According to Google Trends, but also according to Distrowatch, our own statistics here at OSNews and overall sense of the industry during 2006, Ubuntu has a big leap in mind share ahead of its competition (please note that we don’t dare to say “market share”, although we are pretty confident that it’s the most used Linux desktop out there today). The second Fedora has a very small edge ahead of SuSe (while in US is a clear second), while Debian is following fourth. Mandrake+Mandriva (add both names on Google Trends and then sum the results) is clearly way below the previous four distros, but a clear 5th nonetheless. Last year Ubuntu was only a bit ahead of the other distros worldwide, but 2006 seems to have skyrocketed the distribution in the people’s minds and computers.
Ubuntu, King of Distros for 2006
About The Author
Eugenia Loli
Ex-programmer, ex-editor in chief at OSNews.com, now a visual artist/filmmaker.
Follow me on Twitter @EugeniaLoli
I wish Google still did OS share on the zeitgeist.
Edited 2006-12-09 23:16
“I wish Google still did OS share on the zeitgeist.”
Sure, so you can troll with proofs.
Since when has that ever stopped Mr. Ballmer here?
Edited 2006-12-09 23:36
Ok guys he(Notparker) made a perfectly reasonable remark.
Lighten up and allow the man to be reasonable.
As far as Ubuntu and Kubuntu?
I think that they have done one bang up job of putting together a solid distro with a good set of default programs. And did it all on one CD.
I keep a CD of each burned and ready to give away to friends (along with MY personal favorite – a Slackware 11.0 DVD).
A wouldn’t hesitate recommending either one. They are both excellent.
He has to, his average post rating is nearing 0.
He has to, his average post rating is nearing 0.
What, you mean it’s rising again? Wow! 😉
(At the time of posting, his rating is -0.09)
Yes, and it doesn’t matter what threshold you browse at, he still appears 🙂 He must have access to some magic pixie dust.
I wish Google still did OS share on the zeitgeist.
They no longer do, because it’s not an accurate measure of market share. However, this is off-topic, as this article is about mind share, not market share.
Also, it’s not about Linux vs. Microsoft, but about Ubuntu’s popularity vs. other Linux distros. Please don’t turn this into a Linux vs. Windows flame war. If you have something constructive to say about the topic, then please be my guest. If you don’t, then please refrain from trolling this thread. Thank you.
However, this is off-topic, as this article is about mind share, not market share.
I’m pretty sure the article says:
“please note that we don’t dare to say “market share”, although we are pretty confident that it’s the most used Linux desktop out there today”
Sounds like market share is being mentioned even though that usually sends my stalker into a tizzy. Or are they just afraid of being stalked too?
Also, it’s not about Linux vs. Microsoft, but about Ubuntu’s popularity vs. other Linux distros. Please don’t turn this into a Linux vs. Windows flame war. If you have something constructive to say about the topic, then please be my guest. If you don’t, then please refrain from trolling this thread. Thank you.
The OSSnews police has spoken!
If you think Google search choices is a valid topic of dicussions, why not the OS used to make those requests?
I wouldn’t have said one more thing except for your insane post.
Now I think I’ll keep checking in.
Edited 2006-12-10 00:48
Is “mind-share” or shall we say popularity a good thing? In some ways I guess, in other ways – a resounding NO!
🙂
Both. I started using Ubuntu after using Debian for years. Then I switched to Kubuntu. If I stayed with it is because it works fine for me, not because it is popular. But popularity helps a lot: there’s more developers available to work on it, more users to report bugs, etc.
Edited 2006-12-09 23:36
Kubuntu is not much more popular than Mandriva actually (which is already a lot, of course): http://www.google.com/trends?q=mandriva%2C+fedora%2C+kubunt…
It’s the main Ubuntu version that seems to be extremely popular.
If you combine all the distro’s currently using ubuntu-standard and ubuntu-minimal (which makes the distro an ubuntu deriv) there is a LOT of testing for the actual system, which benefits ALL the derivs… Kubuntu, MEPIS, gNewSense, Edubuntu, Xubuntu, etc etc…
KDE, XFce etc etc might not get the same kind of attention, but the work of those people is very specific, so its easier for them to keep track of things thanks to the popularity of the overall system…
If Ubuntu used KDE as default, and if there were a gUbuntu version with Gnome, I’m sure the main version using KDE (Kubuntu) would be more popular.
If Ubuntu used KDE as default, and if there were a gUbuntu version with Gnome, I’m sure the main version using KDE (Kubuntu) would be more popular.
I really doubt it. I think Gnome offers new Linux users the simplicity necessary to make the initial transition to Linux. While KDE has very nice features, it isn’t as user friendly.
There are plenty of KDE distributions out there (i.e. Mepis, Linspire, Xandros, etc., etc., etc.) that are based on Debian, but none of them has enjoyed the success of the Gnome based Ubuntu.
I really doubt it. I think Gnome offers new Linux users the simplicity necessary to make the initial transition to Linux. While KDE has very nice features, it isn’t as user friendly.
I respectfully disagree. I *really* don’t want to start a Gnome/KDE flameware here, but in my personal experience Windows users tend to feel more comfortable with KDE, while Mac users tend to favor Gnome.
I’ve used both, and I like both, though these days I’m using KDE more. I do believe that the Ubuntu philosophy goes beyond DEs, though and that they’d still be as popular as they are today if they had opted for KDE instead of Gnome (though it is idle speculation, and in fact we’ll never know…)
I *really* don’t want to start a Gnome/KDE flameware here, but in my personal experience Windows users tend to feel more comfortable with KDE, while Mac users tend to favor Gnome.
I would say that’s right on the money.
The interesting thing though is that in KDE, you can get all KDE apps to put a menu at the top of the screen a la MacOS (instead of below the window title bar). I haven’t seen anything like that in GNOME.
Personally I would like one or other of the DE’s to at least give me the option of hiding the menus until I press a mouse button, a la NeXTStep and RiscOS.
Edited 2006-12-11 17:23
I’m not trying to start a flamewar either. Why do people think that every time a statement is made comparing the two?
I am making my statement based on my personal experiences with introducing Gnome vs. KDE to new users.
Most new users I’ve dealt with prefer Gnome. Many of them move on to KDE later, but initially, Gnome isn’t a frightening as KDE, I guess.
Personally, I like E-17 and can’t wait for it to be finished.
