OSNews

BeGeistert 012 videos (226MB)

http://www.kaldience.com/misc/zeta/BG_Unleashed.avi
http://www.micronuke.net/BG_Unleashed.aviw

notice than it's mostly in german

I have no reason to believe anything of Zeta is illegal or that they are missing anything. In fact I have several very good reasons to believe the complete opposite.

Although I know that you are trying to put an end to the discussion you are doing the opposite. Your comment is nothing but a rumour and you obviously have no proof. So please don't put more wood into the fire.

I agree that the childish acting by some people is unacceptable. I have bashed YT myself a lot, but it's always on a not so serious level. Though I am a bit bitter by the fact that got the SVG-tracker when it was agreed that the community would be able to buy it if we had the cash(and we had). I know it's not YTs fault (afaik).
I think that the biggest problem with YT is that they have such lousy PR. They need to be more direct, open and honest. Few people will trust a company acting the way they do now.

Squeezer. This is a very clever app for handling archives (Zip etc) written by a Italian guy called Massimiliano Origgi.

To be honest, I haven't tried the app for a few months. However, the last time I tried it it still had the same issues to DND files and handleling large zipfiles. It seems like the basic funtionality should be focused on instead of adding cool features. Other than that, It's a nice app.

OpenBeOS Media Kit. Marcus Overhagen gave us an update of the Media kit he's been working on. Things have obviously moved along
here as we were shown movies being played with different codecs including MPEG 4 and Ogg.

I am so excited about this It's the part of OBOS that I care most about. It's really nice to hear that it keeps moving. Thanks a lot for your hard work Marcus!

Having recently switched back to BeOS I needed a new client as BeMail can no longer log onto my mail server.

Did you try MDR2?

Seems like a nice BeGeistert, I wish I could have been there. Some of those pictures made me smile.

Bioinformatics, Distributed and Parallel Computing, Grid and Cluster Nodes, WebServices, Nanotechnologies, I.A., CAD, Non Linear Video Editing, ...

Grow up boys... the ex- Be engineers are laughing and Gobe is preparing a serious lawsuit.

...he would have taken more pictures of Karoline Becker She's gorgeous.

Why won't they just honestly address the source/legal issue already? Who would even consider buying a product from a company that displays such evasive and dishonest behaviour? What is Palm's response to all of this? Someone please get to the bottom of this and put these issues to rest finally.

My only hope for beos is better hardware support. I keep trying it and though my hardware isn't the greatest I can't figure out complete support. I even upgraded my sound card for three reasons. I thought soundblaster would be supported, Linux would like the sound blaster card anyway, it's cheap.

I Loved how Beos tied everything together nice a neat. email, Instant Messages, web all together in one easy to use system. No wonder why MS crushed it and beat it using monopoly money.

Give me better hardware support and I am there

Why is it that everyone seems to feel the need to package settings into one giant monolithic app? MacOS is doing it, KDE and Gnome are doing it. Does this have any advantages? I for one prefer lots of tiny apps that start in a split second, over one giant one that takes seconds to load. Also, if all settings are in one application, I have to first start that program and then select which setting I want to change. With tiny applications I immetiately get to the options I want to edit. Big bloated "configuration centers" waste valuable time, IMHO.

First big thanks to Nicholas, who wrote a informational review with really nice pros in hitting some feature details of developped Apps on BeOS/Zeta, which shows th difference on this platform...
There is an app x like on Windows or whatsoever, but it gots the nifty features that makes it unique ;-)

The Development of Zeta in deed is going slow but what we saw on BG12 is that the existing version of YellowTAB is in deed much further developped than the sold version (RC2).

YT is on a turnpoint in the development stage of ZetaOS.

Sure, they got really neat developers and great ideas - the ZintrO which is shown is really impressive and there are some further surprises on the road (sorry folks for spreading gossip again).

But if they want to make the R1 a true Post BeOS R6 the right way, they need an investor which inject some moderate mount of financial aid to get along with the development in short terms.

The Development is going on; even Be's R5 was nearly outdatend when it became moderately known. A 10 - 15 mad developer gang is really impressive, but they have to speed up their fixes, implementations, improve Professionality such hardly needed branches like PR and Q&A.

Some really important develpments are still unsolved although worked on at Zeta for example like CUPS, Java2, Mono or HW OpenGL.

Of course Zeta Users needn't look for Grid Computing like mentioned above which is just one more silly blurb.

