Guest post by InfoWorld’s Savio Rodrigues sees 2010 as a watershed year for Ubuntu, one that could herald meaningful enterprise interest in the OS, thanks to a rising tide of developers – and deployment servers – adopting the OS. “As with many recent trends in the IT industry, developers become ambassadors for products they enjoy using and have quickly become an early indicator for enterprise technology usage in the future. In a seemingly perfect storm, Ubuntu is benefiting from strong developer usage, and the fact that developers are increasingly selecting Amazon’s EC2 cloud platform bodes well for continued Ubuntu success on EC2,” Rodrigues writes, noting that Ubuntu has surpassed Red Hat usage on deployment servers as well. “As that occurs, IT decision makers will need to consider or reconsider Ubuntu for usage within the enterprise. Rest assured that Red Hat won’t sit idly by during these discussions.”
*snore*
Year on year it’s the year of Linux on the desktop and year on year it just doesn’t seem to crack that nut in any meaningful way.
It cracked ‘the nut’ some years ago – people just didn’t realize it when it happened.
Besides that it’s GNU/Linux when we’re talking the usual OS stack. Systems not using the GNU userland is obviously not GNU/Linux.*
When it comes to netbooks and smartphones GNU/Linux and Linux have already taken off very well. Particularly smartphones is an area where MS are way behind. On the desktop Linux’ main area is Europe (at least when considering 1st and 2nd world countries). The situation in USA may be very different.
*This is something RMS and Linus Torvalds agree on fulfully and with zero disagreement. ‘GNU/Linux’ for the system, and ‘Linux’ for the kernel.
Yeah, about the same time Steam was released for Linux. It’s just that we don’t know it yet.
I suspect they picked up the wrong nut to crack then.
StatCounter has a useful global breakdown by region and country.
You can begin here:
http://gs.statcounter.com/#os-eu-monthly-200911-201011
and then take a look at the charts for the UK, Germany, France and so on.
This is not a success story. It is a picture of failure on a global scale.
You might also take a look at the European charts for Mobile OS and Mobile vs Desktop.
Cool. Useless statistics. There is no way to reliably measure OS adoption using web statistics.
Besides that, an adoption of Linux around 30% (in the mobile area) can hardly be considered a failure. Of course this is not in all countries, but nonetheless predominantly in Europe. Of course there are countries with lower adoption rates, but also countries with higher adoption rates. Which is what I wrote.
So thank you for proving me right.
EDIT: You must feel really powerful when you mod down people, right? Nothing like bashing other persons with lies, damned lies and statistics, eh?
Edited 2010-12-18 15:00 UTC
[sarcasm]Yes because statistics are completely pointless[/sarcasm].
When someone shows you some evidence (while you have shown none) that doesn’t fit in with your already entrenched view on the world, you decide you don’t like the results, then do what most zealots do and attack the method of collection.
Edited 2010-12-18 16:42 UTC
Huh?
Entranched world view? No evidence? WTF? Did you read nothing? And evidence of what? Numbers? The stats are already there. Take a look at Ukraine, Denmark etc. in regard to the mobile OS area.
No, statistics are not completely pointless, but they have to be used with proper caution. Particularly when they are known to be flawed (as all statistics are). Web statistics are notoriously flawed, and cannot be used the way some of you are using them. They can at best represent a trend, and that trend is damn clear.
Calling me a zealot is funny. Following threads are hardly your typical GNU/Linux-zealot: http://www.osnews.com/thread?271241
http://www.osnews.com/thread?271248
If I’m a zealot I’m at least not the typical braindead zealot so common on slashdot and such places. Besides that I thought most zealots would attack the messenger, or the opponent, and not the method of collection. Zealots usually aren’t that bright.
Whether it is or not doesn’t really matter in the context of the article.
Your original assertion was that
And then the desktop stats are linked. You ignore this and carry on chatting about mobile then you say this.
And the trends show that for the desktop, Windows 7 usage is increasing, Windows XP & Vista are decreasing, MacOSX is staying the same and Linux is hasn’t moved from the bottom.
Edited 2010-12-18 17:35 UTC
You are twisting my words around and using them with the opposite meaning.
