OSNews

Ah, the usual OSNews-eats-fluffy-puppies-and-kills-babies complaint.

I'm sorry there are negative reports on Leopard. I'm also deeply sorry for putting all those into one single story, together with some very useful hacks and an informative (but obviously biased) review. How dareth I place even the faintest of shadow of a doubt on the greatness that is Apple.

Get over yourself. We did similar round-ups when Vista launched. It's a nice way to group similar stuff together, in one story. If I were to smear all these stories out as individual stories, all the Mac fans would be all over me too. We can never do it right, and honestly, I'm okay with that. Comes with the job.

Mmmm, tasty tasty fluffy puppies.

So an article when every new developer build comes out isn't enough?

Posting several reviews isn't enough?



Every OS bigot always says that OSNews is biased towards other OSes, it's getting (has been) really old.

Off topic:

What would be really nice would be if every article had a big, attention-grabbing button to generate an I-call-bias form letter response from the following template:

IMO, OSNews coverage of [topic] is biased. Most of the linked reviews are [positive | negative], and [author] has a slanted viewpoint that follows up even [negative | positive] articles with opinion pieces [singing-the-praises-of | senselessly-bashing] [topic]. Finally, I see [too-little | too-much] coverage of [related-topic].

(Optional fields could be provided for generating commonly-used personal attacks against the author or life in general.)

And then all these form-generated reponses could be put in a section of the site that is only accessible through a small-text hyperlink at the very bottom of the comments section labeled anti-OSNews attacks or something similarly obvious. Furthermore, the section would be linked to all the other, contradictory form-generated responses so we would see OSNews-is-rabidly-pro-Linux right alongside OSNews-is-just-an-Microsoft-shill.

:D

That's not exactly what I consider to be a conclusive argument. More like a text-book example of observer bias.

Ah, the usual OSNews-eats-fluffy-puppies-and-kills-babies complaint.

You like to say that, don't you?

ok so where is the ars technica review if your so unbiased in your roundup?

Your article links to paul thurrot (sp???) for gods sake... he might have a clue about Windows software but he is the last you should ask advice from for Apple. And yes I listen to his windows weekly podcast and his apple comments on that were STUPID. Add the ars technica link to this roundup or its quite obvious that your just trying to fan the flames against apples OS.

BTW... I dont disagree with this roundup, but if your actually looking for equality like you supposedly did for Vista then missing the ars technica and linking to Windows supersite of ALL people is an obvious stab against it. And I dont care the Ars technica article is just down from this, it wont be in 6 months time.

I've been running Kalyways 10.4.10 for awhile now, and it works great on my HP Pavilion dv9000. Incredably responsive, very stable. Audio/video work great.

Unfortunately, the intel wireless drivers are only about half done for my card, i can manually put it to sleep, but it wont wake up, it is unable to monitor my battery beyond being able to tell if its plugged in or not, the built-in camera doesnt work, and it doesnt detect the lid closing.

All things considered though, I consider these to be minor issues.

Just out of curiosity, how is it support be microsoft? Is it microsoft that support Java or the java comunity/Sun who invest energy in Windows?

Because people are complaining about java6 not on Leopard, but I dont recall any installation of Windows and Linux(which may change with the new license) with java preinstall.

Are the these probleme also with SWT or just with swing?

Tiger got an old (at the time) version of python and wxpython. But Leopard is out of the box with the most recent python, ruby and wxpython.

No, Microsoft does not support [1] Java, but--and here's the crucial point--Sun does. You cannot download the JRE or the JDK for OS X from Sun's website. Apple wanted to develop their Java tools in-house. In fact, Apple has been providing their JRE since the days of Mac OS 8.0. That's why people complain to Apple about OS X's Java, because it's Apple's responsibility.

1. By supporting, I think you mean pre-installation or in-house development at Microsoft. The reality is Microsoft and Sun work together to release the Windows version.

But on the other end, microsoft does not preinstall java the make .net a better alternative. It is no secret that Microsoft tried more than once to harm java.

