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Actually, apt-get is just a command line tool and synaptic a front-end for that. While apt-get and synaptic are great tools, so is CNR and by being free it's another choice for new (or not so new) linux users. I think choice is always good.

Actually, i think its just another front end to apt-get... since Linspire is based on Debian... if i remember correctly...

That was something that always bothered me, was how they tried to market CNR as something on Linspire was able of doing... almost as if they invented the easy to install package manager (dpkg)

Oh well...

So this was the big announcement (http://wiki.freespire.org/index.php/Main_Page) they got everyone all hyped up about? What a disappointment.

This IS big news to Freespire users. I didn't make the post you were referring to anywhere but on the Freespire site. I certainly don't expect everyone to think this is big news, but to our users it's huge. They can now offer an easy-to-use, turn-key desktop Linux to their non-technical friends at no cost. We think that's a good thing.

CNR really isnt any better then gnome-app-install.

I have to wonder if you've ever even tried it. CNR does a lot of things no other installation system does.

http://wiki.freespire.org/index.php/CNR_Warehouse#How_is_CNR_differ...

Linspire's marketing hype is even worse than Ubuntu's.

If you find a strong, excited, supportive community and lots of users "marketing hype," then I guess you're write about Ubuntu. Just sounds like someone is jealous of them for their success to me. I haven't seen much marketing hype from Ubuntu, just solid work, leading to a lot of users and support.

first signs of a company in trouble is when they start making everything they used to charge for, free.

Yea, it really has been killing Google, MySpace and Craigslist. =)

Linspire is more successful that it's ever been. We had been losing about $10M annually, but that number has now dropped to nearly zero, approaching break even at anytime.

Actually, i think its just another front end to apt-get... since Linspire is based on Debian... if i remember correctly...

Far from it... http://wiki.freespire.org/index.php/CNR_Warehouse#How_is_CNR_differ...

The day my mother starts using Synaptic or apt-get is the day I'll start saying they're the same. =)

I do feel that they have a right to have their own package manager. I think it was a 'recreate the wheel' instead of just improving but whats done is done and let us hope in the future they will consider other options.

We do not have our own package manager. We use .deb, just like apt. What we have is a different way of serving those deb's up. CNR is open sourced, so I'd say that IS improving on an existing system.

Kudos, Kevin Carmony, and the rest of you guys that make Linux accessible to those people who don't have a guru handy to help them!

Thank you.

I've NEVER had a person sit down with me, let me demonstrate Linspire, Freespire, CNR, explain our OEM strategy, etc., and them not walk away feeling very good about what we're doing. Unfortunately, not everyone takes the time to look beyond the FUD. As CEO I do what I can, even posting in forums like OSNew. =)

Kevin Carmony
CEO, Linspire, Inc.

Edited 2006-08-30 18:40

This is what you claimed on your website:
Linspire promised a HUGE announcement this week that will affect the Freespire project significantly. This announcement is bigger than anything we have ever done to date, or perhaps will do for some time to come. This news is significant not just to the Freespire project, but we believe, to the advancement of desktop Linux in general. Visit our forum for the big news and to discuss it with others.
I'm sorry, but i (and i can imagine many others) just don't see the release CNR as OSS as big as you've suggested in your announcement, and yes i've tried it. I also don't like about this that you've posted this mysteriously on the freespire wiki and then left forum users figure out what it was. Thats what i call (excuse the language) attention whoring. Also why do you keep comparing CNR to Synaptic? You KNOW Synaptic is one of the less simple frontends to apt-get and you KNOW that there are much better frontends like for example gnome-app-install.

Ps: dont get me wrong though, i liked that you opensourced CNR (one less piece of proprietary softwarte in the world ), and i like that Linspire contributes back a lot to the OSS community, i just dont like how this announcement was IMO overhyped.

Edited 2006-08-30 18:56

"We do not have our own package manager. We use .deb, just like apt. What we have is a different way of serving those deb's up. CNR is open sourced, so I'd say that IS improving on an existing system. "

.deb is a package format

I consider CNR to be a package manager, similar to other software we consider package managers. Nothing of what I said was negative just a hope that you guys look to improve a project instead of starting a new one.

