Submitted by Linux is the clear winner out of a dispute between the Russian legal authorities and schools over who should carry the can over the use of pirated Windows software, The Inquirer magazine reports. Rather than attacking mobsters who peddle pirated copies of Windows directly to companies, the Russian coppers decided to lock up a Sepich headmaster who bought hot Windows software which came from Perm region’s Capital Construction Administration. Microsoft says that the incident has nothing to do with them, but it appears that Russian schools in the area are so scared about being shipped off to a Siberian Gulag, that they are buying Linux gear instead.
Being myself Russian and knowing how things are done here, I don’t think this will happen, because currently our economy is an economy of kickbacks, and school IT procurement is no exception. Microsoft is able to do kickbacks, LUGs are not. Anyway I’m not sure that removing Microsoft from schools altogether is the right solution – I would do Linux AND Windows AND Macs to teach kids diversity from the start.
The way some of these articles sound, it seems as if all the software the schools were using were pirated (correct me if I’m wrong). Even with Microsoft’s famous discounts that come up whenever an entity considers Linux, do you think the school system will be willing to pay anything to MS?
I don’t think all schools are using pirated software. But it doesn’t matter here, since the talk now is about doing something on a federal level, where any payments are likely to be made from the state budget. Decisions about this will be made by officials many of which are corrupt.
I’m not sure I really understand your point. A kickback is only good when you’re trying to get something that has a monetary value attached to it. How’s this for a kickback? Free
Value is exactly the point here. No monetary value -> the bureaucrats in the educational system have no opportunity for getting kickbacks -> they have no interest in arranging this kind of deal countrywide. On the other hand, they can get plenty of cash in kickbacks from Microsoft – say, for arranging a large-scale purchase of their licensed software for the educational sector.
You’re still not quite getting my point. Even in that case the kickback from Microsoft is obviously not going to be more than the sale that’s been arranged. It’s still a net loss any way you look at it. Free is free.
Looks like I’m really not getting your point. A kickback needn’t be more than the sale – just enough to be interesting for the specific official that makes the decision. For example, the decision may be that the schools may NOT deploy Linux and must deploy Windows instead because, say, “kids should get the skills that they will most likely need in the real life, and that means Windows”. The payment for the Windows deployment (for whatever prices) might come from the state budget.
Fair enough. I can see now that I was not grasping the entirety of your position on this either.
The amount needed to buy MS products comes from the State school budget.
The kickback from MS goes into the personal pocket of the education official who makes the decision.
So going with MS benefits the decision-makers, while getting Linux does not. What benefits the State or the schools is of course of lesser priority.
That’s the way the system works!
What don’t people get – good old fashioned Bribery; cash, the officials kids are able to go to the best private school courtacy of Microsofts interests in Russia.
What is deemed corruption in the west is seen as part of normal negotiations in other parts of the world.
lol i was laughing reading this comment how fsckit wasn’t able to understand the basics of kickbacks
Implement something that costs your organization nothing and the most you can hope for is a pat on the back.
Implement something that costs your organization money instead of the free option and you stand to get a monetary award from the company that is selling their service in return for choosing them over the free option.
Kickback… what part is there not to understand? It has nothing to do with the cost to the larger organization, it’s about personal greed.
I think you miss the point– the issue isn’t whether or not Microsoft or Linux or even MacOS is taught in schools; the issue is currently there is no good way to tell if the software is legitimate and people are going to Siberia over software they legally purchased. The risks are simply too great and the rewards are too little for things to continue on as they are; Linux provides a safe harbor for people who wish to be 100% legal and risk free. THESE are the ones who are switching to Linux.
Now whether or not this will cost Microsoft users in the long run or make it difficult for students to compete in a Windows World (TM) is up for debate, but given Microsoft’s response, it becomes likely Microsoft will have to compete in a Linux Russia in the near future…
–bornagainpenguin
You are right in that legitimateness of the software is where the problem starts. But the question of what and why is taught in schools is bound to arise during the discussion of the ways to solve this problem and is likely to define the outcome.