But Video Editing or Server funtionalities for Media Services are key solutions and vital for ZetaOS as well as everyday useability (in which is Zeta quite well in once you started fiddling).

That brings me to the final point to hint:
without Companies signing in for development in Software or Drivers for Hardware or Support for Internet Technology, yT would be on the same position like Be was in 1998: developping a great OS but no industrial support.

Of course I don't believe yT will do the same bad decision series like Be did after the BeOS train just got started rolling with companies like Maxon, Steinberg or Bias (in just telling the Companies "Folks, PC's are dead - Smart Devices are the future, BeOS is out BeIA is in, thanks for your help & support! P.S. for the distributors: we bring out a free beer version within the next week!")

So the solution is simple:
Want a supported driver for BeOS/ ZetaOS of your hardware?
Nag the companies who sell their Products to you!

Want a Software Suite ported for BeOS/ ZetaOS?
Nag the Software Company!

Regards

"and Gobe is preparing a serious lawsuit."

That makes me laugh. Please consider getting information from yT's LLC before bloaking around.

The Settlement is completely reverse.

Howdy,
The author mentioned that he had gone back to a laptop running BeOS. I am thinking that a laptop capable of running BeOS fairly well ought to be reasonable by now. Are there any laptop users of BeOS here who can comment? I am thinking of something like a ThinkPad 560Z. That is a 300 MHz P2 with 128 meg of ram and they go for about $150. I might need something else because I need a laptop with a supported video chip, but I would get something cheap like that.
Good day,

I'm glad to see that some people still have the spirit of Be, but it's kind of a shame that most of the pictures are of guys staring at their laptops . . . I went to Linux Fest Northwest, and even though it was the same size, there was a lot more activity. The only guys who sat around like that were the ones at the Debian booth and the BSD advocacy booth.

"the BSD advocacy booth."

There was a BSD advocacy booth, and the people were just sitting there staring at their computer screens?? I take it they weren't doing much advocating...

Palmsource is such a deadbeat company. They buy BeOS and kill it. I read titbits of them using BeOS codes in PalmOS 6, C'mmon it does not take for you to be genius to figure out that a PC OS would be a mistake for a Pocket Device. Its been more than 5 years, if BeOS technologies may have been used for POS POS wouldn't be a lame operating system as it is now. Why won't Palm just release BEOS as a Opensource project like StarOffice. Not only will BEOS remain alive as a PC OS but I guess Palm could be benifitted too. I mean they can open BEOS source Code in Variety of Formats. Its the way to go these days. Real - Helix, Sun - Star Office, Apple - Darwin, Netscape - Mozilla, and maybe Solaris Soon.

What has been more than 5 years? It wasn't that long ago that Palm bought the IP that's what you are trying to say.

I don't really see how Palm would benefit from opensourcing BeOS unless they want to make a distro themselves.

There was a BSD advocacy booth, and the people were just sitting there staring at their computer screens?? I take it they weren't doing much advocating...

"BSD is much more secure to stare at"

Just this one thing: if yellowtab REALLY has all the sources and the right to modify them, then it's a shame that Bernd owns these, not Phipps. If that's true, OpenBeOS team could've done SO MUCH MORE with it by now than Zeta did.

Whereabout at Bebits (or somewhere else) would I go to find out about support for external modems? I have a dreaded Winmodem in my box and am not sure I want to try out the experimental configuration tool.

http://www.blachford.info/computer/begeistert012/S_IMG_3471.jpg

ShareReactor? Lol.

"There was a BSD advocacy booth, and the people were just sitting there staring at their computer screens?? I take it they weren't doing much advocating..."

Nono, it isn't like Krishna or Jehova. You go to them, tell them that you want to know what it is all about. Then they try to convince you how superiour their OS and their license is. Thanks for your time. Smiling, you walk away... knowing better, laughing inside... ;^)

Just this one thing: if yellowtab REALLY has all the sources and the right to modify them, then it's a shame that Bernd owns these, not Phipps. If that's true, OpenBeOS team could've done SO MUCH MORE with it by now than Zeta did.

Not true. It is all about perspective. The OpenBeos team I believe have come along way simply because people want a fully free implementation of the BeOS.

Whereas Zeta currently is not trying to improve the system too much yet. You need good software engineers for that. I think there strategy is to give the OS some really good default applications that will be able to compete with other platforms default applications.