I agree that Gnome/KDE/FVWM/E/XfCE/… is not what makes Ubuntu popular though. I think it is the Debian base that does. Ubuntu successfully brought Debian to the masses.
I’m not trying to start a flamewar either. Why do people think that every time a statement is made comparing the two?
Personal experience… 😉
Most new users I’ve dealt with prefer Gnome. Many of them move on to KDE later, but initially, Gnome isn’t a frightening as KDE, I guess.
That’s possible…KDE does offer more options. I guess it really depends on the kind of user, whether they are the “curious” type or the “easily spooked” one, you know, the type of users who are afraid to break something by pulling down menus and pressing buttons… 🙂
Personally, I like E-17 and can’t wait for it to be finished.
Indeed. I think it got a good shot in the arm now that it’s the default PS3 desktop.
Exactly! KDE offers every customization you can think of, which is great. However, in my experience, it has proven to, as you put it, spook new users.
As I said, many of the users I have introduced to Linux have gone on to prefer KDE over Gnome, but at first Gnome seems to provide just the right level of security to help people transition over smoothly.
At least that’s my opinion.
Now, if you want me to start a flamewar, get me started on .NET and Java (not vs. each other, but both of them in one camp and better methods of software development in the other). I hate .NET and Java.
Well, I think that quite a few people start with ubuntu and then install and use the KDE desktop. Are they using ubuntu or kubuntu?
Kubuntu is more a subset of Ubuntu than a full-fledged variant. As a Kubuntu user, I still feel like I’m part of the Ubuntu user community.
I think a significant portion of the Ubuntu traffic may really be from Kubuntu users. Case in point: when I search the web for HowTos and such, I use Ubuntu as a keyword rather than Kubuntu, and I’m sure I’m not the only one to do that.
n other ways – a resounding NO! Oh come ON!! Grow up. This isn’t like a high school popularity contest. Uboingo is popular because for many it erases many of the issues that have kept people form using desktop Linux for so long. I am sick of people arguing that if they want to use linux they should take 4 or 5 IT courses, learn bash scripting, become masters of Vi or Vim, understand partitioning tables, refresh rates and video frequencies just to install a Distro.If its ease of use and installation bother you because it doesn’t make you feel 37334 enough use something else. Popularity is bad. Rubbish!!
I am sick of people arguing that if they want to use linux they should take 4 or 5 IT courses, learn bash scripting, become masters of Vi or Vim, understand partitioning tables, refresh rates and video frequencies just to install a Distro.If its ease of use and installation bother you because it doesn’t make you feel 37334 enough use something else.
The only people I ever hear saying “if people want to learn linux they should” do everything you said are people who claim linux users say that.
Exactly! +1
I have used Debian for a long time and have never done any of that, never been told I had to do any of that, and never told anyone else that had to do any of that….
Where are people getting this stuff from?
Where are people getting this stuff from?
The Dead “We have to paint Linux and its users in as bad a light as possible to delay Judgement Day and stop the brain drain away from Windows” Letter Office 😉
Edited 2006-12-10 20:45
n other ways – a resounding NO! Oh come ON!! Grow up. This isn’t like a high school popularity contest. Uboingo is popular because for many it erases many of the issues that have kept people form using desktop Linux for so long. I am sick of people arguing that if they want to use linux they should take 4 or 5 IT courses, learn bash scripting, become masters of Vi or Vim, understand partitioning tables, refresh rates and video frequencies just to install a Distro.If its ease of use and installation bother you because it doesn’t make you feel 37334 enough use something else. Popularity is bad. Rubbish!!
perfect example of my point – thanks
I wonder if you shouldn’t also add Kubuntu results to Ubuntu in the final count.
I can say that I’m not surprised. This isn’t about quality of distros or how free they are, but really about mindshare (which is more than just popularity, in fact). I think it’s clear to anyone that has followed the Linux scene over the last two years that Ubuntu has become the most-known Linux distro.
That’s a bit of bad news for RedHat, SuSE/Novell and al., though I don’t think it’s that big of a financial hit (for now, anyway). It’s actually good news for Debian, despite the uneasy relationship between the two distros. It has pushed the .deb packaging system at the forefront.
I myself left Mandriva behind completely some three months ago. It was the distro I learned Linux on, and it will always have its place in my heart, but I’ve now installed Kubuntu Edgy on both my laptop (Compaq Presario V2310) and my desktop (home-built Athlon 800MHz with GeForce 4 card and 1GB RAM).
>I wonder if you shouldn’t also add Kubuntu results to Ubuntu in the final count.
It’s not possible to add in the google page, they only allow up to 5 participants. But I did include it in my comment above.
>It’s not possible to add in the google page
Sure it is. You use a |. For example.
ubuntu|kubuntu, ubuntu, kubuntu
http://www.google.com/trends?q=ubuntu%7Ckubuntu%2C+ubuntu~*…
http://www.google.com/trends?q=mandriva%2C+fedora%2C+ubuntu…
However, if it weren’t for the quality, I don’t think you would have the mindshare.
In my opinion, Ubuntu brought Debian to the masses via a quality product that was easy to install and use.
This ease, combined with the quality of Debian and coupled with the fact that it is free (unlike Mepis, Linspire, Libranet, and Xandros at the time Ubuntu first came out), is what made this particular distribution rocket to the top.
Personally, there are a lot of things I like about Debian. Most of all, I like apt. Debian’s packaging system is superior to RPM in every way (if that weren’t true, the RPM systems wouldn’t be going to such great lengths to mimic apt), but Debian’s installer was too big of a hurdle for the average user.
Ubuntu changed that.
“Debian’s installer was too big of a hurdle for the average user. Ubuntu changed that.”
Actually, Ubuntu took the the new installer that Debian had developed and used it to gain a competitive edge over Debian. But now there’s not that much difference between Debian and Ubuntu, and the latest version of the Debian installer looks pretty cool:
http://www.thecodingstudio.com/opensource/linux/screenshots/index.p…
ubuntu have clearly worked out the best balance of these
No, they didn’t.
What made/makes Ubuntu so successful is that they have made Linux useable to the “Apathetical Users”, you know the ones who cannot be bothered to download and burn there own version.
Now they dont have to both, someone else will post them out for free.
