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They put some GNU software on it, from what I understand.
Hence the name

Anyway, the fact that Haiku is still alpha is the reason I haven't moved forward with my own distribution, and I believe most of the future distro-makers think that way.

Well, duh - Haiku comes with GNU software (hello: bash!)

But anyway, that doesn't mean it has to be named GNU/Haiku - that's really quite annoying as there's no requirement that it do so. (last I checked, the GPL didn't require that the use of GNU software be specified in the product name).

I'm a little disappointed in this "first distro" - I think it's slightly in bad taste, but I'll reserve my judgment as this is really just my opinion.

I'm a little disappointed in this "first distro" - I think it's slightly in bad taste, but I'll reserve my judgment as this is really just my opinion.

I thought exactly the same the moment i read the news and saw first screenshots.

Not only it's IMHO too early, but also putting GNU in the name and Penguin as logo/wallpaper is... well... not what i'd like to see.

BTW "Pingwinek" means "Small penguin" in Polish language, so it can have double meaning (one which is kinda offensive).

OTOH, he cannot call it Haiku if I remember correctly. Yet again, hit's not the best chosen name - especially not considering some of the (granted, very few) anti-GPL zealots one can find in the Haiku forums - I must admit my toes curled a bit in horror from seeing the name

However - looking at the website it's not difficult to understand why the name is GNU/Haiku.

How many percent of the software coming with this distro would you subject to be GNU software?

How many percent of the software coming with this distro would you subject to be GNU software?

Oh, i started by responding to what Haiku comes with, but then I realized this guy added a bunch of software (for no apparent reason) - so I wouldn't know.

Edited 2007-03-12 21:53

Heh.. Linux isnt ready for a 1.0 release either, that hasn't stopped them

Yeah, sure - that's the reason why Linux is being used in mission critical environments, as embedded system, as real time system etc. p.p. Wake up, kiddie

Yeah, sure - that's the reason why Linux is being used in mission critical environments, as embedded system, as real time system etc. p.p. Wake up, kiddie

Who cares? Linux does stuff. Windows does stuff. Big deal. That's their space. There's is no point in Haiku getting sucked in or rolled over by that. The core people seem content with saving a proper market rollout until it's finished. Good. It sure beats broken crap, elitism, and squabbling.

Edited 2007-03-13 21:53

The OP said that "Linux isnt ready for a 1.0 release either, that hasn't stopped them". And that's crap. My comment referred to that. I don't compare Linux to Haiku (I cannot compare a fully functional, proven system to an alpha release).

Not really. This guy/team aims to provide a usable free operating system. He just decided to use parts from the Linux, Haiku and GNU projects to achieve his vision.

Edited 2007-03-13 00:09

Not really. This guy/team aims to provide a usable free operating system. He just decided to use parts from the Linux, Haiku and GNU projects to achieve his vision.

Then he should call it something else, not bleed off either the GNU or Haiku names. Not only is it rude it's theft and confuses the minds of potential customers which, in Haiku's case, I hope isn't just developers scratching an itch but real customers who just want to get stuff done.

Edited 2007-03-13 01:06

It is not theft. It could be considered rude (with the goals of Haiku in mind), but even that could be argued not to be true.

Confusing OTHO - I'll grant you that. But puhlease forget about "theft" - there is absolutely no theft here. Actually the Haiku-based system is not called GNU/Haiku. It is called Pingwinek GNU/Haiku and the Linux-based version is called Pingwinek GNU/Linux.

"It could be considered rude (with the goals of Haiku in mind)"

And it could be considered trademark infringement.
Other than that though, people can bitch and moan all they want because pingwinek can do whatever the hell he want with the Haiku code within the limitations of the license and creating an immature distro isn't a violation.

Let me know when the video's available (either via email or via our submission system) and we'll post it, obviously .

it's nice to try to involve us (the demoscene) into haiku <3
but it will be difficult at least there's no support for quite advanced graphics (no, mesa isn't enough :/) or the interest in finding an accelerated way for the system (a vista-like graphical subsystem and app-server on top -not the looks!- i'd say). and some time ago i didn't succeed to convince mr phipps (i can see his reasons tho').

