (by the way, that ‘everyone else’ outnumbers us geek / tech weenies roughly 500 to 1 in most of the world, and closer to 10000 to 1 in the rest).
OS X on the other hand is approachable and usable at all of those levels, and let’s you geek it up, or dumb it down as much as needed.
That’s the difference. Just doing it, and doing it well, but that’s something that only those with enough of a grounding in the world of technical idiots will ever grasp.
ignoring the glaring problems of Linux
Which would be????
My workstation. Ubuntu cd, wait. Open browser, copy paste one command from my web server to terminal, enjoy beer at the pub.
My Linux install is finished here.
1. What’s wrong with Mail.app? I use it, and find it very nice. (Not as nice as Kmail in some respects, but still nice.) I haven’t really had any problems with IMAP myself, so I’m curious what you mean here.
2. Agree.
3. What about Seashore? (http://seashore.sourceforge.net) I haven’t tried it myself yet, though.
4. Agree.
6. Agree. Finder’s FTP feature is downright despicable. I find myself using NCFTP in the terminal all the time. Wouldn’t mind having Konqueror running properly in OS X.
7. There doesn’t seem to be an alternative to Toast, unfortunately. I really miss K3B.
8. Agree completely. Quicktime is completely useless for anything but .mov files in my opinion. Mplayer on OS X isn’t really very good, and neither is Xine. VLC get a “OK, this sucks slightly less” from me, but barely.
9. Hmm. The only downside that I have found with Terminal.app is that it doesn’t support tabs. If I could have Konsole, I’d be happy, but alas. Other than the lack of tabs, what do you find wrong with it?
10. I really really like Preview.app for PDFs, but then again, I never receive any corrections from Acrobat, so I have no experience with this. Too bad Acrobat is soooooooooo sloooooow.
11-12. Yep, this is a nice bonus with OS X and Linux 🙂
As for installing OS X versus Linux, I don’t have much experience. I’ve installed 10.4 once, and that went well enough. On my Linux boxes, I installed Gentoo back in 2002, and haven’t really had to reinstall anything, so that’s not really an issue for me. My last Windows install, however, was a huge trial in patience. It took 9 reboots before it was all patched up and ready for its one an only purpose: upgrade the firmware on my DVD burner. All in all I must say I found installing Windows at least an order of a magnitude worse than OS X.
And I must say I agree completely when it comes to the toolkits on the mac. They’re all different, for some strange reason, and they all have their little differences and inconsistencies here and there. At least my KDE desktop is integrated and consisted. Still love my mac, though. 🙂
p.s. I bet all Mac fans will mod this down to hell, but every time I see some comment like that parent posted (how OSX is the next gods message) pisses me off and I have to respond.
Can’t see a single thing in your post that should get you modded down.
1. Mail.app is not so bad until you have two imap accounts. Missing a lot of corporate features. But for single basic pop account as home user is nice (maybe the nicest one). Trouble is that I have 5 e-mails (IMAP) and other busseness needs.
3. What about Seashore? (http://seashore.sourceforge.net) I haven’t tried it myself yet, though.
Yeah, I ment that one but missed the name. Just way of usual Gimp feeling.
1. I’ve got, let me check… 7 IMAP addresses and 6 pop addresses, and I don’t have any problems. Maybe you’ve been unlucky or I’ve been lucky. Who knows.
3. Haven’t tried it myself, but it looks like a early clone of Gimp. I don’t know how much he’s implemented yet either. Hmm. I should really try it someday to check how it is.
OK you do have some quite specific requirements, so of cours you will have to download some software, but you’ll have to do the same on Linux or Windows then, so I don’t get your point.
1. Mail.app is unusable on IMAP
Hmmm…. works perfect for me. I’ve got my own gmail so to speak with hundreds of megs of mail on the server. Pretty flawless. What are you missing with IMAP?
Thunderbird sucks a big banana. It can’t even open attachments directly, but it has to puke the file somewhere on my HD first to open it. Hopeless.
2. Why is NeoOffice out of the Question? It works for me, even with Japanese support and everything.
3. Gimp.app or GimpSHOP.app drag and drop installer, you only need X11, but no finking there. Also there are lots of freeware image editors (simple ones, OK, but they are around).
4. Well that’s a bit specific, so go and buy some software if you can’t live without SVG support.
5. missing
6. FTP: Cyberduck is GPLed and pure Cocoa. Very, very nice. You can even open text files from the FTP server via doubleclicking and upload them by simply saving in the text editor (there are also quite a few very nice Text Editors on OS X, ever tried SubEthaEdit? This let’s several people edit one document simultaneously via Bonjour).
7. For most purposes burning CDs with the Finder is just fine. Then there ar e tons of free and even GPLed tools for burning CDs. MissingMediaBurner, DiscBurner.app, BurnXFree, AquaCDBurn and so on
8. QuickTime supports many formats via plug-ins. Even ogg audio.
9. iTerm with tabbed windows is pretty good, but I really don’t know what problems you’ve got with Terminal
10. PDF issues… Same on Windows and Linux. Well, then flame Adobe for their proprietary stuff.
I always wanted to get myself a Mac, but I too was put off by the cost. Then the Mini was released and two months after getting one I got myself a Power Mac G5 and an iPod Mini. Now, my AMD64 is collecting dust, another AMD is only started in order to watch films and TV series.