Also Zeta is including a USB stack, and I really don't know what else, because I am not following BeOS that closely? Does OpenBeOS have a USB stack? If they haven't it is all about perspective again. I could post something like USB 1.x has been a standard for a long time now, the Zeta team has done SO MUCH MORE with it by now than OpenBeOS did.

I'm not the right person to ask since I've never used a modem with BeOS (I got broadband in 96). But why are you talking about an external modem when you say that you have a winmodem?
Most winmodems aren't worth the trouble in other OSs. You could try to find a used external modem, it would probably be a lot easier.

Your comment is nothing but a rumour and you obviously have no proof. So please don't put more wood into the fire.

Why won't they just honestly address the source/legal issue already? Who would even consider buying a product from a company that displays such evasive and dishonest behaviour?

Please read caefully what I wrote about their comments on OpenBeOS (which were from Bernd) and especially about NDA's.

Also please note I wrote I can say with absolute certainty. I would not say such a thing unless I meant it.

Did you try MDR2?
No, but Beam seems to work fine.

The author mentioned that he had gone back to a laptop running BeOS.

A big noisy PC actually...

kind of a shame that most of the pictures are of guys staring at their laptops...

I picked the pictures on the basis of being photogenic!
See the links to other peoples pictures, there was plenty of activity!

C'mmon it does not take for you to be genius to figure out that a PC OS would be a mistake for a Pocket Device.

Pocket devices are at most only 5 years behind in terms of CPU power and an OS known for it's low resource usage make a good choice, that said IIRC only parts were used.

Why won't Palm just release BEOS as a Opensource project

Due to licensed parts it would take months to prepare and give them no return whatsoever.
Like most companies however I expect they might change their mind if you were willing to wave a large wad of cash in front of them.

"I can say with absolute certainty that zero of the above rumours are true. They have quite simply no basis in reality whatsoever. They are either false assumptions, malicious gossip or both. I think one might have been true at one point but I'm not sure about that and I know it's not true now."

And your certainty is based on....?

"YellowTab will most likely neither confirm nor deny my comments here but there is a good reason for this. You can pretty much bet there's an NDA been signed somewhere. Business people understand this but many consumers don't get it, having singed a few NDAs myself I fully understand their predicament they must be in."

You know what would be a good way to settle all the rumors (at least in the short term)? Simply say "Sorry, we are under and NDA, and can't reveal any details at the moment." That is, if an NDA is what is causing their silence.

Thanks for the article, it was really fun to read. And especially the 6 pages of pictures with the comments were very interessting.

Please read caefully what I wrote about their comments on OpenBeOS (which were from Bernd) and especially about NDA's.

The same kind of things were said back in the Be days. People with "inside information" who said they knew a lot of things which turned out to be far from the truth.
With all respect, but there's simply no reason that we should believe you since you won't show us any evidence. I've heard Bernd answering the question with three different answers so I frankly don't know what to believe. One thing I do know is that I don't trust that man.

>>You know what would be a good way to settle all the rumors (at least in the short term)? Simply say "Sorry, we are under and NDA, and can't reveal any details at the moment." That is, if an NDA is what is causing their silence.<<
Well said. Plenty of us "consumers" understand perfectly well about NDA's.
Has there been any public response from Palm on the issue?

Considering Zeta and OpenBeOS look like being out in the same time frame, I think Zeta had better have some kick arse apps and improvements for me to be enticed over to it. If not I will pick OpenBeOS. Pretty pathetic communication from the YT hasn't helped Zeta's case.

Ahh BeOS, the OS that could have been.

@Severian
Hi
I've found Compaq laptops are very well behaved with just about any OS from Linux, OS/2, Winders, QNX, Solaris and of course BEOS.
The old Armada 1750 (PII 366) has an ATI graphics chip that is recognised quite happily by B5 - sound is via a standard ISA SB 16 compat. chip so that side is well covered. Only problem is on the PCMCIA front for networking - I don't have any NE2000 cards so have had to rely on modem instead which is a little dull.
On the later models E500 M700 there's a built in Intel compat NIC port which is detected fine by B5 so all systems go but you need the Rage Pro driver from Bebits, or Vesa Accepted to get half decent graphics. Downside is that the Rage Pro driver does tend to flare the display panel when switching on - not sure if it's trying to overdrive it. The Maestro chip is also supported with help from Bebits.
The antialiasing of the fonts does make it a bit hard work on the eyes on a laptop at 1024x768 - 800x600 is a bit easier. Dano allows a/a to be switched off and in that case 1024x768 is OK.
Not *sure* about Presarios but have seen probs with various *ixes on some forums. I do know that Thinkpads are a bit of a pain with alternate OS's - it was bad enough getting them to work with Winders!!! OS/2 - no probs - come to think of it, there's a real operating system

I wish I had the cash to fly to Germany for BeGeistert - looks like another good one (even if to just stare at a laptop, with all those great coders around to ask questions )

On the Zeta issue, well, NDA or no NDA - they're aint winning trust by saying nothing. Still, I wish them the best.

