“There are many toolkits to choose from for building Linux desktop applications. Some say this is Linux’s downfall; others say it is its greatest feature. I’ll stand somewhere in the middle and say choice is good if you choose what meets your needs. Most graphical user interfaces (GUIs) on Linux are based on X, a client/server architecture that allows for networked computers to share GUI applications.” LinuxJournal has the tutorial.
Kode KDE Kindly, Kan You?
About The Author
Eugenia Loli
Ex-programmer, ex-editor in chief at OSNews.com, now a visual artist/filmmaker.
Follow me on Twitter @EugeniaLoli
If standards aren’t developed to allow all of these different GUI kits to talk to one another on the same level, Linux hasn’t a hope of mass acceptance on the desktop.
I mean… Look at the incompatabilies that still exist between Gnome and KDE. It’s gotten a lot better, but still… Perhaps if we had standards, a board could review every GUI, and so-to-speak, stamp it’s approval on those that met the standards, vs. others.
So for example, with KDE4, you might see “Linux Standards Certified” (or whatever the certification’s called), whereas perhaps WindowMaker wouldn’t be able to qualify for this certification due to some proprietary code (again, for the sake of example).
This is absolutely needed in order for the average non-computer literate population to begin using it. Right now things are simply to confusing for the average user.
My solution is to use XFCE for my GUI, and then it handles the clipboard functions and such for all apps ran under it (both Gnome and KDE). Not sure how it’s done, but it works!
8)=
Realistically… On a related note, I’m surprised no one’s begun reverse engineering the OSX GUI yet -OSX over Linux would be a killer combination, guarenteed to win over those who long for OSX’s GUI, but aren’t willing to pony up for overpriced hardware (myself included).
My two cents…
>Perhaps if we had standards, a board could review every GUI,
>and so-to-speak, stamp it’s approval on those that met the
>standards, vs. others.
that may be so, but what if someone just doesn’t care if their creation isn’t certified? the standards may be there, but there also must be a way to make everyone follow them
big companies like redhat or mandrake will follow it, but 2-3 people that do it just for fun may not
I don’t have any problems running gtk apps under kde 3. I just started using kde with rh 7.3 at work.
I was using WindowMaker, which I think is great, but, I’m a java dev, and java under WindowMaker does not work well. It’s a focus issue. I did have problems copying text between apps under WindowMaker as well.
I have not seen any of these problems so fat in kde 3. Also, I heard a lot of people complaining about the speed. This is the first I’ve used kde on this machine, and it’s no slower than windows was, when I had it installed 6 months ago.
So, if everything is working on the clipboard for me, that must mean the linux can now take over the world, right
Seriously, there is not one single reason linux is not getting mass acceptance, there’s a sh*t load or reasons.
I run KDE apps from CVS (which I rebuild every few days) under a Gnome desktop. I’ve typically got gnome-panel, nautilus, Konqueror, Galeon, OpenOffice, a billion terminals and JBuilder running and I can cut/copy/paste text between them all without any problems.
Drag and drop also works – I can drag a file/image/link from Konq into a Nautilus window and the appropriate action will take place, for example.
The key here is there there are standards – XDND, XClipboard for example – which, if adhered to enable diverse toolkits to interoperate. It’s taken a while (QT2 had terribly non-standard clipboard behaviour, for example) but the latest generation of DE’s and Apps work together pretty well.
Now all we need it a rich-media clipboard…
i can’t wait to have 35 different gui toolkits (that all make calls down to xlib) on my system. Especially if they all do roughly the same thing.
I’m really sick of toolkit wars. IMO it’s much more important that apps built with the same toolkit should follow standards to have a consistent interface if you are using GNOME, KDE, .. (they are beyond the critical mass anyways)
I think every effort to force open source developers to adapt standards, rules, restrictions … will fail if it doesn’t come from the community itself.