My claim was that Linux on the Desktop was a reality several years. This is merely a matter of technological level and has NOTHING to do with Market Share which will always be near-zero because Linux is free and gratis. My second claim was that Europe was the main area for GNU/Linux desktop. I didn’t claim GNU/Linux was larger than Windows in Europe. Just that Europe was an area where GNU/Linux was doing well. And it is. Flawed statistics does not disprove that, no matter how much you try.
Besides that my claims have nothing to do with market share or usage share per se. But rather with usability.
Linux conquered the desktop back in 2003/04 AFAICT.
EDIT: If you read the post you’ll see that Westlake asked me to take a look at the mobile area. I did that. I did not switch context. Westlake did. I just answered questions in regard to the mobile are. Besides that the mobile area is very much relevant for the desktop and for the distributed systems running on the net (e.g. the cloud).
Edited 2010-12-18 17:48 UTC
“Market Share which will always be near-zero because Linux is free and gratis”
Sorry, could you run that one past me again?
Market share is a measure of new systems being sold.
Most Linux desktops do not appear in these statistics, mostly because people cannot buy new GNU/Linux systems. Google for example has a million Linux servers, and it is replacing Windows on the desktop with either GNU/Linux or Macs (this is up to the individual employees choice), but not a single one of those desktops will appear in market share statistics.
Even if one has to buy a Windows machine, wipe it straight away, and install a full GNU/Linux system instead, the GNU/Linux system will end up with a full set of desktop applications, with better functionality, at a far cheaper overall cost. As a bonus, one is safe thereafter from malware intrusions and from BSA audits.
The machines will still, however, all be counted as part of Windows market share. This is the way it is.
Edited 2010-12-21 03:31 UTC
Sorry, you’re simply wrong, this site put Linux use at around 1% marketshare as measured by ‘collecting data from the browsers of site visitor’
http://marketshare.hitslink.com/faq.aspx
I didn’t.
Linux is free and (according to you) pretty good on the desktop. Yet it is soo good, you can’t give it away?? Wait a sec ..
[sarcasm]Yes a small marker share is doing so much better than a miniscule market share.[/sarcasm]
How are the statistics flawed … you still haven’t actually told me what is so wrong with them.
Usability is terrible compared to my Windows 7 machine. Gnome is slightly better than Windows 95.
Look for yourself,
http://piestar.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/lucid_vs_windows-300x…
No it didn’t, was at 1% then and 1% now.
WTF!? What kind of childish arguments are you using? I’ll discuss no further with you. This is my last post to you.
Claiming Gnome equals Windows 95 with a screenshot which could be used to prove Windows 7 is identical to Win95. WTF? That small screenshot proves nothing except that you are a troll, a Microserf and a damned lier and zealot. The same could be proven with Vista or Mac OS X or Windows 7. AFAIK Windows 95 didn’t have antialiazing of small fonts, 3D desktop nor subpixel hinting. Windows 7 still cannot do drag’n’drop properly.
What kind of kindergarden is this!?!?
Excellent.
No it doesn’t. If you move the panels/widgets around in Gnome, you get something akin to the Win95/Win98 interface, I do the same in XFCE when using OpenBSD, it does the job, but I don’t have nice features such as aero snap.
You accuse me of being childish after using the term “microserf”.
What that screenshot proves (I couldn’t be arsed to take my own) that if you move the panels around in Gnome, it can easily resemble the Win95 interface. This isn’t true in Windows 7, because the task bar and the startbar work fundamentally different than even Windows Vista and XP.
Firstly I use OpenBSD and Windows, I use OpenBSD for fun and I use Windows for work. I certainly don’t pretend that tinkering with my OpenBSD install means I am using it seriously. A lot of people use OpenBSD for work I am sure, but it doesn’t suit my needs consider I am a ASP.NET/C# web developer.
No it can’t, MacOSX works fundamentally different than Windows and Gnome. The menu/top bar (whatever it is called) is a control for all windows from the same program(more of less). In Gnome and Windows there the menu bar is part of each window of a program that is currently running.
None of these enhance usability. They make it look nicer and add polish but they do not enhance usability.
I can turn off aero, cleartype, transparent windows etc on Windows 7 and it will still fundamentally work the same as Windows 7, it doesn’t suddenly turn into Windows 95.
