Submitted by A few days ago, we concluded (yes, we did!) that it was cool to run Windows 3.1 on your Nokia N95 using Qemu. Of course, the Apple world couldn’t stay behind, and now we have one of Apple’s obsolete operating systems running on the iPhone: System 7, also using Qemu.
If you long for the days of a grayscale Mac OS, without memory protection or any of those other pesky modern shebang thingies that only bloat the operating system (who needs memory protection anyway), you can now relive the glorious days of System 7 on your iPhone. Well, as soon as the code is out, anyway.
All the credit obviously goes to the guys over at the MacOS iPhone Project. They plan on releasing the code soon enough, but they want something relatively complete and working first. We can add this to the list of cool but totally pointless things you can do with a mobile phone.
Next on my list? CDE on my Nokia E71.
No, we didn’t. What we concluded was beer and chicks are cool, no, are awesome… and running Windows 3.1 on a Nokia N95 was pointless and only gave geeks erect nipples.
Edited 2009-02-26 09:48 UTC
No, we didn’t. What we concluded was beer and chicks are cool, no, are awesome… and running Windows 3.1 on a Nokia N95 was pointless and only gave geeks erect nipples.
We didn’t conclude that either. Beer tastes horrible. Ugh. Only men can drink such horrible stuff and like it! :O
And still, running System 7 on an iPhone IS cool. Almost as cool as Win3.1 on N95
Running anything on the iPhone that Apple didn’t approve is cool.
Beer is awesome. Just don’t drink the cheap, macro-produced crap they brew full of adjuncts like rice and corn to kill taste. I could really go for an Ayinger Ur-Weisse right about now… or a good porter, brown ale or stout. Then again, on the lager side, a Great Lakes Dortmunder Gold or some variety of Vienna lager or dunkel lager sounds good. Mmmm.
Of course, if you already think all beer is nasty, those crappy macro lagers are probably all you’ve drank… too bad, that’s the only type of beer most people know about. Just another case where something that’s clearly “best” in virtually every way gets demolished in the market (sales-wise) simply due to its higher price.
Edited 2009-02-26 10:24 UTC
No offense, but if you want real beer, you’ve got to go to belgium. There you can have real beer for cheap.
If you go to Brussels, go visit the delirium pub. They have 2500 kind of beers (literally). There are beers for all tastes. From Trappists to krieks, all belgian beer taste good.
You can find some real beers in the US, but they are imported from belgium and they are damn expensive. I think you can find blue Chimay over there, but for $10 the bottle?
Yeah, I’ve tried the three Chimays. And they are wicked expensive, about $10 a bottle as you said. Duvel is also around here also, at a whopping $12 for a 4-pack of 11.2oz bottles (!!!). I’ve had all four beers, and while good, they’re certainly not worth the price (and some Chimays were better than others)… but then, a short trip to Belgium to get lots of Belgian beer for a low price couldn’t be too cheap either. And time would be seriously limited.
Also, this is just personal preference, but Belgian beers aren’t exactly the kind I would drink very often. There’s just something about them I can’t point a finger at; perhaps their intense sweetness or something? Yes, they’re pretty damn good, but I’m more into English and German style ales.
$10? Oh, that’s reasonable… I think I’ve lived in Singapore for waayyyyy too long. (I was once bragging to friends back home on how I found a place that sells pints for S$7.50 – half of what I normally pay for it – they couldn’t understand my enthusiasm)
That’s rather a simplistic statement. What you ment to say was if you want a trappist or lambic style beer Belgium is the place to go. If you want a real good pilsner Belgium wouldn’t make my top three list. For bitters and real ales Britain is obvioulsy the place to go. Don’t get me wrong Belgium makes some awsome beers, and I drink them all the time, but it’s not like they’re the only place.
Is a very narrow and limited subsection of beers.
Let’s check the nationalistic pride at the door. I have had plenty of shit Belgian beers.
I’m not from belgium BTW.
I just don’t know any place in the world with that many different beers and it is not a matter of taste. If you like british beer, you should check the hommelbier from belgium.
