Submitted by Nokia may have gone with Windows Phone 7 for its future smartphone operating system, but until then, we now have the Nokia N9 to look at. Yes, a beautiful, top-of-the-line Nokia smartphone which runs MeeGo 1.2 Harmattan – but isn’t this thing kind of a dead end? Also announced: the even prettier Nokia N950 Meego 1.2 developer device – only available to a limited number of developers. Sure to become a collectors’ item.
Dang, that thing looks good!
here some dev UX guidelines: http://www.developer.nokia.com/swipe/ux/
Yes, it’s a dead end. But I’m going to get one anyway. Especially if it’s as open as the N900.
Lack of MicroSD and front facing camera kinda sucks though.
As far as I have read, the N950 is as open as the N900; the N9 nop… anyway, the N950 will not be available for the common mortals (as me), but will be available only through the Nokia Developer Program.
they have a developer program for a dead end product?
Some people labelling it “dead end product” does not make it dead end.
would you prefer “Enthusiast Product” ?
N950 and N9 run essentially the same software (which is the point of course), so I think it has to be said that both are equally “open”.
The truth is, that it’s probably not as open as the N900. It is based on an open source stack (including GUI libraries), but most applications and the home UI stack won’t be open.
On the other hand you can “jailbreak” your phone by flipping a switch, and you could replace all the closed parts with open source alternatives while retaining compatibility.
there’s a front facing camera: http://press.nokia.com/wp-content/uploads/mediaplugin/doc/1-nokia-n…
… about the reasons to chose WP7. He said that:
1)Meego wouldn´t be ready in time. They could have more phones released this year if they decided to do so (even before they WP7 ones are ready).
2)With WP7 they can differenciate themselves and Meego hasn´t enought appeal. They are WP7s from other companies but only Nokia has the Harmattan UI. I won´t say that it´s the best but it looks sexy and is attractive to the common folks.
This isn’t the MeeGo Elop was talking about. The actual MeeGo can barely make a phonecall at this point.
Could you explain more or provide some background? Why is this not the Meego? That makes no sense to me. Was he talking about a future version?
Making phonecalls just fine on the n900 meego 1.2 on ATT and TMobile GSM networks here in the US.
Your comment reeks of FUD, Thom.
Are you referring to meego 1.3 or something?
It’s not FUD. Harmattan is NOT MeeGo. It’s actually Maemo 6, and builds upon the excellent foundation of that product. It’s only been REBADGED as MeeGo.
Can you provide links to more info about Harmattan? Is it still built on a Debian base like maemo? Or is it Moblin core with some of maemo on top of it? Is software packaging going to be .deb as for maemo or .rpm as for moblin?
Still Debian. It shares most APIs with MeeGo though.
That’s not what I found in here:
http://flors.wordpress.com/2011/06/20/nokia-n9-state-of-the-art-of-…
Actually, Thom is right. Quim uses the word MeeGo in the loose sense of the word (that includes Harmattan) here.
As has been already asked… do you have links or anything to prove that?
http://press.nokia.com/wp-content/uploads/mediaplugin/doc/1-nokia-n… says OS: MeeGo 1.2 Harmatten. So it’s MeeGo 1.2.
Here’s a link for you:
http://achipa.blogspot.com/2010/03/danger-of-weak-branding-or-which…
Mappings between MeeGo number in the article and actual devices:
#1 -> ?
#2 -> N9
#3 -> Asus EeePC X101
#4 -> N900
Well, that’s just an opinion.
To me having the same API and library compatibility is having the same OS. The fact that it has *more/different* things is a bonus…
CentOS and Scientific Linux are RedHat distros… aren’t they?
In the end:
1- for you is not meego -> great
2- for me it is meego -> also great
Everyone happy then
Your CentOS/RHEL comparison only apply here if someone can create a .deb based distro which is binary compatible with RHEL. Doesn’t exist.
What is the “loose” sense of the term? Does it meet the Meego 1.2 compliance standard or not?
I do not believe we are talking about the same thing.
This http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/unstable/beta/api_refs/ is what (or will) constitutes the software on the N9 afaik and differs significantly from that found in PR 1.3 of maemo: http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Archite…
In addition that differs dramatically from the meego 1.2 compliant N900 community edition (which makes phone calls just fine for me): http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/CE_Factsheet
As to whatever pie-in-sky “meego” barely making phone calls you are making reference to, can you please provide a link to some actual information or firsthand knowledge of its status? Are you talking about the status of 1.3? Thanks.