> Realistically… On a related note, I’m surprised no
> one’s begun reverse engineering the OSX GUI yet -OSX
> over Linux would be a killer combination,
– What is so great about Aqua? (I own a mac)
– What makes it greater than gtk/qt?
Please note that dropshadows or whatever it’s called and similar gimmics don’t count for me.
– Why/Who will write all the excellent apps again? (Mozilla, Gnumeric, Kdevelop just to name a few)
> guarenteed to win over those who long for OSX’s GUI,
> but aren’t willing to pony up for overpriced hardware
> (myself included).
How come that you know so much about how great Aqua is if you don’t own overpriced hardware?
no offense meant – just interested
Robert
That point about Qt2 is worth repeating. If you are using KDE 2.x (or god forbid 1.x) and you curse the cut/ copy/ paste options because they don’t seem to work properly you should put KDE 3 top of your list of “must have” upgrades.
I don’t know what “rich media” is but the X clipboard does support content negotiation, so you can (if you write applications that support it) do this:
[User chooses Edit/ Copy in the GIMP]
Gimp: Hi, I have put something in the clipboard
[In KSpread the uses presses Paste]
KSpread: Gimp, what formats do you support for the current selection in the clipboard?
Gimp: You can have an LZ77 compressed RGBA, an XPM or the address of a SysV shared memory segment on the server
KSpread: Give me the selection in XPM
Gimp: Here you go; [XPM data]
If you think your favourite application should do more with the X clipboard than it does, go out there and make it happen. Write code, or if you can’t write code file a Feature Request or suggest it on a mailing list.
What is so great about Aqua? (I own a mac)
Well… I can only speak for myself, but I’m a big OS “nut”, so I like to play with a little bit of everything to see how it fits into my system(s) and style.
As an example… On the specific box I’m currently typing on, I’ve a multiboot option, and the following OS’s all reside on it:
Win98, DOS w/the SEAL GUI, WinXP, Mandrake 8.2, Sorcerer(which, by the way… Anyone have a clue how I can get Sorcerer as a boot option on Mandrake’s LILO? Since the core file’s reside in different areas, I seem to be stumped as to how to make it work), BeOS (Danos Edition), and QNX. Until recently I also had both Win2k, and the BeOS online dev. edition installed as well.
So realistically, I want OSX to have fun with. But also, it has the potential to become my primary OS:
Java smokes under it, it’s got great multimedia support (I won’t even go into the toys attached to this box -Not bragging, but it’s like bordering on ridiculous), for development (A lot of web stuff.. Javascript, PHP, DHTML, some VB, etc.) the “pieces” (program interaction, clipboard integration, common look/feel, etc.) are a lot more more polished and logical, and actually I like the idea of the Aqua GUI for Unix. (Having all the complexity of a Unix based system tied together tightly with a well-integrated GUI. Ah…)
Also, it’s nice to know that one company controls the standards and look/feel, as opposed to the myriad of methods, GUI’s, and interopability nightmares that come with using Linux (again… If you’re into hacking away and exploring an OS’s features, as I am).
Also, OSX has a lot of the “intergrated” features which made BeOS so great. As a way cool example of this, check out this link from todays Slashdot: http://slashdot.org/articles/02/05/16/1155232.shtml?tid=133
What makes it greater than gtk/qt?
Please note that dropshadows or whatever it’s called and similar gimmics don’t count for me.
Never said it was better… Just different, and I for one believe that you have to try a little of everything to see what best fits your work style and mindset.
But there’s also something to be said for one company setting the look/feel of the OS also. Don’t think that this is bad… KDE defines it’s own GUI’s look and standards, as do Gnome and yes, even the evil Microsoft. But Linux is special in that you have a much wider choice of front ends than the other OS’s offer (There are other GUI’s available for Windows even!). Additionally, if you want to combine the various GUI’s better features (the best of the best!), there’s compatibility issues, hence this column.
OSX is just a nice looking, fairly tightly integrated OS, which functions as a unit, as opposed to feeling like a Unix or DOS backend with a colorful skin over it’s commands (Win95/98, Linux, etc.). To me again… I speak for no others.