Nice to see the mod trolls are still with us.

No, CNR is based on apt-get, so it's actually NOT it's own package manager, it's a front-end, like Synaptic. Again, neither Synaptic nor CNR is its own package manager, they're both based on APT. However, CNR makes the selection of packages much more user friendly by fully describing software, including screenshots, and recommending it--a bit like what you find for Windows software on Download.com, but integrated into the OS. That makes it a lot easier for newbie Linux users than any other Linux software-distribution solutions (save Xandros' still non-free solution or the downloading of Autopackages from a project's website).

You can stop twitching now.

No the reason linspire does not want to call it a 'package manager' is because it would be too linux like. They have to call it a 'softare delivery service' so they can be different and better than all those just offering a 'package manager'. That is how they can say it is better than any package manager out there is because it is a software delivery service.

Too funny....

Flock is based on firefox is based on mozilla - does that mean that the only browser is mozilla?

Knoppix is based on debian - does that mean knoppix isn't a distro?

I agree it is a truly a front end. So are a lot of things and we still call them package managers. That is the purpose of that front end of that GUI is to assist you in managing packages.

What are a lot of media players in linux - frontends for gstreamer plugins and various libraries and so forth.

I wasn't the one twitching but I am now.

Interesting to see the Linspire CEO post here.
Now that I have the chance, could I take this opportunity to ask you something?
I have the impression that Linspire is a lot bigger in North America than it is here in Europe (correct me if I'm wrong).
Do you think someday you might be selling complete systems in Europe? It might take a little investing in PR, but I definitely think people are ready for it. Macs are getting more popular, and people start realising there doesn't have to be an OS monopoly on PCs.

Why don't you launch, say, a bright yellow, XGL/Compiz ready Linspire laptop or something, instead of the eternal greyish boredom out there? And instead of the over-2500 dollars Lenovo SLED laptop (Linux is for the rich?). People are looking for something different, and most hardware makers are afraid to offer it to them. I'll be spreading the word here in Rotterdam for you for free. And I even use Gnome.

>I have the impression that Linspire is a lot bigger in North America than it is here in Europe (correct me if I'm wrong).
>Do you think someday you might be selling complete systems in Europe?

Over the last month here in Sweden, Linspire PCs have started to appear at the big retailers such as PCCity and Elgiganten. Those are low price (about $340) Medion computers. They are marketed as "perfect for students".

http://www.elgiganten.se/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/WFS/store-elgiga...

I guess those might be coming to you in Holland soon too.

Over the last month here in Sweden, Linspire PCs have started to appear at the big retailers such as PCCity and Elgiganten. Those are low price (about $340) Medion computers. They are marketed as "perfect for students".
I always knew progress first happens in Scandinavia.
Medion is sold online, and by the Aldi chain here in Holland, Germany, Belgium. Unfortunately, that's a supermarket, selling PCs and maybe even laptops only at radom times, giving Medion a B-brand reputation. These PCs have very noisy fans for example. Haven't seen any Linux on it yet.

Linux + its best distros are generally quality products, that should not be marketed as a cheap alternative to that other OS. It should be marketed as a quality OS for a good price; if it's on retail hardware, it should not be on hot noisy Celerons or something, and priced nicely under Apple, but never dumped Acer style.

I stand corrected my good sir.

First let me say that it's great to see people such as yourself posting on OSNews - good stuff.

Now, I was wondering how you are going to continue to provide the proprietary stuff (like DVD, MP3 Players) on CNR now that you are no longer charging for it?

Edited 2006-08-31 01:24

By charging for the proprietary stuff and also offering the GOLD CNR package for $50 a year.

"you're write about Ubuntu"

right or correct but not "write"

using text to speech software?

(Moderators go ahead and delete this comment if he corrects his spelling)

You've obviously never used CNR.