However if I remove all of that from Gnome, I am left with Windows 95 interface (if move some panels about).
Everything I use for Drag and Drop works properly, so in what way doesn’t it work?
Edited 2010-12-19 18:02 UTC
You said Linux was doing good in Europe, you did NOT say “Linux is doing good in Europe*” (*from a technological and NOT an adoption standpoint). He then produced figures, and you start screaming shill and changing the point of conversation. And now stats don’t matter? How are you SUPPOSED to count Linux then, by using pixie dust?
The ONLY place Linux has gained ANY share at all is Droid, which is just as locked down and GUI centric as any Windows desktop. My router runs Linux too, it don’t really help “Linux adoption” on the desktop now, does it? Using Linux in embedded devices is a tradition that goes back aways thanks to the ability to “TiVo” it, which is why Droid devices are using GPL V2. Again a locked down embedded OS is pretty much the same across the board and for the purpose of this discussion, which was Ubuntu VS Windows, is neither here nor there.
And while I can’t speak for Europe i CAN speak for the southern US, and here you will not find a SINGLE shop, not big, not small, selling Linux, why? Are we getting paid by a big MSFT money truck? I wish! It is that NOBODY WANTS IT…full stop. Best Buy, Staples, Walmart, the smaller stores like mine, we have ALL tried selling it, and were looking at on average 70-80% returns compared to 3-5% for Windows. Now since you have to sell returns as used by law that VERY quickly made Linux MORE expensive than Windows. The reason for returns? Their apps don’t work, their PMPs won’t interface, their printers won’t print, and of course the always lovely “update broke my stuff” fun.
So if you find Linux the most wonderful thing since sliced bread, hey I’m happy for you. But the numbers do NOT show that others agree. Show us a SINGLE statistic, anywhere, that shows Linux has made more than a single percentage gain ON THE DESKTOP, not mobile, not embedded, and I’ll be happy to declare you the winnar!
Oh and final food for thought, just to highlight why retailers don’t like your OS…ever look at those Ubuntu netbooks by Dell…closely? Ever notice anything…funny…about them? Like how Dell has to RUN THEIR OWN REPOS and disable the Canonical ones? why is that? I’ll tell you, it is because Canonical does such lousy QA that even with their teeny tiny amount of OEM machines to support you can NOT use Canonical repos without breaking the sound and networking drivers! Whee! what fun for the customer! And since most of us don’t want to have to set up our own blooming servers and pay developers to support an OS which doesn’t make us any money anyway, we’ll just add that to the checklist of why we don’t sell no Linux round here.
I don’t want to go into your debate but I just have address that quote.
The return rate is a direct result of a poor job on your part. You don’t sell a Linux machine like a Windows machine. It’s not a Windows machine. When you sell something you have to make sure your customers understand what they are buying or else you are useless. If you sold them the latest Ubuntu, did you tell your customers that the computer you sold them contained beta or alpha software, that may contain bugs? Did you warn them about software compatibility? Did you capitalize on the first returned machines and stop doing the same mistake again? No? Then you have only yourself to blame for the return rate. You did a very poor job at selling your product and you deserve that return rate.
When you sell a product, you have to make sure your customers are trained to use it or to sell them the training they need, you have to make sure you don’t sell them something they don’t want and you have to capitalize on their feedback. That is your job. If you don’t want to do that job, just quit selling. Sooner or later you will have to pay for that and the cost may be much higher than what you may gain from poor sells.
Edited 2010-12-20 14:03 UTC
none of the Fourty of so Linux or Solaris systems I work on would figure in those stats.
They run all the external facing sites of a Billion $ enterprise. However they are all receiving web hits and are not only firewalled but load balanced off a direct connection to the internet.
This is pretty common in Enterprise businesses. We run SAP, Oracle, Websphere App Server etc all on our servers. The OS of choice was Solaris but since Oracle change the rules of the game, we are agressively moving to RHEL.
SAP/R3 would be moving to Linux if it weren’t for SAP licensing.
This is not some startup but a Billion $ Business.
Windows in the Enterprise? not in this one thank you very much.