I now hate every minute I have to spend in windows at clients and am extremely pleased about not having to touch it at home.
Guess I’m a golden example of a switcher.
How many Mac to Linux converts after they realize all the sofware and proprietary hardware costs big bucks! 😉
Actually… believe me or not, I only know windows to linux converts.. who are now linux to mac converts.
Anyone switching from a mac to linux would do it for only one reason. Their time isn’t worth the price difference. Everytime I spend several days trying to get some hardware piece (or worse some software piece) working on Linux I could have bought me a new mac.
Their time isn’t worth the price difference.
As someone with both a Linux machine and a PowerMac, I wouldn’t say that this is the case. The OS X machine just sits there and works. My Ubuntu machine also just sits there and works. My laptop (which now has Win2K on it), well, its so infested that I can’t connect it to the internet anymore.
Everytime I spend several days trying to get some hardware piece (or worse some software piece) working on Linux
If you’d take 30 seconds to check the HCL before you buy, you wouldn’t have these problems. You can’t buy random crap from CompUSA and install it into the Mac either, you know. I recently needed a TV card for my Linux machine. 30 seconds told me I should get one of the WinTV cards. I plugged it in, Ubuntu detected it, and I was watching TV. Same thing with my iPod, or any of the other hardware I’ve tried on the machine.
People who bitch about hardware troubles on Linux usually do so because they bought or built a machine designed for Windows, and are now trying to run Linux on it. That, of course, gives a completely unfair advantage to Windows. When I built my PC, I designed it expressly to run Linux. Interestingly enough, its Windows that has trouble running in it (it’s got a SATA boot drive).
Ahh, the old myth that macs “just work”. I have a friend who has a Mac, and I use Linux or sometimes Windows.
Now considering that hardly any hardware vendor specifially write drivers for linux, it works really well. Wirless networking was a pain to set up with ndis wrapper and the windows drivers, but now it is going it works perfectly.
The friend who has a Mac cant even get his basic webcam to work on it. (Mine was detected automatically under linux).
People who claim that linux is too hard to use should have a look at one of the recent versions, (Suse 10, Kubuntu, Mandriva). The only problems I have are related to drivers not being available for the hardware I am using.
Macs, are not imune to this, otherwise everyone would be plugging in cheap PC hardware into their Macs (unless they got a mini that can barely be upgraded without spending a small fortune).
I used MacOS7.x-9.x and I really hate it. It was more unstable then win3.1 and the user interface was very unproductive and dumb. I never tired the MacOSX, but if I want a *nix with nice graphical user interface I use linux with KDE.
Wow, really nice comment. I mean you haven’t even tried OSX but you are “sure” that is sucks. Did I understand you correctly?
I agree with you that OS 7-9 were not very good (just my opinion), however, OSX is light years ahead of OS9. You might want to put it through it paces before bashing it.
Mac OS before OS X was pathetic (far behind Windows 9x). Believe me, the Darwin base for OS X is quite stable (especially compare to OS9).
The question is, do you like Mac (the gui stuff)?
Tell ya what, try Windowmaker for about 3 days; if you like that sort of feel you’ll probably like the current Mac system. Mind you, ignore the ugly graphics in Windowmaker, just focus on the way you manipulate programs.
I think you don’t get it. The mac is not about being cute. It IS cute but I agree linux with a good theme can be as cute.
It’s about being so damn simple you wonder how you could have lost so much time just getting things working. On linux everytime you wish to try an app that’s not in the mainstream, which means not in your package management you might as well recompile the whole operating system and end up abandoning (my usual choice).
I left linux (as a desktop) because of that. When I want to try an app I don’t have to wonder for what version of glibc version it is. It will just run. Aside from BeOS I have just never seen anything like OSX in terms of user-friendliness where simplicity is in the design itself.
All of you crying how much more expensive a Mac is never honestly used a Mac before!!!
We cant afford to rich kid!
I’m a ‘switcher’too; only I switched from BeOS as my main os to OSX. Does that count too?
.
I bought a mac this year. An ibook. I still use my desktop running gentoo though. Don’t normally run windows.
People will gladly pay top dollar to escape from the hell of MS windows. Take that and dance with it Balmy. Must really smart to see that illegal monopoly slipping through your fingers totally clueless on how to reverse the tide.
(opening of future MS+Apple commercial)
Tired of bugs, spyware, viruses, all that nasty stuff?
-circus music begins-
Switch to Mac OSX! Heck, we’re even running on your PC, that’s right, the same PC you ran Windows on.
But guess what, switching is easy because with Mac OSX, you can still enjoy all of the Windows software you enjoyed using on Windows.
