Great article at Polygon, looking into the position of women in esports and the abuse they’re receiving.
Every coaching position she’s held has come with abuse. There’s the European rival who thinks it’s funny to goad her with extravagant compliments about her appearance. There’s the South American player who promises to kiss her when they meet at a live event. There’s the Israeli player who said he didn’t want her advice because she’s a woman. And there’s the countless spectators who spew insults at her through social media and streaming feeds.
But there are also those who recognize her abilities, including her players, other top coaches, senior people at Smite publisher Hi-Rez Studios and commentators who recognize the stamp of her tactics and her influence on improving teams.
Aside from the Baghdad Bobs in gaming, we all know the gaming world – and by extension, esports – isn’t exactly the most welcoming environment for women. Luckily, it’s starting to dawn on the companies in esports, such as Hi-Rez discussed in the linked article, that things need to change, and that steps need to be made to significantly curb the misogyny and abuse.
The League of Legends world championships, the most popular esports event in the world, just concluded this weekend. One weekend earlier, the semifinals were held in Brussels. One quite prominent figure in the League of Legends esports community, presenter and interviewer Eefje “Sjokz” Depoortere, is from Belgium, and parent company Riot took the opportunity to play a fantastic spotlight of her at the start of the event, in front of 17000 people and the millions of viewers around the world. The video details the work that she does, and the prominent way in which the spotlight was played – just before the semifinals started – really drove the point home just how important she’s become.
In an article posted today, Depoortere recalled the moment the video was played.
Sjokz had her own fair share of cherished moments throughout the weekend, particularly when a video feature about her life in Belgium and her work at Riot aired in the 17,000-seat arena. “It was very emotional!” she says. “I hadn’t thought through that I would be on stage listening to myself! I felt kind of embarrassed, because I thought, ‘Oh, these people have to sit through it,’ but all the people were quiet. They were actually listening and watching and it was an extremely heartwarming moment for me.”
The feature touched on some less savoury aspects of being a successful, high-profile woman in a male-dominated industry, particularly sexism and a lack of respect for Sjokz’s work, but since it aired she has received a huge influx of support. Even from people who have been less than pleasant in the past. “Some of them wrote to me and they said, ‘Hey, I’m actually very sorry. I didn’t realise what I was doing. I really respect your work.'”
We’re a long way off from women being treated matter-of-factly universally throughout esports in particular and gaming in general, but it’s at least encouraging to see that steps are being taken. Maybe, just maybe, we’ll eventually see women players feel secure and safe enough to compete at the highest levels.
Okay, I could see how that would get annoying, but abuse… really? I wonder how some of these women would feel if they were an ugly, socially awkward male, where the only intimacy they could manage was with their right hand, and the only advice they ever got was ‘just be yourself’. If they lived that way for about a decade, would they then come back and tell us how terrible it is to be an attractive female and to have all of these awful men telling them how beautiful they are?
Edited 2015-11-03 21:41 UTC
Imagine you work really hard for a company and for your boss. You make extra hours, work your ass off, and deliver top-notch work, and you make a lot of sacrifices to do so.
And every time you go to your boss, all he/she says, is “wow you look hot today!” Every single day, week, month. Not a single comment about your work, not a single appreciation for the hours and effort you put into your work. All you get is compliments on your appearance. Not a single comment on how your work is valued by the company.
Meanwhile, your colleague, who does the same amount of work you do and delivers the same quality, never gets a single comment on her appearance. She only gets endless comments about her work, how her work is valued, how important her work is, and how good of a job she’s doing.
Do you have the empathetic skills to understand how degrading, demeaning, and thus abusive that is?
You’re asking him this?
Well sure, if your strawman was accurate and ugly people always got heaps of praise and the beautiful ones were told nothing but how beautiful they are. Maybe my company is an outlier, but this definitely is not the case where I work; the attractive women are constantly receiving accolades, and I’d say they’re well deserved too, because these women kick ass at their jobs.
I will concede that it’s probably a pain in the ass at times to be extremely hot and having people whistle and call to you as you walk by, but my point is that I’d happily trade places with any of them for awhile and see how horrible it is to have members of the opposite sex always going out of their way to be nice and do favors for me, and to never have to sleep alone if I don’t want to. (Of course, any idiot would tell you ‘they’re just trying to get in your pants’, but I wonder if it’s better than the alternative …)
Edited 2015-11-03 22:55 UTC
It is not abusive. Annoying yes, but no more abusive than the average radical feminist.