W7 is being de-emphasised on many desktop as well. Run what you want as long as it does the job. Linux, XP or OS/X it don’t matter.
Where did you get 30% from?
Gartner, probably. They charge money for their reports, but they are widely quoted, for example, here:
http://www.linuxinsider.com/rsstory/71213.html?wlc=1289429519&wlc=1…
The actual worldwide 3Q10 sales numbers are #1 Symbian (28.2%) and #2 Android Linux (25.5%), with iOS and Blackberry trailing in third and fourth. The other Linux-based mobile operating systems (Bada, webOS, Maemo, and some other minor variants) aren’t mentioned in that particular article, but were around 5% last I checked. Windows was also around 5% and dropping; it will interesting to see if the WinP7 launch (described as “disappointing” in the USA) will make an impact in 4Q10 numbers.
I’m curious – were you unaware that Android is a Linux product, or unaware of its 827% growth rate this year in the mobile space?
Edited 2010-12-19 11:28 UTC
Android is not a “Linux product”. It has a modified Linux kernel, among many other differences.
The context of my comments were about Linux on the desktop.
You seem to get lost between “It uses a modified Linux kernel” and “Android is not a Linux product”. A Linux product is a product built on Linux technology. Android is. It really is just that simple. (Maybe you meant it’s not a Gnu/Linux product? We’d agree there – Android has a custom user land built on Java technology. 😉
Speaking of remarkable leaps, the thread was:
Probably from Gartner.
[/q]
The context of my comments were about Linux on the desktop.
[/q]
Jumping from “30% in the mobile area” to “the context of my comments were about Linux on the desktop” is… well, remarkable. 😀
Please… it’s beginning to get old. Nobody cares about the difference between Linux and GNU/Linux; it is good for nothing aside from making excuses and showing off. Users only care about the userland (hence the name). Since Android doesn’t use the Linux userland, it is not a “Linux OS”, at least not in the same way as Meego is.
Yes, but as a brand, Linux is as marginal on phones as on the desktop. It would be great if Nokia and Meego could change that.
“…the Linux userland…”
You say this as if there’s a standard Linux userland. That’s why I tried to help with specifying “gnu” – that’s the most popular desktop userland (but by no means the only one).
But on mobile, the most popular is currently the one called “Android”.
Other platforms have different, often radically different, userlands. It’s a feature.
‘…doesn’t use the Linux userland, it is not a “Linux OS”‘
That’s possibly the most bizarre claim I’ve ever seen on OSNews. If you switch userlands, the kernel is magically different? Seriously?!?
Look, this is really very simple. A Linux product uses the Linux kernel. Linux is everywhere (don’t look now), from phones to HDTVs to autos to routers to supercomputers. I have no idea why that worries you so; it’s excellent code, hence its amazing success, and it’s very open, hence… its amazing success.
Pretending that Android is powered by magic Google dust instead of Linux won’t change that, but if it makes you feel better, then… *shrug*
I’m not at all lost. Android is not a “Linux product”. It’s a Google product.
Calling it a Linux product is about as accurate as calling a plane that uses Mercedes jet engines a Mercedes product. It may use a component of what the general person considers Linux (i.e. the userland experience), that is a modified kernel but calling it a “Linux product” is simply misleading.
I think you would be right in every case except the one where the product is using the linux kernel. In that case I would absolutely say it is linux. Everything else on top is just cruft.
“Android is not a “Linux product”. It’s a Google product.”
Google is a company. Linux is a technology. Your comment is a non sequiter.
And Android is a Linux product created by Google.
And a darned successful one, too. 🙂
Android is not a “Linux product”. It’s a Google product. I supose if you want to get down to it, we’re both wrong as the site describes it as a software stack.
http://developer.android.com/guide/basics/what-is-android.html
Edited 2010-12-20 03:38 UTC
…with a Linux kernel. Look at the diagram on the page you just linked to. Linux kernel.
erm… modified linux kernel is STILL a linux kernel. And when they say modified they mean it has things that the mainline linux kernel did not accept. But it still tracks the mainline linux kernel, patches flow easily between them and it operates in much the same way.
Also…Define “Linux Product”. Who makes these mystical products, what are their characteristics?