-jobs and gates cartoon figures, dressed in Beatles Yellow Submarine cartoon attire dance out hand and hand, hug each other and pick a flower, smell it, and smile as they look lovingly into each others eyes as if it were the first time-
WE ALL LIVE IN A REDMOND MACHINE
A REDMOND MACHINE
A REDMOND MACHINE
a refurbished 1.25G 40 gig 256M from apple.com it was only 379$ sense I wanted a quiet system for browsing the web and playing movies as well as wanting to test drive OSX I picked one up. The system ran OK for only 256M but would choke too much so I pulled a 512 stick out of my pc tower and put it in the mini. while 256 was more then useable coming from a system with 1 gig of ram you have a tendency to notice the delays from swapping.
My only complaints about the mini are the lack of a built in rca video out (or a svideo with rca adapter) , inability of the mini to do core image, and the small hard drive. I didn’t think the hard drive would of bothered me as much as it did guess im just not used to managing hard drive space
I don’t think I’m a full switcher just yet as sometimes a need a system with more power for games/video encoding/ect. and I just don’t have the money for a powermac
Reading the article .. here is a serious assumption this article makes that I find flawed..
“If we assume that all of the growth in Mac shipments during the past three quarters resulted from Windows users purchasing a Mac, then purchases by Windows users exceeded one million,” the analyst said. “Indeed, the number of Windows users purchasing Macs in 2005 could easily exceed our forecast of 1.3 million switchers in 2006.”
They are assuming that all of the growth is by Windows users switching to Mac. How do we know that it’s not a repeat customer buying another mac? I am sure there is some growth, and a lot of people switched.. but saying that all of them switched over to Mac from Windows is just plain wrong.
Am I the only one seeing this ??
Btw, at the end of the article there is another bit of information..
“Needham & Co. reiterated its 2006 earnings per share estimate at $1.75.”
Needham and Co is the company which made the switch statement.. wait a sec.. they are an investment firm… hmmm.. could I consider this as a special interest influenced article ????
“How do we know that it’s not a repeat customer buying another mac?”
Because market share is determined by an actual purchase. Existing Mac users would have predictable replacement cycles. Theres no reason they would suddenly increase so drammatically like that if it were primarily the existing install base.
The increase in growth is primarily coming from Windows switchers.
1. Can I get a Apple Mother board when they go intel or do I need a whole new system (Mac graphic card) I never got why you just couldn’t get a Mac graphic driver.
2. The OS is $120 even for upgrades right?
3. Will my PC software work for mac when they go intel, ofcourse I have AMD so I would need a new case.
4, I would still beable to use my Intelimouse Explorer (USB) right? That Mac mouse looks like a pain to use.
5. Hate to say it, but I am kind of tired of linux as a alt. os.
1. This is a wait and see. Although it is unlikely. You have to live with not opening your machine on a daily basis. For a lot of people they can’t live without totally upgrading their machine manually. You can change graphic card / RAM on a Mac, but the blunt of it is that you buy a Mac to last, and they do. (G3’s can still run Tiger nicely)
2. Every 12- 18 months Apple tend to release a new version of OSX. Sometimes the changes are huge and sometimes they are not. Sometimes many of the changes will apply to what you will do and sometimes they will not and it won’t seem worthwhile. The long and short is that the OSX API stabilized at 10.2 and reached maturity at 10.4. Almost all software will work on 10.2 or above, some 10.1 or above, and some very rare stuff that makes use of the hardware acceleration in 10.4. Since 10.4 is the current version and the API is very mature and stable, backwards support for 10.4 is likely to be around for a very long time.
3. On Macintel you’ll be able to dualboot Windows and OSX. I suspect that eventually emulation / VM software will be available so you can run Windows inside OSX.
4. Yes. All mice are supported without need for drivers. Extended buttons might not work or default to Back / Forward behaviour.
5. Personally I’m not tired of the OS, I’m tired of the people. They need to grow up if ever they want to achieve something.
“2. The OS is $120 even for upgrades right? “
I don’t have or use a Mac yet, but I’m pretty sure I can still give a good answer to this one.
You don’t have to keep running the latest version of an OS when it’s released, I stayed with Windows 98 for a long time before I finally had to get XP. I know people running versions of Linux they installed a few years ago even though updates there are either very affordable on upgrade pricing or free.
If the newer OS version is so tempting that you can’t resist spending the money then wouldn’t it be safe to assume it’s worth the cost?
The Ipod is ugly to look at, it is cold, and looks like a piece of children toy.
The GUI is not very user friendly, you cant control it without looking (standard one).
There is no built in radio, the head speakers are medium quality.
And the OSX, hmm looks again like something for children, with all the weird zooming effetcs (can be turned of but still).
The OS is wierd to work with, and mostly all the programs you are used to use on Windows, does not exist on OSX.
But there is one good reason to change:
.
.
.
.
.
Sorry can’t find it.
huh? OSx looks likes something for children? zooming effects are usually visual cues. They enable you to understand what it going on on the screen without paying attention. OS X is BSD unix and is hardly a children’s toy.