If Apple stop making java and ask Sun to do so (with their help). Apple could then remove Java from OS X without being hung?

I think you have something a little off here. Microsoft did have an in-house java (the MS JVM), that was considered faster than the Sun JVM (I was not very perceptive of these things at the time, so I don't know how good or bad it actually was). Due to a legal settlement with Sun, Microsoft was forced to remove its own JVM and cease distributing it widely (I think it was still available to enterprises that had systems deployed with it).

As far as I can tell, Sun's concern was that the MS JVM had some extensions that made it easy to call down to the underlying platform. This is basically the idea that became P/Invoke in .NET. Long story short, Microsoft doesn't ship a JVM because the company seems to have made a legal agreement not to.

Edited 2007-10-30 02:19 UTC

Apple wanted to develop their Java tools in-house. In fact, Apple has been providing their JRE since the days of Mac OS 8.0. That's why people complain to Apple about OS X's Java, because it's Apple's responsibility.

they didn't want to take that responsibility, they had to because the halfassed implementation of java 1.0 on mac os by sun sucked and sun wasn't inclined to invest the ressources required to change this.

Thanks for the clarification, Mike. I updated the article to make the complaint a bit more general.

Sorry for the inconvenience.

The real problem here, is that not only did they not ship Java 6 with Leopard, but they broke key parts of Java 5 on Leopard, mostly having to do with Java2D. Java2D happens to be a key part of one of my projects. And currently, it is unusable on Leopard.

Yer. Apple doesn't get backwards compatibility either, even in places where you would think it would be easy to keep.

Just as an update on the Java2D situation, it turns out there is a workaround for this that a few people have pointed out to me. For those of you who are experiencing slow performance problems with Java in Leopard, you can issue the following parameter to to Java when you start it:

-Dapple.awt.graphics.UseQuartz=true

On Java 5 in Tiger, the default rendering pipeline was Quartz. For some reason, however, Apple decided to switch the default rendering pipeline to the standard Java one on Leopard. The standard Java one is not accelerated, and thus the slow performance.

Why Apple decided to change the default pipeline is beyond me. On most other platforms, Java uses the OpenGL pipeline by default. And until now, it used the Quartz pipeline on Apple. But none of the other platforms were still using the plain old unaccelerated Java pipeline anymore.

You can read more about the Quartz pipeline switch here: http://weblogs.java.net/blog/fabriziogiudici/archive/2007/10/leopar...

Well this is an interesting little moderating war that's been going on with this comment of mine! At first it was voted down to 1 and then someone popped it back up to 2, now its been voted down all the way to 0! Still as amusing as it all is, could one of the people modding my comment down kindly leave a POST about why it is they feel the need to mod me down?

According to the vot confirmation page you are only allowed to vote a comment down under the following conditions:

Yes, this comment includes personal attacks/offensive language

Yes, this comment is off-topic

Yes, this comment is spam or includes advertisements

Could someone kindly tell me which of the three my previous comment violated?

--bornagainpenguin

WHICH IS FALSE! JUST REPARTITION YOUR DRIVE STUPID!

This is just classic. Completely defeat the purpose of a backup by enabling it on the same drive. Oh god.

For example, he says that both Vista and Leopard were late but from his wording, it sounds like vista was a about month later than Leopard. Yup, 4 years is only a bit more than 3 months. Bravo Paul, Bravo.

I believe based on officially announced release dates, Vista was no more late than Leopard was.

It won't protect against hardware failure, but it will keep track of previous versions, so it's still very useful if your drive doesn't die.

True, the '03, 04 and 05 release dates weren't formally announced but how about this? http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/2004/aug04/08-27target2006...

Still an year late.

Time Machine Has 2 Purposes. one is back up for an emergency failure and the other is to recover lost files and revert to older versions of files. For hard drive failure, your point is valid. But if you just want to recover lost files and old versions, backing up onto the same hard drive is fine. If he wants a failure backup, why is he complaining about needing an external drive?