I am not being nationalistic at all (it is not even my country) and I’m not the only one who think belgian beers are the best. It’s not a matter of taste. Look at what wikipedia think of belgian beers:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belgian_beer
“Belgian beer comprises the most diverse national collection of quality beer in the world”
It’s cold numbers. Nowhere in the world can you find a pub with 2500 diffeent beers but in Belgium. Belgium has more english-style beers than england itself and most of them taste better than english beers.
I’d rather have 10 good beers than 2500 where most are crap. Not saying they are but there’s no way all 2500 are good.
Actually, it is. Taste is everything with beer.
Trappist beer is awesome though but so’s Guiness, Carlsberg, San Miguel (the Filipino one, not the Spanish piss you get over in Europe), Samuel Adams, Kirin etc etc.
Many != good.
Edited 2009-02-26 13:20 UTC
Out of the 2500, 2400 are good, trust me.
It is a matter of culture and competition. Whitin a country that has 2500 kind of beers, there is no way you can sell crap beer. You just can’t. And it is not a matter of taste. Can you argue that Windows 3.1 look better than Max OS X? Only 1 people out of 1000 will tell you that Windows 3.1 look good and that will be because of nostalgia because that man has been doing windows 3.1 for too long. For 99.99% of the people, windows 3.1 is inferior to Modern OS. You can’t argue that American Budweiser is a good beer with a straight face. Only 0.01% of the people will like this beer.
I’m not kidding. Carlsberg and stuff, they’re good until you have been to belgium. It’s cultural. In country X, they do beer good enough to sell them and maximize profit, but in belgium, you can’t sell good enough. The belgian beer market is the most competitive in the world, by a large margin. The japanese people speack japanese better than anyone else (obviously). The belgian beer are better than other beers (as obvious). If you want good whisky, go to scotland. If you want good wine, go to France. But if you want best beer, it’s belgium. You can’t argue that. (Again, I’m not from belgium and it is not only my opinion, but the opinion of 99% of the people, including wikipedia and other independant reference sources)
Edited 2009-02-26 13:49 UTC
No they’re not. Unless you have a really liberal definition of good. Based upon my own fairly extensive, but somewhat un-scientific experiments, I’d say that of beer chosen at random has maybe 20% chance of being really good, and perhaps a 10% chance of bordering towards undrinkable.
Belgium undoubtedly make some of the best beer I’ve had, but they also make some of the worst beer I’ve had. Belgium beer is nothing if not varied.
Germany has over 5000 beers. Are you telling me there are no crap German beers?
Nobody is.
I wager that if you did a large scale taste test more people would prefer Budweiser over a Trappist. Budweiser may not be good, but it’s so neutral and unoffensive that very few people will actually dislike the taste.
I have one word for you: InBev.
Now what was your argument again?
Based on what metric?
Just saying “obvious” after a statement does not make the statement true.
If you’d continued the pattern you’d set up and said: “if you want good beer, it’s belgium. You can’t argue that.” I would have agreed. Or even if you’d said some of the best, or the best in its class I would have agreed as well. Again saying that Belgium beer is invariably great and that Belgium makes the best beers in all categories simply shows your ignorance of the wide varieties of beer on offer around the world. I have had Danish pilsners and English real ales that are far superior to any Belgium beers I’ve had in the same category.
99% of what people? Making up random numbers without saying how you arrived to them really weakens your argument.
All I could find on wikipedia was that Belgian beer is held in high regard. No one is arguing that. Where does wikipedia claim that Belgian beer is across the board the best in the world? Really if you’re going to cite wikipedia to back up your argument, at least make sure wikipedia agrees with you.
PS: you do realize that Budweiser is owned by a Belgium company right?
Ah, I see. So the more products that flood the market the better they all become? Seriously? That’s hilariously assbackwards.
And as dagw said, Germany has 5000 beers so obviously they’re even better on beer than Belgium.
Nobody here has argued that.
I’ve had belgian beer, liked it and I still like other beers.
There are other countries than Belgium with a beer culture, ya know.
Uh, how in the hell does that even compare to beverages?
Don’t tell the Irish.
There are good wines from California. There are good wines from Australia.
You should replace “best” with “good” in that sentence.
Edited 2009-02-26 17:47 UTC
Not the same at all. For one thing it’s brewed to over 7%, which gives it a very different charactaristic from british ales.