Can you name some common apps that dont run on OSX? MS Office, dreamweaver, photoshop, aim, yahoo, msn, skype, IE, firefox, opera .. etc etc all exist on OSX . There are OSX apps like iphoto and imovie HD (until recently, itunes) which really have no counterpart on the PC side.
Hmmm, I give this a 2 out of a possible 10 on the troll scale.
Please try again.
“And the OSX, hmm looks again like something for children, with all the weird zooming effetcs (can be turned of but still).”
What would you say Windows XP looks like then? When I first saw it I thought MS might start selling it at Toys ‘r Us. It’s got bright colours, no effects mind you but the icons and key parts of the OS look like they were taken from toys or cartoons.
Vista comes to mind too, with the new added visual effects which are very much along the same lines of what OS X has. I think MS saw that the visual effects actually do make a difference in how the user percieves and understands the user interface and because of that they are copying.
p.s. I have a lot on MAC’s and i hated every second of it.
Only being forced to use emacs for coding Java was worse.
Hmmm I give this a 1 out of 10 on the troll scale.
Please try again.
Please don’t ask trolls to try again, we can only vote so many times :-p
1 million extra sales doesn’t equate to 1 million converts.
I myself find mac’s quite desirable but it’s doubtful I would make one my primary machine.
Is it just me, or is every comment copy and pasted from last weeks article.
<Is it just me, or is every comment copy and pasted from last weeks article.[/i]
Yeah it makes one wonder if there’s a script running on someone’s server somewhere that auto-generates certain types of replies to any Apple article the bot might find. “I’ve used one for years to my great happyness.” “Windows users getting fed up with malware, I’ve converted” “I have one besides my linux box”.
And then Microsoft’s bot responds with “Pfff what advantages does Mac give?” “Expensive hardware!” (in turn replied to with “No, greater value for your money’s worth!”) etc etc.
Although this was posted before my comments I guess it applies to me. Oh well, I realize I DO write the same things several times. It just happens to be true each and everytime I feel writing them 🙂
If this is true, it’s fantastic. Not because of any fanboyism on my part, but because monocultures are very bad no matter what situation you’re talking about.
… they are from “that other OS alternative” mainly, but not Windows. Windows has already all you need + all the applications you’ll ever want. Why would one want to switch beside wanting to bash on Microsoft or just to show off or look “cool” ???
… they are from “that other OS alternative” mainly, but not Windows.
Dude! I thought so too! Then I realized that since no one uses the greasy kid stuff anyway, how could a MILLION folks give it up fer the Mac? There’s no source for a million of ’em to give up and switch if there’s only a few of ’em out there to begin with…
They would switch because they are tired of dealing with viruses and spyware and see the Mac’s(Mac OSX’s) beauty and simplicity.
That’s why I’m switching anyway
There’s at least one switcher from windows: my wife.
My wife had been doing all her work on a HP desktop and decided she’d like to be more mobile. We bought her an iBook and after just a couple of days, she gave me permission to put Linux on her old machine (she had previously made me promise that I’d leave it untouched just in case she needed to do something that the mac couldn’t do).
As for laptops– Apple’s pricing on laptops is very competative. I don’t think you’ll be able to get a package as good as an iBook anywhere else for the price of €899.
You got to be kidding.The cheapest i-book you can buy in the Netherlands is €1039.Where is it possible to buy one for €899 if i may ask?
You got to be kidding.The cheapest i-book you can buy in the Netherlands is €1039.Where is it possible to buy one for €899 if i may ask?
By being smart. Buy a new iBook in the first 2-3 months after they updated the line. Then, your local Apple reseller will have a stock of ‘old’ iBooks which will be sold at €899.
This strategy can be applied to all Macs.
p.s. I bet all Mac fans will mod this down to hell, but every time I see some comment like that parent posted (how OSX is the next gods message) pisses me off and I have to respond.
I use hardware and software according to my needs.Yet i still have to find a reason to switch over to OSx.I guess OSx came a bit too late.We played at shool with the first commodore 64 and a cassette player as HD.Ehm, it didn’t have a mouse.
I am a Linux user but I consider the Mac a great value for the money. 3 years ago I belonged to the group that hoped for and predicted an Intel-based Mac but was repeatedly shouted down by Mac zealots who considered the PPC Mac the holy grail of computing. Today they have egg on their faces and it feels so good to be right.
Today I will make another set of predictions.
1) Apple will buy RedHat Linux and start selling Linux servers pre-installed and pre-configured
2) Apple will add an emulation layer that will be able to run any gnome and KDE applications without re-compilation, thereby opening OSX to more than 10,000 open source applications.
3) Apple will produce a download copy of OSX that will sell for under $40 thereby making any talk a Linux desktop totally irrelevant.
4)Apple will capture 50% of the desktop market within 5 years
6)Sun Microsystems will become irrelevant and die as all the non-IBM (*)nix business will gravitate to Apple.
Let the flame wars begin
I disagree with point 1, we’ll just have to see who get’s egg on their face. Why would Apple buy another OS when their current one works fine.