If Nokia wants to call what they ship on the N9 “meego” I guess we will see how that works out. Maybe it would have behooved them to name their OS and API code drops for product launch after candy or desserts to clear up confusion.
From http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/Status
> Rings (very softly, even at max volume) and *sometimes* dialer does open, but does not meet the requirements for a primary device, cannot be heard/felt, in pocket.
> Dialers People page doesn’t show contacts (bug #19586)
That qualifies as “barely able to make/receive calls”, and yes, I do have it installed on my N900.
Who cares on the tech side? The UI is Qt based and it works.
I’m not a meego-basher, but when I read the caveats for the N950 (the phone to be sent ASAP to developpers):
http://www.fonearena.com/blog/39678/nokia-n950-available-exclusivel…
…Sorry, it is not ready.
As someone who has been working on Harmattan, Elop’s decision has been incredibly frustrating and disappointing of course.
However, I am getting really tired of this “Elop lied” argument. Whether or not he made the right decision remains to be seen, but there is no clear indication that given the circumstances and information he was faced with, he didn’t made a sensible decision.
Your arguments are as flawed as most others in this regard:
1) Getting the OS ready to be released on one phone is one thing, having the capability and time to support it on a wide range of phones is a very different thing. Nokia is no Apple, which can survive on one phone a year or less. Additionally, while a Nokia Windows Phone is not out yet, at least WP7 has been around for a while and is steadily growing its ecosystem.
2) These were arguments for choosing WP7 over Android. Elop never stated differentiation or appeal as the reason for going with WP7 over MeeGo. This is how statements are getting mixed up to create popular semi-truths.
What’s done is done. The N9 is an amazing phone, and I am confident that it will do well in markets which are not entirely in the grip of the iOS or Android ecosystems (yes, they exist). It’s a phone for those who want one of the neatest phones of the next couple of years or so, not for those who want to invest heavily in apps and get tied down to a specific ecosystem.
When the N9 eventually becomes obsolete, there will be something worthy to replace it. What it will be… We’ll just have to see. Perhaps a Nokia running WP9.
What exactly do you mean by dead-end?
That this was a false product announcment that will never see store shelves? I don’t find that likely but Nokia never ceases to surprise.
That once launched this product will never receive updates OTA or via flasher? I also find that extremely unlikely but then again I could see Elop-esque tactics at work to ensure the death of the platform inside Nokia once and for all (ala “see meego hurts our customers time to circle the wagons on WP7 once and for all”).
That there will be no apps created for the device? This I think might be arguable. I am certainly no longer interested in devoting developer hours to the platform after Nokia marketing execs pretty much straight-up lied to evangelists and developers. I gotta believe others share my feelings.
However, when it comes to the opportunity cost of not doing it if Nokia moves alot of these devices, it seems like the delta of getting a qt app from a symbian/Anna device like the N8 to this device is quite small. So to not do it would require some serious animus.
Still, the work involved in translating a more pure “symbian” app I would doubt anyone is going to sign up for. Time will tell.
I think he means dead end as in, the first and last generally available device running Meego on Arm as a phone. None of that is official, but that seems to be the direction things are headed.
In marketing speak, I think dead-end in that sense means, the culmination of years of engineering excellence! 😉
It does bring up an interesting point though. I wonder how many people that are not Apple customers buy a phone based on the notion that there will be a next.x release of the same phone when either their contract expires or they next want to upgrade (in six months lol!)
I don’t think brand loyalty really plays a significant role as it used to in consumer smartphone decisions. They seem to graivate to whatever is shiny at the moment, but I could be way out of touch. I own about 12 models so I’m not a good reference point
Edited 2011-06-21 22:38 UTC
Its not just about the hardware, its the ecosystem. Sure its nice to know that you’ll be getting updates, and its even nicer to know that you’ll be able to upgrade to a familiar device later on. But its mostly about the apps, and games, you can’t forget the games because smartphone are primarly entertainment devices these days. But if developers doubt your commitment to the platform, why will they develop for it. Very few people will want a smartphone if it doesn’t have the apps they are used to. Are many developers still interested in Meego know that they know Nokia won’t be throwing all its muscle behind it. Its a side project at best now.