Really sorry but this view might seem “harmless” but it’s corrosive.
I guess there’s a progression. First we fight the obviously hostile views. Then we fight the less obvious apparently “harmful” views with dangerous subtexts and prior assumptions.
I appreciate you did comment very politely with no overt malice.
For that particular example perhaps abuse isn’t the right word, but it’s definitely not innocent compliments. It’s intended to make her self conscious and uncomfortable. The other stuff mentioned in the article ranges from creepiness to abuse.
I think the issue is that everyone should be able to participate without being targeted because of their gender, race, sexuality, appearance, or whatever.
Your argument is a non sequitur. Why does a female not wanting to receive creepy messages and harassment have to do with being an unattractive male? Should everyone just accept everything because there’s someone else that might have it worse?
Of course not. But they bitch about how it’s so awful to get all this attention from the opposite sex, so that’s why I brought up whether or not they would trade places with somebody who doesn’t get ANY. You notice Thom and other SJWs never post in support of the latter group. If you’re a hot woman, perhaps people pay attention to you for the wrong reasons, but at LEAST they pay attention to you.
That’s because nobody has the right to attention from the opposite sex. The fact that you seem to think that you somehow deserve attention from the opposite sex is, considering your somewhat spiteful tone towards women in your comments, quite, quite telling, and really tells us all we need to know.
Never said they did. The point was that listening to beautiful women bitch about how much unwanted attention they’re getting from the opposite sex when you’re not getting any, is like listening to a rich person complain endlessly that they had to fly coach instead of first class, when you’re living in poverty and can’t even afford a plane ticket.
Yeah, I’m sure it sucks for them, but it sure as hell could be worse.
You have it completely backwards. A person isn’t entitled to fly first class, so it’s a ridiculous thing to complain about. A person should be entitled to participate in gaming without being harassed (and if someone feels harassed or bullied, who are you to say he or she isn’t?), so it’s justified to speak out about behaviour that’s unacceptable.
A person isn’t entitled to attention from the opposite sex, so why should someone being harassed be told: “how would you like it if you got no attention?”
IMO, I think we need to draw a clear distinction between what is harassment and what is not, and not just take her word for it. For example, if a guy she doesn’t know walks by and grabs her ass or gropes her, I think we can agree that is blatant harassment. If I saw a guy do that, *I* would call him out for such an offense.
But by some of these women’s descriptions, simply having guys commenting on her looks and telling her she’s hot would constitute harassment. Are you seriously implying that men should not have a right to do that? Do we need to have her sign a goddamn consent form before we make any advances toward her? The climate has gotten so toxic these days that if there was a woman at work whom I might want to take out, I’d probably never ask her, for fear of her turning it into an HR issue, and losing my job.
Edited 2015-11-04 21:49 UTC
If you really don’t know how to behave around other people you should read the harassment guidelines of your relevant authority. There is no “toxic climate”, just the delusions of obsessed men on the Internet. Honestly your generalisations about the opposite sex are as bad as the extremist feminists you hate so much.
[1] https://www.humanrights.gov.au/our-work/sex-discrimination/guides/se…
[2] https://www.fairwork.gov.au/employee-entitlements/bullying-and-haras…
The fact that you think he said or even implied that is quite telling to me and really shows the problems those people face.
He’s not spiteful towards women, he’s upset about the perceived entitlement of those who loudly complain about something (attention) of which the opposite feels a lot worse to many lonely people that will never get it, and yet the way those lonely people are treated/shunned/ridiculed by society never gets any attention while that same society is ready to move the world just to please the first group (and give them even more attention). That’s really all he’s saying from what I’m reading. Nowhere does he deny the first group’s bad experience with attention.
If someone’s aiming for social justice, perhaps that’d be a nice angle to take a look at.
Edited 2015-11-04 18:42 UTC
Thom – I don’t know this guy from Adam but I don’t think what you are implying is what he is saying.
Maybe you’ve been lucky your whole life and your family gave you the right amount of confidence and self esteem that you were able to talk to girls and get dates when you became interested in girls (or boys – I have no idea if you are gay or not and it is not my business but I’m equally fine with either – just saying).