Point number 2 might or might not happen. I doubt it would make a difference anyway since there was already some effort put in to port KOffice and KMail to OS X. I would have been so happy if they had succeeded since I love KOffice, but I haven’t heard any news on that since the initial announcement that it was partially working. OS X is built off FreeBSD, if I’m not mistaken wouldn’t that mean it’s POSIX compliant? In which case it wouldn’t be hard to port existing apps, probably easier in fact to port the few OS X needs than to write an entire emulation layer for an OS which is still changing as any alive OS does.
Point 3 has to be a joke, it doesn’t matter of OS X were free, Linux would still be around. Linux isn’t just a Windows alternative, people don’t simply use it because it’s free. Linux is a culture.
Point 4 is Ok with me.
Where’s five?
Point 6 doesn’t add up, Sun has other products besides servers and Solaris. Sun could always restructure itself and focus on it’s other products such as StarOffice which is probably the best Office suite for Windows and Linux. They may even work on an OS X port once they consider it a worthwhile investment, in which case I’d be almost as happy as if KOffice were fully ported to OS X.
“Let the flame wars begin”
This is OSNews, not a roman circus.
Apple will produce a download copy of OSX that will sell for under $40 thereby making any talk a Linux desktop totally irrelevant.
Apple’s strenght is the small amount of hardware supported.The comfort and service people are used to will go down the drain.I can hardly believe the whole x86(_64) can or will be supported execpt again the Apple boxen themself.
(Would still be nice though,i’m sure i will get OSx and all the hardware running if i wanted)
they aren’t suggesting every sale was to a switcher, that would be 4 million plus then, they are saying, if all the extra sales over the “normal” amount are..
I am an avid XP user but I use it mainly because I am accustomed to it and that I can play some games occasionally. Basically I can get my work done. But I think XP has been limiting my experience of computing and I think that the next gen OS X is my answer. I have already decided on the Mac setup I want…quadcore G5 or whatever is latest by the time the next gen OS X comes out.
I will need it mainly for DCC purposes, but still until Mac comes out with SLI and at least room for 2 x SCSI in Raid 0 and 2 x 500 gig SATA2 hdds in RAID 0 as well as dual dvd burners, I will still be leaning on the XP setups.
I think Mac is lacking a lot in the hardware department there. I dont see why Nvidia wont provide a Mac solution for SLI if apple asked for it. But operating systemwise…there is no comparison to OS X from a usability standpoint.
What I’m looking forward to more than the switch is the head-to-head competition of OS X 10.5 versus Vista. Every time a new OS has come out from Apple in the last few years, there’s been an endless stream of tech columnsists comparing it to Microsoft’s powerpoint slides for Longhorn. “How does Jaguar compare to Longhorn?”, “Panther vs. Longhorn Shootout!”, “How does Tiger stack up to Longhorn?” etc. Finally, we’ll have a real comparison between OS X actual shipping Microsoft product instead of a bunch of hand-wavy feature descriptions from Gates and Ballmer. (Really, wouldn’t if be more fair for all these tech pundits to be comparing Tiger to Windows XP? Or maybe that would just be too cruel.)
Steve Jobs has already said that they are going to ship Leopard at the same time that Vista ships. That will be the real start of the OS Wars. I wonder who’s going to have the bigger lines outside the stores that night? I’d put my money on Apple. A Windows release hasn’t been exciting since Windows 95. When I went to pick up Tiger at the Apple Store in Pasadena earlier this year, I had to wait in line for almost an hour just to enter the store, the line stretched all the way down the block and around the corner! The confused looks on the faces of the passersby was priceless.
Look at the queues to get Brttney tickets. Does that make her music any good?
Bought a mini in the spring. Didn’t turn on the w2k box for nearly 6 months. I now access the w2k box via remote desktop from the mac (I use it for dot net development).
You aren’t alone, and with Mono now running on the Mac, and a couple of efforts to make Mono a full peer development tool for both Web and GUI apps on the Mac you may even get to ditch that W2k box before long…
Cool. I wouldn’t run mono on the mini though. Maybe the next gen mini will be good enough…
I just wish apple fully supported a really modern language in it’s next version ofthe OS. Java is fine but half supported (no coreImage, getting deprecated) and still requires a VM. Objective-C isn’t bad (been practising) but you always end up mixing plain old C.
Apple , where are all the official mono bindings making C# the official language…
I am going to be laughing my ass off at all of you clowns over the next year or two as Apple is stuck with the Intel processor roadmap disaster.
Remember that the garbage Intel is putting out today dimwits like you two years ago were talking about the exciting new Intel chips coming out this year. What a joke.
Not only Intel’s current processors a industry joke, the stuff they have PLANNED years down the road is a joke. And that is making the generous assumption that those plans don’t get pushed even farther back.
And AMD isn’t looking any better down the road. Their next big chip has been canned. x86 is looking like a huge disaster.
After Steve Jobs blew the IBM relationship, Intel based Macs became Apple desktop Exit Strategy. Enjoy another few months in the fantasy world where Apple can survive as not only an x86 OEM, but an x86 OEM that has to fund and support its own operating system.
