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PDF is an open spec, Apple uses PDF as a basis for Quartz rendering without any complaints from Adobe, and Open Office.org has had export to pdf for a while without any complaints.

The whole Microsoft issue was just an attempt to get some money (even though they really didn't have any justification for their complaint) from someone with a large share of the market. It shouldn't affect GTK in the slightest.

This is not a very informed comment: Adobe haven't been very vocal about their concerns (especially wrt assuring media coverage), but they were compliance- and not money extortion-related. That is, since Microsoft are going to deliver a PDF competitor, Adobe started worrying (rightily IMHO) about a possible degrade-and-switch strategy (i.e.: "see how crappy are PDF files you can so easily produce with Office? now go try our revolutionary product!"). Unfortunately I don't have the URL to the only press article reporting Adobe's point of view.

rehdon

Adobe did not threaten Microsoft to remove their PDF-support. It's merely a newspaper-spin.

pdf is an open standard and Adobe will allow anything with pdf as long as you stick to their standard/license. If you do not stick to it you will bring upon yourself a very angry Adobe.

I think this has happened to Microsoft (they have a habit of NOT sticking to standards). Impelement it but not following the standard.

... and support for tray icons, and widgets from libgnomeui.

It's not full release notes, I think.

Looks like OSnews jumped the gun and did a release announcement while there is no official announcement done yet from the GTK Project.

Then what is a) the announcement on the front page, and b) that message in my gnome-announce inbox?

http://live.gnome.org/ProjectRidley
shows a lot of exciting progress, look at the 'commited' ones:
GnomeDruid EggAssistant which means you can use some wizard alike directely in gtk;
GnomeHRef EggLinkButton, you can have a link in the button;
GnomePrint & GnomePrintDialog; these are what the OSNEWS said in this news;
...
I must say you should look at it yourself.

Since it is 2.10 and not 2.9 I think it's stable (except the case when it might be some Release Candidate).

whats so ugly and garish? Are you talking about the theme and icons? Dont you know how to choose a different theme, icon set, and customize your workspace? Some prefer functionality as oppossed to bright and shiny.

How about one of these then:
http://gentoo-wiki.com/Image:Gnome-shoeseal-0.png
http://gentoo-wiki.com/Image:GnomeScreenshot-dust.2.png
http://www.lynucs.org/index.php?screen_type=1&screen_id=1354349...

Hey dude, I voted for you....

Linux UI toolkit technology will continue to remain years behind Apple and Microsoft until idiots like you finally get it through your DIMWITTED LITTLE PEA-BRAINS that 'purty' themes are not a substitute for a modern UI toolkit.

Umm...what do you mean with a modern UI toolkit? And could you clarify how it is "years behind"? Have you ever tried GTK+ programming? It is not only rather simple, it is powerful, too. And as far as I know, neither of the Apple or Microsoft has created cross-platform UI toolkits...

Edited 2006-07-03 16:14

And these would be examples of... ?

That's gnome 2.4. It was release in 2003, not "mid-2006".

Duh... me like'um pretty colors.

Your such well thought out highly intelligent comments sure haven't demonstrated any knowledge of the difference between the two.

Let's get some stuff straight here...

1. What you see in that screenshot is the toolkit's theme, not "the toolkit". You can make a hideously ugly theme for a perfectly good graphical toolkit - there are ugly, garish color themes for Windows' GUI toolkit, you know, I've seen them. So yes, it is the theme you're raving about, not the toolkit.

2. The screenshot you link to is hideously outdated and uses a nondefault theme. Current default looks like this, admittedly rather bland but easily changeable:

http://frugalware.org/~laci/screenshots/GNOME-default.png

3. You can't judge an operating system by what it looks like. Until recently Solaris looked like crap courtesy of CDE, and OpenVMS still looks like crap. They are of course both extremely well-programmed and reliable operating systems. And Win2k3's Luna interface looks like garbage but guess what's under the hood?

4. The above all point strong toward your not having a clue what you're talking about. If your knowledge doesn't cover something, I strongly suggest that you don't rant about it, because the people who do have some knowledge of it will have your ass.

5. Your username screams "spammer", and your posts are invariably trollish in nature, resorting to insults rather than logical arguments. You don't seem capable of contributing anything useful to any topic.

I think that now might be a very good time for you to shut up and leave...

Thank you! I mean the guy raves I am talking about icons and themes when I dont know what else a screenshot is suppose to show?

Definately a troll.... not even a good troll. What kind of trolls are we turning out these days that they cant offer some reasonable type of arguement, however made up and poorly supporrted. I blame the troll schools, some blame the troll parents, something is certainly failing the trolls.

Do you have any examples of this? Gtk is a pretty nice framework, although I've only ever used it through pygtk.

well, as i said, its an impression i get after reading a few years about gtk/gnome and qt/kde. i don't code, so i can't judge for myself, if i could, i sure would ;-)

but mostly, i only speak kde/qt minded ppl, so i hear only one side. tough this might turn into a flamewar (sure doesn't seem so, yet), i might learn something...

well, as i said, its an impression i get after reading a few years about gtk/gnome and qt/kde. i don't code, so i can't judge for myself, if i could, i sure would ;-)

Well, if you can't point to a single specific fact that backs up your impression, maybe you should just re-evaluate it?

Edited 2006-07-04 07:37

Qt is a commercial product with more concentrated development than GTK imho.

I don't think GTK+ is "insanely behind". Sure, it might lack things that Qt does, but they are developed with different goals in mind, and taking into account that Qt is a commercial product while GTK+ is mostly being developed by people in their free time, it is not a wonder that they are not equal in features. I have no experience whatsoever regarding programming with Qt, nor do I know much about the features it includes, but I have been using GTK+ for some small personal projects. I think it has quite a lot of carefully thought-out features, and everything is rather simple to do. And the GTK+ folks are constantly adding new features or improving old ones, so I don't really see it as inferior compared to Qt.

I think Gtk has a more conservative goal set than QT. But I wouldn't be surprised if they were a little behind.
However, I've always found Gtk to be plenty and I've used winforms with vb back in the day, and swing, and of course a little tk. I like Gtk better.

Sometimes I look at things in Gtk and wish they had a less advanced frontend cause they're complex to get started using: GtkTreeView+GtkTreeStore for example.

But having not developed QT some examples would be helpful.

Libsexy (http://www.chipx86.com/wiki/Libsexy) has allowed you to do this for a while, amongst other things. Admitadly it's not a well known library, but it's there all the same.

I've heard of it. I might use it, if it gets included in gtk. I'm very very slow to add dependencies.