There are lots of us though who had a family that didn’t give them the love and encouragement they needed to feel good about themself. Maybe this guy isn’t good looking or he could be ugly. Sorry guy if that is true.
He’s NOT saying, at least I’m not taking him as saying that good looking people should just suck it up and live with it because they are lucky to be good looking or better. He is also NOT saying everything deserves to get attention. That everyone has a RIGHT to get attention.
I’m married and have been for more than a few years. My wife loves me and thinks that I am cute. I feel the same about her. I’m sure that we aren’t cute to everyone. Beauty and cuteness is in the eye of the beholder.
When I was growing up my family and kids teased me relentlessly. Why? I’m sure they could give you a number of reasons but this shell shocked me and caused me to be introverted for close to twenty years. This caused me to think about suicide a lot and to this day I’m still pretty surprised that I didn’t kill myself back then.
Then my now wife was patient with me and gave me enough attention and didn’t back down that I learned to trust her and she has been my wife for awhile now.
I would have loved to have some good attention from girls while I was growing up. No it isn’t anyone’s “right” to get attention. But boy would it have been nice.
Later, -after- I got married I went to a high school reunion because one of my friends practically dragged me to it. While I was there I was stunned to have seven girls come up to me and ask me why I never asked them out. I told them I had no idea that they would have wanted me to.
They told me they “tried to give me signals” but my self esteem was so low that there was no way I was ever going to see this. I didn’t tell them that though. When they found out that I was married they told me that my wife was very lucky. It was amazing to hear this because I had no idea that any girl thought this way about me. I’m very, very happy with my wife and did not for a moment think about “trading up” because I’ve got a wonderful wife.
I feel that I’m very lucky that my was patient with me while she pursued me.
This is for EVERYONE. ANY unwanted attention where you know that the person getting that attention does not want it and that it hurts them IS ABUSE! It doesn’t matter if they are attractive or not. Or smart or not. Or a nerd or not. Abuse is abuse and even if you think they can take it or you are jealous of their looks or whatever reason it is that is causing you to hurt them, please stop now.
You may be hurting a lot inside. This might be why you are acting out this way. Find someone to talk to. It might take time but try to talk to a counselor at school or if you are an adult through your medical insurance. You aren’t alone.
Really nice post. I share that experience somewhat. Low confidence, not noticing any signals and scared I would be a creep if I send any sort of signals that I liked someone. Not necessarily unhappy, I wasn’t as deep down as you, but not happy either. Just introvert and lonely in a way. I didn’t feel entitled to anyone’s attention, but it would have made me a lot happier.
Then I met my girlfriend, through the internet even, and my confidence gained an enormous boost. I was able to talk more freely and later learned that someone I had a crush on before actually had the same feelings about me. In hindsight I could have known. Anyway, we’re normal friends now and I’m very happy with my girlfriend, life is a lot better now
Edited 2015-11-04 19:06 UTC
Well, I can certainly relate to that (and judging by the up votes, it’s not just me). Much as I disliked this though, it wasn’t anyone else’s fault, so doesn’t actually provide any justification for trying to make others feel bad about themselves too. By much the same logic, it’s fair for unintelligent people to pick on intelligent people to compensate for poor job prospects.
>we all know the gaming world – and by extension, esports – isn’t exactly the most welcoming environment for women
>The feature touched on some less savoury aspects of being a successful, high-profile woman in a male-dominated industry, particularly sexism and a lack of respect for Sjokz’s work, but since it aired she has received a huge influx of support.
Notice there’s never any supporting argument to prove anything. Just mindless drivel to guilt/shock people and sell ads.
>Even from people who have been less than pleasant in the past. “Some of them wrote to me and they said, ‘Hey, I’m actually very sorry. I didn’t realise what I was doing. I really respect your work.'”
See? It all ends up fine.
She (Sjokz) got the usual treatment. Mostly good audience and a few jackasses. She also went thru the same emotions that most players experience: nervousness from anxiety and sweaty palms.
Bad treatment women in gaming is a myth. Just like the rape culture and the hilarious patriarchy. Companies will actually go further to recruit more females.
Ooo, lemme guess: GamerGate afficiendo?
Alright, men, all the strong independent women need our help!