It wasn't necessarily only for the demoscene.
Plus I was invited there, so.
As for accelerated 3D, well, we do have some drivers already, even if not finished. Rudolf stopped developping them, still I heard some linux folks contacted him asking for info, so it seems he was a bit ahead there

ok, so i should send my <3s to willbe and/or guys at adan for inviting you i guess

ps: i know about the status of the drivers, and i had contacted mphipps to know his opinion and arguments on the impact of such a change, offering to do it mostly myself. while i think it's still awfully important to plan it, i agree with his points on not being important for R1 goal and in maybe being a too big 'investment' atm. if i'm loosing something, feel free to bash me

edited for ps

Edited 2007-03-14 00:24

Polish remarkable distros:
- KateOS -- a new project, GNU/Linux desktop system, review: http://polishlinux.org/linux/kateos/kateos-live-32-beta-a-lightweig...
- PLD Linux -- old one, for servers mostly, lots of innovative features but they suck at marketing, short description: http://polishlinux.org/linux/pld/
- Aurox Linux -- a Fedora-based Linux distro, currentky targetted on Eastern European market and Germany
- Lintrack -- a Linux distribution for routers and for ISP providers, here's review: http://polishlinux.org/linux/lintrack/lintrack-linux-for-isp/

Have I missed something?
michuk

PS. Yes, I'm Polish

Yes, there is some interesting projects comming from Poland. It's amazing how often I download some new app, test it and look into credits, just to find out that main developer is some guy from Poland. I think we're going to catch our western neighbours from Germany soon (while they still rule in KDE community ).

GPL = GNU Public License.

I think you meant, "GPL software != FSF software!".

That's hairsplitting, The GNU Public License is just a license and the FSF created it for its GNU project but that doesn't imply that GPL licensed software is somehow part of the GNU project. Neither does the absence of the GPL somehow imply that software is not part of the GNU project as is evident in the MIT licensed ncurses library.

But overall, yes you are right, I mean GPL software != FSF software, I just don't usually distinguish between FSF and the GNU project.

GPL = General Public License != GNU software

This may help to clarify:

http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/categories.html

"He can name his distribution whatever he wants"

Actually he can't since "Haiku" is a trademark.

I had hoped the coming of haiku would be the end of my distro hopping!

Hopping is a choice. Once you stop, you will find peace in one distro of choice.

Hang on, that doesn't scan.

try:

Hopping is a choice
When you stop, you discover
Peace in one distro.

;-)

Hang on, that doesn't scan.

What do you expect from a longtime GNU/Linux user? Japanese poetry and BeOS systems are not really on the radar, although it is nice knowing Haiku is around.

GNU/Linux users are better at multi level recursive acronyms than haikus

Zeta is Zeta, and Linux is Linux. I can't stand either of them but won't get in the way of the choices they make. I want to focus on seeing Haiku succeed, and that won't happen if people are allowed to get away with ripping it off or trying to hijack it.

Using the Haiku trademark could be a problem, but using code with an "open" license to make a distribution is one of the better qualities of FOSS.

It could be that GNU/Haiku is a monstrosity (I don't think it is, but this aside), but the licensing allows it. If it wasn't the intention of the Haiku project to produce freely usable code, they would have gone proprietary.

Microsoft entered into a licensing agreement with Sun, which prohibited MS to deviate from the Java specs. They deviated anyway and got slapped with a lawsuit. Totally different from Haiku.

There is nothing in the licensing of Haiku that forces developers to use the source code only for addition to Haiku. Maybe it diminishes the "leetness" in the eyes of the purists, but to others it might deliver something of use.

Well, it's like OpenGL and Mesa, or Java and J++. I want to see Haiku remain Haiku, not be tarnished or hijacked. If people want to open or close, strip back or bundle, that's fine. I just have an issue with Haiku as a standard being screwed with. Call your product what you like but not Haiku, unless Haiku allow you on their terms.

I don't really get your drift. Is it the usage of the name or is it the use of the source you object against?