That means they can use their time more productively by drinking another jumbo size diet-coke
Before I waddle over to the fridge, to get my Jumbo diet Coke and watch the Jerry Springer Show on TV. Ahh sorry I forgot I don’t have a TV, I couldn’t get the Jerry Springer Show without a satellite dish and there isn’t a Mac Donald’s in the country. Of course your right probably the main reason I use Ubuntu not Open Suse, or Fedora core are the free CDs which I can get sent to me. (I usually go for 10 and the give most away)
I’m sure it’s great where you are with cheep, probably Cap free band band, but here in the third world things are different. The dial up rate is 0.22 cents a minute and on that makes downloading an ISO very time consuming, expensive and inconvenient. OK I’ve got broad band (read twice as fast as a modem and costing 430 US$ a month) shared between another 25 PC users. I think there’ll be unhappy, if I use all the bandwidth downloading a Linux distro to play with (all though when Haiku comes out they’ll have to deal with it). Yeah Ubuntu has partly got where it is by giving disks away and I wish other distro’s would do the same.
Having said that, Ubuntu wouldn’t have stayed on my computer if it wasn’t Good. I find the community helpful and most things work without too much difficulty. Now I think I’ll waddle over to the fridge and have that Coke – No I’ll make it a beer as it hot and Summer here.
sending out free cds = money
the fact you know the cds can be sent to you = marketing
make no mistake, not every distro could afford to do this.
So we’ve been arguing for (nearly over) a decade abour MS vs. Linux and now you’re gonna start a flamewar over Linux vs. Linux? Come on, be happy that there’s at least one popular Linux distribution.
Nobody starts a flamewar, it’s simply an evaluation of the market. It’s always good to know.
BTW, both Gentoo and KUbuntu is close to Mandriva, but many people still think that Mandriva is called Mandrake, so when you sum up both Mandriva+Mandrake, it’s still a bit bigger than Gentoo or Kubuntu. But these three are all pretty close.
How do you get an article to -5 in 1 minute?
Talk back to the OSSnews police I guess.
NotParker, please check your email before replying again. I have emailed you in the email address you provided to our system.
NotParker, please check your email before replying again. I have emailed you in the email address you provided to our system.
I’ve only received one from David Adams about you know who.
I sent you one via hotmail a few minutes ago, on your b….@s…..com address.
I sent you one via hotmail a few minutes ago
Recieved and answered on your 2nd account/attempt.
Isn’t it funny that people are modding down NotParker’s OT posts, but not Eugenia’s.
Err that’s because Eugenia is staff and can’t be modded down.
Err that’s because Eugenia is staff and can’t be modded down.
Damn, and I thought this was a democratic forum.
Wow, Complete misinformation gets modded a 3?? Of Course Eugenia can be modded down… does it say OSN Staff under her post? NO!
I understand that she is indeed staff, but as it is now, she can be modded down.
“does it say OSN Staff under her post?”
Yes?
Either we’re looking at different versions of the site, or your just too lazy to look at the posts that I’m referring to.
http://fignew.com/pics/snapshot2.png
Well, http://brandify.com/temp/imnotlazy.jpg
Yeah, i’d be too lazy to look at posts. You have me all figured out..
I think it’s safe to say that you two are not using the same browser…
Personally, I don’t see the “OSNews Staff” on Firefox 2.0, but I see it with Konqueror. Weird.
Edit: Scratch that. I see it in Konqueror until I log in, then the behavior is the same as Firefox.
Edited 2006-12-10 23:07
Actually, DistroWatch statistics show that OpenSUSE has been catching up with Ubuntu for some time now, and OpenSUSE is clearly leading if you change the data span to “Last 7 days” and hit the refresh button. Both Google Trends and the DistroWatch page hits counter show which distros are currently in fashion but they don’t show if people actually install and use these fashionable distros.
DistroWatch has another statistics page, which suggests that most of its visitors still use MS Windows.
http://distrowatch.com/awstats/awstats.DistroWatch.com.osdetail.htm…
Oh, and those people who search for Mandrake in Google are probably seeking information about that comic strip, Mandrake the Magician. 😛
Ummmm, it says over 2006 as a whole! Not over the last 7 days because the newest version of Open Suse just came out. LOL!
And no one is even talking about Windows here. We all know Winblows is number 1. Dang. LOL!
Ummmm, it says over 2006 as a whole! Not over the last 7 days because the newest version of Open Suse just came out. LOL!
That’s why I wrote that “OpenSUSE has been catching up with Ubuntu for some time now.” If you change the data span you get the following results:
Last 12 months — Ubuntu 2646, OpenSUSE 1972
Last 6 months — Ubuntu 2469, OpenSUSE 2007
Last 3 months — Ubuntu 2550, OpenSUSE 2360
Last 30 days — Ubuntu 2293, OpenSUSE 2292
Last 7 days — Ubuntu 2467, OpenSUSE 3375
Do you notice any trend here? 😉
And no one is even talking about Windows here. We all know Winblows is number 1. Dang. LOL!
Still, it’s kind of surprising that only 33.1% of DistroWatch visitors use Linux while 57.6% of them use Windows. Clearly these are people who are interested in Linux but a large majority of them still prefer to use Windows for some reason.
Is it the same with Google Trends and the Page Hits Counter? They obviously show what people are interested in but does this interest correlate with actual usage? It’s these kind of problems that I was trying to point out.
That’s why I wrote that “OpenSUSE has been catching up with Ubuntu for some time now.” If you change the data span you get the following results:
Last 12 months — Ubuntu 2646, OpenSUSE 1972
Last 6 months — Ubuntu 2469, OpenSUSE 2007
Last 3 months — Ubuntu 2550, OpenSUSE 2360
Last 30 days — Ubuntu 2293, OpenSUSE 2292
Last 7 days — Ubuntu 2467, OpenSUSE 3375
Do you notice any trend here?
As the previous poster said, of course it looks like a trend – 10.2 was just released a few days ago and is thus on the front page of distrowatch. This causes it to get hundreds more hits per day at present than it typically does (exactly the same thing happens when there is a new release of any distro). These extra hits are incorporated into all the different time spans that distrowatch records, but obviously they will have the biggest effect on the the shorter time spans.
Additionally, over the last few weeks development releases have been appearing on the front page, which also sends the hit count up on the shorter time spans.
Thus, if anything, it’s surprising that SUSE’s figures are actually lower over the last month than the last 3 months. This is presumably fallout from the Novell-MS deal.
So, I agree with the title of your original post.
