This is a status update for the Debian GNU/Hurd port. While the port was limping along for a couple of years, it has picked up speed again. The current state is still far from being on par with Debian’s established Linux ports, but it is mostly up to date and reasonably usable.
seems like the hurd is resurrecting from the state of death
that is a good news. i bet that when there will be an easy way to install it it will have a boost in dev. popularity !
There are installation ISOs, the crosshurd method (which is pretty much like debootstrap, when you are already running Debian GNU/Linux) and the Live-CD. I’d say it’s about as easy to install as Debian potato. Considered that the target user base is pretty much developers still, it should be easy enough to install.
Of course, whether your hardware is (partly or at all) supported by GNU Mach is another matter, but you can just try it out and move on if it does not work out.
Michael
And with the L4/Hurd project on the way, by the time the hurd starts to get popularity, the kernel change will be a very good adition. Hurd shares many ideas with plan9, I like that. I have always thought that the ide of letting servers (or user programs) expand the filesystem view is what unix shoud follow. No need for virtual filesystem librarys for every program (ala gnome). Put the functionality where it belongs so that it can be used transparently by all programs, all or new ones. So that the functionality is available everywhere, cli, gui, network, etc.
This article caught me quite off-guard.
Having just read about ‘discussion’ of changing the core of GNU/Hurd from Mach to the high-performance (and I believe much better designed) L4, and then I see something about GNU/Hurd being ‘ported’. But actually, software is being ported ontop of it.
Won’t this make the transition from Mach to L4 more difficult/create rendundant effort?
It shouldn’t make it more difficult given that the software is being ported to the GNU/Hurd system, not to the Mach kernel. At most it may require a recompile of ported softwares, but even that shouldn’t be needed for most applications.
I have tried GNU/Hurd 3/4 times with less and less success as time go forward due to hardware troubles. In fact, it no longer ran on my last two purchased x86 boxes.
I have been waiting for years to have a list of supported hardware configuration (does it support network in qemu or VMWare for example ?) [Or browsing the source code by http in order to know the supported hardware]. So, if someone spread such an piece of information, it will be really news and helpful ! I do not waste my time, bandwidth and CDs on GUN/Hurd anymore.
Take this as a rant if you want but my perception is that GNU/Hurd is not able to run on any new x86 hardware from last two (three ?) years.
First off, it’s GNU Mach which does the hardware, not the Hurd, so blaming the Hurd is incorrect.
Seconds, for some reason, I never had issues to get it to boot at least, though sometimes the network controller is not supported. I currently run the Hurd on my ThinkPad R51 (a Pentium M 1.5GHz), my parent’s P4-1.8 GHz, my old Compaq Armada 1500c (mobile Celeron 400) and a Athlon 800 system. But sure, it might not work for you, that’s life.
You can run the Hurd on qemu as well, I never did so myself, though. See http://hurd.gnufans.org/bin/view/Distrib/HurdOnQEMU for further information.
Michael
Note that he did not blame the Hurd for the lack of hardware support.
He blamed the GNU/hurd…
I tried to install it, but after formatting partition, installation of base systems (baseGNU.tgz) and rebooting, it just stopped after loading kernel and printed some weird messages (explanation of which I couldn’t find on google). I supplied all recomended parameters to my GRUB configuration, but no effect. Also, I haven’t been offered selection of packages, just the base install option. Hurd K5 installed OK. I tried K9 DVD (which appears to be broken) and K9 CD1. No luck. Also K8 couldn’t recognize my partitions correctly. Anybody had similar problems and solved them ?
You should address your problems along with the exact error message to debian-hurd@lists.debian.org, OSNews is not a bug reporting facility.
Michael
There are installation ISOs, the crosshurd method (which is pretty much like debootstrap, when you are already running Debian GNU/Linux) and the Live-CD. I’d say it’s about as easy to install as Debian potato.
Debian GNU/HURD doesn’t use the new D-I (Debian-Installer)?
seems like the hurd is resurrecting from the state of death
GPL’d software never dies, it just goes into suspended animation (unless everyone loses the backups, then I suppose it’s gone forever).
And with the L4/Hurd project on the way, [snip]
*That’s* what I’m waiting for: Debian GNU/L4 + the D-I. Well, either that, or Syllable.
I’m not trying to be abrasive, but why do people bother with Hurd?
Obviously I can’t talk for anyone else, but I would be using Hurd instead of Linux, if they had both developed to the same level.
Hurd is one of only a few microkernels for general purpose use (well, intended for) and with the excess of CPU power most people have these days, it would be nice to finally have the advantages a microkernel after so many years of hearing about them.
Then again I am also the sort of person who would happily take a step backwards in speed terms, just to be rid of x86…
Why do people bother with linux, windows, mac? Horses for courses.