So sad. So pathetic.
From what platform are you going to be doing this from? Paper and pencil?
And AMD isn’t looking any better down the road.
And what exactly does IBM have up their sleeve? Cell? A rehashed G5? None of those can compete, as a general purpose processor, with todays x86 chips, much less the ones from next year. A Power5+ based consumer chip might do the trick, but one of those doesn’t seem t be in the cards.
x86 is looking like a huge disaster.
And PowerPC (on the desktop) has been a huge disaster.
PowerPC on the desktop has been acceptable I’d say. The huge disaster is the stagnation with G4 in the laptops that have gained like 0.00001 mhz since last year (I might be exagerating a little bit).
The huge disaster is the stagnation with G4 in the laptops that have gained like 0.00001 mhz since last year (I might be exagerating a little bit).
Yes this is an exaggeration, the speed bump was much less. ;-D
I am glad they switched (if they did).
It’s most likeliy those people who were surprised and whined about all the spyware and pop-ups they get after downloading kewl iconpacks, kitty cursors, cute callendars and other filth from Gator and company.
Dealing with “oh Mac is so much cooler” is easier than with “I sware! I didn’t download anything from that gay web site! I didn’t even go to that gay web site…”
The more people of the “switching” kind actually switch, the better for us – Windows people.
MS products are one of the only real exports America has. I will continue to use it 50/50 with Linux/mac/unix based systems. IT’s not as bad as many people try to make it sound. At least Windows is more stable in a business sense than some of the linux distros out there. Example: Red Hat Desktop stopped for Fedora core. Suse fires programmer and switches to gnome… I could go on and on. Mac’s are nice but the Linux distros have to many branches – it’s the strength and weakness of Linux.
… but I’m a Microsoft systems guy by trade and I just converted this year. I haven’t had this much fun with a computer since the Amiga and C64. The OS is elegant and as simple or as complex as you want to make it. In addition to me, I know of one other Microsoft Systems guy that flipped over. I have talked two family members into them. So I think the assumption might be a safe one. People are sick of Microsoft churning out crap that needs to be patched every five minutes. Try doing that to 200 application servers (all needing a reboot).
I remember in the late ’90s in college, when an Apple commercial would come on, we would boo. I considered a Mac on someone’s desk to be a sign that they really had no clue. Our computer labs were half Windows 98, half Mac OS 9. The Windows stations were always taken, and the OS 9 stations were always open. Network was so slow, they were so unstable, they seriously made Windows 98 look like the OS of the Gods compard to that garbage.
That’s all different now. Thank god they scrapped that old OS 9 codebase and came in with something fresh from scratch. Now they’ve leapfrogged Windows by what feels like a decade. I’ve got two Macs now (a 12″ Powerbook and a Mac mini), and I only use the Dell laptop for work because we’re a Windows-only shop. I’ve talked my parents, my sister, my aunt and uncle, and many friends into buying Macs. They were all sick and tired of popups, spyware and viruses, and the Mac offered them a remedy to all of those problems while giving them so much more than they ever had on Windows.
Now, in 2005, using Windows XP feels like what using OS 9 felt like in 1999. It’s just boring, outdated, clumsy, and restrictive. Now, to me, the sign of somebody who doesn’t have a clue is somebody with a Windows XP desktop, Luna blue theme, icons strewn across the desktop like garbage and a system tray that takes up 3/4 of the taskbar.
Seriously, it’s unbelieveable what Apple has achieved in this decade. People who are still anti-Mac probably haven’t used one since OS 9, and understandably still have a bad taste in their mouths from it. But they really owe it to themselves and their sanity to take a look at the new Apple.
If you had told me back in 1999 that in six years time I would have two Macs and that I would love the Mac OS and hate Windows, it would be like you telling me now that in six years I’ll access the Internet through AOL and I’ll love it. Just unbelievable. And that’s how dramatic this transformation has been.
“Thank god they scrapped that old OS 9 codebase and came in with something fresh from scratch.”
As I reall it’s not from scratch. OS X has it’s kernel based off Darwin which itself is based off FreeBSD’s kernel if I’m not mistaken.
“Seriously, it’s unbelieveable what Apple has achieved in this decade. People who are still anti-Mac probably haven’t used one since OS 9”
I almost went anti-mac because of the way some of the fans treated me, it’s a good think they weren’t the only ones I’ve met. The only reason I’m still Mac-friendly today is because of some friends of mine switched and then told me about the OS and it’s benifits. In many of my former experiences with mac fans I was called everything from a software pirate to a thief to dog shit for not already having a Mac.
I don’t doubt most of those people were trolls, but I still found it interesting how none of the decent mac fans would tell them off for it.
As I reall it’s not from scratch. OS X has it’s kernel based off Darwin which itself is based off FreeBSD’s kernel if I’m not mistaken.
Darwin is based on 4.4BSD-Lite2 and Mach 3.0, two rather crufty technologies by now. The FreeBSD association is only for a small part of the code (networking).
In many of my former experiences with mac fans I was called everything from a software pirate to a thief to dog shit for not already having a Mac.