Just curious, can you name an app that you use consistently on your current platform that isnt available or as a clone with matching feature set on the 3 other major platforms that would prevent you from purchasing?
I’ve got an android phone, and I’d happily switch to the N9 if the price is right. The apps themselves aren’t or shouldn’t be important, the capabilities are. Meego, from what I’ve seen, is highly capable in itself, with a proper GNU userspace, whereas Android isn’t all that powerful and really depends on the applications to do every little thing.
Besides, it’s built on Qt, so much of KDE should be easily adaptable to the platform. And it’s got ScummVM.
Nothing was yet announced, but meego labbeled as system for “future disruption” will be kept around.
As for N9, if the get their act together and squash remaining bugs before release it might have a good chance to sell to nokia loyalist.
It just need to have better gui and basic functionality than Symbian, and from what I saw on the videos it does just that.
And if it sells well, there’s a chance Nokia internal “own os” lobby will gain traction enough to revive the line.
Nokia Loyalists? I don’t think there are enough of those to prevent the n9 from failing to sell significant quantities.
Two additional Ifs also required, including a complete shift in corporate strategy. It *could* happen, but it looks pretty unlikely.
I think people frequently forget that the US of A is not really Nokia’s bread & butter. The reason that MS wanted in bed with them was so they could push WP7 as a mobile platform to all the other countries that have Nokia phones that are just making the jump to smart phones.
No, I didn’t forget that the USA is not Nokia’s best market, although I am US based. I don’t think there are enough, even in Europe and Asia. The thing would have to sell to people beyond the die hard crowd in order to convince the company to change its policies. Because, if the die hard crowd was enough, they’d never have to leave symbian.
A lot of people just want a mightly sleek, modern phone that does the (smartphone) basics well: typing, web, social , mmedia, camera, navigation (with last 2 being industry top). You may compare the innards to Galaxy II but, for nongeeks the look is actually quite important factor and N9 beats S royally here.
Also count the n900 lovers(1mo is not a small number for a single device) who longed for an upgrade.
Note that a supply of last gen qt symbian apps will be trivially portable to the platform, so with some substantial sales for the device number of devs may actually come to the “why not” conclusion. N9 being a single device in 2011 actually works to its advantage here.
The N8 reviews noted just wanted Nokia industrial design with a better software. Here it is.
Edited 2011-06-22 19:46 UTC
Yes, I agree non Geeks and non loyalists would have to purchase it in significant numbers. No, I do not think that is likely. Now, would I purchase it? Yes, in a heartbeat … if it came with a subsidy from my carrier.
>> if it came with a subsidy from my carrier.
Not going to happen in the US
, not that it’s any better than the status quo for last x years.
Say thanks to AT’n’T, Verizon, Sprint and others.
Anyway, lot’s of people (from my surroundings) did the math and now they are happily buing phones on the free market using prepaid plans instead.
Yeah my math is different, I have a sizeable discount through work. Subsidies make economic sense for me, if I want data ( and I do).
And vice versa. I imagine we won’t see the N9 sold anywhere in the US as Nokia attempts to “reboot” its image/relationship with the carriers as the premier WP7 OEM or something.
Probably also why the X7 was announced by ATT in the US but was never actually sold to my knowledge.
Its a dead end because Nokia execs keep calling it a dead end. All Elop has been saying is WP7 WP7 WP7 since February. He pretty much said that all of our products suck and WP7 is the future of the company. But oh by the way those aren’t ready yet so please buy our symbian and meego phones, they are completely unrelated to WP7 and have incompatable app ecosystems but you should still buy them anyway for some reason.
I have no faith in Nokia’s commitment to non-WP7 platforms, because the top brass of the company has shown nothing but disdain for them. All we’ve had saying otherwise are company blog posts from the QT, Meego and Symbian teams basically saying ‘we aren’t dead yet’ and not much else. But really would they be allowed to say anything else. What will Nokia be saying once they finally ship a WP7 device and don’t have to worry about killing interest in their other product lines anymore. It will take more than a token product release to fill a gaping hole in their release schudule for me to trust them again.
Yeah I hear that.
But a profitable line of business is just that. Just because it will not be the “flagship” WP7 lineup, I would find it difficult to believe that Elop would be allowed by the Nokia board to simply jettison a profitable model and all the expertise and talent that goes along with it.