I am sure they will respond with plenty of heat...I will take another route and simply say this. CNR may not be better, but it could be another choice for those that want it. It is a big announcement for numerous reasons - from linspire finally doing what I consider to be the "right" thing, to something that has for years costed money and is now free, to this becoming a open source program. All of those are fairly remarkable. For those that are not interested then of course it isn't as important but that would be normal in any situation.

It does offer advantages to gnome-app-install as well as IMO some disadvantages. Either way it is as much news as other things we discuss.

To answer your question RTFA.

Now if they would just get rid of the desktop-as-root-by-default garbage, I might start to take this distro somewhat seriously.

Someone needs to get out more. That is some seriously outdated FUD. That went bye bye long ago.

Can someone please get this gentleman some fresh FUD? =)

Kevin

Edited 2006-08-30 18:43

Why not just say that freespire has corrected this situation and it is a priority to make sure that users do not run as root by default and that everything works so that no users would need to run as root. Face it, Linspire has had problems in the past with either running as root and/or things not running correctly without being root.

I think the way you handle stuff like this does nothing but detract from *spire in general. In fact, your denial of problems and spiteful responses to anyone bringing up issues is one of the biggest things that makes me dislike linspire and now freespire.

I guess it is also fud that you have old outdated packages in the CNR warehouse? That some of those packages are considered to be security risks by other distros and yet linspire has determined them to not be a issue.

Edited 2006-08-30 19:12

Well if he didn't then yes I play the card. He calls something fud that I offered a link to the linspire website that specifically indicates it is hard to run as anything but root in linspire. Which would indicate it isn't complete fud and has some merit and basis and I think they should stop trying to sidetrack anyone that brings up problems and just state the issue and how it is being corrected.

They bring a lot of this on themselves is all I am saying and it could easily be corrected yet they let it get the better of them. Adding flames to the flame just makes the flames worse and more fun at the same time!

Kevin, thank you for taking the time to reply. Its wise, and its generous too.

I would. But bandwidth costs time and money. :b

Uh, yeah, RIIIIGGHT. In Linspire, in all versions up to and including the new wonderweapon V2 release, if the user does NOT take any action to create a user, WHAT ARE they running as? Umm, ROOT maybe? Let's see, no other action taken (default), account used (root), sounds like desktop-as-root-by-default to me. Now, Freespire did a marvelous Ubuntu-take on the situation, and makes the first user created an entry in the sudoers file to allow for system maintenance, and the holdovers from Linspire need to be tweaked a bit to get around the bumps.

HEY EGON!
And would a new user KNOW they needed to create a user account in linspire. Nope! So while one could argue semantics, in linspire a new user will end up running as root.

Also the link I posted that a user will be unable to use their scanner unless they are root.

It is a shame that the linspire users want nothing more than to turn freespire back into the run-as-root distro and now they cite that the reason is becasue it is for advanced users.

Shameful really!

Edited 2006-08-30 22:35

"Can someone please get this gentleman some fresh FUD?"

I couldn't agree more. To everybody who feels like him, take a look at kdmrc:

http://docs.kde.org/stable/en/kdebase/kdm/kdm-files.html

Quote:

[AllowRootLogin

If disabled, do not allow root (and any other user with UID = 0) to log in directly.

The default is "true".]

Linspire and Freespire do not currently use kdm, they use something called ldm for Linspire Display Manager, I would think. So, KDMRC entries are non-germane, but ldm gleefully allowing root account login would be.

The default is not used in Linspire. And yes, what you call "FUD" is true. Freespire has gotten rid of desktop-as-root policy, and I congratulate them for that, but Linspire hasn't and that is stupid in the extreme.

Something you probably know already: most malicious software on *nix requires root priveleges to hijack your system. If you are running everything as root, the only advantage left to running Linux is that there's less malware made for it - running the desktop as root is a hazard. "It's a more secure operating system" is not an excuse to use extremely insecure default policies.

And for all you penguin-heads out there: I am not bashing your beloved operating system; I'm a fan of it myself. The people I am bashing are the ones who want to make it like Windows - too damned much like Windows.

- because CNR will only be available to Freespire users later in the year and not NOW . They will need to wait for the OSS version of CNR.