By the way… I like shadows and eye candy a lot. I just don’t like them to slow my system down noticably. A hard thing to achieve, but OSX does it admirably. Conversley, KDE and Gnome do not (although KDE3’s a lot better than previously, and much of this is arguably attributed to the antiquated X-Windows debate)
Why/Who will write all the excellent apps again? (Mozilla, Gnumeric, Kdevelop just to name a few)
Why would you have to? Design this fictional Linux version of OSX the right way, and you just recompile the apps with references to the neccesary GUI code/pieces.
While I’m certainly not an OSX expert (come on… Why won’t some rich bored Windows geek give me the OSX G4 his parents bought him last Xmas that he hates so much??), don’t think that OSX is a Mac language unto itself. It’s at it’s most basic roots a rather tightly integrated front end GUI for a Unix/BSD backend. You can compile Linux apps to run under OSX, so in theory a nice OSX clone should run Linux apps equally well (again, after the neccesary references are changedand the app’s recompiled).
How come that you know so much about how great Aqua is if you don’t own overpriced hardware?
I’m a geek.. What are you doing on this site if you’re not? 8)=
<<shrug>>
Realistically, I read and study up on the latest technology, and when I’m not developing or surfing, I’m usually dinking with OS’s or playing guitar and smoking dope.
8)=
***
Hey Eugenia.. Why can’t we have a preview function for messages here? Not a big deal, but on these longer messages , it’d be nice to be able to preview it “long form”, so-to-speak.
***
Cya’ll
I can see your point, but like every Windows user who has learned how to use Linux on their own. There was that huge learning curve mountain to climb at first, and the GUI (other than configuring X) just wasn’t a part of that huge mountain.
I don’t recall GUI interaction to have ever been an issue. Learning all the stuff I could/had to do at the command line, learning to configure X, learning where all the scripts were kept and how to edit them, learning to configure my modem and network connections, firewall configuration, vim, recompiling the kernel, installing from source files, etc. were what was difficult to learn. Not the many different GUIs. In fact, being able to switch GUIs was the one thing that made me stick it out. I didn’t care about interoperability between GUIs, I enjoyed seeing what each one was capable of regardless of the others. I finally settled on WindowMaker.
I don’t have any problems running gtk apps under kde 3. I just started using kde with rh 7.3 at work.
I use WindowMaker, and I run both GTK and KDE apps. They work fine.
I was using WindowMaker, which I think is great, but, I’m a java dev, and java under WindowMaker does not work well. It’s a focus issue. I did have problems copying text between apps under WindowMaker as well.
I am a Java developer as well. I always had problems under KDE because it insists on making some of Java’s graphics about the same size as a small moon (which is irritating since my monitor isn’t quite that large).
I’ve always had pretty good luck with Java on WindowMaker.
As for cutting and pasting between apps. Most of the time you just highlight what you want to copy in one app and then middle-click where you want it pasted in the other app. This is way easier than having to do CTRL+X,C,P on the keyboard.
Another alternative (if you like doing CTRL+X,C,P) is a WindowMaker dockapp (I forgot the name of it) that works just like the Windows clipboard with the benefit that it will also retain a history and allow you to define its cache size and select what you want to paste from a list (otherwise it just takes the last thing copied when you do a CTRL+V).
<i.I have not seen any of these problems so fat in kde 3.[/i]
I haven’t tried KDE3 so I don’t know if they fixes the moon sized graphic component problem with Java yet or not.
So, if everything is working on the clipboard for me, that must mean the linux can now take over the world, right
Exactly!
i can’t wait to have 35 different gui toolkits (that all make calls down to xlib) on my system. Especially if they all do roughly the same thing.
Me too!!! The more the merrier. That’s my opinion.
i can’t wait to have 35 different gui toolkits (that all make calls down to xlib) on my system. Especially if they all do roughly the same thing.
Me not!! The more the worse. That’s my opinion.