All that is predicated on the the N9 being a success of course. Who knows, but I’m like you I think in that I’m not sure I care anymore. Part of my attraction to Nokia in the spirit of competitiveness was always as an EU counterbalance to the Cupertino/Silicon Valley (all innovation happens here) mentality. I think that is pretty much gone from the corporate spirit regardless.
Actually, there have been new releases of Qt and Meego since Nokia’s WP7 announcement.
There is also the Calligra Active project, which is due for release in October, which uses QML and hence integrates with Meego. This project will deliver MS Office and OpenDocument (ODF) integration to non-WP7 mobiles (tablets and phones).
http://www.calligra-suite.org/news/calligra-announces-second-snapsh…
There is a video of it running here:
http://aseigo.blogspot.com/2011/04/plasma-active-calligra-active.ht…
“The file format compatibility with Open Document Format and Microsoft’s Office Open XML is some of the best to be found in a mobile form factor.”
So, in truth, they really aren’t dead yet.
The development is covered by QML. QML apps will run on Meego and also on Android.
http://mynokiablog.com/2011/02/28/video-qt-for-android-comes-to-alp…
Demo:
http://www.meegoexperts.com/2010/12/super-mario-demo-pure-qml/
Tutorial:
http://qt.nokia.com/developer/learning/online/training/training-day…
Guide:
http://labs.qt.nokia.com/2010/08/12/a-guide-to-writing-games-with-q…
Enjoy.
Edited 2011-06-22 00:19 UTC
Moreover, the N9 is likely to shift a respectable number. Write an application for it with Qt, and “downscaling” it to Nokia’s other devices is fairly straight-forward.
This will give you a respectable market, that is also fairly untapped. Add to this that Qt’s future in Nokia is really not that bleak, with S40 being thrown into the mix and who knows what else. Practically everything that is not served by WP will be Qt based. It may be unclear if there will be other high-end Nokia smartphones in the medium to distant future, but few people plan so far ahead anyways.
No, I don’t see it’s appstore ever rivalling the “big three”. But I don’t see it being a completely barren wasteland either.
There are pretty well specced Symbian phones coming out as well.
Note that while Nokia won’t be churning out Harmattan devices after N9, the real “platform” for Nokia is Qt, and this device is in Qt family. So developers can create a QML app and run it on:
– 250 million (current projection) Symbian devices, supported until 2016
– N9 (an “aspirational” flagship device)
– Future “next billion” devices – Marco Argenti (my boss, incidentally) announced on Nokia Connections yesterday that Qt will be the development platform for future low end devices. This is a big deal.
OK, this is interesting. So the N9 is basically Maemo + Meego compatibility (to some extend.)
And there won’t be a new Maemo device or no new Meego/Linux device?
And what’s up with the “future disruption” stuff? The only thing that makes sense here is Meego.
Do you know more specifics? Is the N9 still MeeGo Touch Framework based? Or just QML?
Will the S40 Qt be stripped down?
Yeah.
Public plan is not to have new phones based on Harmattan, nor new phones based on “real MeeGo”.
Still secret.
Some apps still written in MTF, some QML. Third parties should only use QML.
The plans around Qt & Next Billion are still secret. Nobody has said it’s S40, for example.
Do they still have X.org in the stack?
Yes.
No. X.org is not on the roadmap for Meego. Wayland is being integrated into 1.3 currently.
Please try to use current information.
Edited 2011-06-22 16:34 UTC
N9 has Harmattan, which has X.org in the stack.
MeeGo 1.3 is besides the point, N9 does not have that.
I could care about $0.01 US about the N9. The Meego platform roadmap is Wayland not X based.
But you’re right I probably misunderstood the prior poster’s question. I thought he was interested in the Meego platform in general not the Nokia N9 specifically. Thanks.
Based on this, the N9 seems like the device that should have come out like 2 years ago.
I am getting extremely uncomfortable with the way people are throwing the term “meego” around.
Bunch of marketing people and now pseudo-engineers on tech blogs.
There are compliance documents and standards. If the N9 distribution does not meet those requirements then there are going to be some problems very quickly.
Does anyone here pretending to talk knowledgeably about the N9 or N950 have one?