Haiku is not a standard in any way right now. Using the core of Haiku is not screwing the main project in any way. The brain dead addition of GNU/ in front of Haiku makes it absolutely clear this is not the official project. So there is no hijacking or tarnishing taking place.

I can understand it is a little disappointing to see a first Haiku-based distro appear, whipped together by some penguin heads, which in a way will always diminish the impact of the first official Haiku release.

The Haiku team could have avoided this though. They had enough material to release a pre-alpha developer version and truly be first. On the other hand, Haiku wants to reach parity with BeOS and a pre-alpha wouldn't be up to snuff under any condition.

Haiku is not a standard in any way right now. Using the core of Haiku is not screwing the main project in any way. The brain dead addition of GNU/ in front of Haiku makes it absolutely clear this is not the official project. So there is no hijacking or tarnishing taking place.

This is simple. Haiku is Haiku. GNU/Haiku, or anything else, like Sun Haiku or Fluffy Bouncy Haiku, hijacks the Haiku trademark and steamrollers over Haiku as a seperate identity. If Zeta want to rip off the source, or the Linux crowd want to mangle it with their agenda, go right ahead. Just don't play funny with Haiku. That's it.

Haiku exists as a standard to itself. I don't want to see that screwed up by people who want to lock it down or mangle it get the upper hand. Stuff that wants to build on Haiku and use its name should do it on Haiku's terms, which might enforce defaults, binary compatibility, and all that jazz. Doing this helps avoid proprietory standards and fragmentation.

Right on, I don't like this at all.

Edited 2007-03-12 22:50

This is interesting what are you writing my friend. Do you have a registered trademark in Europe or actually in Poland(development country) and France(hosting). If not I can't see any Trademark infingement my darling.
Besides, who is trying to rip or hijack your work or trademark. Think my friend. This is the way to success. Stop trying to become an Apple, Microsoft or Sun...

I don't know what is causing it, but once again, I get nothing except the Haiku Boot menu. It says "Boot from CD or Hard Disk", but "Continue Booting" is greyed out! If I click on the "Boot from..." option, all I get is the Haiku option... that would be the Haiku already on my hard drive. Attempting to boot from that point results in an error message and then a blank blue desktop. Wheee!

I am not booting from the CD... I *CAN'T* boot from the CD. I am wasting CD-R's all because someone can't get their blasted act together and create a working Boot CD of Haiku that will work on my system!

Oh, and by the way, ANY revision of Haiku I download from SVN and Jam (compile), boots/works perfectly on my system. So, dun nobody tell me my system is incompatible.

So, one more wasted CD-R. *sigh* Anyone want to help me figure out how to get my copy of "GNU Haiku Ah-choo!" (it's nothing to *sneeze* at... really!) working on my Athlon XP 2000+ system that works *perfectly* with Haiku otherwise?

"So, one more wasted CD-R. *sigh* "

Ever heard of CD-RW?

Anyway, to the unfortunate topic at hand. Haiku does have a trademark on the Haiku name. They could decide to enforce it or not. It is their choice. Will they? One can't say. Likewise, one is not able to create names off of the word Haiku (such as Haikudos or GNU/Haiku) without a trademark holder's permission. If you don't believe me, try starting Apple Linux and see how quickly you get a letter from a lawyer.

I may be wrong (I'm not a lawyer), but I have a feeling that if a trademark owner doesn't defend their trademark within a certain time-frame, then that trademark ceases to be a trademark (the trademark owner loses their rights to the trademark).

"I don't see whats wrong with a full gnu userland w/ the Haiku kernel"

Note that this distro is not a full gnu userland with the haiku kernel.
Haiku isn't a kernel. It's a full featured OS, that's why distros aren't absolutely needed, unlike in the linux world.

*We* are complaining because it's *our* toes he's stepping on. If you don't feel anything it's because he's not stepping on yours. Does the fact that you feel nothing negate our feeling of hurt?

(I don't want to overstate this feeling, we risk loosing face, but I think it's clear that Pingwinek struck a disharmonic chord with the BeOS/Zeta/Haiku community.)

The "GNU/" naming error, the Penguin-theme, and the premature Haiku distromaking are clear indicators, to me, that the maker of "GNU/Haiku" is not part of the BeOS/Zeta/Haiku community and doesn't understand our feelings on these "soft" issues.