10.2 was just released a few days ago and is thus on the front page of distrowatch. This causes it to get hundreds more hits per day at present than it typically does (exactly the same thing happens when there is a new release of any distro). These extra hits are incorporated into all the different time spans that distrowatch records, but obviously they will have the biggest effect on the the shorter time spans.
Are you suggesting that only OpenSUSE gets advantage from its frequent releases but Ubuntu doesn’t get any advantage from its frequent releases at all? That’s clearly an invalid argument.
Ubuntu 6.10 was released in 2006/10/26 and the latest development release came out in 2006/12/06. And there were lots of development releases, betas and release candidates for Ubuntu 6.10. All those releases must have lifted Ubuntu’s page hits score on short time spans.
Still, the gap between Ubuntu and OpenSUSE has become smaller and smaller in the course of 2006. This long term trend is quite obvious and that’s why it’s no surprise that OpenSUSE is currently much more popular than Ubuntu.
However, I agree with you that OpenSUSE would be even more popular than it currently is if there wasn’t that unfortunate Novell-Microsoft deal. But also Ubuntu screwed things up when they had big problems with the Dapper to Edgy upgrades. And then Ubuntu alienated some long-term users by saying that they’re going to install binary graphics drivers automatically, without asking users first. And then Shuttleworth went poaching for OpenSUSE developers — that definitely showed poor taste and alienated some more users from Ubuntu.
Still, it’s kind of surprising that only 33.1% of DistroWatch visitors use Linux while 57.6% of them use Windows. Clearly these are people who are interested in Linux but a large majority of them still prefer to use Windows for some reason.
Or maybe that 57.6% are Windows users looking to try out/switch to Linux and go to distrowatch for info, and the 33.1% are Linux users who care abot the ranking and/or are looking for a new distro? Presumably most Linux users (like all users of products they’re satisfied with) don’t actually care what other products are out there unless they need to change, e.g. because of unhappiness with the MS/Novell/SuSE thing.
Makes sense to me, I did far more Distrowatch browsing as a Windows user than a Linux user.
“Still, it’s kind of surprising that only 33.1% of DistroWatch visitors use Linux while 57.6% of them use Windows.”
In my case, I rarely go to DistroWatch, but when I do, it’s during my lunch break at work, in which case, I’m running XP. At home, however, I run Ubuntu 100% of the time.
DistroWatch has another statistics page, which suggests that most of its visitors still use MS Windows.
And just the other day someone said no one surfs the web with Windows 2003 (as I do) and here it is at 1.1% on distrowatch.
Thanks. That one is really bookmarkable!
Edited 2006-12-10 01:34
While it may be true that there are a lot of people that surf distrowatch from a windows machine, that doesn’t always mean that those people don’t use linux. I suppose that many of those people surf from their day-time jobs, and that many of those have little influence on the IT budget of their organization.
Other people may look at distrowatch for a serverside solution in a mixed environment.
The prevalence of Windows Server 2K3 suggests that there are quite a few system administrators browsing distrowatch, no more, no less.
KDE, Gnome whatever. It’s still GNU/LINUX. Use what you like and don’t put down the other!
The thing that I like about Ubuntu over other free and most paid distros is that its not so uber Linux! Meaning it feels like one big happy family not a pack of Geeks. (Before you guys flame me I myself am a geek, my company is even called The Geek Patrol)
But I don’t get that feeling with Open Suse and Fedora. Maybe it’s just me. But I don’t see any other reason for it. Ubuntu runs no better then Suse or Fedora!
But I am starting a non profit this next year giving away Linux based computers to the poor, kids and churches and after testing etc and looking at the community etc we chose Ubuntu to go with. We can use Edubuntu for kids, K or Ubuntu for regular machines and Christian Ubuntu for helping churches etc. Perfect fit. (Even though Christian Ubuntu is not a part of Ubuntu)
I see more linux professionals using gentoo at home, they aren’t likely to be clicking on anything at distrowatch besides that terrific weekly newsletter, really brightens the Monday.
That is interesting
Gentoo gaining some popularity again.
I have to agree, i think gentoo has come out of the kiddie “look at me i compiled everything” stage to a stage where it is more like slackware (as far as the users). We just use our system because it works for us and ignore most of the political stuff (except what we view as very important).
I also must add that ubuntu has come a long way. To be honest, i used to hate it, now i only have a mild distaste for it, I have kubuntu installed on a partition and i try to use it periodically so i can get used to it and maybe one day like it (yes i will force myself to use an os that i don’t like to see if it grows on me.)
“I also must add that ubuntu has come a long way. To be honest, i used to hate it, now i only have a mild distaste for it, I have kubuntu installed on a partition and i try to use it periodically so i can get used to it and maybe one day like it (yes i will force myself to use an os that i don’t like to see if it grows on me.)”
I agree. The first Linux distro’s I ever used were Corel Linux(Debian based), and Yellow Dog(Red Hat based at the time, and now using the more community driven Fedora Core) in 2000. Then later I tried Red Hat and some more of its derivatives (Mandrake/Mandrive, Fedora Core, Ark, CentOS, etc.) and realized that I couldn’t stand them. The always seemed slow and buggy. But to be fair, I always install and try out new versions when they get released just in case I find one that grows on me. But no matter how good any of the Red Hat based distro’s ever get, I always seem to find my way back to Debian and it’s derivatives.
I guess I look at it like this: If you don’t at least try new distros when they come out, even if its based on a system you don’t like, then you will end up like a lot of other people out there that are way out of touch with reality and will be spewing things like “Yeah, well I don’t like Linux because it doesn’t have any hardware support”, even though the rest of us know just how wrong they are.
Edited 2006-12-11 15:45
I almost exclusively use FreeBSD so I guess it comes natural to look at linux condescendingly. But dang!, I just love ubuntu for my lappy. Hrmmm…sweetest taboo.
substitute suse for windows and look at the results
mandriva, redhat, ubuntu, debian, windows
disheartening, but still impressive for linux
I think it’s simple: The Ubuntu folks are making GNU/Linux work well on the desktop. My guess is that Mindshare (or popularity) is roughly proportional to how smooth and polished the desktop experience is.
Edited 2006-12-10 04:53
I really need to find out why Ubuntu is so successful. I have seen it fail on 3 out of the 3 installs I have witnessed.