Depends on what you’re actually teaching IT for; to understand how computers work and how to operate them or simply getting them to learn steps to get something going on Word? that is the problem with IT in school right now.
Schools don’t know why they’re teaching IT and for what purpose; to simpy get them to know the steps to accomplish a task, or to learn the fundamentals of IT so that they can pick up any tool (software) and use it without getting confused.
That would be a more useful skill rather than having a gorified “Microsoft Word class”.
I’m sure there are many people in Eastern Europe who would rather use Open Source than face the possibility of being put in a Siberian Gulag. There might just be more to this situation than the article lets on. By using (Gnu/)Linux (or BSD or variants of either) you not only free yourself from the possibility of being jailed, you are also not relying on a foreign (for them) company to provide you with your software and dictate to you how you are allowed to use it and how much you will pay them for the privilege of being able to use their software.
There is the possibility that this switch (however painful it may be for the teachers and students in the short run) may spur a wealth of new software that is specific to that market, and interest some Russian kids in programming or other computer-related activities.
If people try to think outside the box a little bit they may discover that this is not automatically a BAD thing.
Are you for real? Why would anyone from Eastern Europe go to Siberia? USSR is dead, in case you switched the TV on yesterday.
Have you ever heard of Vladimir Putin? USSR is alive and well, my friend. However, if the TV you’re referring to has CNN on (you know, the Communist News Network), you wouldn’t even know it.
Edited 2007-02-10 20:24
Have you ever heard of Vladimir Putin? USSR is alive and well, my friend. However, if the TV you’re referring to has CNN on (you know, the Communist News Network), you wouldn’t even know it.
LOL,I would like to see how Vladimir Putin will send anyone from say, Romania or Poland into gulag. While for Poland that may work by cutting the gas supply for the other ones makes no difference
Definitely you are watching the CNN,not me.But yeah, everyone is entitled to have an opinion.
PS: I live in Eastern Europe.
>>> USSR is alive and well.
)))))))))))))))))
<song>
Born in the USSR,
Born in the USSR ..
</song>
LOOOOOL
I believe you should teach those kids geopolitics – they will get a lot of knowledge from you
))))))
BTW, didn’t you hear about Dart Vaider ? The Dark Empire is alive!
Born in the USSR,
Born in the USSR
That’s an actual song that was popular in Russia a couple of years ago.
You know guys, Perm isn’t that far from Siberia, and the gulags are gone. All they said is that they locked up a headmaster for piracy. The first poster is correct, something about kickbacks is probably involved.
Since the gulags are long gone (Putin or no Putin, gulags were much worse than mere prisons in the frigid wastes of Siberia, they were forced labor camps, usually overflowing with political prisoners or in the worst of Soviet times with people arrested at random) the story seems a little sensationalized.
Why would anyone from Eastern Europe go to Siberia?
From the Article:
“Microsoft says that the incident has nothing to do with them, but it appears that Russian schools in the area are so scared about being shipped off to a Siberian Gulag, that they are buying Linux gear instead.”
Also from Wikipedia Eastern Europe is defined as:
“The region lying between the variously and vaguely defined areas of Central Europe and Russia.”
‘There might just be more to this situation than the article lets on. By using (Gnu/)Linux (or BSD or variants of either) you not only free yourself from the possibility of being jailed, you are also not relying on a foreign (for them) company to provide you with your software and dictate to you how you are allowed to use it and how much you will pay them for the privilege of being able to use their software.’
I’m sure the teacher pleased to hear this while he’s sitting in gaol. 🙂
Jokes aside, I’d mod you up 1 point for a good post but your already at +5!
Piracy helps MS in developing countries, it entrenches their monopoly, as users don’t see there’s an alternative to MS. Most folk aren’t going to fork out six months wages for Vista / MS office, if MS forces them to use only licensed software then Open Source and Linux gains.
If Linux takes a hold in China and India MS is stuffed – this looks like a shot to the foot to me. Oh and I don’t think Light (third world only) versions of Windows will work for MS no one will accept that crap.