- because even when this future -free- CNR will be available, only people using CNR gold service (50 dollars a year) will receive software update notifications and free OS updates.

Still crippled, dear.

- because CNR will only be available to Freespire users later in the year and not NOW . They will need to wait for the OSS version of CNR.

CNR will be Free in late this year. It's free (as in beer) now.

- because even when this future -free- CNR will be available, only people using CNR gold service (50 dollars a year) will receive software update notifications and free OS updates.

Software updates in Freespire doesn't require CNR Gold. Not even CNR... apt is enough just like in any other debian like. However, besides apt you have the choice of CNR just like in Ubuntu you have the choice of update manager!

Edited 2006-08-31 16:32

Not only it's not the default, as you need to activate root if you want it

http://wiki.freespire.org/index.php/Creating_a_Root_Login_Account

"They also won't get free OS upgrades such as when Linspire 6 is released"

They won't get free LINSPIRE OS upgrade versions but since freespire is free of charge they can certainly have the latest and greatest freespire at no charge.

I would say since the application used to change the file is freakin kwrite there's at least a 75%* chance that user is logged in as root.



*I say 75% because there is a possibility that the user ran 'sudo kwrite', but then wouldn't they just run 'sudoedit /etc/fstab' if they were already at the terminal?

I agree 1000%

The "elitist" users will automatically hate anything that includes proprietary codecs/drivers/programs, and/or hate anything that is easy for the non-geek.

The way I look at it, Linspire is doing all the right things to bring Linux to the masses - the non hobbyist/programmer/professional/sysadmin/geek - by making an extremely easy distro, that works "out of the box" with most hardware, and includes, by user choice (they offer a totally OSS version), all the needed proprietary codecs/drivers/etc.

Plus, I love apt-get, and Synaptic. But, IMHO, CNR exceeds those in ease of use - an easy to browse interface with icons and descriptions of programs, then just one click and the app is intalled and added to a menu, and dependencies resolved. This goes beyond regular apt-get or Synaptic. It's just the sort of thing that would make a Mac or Windows or totally non technical user feel right at home. This is a good thing. Regular apt-get or Synaptic are great, and they're close, but quite as easy as CNR.

And now that Linspire has Freespire, with a free CNR, and the choice of using a totally OSS version (to appease the purists), there is really nothing to complain about with *spire.

And just to add to the usual cliche - I have my 72 yr old Mom using a Linspire PC I helped her get from Fry's. She's using it with the greatest of ease, and it's been easier to her then Windows ever was.

And, even though I'm a programmer by profession and I'm totally at ease with the *nix command line, I greatly prefer ease of use features. I'm a married father of two, and I have little time to spare for fiddling with crap that should work out of the box. *spire, along with some others like PCLinuxOS, Kanotix, Mepis, Ubuntu (to a somewhat lesser extent), and others, deliver the total easy, "out of the box" experience.

For the sake of the whole internet, I hope that the Ubuntu people beat them to it. CNR may be nice but there is no excuse for such blatantly insecure default settings on a desktop-oriented distro, regardless of the targetted user base - in fact, all the more because of the targetted user base, since the average Linspire user probably doesn't know how to secure their system.

I've never really understood the amount of abuse that *spire attracts.

It's the name they started with, Lindows. Deep down, the hardcore Linux fans never forgave and never forgot their betrayal. I mean, emulate a Microsoft brand in order to get people to notice them? That's so... dark side of the force, dude! Seriously uncool.

no no no not bashing new directions - nobody in linux is scared of changes either but BAD directions and BAD changes are just that....BAD!

That's just it. They're NOT trying to appeal to "people like you who like bleeding edge programs." New Linux converts will favor stability over bleeding edge.

But stability and up to date is not mutually exclusive. I think most windows users who see me using the cool new XYZ will want the cool new XYZ app and not last years old ABC app. I know my wife HAS to try anything and everything new that she hears about in her chat groups.

Having OLD stuff doesn't appeal to anyone when others are providing newer stuff that is as stable if not moreso.

Edit button is so cool - thanks for the ability.

Edited 2006-08-30 21:52