Edited 2010-12-19 18:48 UTC
The country with the largest share of Linux users is the Vatican ?: http://gs.statcounter.com/#os-VA-monthly-200911-201011
It’s just some Italian geek who hangs out at a coffee shop there.
When talking about statistics and Linux users, some are really fun to watch:
Take Norfolk Island, they might just have one or a few users. But they went from Windows XP to Windows Vista and to Linux in just a few months:
http://gs.statcounter.com/#os-NF-daily-20100719-20101218
If you look at the charts for mobile vs Linux, you’ll notice that the hugely successful iPad is still not nearly as big as Ubuntu. The iPhone, the most hyped gadget the last few years, is still only slightly bigger than all Linuxes minus Android.
http://stats.wikimedia.org/archive/squid_reports/2010-10/SquidRepor…
Yet some people will claim that the desktop is dead and mobile is the new king. Others will pretend Linux is a dismal failure compared to the same equally small mobile space.
Fact is, though, that Linux is big enough to sustain a healthy developer community, which in turn makes it a usable desktop platform for most purposes. For the rest, you need Photoshop.
So 99% of users need Photoshop. Adobe must be delighted.
Most users’ needs can be adequately met with Linux.
Hence the huge success that Linux enjoyed on netbooks… 🙂
Irrelevant. The fact that most people can use something doesn’t mean they will. People will stick to the brand name they know, and more people know Windows. Even Apple hasn’t enjoyed much of a rise in market share, despite getting more PR than practically everyone else put together.
The only thing relevant to Linux’s success is that it’s usable. 10 years or so ago, it wasn’t, as IE and its mangled HTML dominated the web; after Mozilla and OpenOffice took off, and libdcss took care of DVD decryption, Linux has been pretty much on par with Windows and Mac OS for everything except specialist applications like Photoshop. Whining about market share, for me, as a user, is like crying into my beer for it being less popular than the inferior Budweiser. I’d rather just enjoy my drink.
What is interesting is that the list of “specialist” desktop applications that are not well catered for on Linux is ever-shrinking. One such application which used to be often quoted was Autocad, but Bricscad for Linux now has that covered. In reality, a combination of digikam (for digital photos) and krita (for actual raster graphics composition), or indeed the new single-window-mode of GIMP, has Photoshop covered for the vast majority of uses.
The list of desktop applications where “you can’t do that on GNU/Linux” is shrinking more and more. Essentially, this former criticism of desktop GNU/Linux is now out of date, but once again people in general don’t know that.
Are you a graphic designer?
Do you work in a drawings office?
TBH unless you work in these industries … your opinion of whether an open source alternative is good enough is pretty much worthless.
You can’t work in both industries (and I suspect you don’t work in either) means that you are basing your conclusions on second hand information.
Assumption can be dangerous. I, as graphic design, often work with open source alternative. Even your favourite industries do use them though they will not admit these facts.
My point was that he couldn’t possibly work in both (since they are massively different skillsets) however he was claiming to know best about both, which he can’t since he has no first hand experience.
Most people will use something that works. Doesn’t matter what is running underneath.
I have popcorn hour box media center, it is just a MIPS computer with a harddrive and a HDMI out, running an Embedded Linux. Whether it runs Linux or not isn’t really important to me, in fact the only reason I know it runs Linux is because someone told me.
HTC desire, If I didn’t know that Android was built on top of Linux I wouldn’t know from using it.
Both of these devices have their own custom UI running on top of Linux, I don’t see “Linux” anywhere, I don’t see the userland or any of the application. I am presented with the UI that lets me use the device as it was intended.
Linux has 33% share (worldwide) of netbooks.
I’ll see your satcounter, and raise you a w3schools.
http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_os.asp
5% finally, at Nov 2011.
There is a lot of inertia to overcome here, especially since ordinary consumers are not allowed to buy GNU/Linux systems in stores. Having said that, slowly perhaps the rules excluding Linux from competing are beginning to change:
http://www.linuxinsider.com/story/71481.html
Really, the thing to be overcome is a lack of end user familiarity with Linux desktop applications. Just because Linux desktop applications are not exactly the same as more familiar equivalents on Windows, by no means are the Linux desktop applications inferior. The problem is that most people are not aware of this.
http://jeffhoogland.blogspot.com/2010/12/user-familiarity-software-…
User Familiarity != Software Superiority
Did you read the article?