Look I’m not arguing that Belgium doesn’t have many great beers, it does. Many of my favorite beers are Belgian. But saying Belgium beers are the best as an absolutist statement is just silly.
The Delirium Pub here in Sweden claims 2000 different beers, and there’s another pub in Stockholm claiming 1400. Given how small a country Sweden is I’d be very surprised to learn that no othe country had pubs with similar selections.
I’ve also had a fair number of those beers sold at Delirium and honestly most of them aren’t very good. In fact I’ve basically stopped going to Delirium in favour of pubs that take a more curatorial approach to their beer selection. I’d rather have a pub with 100 great betters and 100 bad beers over a pub with 100 great beers and 2400 bad beers. The odds are much better that way.
Really, where did you get this from? According to CAMRA there are over 2500 different real ales brewed regularly in Britain. Are you seriously telling me that Belgium makes more british styled real ale than that?
Really? Name three Belgium beers that can compete against a top british real ale as a british style real ale. You’re getting carried away with your praise for Belgium here.
Hmm…and since we just learned that Belgium has 2500 beers that mean they only make ale. Who, then, make the Trappist and kriek?
No way. Lithuanian beers are the way to go. Maybe not 2500 kinds, but who needs so many?
True, Lithuanian beer is very good. I we Poles learned how to brew beer from you and not Chechs
.
Actually, it’s even simpler than that … just don’t buy beer from the States! Pretty much everywhere in the world makes good beer … except the States. I honestly do not know how they can even call that swill “beer”. I mean, come on, 2%? And 4% is considered “extra strong”?
Not that Canada’s a bastion of perfect brews, but at least we have Kokanee and Alexander Keith’s. Miles beyond anything that the States has.
I know this popular opinion, but it is also inaccurate. There are a fair few breweries in the States that do a good beer. Quality beer brewing has seen something of a resurgence in the US over that past few years.
Where? I don’t think any State has the limit set below 3.2% And even in states that have those limits they don’t apply to what can be bought in liqueur stores.
I serious recommend you take a second look at US breweries. There are plenty of them that can easily give Keith’s a good run for its money.
You don’t know US microbrews too well do ya?
http://www.ratebeer.com/Ratings/Ratings-Top50.asp
Just looking at the top five, 1 Belgium, 1 Sweedish, and 3 American. Those 3 American are 13%, 14%, and 29% (Barley Wine).
Lets now argue about how unrepresentitive that site is.
BTW: My favorite beer is Belgium, but over all prefer British.
Nope, especially since you’ll rarely, if ever, find them outside of the locale they’re brewed in, and even more rarely up in Canada. But every beer brand I’ve tried while travelling through the States has been horrible in comparison to Kamloops Brewery, Columbia Brewery, or (whatever Keith’s brewery is called) beers. And all those malt beverages are just plain gross.
But, that could be my bias toward IPA/lagers coming out, since I also can’t stand most of the European beers. With the exception of Heinecken and Beck’s. The Asian beers like Tsing Tao and another one I can’t recall the name too, are much more to my liking.
Since you make Lapin Kulta you’re not really qualified to have an opinion on beer
i somehow agree about the uselessness, but wasnt it win3.1 using dosbox not qemu??
There’s already a port of Mini vMac to the iPhone: http://namedfork.net/iphone/minivmac/ And as far as I can tell, that’s exactly what this is, just with a different icon.
I wouldn’t mind being proven wrong, though. I’ll reserve judgment until then.
you are not wrong and mini vmac has been out for ages….
move along, nothing new to see here… just news sites being wrong (again)
Edited 2009-02-26 13:34 UTC
If you were lucky enough to be alive during the System 7 days (I was just at kid at school but still remember it vividly), then you’ll find this pretty cool.
Nothing demonstrates the power of Moore’s law than seeing somebody have the Mac OS you played with at school with awe, now on your phone.
I’m sure in 15 years time kids will be running Windows 7 on their micro-gadget for a laugh as well.
You have just have love the pace in which technology betters itself. Amazing.
You mean… those things that ran slow as hell in the computer lab, always getting disconnected from the server, always crashing, never allowing anything to be done…?