Who cares what the Mac fans are like? It’s not like anybody is forcing you to hang out on macnn.com or whatever.
Yes, how true, you are sadly right.
The Mac Zealots and Mac Evangelists are the greatest downside that any platform could possibly have. If you want a Mac, you just have to hold your nose and buy it, and don’t associate with them.
In many of my former experiences with mac fans I was called everything from a software pirate to a thief to dog shit for not already having a Mac.
I don’t doubt most of those people were trolls, but I still found it interesting how none of the decent mac fans would tell them off for it.
Interesting indeed. I remember when I only had a Mac and my friends who were using Windows 95 called me everything from dog shit to stupid and worse for not using a Windows 95 based computer. I also found it interesting how none of the decent Windows fans told these foul mouthed ones off for it.
Hahah.. I am afraid I am going to laugh at all of you including myself. This whole “I converted and life is so much funnier now” is kinda pathetic.
What’s worse is that most of what the converts say describe my exact experience. After years of blind-mac-lovers bashing, admitting that you love macs is even harder than admitting you are gay (which of course is not related, huh, I guess).
I never bashed Mac, so I don’t have to worry 🙂
Use Cyberduck for FTP on OS X. It’s free, it’s OS X native, it’s beautiful, and it’s extremely powerful.
Why do people refer to OS X applications as Mail.app, Safari.app, etc? Do you call Word “Winword.exe”? Do you use “Iexplore.exe” to browse the web? “Msimn.exe” to send and receive viruses?
Usually, you just see it for apps like Mail.app that are so generic it would be kind of confusing if you didn’t add the suffix. Until you, nobody ever said Safari.app.
I personally cant wait till I have enough money to spend on a new apple *book
Despite some posts here…
This is true and beautiful!
GO OS X!
Macs are cool and all, but I will take my 64-bit Windows Vista version of windows and just stick to that. It will be a great development machine and cheaper as well.
>>Macs are cool and all, but I will take my 64-bit Windows Vista version of windows and just stick to that.
Have fun waiting for more than a year to get your hands on it then. But hey, what’s another year when you’ve been waiting since 2001?
I always have to defend my linux desktop against my brother’s OS X desktop. While I have the impression that his desktop is mainly intended for non-hardcore computer users, making me miss some features or context menus, I love some apps and the GUI approach.
One application which recently made me turn green in envy is Coverflow, a graphical iTunes frontend which lets you flip through your records the way you would search through your record stack. Cover by cover.
While it is not very practical when you want to organize your music, it beats searching through lists in juk or amarok by far.
Too bad no-one has ported that software to linux yet.
Here’s the link, btw:
http://www.steelskies.com/coverflow/CoverFlow.html
This new Macintosh renaissance is a fantastic era to be an OSX user
This has been a very interesting thread. The folks who might get depressed reading it aren’t the Windows companies but the Linux distros. There seem to be a lot of users out there who’ve started to lose hope/patience that desktop Linux will come good and grow out of its seemingly endless difficulties, wars and incompatibilities.
It almost looks as if whatever “window of opportunity” desktop Linux may have had is starting to close, and once the Mac establishes itself on Intel then the Linux userbase may end up confined to hardcore fans only. The more casual or newer users who might have tried, say Ubuntu or SUSE, will steer well clear and get a Mac instead. I guess the only thing which might foobar that is some kind of insane pricing policy on Intel Macs, but perhaps that’s unlikely.
Excuse me, but Apple products outside USA are seen as “geek and rich toys”. Apple’s market share outside USA (except maybe Japan) is ridiculous. Apple will never dominate world market because they have a closed mentality, even more than Microsoft.
Most of PCs outside USA are made by chinese parts assembled by little computer shops. PC architecture are open, cheap and give them flexibility to choose different hardware suppliers.
For PCs, the only real alternative to windows for desktops and little servers is Linux. Linux is also open and give flexibility to local integrators.
Why someone rational would change an open PC with an open operating system like linux (or even a pirated copy of windows) for a closed and not-flexible hardware with a closed and proprietary operating system like OS X ? Eye-candy is not a rational argument.
OS X is only a unix core with eye candy interface, nothing more. There are no rational advantage for people to change.
Excuse me, but Apple products outside USA are seen as “geek and rich toys”. Apple’s market share outside USA (except maybe Japan) is ridiculous. Apple will never dominate world market because they have a closed mentality, even more than Microsoft.
Yes, that is a good point. Where I live much of the pitch is “Made in California” Cool with a price to match. However, the arrival of Intel Macs may change that, or at least it gives Apple an opportunity to lower the costs of entry quite a lot.
OS X is only a unix core with eye candy interface, nothing more. There are no rational advantage for people to change.
I guess most folks, me included, aren’t entirely rational in every purchasing decision! However there is a very rational reason for going Apple these days: It Just Works. Linux is too much and too wonky for all but a few while Windows has become a malware-infested patchwork that can be pretty wonky itself. As so many people have said, if your mother or grandmother asks about getting a PC, suggesting they get an Apple laptop has become no-brainer by a huge margin. For Apple, that is a very powerful position to be in.