Is there a graphical web browser which works under the Hurd yet? That seemed like a major missing piece last time I booted the Hurd.
Oleksandr Shneydr reported succes porting KDE, including a functional Konqueror; no Debian packages are available for general consumption yet, though. Mozilla, Firefox and Epiphany compile, but there are run-time issues preventing them from being used as a browser for the time being.
Michael
Excellent. Nice to see some progress being made. Might as well post a link to the screen shot…
http://lists.debian.org/debian-hurd/2005/06/msg00056.html
…I wonder how soon this could be incorporated into the LiveCD that’s been floating around. Now if we could only have subscriber-only mailing lists to eliminate all of the spam, I might decide to subscribe to some of them again.
> Then again I am also the sort of person who would happily take a step
> backwards in speed terms, just to be rid of x86…
http://www.terrasoftsolutions.com/products/genesi/
I dont care anymore about Hurd. But I’m happy about its existence and i hope someday it will gain popularity and userbase.
But if we are waiting for a microkernel that WORKS, and works WELL, RIGHT NOW… then simply try another microkernel OS, Haiku…
It because of Haiku that I dont care anymore about Hurd: Haiku has stolen all my attention!
But if we are waiting for a microkernel that WORKS, and works WELL, RIGHT NOW… then simply try another microkernel OS, Haiku…
But I don’t think that Haiku is a microkernel. At least the faq claims…
“Its design is fairly similar to the (modular monolithic) design of the BeOS kernel so it won’t require great effort to adapt it.”
http://haiku-os.org/learn.php?mode=faq_print&id=24
It’s nice to see the Hurd gaining forward momentum. I’m very interested to see how will stack up against Plan 9/Inferno.
The proprietary Linux kernel won, get over it. Microkernels are nice in academia but have very little, if any, real use in the enterprise.
Microkernels are nice in academia but have very little, if any, real use in the enterprise.
QNX Neutrino is another Joke ?
http://www.qnx.com/news/pr_1446_3.html
The proprietary Linux kernel won, get over it. Microkernels are nice in academia but have very little, if any, real use in the enterprise.
You mean the proprietary Linux kernel that is licensed under the same license as the free GNU/Hurd?
Proprietary – Something proprietary is something exclusively owned by someone, often with connotations that it is exclusive and cannot be used by other parties without negotiations. It may specifically mean that something is covered by one or more patents, as in proprietary technology. It can also mean that the copyright is used in a way that restricts the users’ freedoms. (Source : Google.com)
Since Linux is not exclusively owned by someone and contains no restrictions that restrict others use of it without negotiations, it can hardly be called proprietary.
Unless of course you are talking about certain device drivers. My machine is running with one proprietary driver right now (Nvidia drivers) and if I really wanted I could use the nv drivers and have a completely free kernel.
I’ve been very interested in keeping up with GNU/Hurd, and am glad to see this story posted on OSnews.com.
Looking through the list of installed packages on the live-CD (http://people.debian.org/~neal/hurd-live-cd/packages), it shows perl is present, and the python programming language (www.python.org) is missing. Hey pythonistas, let’s see python ported to the Hurd!! (OK, I know, there’s probably other more important ports and work to be done with regards to Hurd development. You can’t blame a guy for cheering on his team, can you?)
python is there, since the late 90s, actually, I believe. The LiveCD is just very minimal and apparently nobody requested python yet. I will try to remember forwarding this to its maintainer when I see him next (he’s been offline for a couple of days now).
Michael
whats the advantages of going hurd? don’t you loose all the linux drivers?
GNU/HURD uses Linux 2.4 kernel drivers
Some people’s attitudes here seem to be “This isn’t of interest to me, therefore it shouldn’t be posted” rather than “This isn’t of interest to me, I’ll skip right over…” Hurd isn’t viable for the Desktop yet? That’s all you’re interested in? Read another article.
It is just avoinding the question, and plain nonsense to say:
> Why do people bother with linux, windows, mac? Horses for courses.
or
> Hurd isn’t viable for the Desktop yet? That’s all you’re interested in? Read another article.
They try hard to not understand the point at all costs. The point is, will GNU/Hurd ever become anything? Who is afraid of asking this question? Who is sentimental enough to think that asking this question will somehow seal the doom of Hurd? Maybe the coders will say, after reading this: “ok, you’re right, we will never get anywhere, let’s just forget the whole thing.”
Think about it yourself. What is the future of Hurd now? Be the also-ran OS of all linux-haters who are also GNU-lovers? What does it promise more than linux does, and when will it deliver? Will it accept 3rd party binary drivers? Is it somehow easier to use? Will it conquer the world (that is, desktop)?
I have FreeBSD, Solaris, linux, and soon hopefully HaikuOS. I also tried Syllable. The movement has its eggs in a thousand baskets, and it still makes no difference.