Edit (user to users)
Edited 2007-02-10 19:43
You’re right about the developing world, IIRC Romanian prime minister pointed out that piracy has allowed their IT industry to start and flourish, although small, it has allowed it to grow.
Putting a teacher in jail like this is a move by the state (nation if you like) to set a clear example on the public stage. At some level the ex Soviet states do want to restrict piracy and other infringements so that they can move towards the alleged benefits of healthier economic integration with the western world.
On the other hand corrupt practices like software piracy are so deeply embedded in large parts of these countries that putting a head teacher in jail just seems like a publicity stunt for the benefit of foreign companies.
Frankly if I were operating in that environment I would want an open source system for a number of reasons.
Security and stability appears to be an exercise in pain:
– Getting Microsoft updates is an now essential duty of an XP owner … and for the pirates it gets daily more difficult.
– Having working anti-virus and anti-spyware (without paying) is another whole challenge.
Edited 2007-02-10 19:46
Sorry for the inflammatory title of the linked article, but I find it an issue.
http://atrc.net.pk/wiki/pmwiki.php?n=Main.BuyMicrosoftGoToJail
Who wants to go through a software audit? Who can guarantee they can find all the necessary documentation? It was established in the UK that possession of the Certificate of Authenticity is not sufficient proof of legitimate use. http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/07/07/1412247
Rather than deal with the possibility of having the BSA invade, I avoid even legal Microsoft products at our business. It’s not just schools choosing Linux instead of pirating Windows, there are people who refuse to use legitimate copies of MS stuff. Too much strongarm. I’d be scared to use BSA products in a business even if I want to. It’s bad enough dealing with malpractice, who needs another thing hanging over his head.
Guess that student discount doesn’t apply to teacher.
After seeing (years ago) MS backing and promoting piracy of is products (inferior at the time) to destroy established similar products…
… And then when become a ‘de facto’ monopoly inverted its position financing (owning) copyright defendant organisms… putting them to send letters with very clear legal treats (to all legal consumers in the databases – I may still have some of those saved)…
… It’s almost a pleasure to see the backfire.
Like a late justice by twisted paths. No bit of sorry.
Those with no mercy should be treated by their own rules. Actually everybody should be feel their own rules in the flesh.
Its Karma, folks! Let it be strong and grow fast! <G>
-EOC-
Edited 2007-02-11 00:36
After seeing (years ago) MS backing and promoting piracy of is products (inferior at the time) to destroy established similar products…
Time to take your medicine.
Its Karma, folks! Let it be strong and grow fast!
Yes. You should watch your own karma.
many innacuracies in the title to make it more interesting?
“Russian schools” does not mean the same as “maybe some Russian schools in the province of perm”
Then, you just don’t switch to Linux by decree…but by sheer will and hard labour. It is unlikely to happen in any organization, in the same way as, some years ago, it was unthinkable to to forbid smoking in public areas. Then, the general consensus of the society moves forward, and suddenly it’s become possible.
I am sure that in Russia, with a pervasive and tolerated use of piracy, this is very, very unlikely to happen at organizational level. That does not mean that it will NEVER happen. But the private use of Linux must first grow much above the current level, and this will take many years.
…my primary concern is whether or not the teacher will get a fair trial. Somehow I doubt it.
I am happened to be ethnic Russian, and the USA citizen for 8 years now. Reading about sending anyone to GULAG nova-days can only make me smile, because the situation is radically different there now, but that’s beyond the point.
The point is that for the average user Windows are still preferred. I have Dual-boot setup on my P4 PC with 1 GB of RAM (XP Pro and Ubuntu), but still use Windows almost exclusively. Using Linux on same machine feels like I use an older PC all of a sudden.
Majority apps made for Windows always start MUCH faster, they frequently look and feel better polished, a whole lot of FREE software for Windows available (including excellent security apps). This (but not only this) still makes Windows more attractive option for me and millions of users around the world.
Edited 2007-02-12 17:35