FWIW, I have given at least some constructive criticism. I've suggested two alternative names, Laika and Haidi, in this thread:
http://haiku-os.org/community/forum/pingwinek_gnu_haiku_haiku_distr...

It's fine if you want to put all of GNU on top of Haiku's kernel. We (post-BeOS people, etc) prefer to keep the GPL parts as few as possible. Many of us would stay away from a GPL:ized Haiku and would cringe if a -true- GNU/Haiku was created. One with all of GNU and the X window system, and without the BeOS APIs and daemons.

Haiku isn't a "Darwin". It's a full "MacOS X", which includes a lot of open-source software, but the whole is so much more.

Why have it open source then? If the concern is people rolling their own then close the source down and do it internally. And I would care to imagine that not all post-BeOS people are so repelled by the gpl, im not. It did power a good deal of BeOS's command line.

"Does the fact that you feel nothing negate our feeling of hurt? "
What hurt? Someone was well within his rights to create something, and he did. Why not imbrace the fact people are doing what they should with open source, tinkering, creating, changing. And I don't feel nothing, im excited. The more usage the better. The more tinkering the better. I would like a day when I can run Haiku w/ and run my linux apps side by side. Nothing is wrong with that. The design of BeOS is unsurpassed, and if the Haiku project can duplicate and improve on it, then there is nothing but good things that can come from it.

Personally for me, whereas I loved BeOS, I never really liked most of the apps. A lot of things were shareware and such, some good open source, but not enough. NIH(not invented here) syndrome won't help Haiku gain acceptance in the market.

I don't mind anyone using the Haiku -source-. I don't mind if companies "steal" it and never give anything back, the source is still right here with the same license as ever. I also don't mind too much if people make bad derivates as long as it doesn't make us look bad too. In the end it's the people who work the hardest who get to decide what the future holds. That's usually the coders and not the distro makers. Anyone can make a distro.

The open-source freedom doesn't take away my right to have an opinion about the derivates, and Pingwinek's GNU/Haiku is the first, or the second, if you count Cosmoe's use of parts of Haiku.

Making a penguin-distro out of Haiku is pure debasing, confusing and right now very much premature. Just because it's allowed doesn't make it a good idea.

Big applications designed for multiple platforms is one thing, but adding the necessary system glue to make all of the popular Linux applications run on Haiku would be like trying to fit the Eiffel Tower on top of the Statue of Liberty. It would be one big mess. Sometimes less is more.

Open Sourcing the OS is for a reason, to help it get finished quicker. Look at Linux & the success it has had because it is an open source project. Close source would mean slower development (& fewer developers/contributors).

The source is there & people are free to make their own distro. I have no issue with that, but there should be a few guidelines.


What bothers me:
1. Uses Penguin background. I always associate this with Linux distros. So, this had me confused. Needs something that is not a Penguin (or bird). A Tree would go good with Haiku.
2. Should state ALPHA CODE on the background so people know it isn't stable.
3. Using GNU/Haiku in the name. You don't see Linux distros doing this. Linux distros all have unique names (ie: Arch, Mandriva, Suse, Ubuntu, etc.). Haiku should be used to refer to or define the OS type (ie: another Haiku distro; just like Linux is used to say Debian is another Linux distro). What happens if you have 50 distros with Haiku somewhere in the name? (ie: Haiku XXXXX OR XXXXX Haiku). It would be confusing. Keeping the name unique is important.

In summary, when making a Haiku distro, 1. The message should be clear that Haiku is not Linux (different OSes) - do not use any symbols or graphics associated with Linux, 2. The distro is based off Alpha (Beta, or R1) Haiku code & 3. Not confuse the user by using Haiku in the name (too many distros with the name Haiku in it would confuse me).

Edited 2007-03-13 16:54

GNU software doesn't change Haiku one bit. Even BeOS uses bash, groff, ls etc. Without it you wouldn't have a commandline in BeOS ...

@deb2006 Actually you are able to download testimages from haiku-os - so you are actually able to play with Haiku.