The message here is that women can’t take care of themselves.
If someone’s being harassed or bullied, what can they do to “help themselves”? Is it weakness to tell other people about it?
Stand up and walk away from the keyboard?
That depends on how you define “take care”. It is generally acknowledged that the position of underpriviliged groups improves once members of the dominant group start speaking out. What you are saying is that men should turn a blind eye, and let women handle it themselves. Or generalising, that *anyone* being attacked or disadvantaged should take care of it themselves.
Esports has to be one of the most ridiculous and deceptive names ever devised. It is nothing more than unattractive and socially inept boys playing stupid video games.
You’re not very good at trolling, might wanna practice some more first.
I’m not trolling. I’m stating a fact. Esports, despite the euphemistic description, has nothing whatsoever to do with sport. I suppose the far more accurate “socially inept video gamers” doesn’t have quite as much marketing clout.
Edited 2015-11-04 08:11 UTC
The gaming companies sure don’t think so. Have you seen the price money ? Have you seen the hours people put in to it to get better ?
It doesn’t really matter if you think it’s a sport.
The viewer count is what counts (audience). Because that gets you the sponsors.
Anyway, maybe you’ll like numbers instead:
http://espn.go.com/espn/story/_/id/13059210/esports-massive-industr…
South Korea is really the only place where esports are highly popular.
The highest paid esports competitor (Lee Dae Jong) earned prize money of USD519,000 in 2014. That is the sort of income a second/third tier professional athlete would expect.
Floyd Mayweather earned USD 285 MILLION in prize money in 2015
Here are the Top 15 esports players in the world. Every single one of the is a stereotypical scrawny, pimply nerd.
http://www.businessinsider.com.au/15-of-the-highest-paid-profession…
Edited 2015-11-04 09:20 UTC
Maybe you shouldn’t compare it to the top tier sports (yet, because it’s growing fast).
You know there are thousands of sports.
Look at the Olympics.
Most sports there you’d probably call sports, right ?
Most people performing those sports maybe get a minimal wage.
For comparison, I believe it was a million dollars for the winning Dota 2 team.
Edited 2015-11-04 09:20 UTC
Esports is a little more than an extremely cynical marketing tactic by gaming companies.They pay a few pimply nerds a modest income and treat them like slaves to sell more games. Millions of kids then buy these games in the infinitesimally small hope that they can make a living as a pro gamer.
If you look at the income breakdown only 50-100 so esports players are well paid and no more than 10 are highly paid (their earnings are still pitiful compared with mainstream professional sports). Compare this with major teams sports like soccer where many thousands of players are highly paid.
http://www.esportsearnings.com/players/highest_overall
Edited 2015-11-04 09:59 UTC
How about comparing it with something more realistic than soccer.
How about something like Chess ?
Esports are marketed as a mainstream sport with mass audiences.
There are no chess tournaments held in stadiums.
What’s wrong with being a “scrawny nerd”? Do you consider them lesser human beings?
I feel pity for them.
Well, everything seems to indicate you are actually jealous.
Why would I possibly be jealous of someone who’s idea of a novel sexual experience is using their left hand?
Oh, so you are saying in your experience nerds can’t get laid? You sound kind of insecure. Are you?
You misspelled self loathing...
Obviously they are not beatiful women so when they are rutinely harassed it is not a big social problem.
Yep you lost another moderate.
Here we go again…
http://wondermark.com/1k62/
Wow. An article starting with a reference to Polygon and proceeding with discussion of treatment of women in gaming.
Thom, you have to know you’re just asking for it here…
Not going to offer any opinions of my own here, because one can’t win either way…
Edited 2015-11-04 11:33 UTC
These problems will never disappear since e-sports and gaming attract a really huge number of idiot antisocial goats whom you can’t just re-educate by talking and explaining. Some are fed by their outdated (and/or non-compatible) cultural and social backgrounds, others are just simply nuts. You can’t argue with either bunch expecting improved results.
Most of them are fucking weirdos. If they had any social skills they wouldn’t be spending 10 hours a day looking at a screen.
I usually say that I want criteria of what is sexism, abuse or just plain bad behaviour and never get a straight answer. How am I suppose to know what is sexist if even the feminists can’t agree?
That said, there are plenty of sexism to go around anyway.
http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=6907#more-6907