“I really need to find out why Ubuntu is so successful.I have seen it fail on 3 out of the 3 installs I have witnessed.”
In your question lies the answer.
You couldn’t say it is 100% useless out of your 3/3 install witnessed. Perhaps those installs were affected by some bad luck?
Well hopefully that’s all it was.
You couldn’t say it is 100% useless out of your 3/3 install witnessed.
I didn’t say it was “useless” either. What I said was, I wonder why it’s so popular.
After all, say 10 people all try Ubuntu and Slackware. If 90% of them get 70% through the Slackware installation process, but 70% of them find Ubuntu can’t find their disks, that’s a higher success rate for the supposedly “hackerish” Slack than for the supposedly “user-friendly” Ubuntu.
I have found that 70% of the people that try to install Windows 98 can’t do it if they start with a new hard drive. Xp is better, if it is the only system on the drive.
Most of the people I know who try to install any OS for the first time don’t have the skills to do so.
Most of the computer users that I am around (an office of about 50 users) don’t know what a primary partition is much less an extended one.
I usually have to walk everyone through an install, be it Windows, Slackware, Freebsd, or Ubuntu.
And please don’t refer to Slackware as “hackerish”.
My install is a fine-tuned well-oiled masterpiece of Individuality.
And please don’t refer to Slackware as “hackerish”.
My install is a fine-tuned well-oiled masterpiece of Individuality.
Heh. I was of course using “hacker” in the proper sense, but fair enough 🙂
Mandriva + Mandrake are together below Gentoo’s search volume.
New headline:
Linux twice as popular as Windows XP and Ubuntu is twice as popular as Windows Vista.
Just look at the Google stats http://www.google.com/trends?q=%22windows+xp%22%2C+~*~@…
(Actually the latter may be really true right now, if only include the official RTM release.)
All you are comparing is popularity of the keywords. Which doesn’t distinguish between “xxx is great”, “where do I buy xxx”, “how do I get xxx to work”, “xxx is junk”.
Why would you look for “xxx is junk”?
Oh well, too bad it seems so hard to get reliable figures about Linux usage. I guess it’s the nature of the beast, at least for now.
One thing these figures don’t show is “churn”, the rate of change in a userbase as users come and go. For example, it might be that Ubuntu is a very popular starter distro for new users and those just testing out Linux, but a lot of those users soon either go back to Windows, move on to other distros or keep Ubuntu but really still use Windows as their primary desktop. It might be that other distros – Fedora, SuSE, Debian, etc – have a more stable base of loyal long-term users for whom the distro is their primary OS.
I’m not saying this is remotely the case with Ubuntu, incidentally. I’m just using it as an example. But this kind of thing is quite important when trying to assess the real level of support for something. For mobile phone outfits it’s crucial, for instance, since it helps them put a value on each user and therefore their business.
I agree that Ubuntu is the King of Distros right now in the terms Eugenia outlines – I’m just wondering out loud how solid the foundations are (of any distro).
I agree that Ubuntu is the King of Distros right now in the terms Eugenia outlines – I’m just wondering out loud how solid the foundations are (of any distro).
Yes you could argue about the interpretation.Though Ubuntu causes a lot of hits.
it might be that Ubuntu is a very popular starter distro for new users and those just testing out Linux, but a lot of those users soon either go back to Windows,
Perhaps some will eventually return to windows for whatever reason.But you could say Ubuntu has caused them to go out and try an alternativ OS.Cann’t be out of sheer curiosity alone.
Well, I have never been aware of any trend, but I switched from a part-time Mandriva 10 (and 10.1) in 2005 to a part-time Suse 10 early 2006 to a full-time Ubuntu from June 2006 on.
The main two things that hooked me on Ubuntu are its easiness of use (not to forget suspend on a laptop) and its very friendly and helpful community.
Clearly for me, Ubuntu has overtaken XP now, even if I recognize that Linux needs a rather steep learning curve that makes it still unfriendly for many people.
Now, if I consider this overall progress and the new, bloated and expensive Vista, I give Ubuntu a very bright future.
What’s with posting this three times?
Well, I have never been aware of any trend, but I switched from a part-time Mandriva 10 (and 10.1) in 2005 to a part-time Suse 10 early 2006 to a full-time Ubuntu from June 2006 on.
The main two things that hooked me on Ubuntu are its easiness of use (not to forget suspend on a laptop) and its very friendly and helpful community.
Clearly for me, Ubuntu has overtaken XP now, even if I recognize that Linux needs a rather steep learning curve that makes it still unfriendly for many people.
Now, if I consider this overall progress and the new, bloated and expensive Vista, I give Ubuntu a very bright future.
Well, I have never been aware of any trend, but I switched from a part-time Mandriva 10 (and 10.1) in 2005 to a part-time Suse 10 early 2006 to a full-time Ubuntu from June 2006 on.
The main two things that hooked me on Ubuntu are its easiness of use (not to forget suspend on a laptop) and its very friendly and helpful community.
Clearly for me, Ubuntu has overtaken XP now, even if I recognize that Linux needs a rather steep learning curve that makes it still unfriendly for many people.
Now, if I consider this overall progress and the new, bloated and expensive Vista, I give Ubuntu a very bright future.
I really want to use Tracker/Beagle replacement ( http://freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/Tracker ). I’m going to install Ubuntu again after that (+ hopefully beryl/compiz..)
Edited 2006-12-10 10:25
i have been impressed with the way that SUSE has relentlessly climed the distrowatch charts in the last 18 months:
Oct 8 2005 – 12 month
Rank Distribution H.P.D*
1 Ubuntu 2188<
2 Mandriva 1632<
3 SUSE 1319<
4 Fedora 1317=
5 MEPIS 1185<
Oct 10 2005 – 1 month
Rank Distribution H.P.D*
1 Ubuntu 2841>
2 Mandriva 2122<
3 SUSE 2109<
4 Fedora 1004>
Nov 5 2005 – 3 month
Rank Distribution H.P.D*
1 Ubuntu 2831<
2 SUSE 1945<
3 Mandriva 1940<
4 Fedora 1001<
5 MEPIS 974>
Apr 9 2006 – 12 month
1 Ubuntu 2709<
2 SUSE 1613>
3 Mandriva 1583<
4 Fedora 1307=
5 MEPIS 1031<
May 18 2006 – 7 day
1 SUSE 3645>
2 Ubuntu 2517>
3 Fedora 1195<
4 MEPIS 1018<
5 Mandriva 1011>
Dec 10th 2006 – 12 month
1 Ubuntu 2646<
2 openSUSE 1972>
3 Fedora 1424=
4 Mandriva 1044<
5 MEPIS 1033=
From what I hear, Ubuntu’s strength is in it’s user friendliness. This isn’t true. You still need to manually edit .conf files, etc..