Ironically, Windows machines of the time shared those traits to an extent as well if they weren’t properly maintained, and looking back the Macs could have very well been badly set up systems and the school could have done OS upgrades that the hardware couldn’t handle. I would *hope* the school would hire competant system administrators, but that’s probably not the case.
Who knows, but either way, I had a Gateway PC running Win95 (and later 98) that, as long as it didn’t have any malware, smoked the school’s Macs. Eventually the filesystem would somehow “lose” necessary system files though and fail to boot into Windows, requiring at least copying them back over to the hard drive from the CD-ROM within MS-DOS, or a complete format/reinstall.
Man, looking back, operating systems sucked bigtime back then.
Mac OS X came out and I was extremely weary, but after trying it years ago in high school not long after it came out, I realized that it was quite solid for a change, stability-wise. Am I the only one who found Mac OS Classic to be a massive PITA? I hated Macs for the longest time, and used to make fun of them all the time. Ah… the good old days.
Edited 2009-02-26 13:33 UTC
That’s why we used to say “Amiga does it better”. It had its problems too, though.
MacOS Classic was the sum of other systems’ problems: it had a ugly cooperative multitasking (as like as Windows 3.1), and was just a little more stable than AmigaOS (guru meditation anyone?). But I loved it. At least as much as I loved AmigaOS at the time. There was something magic in its GUI. For today’s standard it was minimalistic, but I always had the feeling it was studied to follow human mind schemes, while other GUI pretended the user to follow their ones. Every operation was smart and intuitive, really, even my grandma would have used it without serious issues.
When I bought my 2nd hand G3/500 iBook, I wiped out MacOSX and re-installed 9.1 Classic for a reason: it was faster on that machine (while X was really, really slow, and I used it for very long time. Sometimes I turn it on again, make some really basic operations and think about how complex this world has become, since then.
I’ll tell you what was cooler still. Being used to working on an Apple IIe in computer class and then seeing the Lisa for the first time.
http://www.digibarn.com/collections/systems/apple-lisa2xl/index.htm…
Heh, I have an Apple IIe lying somewhere around the house. It was my first computer (not counting video game systems from Atari), although easily my most forgettable. I recall seeing green for a few seconds after looking at its screen long enough and then looking away (that can’t be good…). My first PC (the ’97 Gateway I previously mentioned, which as I said ran Win95 and later 98/SE) has many of my best memories of “older” OSes (specifically, Win9x and MS-DOS).
Ironically, that old Gateway is sitting on the floor in the other side of the room, and I still don’t know for sure what to do with it since very little wants to run in 64 megs and what does run is either seriously outdated just doesn’t run as well as I’d like… my only options for it (that I can think of) are:
1. Install Win98SE and set it to boot directly into MS-DOS (don’t want to go through the trouble of finding Win98 binary drivers for the sound and video cards)
2. Install FreeDOS and use it pretty much as I would MS-DOS (put old games on it)
3. Install BeOS MAX Edition or wait for Haiku
4. Install Puppy Linux on it (doesn’t run great, but it’s better than nothing… and at least graphics and sound card driver are recognized)
Currently however, I just have it set up as a dual-boot of Win98SE (directly into MS-DOS mode) and BeOS MAX. I can’t even get Absolute Linux installed on that thing without the installation CD giving me “out of memory” errors while attempting to boot from it…
Seriously though, as it is, I’m wondering if it’s even worth holding on to that Gateway any more. It’s virtually 100% useless these days. Same with the Apple IIe (I don’t even know where that one even is).
In retrospect, I’m thinking I didn’t have a very good teacher for that class, because he never spoke of the future or all the things computers might be good for eventually. All he did is teach us some basic programs which seemed pointless at the time. There was no discussion of hardware at all. Never mentioned Unix once I’m sure.
Now, I’m told, at my former high school they’re teaching Linux, Cisco networking, etc.
What we can conclude is that qemu runs, thus fairly many things probably can be run on top of it. And – as mentioned above – chicks and beer are cool, which probably wasn’t under debate I presume
Most of the beer I brew tastes better at room temperature. I have made a few batches that are better cool, but they were made to keep people who aren’t used to anything but macro brews happy.
I can’t see any documentation on the web about Qemu being able to run any Classic Mac OS. In fact, I’ve seen it said that running Mac OS 9 is a target for Qemu development, and that it should be easier than running pre-8.5 versions because 8.5 and above come with ROM images already.