I'm not saying Leopard is perfect (there are still many areas where improvement is possible/needed) but many of Paul Thurrot's points are quite weak. After all, he runs the windows supersite. He ought to be biased towards windows just like a mac fan will be biased towards macs.

Edited 2007-10-30 00:23

Yeah. It says they will "target", not release.

W/E if you go into detail. But if you want to continue this (useless) discussion, Apple never officially announced a specific release date, they just said Spring 2007 which is a target which you say does not count. Therefore, Leopard's official, planned release date was October 26th which they did meet and therefore it was on time. I know this is stupid but it is logical if target's don't count.

>>WHICH IS FALSE! JUST REPARTITION YOUR DRIVE STUPID!
>>
>This is just classic. Completely defeat the purpose of a backup by >enabling it on the same drive. Oh god.

not really

>> For example, he says that both Vista and Leopard were late but
>> from his wording, it sounds like vista was a about month later than
>> Leopard. Yup, 4 years is only a bit more than 3 months. Bravo Paul,
>> Bravo.

>I believe based on officially announced release dates, Vista was no
>more late than Leopard was.

HAHAHA that is funny ))) I wish MS learns to ship there products when they say they will. Not delaying them for YEARS. Lets see when will they ship Windows 7 from the officially announced (2-2.5 years after Vista ships) and we are already half way there and there is nothing yet out and there wont be until who knows when. Dream on bro.... But that is very funny what you wrote! ))))))

"For example, he says that both Vista and Leopard were late but from his wording, it sounds like vista was a about month later than Leopard. Yup, 4 years is only a bit more than 3 months. Bravo Paul, Bravo. "

Leopard was slated to be released before Vista, it's not really that important but it is entertaining seeing Karma bite Steve Jobs in the ass.

"Next he compares Time Machine to some odd-ball, unrelated, obscure server backup thing. WTF? He also says it requires an external drive WHICH IS FALSE! JUST REPARTITION YOUR DRIVE STUPID! He also says it will take hours and hours to pick the correct version of a file by using a much quicker date picker. Great, I guess you are unable to read dates and use Quick Look, Paul. "

Time Machine is nothing but a gimmick. It's a feature that's existed in Windows since the 2003 Server iteration, and is definitely included in Vista.

"How about Vista's 11,000 new features? Give me a list. I bet you'll have a hard time finding more than 500 after 5 years unless you count each pixel in the windows logo a new feature. "

Considering that apple.com names things like "Zoom in on iDVD" as a feature, it shouldn't be too hard to find 500 features.

Hell, I'd bet I can twist words around and get 300 new features out of Windows Vista SP1 alone.

"How about spotlight being copied from windows? Searching for files has been out for ages, the only new feature vista added was a method to slowly search the start menu and to make searches painfully slow. "

Longhorn showed off instant search at a PDC before it was even introduced into OSX. It's sort of hard to take you seriously when you tack on stupidity to the end of every one of your statements.

"Longhorn showed off instant search at a PDC before it was even introduced into OSX."

Actually, indexing the drive has been around a lot longer than that. Can you say "Magellan"? And it came on 5 1/4" floppy disks. :-)

But it was probably around before that as well.

Having been burned by backups on the same disk (when the physical disk fails... kaput! Never mind that the backups actually weren't being done and no one was told...) While it can be done, backing up onto the same drive only guards against software failure.

You want a backup in another physical device. Really, you do. Maybe even in another computer. In another room. In another building. On the moon.

I'd recommend that you read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Features_new_to_Windows_Vista
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technical_features_new_to_Windows_Vist...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Security_and_safety_features_new_to_Wi...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Vista_networking_technologies
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Vista_I/O_technologies
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Management_features_new_to_Windows_Vis...
and corresponding main articles. You'll get your features.