There are some distributions where you never have to touch command line like SuSE and Mandriva. These distributions are a lot more noob friendly than Ubuntu. They have administrative tools that help you modify system settings. Ubuntu barely has gnome-system-tools. Then why is Ubuntu more friendly? It’s all the advertising on the internet in forums and news sites. Timing is also a big factor. Ubuntu came out at a time where many people where really considering switching over to Linux. Even fedora is way more user friendly than Ubuntu.
From what I hear, Ubuntu’s strength is in it’s user friendliness. This isn’t true.
Yes and No,Ubuntu is userfriendly but perhaps not as userfriendly as let’s say SuSE or Mandriva.
Personally what intriques me is debian as base with apt-get package manager and 20000+ of apps .After all a PC that’s standing in the corner doing nothing is useless.
Installing apps with apt-get is swift and painless.With yet questions being asked during install.For example wether you use ntfs or PAL and wether you live in Europe and thus don’t need an USA channellist when installing for you TV card.
Ubuntu is debian with better dependency checking and a arguable nice look with more uptodate stuff.
And no matter what project keeps you busy at the moment,chances are significant someone has allready paved the right way to follow for you.There’s a tremendoes amount of documentation,wikis,guides,howtos geared towards Ubuntu online.
Ubuntu isn’t per se the best in class with any given subject but in my opinion is the easiest accessible best allround linux distro for the average end-user.
After Ubuntu you only have the BSD’s and Gentoo if you want to dig deeper instead of just working with what’s common usage.
Edited 2006-12-10 11:57
Ubuntu is debian with better dependency checking and a arguable nice look with more uptodate stuff.
No. Ubuntu is Debian with the exact same dependency checking, brown look, and with some stuff more up-to-date, some less up-to-date (when compared to Debian Testing & Unstable). Also, Ubuntu supports less architectures and much fewer packages — Ubuntu’s “universe” lacks security support.
After Ubuntu you only have the BSD’s and Gentoo if you want to dig deeper instead of just working with what’s common usage.
Er, and Slackware. And arguably “real” Debian.
Yes those too.
Actually, for me, the easiest distro to use has always been ArchLinux 🙂
“Even fedora is way more user friendly than Ubuntu.”
“User friendly” is a subjective term. What is User-friendly to some could be user-crappy to others.
I find Slackware to be user friendly. Because I LIKE to edit my own config files. I don’t care to have someone else’s idea of how to do it override my own personal preferences.
I find Yast (Yast2) to be one of the most irritating things around. To others it is the greatest thing since sliced bread.
Ubuntu is brand new and does command a large mind-share of the Distrowatch traffic. If you will watch the hit counters you will see that as any distro begins doing something new or has some other news or controversy their traffic increases.
As far as Ubuntu and Kubuntu are concerned, they are basically the same distro with different DE’s.
I tried it again yesterday the 6.10 desktop version and it still barfs at my ati radeon x800 videocard.
In the past I spend some time to figure it out and get it working but nowadays I just can’t be bothered anymore.
It would be nice if all the waisted effort that is spend on the different linux distros was brought together and focussed to get some underlaying faults corrected, like getting rid of the nineteenseventies xwindows display model…
Your criticism misses the mark, I’m afraid. The problem is not X Windows and its “display model”…the problem in your case is the actual graphics driver. The open-source ATI drivers are not very good, and ATI has yet to open-source its proprietary drivers. This means that these cannot easily be distributed along with the LiveCDs for installation.
Fortunately, I belive that as of Feisty Fawn there will be a way to install and configure ATI and NVIDIA cards right from the original setup. I know it’s being discussed, anyway.
In any case, this has nothing to do with the X Windows display model, which is an excellent model BTW.
“Your criticism misses the mark, I’m afraid. The problem is not X Windows and its “display model”…the problem in your case is the actual graphics driver. The open-source ATI drivers are not very good, and ATI has yet to open-source its proprietary drivers. This means that these cannot easily be distributed along with the LiveCDs for installation. ”
That’s why it will fail to get Windows users. Sorry. First impressions count and people shouldn’t have to look for good drivers.
That’s why it will fail to get Windows users. Sorry. First impressions count and people shouldn’t have to look for good drivers.
Uh…you *do* realize that Nvidia/Ati drivers are *not* included when you install Windows either, right? If you don’t happen to have the CD-ROM for your card’s driver (which happen if you are reinstalling on a PC you’ve had a while, and misplaced the CDs), then you also have to go look for them on the Web.
In any case, your theory is wrong. Linux *does* get Windows users…what do you think I was (and in fact, still am) before starting to use Linux?
When you install a LiveCD, it still works, just without 3D acceleration out-of-the-box. This will be the *exact* same situation if you install Windows on a blank machine (except that, by default, Windows will put you in 640×480 and 16 colors…at least the Ubuntu LiveCD has more sensible defaults).
In any case, the point is moot as more and more LiveCD come with proprietary drivers (that are free to redistribute). Ubuntu Feisty Fawn will do it, and so does Sabayon Linux IIRC. Meanwhile, SuSE comes with proprietary drivers that are installed during initial setup.
Things are improving, as you can see. That’s the strenght of Linux: it constantly adapts and improves.
“In any case, the point is moot as more and more LiveCD come with proprietary drivers (that are free to redistribute). Ubuntu Feisty Fawn will do it, and so does Sabayon Linux IIRC. Meanwhile, SuSE comes with proprietary drivers that are installed during initial setup. ”
That’s what i wanted to hear
And i did download suse and will try it out
Uh…you *do* realize that Nvidia/Ati drivers are *not* included when you install Windows either, right?
Drivers for my ATI video card were installed.
I installed Vista RC2 on my PC with an ATI Radeon 1300 Pro.
The OS install installed ATI Driver 7.14.10.830 dated Aug 21 2006.
I wasn’t talking about Vista. I was talking about WinXP.
Novell installs NVIDIA/ATI drivers automatically. Ubuntu will do so in the very next release. Soon this point will be moot and the anti-Linux trolls will have one less thing to whine about.
wasn’t talking about Vista. I was talking about WinXP.