The photographs look very convincing, but I would have to get a copy of System 7 and try it in Qemu before I’ll be convinced.
Bier is voor paupers.
Real men drink Martini. And not the American variant, but the European one: plain Martini, in a longdrink glass, not mixed or cocktailed with anything else.
Preferably straight from the bottle.
Not everyone can be a snotty, rich wanker.
Snotty: yes. Wanker: oh yes. Rich: no.
It was in jest. In my class at high school, when I was about 14, we all drank Martini. That’s what we started off with, and in my case, it stuck.
Never liked beer. You can’t imagine how many times I’ve heard all those jokes about what sex Martini is supposed to be for
.
I guess you mean Martini the Italian vermouth, which is sold as “Martini & Rossi” in the USA. Surprisingly for us Europeans, an American “dry Martini” the cocktail from James Bond movies, has no “Martini & Rossi” in it. It’s made of gin and a little bit of French dry vermouth, for instance Noily Prat.
http://www.drinkboy.com/Cocktails/Recipe.aspx?itemid=103
http://www.drinkboy.com/Articles/Article.aspx?itemid=18
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martini_(cocktail)
http://imgs.sfgate.com/c/pictures/2008/08/13/wi-vermouth15_jp_04988…
I see an advertising opportunity here.
Afterall, it’s not that big of a deal that someone got “OS whatever” running in QEmu.
Or, are we going to start seeing “news” posts that “Windows 98 is running on an iPhone”, “Windows XP is running on a Nokia”, “FreeBSD is running on a WinCE device” … when in reality, they’re all running in QEmu.
Let’s at least be excited about what actually happened, and not some sensationalistic non-newsworthy thing.
Afterall, it’s not that big of a deal that someone got “OS whatever” running in QEmu.
Or, are we going to start seeing “news” posts that “Windows 98 is running on an iPhone”, “Windows XP is running on a Nokia”, “FreeBSD is running on a WinCE device” … when in reality, they’re all running in QEmu.
I do agree partially. It would be MUCH cooler if you got one of the well-known older/alternative OSes running natively on such devices, but as System 7 and Win3.1 are both closed source the chances are non-existent… I still very, very deeply wish I could get Linux kernel running natively on my Nokia 6630. I’d be a happy clam even if I had to code all the rest myself
Anyway, of course it is a big feat to get a complete virtual machine working on a device of such size and computing-power. That’s a lot bigger feat though than running something inside it, however.
Personally, I stay away from alocohol. It muddles the mind, causes one to lose his or her judgement, and has caused some pretty horrible insurrections in my family– say, beginning with my dad getting addicted to the stuff and now ending in him sexually active with who knows how many people and divorce, not to mention beating people in my family. I haven’t seen him in years– nobody in my family has. Good riddance to him, I say.
Not that everyone who drinks alcoholic beverages is a dirty dog. I’ve just had bad experiences with that. So instead, I enjoy water as well as Apple Beer.
Mmm! Apple Beer…
http://www.applebeer.com
As for system 7, I remember using my old Macintosh Plus with OS 6 point something or other. They looked essentially the same. That was very fun. At least I think it was 6.x… I really ought to buy a “new” Plus just to play with it again as my old one’s monitor is shot. Those were the good, simple days.
Too Fukin Cool!
Some are responding to the actually topic, most are responding to the first comment regarding beer…
…but no-one is responding to the first comment regarding girls. How very telling 🙂
The classic Mac OS ended off coming with a massive amount of bloatware extensions, control panels, startup items, contextual menu items, control strip modules etc that would make the system slow and liable to crash at the drop of a hat.
However, if you stripped the system back to only what you actually needed, it was incredibly fast and very stable. Partition your hard drive into “Applications and OS” and “Documents”, and you’d never suffer data loss again.
Most Macintoshes in schools were just plugged in and turned on, and left to their own devices. System administrators usually didn’t know anything about Macs except that the power button was on the keyboard. So, even today, there’s an unfair perception that the Mac OS was slow and unstable; in its default configuration it was, but remove a few extensions and she’d be rock solid.
Are you referring to specific extensions? If so, which ones?