Edited 2007-10-30 09:57

Unfortunately, to reach the 300 new features for OS X, Apple had to do just that, among their 300 new features:
- A link to Google Maps
- Boot Camp adds SEVEN features of the 300 (Boot Camp, Boot Camp Assist, the drivers, copying files, keyboard support, and a taskbar shortcut are among the new Leopard features, Microsoft would have just listed "Boot Camp" as the new feature
- Apple specifically lists "New Look" as a new feature for Safari
- 14 of the new features on the list are for adding new langauges, which takes up to 3 new features each (X spell check, X support in dictionary, X localization support)
- Apparently "Printer Support" is a new feature in Leopard
- Safari's list (13 features) is mostly talking about the addition of DnD support for tabs, same for Terminal (same exact new feature)
- 6 new screensavers, errm, features were added
- Spaces adds 5 features
- Empty Trash Button is a very impressive feature
- Time Machine is 11 features

I could go on, but as you can see, if Microsoft measured features like that ("New Look", 8 different new features for each application where they added tab DnD support, 3 features for each language it supports, and stuff like "Printer Support" as new features, you can get to whatever number you want pretty quickly.

I mentioned over 60 of Leopard's new features in this post.

Edited 2007-10-30 16:19

>if Microsoft measured features like that ("New Look", 8 different new
>features for each application where they added tab DnD support, 3
>features for each language it supports, and stuff like "Printer Support" as
>new features, you can get to whatever number you want pretty quickly.

Well why MS doesn't measure features like that? They are free to. I dont think anyone will mind or have a problem with that whatsoever. So your post is kind of pointless my friend I have to say.

To help you get it, the problem people have is there product "Vista" is slowwwwwwwwww as hell and annoying like having food stuck between your teeth that you cant get out. Constantly gets in your way of doing things, lowers the productivity and demoralizes people emotionally by frustrating the user.

For Microsoft to be great, again, they will have to STOP releasing new features for then next 10 years and just work on improving/revising the existing functionality to the point it is perfect again and usable by human beings.

This isn't about Vista. This is about the deceptive, lying marketing practices that Apple is doing, showing they are MORE dishonest then Microsoft.

Come on, if Microsoft came out with a feature list like this with Vista, Apple and others would have been running all over it pointing out how all the new features are just restating the same one 100 times. The fact is, the article is right, this isn't a real major release of OS X. Beyond what the article said, it really doesn't have a lot of new features, and none of the new features are really impressive and make switching to Mac worthwhile over the previous releases. The vast majority of new features in this release are rather small and not very impressive. The most impressive features is Spaces, which linux has provided for years and is readily available on windows.

Am I missing something here? What deceptive practices are you talking about I mean you aren't surely saying that MS doesn't engage in such tactic right?

If you think Spaces is the most impressive feature you are either intellectually dishonest or simply not reading about the other features.

What, the complaints that JOptionPane respects the Aqua UI guidelines instead of the Swing guidelines by showing the application icon instead of some foreign Swing icon is a bad thing? Really? I thought everyone wanted to make Java look as native as possible?

As for Java being released late, look at how Apple has historically released Java. http://stuffthathappens.com/blog/2007/10/28/os-x-java-definitive-ti... . Java 6 will come in a month or two and may be pushed out via software update.

Java is just fine on the Mac. In fact of all the Java implementation out there, it's the one that looks and feels the most native. I'm actually using Netbeans on OS X instead of Eclipse while I can't stand how Netbeans looks and performs on Linux. Says a lot about how Java feels on OS X to me.

Is Java on OS X perfect? No. Then again Java isn't perfect on any platform. This thread on Javalobby is just a bunch of people giving a knee jerk reaction to Leopard, pointing the finger at "Apple arrogance" etc.

This sounds like a lack of support for these features from the ATI Radeon 9200 graphics chip in your Mac Mini. It's probably somewhat the same thing that makes it unable to display that hideous 'ripple effect' when adding widgets to your Dashboard ...

And since it's probably a lack of hardware support, you're never gonna see the effects in question on your Mac Mini ...

Umm what are you talking about? Java 6 has been out for a long time for other platforms how is it not mature?

well, for java, lets hope so. but Java 6 already had 3 updates in other three major platforms, so it would be no so fair to call it "buggy and problematic". what apple really did wrong was not to give any explanations about it. there is a big java developer crowd using macs and this attitu