Are you talking the vanilla XP CD from 2001?
Or are you talking about the most current XP SP2 disc?
Windows 2003 R2 installs drivers for ATI/Nvidia cards.
I’ve never had Windows not install a video driver. It may not be optimized. It may prompt to install a newer one from the web. But you usually get a driver.
I also get drivers updates on Windows Update too.
Soon this point will be moot and the anti-Linux trolls will have one less thing to whine about.
Why do you have to call people names who point out facts you don’t like?
Edited 2006-12-12 04:20
I’ve never had Windows not install a video driver. It may not be optimized. It may prompt to install a newer one from the web. But you usually get a driver.
So do you when you run a Linux LiveCD. You won’t get the latest and greatest, you won’t get 3D accel, but you’ll get a driver, and you’ll be able to go get a better one from the Internet.
As I have said before, soon it’ll be one less then the anti-Linux trolls will have to whine about.
Why do you have to call people names who point out facts you don’t like?
I didn’t call anyone a name. A troll is someone who trolls. People who troll are therefore trolls.
Here, educate yourself:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_%28Internet%29
Now, why do *you* call people cultists or stalkers *instead* of replying to their arguments in a logical, rational manner? Oh, right, you’re a troll. I had almost forgot.
So do you when you run a Linux LiveCD.
But not when you install Linux on the hard drive.
Got it.
Windows works better.
But not when you install Linux on the hard drive.
No, when you install to the hard drive as well.
Good ol’ NotParker, never passes a chance to spread FUD, does he?
Go to bed, troll.
“But not when you install Linux on the hard drive. ”
No, when you install to the hard drive as well.
But not Ubuntu. As you said.
I don’t why you have to get abusive. All I did was correct you assertion that ATI/Nvidia drivers are not installed with Windows.
But not Ubuntu. As you said.
Yes, Ubuntu as well. Drivers are installed, just not the latest proprietary drivers.
I don’t why you have to get abusive.
I’m not even close to reaching the level of abuse you’ve demonstrated yourself. Do you want me to repost that little compilation someone made recently of your insulting posts?
All I did was correct you assertion that ATI/Nvidia drivers are not installed with Windows.
Some drivers are installed, but – like for Linux – they’re not the latest drivers and they’re incomplete. For example, the drivers isntalled with XP SP2 don’t have OpenGL support.
So, my point still stands: you still need to download and install drivers after installing XP SP2 if you want complete, up-to-date functionality. It’s exactly the same thing as with Linux.
Edited 2006-12-12 15:12
Some drivers are installed,[i]
Its good for you to admit you were wrong.
but – like for Linux – they’re not the latest drivers and they’re incomplete.[/i]
I’ve never had a problem getting WIndows to install drivers for my video cards on Windows XP and I’ve done a lot of installs.
On Vista RC2 I got my driver. Condsidering it was a beta, Microsoft did really well. They plan to have thousands more drivers for consumer RTM.
Its good for you to admit you were wrong.
Except I wasn’t. *Some* drivers are installed, otherwise they’re wouldn’t be an image.
The actual up-to-date NVIDIA/ATI drivers are not installed. Only minimal drivers are, just as in Linux, which was *the point I was making*.
Since you are not challenging this point, I assumen that you’re conceding defeat.
The actual up-to-date NVIDIA/ATI drivers are not installed.
Actual ATI drivers were installed on Vista RC2.
Actual ATI/Nvidia drivers are installed on Windows XP.
Thanks for conceding by changing the terms of reference.
Actual ATI drivers were installed on Vista RC2.
I wasn’t talking about Vista. It’s not on the shelves yet. End of discussion.
Actual ATI/Nvidia drivers are installed on Windows XP.
Not the up-to-date, complete ones. Not with OpenGL support.
Gotta get back to work. Unlike you, I don’t get paid to spread MS propaganda on web sites.
That’s why it will fail to get Windows users. Sorry. First impressions count and people shouldn’t have to look for good drivers.
That’s why Windows will fail to get Linux users. Sorry. First impressions count and people shouldn’t have to load drivers from CD after CD.
Yes, I know there are more Windows installations than Linux. If there were more Linux installations than Windows, the latter wouldn’t even get a look in. In fact all other things being equal, Win 9x might well have been enough to bury Windows in a mound of bad publicity and attacks of hysterical laughter.
“First impressions count and people shouldn’t have to look for good drivers.”
Yes, because Windows XP comes with the latest nVidia/ATI drivers….or not.
It would be nice if all the waisted effort that is spend on the different linux distros was brought together and focussed to get some underlaying faults corrected, like getting rid of the nineteenseventies xwindows display model…
If all the “wasted effort” that is spent on the different distros were “brought together and focussed to get some underlying faults corrected…”, Linux would grind to a halt, not least because of arguments over which Window manager to include, which scheduling algorithm to use, whether to accept binary blobs, etc. Centralised models only work when there is a Boss to say “We’re doing this; we’re NOT doing that”. Decentralised models like Linux work because of consensus.
Correcting “underlying faults” in the X Window System (please don’t say “X windows”) is the job of the X.org team; correcting underlying faults in driver support is the job of the kernel team, etc. And the fact that Linux can run w/o the X Window System (which is what I presume you mean by “seventies display model”) is largely responsible for its stability as a desktop.
I tried Ubuntu, it wouldn’t boot on my laptop (Toshiba Satelite M65 – S809) and it failed to start Bluetooth support on start up so I could use my mouse and keyboard on my Desktop (MS Bluetooth Desktop, yeah yeah evil empire, but I like the keyboard).
Funny thing is when the machine starts both the mouse and keyboard work like a standard USB mouse/keyboard until the CD goes into its detect/start up phase. So DOS/Bios recognize my keyboard as a USB keyboard and work, but Ubuntu refuses to look at it.
I used to try pretty much every distribution as it came out just to see the improvements but lately I just don’t have the time anymore. Ubuntu is probably going in the right direction to have so many people on board. A unified experience across the board would be a great thing, especially if they combined all the system settings into one dialog so I didn’t have to go crawling the “/etc/” and “.conf” files.
That being said I have a file Server that I installed Xandros on it 2 years ago and its still running like a champ. SO I’m not a linux hater before any flame wars start, I just haven’t found a version of linux that I could use as my primary desktop that didn’t require excessive configuration and days of reading errata on how to get newer hardware to work.