I agree with dylansmrjones the year of the Linux desktops already happened. Several Linux distros produce desktops that are more than usable, many Windows users would be better off with these distros.
However, the article brings up potential issues between Canonical and Redhat. I’d like to see them both strong. I’m interested in the way Ubuntu’s going with Unity, Wayland etc looks like innovation to me. Nevertheless Redhat’s a more major contributor Linux development.
Issues? i don’t think so. The market is big enough for both and working together would benefit them more than rivalry.
I said potential issues.
I agree in a large, even expanding market there should be enough space for both companies to find their niche and cooperation would be to the benefit of all.
However thats not to say it will go that way people have egos,can be foolish and can be sectarian etc etc.
Edited 2010-12-18 13:19 UTC
Was there an article about Linux on desktop somewhere?
Hey did you even read the article or the summary.
*hint* it does not talk about the year of the linux desktop.
Still doing better than “the year of Windows in the datacenter” though.
if operating systems are being compared. The difference is really in the name and support contract.
As for the stats that someone posted to earlier, those stats are based on desktop usage. This was an article about servers. If you really want some interesting stats, check out the number of web servers running on each OS type. Windows isn’t the only game in town.
As for competition with Red Hat, I will say what I have said before. There is NO development coming out of Canonical. Compared to what Red Hat produces its not even on the map. Also remember that Canonical is only interested in monetizing Ubuntu. (Mark’s words not mine) And while Ubuntu might be the shiny new toy everyone wants to begin with, when the toy breaks it isn’t Canonical that’s going to be able to fix it. Its Red Hat. You better hope nothing bad happens to Red Hat, or the damage to the platform could be immense.
That is something that doesn’t matter at all for a company when they compare the products. They care about reliability, support, ..
I also don’t care about it for my personal use, I’m interested in the user experience and how easily I can find solutions for the problems I encounter.
… which you’re not gonna get from a company like Canonical. Giving away CDs and hype can only take you so far.
I don’t know whether you know about this:
http://www.canonical.com/enterprise-services/ubuntu-advantage/suppo…
I can’t tell you how good or bad the support is, but it is there for customers who like to pay for it.
The reliability and support comes from people who write the software and know exactly how it works. Canonical has had many such disasters over the years, such as when they didn’t know how CUPs worked.
Canonical has none of those people. I just wonder what those employees there do…….
Edited 2010-12-21 12:46 UTC
I second the previous observation by GoneFishing, TechGeek and others. I think the seeming lack of involvement by Canonical in Linux projects should really matter to Linux users.
Here’s an interesting post (though somewhat outdated, 2008) that gives a ranking of contributors involved in the development of 3 major open source projects, Linux kernel, gcc and Xorg: http://www.kroah.com/log/linux/lpc_2008_keynote.html
I’ve mostly been under Ubuntu myself, since I’ve switched to Linux. I like the OS, but I’m pondering switching to a distrib whose company gives back more to the Linux community. Red Hat or Novell are the 2 alternatives that stand out here (see the 2010 Linux Foundation report at http://www.linuxfoundation.org/docs/lf_linux_kernel_development_201…)
==
As to the users who think they don’t care, let’s put it another way: whatever Linux distribution you’re using, you don’t want major contributors to go out of business, or stop participating in the effort. Therefore, it does make sense to support them.
Edited 2010-12-19 21:21 UTC
The article is empty of substance. Talking about server deployment and linking that to developers desktop is a bit weird. Ubuntu is a desktop oriented distro. Developers know that. It does not mean administrators use Ubuntu on the server!
Also the Amazon EC2 statistics are completely unrelated to server usage. Those are about virtual machines. The server actually serving those virtual machines are not mentioned. Many of those may not even be serving anything. They may be test machines used by developers indeed.
The Infoworld page is also crippled by adverts. The actual article only covers 25% of the page and it is spread over 2 pages when the content could fit in one paragraph.
The only thing interesting about that is the trolling in OSNews comment section, that is not related to the article but it’s fun anyway.
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