On OBOS, come to WalterCon in June and see whats what for yours

Hey Nicholas, if you needed a Mac with a burner, you could just ask me... I'm the "Mac user" on page 3 :-)
Thank you for the photo, it's one of the best I got in the last years :-)
Anyway, I was working on a BeOS app... power of C++ :-)))

Nicholas doesn't need a Mac or a PC with M$ Windows or Linux anymore. His camera does support(Nicholas didn't know ) the PTP protocol, and with the new PTP plugin for Exposer, he can download his pictures on a BeOs/Zeta PC!! And that on a speed that is much faster than on any other OS . Great speed could be get on Zeta, thx to the driver of Ithamar .

Nicholas, it was a great review of the BeGeistert 12! I was one of the 2 Belgium guys over there. It was the first time we were there and it won't be the last time!

greets
Jixt

P.S: Keep the BeOs-spirit high guys, its a great community, so keep it like this. It will bring more and more developers to the platform

And your certainty is based on....?

With all respect, but there's simply no reason that we should believe you since you won't show us any evidence.

I do not have proof, the YellowTab would not answer direct questions. They also said "revealing all" would at this point be highly counter productive which is why I've been pretty evasive myself in what I've said.

But if you are so sceptical, why not apply the same level of sceptisicm to the rumours. What are they based on? What proof is there for any of them?

Also, what would your explanation be of yT not planning on using major OpenBeOS parts, how can they do this?

Simply say "Sorry, we are under and NDA, and can't reveal any details at the moment."

Some NDAs also require you to not disclose there is an NDA...
However, there are always ways and means and I do think they could say *something*.

"Some NDAs also require you to not disclose there is an NDA..."

What, are they under a government defense contract? Get real. Why would Palm (or whoever) even care? Its not like there is some big secret about BeOS. If they are under an NDA, all they have to do is say so, and simply say "We cannot say anymore at the moment." Instead, they choose to let people speculate.

my understanding that there isn't any actual beos code in os 6, but just ideas such as the new be api that was being worked on, and the mediakit2 framework (apparently you can find header files for it in Dano, IIRC), both of which have been highly modified since the Be days, so it might not be anything like we'd be expecting...

yes you are correct. Cobalt is set to have preemptive multitasking like BeOS and other ideas they got from creating BeOS. There was an interview with the guy on OSNews if you wish to have a search through their archives.

Kelly wrote:
> If they are under an NDA, all they have to do is say so,
> and simply say "We cannot say anymore at the moment."

Quote from "Bernd's Corner" dated October 12, 2003
(http://www.yellowtab.com/column.php)

<quote>
Questions have been raised recently regarding to whether we have access to the sources of BeOS, and to what parts of it. This has recently been the cause for very heated debate and controversy. While we acknowledge that these questions may come as legitimate concerns, answering them would require disclosing the extent of our agreements with some of our business partners. As a commercial entity that we are, we have both legal and business reasons why we cannot disclose as much details as we would like to. The time may come, some day, when we will be able to make public the conditions under which we have made those agreements. Of one thing you can all rest assured: yellowTAB does have secured agreements that make it possible for us to legally develop and bring to market an enhanced version of BeOS in the form of Zeta, as well as evolve it into the future.
</quote>

Is that not enough?

Koki

As best I can tell, it looks like they are side-stepping around the issue, and using very "careful" word choices. They don't once mention that they are specifically under an NDA, just that they have business agreements with unnamed business partners. Also, they never say that they have the source code to actually modify BeOS. Once again, careful choice of wording, they simply say that they "have secured agreements that make it possible for us to legally develop and bring to market an enhanced version of BeOS...". They never mention to what extent they can legally do that. Do they simply have the rights to re-package BeOS with patches and a few apps? Do they have access to old source code? The most recent source code.

I don't really care either way honestly. But for those that do want to keep using BeOS, you might want to think about it.