I make no claims to being a linux guru or a programming god, but I am competant user / system builder and I have installed a lot of OS’s, from OS/2 Warp, IRIX, Windows 3.1 -> XP MCE, and about a dozen flavors of linux configured to be Myth TV boxes to Firewalls.
I’d just like a flavor of Linux that works with relatively new hardware without hassle. I don’t care about open or closed drivers. Make it work, with no manual editing conf files (Driver downloads are acceptable as long as the system boots with a default mode capable of at least connecting to the net and 256color graphics). Do this and I will buy that distro.
Funny thing is when the machine starts both the mouse and keyboard work like a standard USB mouse/keyboard until the CD goes into its detect/start up phase. So DOS/Bios recognize my keyboard as a USB keyboard and work, but Ubuntu refuses to look at it.
You should file a bug report, that’s the best way to help solve the problem for future releases (if you’re not a programmer).
You’ll Have to fiddle with some BIOS settings to get that to work.
Ubuntu is really a cool distro!
I love it…
Ubuntu really is a good thing. I come from a long line of distributions (redhat, corel (back in the day), debian, slackware, gentoo..) and I think I have finally found the perfect distro (for me)..Ubuntu. I think its great for desktops and servers as well (got 2 blades at home running dapper without any problems since i’ve installed them).
I think the success of Ubunutu lies in debian package management, ease of use, and things just work!
> Still, it’s kind of surprising that only 33.1% of DistroWatch visitors use Linux while 57.6% of them use Windows.
i use exclusively linux/gentoo for last 3 or 4yrs.. i can’t remember when i was at DistroWatch at all.. it is of no surprise ppl who use windows and are interested in moving to other OS would go and check out DistroWatch..
I usually send windows users to distrowatch to check out linux, someone who is already a linux user I send them a link to the download of XYZlinux and tell them to give it a whirl. Also people hit wikipedia a lot when trying to find out about linux and wikipedia often links to distrowatch.
You can look and see where the referrer hits come from on distrowatch. -notice wikipedia-
http://distrowatch.com/awstats/awstats.DistroWatch.com.refererpages…
I guess the Ubuntu people visit distrowatch just to make sure Ubuntu stays on top. Or maybe it is a cron job!
Web Sites like this reinforce these statistics to me personally:
http://system76.com/index.php
I remember this other distro that was popular for making linux easy to use. Mandrake. and where did that go? Ubuntu has all the rage now but so did Mandrake in its day. Where’s the difference?
twenex, the gnu/linux approach is great for technology, great for geeks, but bad for implementation and usability. Another distro that tries to do the same thing but ‘better’ is not good for users and not good for developers
Mandrake. and where did that go? Ubuntu has all the rage now but so did Mandrake in its day. Where’s the difference?
Exactly. Mandrake had a lot of problems (financial, bad press, buggy software, etc.) but now other distros have overtaken it, because it’s a near-as-dammit swap-in swap-out story with other distros.
twenex, the gnu/linux approach is great for technology, great for geeks, but bad for implementation and usability. Another distro that tries to do the same thing but ‘better’ is not good for users and not good for developers
Sorry, I disagree. In its efforts to become “easier and easier” and “protect” copyright owners from theft and users from God knows what, Windows is becoming completely inflexible and therefore the complete antithesis of a computer. Not only that, but (in a wonderful example of the inconsistency Linux is supposed to propagate) a friend reports that Windows Vista has no less than 7 ways to shutdown include hibernate and suspend – do we need more than three? or even one? And let’s not even mention the fact that in Windows if you want to shutdown you press “Start”.
I just don’t get the “more than one distro is bad” argument either. Is having more than one toaster manufacturer bad?
Usability is on par with Windows – if you’re used to Linux then Windows is just as awkward to you, as it would be the other way round. Same with Macs.
There are problems with Linux, but outside of driver installation and software availability, I haven’t seen one cogent argument that would lead me to prefer Windows over Linux. Sure OpenOffice is clunky, but have you tried Word or WordPerfect lately? (Though I do love the Reveal Codes feature in WP.) OO.org 2.0 is also a lot less clunky than 1.x.
First impressions count and people shouldn’t have to look for good drivers.
that is one horrible thing about windows isn’t it
Or maybe that 57.6% are Windows users looking to try out/switch to Linux and go to distrowatch for info, and the 33.1% are Linux users who care abot the ranking and/or are looking for a new distro? Presumably most Linux users (like all users of products they’re satisfied with) don’t actually care what other products are out there unless they need to change, e.g. because of unhappiness with the MS/Novell/SuSE thing.
i am sure there is truth in the above.
i spend a fair bit of time on distowatch, much of it from my home windows gaming box.
i also visit, less frequently, from my SUSE work laptop.
Mindshare as in ‘users’ or mindshare as in ‘contributions to the development’ and with that, how can one really counter the ‘number of users’ when wouldn’t it be best to compare contributions and what they’ve contributed vs the number that have contributed.
Sure, Ubuntu is a great distribution, but I do have my missgivings given its quick rise; will we end up with a decrease in quality like we’ve seen with SuSE, just as what happened with Red Hat with the 2.96 fiasco and subsequent releases?
With that, they also need to better engage with the end user base and allowing those of us with little or no programming experinece (or wish to programme like me) to be able to contribute by way of design, marketing and so forth – it seems to me that many linux distributions are very closed shops when it comes to encouraging end users to ‘muck in’ and contribute.
Neither did they mail you a free installation cd with their operating system on it.
30 day rankings:
SUSE hits #1
Sabayon hits #10
Rank Distribution H.P.D*
1 openSUSE 2307>
2 Ubuntu 2290<
3 Fedora 1408<
4 Mint 1117>
5 MEPIS 1015<
6 Debian 979<
7 PCLinuxOS 895<
8 Mandriva 889<
9 Damn Small 861<
10 Sabayon 626>
Yeah, but haven’t you heard that it’s no longer politically correct to like SUSE? Bruce Perens says so; therefore, I have no other choice but to hate SUSE… /sarcasm
Ooooooh, look! A pro-SUSE poster! He must be modded down!!!!
Hey, I like SuSE, and I still think your an off-topic, abusive troll. What gives?
Archisteel, Notparker, knock it off. If you want to shout one-to-one, go to IM.