“I am old enough to remember the hell the Mac folks went through for the PowerPC switch.”
Are you kidding me?
The 68k to PPC transition was practically seamless. The transition was so seamless in fact that its often regarded as one of the most impressive feats Apple has done throughout its lifetime.
I went through that transition. To my embarrassment I have to say that until you mentioned it I didn’t know it had been an issue at the time. I just bought a PowerPC Mac instead of my LCIII and that was that. I never knew that this transition was ever considered to be a problem. It worked great for me.
I don’t know where the million users in the article come from, but I see more and more new users in my user group. There must be some reason why they transition.
I keep hearing the cheap computer stories. I’m still not convince. A high-end Mac used to set you back approx. $5,600. A crazy amount of money [the big Mac now, with -everything- on it, will hit you for a cool $23,000. But then you have everything and the kitchen sink
.]
The high-end Mac will set you back some 3 grand or so today. I just don’t believe that $1,300 for a Mac is a lot of money.
My wife went shopping for shoes, a bag and some of that other stuff they have to have to go to parties. She mentioned the price, it made my eyes water. It made my Mac look cheap.
If money really is that much of a problem, you’ll want to be as cost-conscious as you can be.
I’ve said this many times in the past. It’s like beating a dead horse.
You don’t want to spend much money on anything.
You don’t want a Mac.
Live like you want to live.
Only a married man or father would grasp this. When I was in college and single, dropping $1000 on ‘clothes’ every couple of months was something that rich people did. These days, it’s just part of life. School is starting, time to go ‘shopping’.
This innocent phrase translates roughly to ‘husband, the kids and I need to go buy new wardrobes, and your task is to carry our purchases, buy clothes, lunch, pretzels and smile while doing it’. Once you’ve done this a couple of times, you tend to stop thinking about the difference of $100 (that’s a decent dinner and a movie for a family of four) when you are purchasing something that has a life expectancy longer than 6 months (the life expectancy of a single outfit, typically more than $100 for the wife).
The problem with the ‘Mac’s are too expensive’ argument is that the consumer that’s quibbling about $100 really isn’t the consumer Apple wants, because that’s not a buyer likely to invest in the quality software that Apple or partners vend.
Oh well… Maybe when they grow up, get real jobs, wives and children…
mlopes wrote:
“I don’t think Apple is still that expensive as some say. Well, their top line products like dual/quad PowerMacs are overpriced but the mid-line is quite accessible.”
I went to the Apple site and configured a decent quad core Power Mac G5 (4 gig ram, 500 gig drive, 256 MB video, OSX server 10 cals) it came to $5,148.00. I configured (as close as I could) a similar Dell system and it came to $6,491.00. Macs are NOT overpriced. They aren’t that expensive anymore.
I made a good choice changing. You all should change as well. Windows is ver unstable compared to OS X, had no problems at all with my iMac. Also Macs look better
Make that 1 million and one
I use Mail as my daily grinder. Two IMAP accounts. No problems. What’s the beef?
i Dont know why everytime anybody talks about another OS (linux/Unix/Mac) always mention windows? i want linux, unix,mac but with Windows by side… what the hell is that?
I have Windows and i dont need Linux/Unix/Mac dual-booting, its stupid…
>Have fun waiting for more than a year to get your
>hands on it then. But hey, what’s another year when
>you’ve been waiting since 2001?
Since 2001? Hardly. Waiting a few months is all.
See in the windows world, there are so many things going on with applications and the community is so active, you don’t have to pay $100 every six months to get an OS upgrade that changed a color on the finder.
All the older mac apps are done for, you will have to run an emulator to run the older mac apps just like everyone else. It’s like starting completely from scratch as far as software on the mac goes. ONly OS X and higher and even some of those apps won’t work.
Macs are cool, but I want more than just fluff. If I wanted fluff I would date Brittany Spears. 😛
I don’t need “U2” to do my computing work. I just need my apps to work for me and I have no problem with that as they just work.
you don’t have to pay $100 every six months to get an OS upgrade that changed a color on the finder.
LOL. I’ve made this argument before, and I was wrong, as you are now. OS X point releases do more than “change the color on the Finder”. In four point releases (10.1, 10.2, 10.3, 10.4), Apple has made tremendous progress in their GUI. They started with something at the level of XP (perhaps a bit ahead), and are now at the level of something like Vista. By the time 10.5 comes out, they will be ahead of Vista in most of the categories that count, if only because Vista-like technologies such as Spotlight will already have had over a year of usage, maturity, and widespread adoption.
It’s like starting completely from scratch as far as software on the mac goes.
Every point release on OS X seems like starting from scratch. It is only with 10.4 that Apple has set down some ABI stakes. OS X developers are much more agile than Windows developers. It’ll take years for Microsoft to get a full slate of Vista-optimized apps. In comparison, nearly all the popular OS X already have Tiger-optimized releases, and that is only 6-months old. Heck, a lot of apps already have x86 releases!