Harmattan is “MeeGo enough”, in terms of API’s. Calling it MeeGo is something that benefits both Nokia and Intel. Developers easily learn the difference. So just let it go.
I’ve been in possession of N950 prototype[s] for a long time.
Cool can you archive up a ls -lr for me?
Why don’t you download the SDK and check stuff yourself?
Either install Qt SDK and experimental harmattan target, or grab the scratchbox based one:
http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/Introduction.html
Oh, so to check the compliance of a shipping device I should check the compliance of an SDK.
That makes good sense to someone I’m sure. Never mind, I will get some help from actual people. To IRC!
There is no need to check the compliance, because it should be obvious by now that Harmattan is not MeeGo compliant – starting with such detail as package manager (harmattan deb, real meego rpm).
So, Harmattan is what Maemo 6 should have been but it is labelled as “Meego”
Out of all this what I’m getting is “Nokia will be putting out another phone running Linux, based on Debian” and that’s what the n9 will be. Despite Nokia’s evilness in partnering with Microsoft I will definitely by an n9, based on this. Having Debian in my pocket is the best part about the n900 and I was extremely disappionted when I learned that the “merged” maemo/moblin project would be using an inferior package format and base system.
If Nokia keeps putting out .deb-based phones which are reasonably hackable I will keep buying them.
Oh, so Meego is only to be used by Nokia and Intel. Thanks got it. And for the record are you speaking authoritatively for or on behalf of the Meego TSG which put work into and published the Meego compliance document?
Compliance documents and standards are there for a reason. To prevent the dilution of the name trademarked by the Linux Foundation and so that applications written for Meego run on ANY meego device.
So, I probably won’t let it go, thanks though. Hopefully the N9 does actually meet the 1.2 compliance standards.
Nokia & Intel => Meego
Like
Novell => Open Suse
They are the backing companies which have paid for a significant chunk of the development of the platform. The platform won’t succeed as well as it could if it reflects badly on the primary backers. The backers need to release *something* somewhat successful and call it Meego. If they don’t they may lose support from with their own ranks to support the platform ( Nokia pretty much already has because of the delays). Give ’em a break would ya
So Maemo 7 it is? I can always dream
Is N900 with Maemo 5 also in the “Qt platform”?
Qt 4.7 and Qt Mobility 1.02 were part of the PR 1.3 release for the N900. The latest “official” Nokia release.
Yes, but sort of in the “legacy” category (most maemo developers will probably start focusing on N9). N900 runs QML apps great (better than Symbian^3 phones actually).
You also can’t buy N900 anymore.
…and, though speculating, do you think nokia will start to sell N950 units later on?
N950 will not be sold. You have to earn it ;-).
Qt on S40?
From viviano’s posts, we don’t know if it’s s40 yet, and he won’t tell us because of trade secrets and things like that. It’s for low-end Nokia devices, either current or future, period. For all we know, Nokia could as well make all their lower-end phones run Symbian and throw s40 away altogether. In fact, that would be a very interesting move, if modern low-end hardware is really up to it (Which I doubt. There’s enough “out of memory” warnings on mid-end Symbian phones already, unless they’ve heavily optimized things).
Edited 2011-06-22 07:14 UTC
The N950 is unlikely to be much of a collector’s item, as it’s being distributed on a loan basis: you don’t own it, Nokia lends it to you. So you can’t turn around and sell it on eBay.
A pity that the UI is closed source, and chances are low that Nokia will ever open it for the Meego community.
…no comment.
That list is incomplete, as The Netherlands is supposed to get it too. Weird.
Edited 2011-06-22 09:27 UTC
New Zealand but not Australia…wtf!?
Looks like Elop excluded places where he hopes to make biggest splash WP7 debut, not to have those devices canibalise each other and possibly confuse customers. That’s good for his strategy, but is it good for Nokia in general?
Edited 2011-06-22 11:13 UTC
It seems to a lack a hardware keyboard, which basically negates the main benefit that Maemo had and now Meego has over the ‘competition’: One can use it more like the proper PC that Maemo/Meego wants to be, instead of like a phone that got smart. How will I be able to properly operate X-Term without a hardware keyboard?
Overall it’s a beautiful, minimalistic design. Especially the sharp corners are an artistically clever way to differentiate from the iPhone and it’s wannabe follower smartphones.
Edited 2011-06-22 14:49 UTC